What are Hungarians doing in Afghanistan?

NATO is in Afghanistan, Hungary is in NATO---or did you miss that piece of news ??

Hopefully fulfilling their obligation to NATO.

Or building a palinka distillary and sausage factory as a sign of eternal friendship between Afghans and Hungarians maybe.

I don't think Afghanistan has much use for Hungarian pork sausages. Most of them are muslims and they keep kosher.
I still have my grandma's secret recipe for poppy seed strudel. If Afghans get hooked on the stuff, there's money to be made.

We Hungarians have long been a vassal state (a fate we have in common with many of our neighbors), i.e. not having the standing to be a military and economic power unto ourselves. We are always under the influence of some greater nation or empire. Sometimes the process is involuntary (the Warsaw pact) or voluntary (NATO)-but bottom line, we occasionally have to fight on behalf of the current emperor and thereby prove our loyalty and usefulness.
So our current emperor, wants us to prove ourselves by going to Afghanistan on his behalf. He is a bit bogged down and could use the reinforcements, and so would consider this a special favor, no doubt. The rhetorical question I have to put forth is: what is the cost-benefit of this? What treasure and support will we get if we play along? Will we get to tell the emperor afterwards that he owes us big time? How much in the way of money, credits and open doors will this obtain for us? How many lost lives would be "tolerable" towards the maintenance of this relationship?

I will not posit any firm answers to these questions, because they are complex and need to be resolved through our political process. Careful with your answers, as we may be screwed either way.

Why should the US/UK carry all the burden?

@MAWAR quote Why should the US/UK carry all the burden?

Why UK/USA ? Because they went into these countries IRAQ and Afghanistan for pure world denomination for Poppy,Gas pipeline and Oil!! they recruited us into believing there lies "where there for democracy" and to destroy the Taliban, what a load of crok!
Unfortunatly being part of NATO makes us a world police force, one of there agendas to control resources around the globe. It's not rocket science mate! it's pure stinking control of RESOURCES!!

I agree, hotpaprika, tell me another thing where was the UN?
Knowing that NATO is a defunct organization and it is not structured for the 21st century, why would any itty bitty country join them?! “read my lips” and b..liar pressured them? How can any1 pressure me to go on a killing spree and join a gang in my neighborhood??
You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to determine the reason why Hungary took the initiative to join them!! Now it’s their turn, more soldiers they send the more the US/UK can pull back!! Bless them! We already had way too many die for freedom!

Re: NATO membership. I think Hungary's decision to petition for
NATO membership was made by Hungary's leaders before either
'Read My Lips' Bush or 'Manic Left Eyeball' Blair were in power.
Wrong people to blame for this one. NATO membership for
former Warsaw Pact countries was always a long term objective
of the politico/corporate sphere of influence. It was being
discussed almost as soon as the last Russian troops pulled out.
So blame Reagan/Bush Snr and Thatcher if you have to point
fingers at others.

As for the reasons for joining: search me why the boys back in
the 90's wanted to join NATO, but it might have something to do
with thinking it would protect them from big bad scary Russia.
Or maybe they just wanted to join a new set of international
clubs (EU and NATO) after the collapse of COMECON and the
Warsaw Pact. Remember, politicians need their international
gravy-trains and as well as their domestic ones.

Regarding pressure from outside being applied to encourage
NATO membership; prior to Clinton needing to distract everyone
from his affairs by bombing places, NATO membership
applications were stalling. EU pressure, mainly from the UK,
France and Germany, encouraged the process to be kickstarted
again. And nothing to do with the US needing some airfields
nearer to their targets (Kosovo and Serbia in this case).

Re: readers comments on NATO responsibilities and
Afghanistan.

At least Hungarian troops aren't involved in active combat
duties. They will be able to return to their home country
knowing that their duties were mainly concerned with securing
and rebuilding the Afghan infrastructure (a noble goal) rather
than the scores of traumatised young men and women returning
to the UK and US who have been killing and been getting killed
in the name of some half-baked 'War on Terror'. If I had the
choice I'd rather be a Hungarian soldier being posted to
Afghanistan than a British or US soldier.
We can debate whether NATO should be there, but that's
pointless now. We are there. The international community
informally sanctioned invasion in 2001 (first problem right
there, no proper mandate for action), we gave assurances that
we wouldn't just leave the new Kabul regime high and dry
(second problem, new regime full of nasties and warlords that
we pretended were nice guys to be begin with) and we've been
there ever since propping them up (is this reminding anyone of
Vietnam yet?).
And just to finish this little rant on a suitably demagogic point:
Hungary currently has less than 300 troops stationed in
Afghanistan. That's roughly 10% of the number of British troops
killed this year alone and 1% of the estimated number of civilians
killed throughout the conflict. So let's please remember who's
actually dying in our leaders' ill-conceived post colonial
adventure.

There's a large "For Sale" sign on Hungary since the Turkish occupation. We don't have real leaders only opportunistic, power-hungry traitors, willing to sell the country to anyone just get into and hang onto power. It would have been interesting to become independent, but - as expected - we just switched from one bad alliance to the other. It's pretty sad and hopeless.

NATO membership for Hungary came after Hungary participated in the war against Serbia by offering airbases and logistical support plus taking part of a peacekeeping mission in Kosovo soon afterward. NATO membership is good not because of 'big bad Russia', but because of threats from unfriendly elements in Romania, and mostly in Slovakia. The Hungarian Military would not be able to withstand the attack of any of these countries if they decided to do something like that. So NATO membership is a good thing along with the EU membership. Yes, unfortunately, Hungary pretty much had to give up almost everything in return, but at least the EU and NATO will hopefully, in the not too distant future, will finally take care of the radical anti-Hungarian Slovakian government and put a lid on anti-Hungarianism. As for Hungary is participating on the other side of the world in an imperialistic war that has nothing to do with terrorism; this assistance to the bushist government is a total disgrace. These people (George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, John Ashcroft, Carl Rove and others) should be behind bars for stealing the 2000 election, staging a fake terrorist attack that killed 3000 civilians, war crimes and genocide in Iraq and for wrecking the World economy. Hopefully, the American people would be wise enough to elect the right leader. As for the Hungarian government going along with the bushists just to get visa waivers for Hungarians.... I do not even want to comment on that.

