July 7th, 2008

Politicians condemn Saturday’s disturbances to the Gay Pride March

Following the disruption of Saturdays’ Gay Pride March, Prime Minister Ferenc Gyurcsány has called for a rally to be held on September 6th to protest extremist sentiments in Hungary. The prime minister has called for a meeting between Hungarian leaders to examine why a few hundred people can terrorize the majority, and to look into what legal means can be used to oppose them.

According to the prime minister, the far-right agitators falsely call upon patriotism, take Hungarian symbols away from the masses, and infringe upon freedom, an MTI piece at fn.hu reports. Gyurcsány continued that what happened on Saturday has been going on for years, that extremists disrupt people’s right to self expression.

The prime minister stated that he has had enough, and if things continue as they do, people will be afraid to go out into the streets. He added that this is not a police, gay, Jewish or Gypsy cause, but one for everyone.

On Sunday, Gyurcsány met with the chief prosecutor and minister of justice, who said that by Thursday they’ll have a report on how the government authorities did their jobs, and will only assess the situation after that. In regards to the Magyar Charta he proposed, the prime minister stated it would not be a left or right thing, but an organization to represent the millions tired of the few thousand extremists causing problems.

In reaction to Saturday’s events, Fidesz parliamentary faction leader Tibor Navracsics denounced hatemongering and violence in every form, and then added that due to the incapacity of the minority government the police weren’t in a position to guarantee the peace.

Zoltán Hock of the Democratic Forum stated that they were deeply upset by Saturday’s disturbances and that violence cannot be justified, before adding that the police should be allowed to do their job without politics coming into it.

Budapest Mayor Gábor Demszky stated that over a million forints worth of damage was caused by the protestors, but even more damage was done to Hungary’s image in the world. While in other cities Gay Pride events go off without a hitch, in Budapest they result in images of violence.

Gergely Bárándy of the Socialist party stated that in September he’ll initiate five party talks on modifying the right to assembly, and that his party still supports banning hate speech.

On Saturday, the Socialists and Free Democrats announced their solidarity with those who were attacked, and Ildikó Lendvai, Socialist parliamentary faction leader stated that the same people who participate in far-right demonstrations were the ones who attacked the march.

Gábor Fodor, Free Democrat party chairman called Saturday’s attacks the disgrace of the nation, and said democracies must always protect the rights of minorities.

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  1. Stan says:

    “Gábor Fodor, Free Democrat party chairman called Saturday’s attacks the disgrace of the nation”.
    I call the Free Democrat party the disgrace of the nation. At least I know what im talking about. Fodor is a clueless dimwit.
    The SZDSZ sponsored, supported an pushed the parade. Probably that’s the only voter base they have left: the sexually confused. Spending taxpayers’ money on propaganda and creating diversions is nothing new. The MSZP and SZDSZ are corrupt to the core and they could not govern their way out of a paper bag. How long will Hungarians put up with these clowns?

  2. Joe says:

    It’s about time! I have seen gay pride parades in Toronto and Montreal and they are great, fun events. The Hungarian extreme right-wing are a disgrace to all Hungarians and all decent people everywhere.
    Organizations like the Magyar Garda should be disbanded! They, not the gay marchers, are a blight to Hungary.
    I was born in Hungary and go back often – with my same-sex partner of 32 years.

  3. Stan says:

    Joe, you’re an idiot.
    The last thing Hungary needs these days is a stupid parade. The march of obscene exhitionists cost the city well over 100 miilion. Not to mention the millions secretly pumped into this retarded diversion by the SZDSZ.
    When the gay society is ready to do something for the country – not against it – then we can talk about acceptance. Until then, go to hell.

