Hungary would like to see the European Union begin ratification of the stabilisation and association agreement it signed with Serbia, Foreign Minister Kinga Goncz told the Novi Sad newspaper Dnevnik, in an article published on Monday.
Goncz said she would like to see the transitional agreement to facilitate trade between Serbia and the EU, a part of the association agreement, go into effect immediately. Hungary will propose that it do so to the Brussels meeting of member-country representatives, she said, but added that the foreign ministers’ council will have to give its approval to carry the proposal.
Serbia should be a member of the European Union. It is in Hungary’s interest and, more importantly, it is in Europe’s interest.
There’s less chance of Serbia tripping and falling if it walks forward with the EU.
Personally, I would like to see all of the former Yugoslavia and Albania become members of the EU.
No. The Balkans are not part of civilized Europe.
Those countries are nothing but trouble. Not to mention the new wave of African and Asian immigrants getting into Europe through these areas. I don’t support the EU, but I would like to reserve Europe for Europeans.
Stan: “The Balkans are not part of civilized Europe”
They will be if we include them, but it will take a few years. The problem will just not disappear if you ignore it. For our own sake we need to defuse the “Balkan Issue”. We are next-doors and we want a peaceful neighbor, not a one which plotting more violence.
I do not understand how that small area can produce so many “African and Asian immigrants”? That is a border issue, if they are included there is no problem (applying the same logic).
Stan: “I don’t support the EU, but I would like to reserve Europe for Europeans”.
So you do not want to be part of the EU, but you want to decide who should be in? Hhmm.
Also to quote yourself in another post – if you can be an Hungarian by just living here, why can not you be an European then?
If the rest of Europe have had just that argument, why should they have let Hungary in at all. Did you not come from Asia originally?
“Civilized Europe” was making factories of death. It was not even so long ago! Dont think these thing cant happen again.
For the most part I agree with Stan’s world view and commend highly his erudition and literary aptitude.
Incidentally I noticed how the Politically Correct speech creeping into the forum:
“Stan: “I don’t support the EU, but I would like to reserve Europe for Europeans”.
To put it bluntly Europe belongs to the White Christian people of prestigious culture and National History and Third Worldly scumbags better stay clear.
Sorry for the off topic post.
Bela: “Europe belongs to the White Christian people of prestigious culture and National History”.
So what the fuck are you “indigenous” Hungarians doing here then?
Should we repatriate you guys back to Asia?
Viking,
.Hu is a borderline case:
The plus side: all the Nobel price winners like the Vitamin C by Szentgyorgyi, or Dennis Gabor inventor of the Hologram, Edward Teller the “H” bomb man, and many more mostly writers and artist, scientist etc.
The minus side: infatuations with Fascism and Communism…but the same is true for the rest of Europe even for the Herrenvolks or Übermensch…
So let’s accept .Hu
Bela,
Funny that you refer to the Nobel Prize, after supporting ‘Balder’ who claims that Sweden is a Communist State and have been that for many years.
So a Communist Prize should be used as argument that “indigenous Hungarians” (your choosing of that native word) belongs to the “White Christian people of prestigious culture and National History”.
Most of those Hungarians are/were of course Jews and I believe only 1 actually studied in a University in today’s Hungary. We had a long thread about that on PestiSide some time ago. Go look.
Just to make one thing *very* clear. I do regard Hungary as part of Europe. What pisses me off is the typical racist slur Bela, Guyrcsany’s Paid Provocateur (GPP), spews out.
I don’t recognize Sweden as a real country.
What have they contributed to music or arts or literature? Ok, they had Strindberg, with some help from Dürrenmatt (Play Strindberg). What else? We are still waiting for an official apolgy for Ace of Base and other horrors, like Saab cars and Viking the blog-spammer. Let’s all face north now, and ignore Sweden. That’ll teach them.
Viking,
Joe said that Mandela is not a tribal man it would be a racial epithet to say so. I was compelled to tell him that he is part of the Tembu Xhosa tribe, since then he is angry at me.
You said something about Swedish Nobel stuff (nitpicking a new complaint) but you are off:
Check this out:
The Norwegian Nobel Institute- The Norwegian Nobel Committee
http://nobelpeaceprize.org/
Why don’t you perform a little research like I do instead of letting out a bunch of huff and puff and hot air?
Viking,
“hat pisses me off is the typical racist slur Bela, Guyrcsany’s Paid Provocateur (GPP), spews out.”
Care to delineate the specific RACE you are talking about?
Which race and what is the “slur” that is not factual?
****
I agree with you:
“Most of those Hungarians are/were of course Jews and I believe…”
I stated in a very early tread that I do not mix the Commie Jews with Imre Kalman, Ferenc Molnar or Einstein. Commie Jews contribution to the World consisted of Gulag, Cheka, AVO, and assorted mayhem worldwide. Can you remember?