Only one problem our defence force is international reliance, they wont recognize Trianion, the international community has always let us down, our defence forces currently a joke.. Thats why the Garda was formed by the locals because of the militaries downsize, my lord! We are nothing but puppets here, we should be part of international community but on our terms..

Looking at the last 3 comments, I'm beginning to partly understand why I've never had a hungarian top any of my classes. Danes, germans, mexicans, vietnameses, americans......... but never a hungarian. How sad.

Uncle Joe

Maybe that is because Hungarians are beginning to open their eyes ???
Maybe they don't buy YOUR US brain washing anymore ??

How sad that you should interpret everything to suit your methodology.

I see, Hungary is in Kabul on rebuilding mission/business. Keep telling yourself until you believe it! Once you are in you can’t pick and choose, sooner or later you will get into combat “mission”!! The EU meetings should recommend ending wars in Iraq, Afghanistan to begin with, and send our kids home!!
Ministers blah blah "....we can see the light at the end of the tunnel...." they are the "lucky" ones who are not able to see that this is the light of the fast coming toward train.
After NATO’s incompetence in Iraq and Afghanistan will it be Africa? Or ww3? Bring it on and let’s get it over with! … IMHO, no1 on this earth will survive to scream “WE WON”!!!

@Ricsi - It's not surprising that you are making the excuse that Hungarians are opening their eyes when they are not able to excel. I sincerely hope my students do not share your logic and mediocrity. Hungary cannot afford that. I am not american.

Uncle joe

So enlighten me !
What is that you teach that Hungarians are so inferior in ???
I apologise for assuming you are from the US--your rhetoric and your ambivalence towards previous comments led me to assume so !! please enlighten me on this also ??

Ricsi- The subject matter and my nationality are not important (unless I was teaching Hungarian or English). It's sufficient to say that there are little or no historical or political elements in my subject matter. I don't believe hungarians are inferior, but I'm concerned that having a paranoid, xenophobic, or suspicious mentality as you (hot paprika, roamer & stan) have sometimes espoused, could hold them back in other areas eg education. I sincerely hope that a prior failure to excel was not due to them having similar views, and restricted logical faculties. I'm still hopeful this time round.
No apologies needed. Your wrong conclusions are understandable given your point of view.

dear Uncle Joe, seems you are related to the Sophisticated monkey Clan..

Dear Hot Paprika - you're also wrong. I'm not Hungarian.

@UJOE
To be honest i dont care what or who you are or why you are even wasting your monkey life on this website or in general , you have no constructive comments. GET A Life..

@Hot Paprika - I have a life! Monkey baiting is just a hobby.

Now that we are in it, what do we do with NATO membership? Leave aside the question of why we joined, or whether it was a sound decision. The fact is, we are in it now, and there isn't much likelihood that we will be leaving anytime soon. So what to do?
I would humbly suggest we make the most of it! Once we have hitched ourselves to that money/technology/military machine- why not use it to build up our industrial capacity, modernize our military and spend and bank some of the swag that other members will be spending with us? I want for us to look at the situation pragmatically. It's very hard for the Hungarians, who have had such a tragic history, and who have been so unsuccessful in past wars, to view membership in a military alliance as a "golden opportunity"! The Anglo Saxon people (or rather their leaders) see these arrangements as means for economic stimulus (defense spending), new technology spinoffs, boosting of business profits and job creators. Such grand thinking doesn't come easily to us poor Magyars, who have lost a few too many battles for our self confidence to be fully intact I'm afraid.
We will be asked to do things from time to time that we may not be in the fullest agreement with. For that we have the democratic process. Leaving the alliance is probably not a practical option for us. We will always have to mindfully weigh what is wanted of us, versus the lost opportunity cost of not working with the other members and getting some of their money!

Farkas L

Thanks for entering into the debate with a very reasoned argument,I would reluctantly agree with you except to say that leaving NATO is not only not practical now,but almost certainly NOT POSSIBLE !
Such are the conditions when you are allowed to be "invited" into a pact.

For you Conspiracy-theorists (or should it be terrorists?):
A NATO member does not need to do anything if it does not want to do it, even if another NATO member is attacked. They should only consider to do something, so it is totally free to join any mission or not. Hungary did not need to go to Afghanistan, even if it is a NATO-mission. Iraq has yet not become a NATO mission.

Of course NATO makes for cheaper/lower costs for defence in Europe and that is for me the big problem. We learn the Europeans that defence can be cheap, when we instead should strengthen our own defense with a EU Defense Force, an independent member of NATO. The EU should be able defend themselves (and pay for it). Possible alliances is another question.

@Viking

OMG you believe we have a say in our deployment in NATO destinations? I think your the one living the Conspiracy!!

hotpaprika: "OMG you believe we have a say in our deployment in NATO destinations?"

Who has then? Try to read the Treaty before login.

If you did not know it:
- Germans are not allowed to be in Combat Units, just Support Units. (Bad image and memories from the WWs)

- Italians only go to places with Beutiful Women.

- French demands good local wine and that no US Officer tells them what to do.

- The US does on its own, does not want to play with the others. Can allow that though, if they are only the highest ranking officers, so they can boss everyone, especially the French, around.

- Hungary only wants to do the Medical and Training thing, so they have personal trained for the 3 yearly riots in Budapest.