  4. Paul says:

    The march of obscene exhitionists cost the city well over 100 miilion
    Where did you pull that figure from Stan?
    Not to mention the millions secretly pumped into this retarded diversion by the SZDSZ.
    No doubt aided by those other enemies of Mother Hungary, the Elders of Zion, eh Stan?
    I’m normally not a man of violence, but in this case, I’m going to make an exception. I’ve come to the sad conclusion that there’s only one form of language these group of fascist misfits, drop-outs and all-round bullying scum understand…and that’s a good kicking in the head (something they know their normal soft targets- the gays, Jews and pot-smokers will never give them) behind the police vans, well out of the sight of Victor TV and their the journos from their sad hate-rags. I’d then follow that by life-sentences, to be serving in a high-security Slovak prision bending over for their Roma cell-mates.

  5. JoeBones says:

    You really are the world’s biggest prick. How dare you speak like that to Joe, he’s just voicing his opinion and has in no way slighted you. You are the idiot for being blinded by your own hate.
    So maybe you can tell me when exactly the homosexual part of Hungarian society acted against the rest of Hungarian society? I think they were just trying to survive and hide from the hatred and intolerance that was directed towards them. Maybe you’re getting them confused with the Arrow Crosses and communist stooges that really did act against their own society and country.
    Or maybe you’re right and homosexuals are in fact a fifth column for the Elders of Zion, Illuminati, Opus Dei and the commie Martians who are hell bent on taking over Hungary. You’re a sad little man Stan, your whole world seems to be full of hate for your fellow humans. Go and get laid or something…

  6. Tourist in Budapest says:

    As a tourist on my way to a museum, I was surprised by the
    riots. I used to think Budapest was more civilized but now I
    think that a very small group of Neo-Nazis are holding back the
    entire city and embarrassing their country on the world stage.
    The police did a fairly good job containing the mob, but should
    have arrested everyone who carried rocks or other harmful
    objects. These people are a menace to civilized society and their
    records need to reflect that. It seemed like an ideal place to
    round up the trouble-makers. It would be an easy way for the
    city to collect fines and alert the families of the trouble-makers
    before they become too deeply entrenched in criminal activities.
    I don’t think the sentiment of the rioters was as anti-gay as the
    papers made it sound. They are just Neo-Nazis looking for any
    excuse to be violent. Only 5% of the skinheads looked like they
    were anti-gay, 10-15% looked like they wanted to hurt anyone,
    particularly the police, and the rest were just sheep, throwing
    rocks and then quickly looking at their friends for approval. It
    was ironic that about half the violence was happening outside of
    the Museum of Terror.
    I applaud the gay people for being courageous enough to keep
    marching for their civil rights. I couldn’t be that brave. The May
    I saw not one street vendor selling food, water, or beer to the
    large crowds gathered in the streets for hours. There are so
    many entrepreneurial opportunities but the Hungarians don’t see

  7. Smarter Than You says:

    Stan, it’s doubtful that anything will educate you, but just off the
    top of my head, here are some ways that gay people have helped
    1. The first computer was invented by Alan Turing who was
    imprisoned for being gay.
    2. Philosophy and math- Socrates, Aristotle, and a number of
    the other Greeks were gay. In his book The Symposium, Plato
    talks about homosexual love as being superior to heterosexual
    3. Art, literature, and music- Michelangelo, Tchaikovsky,  Hans
    Christian Andersen,  Ralph Waldo Emerson, Andy Warhol, Walt
    Whitman. Oscar Wilde, Marcel Proust just to name a few
    What have you done, Stan, to help society?

