Leányfalu Mayor Csaba Nyíri has ordered all European Union flags to be removed from public buildings of the Pest County town to express his disapproval that the EU has not gotten involved in the “Slovak textbook scandal”, writes origo.hu, based on a Magyar Nemzet report. “Displaying the European flag is not mandatory, so we are protesting attacks against Hungarians by removing them,” said Nyíri, pictured left. Hate to think of what is policy is towards people flying Slovak flags…
Mayor orders EU flags down over Hungarian-Slovak textbook flap
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Fantastic, about time people start challanging the EU, hopefully this will become a trend!
Got to agree with him–what good is the EU really to Hungary ??
They throw some bones and we sign away all our laws,constitution,and destroy our own identity.
Sorry, got to disagree with you chaps. The EU has co-financed a lot of projects in Hungary, including infrastructure development, educational and social programs. Unfortunately the corrupt and bureaucracy-heavy local and national governments manage to steal and waste vasts amounts of these funds. A good example of this is the unfolding fiasco in Pécs (European City of Culture 2010) and the utter waste and misappropriation of EU funding (EU funds are providing the majority of the cash for Pécs’ year in the spotlight).
I think the real question isn’t what the EU does for Hungary, but what does Hungary do for the EU.
(I am referring to the Hungarian powers-that-be here, not the Hungarian people).
I support and applaud Mayor Nyiri’s act and position.
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Nyiri is using the EU symbol for his own symbolic stance. There is nothing wrong with using and taking advantage of the EU in any way, as long as it’s legal and benefits us. This can be anything from making an important point to having others subsidize us and our development.
In Europe, only Russia has the standing to eschew military and economic alliances with the West, given that it has the size, resources and military industrial complex with which to ensure it’s true independence. All others, including us, seem destined to be dependencies. True Hungarian independence ended centuries ago.
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The treaty of Trianon continues to have karmic blowback! The receptor nations, like Slovakia and Romania, hold on to their gains somewhat uneasily. It doesn’t take much to make them paranoid does it? A road in Romania, schoolbooks in Slovakia, and viola, you have tension and ill feeling! They have good reason to worry, as the Magyars are geopolitically best positioned to dominate the Carpathian basin. They fear that “They are coming back”, in one way or another. (Why not pull in our favors someday with the EU and ask for plebiscite in these areas?!) I don’t care who we have to suck up to or how, as long as we can get support for the revision of our frontiers!
@Demagogue
At what price are we paying for EU when they dont give a dam about Hungarian culture and support an ideology which is decaying the Hungarian nation.. The EU dosent recognise what happened in Trianon and this story is a classic example. We would be better off independant and not have to waste our energy on the shadow EU with it’s compliance to change our nation into a Liberal gay cultural state..Sorry for the extreme example! this is where the west will come for there entertainment, also like the Mexicans to to the USA, slave labor.. We need a cultural revolution to reinstate true values that will benefit Hungarians first..
hotpaprika: “The EU dosent recognise what happened in Trianon”
WTF should they? It happened way before EU was formed. EU has no opinion on the fact that Sweden lost what is today Northen Poland, the Baltic States, part of Russia, Finland and Norway. You do not hear us crying, though. We have grown up. Time for you cry-babies to do that also!
@Viking
The EU has no sense of Justice!! If they would be honest and recognise the real version of History and not recognise the bullshit our neighbouring countries are educating there population and trying also to educate the Hungarians with there Historical lies!! You think the EU is that niave not to know what happened during the Trianon ?? They know, and unless they recognise the facts of history and stand by the truth then they can go to hell, exactly where they are leading Europe.. And EU support the Holahoax!! Now that is the biggest fairytale since Snow white and the seven dwarfs! Mate the EU days are numbered, Viking wake up from your Dream.. and start living reality!
hotpaprika: “The EU has no sense of Justice”
The EU is just a bunch of NationalStates, so it is just the agreed understanding between all existing members. If Malta does not want to make a declaration over Trianon nothing will happen.
Slovakia, Romania, Serbia will always vote against. France is happy with the situation, even your God, Le Penn thinks Trianon is good. So what are you expecting?
You just mixing the cards and using this as anti-EU propaganda, nothing else. It is just on an embarising low-level. Typical populistic BS.
Good to see that the EUCCP is failing….
I thought the EU was there to show a united front.
As soon as there’s a crisis, or their troops are expected to go into front line action in Afghanistan, the continental nations all bottle out.
What’s the use of the EU, I sometimes wonder, when they say one thing, and then go home to do what they can to save their own banks, economy etc….
Where is a united strategic plan? – They make you eat /word-by-word/ their Constitution w/o engaging ppl to vote on? of course they made it 257 pages long, ordinary, working folks have no time to study the $hit. This is not democracy!
So, you see someone on this venting board is right “EU days are numbered” unless the eurocRATS /living in a dreamland/ will involve the people living in reality land!!
@Demagogue
There is no free meal. The price we pay for the
“Eu co-financed” things, have way too steep price
tag! I think we should just recycle all those
zooropean rugs! Btw, who’s interest to have quick
transfer trough Hungary? Surly not ours…
mawar: “Where is a united strategic plan?”
There is no and why should it be? Only in dictatorships you have “a united strategic plan”. Look on today’s topic how Hungary should handle the finacial crisis – Will there be any “united strategic plan”? Of course not, there will be some different alternatives, which will be followed differently by different players during the years to come. Orban wants a “new economy” (whatever that is?), he hardly will get that.
If we go back to this point – What are the expectations EU should do? EU is not a SuperBody that flies around Europe and check every textbook. It can come up in different legal and political EU bodies *if* someone makes a complaint. Obviously this has not happened.
Also the discussed textbooks have still not materialized so ‘no crime to punish’ yet.
Finally, the places have names in at least 2 different languages, maybe some of them have more. It is hardly a ‘crime’ to use any of them, regardless language. Bratislava is called Bratislava by everyone except Hungarians. In Hungarian you have another name for it, but it is still known in the world as Bratislava. What is wrong to call a ‘spade’ a ‘spade’?
@Viking
It is a typical Stereotypical western thinking,
knowing nothing about an area but “spread the
wisdom” without even thinking…
Point one: The text books are out so there are
“crime”, most Hungarian school in Neoslavia
already sent them back… so get informed before
making a point…
Point two: Pozsony, has also a German name
Pressburg, the orignal Slovak name (actually
names)) were Pozun and Prosporok (obviously
degraded from the Hungarian and German versions)).
Bratislava were invented in the 19th century, when
the Great Moravian Empire was invented, I just
cannot understand how an empire could be great
without leaving a ruins or at least cemeteries
behind… Anyway Pozsony was the capital of
Hungary and the seat of the Parliament.Those New
Slavs did not even took the effort to build one,
they just picked somebody else worn out one…
And point three what difference it makes how the
“world” (better known as west) knows Pozsony? In
Hungarian it will remain Pozsony. If it makes the
slavs uncomfortable, than they can make the effort
to build a capital, I think Trencin would be a
great city for that))))
Robi, work of art !! Thanks for whistling the same tune, I wish there were more people that would defend the truth, appreciate your comments.. I have noticed more people are questioning then before, which is a start..
@hotpaprika
Well, not liking the slavs and other foreigners does not make me bend to the radical nationalists.
