"Tabajdi said"???

Have him bridge fidesz mszp szdsz mdp - whatever and see what you going to get!! "00"

My heart goes out for the Hungarians stuck on the Serb side of the border. They are always in some danger, and I was especially concerned for their safety under Milosovic. What happened in the 1990's, which wasn't too long ago in historical time, was ghastly and disgraceful. What would we have done had that alcoholic madman started setting up rape camps and doing to our people what he was doing in Srebenica and Zepa? I have no doubt we would have gotten into an armed conflict. There would have been a violent revision of the Hung./Serb Trianon border, and not the diplomatically negotiated kind I've been talking about here!

The Hungarians there are stuck in a nation that is stuck. The violent depraved natioalists are out, but no process of "truth and reconciliation" has occured that would really enable the Serbs to integrate economically and politically with their neighbors or Western Europe. How to explain the huge mounds of dead bodies, whose stench [Still!] reaches up to heaven? And don't nobody tell me that a mountain of corpses doesn't stink, in more ways than one!

Both the Croat leader Tudjman and Milosovic were Communists turned National Socialists; neither would lead their peoples in a civilised way.

I think the Serbs and Croats are very very lucky! The Serbs and Croats are lucky they didn't provoke the Muslim world into a global jihad against them and sending in a million Muslim fighters into Europe, otherwise there wouldn't hardly be any of them left today! The Islamic world was not prepared at the time, but today the mood out there would be different. These two Balkan peoples were playing with some serious fire, but probably are too dumb to realize it. Should anything like that ever happen again, they may be getting something they can't prevail against, and can't control. Meanwhile, let them be grateful that Al-Queeda seems to have overlooked their crimes, and isn't setting off bombs in Belgrade and Zagreb.

I know a handful of Serbs and every last one of them swears up and down that there are no ethnic tensions in Vojvodina, least of all concerning Hungarians. Then I show them the pages and pages and pages of documentation on various websites (even Amnesty International has noticed) that prove it IS dangerous to be a Hungarian in Vojvodina, and every last one of my Serbian "friends" starts lecturing me about how a) I know nothing, and b) it's all just "isolated incidents," that crime happens everywhere in the world, and how the fact that the victims of violent crimes in Vojvodina are disproportionately Hungarian just means that the HUNGARIANS are a criminal and un-assimilated race. Sick.

Propaganda machine is working ... as usually!!

Furthermore, if the "shoe fits wear it"!!

Hello Mariska,

Thanks for your post. I know what you are saying. There is denial not only about tensions in "Bácska", but dare to mention what happened in the 90's, and you get even more furious denial! How did the rape camps happen? [When a journalist asked "Dr" Karadzic about the children born to women in rape camps, he cavalierly said that he personally would adopt those children as his own! Now are you ready to puke?] How did the paramilitaries happen, who sprung up and went into "action" the minute a republic declared it's independence? The answer is that either it didn't happen (denial), or the other side did the same thing. Hardly satisfying answers. I don't see Serbia as a viable EU candidate. The free movement of people and capital isn't going to be happening anytime soon around those parts. "No justice, no peace", (and no prosperity!).

In this part of Europe, we are all a little mixed ethnically. I have some Croatian ancestry, and my mother was one of the "Bunevac"(Catholic) Serbs living south of Budapest, on Csepel island. What went on in the 90's caused her the deepest shame and embarrasment. The Croats deny the mass muders of Serbs commited by the Ustasha during WW2; the Serbs deny any wrongdoing in the 1990's. Both peoples have behaved monstrously towards each other. They have succeeded in making the German Nazis look like cultured gentlemen by comparison.

Boy, I've made some friends now, haven't I?

The solution?

Positive thinking and time for the pain to ease.

I can't be 100% sure about a guy like Nostradamus or the meaning of his "Quatrains", but I do know that in his book "Centuries" he predicts that a million Persian troops will someday enter "Illyria".(The old Roman name for the Croatia/Bosnia/Montenegro region) A scary thought indeed, and I'm glad this "prediction" didn't come true in the 90's. It's not to "late" however! One way to see this prediction come true, is to make it happen! Let's hope the old Frenchman was just high on something, but given what we have seen around here, I just wouldn't be so sure.

You bet, another Y2K??? hehehe ........

Hi mawar!

It all makes for quite a "morality tale" either way doesn't it? There is much food for thought in all of this!

The Q is, if the french wants to recreate something or you do? Of course according to Nostradamus!

Hi mawar,

I can't vouch for Nostradamus and where he was really getting his inspiration from, but with me, it's an observation, and not a desire or wish thinking! We've seen enough trouble around these parts without such prognistacations coming true. I am just being very matter-of-fact about what a deadly dangerous risk Milosovic and Tudjman were courting with.

If a million "Persians" do confont our Southern neighbors, it won't be because of anything I or Nostradamus wrote! I do hope they stay out of "Pannonia"!

Hi Farkas Laszlo!

Ya and massive manhunt is on for that black hole! Fear is the foundation of ALL the mess, financial, political etc….!!

Greetings!!