  8. Stan says:

    You Stan haters have not read the other related article at this site: http://www.politics.hu/20080707/the-symbiotic-relationship-between-hungarys-prime-minister-and-farright#c4. Read it now and don’t forget to follow the link to the Onion piece. Come back when you’re done, see if you understand better what’s going on here.
    Where do I start answering all the hate-messages…
    First: this gay parade was a complete waste of time and money and all. It sure as hell didn’t make gays any more popular. It did cost a lot of money for the taxpayers (the 100 million figure is from the police, damages and cleanup, etc. not included). The SZDSZ participation is a not very well kept secret, it’s admitted by both parties.
    The real purpose of the parade was to drag the seriously unbrilliant and mildly violent hooligan element into a political issue. Provoke a little demonstration, show a lot of force and pose as the concerned leader. It worked. Gyurcsany will go to any length to hang onto a job he’s incapable of actually doing. The country is deeper and deeper in debt and trouble and the government does nothing but waste more money on propaganda. Now if gays would care about the country, they would have cancelled the event or moved it to another location. They were used, the stupid “resistance” were used, and for the less gifted Gyurcsany came out as the savior and right wingers as the problem.
    Gyurcsany is not the solution, he is part of the problem. A country divided is the result.

  9. Viking says:

    So nowadays you are the guy who decide who has the right to demonstrate or not?
    Regarding the cost – Should we apply your logic on the Kossuth Ter “demonstrators” also – how much of money has they not costed us, they few taxpayers still left in Hungary?
    I am all for everyone should have the right and means to show their feelings/opinions about basically everything. I am not for banning demonstrations, even if we must demands they follow a certain protocol, like not physically assulting people (includes even the police…) or destroying other people’s and public property. For me that is democracy, which you obviously have no understanding for.

  10. Stan says:

    Here’s how you do it:
    1. Read the post
    2. Understand it
    3. Respond
    If you keep neglecting the first two, the third one will always end up silly, just like your latest response.
    So when did I suggest any kind of ban? One of my least favorite words is “ban”.
    If people want to parade, let them. I question their motivation and wish they had the decency not to do it at this time, but I would never ban it, even if I had the means to do it.
    Of course I also have the right to express my opinion. I believe this parade was not about gay rights or dignity or whatever. It was media manipulation, propaganda at its worst. On one side gays wanted to provoke a mob reaction to get some undeserved sympathy, mostly from ultra liberals and other mental midgets.
    On the other side Gyurcsany and his troubled government needed some diversion. For a few days it will be “bad homophobe nazis” in the headlines, not “stinking MSZP and SZDSZ”.
    As for political protests in general, these should be better organized. Hooligans don’t do much good, throwing stuff at the police will only give them an excuse to beat up a bunch of peaceful protesters. I would not be surprised if most of these punks were hired help for the government. They seem to work for them.
    Same with the people throwing eggs and other things at gays. If I had the power to organize a protest, I would have asked everyone to stay away from the event. Let the gays march on empty streets, no one’s watching. Imagine…

  11. Joe says:

    Stan says;
    “I believe this parade was not about gay rights or dignity or whatever”.
    I bet you didn’t ask a single person in the parade why they were there.
    I have been to many Gay Pride parades, the last one in Toronto last year. There were over one million people at the parade. There was not one single negative incident. There was not one single arrest. In fact, Toronto police consider the Pride Parade the safest parade after the Santa Clause parade.
    And, best of all, millions of Canadian dollars were spent on hotels, food, drinks etc by the tourists.
    If Toronto can do it I’m sure Budapest can do it.
    So, Stan, will you help to make next year’s Pride parade in Budapest a success?

  12. Viking says:

    You surprise me – “Stan The Softie”, nothing that I have noticed before, but I have been off some weeks.
    I agree that letting a demo walk hrough empty streets would be a powerful, but non-violent, statement. A similar thing would be to get a number of people turning their backs to the demo (for whatever reason), especially dressed in catching T-shirts.
    I do not buy your reasoning why it was so bad to actually hold this specific demo. The gay-question has nothing to do with the current Gov’t, similar incidents and outright bans have been happening in other parts of the old Soviet occupied Eastern Europe, including today’s Russia. The anti-demo protesters there use the same logic and arguments as our local ones, but they have no Hungarian Gov’t.
    The gay-bashing anti-demonstrators use the current Gov’t just as icing on the cake, it is extra. Do you really think that there would be no anti-demonstrators if Fidesz would be in power today? Or is your logic built on the assumption that a Fidesz Gov’t would have banned the Pride demo?