I’m a once liberal turned to be an anarchyst.
Still I agree this is the time when SOME
radicalism needed. Hungary needs to emphasize it’s
rights, and protect it’s minorities on the stolen
lands around us. This affair could be a good
casus belli to make a referendum over the issue to
get Hungary out of EU. but being a Patriot does
not mean that “skins” are tolerable! They are just
as inferior as the gypos, colors or slavs. I do
not mind Jews, since they are white and
contributed to our culture (and in central Europe
every family with a long enough history has a drop
of blood.))I’d even prefer the Arabs and the Islam
over the American weird so called Christian
“thing”. Even the slav Orthodoxy is better then
those yelling black cattle LOL. And I also think
that Hungary have to revise double citizenship.
Make those people choose!
Good to see my comment got everyone fired up.
But instead of bashing the EU continually (a common practice in both of the two countries I claim as home) why is no-one debating how to improve Hungary’s use of the EU.
Hungarian central and local governments only applied for roughly two-thirds of the possible European Social Fund and European Regional Development Fund they could apply for in 2006 (last year where figures are available). Nearly every other country in the EU applied for all of the money they could claim. This is not the EU ‘cheating’ Hungary, but more like the incompotent knuckle draggers in charge, at local and national level, ‘cheating’ Hungarians by not applying for all the cash available and then squandering/stealing it. That’s the real issue here.
For more information about the ongoing scandal regarding Pecs, please see the video posted last week on index. This is definately a story that should be championed and shouted about, Pecs council’s complete incompetance/corruption in the use and allocation of the funds provided for the ECOC 2010.
@Robi. Thank you for restoring my faith in Hungarian patriots. It’s good to hear that some Hungarians know the difference between patriotism and nationalism. But I must ask you, what is this price that Hungary has paid to be part of the EU? Please elaborate.
@everyone: everytime you hurl abuse at another person you devalue your own argument. As Confucius said, he who needs to shout has lost the argument already.
Robi: “The text books are out”
Correct, I saw that later in another article. Does not though change the main question – Why blame the EU for this?
Exactly what are your expectations on the EU on this – They should send in German Stormtroopers that burn every book (not that they miss experience in that)?
You are normally the first ones who claim that the EU should not interfere with local politics, so why do you want to have a EU Super-State suddenly?
And what stops Hungarian troops to invade Slovakia and fix a ‘final solution’? Sanity?
For you who think you can go out of the EU, please look up that paragraph, it is not there. Same thing with the Euro, you can only join in.
On this occasion, I have to agree with Viking–Once you are in ,you stay in –no get out clause .
The only way out is for the whole rotten,corrupt edifice to collapse from inside.
The question is…would the EU collapse at one go, or would some rotten members collapse first? If it’s the second scenario, what should the EU do?
Speaking hypothetical – How do you define the collapse of a country/national-state?
No country in the EU is close to collapse, you have to look at countries like Albania, Moldavia, Afghanistan and Iraq to come close.
Stupid hungarian so-called patriots, care about economy not the carpathian basin, hehe
stupid “anonymous” –
We care about BOTH, read the other threads in this blog and learn , he he
@Viking – How would I define collapse? I really dont know. The question was directed at Ricsi who envisioned the corrupt EU collapsing. Although it was difficult to visualise, I felt that from what I could observe, Hungary was in a worse shape than the EU (politically, socially and economically). So it is also probable that Ricsi’s idea of a “collapse” could happen here first in Hungary. Hence my question, as to what the EU should do?
I might be stupid, but it’s always better than to be a biased intelligent.
In order to be objective in a matter, which is solely an issue of Slovak innner politics, you should differentiate between an inner political party struggle (SNS-MKP) and bilateral foreign policy.
MKP was in government for 8 years,they governed two and three ministries (Euromoney problems reversed) there is a University in Komarno (Komarom, as you might know it)which is paid solely from slovak budget, there is kindergarden to university hungarian education system, how could you say Slovaks are not tolerant?
I can tell you that actually our hungarians students comming from this school system are having problems to go to other universities(faculties) then Komarno and Nitra, just because they are having problems with their bilinguality.
So please reconsider if a certain knowledge of a country’s language is not necessary for your full developement as a person in a one country’s system.
Or will you give em am stipends to hungarian universities, at the expense of your intrinsic hungarian students?
You see the issue is more complex
Anonymous and The truth is grey,not b/w
You are one and the same ???? I am confused.
You are right to point out the complexity of the situation,indeed life in general in the Carpathian Basin is most complex .
it’s all me the shameless bastard, actually the halfs and quarters of me, the stupid reactionist half, racionale half, quarter hungarian blood part, threequarters slovak one and all that mixed into few insane comments, complex what?
Anonymous—
Well at least you have got a sense of humour,I admire that,even if it is a little too “complex” sometimes !!
Understood!!! NO strategic plans, general plans, order, responsibility, accountability NOTHING!! That would be dictatorship?!! Well if that what it takes, do it because you will need to have all of the above!!
Or consider this: “It will not be any European statesman who will unite Europe: Europe will be united by the Chinese.”– Charles André Joseph Marie de Gaulle
Wonder!!
Furthermore, I don’t expect the German army to issue a demand to the Slovakian government, nor do I want the EU to bud in any internal decision making process, but they should have some kind of a guide line!
mawar: “Europe will be united by the Chinese”
Exactly what I been saying for many years, but I also count in the Russians. The problem with Europe is that to many people, like the imports like ricsi and hotpaprika, always look at what divides us, not what unite us. By doing so the open not just the back-door, but also every door and window, for External Influence to come in and control Europe.
Of course big powers like the US, Russia and China love our resident racists and ‘dividers among nationalistic line’ to keep the European continent divided and not united, like China, the US and Russia – each one of them acting as one power on the world scene.
But we must understand that these big powers (the US, Russia and China) have their fair share of internal division, ethnical diversity and sometimes violent clashes, but no one thinks about that in general terms. Fo Europe we still see the different countries, not the EU, or the United States of Europe (USE), more correct.
When the latter happens, then you can claim that USE has a responsibility en every textbook issue all over the continent.
One can ask oneself what is the use of “some kind of a guide line” if there are no penalties connected to not following the said guide lines.
@ Viking
We need to look at the root cause of our division, it’s not people at our level, we are manipulated by the Zionists, The right wing parties are aware of this and thats what the Zion jews are fearing, we need to re-establish the truth of our last century of historical events.. And the longer the truth is not realesed the longer we will be divided as a Human race.. Just a handful of rich Elite are controlling our destiny in Europe and the world..
i think we should be able to keep our national characteristics well within EU if we want but still act unified when necessary. I don’t think anyone seriously can claim that France has got any more less French even though it has been in EU 50 years or so (and for some… unfortunately). In terms of languages, it beats me why we make things so diffucult here in CEU (in this case Slovakia). In lot of European countries (like Spain) they use local languages for names with spanish names etc. Also in Finland (which has two official languages for 5 million people) we use swedish names in swedish text, finnish names in finnish text, if there is two languages used in any specific town/city etc signs etc are in both languages. I don’t recall ever hearing any kind of debate about this – it is most natural way. Why to make even fuss about it? We need to accept historical facts as they will not disappear even if we don’t like them…
hotpaprika: “we need to re-establish the truth of our last century of historical events”
OK, by doing that “Just a handful of rich Elite are controlling our destiny in Europe and the world”, would just disappear, like thin air – Right?