Greetings again Mawar,

The people who most need to "meditate" on the events of the 90's are the Serbs and Croats themselves. I hope the troubles are over for good, and that like you say, will recede into the past with time. If however some future generation of Balkan nationalists decide to start up the kind of persecutions that we saw in 15 years ago, I almost gaurantee the Muslim world will not be passive, and it won't be a pretty sight! In that unfortunate event, we would cattch shit too. Historically, when things get too "hot" for the Serbs, they start crossing over our border!

The Nostradamus "prediction" seemed nonsensical to me, until 1992! Later in the conflict, when the Croats and Muslims made some kind of uneasy peace, an Iranian air force transport plane would land every week in Croatian territory, sending arms to the Muslims. A number of "mujahadeen" also showed up, although certainly not a million. I'm betting the Muslim world hasn't forgotten this, especially the Iranians!

I know there are many sensible Serbs and Croats, and I hope they prevail in the future! We don't need "Round 2"! "Round 2" would likely be the end of us around here. One Serb in Bosnia has once before launched a World War! I pray a second one doesn't appear; one "Gavrillo Prinzip" was more than enough.

Laszlo--I can't say I'm optimistic about the future of Serb-Croat relations. The Serbs in particular practically make a fetish out of suffering and victimization, weirdly enough usually their own. The most prominent historical event in their national mythology is the Battle of Kosovo Polje, which they lost to the Turks ignominiously, and it lives on in song as the beginning of a long history of devastation and defeat. They've convinced themselves that they're the most beleaguered and suffering of all people in Europe well enough that it justifies seeing everyone else as an enemy (hence the massive, immense xenophobia so inherent in Serbian culture) and they've become so addicted to their self-induced national pessimism/defeatism that they almost see it as a betrayal to look for a way out of their miserable morass and try to build a better future for themselves. (I once rejected a Serbian fellow's romantic advances, and he said miserably, "No surprise...I'm not made for happiness, I'm Serbian.")
Then of course there's the virulent ultranationalism...I mean, people think WE have problems, with Jobbik and the Garda getting up into 3 or 4 percent popular support? I've frequently heard young, intelligent, well-educated Serbs brag about how many members of their family were Chetniks and say how much they wish they could have lived back then too to fight with them.

Hello Mr Farkas Laszlo!!

You said "I know there are many sensible Serbs and Croats, and I hope they prevail in the future! We don't need "Round 2"!

YOU BET there are Hungarians, Serbs, Croats, Russians, Slovaks, Romanians, Germans, French, English ... etc....

No1 NEED ANOTHER ROUND!!

That would be ROUND3!!

Greetings!!

Hello Mariska,

Thank you for your very articulate and well expressed post! Not only is it well stated, but it contains a great deal of truth! Both the Magyars and Serbs have experienced centuries foreign domination; neither peoples have been allowed to live up to their potential. Both are angry and pessimistic. The Serbs are just further gone than we are; indeed some would think that they are "beyond recovery", whereas (we hope!) the Magyars could eventually "snap out of it"! On a scale of "1 to 10", they are further along than we are. Our rightist elements are a pale shadow of what "Arkan" and his Tigers (as well as the Ustasha) were all about.

The Serbs have been territorially reduced to a very significant degree,(you can say they too have experienced a "Trianon"!) and so will not be in a strategic position to carry out the mischief that they once did. They will never be the 4th largest army in Europe, like they were in the early 90's. Their great risk is that things there will not get better, while not getting bad enough to make the outside world concerned about them. Nothing else to do but pass around the bottle marked "self-pity'!

Serbian folklore has it that the black birds circlng over Kosovo are reincarnated Serb soldiers, in avian form. They apparently didn't make it into heaven!

Thank you Mawar, touche!

The lousiness of European history makes my arithmetic faulty at times! I stand corrected!

Regards,
Laci

Thanks Hot Paprika!

I sure did like Australia and had very happy times there! Back when I was visiting, it was a well maintained nation, and they sure didn't let it go to the dogs by just letting in anybody. They instinctively feel that questions of immigration represent a very delicate balance. You can't absorb everybody that wants in, and you have to justify each prospective immigrant from the standpoint of social and economic utility. They also seem to feel that the number of foreigners let in can't upset the security and self-identity of the majority.

Again,, I don't know to what extent "Brussels" would allow us to mimic a "need based" immigration policy. (Time to read the fine print!) We could use world class engineers, scientists and Nobel prize winners in technical fields, whatever their nationality! If I can be convinced that the contributions of a prospective immigrant would make Hungary stronger, I would be all for it!

(Sorry people, I meant to post the above to another thread!)

Hello Farkas Laszlo!
what a pitty "Serbian folklore has it that the black birds circlng over Kosovo are reincarnated Serb soldiers, in avian form. They apparently didn't make it into heaven!"

Imagine .... “Keep a green tree in your heart and perhaps a singing bird will come.”

Laci,

I've often thought about that, how Hungarian and Serbian history is so similar yet we've reacted to it in fundamentally different ways. Most of the Serbs I know will basically walk into a room and suck all the joy out of it, their pessimism and gloominess is so pervasive. Hungarians can be extremely gloomy too, but I always notice in us some little spark of this defiant hope--we've certainly fought for our independence and freedom more than the Serbs have--they just roll over and say "this is our lot in life, why change it?" and we say "this isn't right, we're going to make things the way they should be or die trying." That's my combination of general impressions and over-romanticized worldview, anyway...

