I think we can all agree that it should go off peacefully,if only in memory of those who died violently .
As for using it as a cheap political tool--my only question is how can people be gullible enough to want to listen to the ex- commie youth leader,now the leader of a party that as bankrupted Hungary, give a speech on this day of memory for REAL heroes who wanted a better Hungary .

Peace and goodwill on this great day of remembrance.

Well close to 10 million people living here. The
"noise" was made a by a loud and depraved 2000.
I do not agryy the way they express their
emotions, I think ruining Budapest's only
Boulevard (btw did anyone ever noticed that
Bulevatd does not lead anywhere?)) is not the best
expression. But if I'd work in a trashy
German/French/Belgian owned supermarket 12 hour a
day and making bellow 100.000.- I'd be desperate
as well...

I'm itching to see the outcome of the commemorations, hey guys it will be a NW breeze blowing so make sure your not standing downwind when the CR gas is released..

as an expat" living in Budapest for 4 years i can say that maybe only 2000 people are in the riots but i get only negative vibes from Hungarian that hear that i am not an Hungarian my self ( "are you planing to stay here? " why dont you work in your country ?" ) i feel it every day - i have been working in the US UK findland Slovakia and Brazil ,,, Hungary is the only country that i have no local friends

@Jim
Well, thats what I was talking about. Most
Hungarians does not like foreigners, but most of
the time they try to be polite not to mention it
or just simply do not even bother... Yo may tag me
racist or nationalist or whatever you like (pls.
feel free to tag me D)) but at least -unlike most
Hungarians- I'm taking the effort to tell you
this. Not because I'm evil and hating you, but
because I do have western friends and family and
I've seen many, many westerners roaming around
with head in the skies, thinking being a saint
satisfying their good own self on the altar of
teaching English and spreading democracy for poor
little Hungarian schoolboys and while the head was
in the sky busy with poising as a saint the one
was stepping into a huge muddy pit without even
seeing it get his feet stacked in the hole and
wondering why nobody cares and being so
mistreated...

Why this angine let you go without giving your
name anyway?) The previous Anonymous was me again
of course...

Jim, I am sorry to read your comments about having no Hungarian friends after 4 years here, and frankly surprised. Though if you were in Brazil most recently, maybe that explains something... the Brazilians are relentlessly outgoing. All I would say is, I meet open, friendly and fun people here *all the time* and I can be a pain in the ass. So don't give up hope, and just try to have a sense of humor.

Jim, Anonymous et al.,:
Hungarian social relationships are clearly demarcated by those either outside or inside a trusted circle of friends. If you can just break through on one good friend the rest follows and there isn't anything that people won't do to help you.

No matter what though, learning the language and showing that you care enough about the local culture is the key, otherwise you'll always be seen as a 'tourist' or worse still an 'expat'.

My advice would be to stay away from the expat ghettoes and bars.

I wouldn't take the cocooned nature of Hungarian social relationships personally or think that (despite all objective statistics and subjective experience in support of this - and there is a lot) that Hungarians are born xenophobes.

If anything I'd diagnose it as pantophobia (everything) mixed with autophobia (oneself), overlaid with social phobia (fear of being socially evaluated). Obviously, being Hungarians the diagnosis isn't that simple.

Just avoid doing that really annoying expat thing of complaining about the fact you can't get a decent burger cooked just right like you can back home and how if Hungarians would just pull their finger out of their... (But then don't do the Hungarian thing of not complaining or wanting to make a scene and then moan about it for hours afterwards).