How would, even reversing Trianon, change the future of Europe, or even the World, as you are claiming?
Maybe if Trianon would not have happened today’s Financial Crisis would also not have happened, because people would have seen the “Truth”? OMG what a …?
Thanks ‘ile’ for some coherent thoughts in this onslaught of madness.
@Viking
It’s a complex task to unravel what the damage the EU and Zionists have created, over a century and going back to the French Revelution of lies!! but yes we require a new reform or in other words a total revolution to repair the damage, and begining with Trianon is an excellent idea..
Why patch up the EU, it sux!! we require to scrap it!!
Of course the French have maintained there culture because they are influenced by the Rothchilds who helped finance the French Revolution, the beginings of the illuminati..
Im for a New World! a Global revolution of awareness, this will begin to fix the Friggen damage the Elite and World banks have shamelessly created around the world..
ile–
What you are saying is true,down here we have of course multiple signs for villages and towns if a place as a sizeable German or Croatian minority for example, we also have German language schools and a Croat language school,as well as dedicated Roma schools. It as never been an issue in Hungary but our neighbours continue to try to make a problem because they know they occupy land that used to be Hungarian and certainly in the proximity of the border regions is still majority Magyar populated,they fear a Nationalist trend and so try to eradicate or forcibly integrate the populations.
Our Swedish friend is a little too spoilt by mass immigration in his homeland and can not see the resulting destruction of his national identity–or perhaps he can,which is why he chooses to reside in Hungary,but can not bring himself to acknowledge this,instead he resorts to verbal insults and childish name calling.
Such are the people we share our lives with !!
@ile, Ricsi and anyone else interested in the ongoing minority language debate. Greetings from the dude who actually grew up in a relatively true multi-cultural society, the West Midlands of the UK – I was one of only three white (and only two British honky) kids in my class and I can still swear in Punjabi all these years later.
Thank you guys, I’ve been saying this for ages (the bi-lingualism bit). I just don’t get why enabling linguistic minorities to have full access is such an issue down these ways (well OK I do, history, Trianon, Pan-Slavism and all that, but I still think it’s childish how folks make it so difficult for each other).
@the truth is grey, not b/w. Excellent point too. Enabling a minority to retain their mother-tongue can cause problems, especially at higher education level. I can only comment on this from a UK perspective, using the Welsh language as an example. Most native Welsh speakers (especially in West Wales) generally have to make a conscious decision during their education to use the bilingual education system to improve their English to a level of competance concurrent with their peers if they want to compete in the wider job market later. Some decide that they don’t, and are stuck with living in areas with high numbers of Welsh speakers (West Wales mainly). Of course, most don’t and continue onwards. So similar issues faced by any minority language speaker in the EU, do they want to broaden their reach or cut themselves off?
“Stupid hungarian so-called patriots, care about economy not the carpathian basin, hehe
Anonymous”
A poignant but inelegantly expressed opinion. A good reminder to us all, that real national power and strength has to have an economic basis. It is the foundation of political power and influence as well. There is no domination of the Carpathian basin for the Hungarians, without it! Suppose the Slovaks, Serbs and Romanians started to exceed us in the GDP count? What if they were better connected politically? What if their militaries were more modern than ours?
Suppose we were to approach the EU and the UN Security council members, right now, with a request for a “little favor”: a plebiscite in Hungarian ethnic areas in Slovakia, Vojvodina and Romania? My guess is that such a request would go nowhere. Why? We lack the economic, political and military clout and influence to make it happen. We would have to influence Russia, China and France in particular, who otherwise would likely side with the Trianon beneficiaries.
We will have to spend the next 30 years, oh so brilliantly, in building up our wealth, our military and political influence with the great powers.
I am one Hungarian patriot who can think as a Machiavellian, pragmatist and realist. I accept “Anonymous’” post as a challenge rather than an insult.
Fárkas Lászlo— Why not care about both ???? You can’t have one without the other , agree with your idea about stronger ties with new Russia, not sure China is a good idea,and certain France is of no use to us !
Demagogue—- Tell me about it ! I worked for many years in Bradford-you can’t get more multi-cultural than that,I was there right through the riots and the aftermath.
Oh dear, I DO want it all!
The problem with France and China is that they are on the Security Council, the upper echelon of the UN. Without a UN rubberstamp, our boundaries cannot be revised peacefully, through the ballot box and with international recognition. A forceful takeover, without international support, is not a realistic option. We lack strong patrons, and we don’t have much at the present time with which to “buy” the approval of Russia, China and France on this sensitive matter. That’s what the next 30 years are going to be about.
We are down, but not out! Remember we are the “Revolving door” people- we are supposed to be so clever that we follow someone into a revolving door and come out ahead of them! Taking care of our long term interests will require just that level of smarts. Regarding our intelligence, I look forward to proving Anonymous wrong on that account!
@Ricsi. Gotta love those 80′s race riots haven’t you
In the Black Country our main non-European minorities are Sikhs & Hindus from India and Caribbeans (Jamaicans and Barbadans mainly). We had the same race relation problems back then but luckily Indian Sikhs and Hindus are usually more integration minded than the poorly educated Muslim subsisdence farmers/textile workers from northern Pakistan or Bangladesh (the majority of South Asian descended immigrants in Bradford, Leicester @ East London I beleive). Personally I loved growing up in a predominately non-white area, it taught me more than if I had just grown up in a little village somewhere. I never felt under threat of losing my own identity (Welsh father and Cockney mother) and just got on with enjoying the ride, eating excellent food and learning to say ‘goatfucker’ in Punjabi. I also went to a brilliant primary school that celebrated all the differences between it’s pupils as well as the similarities (which meant we didn’t just do the classic Xmas, Easter and Harvest festivals, but also Chinese New Year, Orthodox Christian Xmas and New Year, Eid ul Fitr, Dawali, Holi, Vaisakhi and Vesak (Buddha Day). At a recent school reunion all of us who went there all commented on how great it had been and how the PC brigade and religious extremists and isolationists (like in Bradford) were fucking up ‘our’ multi-culturalism by creating barriers rather than bridges.
Multi-culturalism does work. I am testiment to that fact.
@Farkas Laszlo. You’re absolutely right. You’re a man with a plan I can tell. I’d like to know more of your ideas for addressing the unfairness of Trianon.
My 2 forints worth: If Hungarians want to regain control of Hungary’s pre-Trianon territories then the approach has to be pragmatic, realistic and certainly Machiavellian. But I’d remind folks that they have to be careful who they make deals with. We all remember the sad consequences that resulted from the last time a Hungarian government made deals with larger foreign powers to acquire control over the ‘lost’ territories. That cannot be repeated. Therefore, as you rightly point out, the approach has to be more considered, long term and maybe not even connected with changing national boundaries, but instead concentrated on encouraging free movement of trade and people accross the borders and full minority access in all fields of society (in all countries, including in Hungary – e.g I am not considered a minority ethnic, even though I’m always being told I’ll never be Hungarian, because for official ‘minority’ status the group has to be resident in Hungary for 100 years first. This also applies to more obvious groups like the Russians, Greeks, Cubans, Chinese, Nigerians and Arabs who arrived here in the 20th century – none of us are ‘officially’ minorities, according to the govt civil servants I asked about this, because we haven’t been here for a 100 years).
