The not-so-bloody Finance Minister János Veres announced that the abandoned government district project had paid for itself due to the appreciation of the purchased property. In other words, the big boondoggle didn’t cost anyone any money. András Cser-Palkovics, Fidesz’s #2 spokesman, (Péter Szijjártó was probably too occupied denouncing some other government initiative), said the cabinet was treating the people like idiots. If not idiots, they’re certainly hoping the people overlook a few inconvenient bits of information.
First off, even taking at face value the minister’s words, unless the property is sold, that will only potentially cover the costs of the district. Since the property has not been sold, the government is still in the hole. Furthermore, who conducted this study that showed that the government hadn’t wasted any money? The finance ministry themselves. It’s like asking little Timmy if he got his hands into the cookie jar, and then accepting his denial even though there are chocolate chips around his mouth. Forgive me for thinking that an independent assessment might be in order.
But lastly, the best part of this is not who did the study that showed the government didn’t lose money, but how it’s being used as justification for what everyone aside from the government agrees fits the definition of a boondoggle: a waste of time and money. The only “accomplishment” was that some people involved in the planning ended up with a nice paycheck, the process of which hasn’t been made public.
And the whole justification for the project? An unintended side-benefit. Nice.
Zoltán,
Yes, I also check every Monday morning with my Real Estate Agent what the current financial value is on my estates. It is always good to feel rich.
Are there any figures what the cost that was not a cost, but an income is?
Veres did it again. He proudly announces how much money we made on the government district flop. He doesn’t want to know about a few inconvenient facts.
1. It cost about 5 billion to move the MAV out of the place.
2. The property is not exactly marketable just yet. No building permit, no buyers, nothing.
I have no doubt that it will be sold, far below market value to the highest briber.
It would be interesting to see a list of properties sold by the government in the past 20 years. Who were the buyers, how much did they pay, what was the real value of the properties, and why sell land when you can collect rent on it indefinitely. What was all that money spent anyway?
3. Money wasted is money wasted. If the good folks in charge asked me before even starting the project, I could have told them it’s a stupid idea. Or was it a smart idea, distributing some public money to friends and family?
Stan: “It would be interesting to see a list of properties sold by the government in the past 20 years. Who were the buyers, how much did they pay, what was the real value of the properties, and why sell land when you can collect rent on it indefinitely.”
All but the last points are normal official info. Just go to the different Ministries and ask them.
The last point is a political one which you share with the old communists. My personal experience is that we were only able to by shops that we rented from the Local Gov’t when it was a non-MSZP lead Local Gov’t. In the BP districts I have experience from, we had to wait until the MSZP lost the election. Now you know whom to ask.
Finally, the 5 BHUF cost for MAV – did that happen at all, or just a projection?
Viking,
The figures are in the RealDeal article linked to in the post.
Viking really believes that I can
“Just go to the different Ministries and ask them.”
You missed the point again. I would like to see the actual numbers, all of them in context, not the (mis)information available for public view.
I didn’t say I want to create the list, I said it would be intereting to see one. In order to make such document we would need a lot of investigating by independent and skilled people, so it may never happen. Of course it doesn’t mean that it would not be interesting. We already know of many shady deals, we are aware of the wide-spread corruption and incompetence, so we have a pretty good idea, but not enough facts (or criminal evidence).
Stan: “I would like to see the actual numbers, all of them in context, not the (mis)information available for public view.”
Context? That must just be Estimated Sales Value, what else do you expect – ‘That it would have been better to keep it and rent it out’? That is just hot-air, ‘if’-scenarios that never was realized and therefore have no bearing on reality.
What is “actual numbers”? You knows what the State got, what is more “actual”?
“Shady deals” have existed and probably are in the works, but you expect to see them? You will see how much the State got, nothing more. Calculating the Estimated Sales Value at that time you can maybe get an opinion. The problem is just that big Assets are hard to sell and the Sell Value has normally nothing to do with the Asset Value. As usual you will just see a lot of accusations. There is no truth out there.
Thanks Zoltan, I could just not find it…
OK, the total cost was 10 BHUF, at least 7 BHUF of that went to MAV for selling their property to the State. Another way of giving MAV money, which they need to do anyway.
Just remembered the big noise Fidesz did about the sale of the Post HQ not so long ago. Then they claimed it was no problem to get 3 times (= 12 BHUF) the actual selling price.
So, if the Gov’t evaluation is close to 10 BHUF for the whole new Gov’t District, then of course that must be wrong, becaus ethe Gov’t never do anything right.
First we have Fidesz 3 times higher value + that the new Gov’t district is how many times bigger, 10 times? So we have 10*3*10 = 300 BHUF. That should be the real value then, at least for some people in Hungary.
Viking,
When (if) you sober up, read what you posted today. I think you hit bottom.
Stan,
In difference to you, I do not drink alcohol.
The day after the Gov’t sell the place for 15 BHUF, a minor MP from Fidesz will run out on the street and claim it should have been 45 BHUF.
That is how they work. Am I more right if I say it could have been sold for 60 BHUF? The critics very seldom present any type of evidence, where are the buyers who are ready to pay 2-3 times more?
Viking,
Just because the opposition may or may not overstate the extent of the damage, it doesn’t mean that the damage is not there. This government got caught red handed too many times, I don’t see any good reason for defending them.
There are no substantial facts on the sale of Post HQ, as with the New Gov’t district, that would make it correct to call it “red handed”.
The New Gov’t district, which in itself must be a Good Idea, location and execution of that idea is another thing though, probably has cost 100-200 MHUF in clearly “wasted” money so far. The rest of the 10 BHUF is not lost yet, they are there in land and plans.
Fidesz and other opponents of a New Gov’t district, normally do not speak how much it cost, incl transports between, to keep the current infrastructure alive.
After next General Election, if MSZP wins (a bit unlikely right now) they will probably revive the current plans.
If Fidesz wins they will probably build a new place somewhere else, like they did with the new National Theater, leaving a hole in the ground for the place MSZP wanted to build it.
Viking,
The Post HQ is just one example, and it’s well documented. There’s a lot more where this came from. You can chalk it up to corruption (someone got a really good deal) or incompetence (someone got a good job he’s not qulified to do).
There are other things people may find offensive.
What about spending billions on self promotion the same time when the government cannot or will not provide funds for life saving medical care for babies. The price of the new government website would be more than enugh for that.
Stan: “The Post HQ is just one example, and it’s well documented.”
Links?