If you have any hobbies or interests start following them up in Hungarian with Hungarians. And don't believe the pathetic "learning Hungarian is impossible, it's been proved"

Jim, Vándorló

Vandorló is absolutely right. Panthophobia, great
thank you!)I think Hungary as an Inertia, an
island in Europe. Hungary is bordered and tied up
with Hungary. But Hungary is inland so boats are
hardly pass. My family is partially American. I
face with the problem daily that Americans are
moralizing over everything, tagging Hungarians as
racist, nationalist and not tolerant enough but if
anything happens out of the range of their
expectations, out of those things they consider PC
then they get upset, outraged and showing the
least tolerance toward local habits and cultural
differences. For instance my uncle is the
nightmare of the McDonald's nearby. He always
tries to make a nice little chat with the
employees over important issues like why they had
raised the price of the "Latte" (they still think
that mixing French words into your speak makes you
sophisticated...)with 9% from one day to the
other, what I did not even noticed... In this
place as a I see there are mainly part time
students re working for something close to a
minimal wage I do know some of them talking
English, but a case like that easier not too), he
does not speak Hungarian after 10 years of living
here... I do not know he knows that the employees
"just working there", thinks he is Crazy and they
do not care about his McDonald's stacks at all but
what they do think they just being held up by a
stranger! So Jim try to "localize" yourself, try
liver!D)))))))))))))

Absolutely spot on Vándorló. Your advice, as always, is well thoughtout and insightful.

Jim, I know how it can feel. All those miserable faces on the public transport and the endless questions about what the fuck you're doing here. The questions may seem a bit abrupt sometimes (like the 'why don't you work in your own country'), but the fact that they are asking them is always a good sign that people are interested in you and are curious about your opinion (well, OK, maybe they aren't but at least they're asking). And Ván is right about the usual foreigner stereotypes that Hungarians encounter. I have encountered many a Brit, Yank & Canuck that spent their time complaining that the little things just aren't the same as back home. (I personally love the differences, who needs a burger when there's a butcher serving fried sausages). If you're a night-lifer don't go to the ex-pat ghettos. There are plenty of places, at least in Szeged and BP, that cater for Hungarians and non-Hungarians alike (Erik, I promise no plugs, that's a journo-job) in relaxed and convivial atmospheres. Learn a little Hungarian, even if it's badly spoken, and immerse yourself in the history and culture. As long as you have a good self-deprecating sense of humour, and don't think that you're the dogs bollocks due to being born elsewhere, you'll always get a smile when you mangle a Hungarian sentence in front of Hungarians but also ackowledge the contributions Hungary has made to world culture.

ever since i read this post yesterday, i've been stopping every half hour or so and going, "wtf?" -although i know plenty of hungarians on both sides of the ongoing parliamentary firestorm who are fed up with the current political system, i don't know one who plans to go out and riot. or protest.

i marched along during the 15 march demonstrations because i wondered who the people actually were who were out causing hungary's reputation to go from nonexistent to "bad", and found that there were many people who were there because they were angry. and unreasonable. and even clueless. there were people who were looking to get into trouble, or to cause trouble. mostly, there were people who were venting their emotions because there was a place for them to do so. but robi made an excellent point in that first post -they're just pissed off people who do not really represent a significant portion of the population or the sentiment of hungarians as a collective society. it seems to me that most hungarians are more mired in apathy.

social upheaval on this scale *is* something that needs to be taken seriously, but it's totally overplayed by the media. the main reason i am so perplexed is that the tarka march on 4 october got no media coverage to speak of - and after the fiasco that was the gay pride parade, and that thing with the shoes on 20 september - you'd think that braodcasting a peaceful demonstration might be more beneficial than the results of these studies.

thank you.

Risci
I wish that the October 23rd Rememberance Day could be like that in the UK. Wreaths are laid by the "Great and The Good". The 'Sky Pilots' do a bit of "God bothering". The VIPs disappear (probably for a stiff scotch) and the real business begins when 3000 to 4000 older men and women, most of whom have paid their own fare to get there, march past to remember their comrades. They too lay wreaths and go and find some good beer
They have an Act of rememberance it is this
"They shall not grow old as we that are left grow old.
Age shall not weary them nor the years condem.
At the setting of the sun and in the morning
WE WILL REMEMBER THEM