Just suppose the Hungarians in Vojvodina/Bacska have had enough of the whole Serbo-Yugo thing and wanted out. (Not a very far out scenario!) What if they were calling for secession or reunification with Hungary, or a partition? What would we be up against in getting something like this to work in our favor?
Let’s look at the UN Security Council and it’s five permanent members: US, UK, France, China and Russia.
US and UK: entirely bribable based upon how useful and congenial we are to their corporate interests. We may also have to serve as their mercenaries and proxies in “peace-keeping” missions in God only knows what places. The Anglo Saxons are very predictable once you know what makes them tick.
France: Has deep linguistic and racial ties with Romania, and past war ties with both Serbia and Romania. Trying to placate the French is like trying to make a cat laugh- not very easy to do! How much in the way of French goods will we have to buy, or what sucking up to their political leaders will we have to do to get anywhere here?
China: entirely a merchantile nation; to get anywhere with them one has to buy a lot of their goods. Has supported the Serbs in the past.
Russia:feels deep racial ties with the Serbs. To gain traction with both the US and Russia would be a very difficult balancing act. What a lot of their weapons and raw materials we would have to buy to be taken seriously by Moscow!
The Vojvodina issue must make our neighbors very paranoid!
@Demagogue – Maybe if you included all your previous lives, you might make the century:-)
In any case, I would also like to hear Laszlo’s plan for how he would propose settle Trianon. His strategy sounds sensible, logical, and strategic, and I wish more Hungarians would think like him.
One obstacle I see – the UNSC has no authority to conduct/undertake or even recommend a plebiscite without the approval of the country in question. Romania and Slovakia are not likely to agree. Also, UNSC would not want to have referendums in Tibet, Taiwan, Xinjiang, Chechnya for obvious reasons.
Hello Demagogue,
When we talk about minority rights in this context, I see it on two levels.
To play the role of aggrieved minority works for us Magyars, because so many of our kin were marginalized in the boundary revisions following the two world wars. This is a “squeaky wheel” issue, i.e. the squeaky wheel gets the “grease”. Modern Euro liberalism and PC reacts reflexively to complaints by minorities and underdogs. It suits us to play the victim/martyr before the liberal, multi-cultural leaning EU administration. (How much squeaking the Magyar wheel will have to emit before the “grease” is applied is an interesting issue.)
The other thing about minorities is that their emergence seems to be an inevitable by-product of a nation becoming sufficiently rich and economically advanced. Attain to the GDP levels of a UK, and you will be over-run by people from all over the world, wanting in. The more successful the Hungarian state becomes, the more you are going to see immigrants from places you never used to hear from in this part of the world. Success does carry with it a price.
Hi KEF,
The UN Security Council can’t force the revision of our frontiers, but they can add the touch of international approval and legitimacy to the “facts on the ground”. The issue of which country Hungarians in Slovakia, Serbia and Romania ultimately belong to, has to be forced there, locally. The Council members are not exactly paper tigers, and do have a lot of behind the scenes influence with our neighbors. If they were sufficiently caught in a bind between a restive Hungarian minority AND big power pressure, our neighbors would be hard up against it.
I say the weakest link in that trio is Serbia. They currently do not enjoy the best international reputation, are not members of the EU or NATO and so are not protected by the EU clause that prohibits members from raising irredentist claims against their neighbors. The plight of the Hungarian minority there is something that we can work with in the future. A Vojvodina revision would serve as a precedent for other territorial changes.
There is no stopping us! Our neighbors know it, and that is why there is so much tension over every little thing!
I appreciate the respectful reception of my ideas and thoughts.
As a coda to the Trianon issue, and in response to KEF’s question of what my plan would be, let me offer one more concrete suggestion.
We could stop looking at our territorial losses as “Lost” or “Stolen” territories (which they were of course!), but rather as territories for us in the present and future tense to be re-acquired. We should be buying up every available piece of real estate, every bit of farmland, every house and factory that we can get our hands on in the disputed territories.
If an EU member like Romania puts restrictions on us buying in, then we can complain to the EU until the Romanians have to change the law. Once we are free to buy in these places, we should be doing so.
“Possession is nine tenths of the law”, as the Americans so love to think. It reflects their optimistic view that 90% of life’s problems are automatically solved with money and ownership. Large scale Hungarian ownership of land and buildings in our neighboring countries is a vital precursor to any change to the political map. It would also empower us to start buying off their political class and getting them to work towards our interests.
Hungarians should begin to pool their money in real estate trusts, ready to buy back large portions of what we once controlled.
Happy shopping!
Fárkas
I understand where you are coming from ,but just 2 quick points-
1– Serbia as a big ally-Russia with a seat on the UN and a major supplier of resources to Hungary-cold winters in Hungary for the sake of Vojvodina ???
2–Buyback what was lost/stolen-your idea is sound but it is kind of like saying if someone steals my Mercedes I have to buy it back from him ??? I do not think many will find that appealing !
Good to see you are thinking though !! Well done.
Hi Ricsi,
Point 1, Russia and Serbia- it’s a sticky wicket for us isn’t it? There the “revolving door” cleverness will have to come into play over the next few decades regarding our relations with Russia. I didn’t say it would be an easy issue for us, but not insurmountable, as the Serbs are internally vulnerable. Long run, the Serbs could be in trouble here, Russia or no Russia.
Point 2, If we have been thrown out through the “front door”, I say we come back in through the window or rear entrance. NOT owning the real estate in the outer territories, will not help us would it? It would just make us outsiders. Once our neighbors realize that we own most of eveything around them, then they will start to get used to the idea of us being in their lives, in more ways than one. Once we own enough of their assets, we can own their politicians and political systems as well. The “old Hungarians” got their Benz stolen and the theft internationally recognized. We are the “new Hungarians”, we don’t get discouraged, and we don’t quit!
I wish to grind down our opponents with persistence, cunning and strategy. If it takes another 30 to 50 years, so be it. Nothing is etched in stone, and we can’t be permanently screwed.
Interesting that you all missed the most important player of them all – the EU.
The recognition of Kossovo was a misstake and I believe all of EU has understood that now.
Before Farkas Laszlo’s 30 years have gone, Serbia has become a EU member. With further intergration and the rise of something that really can be called the United States of Europe, a better integration happens.
I have no illusion that you guys appreciate that, when you are still stuck in your ideas that we should live like the old Arpads.
It would be ideal in a way if national, linguistic and territorial differences didn’t come into play. It would be nice if there were no frictions based upon the past, or if boundaries didn’t matter.
That’s not the reality we live in, in the Danube basin. You can’t get rid of the past so easily here, and there are scores to settle. Look at our neighbors in these news releases, the anxiety that a proposed connecting highway produces in Romania, the tensions in relations with Slovakia. I feel these are inevitable in light of the past. Our neighbors get to fly their flag over disputed territory, but uneasily.
