Purim must be right around the corner again, as Budapest’s mayor-for-life Gábor Demszky warned about the return of the Arrow Cross, Hungary’s very own special homegrown fascists, a compiled report over at Index.hu stated. Speaking on the 63rd anniversary of Budapest’s liberation from the Nazis, (which incidentally coincides with the beginning of the Soviet occupation), Demszky stated that while modern day fascists number only around a few thousand, that if steps aren’t taken to stop them, they will continue to grow, repeating the government’s crying wolf routine yet again. This, however, marks something of a reduction in forces on the part of the fascists, who according to the government were about to run over the country a year ago. At the current rate of downsizing threats to Hungarian democracy, the biggest threat to the nation next year will be the Transylvanian Tyke of Terror™.
Budapest mayor continues governmental crying wolf over fascist threat
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Though personally I do not agree with their homegrown fascist philosophy, in a democratic system they have the right to express their opinion and as long as no one outside of their organization is being harmed, let them. The bigger problem lies withing the government of Budapest and Demszky’s lack of ability to manage a city. I believe in Budapest and the best thing that can be done for the city is to hire a non-Hungarian manager to put the city on track for a sustainable, prosperous future.
I second that! Bring in somebody from outside of HU to manage things here.
Demszky has actually promised that he will not run for Mayor of Budapest anymore, so he will be history 2010. He will probably wind down as MEP for another 40 years or so.
Istvan Tarlos, independent before the election, but local GruppenFührer for Fidesz after the election, blames his narrow defeat October 1st 2006 on Jobbik’s participation in the storming of the MTV-house.
That anyone else but Tarlos will win 2010, independent or not, is rather slim. The biggest risk to Tarlos is himself.
Jobbik as a political party that wants to be taken seriously, would not have participated in the storming of the television station. That was the work of other far right groups, although it would be fair to say that many of those storming the television station were Jobbik supporters.
But you bring up an interesting point, Viking. Who stood to gain from the storming of the television station? That was the best possible thing that could have happened for Gyurcsány and friends.
Jobbik is not a Party, just a Movement. They concentrate their few kader on Magyar Garda now and with those provocative anti-Gypsie marches they have no intent of being taken seriously. It is their tactic. They want to be and make a difference.
So, you subscribe to “the highest government circles are behind the acts.”?
What proof does “Fidesz MP János Lázár, chairman of the House national defence and law enforcement committee” provide for this statement?
And Fidesz’s Pokorni 18/9 2006?
Viking, that’s not what I said. What I simply asked was who stood to gain from the storming of the television station? If the far right thought this was their moment to makes themselves known, they were right in that sense, but terribly mistaken as to who will benefit from their actions.
What they did deflected attention from the lies speech and allowed the prime minister to start harping on about this vague threat from the far right, allowing him to focus attention away from himself.
I do not know any Police Force in any European Capital that would be able to defend a similar building, without any warning and making preparations.
The Hungarian was totally unprepared in general for bigger riots, they use an old (German?) static tactic with water-cannons, instead of the UK/Danish variant of small highly mobile groups.
23/10 they had prepared, but totally fucked up. Only Fidesz won on that day. Roumours have it that the Commanders later fired where Fidesz-friendlies…
Sorry, 1 more – Jobbik’s main enemy is not Gyurcsány and friends, it is Viktor Orban.
By doing things that the right-of-center Fidesz possible voters think is good (anti-Gypsie/Jew/you-name-it), but is not so good for Orban to be associated with, Jobbik disturbs Orban’s hegemony over those voters. If Jobbik forces Orban to condem Jobbik, Orban will loose votes.
If Orban does not win next election, he is finished and Fidesz will probably split. And who is waiting to pick up one piece?
Well, the police sent to defend the building were untrained officers from the countryside (Baranya County), who were ordered not to use their batons, while about two hundred well-trained local riot police hung out behind the building and didn’t do anything.
But don’t take my word for it, it was then-still government friendly Magyar Hirlap that wrote this: http://www.magyarhirlap.hu/cikk.php?cikk=111717
One can always discuss police tactics, especially afterwards. What happened was that the riot was contained when the rioters were allowed to occupy the MTV-building. I do not know if it was a deliberate tactical move by the Police or just a total breakdown in the Chain of Command. If the rioters had been deflected from the MTV, who knows where they would have gone? To the US Embassy? Suddenly is 200 badly equipped BP riot police not sufficent. It is not easy to know when to use your reserves.
Zoltan – you base your arguments that someone wanted to hurt Gyurcsány by releasing the tape. We still do not know who did it, it is therefore still possible that it was Gyurcsány himself, via proxy.
