Hungary’s governing Socialist Party plans to raise central funding for Roma programmes by one billion forints (EUR 3.75m) this year, MP Laszlo Teleki told reporters in Budapest on Monday.
The government has put aside over 1 billion forints to eliminate shanty towns. Over the past few years, 400 to 800 million forints has been spent for this purpose, he said.
Teleki noted that the education ministry had earmarked 740 million forints (EUR 2.8 million) for supporting Roma musicians, promoting talent-scouting and organising camps for Roma children.
The Roma, numbering nearly 1 million, form the biggest ethnic minority out of an overall population of 10 million. The Roma are generally much poorer and less educated than the majority, with an unemployment rate of nearly 40 percent.
Oohh please, this stupid goverment should spend the money on them who deserv it, like hostpitalse and schooles, fixing roads and fixing houses. The Romas will only trhow stone and sabotage any ways, and it wil cost even more money.
I have heard of Romas that they get there change to go to school many of them never show up, they are a lost pepole let them be lost.
The quality of SveaMagyar’s English certainly suggests that extra funding for schools might be well spent – though I suspect it’s too late for him/her.
Would have made for a much more interesting article had they lost
the word ‘slums’ in the Headline…
Sewage says: “Would have made for a much more interesting article had they lost the word ‘slums’ in the Headline…”
Why?
“What’s in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet”
Stan,
“Government to plow extra Ft 1bn into eliminating Roma”
Surprised you missed it.
Sophist,
I guess I missed this one. I didn’t know who posted the comment. New guys and people who use different names for each post are usually the pro-gypsy crowd, so it’s an honest mistake…
Stan,
“people who use different names for each post are usually the pro-gypsy crowd”
Would debate not be healthier if we stopped trying to label each other’s politics, and read each other’s posts instead. I don’t like my anti-discrimination stance being labelled as pro-gypsy: I think positive discrimination is just as retrograde.
I have to ask how comfortable are you with being repeatedly lumped together with Ricsi and HotP? I discern a strong libertarian element in your posts (low taxation, free pot), and a strong religious element in HopP’s, which are both absent from Ricsi’s posts.
I don’t understand the need to form “parties” in what is a purely ideological forum.
AdrianD
Skulking around under a new tag !! LOL
Let me make it clear to you,I am not particularly religious ,true But I believe a strong nation requires three things, 1-Pride in nationality, 2-Strong family unit, 3-Faith (be it religion or paganism LOL)
We are seeing a systematic,deliberate break down of all three, if Stan sees this also,that is good enough,he does not have to be Jobbik,indeed can hate it for all I care,but at least he has his eyes open to reality.
I also believe in low taxation,but free pot ? Do not know,never tried it,so can’t comment.
Ricsi,
It seems pretty clear that a stong nation requires pride in nationality, but the other two — faith and family – often cut across national interests, didn’t HotP write that his decision to return to Hungary caused him to break off relations with members of his Australian family?
From a more historical persepctive, I think that two reasons why Hungary failed to form a strong nation state like those in Western Europe originated in family and faith. The Hungarian Nobility often put their own family interests ahead of those of the nation, a vice which has now filtered down through the whole of Hungarian society. Similary, Roman Catholicism has a universalist agenda that Hungary never overcame. Hungarian Nationalists have typically been Hungarian Protestants.
But if you want a strong nation and believe that faith is essential to that project how do you reconcile that with your being “not particularly religious”. What do you have faith in?
Ricsi,
I didn’t say “free pot”, as in giving it away at no charge. I would just legalize or decriminalize it. Not because I use the stuff (it stinks and doesn’t do anything for me anyway) but because making it illegal also makes it more desirable and easily accessible for kids. I would treat pot the same way as booze and tobacco, sell it to adults, tax it, everyone is happy.
I also find the “war on drugs” a major violation of personal freedom and privacy, plus a huge waste of time and money. So legalize it, and spend the money saved on treatment and education of those who are hooked on the heavy stuff, like heroin or alcohol. Pot is harmless, LSD and cocain are not nearly as bad as they want you to believe. The drug war only helps organized crime and corruption. Why support them?
Sophist
Faith in the basic decency of the average Hungarian,something that is been tried to the limit these days.
Faith in the fact that we are all far more connected than we realise,but are deliberately misdirected away from the huge hidden potential.