In 30 years time, who knows about Serbia or the EU? What I want to know is, where will the Vojvodina Hungarians be 30 years hence? Will they get to have the magical right of “self determination”? Can they choose their destiny? Should they stick with the Serbs, even if they don’t want to? What should be the stance of the Hungarian govt if they ask for secession, or if the Serbs unleash another wave of ethnic violence against them?
Finally, why should we accept the status quo? I’m not a fatalist, but an opportunist. When these issues really and truly no longer matter, then we can all bury the hatchet and hold hands. Until then, blood, language, territory and history DO matter.
F.L: “In 30 years time, who knows about Serbia or the EU?”
Who knows about Hungary?
F.L.: “Finally, why should we accept the status quo?”
The development of the EU into the USoE can hardly be called “status quo”, it will change regional and local conflicts, but it will not totally remove them. Only the partners involved can do something about the reasons for the conflict. “Stolen” land will still be “stolen”, but the disappearance of national borders, free movement, same currency, harmonised tax legislation (VAT is a step forward), will change the way how communities on opposite sides on a previous border can interact.
Of course not every one will be positive or even try to enjoy the new freedom (which of course have some responsibilities connected to it). Let us take the inclusion of the Hungarian and Slovakia into Schengen and the easier access over the border between the countries – in what sense have that made life worse in general for the people living on both sides of the borders? Is more restrictions on travel and trade what we should have or more openness?
Hi Viking,
There are both tendencies at work, one towards integration, such as what they EU embodies, and the opposite tendencies, which are driven by nationalism. Nationalistic worries and concerns are an overiding consideration still, and have a shelf life that can run into the decades, even centuries. Here I’m being a realist with you.
The Common Market and EU evolved in Western Europe. The countries of the Danube basin have had a different evolutionary history. I would have liked it better if the Danubians would have come upon their own common market, through mutual understanding and trust. When we join and ape the EU, we are taking on an evolutionary process that we are only now beginning to share in. In the 1950′s and 60′s, when Germany and France finally realized cooperation was better than conflict, we in this end of Europe were still unwilling Soviet satellites.
How do Hungary and Romania achieve this seamless cooperation? Talk about building a highway connecting the two nations, and one fears that the resulting economic traffic and commercial life will benefit the other and pave the way towards territorial revision. Eliminating this fear and distrust is not easy, when you have so many Hungarians on their side of the border. People fear letting go; it often is a very expensive (or unprecedented) attitude in our part of the world!
F.L.: “People fear letting go”
True! We see the same thing between Austria and Hungary also. What was the local Austrian reaction some time ago when Hungary joined Schengen?
Fright and scare mongering, very much fuelled by Nationalists that are hailed as heroes by some posters on this website. Hungarians were depicted as evil ‘grasshoppers that will jump the border and destroy everything’. Some local Austrian border-villages even blocked roads to stop all these ‘filthy Hungarians’ to have easy access to the ‘nice white’ Austria.
We normally count Austria as belonging to the ‘West’, so the same fair exist there also. In my own home-country Sweden, as in the UK and France there were negative comments/opinions about letting Hungary in to the EU (our jobs will disappear to those cheap workers). Some workplaces actually did, so of course some of the comments were factual correct, but if those workplaces would not have disappeared to Hungary, they would have moved somewhere else. The problem was not Hungary’s inclusion into the EU, it was more a problem with the Swedish/French/whatever Economy.
In the end I believe that for countries like Hungary, Slovakia and Romania, the positive effects to belong to the EU will overshadow the actual or projected bad effects. But everything takes time, especially in rural communities that never seen fast progress as a ‘good’ thing.
Hungarians could of course help by taking an anti-Hungarista stand and forget superiority.
@ Laszlo – Thanks for your explanation on how you would settle Trianon. It is indeed an admirable strategic plan which, if executed, has a better probability of success than any other plan I have heard in Hungary or in these posts.
Personally, I feel that the success probability is in single digit percentages (but still better than all the rest). My doubt stems from 2 aspects.
i. as viking said, things change over 30 years. Hungary 30, 20, or even 10 years ago had a different mindset and priorities even if Trianon still lingered in their minds. I expect this is to change with the times and the economic & political landscape not just in Europe, but across the world. The only thing I really expect is for more foreigners to be in Hungary, and more successful Hungarians to leave Hungary (mainly because of language ability and opportunities).
ii. the ability of Hungarians to invest in a real estate fund on a massive scale to recoup even 1-2% of Trianon through legal purchase would be an enormous burden (also sounds like the early Zionist approach to Palestine). In 98, Koreans sacrificed their personal money, jewellery to save their country. Till now, I have not observed Hungarians in general willing to make any personal economic sacrifices for a community level improvement, even more so for an extended period. This may seem a sweeping statement, but I cannot quote any example of such a mindset or circumstance. Perhaps you can give a example this.
@Laszlo – an an addendum to the movement issue which I mentioned. The Hungarians who live in the trianon areas, do not have the same limitation of mobility and choices imposed on the earlier generations. In the modern world(in 2 decades, we have seen millions of people getting the ability to move away from their home countries. It is possible that over the 30-50 years, these Trianon Hungarians may yet move away from the Trianon areas to other parts of Serbia, Hungary, or other EU countries in substantial numbers for economic or even political reasons. Vice versa for others moving to Trianon areas. Such a migration would further reduce Hungary’s claim on the region .
Having said this, your plan does give Hungary some needed economic and political strategic direction. Even if the “buyback” doesn’t materialise, I think Hungary would be a better place and in a much stronger position regionally if Hungarians could stick with making sacrifices for such a unified plan for 30-50 years.
Hello everyone,
I am very pleased with this discussion so far, and it is vital, because the subject “has legs” ( i.e. longevity and endurance) It will outlast us all- I guarantee it. Also encouraging is the supportive feedback. We may be making a difference here.
I take the very paradoxical view that Trianon is less about our past, but more about our future. You can call me a Hungarian Futurist. Our past national catastrophe to me, presents a constructive challenge, sort of like a national Rubik’s cube needing to be solved. By constructive, I mean that we will have to become a rich producing nation in order to take economic and political leadership in the Carpathian basin. Once we do reach this point, our taking the assets in the neighboring becomes inevitable- it’s a process called capitalism.
When I ask my fellow Hungarians to buy up the assets in the outer territories, I am putting that to them as a practical challenge. I am asking that they start thinking like owners , masters and investors, and not some beggar who just got robbed. There is in us a lot of fatalism, pessimism and self pity; it saps our ability to seize the moment and to see opportunity. It will prevent us from getting better, if we let it.
(will continue)
When I think of a mine in Slovakia and ask myself, who will be owning it in a global economy five years from now, who could it be? Israeli investors? Japanese? Americans, Germans, etc.? Why not Hungarians? We still like to think that this should be Hungary- so why not become owners over there? Hungarians should be viewing all this as investment opportunities. Buy up what’s worthwhile, what can produce profit for us, pay off the investors- and then repeat cycle by buying more. The Japanese did this in Hawaii and the Phillipines- good role models!
If Hungarians don’t feel rich enough to do all this, well let them spend the next 30 years working on how to become more wealthy, or let them borrow the money from somewhere. That’s what our alliance buddies are good for. This is all back-room wheeling and dealing- we might as well get used to it.