Just like Soros: he created nothing to enrich humanity: successful speculation with others money is not a great human quality.
Bela (GPP): “Why don’t you perform a little research like I do instead of letting out a bunch of huff and puff and hot air?”
No, I do not need to look on the Internet to remember the story every Swedish and hopefully also Norwegian child learn.
The Nobel Prize was created by Alfred Nobel, a Swedish Inventor. He made a huge fortune worldwide by inventing dynamite. His idea to invent dynamite was to find a weapon that would end all wars. He could not imagine that anyone would go to war after he showed off the effect of dynamite.
Later to compensate all the bad the dynamite had been used for he created the Swedish Nobel Committee to give out prizes to the best scientists worldwide to help mankind progress.
Around 1900 the Norwegian people wanted to have their own country. Norway was part of Sweden, like Finland and the Baltic states were before and the Swedish King was also King of Norway. To avoid blood spill the Swedish King approved that the Union between the 2 countries would be nullified 1905.
To honor the Norwegian people the Norwegian branch of the Nobel Committee was created, with the single task of giving out the Nobel Peace Prize.
Any chance that Hungarians and some neighboring people should learn something from this Norwegian/Swedish Saga?
Viking
Please keep on telling me more about the racial slur stuff I am so eager to learn new things from you.
So, give me more info:
“hat pisses me off is the typical racist slur Bela, Guyrcsany’s Paid Provocateur (GPP), spews out.”
What Race are you talking about?
What is the slur?
Bela (GPP),
Because you are obviously not able to remember your own writing a few hours before I copy the following:
“To put it bluntly Europe belongs to the White Christian people of prestigious culture and National History and Third Worldly scumbags better stay clear.
Bela at July 29, 2008 2:56 PM”
Please check wikipedia or any other normal source for the definition of “racism” (not Race!), before you start complaining. Your set-up is rather obvious.
A side-note on Soros and Nobel. I see no big difference between the 2 men, in the sense they earned a lot of money (Nobel probably much more relatively) and both wanted to give back, at least something, to the progress of humanity (in their own interpretation of course).
Nobel earned extremely much money on making it possible to kill more people in one bang. Hardly a step forward for humanity. He felt very bad for that. It was suppose to be a deterrent for future wars, but it became a part of it instead.
Like the selection of the Nobel Prize winners, what Soros spends his money on has been discussed lively. They are not of course not the only “philanthropist” in history. That you do not share any of their views is a total other thing.
Anonymous,
Are you losing your mind?
Europeans are white (Caucasian) racial group.
Or not?
Third worldly scumbag denotes no specific race.
From Wiki:
“People with racist beliefs might hate certain groups of people according to their racial groups.”
And? Is this crime or what? Do I must like all the scumbag in the world? I am not the Messiah so what is your problem? We have the right to dislike Anybody, including you.
Bela,
According to the United Nations Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination:
‘the term “racial discrimination” shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, religion, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life’.
Your statement:
“White Christian people of prestigious culture and National History”
If you did not know it, it exists several religions in Europe and we have people without any religion (or at least how you would recognize it).
Also the statement implies that “White” people have more right to Europe, than any non-”White” existing citizens.
The ending remark “Third Worldly scumbags better stay clear” gives the association (which I believe you intended) that all people from the “Third World” are scumbags.
It is OK to dislike me, as long as you dislikes me as an unique person. To dislike me because I am Swedish, White, European, have or do not have a special religion, usw, is not. All that is classed as Racism.
Finally the context of your original post, in connection to Stan’s post, was supposed to give associations to racism. You wanted to make a racist remark and you did it. That is all.
Viking,
Your stand represent the neo-Marxist EU Multiculturalist, transnational policy with strong anti-Christian bias in favor of the Islamisation of Europe. These issues are dealt with in-depth on a number of Western blogs and it’s still beyond the scope of this forum.
See: balder.org
“Also the statement implies that “White” people have more right to Europe, than any non-”White” existing citizens.”
Resounding YES!
The ending remark “Third Worldly scumbags better stay clear” gives the association (which I believe you intended) that all people from the “Third World” are scumbags.”
Your association bears no relevance to the actual facts.
Regards, EA 2140
Regards, EA 2140
Viking,
There’s an easy way to prevent racism in Europe: keep it for the Europeans, don’t allow mass migration from any other continent. (continent is not a racist term I hope). Europeans have spent a lot of time and effort to build a home for themselves, there’s no reason to just give it up.
I even offer a deal to keep it fair: for every native European who moves to another continent, we shall allow one person from that continent to settle down here. So if you want to emigrate to Iran, (the sooner the better) then a lucky Iranian can take your place. I think this deal is as fair and non-racist as any, and it may save Europe.