dear Jim,
i read the comment here and i still think you are talking from the heart and i feel the same. Traveling and working in many countries in the world I also find the Hungarian people having Xenophobia towards foreigners and although I do have some Hungarian friends (good friends) I still feel unwelcome.
As for the language issue that was pointed here as a reason of feeling unwelcome ,well I worked also in Egypt, Malta, Germany and Slovakia and without knowing the local language in any of those places (I never placed in the same country for more then 2 years) I always manage to feel nice and positive about the place –as when I gave a smile I always got a smile back and here in Budapest I can smile until tomorrow and nothing will help me , most of my time that I am trying to solve an issue I just hear that it is my problem (" sorry , but it is your problem not mine ") .
So maybe there is a secrete that only Hungarian knows but for an expat the life here must end in their on bubble in order to have fun without feeling bad about living in Budapest ( and non of my work mate came with superiority or "nose up " over the Hungarian).

@Dan
When I was living in Denmark I always received that "that is your problem after all so try to
solve it" and the fake smile come with it just
made it more disgusting. Yes, Hungarians does not
smile unless they mean it! We do not approve fake
smiles, and pretending happiness will not make you
happier... And you were also right, people who are
only here for work, so out of plain economical interest are the least welcome!

Robi: "people who are only here for work, so out of plain economical interest are the least welcome!"

I assume you are meaning very poor people who would think that working in Hungary would satisfy any "plain economical interest"? On the other hand do you normally see any 'Hungarian' doing that kind of work?

My experiance to find cheap labour in Hungary are to illegally hire 'etnical Hungarians' from the Ukraine and Romania. They are normally good workers and do not ask extremely much money. I know that the people you call 'Hungarians' (and you like to identify yourself as such) are not so happy with these illegal immigrants than they destroy the labour market a bit. On the other hand it is not easy to find good workers in Hungary, whatever you pay them.

When I find really good workers I always offer to help them to become legal in Hungary, but the absolute majority of them does not want that. They are happy living in the Ukraine/Romania. Maybe they are part of Farkas Laszlo's big plan to buy back the old territories? Just need to get some money from the heartland.

In my experience, trying to speak Hungarian has brought a mixture of impatience, incredulity and, every now and then, a positive reaction. But let's not kid ourselves: it's not a question of make the effort and Hungarian doors will be open.

It's not just "Brits, Yanks and Canucks" who find Hungarian attitudes hostile either. I have Czech friends and Polish friends who can't stop themselves from blurting out their weekly stories about trying, and failing, to get along in Hungarian society. So let's not level this issue only at arrogant Westerners such as myself.

What I want to know is: who's going to compensate me for all that time I spent learning Hungarian, when I take that plane to Thailand? :)

Ok, so case in point: hark at me with my options to get out of here, which I'm at the point of taking. But at the same time it's Hungary that retains its well-earned reputation.

Robi,
When we ( the fake people ) smile is not because I am happy , but as you meet new people and you shake hands you can also smile to start well with positive energies.
"Hungarian smile only when they mean " is a very arrogant point of view but also stupid saying something about the general bitterness around here and that 90% of the people in all countries are fake and only the glories Hungarian nation are the "Real deal" ,,,give us a break.
I work here in an international company and I was invited to come here by the brunch manager (which is an Hungarian ) but on the same hand he could of hire an Hungarian to do my job and he choose not to so ( I wonder why…).

@ Robi
fake are not the people who smile but the Hungarian that use the words of over politeness when all they want to say is "Hi , bye –or- thank you " (and only words –not behavior ) but they will talk shit on you the minute you leave or steal from you.
All the politeness is the fakest thing I ever saw.
And as you said Robi , that
"Hungarians does not smile unless they mean it" we expat (and the rest of humanity ) don't say words we don't mean.

Jon believes: "we expat (and the rest of humanity ) don't say words we don't mean."

Get real.

Get real Stan,
You clearly didn't understand a very simple cynicism in respond to the stupid remark made by Robi that "Hungarians does not
smile unless they mean it!" Basically saying only Hungarian are non fake people.
Got it ?
If not , i will tell to you the most famous Hungarian saying " that is your problem

@stan @jon

do not like it than leave it D)