(We use less than 5% of our brain ,imagine what we are really capable of !)
Faith in the collective consciousness .
If Religion gives people hope and strength then I can accept it,but find it unbelievable that the catholic church is so rich and flaunts its wealth whilst beggars remain.For a real sympathetic church I would have to point to the Calvinist/Reformatus faith–beautiful simple but basic churches with no pretensions.
However, at heart I repeat I am not a religious person myself.
Stan,
I hear you mate,and agree.
The hypocrisy behind alcohol and tobacco is a real issue to me,ultra discounted cheap alcohol,still allowing sales of a known killer to smoke,etc…
I have read a lot in the past about “Hemp” and its amazing uses and how they used the “cannabis” tag to destroy its market potential.If it is against big business you are not going to get it !
Ricsi,
“Faith in the collective consciousness”
Not sure what you mean by this, only seen it used in Jungian psychology before:
“by ‘collective consciousness’ we mean the aggregate of the traditions, conventions, prejudices, rules, and norms of human collectivity which give the consciousness of the group as a whole its direction, and by which of this group consciously but quite unreflectingly live.” – The Psychology of C.G.Jung, Jacobi, 1973, Yale. pg 29
Is this what you have faith in? It would certainly bring you closer to my understanding of some of HotP’s ‘religious’ ideas.
Sophist
Forget Jung,this is obviously way beyond you.
Sophist? Isn’t that just a fancy word for *dodgy?*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophist_(dialogue)
Think it’s more like a dodgy word for *fancy*.
Jungian system is interesting concept, The psychologist Carl Jung called it “synchronicity.” Instead of judging everything based on a relative scale, people in a higher state of consciousness simply don’t judge. They don’t label anything, and they don’t have any boxes in their minds. They are not interested in putting everything in a box; they simply want to increase their understanding of the world. They don’t want to control; they want to discover.
Before Einstein, science was dominated by the dualistic consciousness, it had done little to challenge the dualistic view of the world.
The Theory of Relativity was the first serious challenge to dualism, and quantum physics has gone even further than Einstein. If everything is energy, then the world is not made from two separate elements. It is made from only one element which simply appears in different forms.
There is an underlying oneness of all life. Your individual mind and energy field exists within the collective mind and the energy field of the planet. When you raise up your own consciousness, you will pull on the whole, and it is only as the collective consciousness is raised that certain ignorant manifestations will be eliminated from the planet.
This is also included in Jesus teachings Buddhists Taoism and many other religions, just that man and the elite are keeping this information from the masses, and if this belief system would be taught freely, just imagine what we could create with consciousness!
The ‘Collective Consciousness’, summed up nicely by Hot Paprika ! Thanks
hotpaprika and ricsi are talking bollocks
Innocent-bystander
Thank you very much for your intellectual contribution,we look forward to your future comments with great expectations.
Another interesting discription of Consciousness is the (dreamer)there is no difference between reality and dreams except that reality involves mass consciousness holding the rules of reality rigid, whereas in dreams usually only the personal subconscious does so. Just as thought underlies objects in dreams, so does thought form the basis of matter in waking reality.
Hot Paprika
Getting too deep for me mate !!
I am a simple man,with simple pleasures,wine,women,and song and I don’t care if I am dreaming or conscious !
Hotpaprika,
Plagarism, pure and simple.
You took your whole fancy comment verbatim from here:
http://www.askrealjesus.com/F_LEASTKNOW/WORLDVIEW/Everything%20energy.html
Just how stupid are you?
Im not writting a thesis in Uni, buffhead !! or selling a book! what disciplinary measures are you going to impose, a good spanking! for a summary on higher Consciouness! how nice to see you can use the google search button. Instead of reading the text and applying the content to the discussion, you try and ridicule, typical neo liberal tactic, have no balls just sly tactics like a serpent Gulliver.
@Hot Paprika – It’s called integrity! Important, if you want to reach higher Consciousness.
Hello Ricsi and Stan!
Speaking of cannabis, let me second your contributions and take this opportunity to put forth a few things.