War of words:
The newest intimidation tactic of the international Left is to label everybody who disagree with their Utopian social engineering as Fascist, Nazi, Racist you name it. Their goal is to instill shame and fear in the people so they could execute their pernicious New World Order project unhindered.
We are no longer afraid of these losers for Western Europe is slowly awakening and the resistance is about to grow.
Béla:
The ‘losers’ who promote multiculturalism, tolerance, human rights and democracy are primarily the Americans, British and Canadians who did so much to vanquish Nazi racism and are fighting for their liberal values in Afghanistan today. It is not at all clear which side you would be on in either of these conflicts.
Those three countries’ openness to immigration is one reason why they are so successful and prosperous today.
Stan,
“keep it for the Europeans, don’t allow mass migration from any other continent”
We have a problem, Stan, our appallingly low fertility figures mean that we are not going to be able to afford our health and pension systems without immigration to provide the workforce.
The US’s long run of economic growth has been significantly driven by massive immigration of Central Americans. My lifetime has seen the American population grow from 240 to 300 million whereas the European population has barely moved.
Kincs,
You sound like the Public Relation reps. of the EU propaganda dept. by spouting off these unrealistic rosy projections.
Keep up your good work.
Bela (GPP): “Your stand represent the neo-Marxist EU Multiculturalist, transnational policy with strong anti-Christian bias in favor of the Islamisation of Europe.”
I quoted the official United Nations Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination. It is you ‘evaluation’ that it is “neo-Marxist”.
It is my surprise that you are against Multiculturalism in EU. You do not want several cultures in the EU, just one? Do you really think it will be the Hungarian that wins that race?
“anti-Christian” means recognizing that there are more religions out there? I do not understand your support for Christianity – it is alien to Europe, it is a Jewish thing. First around year 400 the regulation that *only* Jews could become Christians was removed. The move happened because missionaries found it was so hard to first convert people in North-Africa to Judaism and then to Christianity. The poor suckers did not understand why they need to be a Jew before converting to the correct religion. A clear argument that they should stay in Africa, right?
Your diagnosis is rather easy: ‘xenophobia’, a fear or contempt of that which is foreign or unknown, especially of strangers or foreign people. You must have a fun time in the US.
Bela (GPP): “Your association bears no relevance to the actual facts.”
So, which are “the actual facts”? You did not elaborate – Are all people from the 3rd world scumbags? Or just the non-”White” ones?
Stan: “There’s an easy way to prevent racism in Europe: keep it for the Europeans, don’t allow mass migration from any other continent.”
Where did you get the idea that *anyone* in this thread, up to now, has suggested to “allow mass migration from any other continent”???
There is no “mass migration” going on in Europe at the moment or since WWII.
There is both a regulated immigration to the different countries in Europe, including the ones that are in the EU.
There is also an unregulated/illegal immigration mainly to the EU. That is dealt with by the individual states and Schengen border.
Finally there are some migration between the EU-states, mainly from the New to the Old. That is both regulated and unregulated. The problem for Hungary in this is that skilled people are Going West, but that is the price of Democracy.
As Adrian D pointed out in all EU-states we do have a problem with both skilled workers and workers who can do those low-prestige jobs, now when everyone is going to be a Professor. “Mass migration” is of course not the solution, but ‘regulated immigration’ was what fixed the Swedish Economy in the 1950-60s.
Racism and xenophobia is not solved by exclusion. South-Africa was not less racist during Apartheid. Exclusion tends to increase those two evils.
Adrian says: “The US’s long run of economic growth has been significantly driven by massive immigration of Central Americans.”
That’s not true. Mexicans and other third world immigrants are just the new version of slavery. They do the jobs no one else wants any more, at least not for the wages illegals get. Of course they make life a little more convenient and somewhat cheaper for Americans, but they contribute very little to economic growth.
Immigrants come with a big baggage, they bring their third world “vales” and habits so most Americans hate their guts and want them out.
Check out a few US message boards. I have never seen Americans so united. They all want to get rid of Mexicans. Can’t blame them.
Viking,
Watch what happens when the Balkans join the EU. The gates will open, the flood of immigrants will follow. “Controlled” immigration placed a large number of unhappy muslims all over Europe. These people cannot and will not assimilate. They started out as cheap labor, and quickly they turned into a major problem.
My idea of tolerance is that I don’t go to Iran to preach atheism, and I expect them not to build mosques here. Anything wrong with that?
Stan: “Watch what happens when the Balkans join the EU. The gates will open, the flood of immigrants will follow”
No one will stay in Former Yugoslavia and Albania? How many people do we speak about, are they standing on top of each other?