Number one priority is economic advancement. With it, we will dominate the region through trade and investment, at the very least. What kind of nation do we want to be 5 or 10 years hence? How will we produce wealth? Magyar dominance in the Carpathian basin should not be a goal, but a by-product of our economic advancement.
Our increasing wealth will also get for us a more respectful hearing and consideration in the halls of the rich and powerful. We will have to cleverly court all the major powers and not make big mis-steps. Without good friends in high places, we are an utterly marginal people.
@László
As long as I know Richter and Mol makes extensive
ivestments in sorrounding Countries. But you also
have to keep in mind that Hungary know in an
economical battle against western economical
colonization… so we should primary focus on
Hungary( what’s left of it). Look what Deutche
Telekom did, they bought majority both in Matav
(Tcom, T-home)and Westel (T-mobile), then they’re
sold Westel to Matav, and booom where did the
profit lended in Germany! I think fror doing so,
the state should have taken over the company and
kick the Germans out of the Country… but no it’s
Hungary! Those assholes in the government just
changed licking western asses vertical to
horizontal.
ooops that Anonymus was me again. Anyway Deutche
telecom on this road also managed to make Hungarys
leading service provider, with good branding, nice
costumer services into something miserable, no
quality, very poor branding,the worse in the
country now. Oh, and above all, they dare to pick
on a misleading name Magyar Telekom! But they
anything but Magyar. I think the parliament should
make a low that companies over 50% foreing
ownership shouldn’t allowed to use Magyar or
Nemzeti (national) in their names! They should
call themselfs Német Telecom Magyarország(German
Telecom Hungary… I also almost drowned in
laughter, Siemens Hungary started to call
themself, Siemens Nemzetivállalat (Siemens
National Corp.) But what nation? Siemens is 100%
German, they about getting as much as possible
here and taking as much of it as possible to
Germany, for obvious reasons… So why they just
call themselfs Siemens Magyarország… they have
nothing to do with our nation anyway…
Hello Anonymous,
It’s a very delicate issue you raise, and there is no precise road map for us at the present time. We only have our wits to guide us.
There is no equality between nations and never was. The process of the strong/richer taking advantage of the weaker, or dictating terms, is old as the hills and goes on. Where does this leave us? What to do? I don’t want us to fold into inertia for one thing. I want us to play the game better, for another.
You raise the issue of economic colonization. That’s fair enough, because that was inevitable when we privatised the economy, in congruence with the current world trends. Of course there are others who have been playing the capitalist game longer and much better than us, and so are in a position to view us as mechandise. I think you are calling for some kind of protectionism. The history of all rich developed coutries shows a protectionist phase at some point in their history. They do however evolve to a neo-liberal model driven by trade. The question is, should the Hungarians go through a protectionist phase? They can, but our trading partners and allies are not going to like it for one. They may signal their displeasure by withholding capital and loans, as well as not taking our political concerns seriously. If on the other hand we play along, most of our valuable assets may be in foreign hands. There are no “right” answers, in the sense that there is a penalty and a price, no matter what we do.
(will continue)
Our challenge is to find our place on the totem pole that isn’t too low down for us. We can’t be on top- we are not a superpower. I don’t want us going through life thinking that we are on bottom, because that may become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Again, it’s all a game involving money and politics. The fact that past generations of Hungarians were not good at playing the game is no reason for us to walk away and not learn to get good at it. If the Germans are buying in, take their money and invest it somewhere! If you want more,ask them for a loan or at a chance at partnership. It’s a two way street, a hard attitude for us to get used to.
I don’t offer simple minded slogans, but tough issues that cut both ways. I’d like to hear some practical suggestions for how we can kick ass. I’m sick of being a nation of serfs- we spent a lousy 1000 years doing that. How about some success, some power for a change?
@Laszlo – you’re right,this post is one of the better ones.
It would indeed be a magnificent feat if Hungary managed to persevere to develop itself economically, to be able to acquire the lost lands. However,the economic investment behind this is enormous,and should Hungary attempt as you suggest,it also raises the issue of divided lands or lands ending up with people with personal agendas.
Robi’s economics seem really out of touch with reality,and only expresses envy or nationalism. Not all developed countries have resorted to protectionism.My own country had opened its borders freely to foreign investments, and within 20-25 years, it has gone from 3rd world country to 1st world. The govt is now, having achieved considerable wealth, trying its own attempt at what you term, economic colonization.This is not done to dominate other countries, but rather because to gain access to resources (which everyone is competing for),and also to ensure that we are not overly dependent on any one industry or economy.Your point of the strong dominating the weak is true,and there is little likely chance that this will change(unless the strong shoot stumble eg USSR, Brit empire, maybe now US). However,to be sucessful with your approach, Hungary must be able to develop quicker than any of its neighbours,and the people/govt must be willing to invest/sacrifice today’s wealth/comforts for tomorrow’s goals for a long period.Hungary,however,does not think homegeneously like Japan or Korea.
Hi KEF,
When you mention that Hungary does not think like Japan or Korea, you made a very good point. We don’t because we did not shake off feudal/communist serfdom until very recently in the historic timeline, compared to others. (Our neighbors also have this terrible problem) We did not become accomplished at capitalism, especially the kind where capital is pooled from among many participants for greater leverage. (What capitalism existed in the old Hungary was mostly the domain of Germans and Jews) We have not developed much capital internally with which to keep others at bay. Finally we never had a ruling class that could think as mercantilists and strategic gameplayers. To correct these weaknesses is the role of Hungarians today and tomorrow.
One could argue that our insecure neighbors are even less accomplished at these things than we are! Can Hungary develop at a faster rate than them? I’m betting that it can. Is Slovakia or Serbia on some fast track that we are not on? Hmm… If we can’t work our way upward and onward, then we are doomed to be a people who just take whatever dirt is tossed on their plate. What doesn’t rise, sinks.
Dear paprika,
For me a person that says the “Holahoax”, you ment holocaust is a fairytale is nothing but stupid.
especialy if they come from Hungary as 430,000 jewish Hungarians were sent to auswitz and were murdered within weeks!.
The arrow nazi hungarian party helped collecting them…
You should really be ashamed of yourself for saying such bullshits.
My brother studies medicine now in Hungary and thank god you are somthing unique in Hungary.
All of my blond grandfather’s family except him was murdered by the nazis.
They didnt just disapear in the middle of the woods… they were shot before they had to dig their own graves!
Your hate will bring you nowhere.
and like said in here jews have lived in Europe for 2,000 years… we all have some European blood in us.
and regarding the EU… look at Hungary , look at how it looked 7 years ago and how it looks now and tell me the EU hasnt made your country a normal one… you never even had normal roads.
The EU also allowed to your people to go and get better education at affordable prices.
I bet the Russians were better werent they?
Hungary without the EU would develop as slow as a new juguslavian country.
The treaty of Trianon was forced on Hungary since it peaked to fight with Germany Aust and Turkey… nobody told the Hungarians to fight against the west.
nobody told the Austro-hungarian regime to control and use 6 diffrent nations… like you wanted your independence so did the slavs and so did the romanian
@Realiatic
I meant Holahoax load and clear! I dont deny there was German labor camps setup and the Jews were sent there some dying from gunshots, disease and hunger, what I am denying is the propaganda that followed the WW2 of the Gas chambers, soap, lamp shades and 6 million Jews Gased ! this is all bullshit HOLAHOAX!! Jews sold out Europe they are traitors to the globe not only to Germany and Europe, unfortunately the real colprits are the Zionists Jews who made all Jews suffer also in creating the Israel Dictatorship, not to mention right now there murdering and oppressing Palestinians and they have a wrotten History for manipulating the world markets and oppressing nations ie: Rothchilds Rockafellas etc who are now collapsing the global markets to control more of the people and resources! you should be ashamed Realistic! yes you! for being so Ignorant! Blind !selfish and Dumb!!