  13. Stan says:

    Most Hungarians don’t bother gays, they can be pretty tolerant. They accepted the gay lifestyle long ago as part of the new age. Gays in the other hand refuse to respect the majority, which don’t want any kind of sexhibitions on the streets of Budapest. Isn’t that a bit arrogant of them?
    How do you get so addicted to marching that you cannot give it up? If gays wanted to make a gesture, they could have skipped this year’s parade. They could have made a lot of friends by announcing that due to the high costs of the parade they will celebrate at home this year and save a buck or two for the city. They are Hungarians first and gays second, and would never want to offend others just to promote their own selfish cause.
    Instead they chose to march anyway, no matter what it costs as long as they can pose as victims and get some undeserved attention. People don’t appreciate this kind of self promotion.
    The parade eneded up being what it was intended to be by the people who pull the strings: a demonstration and counter demonstration between two extremist groups. We need more police, less freedom, long live the SZDSZ, MSZP and Gyurcsany.
    Both the marching gays and the retarded egg-throwers were just puppets in the big game. Bravo.

  14. Joe says:

    Stan wrote:
    “Gays in the other hand refuse to respect the majority, which don’t want any kind of sexhibitions on the streets of Budapest. Isn’t that a bit arrogant of them?”
    What would you say about this that I found on http://www.sexiside.hu/
    Who is being arrogant? And wrong headed (no oblique pun intended)?
    At least when I gave or received a blow job outside, it was in a dark city park. No one was disturbed.
    Can you live with all this information, Stan?

  15. Joe says:

    Stan wrote:
    “If gays wanted to make a gesture, they could have skipped this year’s parade. They could have made a lot of friends by announcing that due to the high costs of the parade they will celebrate at home this year and save a buck or two for the city. They are Hungarians first and gays second, and would never want to offend others just to promote their own selfish cause.”

  16. Joe says:

    Oops. I meant to say:

  17. barak says:

    I was at the parade.
    You are blaming the gays for the cost of the parade. Do i have to pay the stone that they are throuing to me?. how can you blame me for the cost that were caused by the people that were trying to hit me?. I didn´t cause any cost or any damage to the city. Or i´m gyulty because i´m gay?.
    I have to give you some explanations: I´m not “sexual confused”, i´m quite sure what i am: I am gay. Not confusion at all. And i know also that i´m respectfull person, so i don´t call others “idiot” because i don´t like their arguments, can you say the same Stan?.
    When you say “sexhibitions” is when i´m sure you didn´t see the parade and you just speak from your prejudices and stereotipes, in the budapest 2008 gay parade i just saw one man without t-shirt, is it sexhibition?. we were very worried just trying to keep safety.
    And there is not a “gay society” that you say should “go to hell”. There is a society with gay people in it (as me), and untorelant people (as you). Sorry but we are in the same society Stan.
    You asked what did we do for the society. Beeing gay doesn´t makes me share the merits of whitman or Proust, as beeing english the ones of Shakespeare. But i can tell you what i did for the society, on saturday i recieved a tomato on my face while i was standig up for the human rigths, the human rigth of free speech, the same one that you use to blame me. What did you do for the society Stan?.
    With love,

  18. Erik says:

    I would only say to Stan here to remember that it is up to legally-elected or appointed officials to decide if a proposed public event should not be held because it may be “obscene,” subject to guidelines that are as objective as possible. And once they make a decision that an event isn’t obscene and can take place in public, it is their obligation to make sure that people who participate in the event get the same public services and courtesies as those taking part in any other event. This means pride marchers get the same treatment as the people who carry St. István’s hand around every August, or even the nyílások, when they go out and march. And this isn’t just “good policy” – it’s what separates us from the barbarians.