Of course Hungary will be flooded of “Ethnic Hungarians” from Serbia. That we do not want, right? I am mean all these “Ethnic Hungarians” from Romania that is swarming over the place right now. Uhh.
Your arguments are very similar to what some people claimed in WestEurope before Hungary joined the EU. Not so much changed in reality.
Until the Schengen-area includes the area we speak about now, no difference will occur, regardless Balkan is part of the EU or not. Borders are relatively well guarded.
Part of the approval process EU will demand that the new members are so stable that people want to stay home, like Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria.
Stan: “most Americans hate their guts and want them out”…”They all want to get rid of Mexicans. Can’t blame them.”
Well, most people in the world wants to get rid of the Yankees. Can’t blame them.
Stan: “My idea of tolerance is that I don’t go to Iran to preach atheism, and I expect them not to build mosques here. Anything wrong with that?”
Yes. Why should we not allow Free Speech?
Your argument just gives Al-Qaeda right in their argument that they are defending the Holy Land (Saud-Arabia) against the Infidels (US troops). You think the same.
Viking,
“No one will stay in Former Yugoslavia and Albania?”
No, pay attention. The former Yugoslavia is full of pro smugglers. They will not guard the border of Europe, they will make a living smuggling third world immigrants to Europe from other continents. That’s the problem.
“Your arguments are very similar to what some people claimed in WestEurope before Hungary joined the EU.”
Wrong again. Hungary is landlocked and all its neighbors are European countries, at least geographically speaking.
Yugoslavia can open its ports to unwanted non-European immigrants.
“Well, most people in the world wants to get rid of the Yankees”.
The US could have saved itself and all of us a lot of trouble and money by not supporting Israel. No terrorist attacks, no 9/11, no Iraq or Afghanistan, no terrorist paranoia.
The US foreign policy didn’t make Isreal too popular. Makes you think how did a small and insignificant artificial country manage to fool Americans into supporting them at all costs.
Stan: “The former Yugoslavia is full of pro smugglers. They will not guard the border of Europe, they will make a living smuggling third world immigrants to Europe from other continents.”
Is this something they have in the blood?
It will of course be part of the preparation process to ensure that borders are safe.
When Schengen was extended to Austria, Bayern/Germany was upset – ‘cannot trust those sloppy and incompetent Austrians’.
Now when Hungary was included into Schengen the Austrians were really upset, you can imagine what they had to say.
And now…
As I said, before Schengen – No Deal! They still have to smuggle it through the Schengen borders, as they do today. A couple of days ago it was reported that the border violators gone down 10% compared with last year here in Hungary.
So, Béla, you are unable to say whether you supported the forces of democracy or the Nazis in World War II. I had my suspicions; thank you for confirming them.
Stan says:
“they contribute very little to economic growth.”
The CEA says:
“Our review of economic research finds immigrants not only help fuel the Nation’s economic growth, but also have an overall positive effect on the income of native-born workers.”
Stan Says:
“They do the jobs no one else wants any more,”
The CEA says:
Many immigrants are entrepreneurs. The Kauffman Foundation’s index of entrepreneurial activity is nearly 40% higher for immigrants than for natives
Stan Says:
“they bring their third world “vales” and habits”
The CEA says:
“Immigrants and their children assimilate into U.S. culture. For example, although 72% of first-generation Latino immigrants use Spanish as their predominant language, only 7% of the second generation are Spanish-dominant”
http://www.whitehouse.gov/cea/cea_immigration_062007.html
It seems to me that unlike in Europe and the problems we have assimilating islamists, immigration is great success in the USA. Unless
of course, the Whitehouse is a shadowy marxist organisation issuing pro-immigration propaganda.
Adrian says: “Many immigrants are entrepreneurs”
How many? I’m one of them, but I’m from Europe.
I didn’t take anyone’s job, I run my own internet business, pay my taxes and never take any government handouts. I assimilated well.
We’re talking about the millions of illegal Mexicans. They work on farms, meat plants, constructions, cut lawns and clean hotel rooms.
They pay no taxes, send most of their income back to Mexico and the US taxpayer picks up the cost of providing healthcare, education and other social services for their large families.
The ones who don’t work deal drugs and commit other crimes, most LA gangs are Latinos these days.
Legal immigrants in general, in reasonable numbers are of course an important factor in the US, but the Mexican flood is more trouble than good.
Stan,
You wrote:
“The US could have saved itself and all of us a lot of trouble and money by not supporting Israel. No terrorist attacks, no 9/11, no Iraq or Afghanistan, no terrorist paranoia.”