The economics “profession” has sung hymns of praise to the concept of “competitive advantage” for over 150 years. In plain talk, that means every country does what it is best at, and then engages is global free trade with others who do wha they are best at. Well one thing the Hungarians have excelled at for centuries is hemp cultivation. Hungary has been a primary hemp producer for a long time, and hemp utilization was at the heart of the peasant culture. My grandmother grew the stuff in her back yard. From it came the fencing posts and material, from it she wove bedsheets, curtains, undergarments; from it’s seeds she extracted lamp oil to see by, and from it came the thatching that made the roof for her 400 year old house.
The Americans have spread a fanaticism all over the world; that possession of even seeds and stems is a felony crime. It was bad enough that this happened in their own neurotic society, but then being the global Ceasar, they made sure that all other countries under their influence also fell in line with this. Woe to those nations that dream of policy independence on this particular issue!
I say the Dutch model would be economically beneficial to Hungary: “Tolerate, Zone and Tax”. Who needs the EU and the economic doors that that might possibly open for us, when we are selling (and taxing!!) weed?
Farkas László,
It seems the Dutch are starting to backpedal from their “Tolerate, Zone and Tax” policy:
http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/oct2008/dutch-cannabis-crimes.html
I used to be very liberal about Cannabis, Stan (at January 9, 2009 10:24 PM) pretty much expresses my previous enthusiasm. The development of stronger skunk varieties has made me more conservative about this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7386889.stm
While tobacco smoking was a minority pursuit, no one could collect the statistics that demonstrated its effects on Health. Once cigarettes took it mainstream it still took a generation of smokers before to discover the links. I feel this could also be the case with Cannabis.
If we are really to follow Stan’s recommendation to “treat pot the same way as booze and tobacco”. It would need handing over production to a few multinational corporations. I’m not sure Stan would want this, though it seems better than handing it over to criminal organisations as seems to be happening in Holland.
Hello Sophist, greetings!
I’ve not had the pleasure before, so welcome to our discussion.
Dear Sophist, I see most everything, especially the big, important things that affect us collectively- like law and policy- to be a game. “Cannabis” on the casino table of life is a big, high value chip; so what does a nation do with it? Do you “put it away” and not play it? Do you keep it on the table and pretend that it is not there? Do you play it? How do you play it so htat it does not end up costing more than it brought in? Can a country “hit the jack-pot” with this? Can it achieve economic independence? Or energy independence? (i.e., hemp seed is a source of fuel oil.)How does a society ensure that criminal gang elements don’t end up affecting the trade? How do we weigh these considerations?
My humble suggestion is that such a thing be tried out on initially on a small scale; confined to a small neighborhood in a few select places, rich in tourists. I also propose that it be offered to guests at international class hotels, at a highly taxed rate.
What I care about is the missing economic opportunity for us. Taxing recreational marijuana sales and use could generate enough revenue for our city, county and national governments to take care of all social needs and problems in our country. That is nothing to sneer at.
Industrial hemp production would be a potentially big employer. Hemp Fuel oil prduction would make us energy independent.
One other point about the Dutch experience re cannabis.
Sophist rightly points out the current trend over there with his link. The Dutch are “back-pedaling” to be sure. But then now so are the Americans, with a different adninistration coming in. I continue to maintain that a country pursues the Dutch model at a certain risk of diplomatic and international trade alienation. For the Dutch, this is a risky stance. They have been a business run society and merchantilist nation for centuries! The Hungarians on the other hand, are a people with nothing to lose, and that is a sad difference between the two countries.
I realistically expect that the incoming US Obama administration will not be so retaliatory and obstructionistic of other nations that want to experiment in the direction of cannabis tolerance. Hungary could use the economic boost that sensible pragmatic policy here could effect, both as it pertains to recreational and industrial use.
Marijuana will not go away. We just choose to give all the profits to the bad guys. Alcohol, tobacco, gambling and all the food that can kill you are legal and more or less controlled by the state. I don’t want them to ban any of it. What I want is information. Keep an eye out for quality and potential or proven harmful effects, and tell me about it. I, as an adult can decide if the pleasure of smoking cigars and dying before I turn into a vegetable is a good deal for me.
When the state forcefully protect me from myself, it is no longer my friend and I will call it names, like stupid and fascist.
For once I agree with you, Stan. But second-hand smoke is a concern for many people, including me, an ex-cigarette smoker.