  19. Viking says:

    Stan, your logic is becoming more and more wonderful. Why stop at just gays should not demonstrate because of the high cost, why should Fradi play football? Many Fradi matches cost society a lot of money in abnormal security costs due to the few hooligans. Many of them were of course out on the streets on Saturday, maybe not in so “outragous” dress.
    Any more groups that should stay home?

  20. John Simpson says:

    I totally agree with Stan, I have nothing against gays, but if homosexuality is supposed to be a natural state (according to them) why do we need a gay parade?
    You do not see parades celebrating heterosexuality!
    The country has no money, people are struggling to live without having to use tax payers money for such abnormal dribble.
    We have enough serious problems without having to finance a bunch of nancy boys marching through the city!

  21. Öcsi says:

    Okay, John Simpson, you’ve spewed your ignorance for all to see.
    Now, get back under the rock from which you came.

  22. Stan says:

    PDA (public display of affection) is in bad taste. No matter who’s doing it, girls with boys, man with man or Öcsi with his donkey.
    Dedicating a parade to this is just disgusting, regardless of sexual orientation.
    Parades in general are a waste of time. I can’t think of a single good reason for doing that.
    Now if there are half a million people on the streets, demanding a better government, it’s not really a parade, I guess it’s ok then. Thanks to the large number of well armed police force and the paid provocators it will probably not be very successful, but at least it would have a purpose.
    So be nice in public and don’t march unless you really have to. Peace and quiet is good.

  23. Joe says:

    Stan wrote:
    “PDA (public display of affection) is in bad taste. No matter who’s doing it, girls with boys, man with man or Öcsi with his donkey.”
    I think Öcsi’s donkey is named Stan.

  24. JoeBones says:

    This really is the wrong country to live in if you don’t like public displays of affection isn’t it.

  25. Öcsi says:

    Stan wrote:
    “PDA (public display of affection) is in bad taste. No matter who’s doing it, girls with boys, man with man or Öcsi with his donkey.”
    Yup, you’ve got something in common with the Ayatollah. He agrees with you! You should move to Iran as you’d be happier and more comfortable in a controlled society. A free society just isn’t for everyone.
    And you know, I don’t have a donkey. I have an ass. But Joe got it’s name right. It’s called Stan.

  26. Viking says:

    “PDA (public display of affection)” (Stan)
    Is not that what the Fradi/Kispest-hooligans do when they throw beer-cans at the Police and everyone else? The poor things are just a bit sexually impaired, so they cannot express themselves differently.
    And Stan, when was it “half a million people on the streets, demanding a better government”? Like so many other things, it is just in your, and Simpson’s, and the other Ayatollah-disciples minds.
    To conclude your latest argument is that if the numbers are more than x, then it is OK. As usual you are the one who decides the value of x, the Hungarian Censor. Most of the time the Kossuth Ter-demonstrators were less than the 1500 who participated in the Parade, so the Kossuth Ter-demonstrators were also wrong then? They just cost a lot of money for what was in the end a total useless exercise.

  27. John Simpson says:

    I did not see the gay pride participants subjected to tear gas, water cannon, rubber bullets or beatings by the police!
    I have no issue that there is a nancy-boy (or girl) parade in Budapest, just next time, maybe they should hold it in parliament square surrounded by wire fencing and riot police!
    I do not condone the attacks by the yobs on the parade, but this unfortunately is not only confined to events where gays are present!

  28. Viking says:

    Maybe the reason for the Police not to “attack” the Parade was that they had a license?
    Believe me, gays and others will be “attacked” by the Police if they ever try violently (eggs allowed of course) to disrupt an anti-gay demonstration or similar. That how it should work, nothing strange with that.

  29. John Simpson says:

    I think we have to draw a distinction between homosexuals celebrating their gayness and homosexuals demonstrating against persecution.
    Although I do not go around educating my children that gays should be persecuted or harassed! I also do not educate them that homosexuality is normal or healthy human state.
    My line is that homosexuality is an abnormality but one that the sufferer does not necessarily have a choice about! So we should be understanding about be prepared to give and take a little.
    What I am not going to do is educate my children that homosexuality is a natural state! and neither should the homosexuals parade in the streets in front of children promoting it as such!