@ Realistic
What about the Hungarians whom suffered under the current commie Jews?? and last 64 years of Commie Jew oppression? Today we remember the fallen the oppresesed Hungarians that suffered and still are suffering since end of 1956 and WW2, you wont get any sympathy vote from me, unless you start waking up people to the Zionists propaganda lies!
Wake Up Hungary!! Szebb Jovot!!
@Hot
I think you should have talk about the Holocaust
with my grandma. I do not like Israel and the Zionist either… and if you think 6 million
people have not been slaughtered by the natzi’s
you are just a plain idiot knowing nothing about
European history. So it ‘s better If you stay where ever you are with the Koalas and stuff them!
@Robi
You think your the only one that had a grandmother and family that that had to live through WW1 WW2 and 1956, you think that you have more rights because your grandmama was in some labor camp JEW? your the one who is limiting your scope of awareness, what about the Christians that sufferd! and still are !! Robi you open you eyes!!
@Hot
The level and the quality of your thought are a
shame of the entire humanity! I did not said that
my grandma was living in WWI and she did survived
a concentration camp not a work camp. And if you
deny it you are just another natzi liar nothing
more! You can tag me JEW, I do not take it an insult from a bastard who an offspring of nyilas
traitors running as coward rabbits till the end of
the world in fear of the commies , who’ll never be
neither Australian nor Hungarian, your just a
rootless nothing… a mere existence with a head
full of stupid theories justifying your pointless
being. Your mother would have been doing a great
favour for the rest of the humanity having an
abortion in time, but what you could expect from a
natzi slot shivering in fears from the commies in
the bushes of Australia.
@Robi
I deny the Holocaust but not the German Labor camps! Holocaust is propaganda! Plain simple and I’m for Human Beings! I want to help awaken people to investigate and question the Holahoax, and as soon as you begin to research you will see the propaganda about Holocaust unfold.. Why is it that as soon as a person questions Holocaust they are labelled Nazi, dont be an ostrich! Question both sides of the argument and check where the sources are coming from , dont asume the bullshit that is in the mainstream media and our institutions.
@Hot
Ügye nem gondolod, hogy egy náci köcsög, egy
ausztrál korcs, aki még magyarul sem beszél
normálisan fog Magyarságból kioktatni? Ha lenne
egy kis vér a pucádban haza tolnád a rühes képed
én meg kikapnálak a bomberdzsekidből benyulnék a
szádon, kinyulnék a seggeden és a töpörödött
pöcsödnél fogva fordítanálak ki, azt száradhatnál
besózva a napon te nyilasok korcsa világ szégyene!
@Robi
Jewish Pussy! We’ll see once the truth is out about the real version of the holohoax, Hungarins are awakening to your propaganda! And your a typial stereotype that has swallowed the propaganda .. Why dont you genuinely question the Holohoax you clown! instead of watching Shitlers List and believing the fake witnessess during the Nuremburg trials and propaganda released years after the event, crawl back under your rock! I would love to see you try to get physical, I would have great pleasure in whipping your arrogant Jewish arse.. Gone are the days Hungarians are going to get pushed around anymore!
@hotpaprika
(btw your nick is just like you neither Hungarian
nor Australian stucked in nomans land, poor you))
Your words are speaking for you! No further
comment are needed! Get well soon!
@Robi
at least we agree that there no point to carry on with this discussion, you pussy!
I found this site by accident – and have to add my two cents, regarding th\e possibility of revising the Trianon land grab. For starters : What’s the UN justification for Kosovo? Why Kosovo and not Kassa or Kolozsvar -oops Kosice and Cluj? Someone suggested buying up property – would need UN/EU guarantee against another confiscation.Hungary used to have a remarkable school system, producing world class scientists like professor Neumann who headed the Princeton Institute of Advanced Physics and is credited as the father of the computer and Edward Teller of H-Bomb fame. There were many others.The talent is there – needs to be utilized. The current president of France is a Hungarian emigrant. I don’t think Hungary does anything to encourage the return of expatriates or their families. No country can afford to loose two generations of potential creative talent. Just ask the Swedes.
.Charlie Zebra
@Laszlo – “Is Slovakia or Serbia on some fast track that we are not on?” . Funny how your idea to reverse Trianon bears some semblance to this. Today’s bbc website
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7680550.stm
While some of you living in the past, some of us living in the future! Hate and anger will not solve anything. And yes, Hungarians are prone to negative vibes, jealousy, and dementia-induced anger!!
“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” ~Voltaire
@Charlie Zebra
Kosice is Kassa now in Slovakia, Cluj Napoca is
Kolozsvár in Transylvania. Sarkozy is not a
Hungarian, if you know Hungarian literature you
may read The Stars of Eger form Gárdonyi Géza,
you’ll know Sárközy is a Gypo name… So this Gypo
just did that Sarkozy’s mother and left, that’s
how he came to this world… he had no more
relation to Hungary, a Hungarian speaking Gypo
fucked her mother that’s all LOL)))) And avoid
from Koala fucker australians who pretend to be
Hungarian without even having a reasonable command
of Hungarian and the bastard of two arrow cross
natzi betrayed Hungary)))
Hello Charlie Zebra,
Welcome to this arena. Mentioning Kosovo in the same breath with the Trianon treaty and attempts to revise same, represent two different set of facts and circumstances. The Serbs were the official rulers of Kosovo, but dropped the ball. The UN would love to get out of there, I’m sure, but doesn’t feel it could give the region back to the Serbs without risking another conflict and refugee crisis involving the Albanians.
Our territories were taken not because we were starting wars, engaging in mass ethnic cleansing and causing a refugee crisis all over Europe! It was a combination of back room dealing- which we weren’t smart enough to counter, along with our neighbors sensing our weakness and lack of leadership that did us in. We were just a big roast turkey to them, and they helped themselves!
Among that sad generation of Hungarians of 1919, we had no leaders or leadership who would have thought to play both sides (as Machiavelli would have advised) and pay off the American, French British politicians who were trying to give away our land. They all acted like they were living on another planet. A little money spread around to the right people could have softened the blow considerably, and the map for us would not look as bad as it does today.
I appreciate your point about the great scientists and scholars. We need more of that, and we really need to create a Hungary where such people either stay, or return to.
Hi KEF,
Thanks for the BBC link. I suggest all of you read it- the Slovaks are taking my advice! I’m waiting for the Hungarians to get in the news, in this very manner. I eagerly await news of Hungarian acquisitions and buyouts!
If we are not clever enough to buy undervalued real estate and buildings in the outer territories, then I doubt our flag will ever fly there again! Should the Slovaks be our teachers and mentors?
We have to take advantage of the opportunities that this present era offers us. The way is open for anyone to become an owner and investor anywhere. It’s all a game, and let the best man win!