Second hand smoke is so 20th century. We have third and fourth hand smoke now. You cannot even smoke outdoors in many places. Cars, trucks, barbecues and leaf-burning idiots are still ok.
Go figure…
I too am not a smoker,but the idiotic,bankrupt,corrupt Pécs socialist council have just banned smoking in the central shopping streets,at bus stops and outside schools-yet it is still allowed in food serving establishments,and we still have two stroke Trabant’s allowed until 2011.
figure that out !
Imitation Hotpaprika (Artificial Flavour # 13),
Nice show, if a bit too revealing. Turns out that our self-appointed gipsy-crime-buster (you) is himself a hypocritical fraud. You stole someone else’s (copyrighted) work and presented it as your own. Now, that you have been found out, you are all upset.
For a while I thought that you and Ricsi were the same person because your language were the same. Now I know that you were just mimicing him.
You are just a second-hand copy-cat hate monger, as your juvenile delinquent record predicted. Ask http://www.ASKREALJESUS.COM again – he may have a solution for you. Until then there is only shame and guilt. Poor pitiful bastard.
GULLIVER
your a strange specimen!
Pauli,
Meaning what, exactly?
Meaning you are a pathetic individual with too much time on your hands,get a life.
Hello Stan, Hi Ricsi!
About the concern for “seond hand smoke”, especially as it pertains to prospective cannabis policy. I suggest a liberalisation in areas where we would find and attract well -heeled foreign tourists for one- expensive hotels. The other area I would offer is a “Zone” where tourist attracting “smoking clubs” would be allowed and taxed. Under these conditions, I would say let the visitors in five star hotels “second hand smoke ” each other; what do WE care?! As long as the Hungarian people are left with enough Euros, Dollars and Pounds with which to improve their lives! I would treat this as an expensive, (and very highly taxed) “lollypop” for rich foreigners. Afterwards, let Hungary decide how much further it wants to tolerate this, and under what conditions. Fair enough?
I see the incoming Obama administration as an opportunity that Hungary should seize- to attempt the liberalization that I speak of. There is too much money at stake for people like us to kiss off out of pride; we need the money as a nation.
I wish to see more coming from the Hungarians regarding hemp utilization in the following areas: clothing fashion, paper production, fibre production, food and food oil, and fuel oil production. The latter may ensure our self sufficiency from all foreign energy.
Our Hungarian ancestors had centuries of experience with hemp, and could not have survived without it’s products.
FL,
Hemp products can be used as a substitute for booze. People who want to relax and feel better after a hard day’s work could smoke a joint instead of drinking their liver into extinction.
You can also make rope out of hemp.
To be honest,I am out of my league here,I have never smoked or taken drugs so do not feel qualified to comment in depth,however if it is possible to deny the criminals and make money for the state via taxation,why not ? It will always be out there I suppose !
As for Hemp,it is indeed very versatile,can be legally grown (with a license) but the cannabis variant is a different variant,I think I read somewhere that if you smoked Hemp,you would need a joint the size of a telegraph pole to get high !!
Stan–Do not propose that Hemp could replace my favourite tipple,Red wine,Please !
Our own past leader, Admiral Horthy, hailed from a home village called “Kenderes”, “Place of Hemp”, or place with hemp! So ingrained was the use of this plant in the old Hungary.
A diesel car can run unmodified off of hemp seed oil; it has been done. There is a lot of unrealized economic potential here, that is my main point. Let our people draw from their ancestral experience and move forward economically. I want to hear the “ka-ching” of the cash register!
Why did the old Hungarians rely on hemp so much? Why was this plant their life-saver? Valuable clues to this have been furnished to me by my father and grandmother.
Most Hungarians are descended from peasants, serfs. In the old days, especially in the villages, the people did not have the money to buy their household essentials. Most of that had to be home-made. What did the women do when they needed bed sheets? They grew hemp, wound it up in a spinning wheel, transfered the thread to a loom and got busy! Oila, you have bed sheets! This is how our race got by for centuries! Only “fancy people” got to shop in stores!
My father reports to me that the old men in his village smoked hemp in long pipes, because they did not have the money to buy tobacco!
FL,
We cannot have that! Peasants grow their own food, make their own stuff, almost completely independent and beyond control? No. We need everyone to buy stuff, and totally depend on the state, banks and corporations. That’s why our leaders do everything they can to destroy the fabric of rural communities.