The spread of Islamic fundamentalism, Taliban, Sharia, London-Madrid bombing, Philippine Abu Sayef, Darfur, Iran, Iraq, etc. has nothing to do with Israel. Without the presence of Israel the whole region would have been a blend of homogeneous Muslim Caliphate under a ruthless despot churning out suicidal terrorist endlessly from the madrassas. Your barely covert antipathy toward Israel overlooks it’s strategic assets: it served as barrier against the Soviet Middle-Eastern adventures near the oil fields, and by eliminating Israel the Muslim Saudi financed radicalization will not be abated. Ostensibly you are still not exposed to the European Muslim question which is well documented in Oriana Fallaci’s book.
You won’t appease the French or British Muslim rage or wide spread honor killings by gassing the remaining few Jooos. When the first Islamic ghetto grow roots in .HU – sure thing over time in the future – you will change your name to Istvan Dobó of Eger.
Bela (GPP): “Without the presence of Israel the whole region would have been a blend of homogeneous Muslim Caliphate under a ruthless despot churning out suicidal terrorist endlessly from the madrassas.”
1st one can ask ‘is that different from today?’. Why should I bother about Israel if anyway the Arabs would be “churning out suicidal terrorist endlessly from the madrassas” sent to the Western World to kill us? So as argument goes, it was pretty stupid, but what is new?
Before the forced creation of Israel, which was supported by your favorite Stalin, Jews had lived in reasonable peace with its neighbors in other countries outside Palestine for several hundreds of years. This has now changed, maybe for ever.
The majority of Palestinians have always been Christians. When I was in the Gaza Strip in the middle of the 80s the Palestinians I met spoke about the few and underground Muslim Brotherhood, that were infiltrating from Egypt. They were small in numbers but the people I spoke with were afraid that their influence would grow, because Arafat was rather unpopular in the Occupied Territories at that time and there was not so much alternative. Today, 20 years, one generation later, a majority in the Gaza Strip supports the Islamic movement Hamas. Conclusion, the Western Christians gave up on the Middle-East Christians.
No one knows what would have happened if Israel would not have been forcefully created, maybe a negotiated settlement like in Northern Ireland?
Viking,
I,- unlike you who nitpick a word and by dissecting it create a long, drawn out a contrarian pseudo argument – would touch only the gist of the matter.
The UN is farce and is very unpopular in the USA for it’s controlled by infamous despots:
“These countries will join Syria, Algeria, Libya, Saudi Arabia, SUDAN!!! and Vietnam, all countries with very poor human rights records elected to the commission last year.”
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2001/05/03/sudan135.htm
2.”It is my surprise that you are against Multiculturalism in EU. You do not want several cultures in the EU, just one? ”
Multiculturalism is code word for the Islamic-Third worldly immigration support and promotion: it doesn’t refer at the historical Greco-Roman culture of Europe.
3. “I do not understand your support for Christianity – it is alien to Europe, it is a Jewish thing.”
Judeo-Christian is a term used to describe the body of concepts and values which are thought to be held in common by Judaism and adapted by Christianity, and considered, often along with classical Greco-Roman civilization) a fundamental basis for Western legal codes and moral values.
The Socialist (EU) aim is to purge religion from public domain and replace it with atheist STATEISM: for the left the Church was always a major obstacle to total control. (Pope John Paul II)
Viking,
Some of your narrative is so absurd that bordering the insane:
“Jews had lived in reasonable peace with its neighbors in other countries outside Palestine for several hundreds of years.”
As second class half-citizens, or Dhimmis in the Ottoman empire (pre-Palestine).
“No one knows what would have happened if Israel would not have been forcefully created”
Continuation of the Holocaust under different form and pretext:
Joos have no place in Europe as History proved over and over again: they may stay at their own peril. Europe killed most of the “einsteins” and replaced them with millions of Ali Baba.
Off topic:
Interesting changes occurring in the world: in the past the Right was the Antisemitic party whereas today the Marxist Left virulent Antisemitism on a par or surpassing even the Nazi’s hate.
And we are witnessing the birth of the Rightist Christian Zionist for Israel movement.
Interesting reading at:
Christian Zionism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Stan says:
“They pay no taxes, send most of their income back to Mexico and the US taxpayer picks up the cost of providing healthcare, education and other social services for their large families.”
The CEA says:
“The long-run impact of immigration on public budgets is likely to be positive. Projections of future taxes and government spending are subject to uncertainty, but a careful study published by the National Research Council estimated that immigrants and their descendants would contribute about $80,000 more in taxes (in 1996 dollars) than they would receive in public services.”
Stan says:
“The ones who don’t work deal drugs and commit other crimes, most LA gangs are Latinos these days.”
The CEA says:
“Immigrants have lower crime rates than natives. Among men aged 18 to 40, immigrants are much less likely to be incarcerated than natives.”
Stan says:
“Legal immigrants in general, in reasonable numbers are of course an important factor in the US”
Adrian says:
I’ve never endorsed illegal anything. And as we immigrants ourselves, Stan, we shouldn’t saw through the branch on which we sit.