But seriously...could a Serb have written these words of Moricz Zsigmond?

Nem is földre száll az,
hanem fel az égbe,
kinek százezer szárny
csattog a szívébe...

Mariska
Nice words,but the Serbs still occupy former Hungarian lands,as well as Bulgarian and ancient Greek. Hungary on the other hand occupies nobody else's territory.
Back to the plot,Serbia was deliberately hung,drawn and quartered by NATO because of its refusal to accept an EU dominated Europe.(The NWO can tolerate NO dissenters !)and its friendship with Russia,also the oil lines to the Adriatic.
Read up on Henry Makow and Vlada Sindjelic on dejanlucic.net.

Hello Mariska and Ricsi!

In the context of this discussion, I was very emotionally affected by Mariska's poetic quote! Moricz Zsigmond was a great Hungarian poet, and her submission, for the benefit of English only readers means this:

"Not to the earth but to the sky, rises him whose heart flutters with a 100,000 wings".

Poets are dreamers; sometimes they are totally out of touch with reality, othertimes they are ahead of everybody else! Mariska feels the pessimism, as do I.

================================================
Hi Ricsi!

You are very, very right about the Serbs occupying former Hungarian lands, complete with Hungarians who are always in danger! It's the last part that really bothers me! I'm not sure they are good "caretakers" for what they "inherited" back in 1919! Of all the "Little Entente" partners, they are the ones that scare me the most! They make the Slovaks and Romanians seem like very jolly and decent people by comparison! I'd rather emigrate to Somalia than live under the Serb flag as a Hungarian! If anti-Hungarian violence increases over there, I know where I stand, and I won't mince words!

Ricsi--well yes, but I was speaking more about national character than national borders.

Has anyone gone to Serbia lately? Can anyone give a firsthand (or second hand) "progress" report on how they are doing socially and economically?

Easily, the post is actually one of the best write up on positive thinking. I fit in with your conclusions and will eagerly look forward to your incoming updates. Just saying thanks will not just be adequate, for the exceptional clarity in your writing. I will at once grab your rss feed to stay informed of any updates. Admirable work and much success in your business efforts! Stay positive.

@ FL

The article is dated January 29, 2009

Your name is the only name I recognize in the postings.

It states in part: "Szent-Ivanyi said it was incomprehensible that the Serbian parliament still had not set the date for passing a basic treaty for Vojvodina province ......"

Almost a year has gone by - what has changed to improve the situation for Hungarians?

Live Life wrote that the article demonstrated "positive thinking" - a move in the right direction Hopefully you will reply that the positive thinking has been implemented with some positive actions.

Olga,

"Live Life wrote that the article demonstrated "positive thinking"

Click through on 'Live Life' and you'll see it goes nowhere in particular, nor does the post say anything in particular. There have quite a lot of these turning up on dead threads - I think they're meant to generate traffic, but I'm waiting for someone technically competent to explain it to me.

@Sophist: Again, not much to add. Normally, following a suggestion Google made some years ago (seems like decades ago now), comments on weblogs that included links should automatically have a property called nofollow added to them (rel="nofollow").
This means that search engines would ignore them. In the old days people would make inane comments, hundreds of them, on the top ranking websites and blogs and link to themselves and hence end up with their website highly ranked.
On the All Hungary Media Group websites they have removed this 'nofollow' link as they pass all links through their own central filter so that they can monitor traffic and usage more closely. So a link will look something like: http://www.allhungary.hu/mt/mt-comments.cgi?__mode=red;id=31022
This encourages spam postings which can be easily automated and as we all know the admin could be improved. Without the nofollow added to the link there is an incentive to spam.
Hence the spurious posts.

Hi Sophist

Thanks.

The good news for me is that it brought an old topic to my attention..

Before I ask questions, I usually try to figure out the answers on my own, so I found a website for the VMSZ .

Looks like nothing has happened until the September 30th update below and I could find no updates since then.
“A website for The Alliance of Hungarians will not accept any change to the Statut

Istvan Pasztor, the leader of the Alliance of Hungarians is convinced that the Serbian parliament will soon start to debate the Voivodinan Statut. He also told autonomija.info that there have been many obsticles on the Statut’s way, and the bigger is to come. But he is assured that after it everything will work perfectly. Pasztor also emphasized that his party will not accept any change, except terminology and typos. Vajdaság Ma”
Since Szent-Ivanyi said it was incomprehensible that the Serbian parliament was dragging its feet to pass a basic treaty for Vojvodina already approved by the local parliament, then debating it in September is even more incomprehensible. Not to mention it’s now December.
BTW, I tried what you said - put the Cursor on "live life" and it directed me to some website. However, the only two names that do that is this one and Vandoro's. No one else's name has that option. Weird.

Olga: names on the forum here that are underlined are hyperlinks. The ones that are underlined should take you to websites. If you have a link that you want people to associate with your name, just type it in the URL box below your name and email in the 'Leave a Comment' box.