When there’s no gas, everyone must freeze, when the economy is bad, everyone must line up with their worthless paper money at empty stores.
That’s control. People who can take care of themselves are obsolete, let the gypsies chase them away to the city. New world order.
Stan is the man!
Marijuana/hemp prohibition, and the felonising of all possesion and use, is a cruel craziness that has it’s genesis from out of the USA. It is supremely ironic, that what was tolerated and encouraged under the Turkish Sultans and Austrian autocrats, became a maximum crime under American triumphalsts! (Suleiman the Magnificent, to the LEFT of George Bush?!) You just try and follow the Dutch example! Even under a new Obama administration, that may be tough sledding!
What was so good about Stan’s post was the economic sarcasm. America is a very “petit bourgeois”, i.e. business run society. The main concern about cannabis is that employees under it’s influence will show up late for work, will be less economically productive and will be possibly insolent to their bosses. (They may not be such great consumers of products as well!) Anything that doesn’t add to the “botom line” is no good.
Letting paranoid little “small businessmen” determine law and policy in OK in the USA; is it right for Hungary?
FL,
(It’s me, Adrian D. using a less confusing ID)
It seems that the use of cannabis as an intoxicant only became popular after it was banned (a common enough phenomena). The ban was inspired by racism (against Hindus and then Mexicans) rather than puritanism – at least one group of small businesspeople – pharmacists – were against the ban.
http://www.canorml.org/background/ca1913.html
‘The ban was inspired by racism’
I guess you reap what you sow. Stan, HP, Bitchy-
Ricsi… you see what effects your tiny little
minds produce. Cutting your nose off to spite your
face.
Innocent Shit Stirrer!!You are ridiculous, typical provocateur trying to discredit instead of focusing on the content, go get a life and stop pissing in the wind! I would have dropped you in a pub the first moment you would of opened your poofy gob!
Cannabis became “pop” and mainstream in the States in the socially turbulent 1960′s. To the conservative authorities, it quickly became evident that this drug promotes racial mixing, both socially and sexually. The young white hippies were reaching out and including blacks in their social circle, to a degree never before seen in American life. Drugs, especially pot, served as the social sacrament that fueled the breaking down of the old walls. The irony is that anti-cannabis laws had a racist origin and sub-text, while the drug itself helped break down racial and social barriers. “Public Enemy Number 1″ indeed!
“young white hippies were reaching out and including blacks in their social circle” No way white man!! Blacks were kicking ass and taking what was theirs. Meanwhile whites knew their music and culture sucked and looked for models of how they could escape the prison they had built for themselves.
‘once it was the whites who enslaved the blacks,
in steps Nemisis tooting on a sax…’
(paraphrasing a 2 line poem by a poet whose name escapes me).
How do we get economically on track with this pot issue as a nation, if at all?
As we get a more leftward leaning administration coming up in Washington, some things become possible in countries like Hungary that were unthinkable under more conservative Republican administrations. The backlash against any liberalisation under a Reagan or Bush would have been severe. From here on I expect a more rational political climate on this issue in Washington.
I hereby call for full Hungarian independence, free from all bullying and strong-arming from Washington or Brussels, as it pertains to domestic cannbis policy. Let Hungary, as well as it’s neighbors, be free to decide what recreational and industrial use it wishes to make out of hemp.
There is way too much money at stake to kiss off, especially at a time of severe global economic stress. Sorry to state the obvious, but the sale of pot would definitely “work” at such a time.
In light of new political and economic developments, Hungary should prepare plans for the legal sale of recreational pot to: five star hotel guests, tourist trap bars and clubs. (For starters!) A tax schedule should also be prepared.
Second, a domestic cottage industry should be encouraged, that gets Hungarians entrepeneurs involved in breeding and cultivation of both plant and seeds, for both drug and industrial use. Also plans should be made for large scale industrial production of paper and fuel oil.
I saw the oldest Hungarian printed book in my life, at the Ambrosiana Medieval Library at the University of Notre Dame. It was printed around 1480. Six hundred years later, the paper is still kick ass strong and vibrant! I swear it can outlast mauch of our hard construction. Quite frankly, it looks good to go for another 600 years!
It is made out of hemp paper.