Bela (GPP): “The UN is farce and is very unpopular in the USA for it’s controlled by infamous despots”
UN is unpopular with the current US administration because it is not the toy of the US. Rightly it did not buy the arguments for going to war with Iraq.
“Multiculturalism is code word for the Islamic-Third worldly immigration support and promotion: it doesn’t refer at the historical Greco-Roman culture of Europe”
That is your conspiracy definition. Normal people define ‘multiculturalism advocates a society that extends equitable status to distinct cultural and religious groups, with no one culture predominating’. Sounds like the US Constitution to me.
Immigration is a separate question, we speak about people who are there already and their right to use Free Speech.
“Judeo-Christian …”
The values most commonly assigned to the Judeo-Christian tradition are liberty and equality. Values that basically can be found in many religions. You must not be religious to believe in such values either. Religions do not have exclusivity on these values. No wonder these values have been very important in many uprisings, not only in Europe.
To use these values in any way to exclude non-”White Christians” just shows that you have missed the point with your religion (if you have one).
Viking,
“No one knows what would have happened if Israel would not have been forcefully created, maybe a negotiated settlement like in Northern Ireland”
Northern Ireland was forcefully created from parts of the Irish province of Ulster in 1921, as an ill-fated attempt to end the Irish war of Independence – it lead to an immeidate Irish civil war. Who knows, maybe in another 20 years or so Isreal and Palestine can reach a negotiated settlement. However, by far the most important ingredient in the settlement in Ireland was the growth of Eire’s economy. So maybe we have to wait until Gaza becomes an economic tiger…
PS I really lke the way this blog is shaping up: Béla vs. Stan, Adrian D. vs Viking
Bela (GPP): “‘No one knows what would have happened if Israel would not have been forcefully created’
Continuation of the Holocaust under different form and pretext”
The simple truth is that if we Europeans had not driven our Jews to what would be Israel, by creating the Holocaust, there would not have been any need to create the exclusive Jewish State of Israel.
You are also supporting your Italian friend Berlusconi’s plan to create a 8 million camp in Transylvanya for all Roma in Europe?
You are of course not anti-semitic with the names “Joos” and Ali Baba”, only we other are?
“Joos have no place in Europe”.
So first we base our values on their religion and then they are not allowed to live here? Showing real “Christian” values.
Just an example from Iraq about the situation of Jews outside Palestine:
In the 1930s, the situation of the Jews in Iraq deteriorated. Previously, the growing Iraqi Arab nationalist sentiment included Iraqi Jews as fellow Arabs, but these views changed with the introduction of Nazi propaganda and the ongoing conflict in the Palestinian Mandate.
Judaism, Christianity and Islam are often described as “Semitic religions”, though the term Abrahamic religions is more commonly used today. So you are against all these religions, the people who obey them and the values they represent.
Adrian D: “So maybe we have to wait until Gaza becomes an economic tiger…”
Yeahh, that would be the Day, today. My point was more what would have been possible if the exclusive Jewish State of Israel had not been forcefully created. As being an eternal optimist…
Today, with the Israelis building walls, roadblocks and in every other way restrict movement inside what is left of the Gaza Strip and the Westbank, and control (as in stops) all land, sea and air transport, it is hard to see when that will happen. Right now the situation is rather pessimistic, but that is when the brights ideas are born. Question is just if those ideas are violent and confrontational or not. Not so much will happen before next Spring.
The latest very low-tech attacks with bulldozers were executed by Israeli citizens, which is partly a new development and has always been the worst fear of Israel.
The problem for Israel is that they got totally whipped by the Hizbollah, so they have limited alternatives. Now they seem to concentrate on an attack on Iran, before the change of Command in US.
Adrian D:
Eventually you will see the dialogs of the deaf: the Leftist are extremely doctrinaire, they attempt to re-engineer the society according to their Utopian dream world, they always repeat the same script or mantra which is pontificated by superior powers like the UN, EU bureaucrats, promulgated by Marxist ideologues or the State.
The Right (modern conservatives)judgment however devoid of strict ideological constraint, instead their opinion is based on empirical observation on the ground.
Example: Viking, like a high priest, preaches about the UN Human Declaration while ignores the violators (Cuba, Sudan, China, Lybia) who do the declaration.
We conservatives do in reverse: when Cuba and Koffi Annan open his mouth we no longer listen because of their track record.
You talk about the benefit of the illicit immigration while referencing at a “Superior Power” like CEA (Delphi Oracle) Stan and I opine on the fact we encounter on the streets of Los Angeles or Miami every day or at the emergency Hospital lobby which is full of illegal Mehicans.
Viking, Adrian D:
What happened to the greenhouses that the Jews left behind in Gaza?