In September most of the reforms were known as drafts, we all knew it will be hard years to come. Could Gyurcsány trust his MPs? By releasing the speach, he create the polarization of the country and wipped the coalition together.
Maybe Gyurcsány is the smartest Hungarian since Attila the Hun?
Viking, if properly equipped and trained reserves are on the other side of the building, you should bring them in, unless you want the building to be occupied, not as a dispersal tactic, but for the symbolism of Hungary being under attack from the far right.
As you said, the events of September 2006 whipped the coalition together, but it wasn’t the tape that accomplished that, but the politics of fear propagated by the Gyurcsány gov’t, which they keep resorting to all the time.
Maria Wittner, “1956 hero” & Fidesz MP called earlier on Kossuth Ter for a Second Revolution. HirTV in their war-like live coverage called the obvious football hooligans from UjPest and Fradi for “short-haired revolutionaries”.
No one at that time were speaking about “Hungary being under attack from the far right”. That came in the early hours after the occupation was a fact.
Police should in all cases, even when the “criminal” get away/right, try to value life higher than property.
Of course life is more valuable than property, but if the police do their job then, the riots a month later are either far smaller or don’t happen at all, and the government’s position is weakened instead of strengthened.
You can’t be serious!
Why not blame the Slovak Police instead for not keeping Toroczkai, instead of expelling him, so he could travel more and less directly to Kossuth Ter. With your logic 1 single event/person make all the difference. The will of the masses is not interesting.
On CNN complained HirTV live over the brutal Police, they broke the arm of 1 rep.
In general people were upset and/or ashamed over their PM, so how much lower could it get?
What would have changed in Parliament?
“With your logic 1 single event/person make all the difference.”
Umm, history has proven that the right/wrong person at the right/wrong time is capable of having an undue amount of influence.
This remains unclear: “On CNN complained HirTV live over the brutal Police, they broke the arm of 1 rep.”
Gyurcsány’s position after the tape came out was weak, also within his own party. After the nuts attacked, his party circled the wagons to defend him, hence the meaningless confidence vote, (different from a no-confidence vote), and later his election to be party chairman where he told them if he didn’t get a certain percentage of support, he’d resign as prime minister.
If things remain peaceful, his party could have come to their own decision that doesn’t appear to be caving in to the right.
No, history learns us that everything is connected. You cannot take one single incident out of its context and say “if that had not happened, then…”. Something else had just happened, with a similar effect.
We had 2-3 more nights of riots in BP. Would they have not happened if the MTV had not been ransacked?
Over 200 Officers were injured during these riots, it was not just a one-thing off.
LAPD made similar descisions during the R King-riots. It kept up to 1000 police on standby 1st day
CNN had Breaking News with the MTV-riots that night and broadcasted a phone-interview with CNN’s local partner HirTV.
The HirTV-reporter spoke about the PMs lies-speech & that many normal people were upset and demonstrating outside the Parliament and the TV-house, demanding to read up a petition.
He stressed that the Police was extremely brutal and even attacked media. HirTV’s own reporter outside had his arm broken by the brutal Police.
This is how CNN broke the news world-wide. Clear?
Basically there are two tangents here, one involving the great man hypothesis, the other causality. If something changes in the timeline, what comes later also changes, hence there is a very real probability that if the storming of the TV station is stopped, the following evenings’ events also stop. If you take away my matches, I can’t set fire to the log, and there is no campfire, but let me have matches and…
The 1992 LA Riots, btw, were very different both in cause and effect.
I know to take anything HirTV says with a grain of salt. That said, if the reporter did indeed say the police were brutal, (I didn’t see this broadcast), the police certainly were by the second night of riots, not to speak of October 23rd.
Up to 200 people listened to Gyurcsány’s speech live in May, including all MSZP MPs. No MP came out before 17/9 and condemned the speech.
It is the MPs who elect the PM, if they wanted to get of rid of him they had close to 4 months to do that.
The MSZP MPs, by their inaction, became tied to Gyurcsány’s fate = The MPs would never vote against their PM.
That SZDSZ would break the coallition due to this speech was never likely.
So who were the MSZP MPs that was thinking of defecting in 2006?
The Free Democrats wouldn’t leave the coalition as the Socialists are the only way the Free Dems will enjoy any power, (apart from Demszky).
Even discounting Gyurcsány’s thinly-veiled threat of blackmail if they move against him that he made toward the end of the speech, what you’ve just demonstrated is why Hungary needs a true party of the left, and not the two who claim to belong there.