Robi: “Sárközy is a Gypo name”
Is not Farkas a Roma name?
@Laszlo – “Should the Slovaks be our teachers and mentors?”
Hungary should learn, not just from the Slovaks, but from anyone who has succeeded in moving their country ahead. Anyone who believes they have a monopoly on knowledge is bound not to progress beyond their current state.
Taiwan and Korea learned from the Japanese despite being ruled by them for decades. Now, both are independent, lead the world in PCs (Taiwan), and LCD & RAM technology (Korea), and love sticking it up to the Japanese. Better hope the Slovaks are not looking to emulate the Taiwanese and Koreans with respect to Hungary.
@Viking
Roma in Hungarian only means Rome, what are you
talking about? Roma as people from Rome or maybe
from Romania?D)
Robi, Was that the best you could do? Embarising low logic, but you are a Real Hungarian with proven ancestors from Arpad, Right? So what can we expect.
So,
1) This is an English-language site. If you do not understand or like that – you can always follow your own favourite advice to us “immigrants” and take a hike somewhere else.
2) According to wikipedia:
‘The Romani people (singular Rom, plural Roma as a noun; also known as Romanies) are an ethnic group with origins in South Asia. The Romani people are a widely dispersed ethnic group, with the largest concentrated populations in Europe and the Americas. They are often referred to as Gypsies or Gipsies.’
You get it now? I would believe that there is an Hungarian translation of that wiki-text also.
You like to claim that Sarkozy is from Roma origin. Personally I do not know, normally Hungarians refer to his Jewish ancestors. In your mind that means someone is bad. That is your mind and your problem.
So why is not Farkas, Varga and Orban names which have maybe a majority of people of Roma origin attached to it? Why call Sarkozy a Roma, when you do not call Farkas Laszlo one? There are more Roma called Farkas than Sarkozy as their last name.
@Viking
Nice liberal habit to tag people who disagree with
you. That is the so called Western liberalism, you
agree and obey or you are nationalist, Nazi or
just “Embarising low logic, but you are a Real
Hungarian with proven ancestors from Arpad, Right?
” what refers to more refined sophisticated
western logic of yours… oops I always forget
that criticism is an exclusive western
prerogative. If you would know Hungarian culture,
what you obviously do not, than you may have heard
of Geza Gerdonyi’s Stars of Eger and than you’d
know that why Sarkozy is a Gypsy name and why. You
right with the other names, but you can see that
Hungarians does not look things as black and white
as you like to over simplify in your superficial,
shallow only self minded droid western way, this
is the only Country where the leader of the
Nationalistic party is a Gipsy both by name and
apearance and nobody gives a flying f***.
Just to clear things, Sarkozy’s father was from some minor Hungarian “nobility” with Gypsey connections, his mother was a Greek Jewess.
Hello KEF,
Not just the Slovaks, but any group that wants to get ahead will have to play this game, as it is the only one in town. The nature of our world changes, and Hungarians will have to keep up. The rules that we have to play by officially are made by others- we have to adapt.
If anything I have said here has resonated with my fellow Hungarians, I ask that they discuss it with their friends. Much of what I have said here is the product of many years reflection. We need a positive motivator to economic empowerment. We also need to address the tendency to pessimism; as success at entrepreneurship and capitalism requires self-confidence and optimism. The national focus and attitude needs a constructive outlet.
I need to make something very clear right now. I am a Hungarian patriot who does not subscribe to antiquated right notions of blood purity. Being a Realist, I know that such ideas are not part of the current world political climate, and embracing them will not make us friends, nor will it gain us support. The economically advanced Hungary that I envision will have to assimilate people regardless of past ancestry. Getting into the top tier of GDP nations should enable us to do this via a vibrant economy that could use talent, regardless of ethnicity. Trianon was a very unjust treaty, and not everyone who questions it necessarily want to go back to 1930′s “Rassenreinheit” politics. If I am a Gypsy, it would be a great surprise to my family.
Robi: “this is the only Country where the leader of the Nationalistic party is a Gipsy both by name and
apearance and nobody gives a flying f***.”
Nice to hear that. Now we just need to convince the guys at kuruc.info, they seem to have a problem with that. On the other hand, what do they not have a problem with?
For those taking this topic to the extreme by pulling out the Trianon Treaty and how unfair it was: Treaties like this happened and will keep on happening at the end of every world war. It is funny to me that the Germans got served the same way after WW II and they managed to get over it sooner than Hungarians.
And I got international education and I do claim that Slovak, just like Hungarian school history textbooks are teaching only the “home” version of history by national historians. And I say that although I am Slovak.
Read up what the independents have to say about the Trianon Treaty. Sorry, I do not endorese any form of slavery, even the modern day “slave labour”.
Dano says: “the Germans got served the same way after WW II and they managed to get over it sooner than Hungarians.”
Not exactly. Germany started the war but they didn’t lose two thirds of their territory and they were happily reunited with East Germany.
So it’s not the same, far from it.
BTW. I wasn’t paying much attention to Europe in the past 20+ years, can someone explain to me why Czechoslovakia (and Yugoslavia) broke up? Why Hungarians didn’t take it a step further and separate from Romania and Slovakia? If Kosovo is cool, why not an indepndent Transsylvania?
Anyone?
My hungarian friends, time to move on. Looking at your economy you seem unable to manage your tiny country of 10 milions, let alone the whole “Carpathian basin”. It’s 21st century, Austria-Hungary is gone for good, get used to it.
Stan: “Germany started the war but they didn’t lose two thirds of their territory and they were happily reunited with East Germany.”
Well, do not mix the 2 WWs. Trianon was a result of WWI. Remember that Austria lost everything that Hungary lost (because Hungary belonged to them) and they are not complaining. Never heard Jörg Haider that he wanted to take back Hungary to Austria. He was more interested in other aspects of Hungary, underaged type.
Germany has not been re-united with the parts the lost after WWII, that today belongs to Poland. The original German-language population in Böhmen-Mären was basically thrown out with the Benes-decret in 1947. Not so many Germans are crying over that today.
Hungary never belonged to Austria, they occupied our lands after the Turks were defeated, Hungary after the turks, Archeological digs and names of the surrounding villages were Hungarian, just renamed. Hapsburgs were a filthy enemy of the Magyars.
So, if you do not accept the Habsburgs as Hungarian Rulers, then we have to go back to around 1500 to find an ‘independant’ Hungary.
So Trianon was then a violation to a country that had not existed for 400 years or so?
“a country that had not existed for 400 years or so?”
Wrong. Hungary has always been here, we just outsourced some government jobs to the Austrians for a while. Maybe we should do it again, Hungarians are just not very good at governing themselves.
What about Israel, the country that never existed? If jews can revise history to their liking, we can do it too. Why not?
For me the decision to form Israel was a faulty as approving Kossovo’s independance.
Trianon was about the Hungarian NationalState, which is a good question when it really existed. To claim that Hungary existed under the Habsburg-era, would be the same as to say that Middle-East has a NationalState called Palestine. It did not before the creation of Israel and it does not have it now either.
Palestine as a ‘country’, yes it has existed since only God knows, but it has never been bound by any legal treaties or recognised as an independant nation by any other NationalStates. Same thing with the NationalState of Hungary.