NEVE DEKALIM, Gaza Strip – Palestinians looted dozens of greenhouses on Tuesday, walking off with irrigation hoses, water pumps and plastic sheeting in a blow to fledgling efforts to reconstruct the Gaza Strip.
American Jewish donors had bought more than 3,000 greenhouses from Israeli settlers in Gaza for $14 million last month and transferred them to the Palestinian Authority. Former World Bank President James Wolfensohn, who brokered the deal, put up $500,000 of his own cash.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9331863/
***
“My point was more what would have been possible if the exclusive Jewish State of Israel had not been forcefully created.”
Care to describe the surrounding Arab states Jordan, Syria economies pre-Israel and today?
What was the economical situation in Arab Palestine under the Ottomans and the British?
***
You are of course not anti-semitic with the names “Joos” and Ali Baba”, only we other are?
How many times should I say that my problem is with the Bolshevik Jews including your demigod Marx, and I have respect for Einstein and Imre Kalman. Ali Baba is accepted name, what is the matter with you?
Bela (GPP): “Viking, like a high priest, preaches about the UN Human Declaration while ignores the violators (Cuba, Sudan, China, Lybia) who do the declaration.
We conservatives do in reverse: when Cuba and Koffi Annan open his mouth we no longer listen because of their track record.”
What a lot of fucking bullshit.
Koffi Annan last day of work was January 1, 2007, but you could of course not get that right either.
Your GreenHouse story is funny, you can not find an African ShitHouse also? Do Gyurcsány pay you by the letter, that is why you copy articles into posts?
Viking:
“Your GreenHouse story is funny, you can not find an African ShitHouse also? Do Gyurcsány pay you by the letter, that is why you copy articles into posts?”
Do you deny these event took place? If so you are unworthy of attention: denying corroborated facts out of vile hatred is reprehensible and reflect badly on your character.
Kofi Annan is an everlasting SYMBOL of the rot at the UN. When you are carried away by your pent-up rage you are spouting off a bunch of nonsenses.
Others have noticed this phenomena too…
On a lighter note: I bet you get more money due to Gyurcsany good grace than I ever would.
Regards
Bela (GPP): “Do you deny these event took place? If so you are unworthy of attention: denying corroborated facts out of vile hatred is reprehensible and reflect badly on your character.”
“these event”? I only see the GreenHouse story and that on I watched on Live TV. I did not know I needed to confirm the story as such. It hardly changed the course of the Middle-East and has nothing to do with the theoretical ‘what-if’ discussion we have had.
Going back a bit here but I just wanted to mention that the only two countries in Europe to never have either worn stylish militaristic outfits while killing people (I’m referring to Fascism and Communism here) are Ireland and Britain (yeah, I know we don’t count as Europe, so many have made that comment before that we don’t have to go over it again). And before any of you wade in, Oswald Moseley’s Black Shirts don’t really count because they got their racist, Nazi-loving behinds well and truly spanked in Brick Lane. So why did political extremism never take hold in the wet islands off Europe. Maybe it’s because we never took the idea of dressing up very seriously (unless it’s kinky).
And as for Szerbia, Karadzic’s beard was so big and white when they ‘caught’ him I thought he was a potential leadership candidate for SzDSz.
Balkans in, Carpathia in. What the hell are we Westerners thinking, we only had to let the Poles in for the cheap labour but we got carried away and let all the crazy squad in too.
Bela: “You talk about the benefit of the illicit immigration while referencing at a “Superior Power” like CEA (Delphi Oracle) Stan and I opine on the fact we encounter on the streets of Los Angeles or Miami every day or at the emergency Hospital lobby which is full of illegal Mehicans.”
Anecdotal evidence is no substitute for wide-ranging data gathered beyond the scope of any individual.
In the meantime, until you can say that the Nazi defeat in WWII was a good outcome, you are hardly in a position to accuse others of “vile hatred”.
Kincs,
The concern of illegal immigration occupies 90% of the US media and blogs and debated every day on public forums. Your naive, but good intentioned post reveals that you are not well informed on the American public mood and reality than we are.
Illegal immigrants – akin to those who gather at the Moszkva ter – undercut wages, pays no taxes, and create a string of social ill. Do not confuse illegals (estimated to be around 15-20 millions) with legal ones who wait sometimes years for a visa and suffer disadvantages over illegals who jump over the border fence, and that is it.
They create the “Anchor babies” – give birth to children who are automatically US citizens and create legal loopholes to invade the US.
The tightening of immigration rules is on its way to the front burner even in the EU; illegals are kept in camps in France near the British channel…so please your post holds no water.
Bela: I will also take scientific evidence over media hype. It is naïve to do otherwise.