  30. Viking says:

    JS: “neither should the homosexuals parade in the streets in front of children promoting it as such!”
    Not clear if you mean that you do not want them voluntarily, because they are nice guys and do not want to offend you, or if it should be forbidden for homosexuals to parade?

  31. Joe says:

    John Simpson wrote:
    “What I am not going to do is educate my children that homosexuality is a natural state!”
    Then you’re doing your children a great disservice. They will not grow up to be intelligent like other children.
    What you fail to understand (perhaps you don’t want to understand) is that homosexuality is natural for homosexuals. Since I am gay, it is unnatural for me to have sex with a woman. But it’s perfectely natural for me to have sex with another man.
    Why is that so hard for you to understand that? And why would you feed garbage to your children? Because you’re uncomfortable with the idea of two men having sex together? What if one of your kids turned out to be gay? Would you tell them it’s unnatural? Would you have them “treated” by psychiatrists?

  32. John Simpson says:

    As I said, live and let live! I am not trying to imply that by you being a homosexual that you are anything other than an equal, but homosexuality is still an abnormal state and as such should not be promoted to children.
    If any of my children informed me that they were gay, I would have of course have to accept that fact, it would not stop me loving them, but I still would view it as an abnormal, unhealthy state.
    If you think that the key to nurturing an intelligent child is to make sure they believe that homosexuality is either normal or healthy then I think that you must be mistaken!
    I have no problem with you being a homosexual, but there is no need to promote the fact in front of minors!

  33. Joe says:

    John Simpson wrote:
    “I am not trying to imply that by you being a homosexual that you are anything other than an equal, but homosexuality is still an abnormal state and as such should not be promoted to children.”
    Children should be told the truth! They can handle it, unlike some parents. The quote below, from American Scientific, indicates that homosexuality is widespread. And very normal!
    “Like most animal species, penguins tend to pair with the opposite sex, for the obvious reason. But researchers are finding that same-sex couplings are surprisingly widespread in the animal kingdom. Roy and Silo belong to one of as many as 1,500 species of wild and captive animals that have been observed engaging in homosexual activity. Researchers have seen such same-sex goings-on in both male and female, old and young, and social and solitary creatures and on branches of the evolutionary tree ranging from insects to mammals.”

  34. John Simpson says:

    I think we are going to have to resign ourselves to a difference of opinion 🙂

  35. Stan says:

    Just curious: how far your sexual tolerance goes.
    Would you support an S&M parade? What’s your opinion of NAMBLA? How about folks who prefer to have sex with dead people or animals or who knows what? Would you call them normal?

  36. Joe says:

    Curious Stan asks:
    “…how far your sexual tolerance goes.”
    Anything between consenting adults is okay with me. It’s none of my business.

  37. charlie says:

    things will change when the hungarians realize what was
    realized a long time ago in the westren countries: the economic
    intrest in gay people. Gay men and women generally have good
    jobs they don’t have to spend their extra money on children, so
    they can spend it on what considered to be “luxury goods”,
    travelling etc.
    every major international company spends extra money on
    marketing their products or services specifically, aiming the gay
    budapest was quite a trendy destination for the gays, and when
    everybody says how difficult to survive here in hungary these
    days, why can’t you just milk this cow, and make money off
    so according to this the gays do more than the closet-homo
    nazis for this country.
    the pride was actually sponsored by google as well, not juts the
    liberal party as they say…
    grew up people! the gays don’t do any harm, we should make
    this country a more attractive destination for the, so they can
    spend their money here.