Béla,
I wouldn’t equate conservatism with the right. A lot of right wing opinion is either populist (Orbán) or reactionary, based on utopian readings of history (Hungaristas). David Cameron’s Conservatives in the UK are neither, not that I am particularly impressed with them.
To return to CEA report on immigration, there is a serious challenge to to the statistics that gets beyond your individual experience of illegal immmigrants. The statistics are almost certainly only based on the behaviour of legal first generation immigrants. Illegal immigration causes significant social problems, so does the failure to assimilate later generations. Of the 5 perpetrators of the 7/7 bombings in London, 4 were born in the UK, 1 was an Afro-carribean convert to Islam. Europe has an Islamist problem because it has an assimilation problem, it has an assimilation problem because it has a racism problem. I think immigration in the US has been relatively successful because being American is not essentially associated with being a WASP in the way being European national is associated with being of a particular ethnic origin.
Given the demographic fact of sub-replacement levels of fertility among all ethnically European groups and the most likely prognosis that this will lead to significantly reduced standards of living for Europeans. Europe has a choice, racism and decline, or assimilation and prosperity. Thus I am a profoundly anti-racist conservative.
Kincs think he knows something: “I will also take scientific evidence over media hype. It is naïve to do otherwise.”
Do you live in the US?
What do you call “scientific evidence”, government statistics? You think it beats reality?
Stan: “You think it beats reality?”
Well, goto Las Vegas. It is being built, maintained and serviced by ‘illegal’ immigrants (‘illegal’ as in not having official papers). That is why the State Of Nevada is one of the most pro-immigrant states. It would kill business there. The near-by states are opposite, because it killed business there.
Why always this hunt for the illegal immigrant, why are always the companies who create this surge never targeted? There are no draconian measurements against them.
On the other hand, if there would be draconian measurements and ‘all’ illegal immigrants were thrown out, a lot of WASPs would need to start to work, for a few USD/day. It would also not cost a USD to get your car washed anymore.
Wonder who would come out on top after this change of reality? Of course another of those pointless ‘what-if’ scenarios.
Viking,
Americans like cheap goods, but won’t work cheap.
Of course it will cost them dearly.
First manufacturing moved to China. Cheap labor, cheap goods, big profit, fewer jobs for Americans. It’s a trade-off and it will come back to us as a huge problem.
Some jobs you just cannot move overseas: agriculture, construction, service and hospitality industries, etc. No problem, you can import cheap labor and stay competitive. Now we have millions and millions of Mexicans, some of them legal some not. They are creating a serious cultural and social problem. Very few of them are capable or willing to assimilate or at least learn the language. You cannot call any company or government office without having to choose between English and Spanish. We’re being forced into this bilingual chaos. Makes you think why are Latinos the only ethnic group incapable of learning a simple language. All other immigrants can manage that.
Some areas of the US are rapidly going down to third world level. Americans don’t want that, obviously it’s not an improvement.
There’s a choice to be made: get rid of the occupying Latinos before they completely take over the country and deal with the economic consequences, or keep them and give up our standard of living. Most legal US citizens (even many legal residents of Mexican origin) are fed up with the flood of illegals. Now it’s up to you, Viking, to tell them they are wrong. I’m sure they will listen to you.
Viking tells me: “go to Vegas”.
Well, I spend about 2 weeks there almost every year. I love to eat at the Gulash Restaurant on West Sahara. There are some casinos and other fun things in Vegas, but the Hungarian restaurant alone is worth the trip.
Don’t thank the Mexicans for building Vegas, thank the Mafia.
There are similar problems in other countries as well. Hungary is full of foreigners for that matter, and one could argue that many of them come from “the west” the so called “rich countries” but the truth is, it doesnt help. The countries big shops and factories, including strategic assets, have been sold to the west, who are obviously here to make a profit on us, and now with the EU membership at full swing, good ( hungaqrian) professionals are leaving the country, while cheap labour is flooding in from the East. The USA isnt alone with its problems, but if you wanted to get rid of the Latinos you will have to find Americans willing to provide cheap labour, and I dont quite know where oyu will find those people.
Cutting costs by outsourcing to cheaper countries, and bringing in cheap labour is easy, the problems that creates on the longer run are here to stay though.
With regards to why Latinos cant speak English I tell you why, because they dont need to. There is enough of them to survive as a community even in the US.
Adrian D,
I may ruffle some feathers but I believe there is no “conservative” or bourgeois (it’s historical name) social class exist in .HU. The classic bourgeoisie that emerged after 1867 and built Budapest current scenic architecture – among countless other things – and comprised considerable number of industrialist Jews*, has been exterminated in the two WW-s and Communist purges or forced into emigration.
There will be a new replacement class but it’s takes time that has not yet come…
* A History of Habsburg Jews, 1670—1918 / Indiana University Press
http://www.iupress.indiana.edu/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=21373