  38. Joe says:

    charlie wrote:
    “the gays don’t do any harm, we should make
    this country a more attractive destination for the, so they can spend their money here.”
    Right on! Actually, in the US, Massachusetts is mulling the idea of allowing out-of-state residents to marry. They’re obviously looking at California – where there is no restriction on who can marry – and all the money they’re making on same-sex marriages.
    Budapest could become a gay destination and it could benefit financially. Just look at all the dough Amsterdam is raking in! Budapest, with all its charms, could do the same.

  39. Bela says:

    Comment removed.

  40. Joe says:

    As usual, you are lost in the past and with incorrect information.
    Aids, today, kills way more heterosexuals than homosexuals.
    As for being unable to procreate, can you site the medical journal you got that misinformation from? For all I know, your grandmother or father “may” have been gay. But back then they couldn’t come out of the closet.

  41. JoeBones says:

    @Bela. Joe’s right. AIDS kills more heterosexuals worldwide than homosexuals, even in the developed world. HIV infection rates rates are also highest amongst young heterosexuals. This is a well established statistic agreed by all international health organisations. A little known fact is that the first AIDS death was in fact in 1959. Researchers from Manchester Royal Infirmary confirmed that a sailor who died from untreatable causes died from AIDS. The virus then appeared in isolated cases around the world sporadically until the 70’s when larger numbers of people, both straight and gay, started to succumb to the effects of AIDS. It was then that it came to the world’s attention. In the former Communist bloc HIV infection rates were higher amongst heterosexuals in the 80’s, mainly due to ignorance about the disease, the prostitution industry and intravenous drug-use. Currently the highest infection rates amongst all European citizens belong to teenage and 20 something heterosexuals, mainly infected from exposure the HIV from casual sex in travels around the world and then passing in around the peer group at home. So Bela, before you use such a distasteful remark, please at least do your research. Or are you like that idiot tmmu who commented on the story about the deaths of the Hungarian soldiers in Afganistan. I hope not.

  42. Stan says:

    Wrong again. AIDS spreads mainly among homosexuals.
    Heterosexuals get it from needles (drug or medical), blood transfusions, gay dentists and such. Some Africans get it from screwing with monkeys.
    AIDS is not transmitted through normal heterosexual interourse. Medical fact. The rest is homosexual propaganda.

  43. Joe says:

    Stan, colour me shocked! What fucking planet are you from?

  44. Viking says:

    Stan: “AIDS is not transmitted through normal heterosexual interourse.”
    Must be a joke. In Sweden we had a few guys that deliberately infected a number of women with nothing else but “heterosexual interourse”.
    To have unprotected sex while you are HIV/AIDS infected with another person that you do not inform of your infection beforehand is a crime in Sweden.
    The guys were sentenced to prison. I am awaiting Stan to start a campaign to get them free on the grounds stated in the quote.

  45. Adrian D. says:

    don’t let Béla know you’ve been reading the Independent – he won’t be your pal anymore. I hope R.Frisk didn’t write the article.

  46. Joe says:

    The link Stan gave as proof only proves he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
    From the article:
    Whereas once it was seen as a risk to populations everywhere, it was now recognised that, outside sub-Saharan Africa, it was confined to high-risk groups including men who have sex with men, injecting drug users, and sex workers and their clients.
    Do you know how many millions there are in sub-Saharan Africa?
    Do you know what “sex workers and their clients” mean?
    What the story says is that safe, protected sex, gay or straight, will not lead to an epidemic.

  47. Viking says:

    Also Stan the word “pandemic” means, according to Webster:
    ‘occurring over a wide geographic area and affecting an exceptionally high proportion of the population’
    So it has nothing to do with *how* you get the infection, just you can in a sense compare it with malaria. If you keep away from the malaria-mosquito-bites you will not get it. If you don’t, you get it.
    Did you get it?
    Or maybe it is your way of fooling yourself why you still can have unprotected sex with your girlfriend, because “the doctors must be lying when they told me I have it. I am not gay and have not been screwing monkeys!”

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