Conservative opposition Fidesz party chairman Viktor Orban pledged to grant Hungarian citizenship to ethnic Hungarians in Ukraine at a meeting in Uzhgorod (W Ukraine) on Saturday. Ethnic Hungarian leader Miklos Kovacs said the adoption of such a law would be a nice gesture.
In Hungary changes would soon take place, Orban told a meeting of the ethnic Hungarian cultural association KMKSZ.
He said time would come for the Hungarian parliament to address again the law on the status of ethnic Hungarians in neighbouring countries.
The conservative party campaigned for granting Hungarian citizenship to ethnic Hungarians in a referendum that failed on December 5, 2004.
Head of KMKSZ, Miklos Kovacs said it would be a nice gesture if such a bill were passed.
Although Ukrainian regulations forbid dual citizenship, it is important how Hungary relates to Hungarians outside the borders, he said.
In Kovacs’s opinion it is hard to tell now how many ethnic Hungarians would be interested in receiving Hungarian citizenship, as it would not involve eligibility to the Hungarian social security system.
Some 150,000 ethnic Hungarians live in Ukraine’s Subcarpathia region.
What is the point? The economy is the issue, not a few ethnic Hungarians on the other side of the border.
If these people were so important to HU, then why does HU make it so difficult for them to get in in the first place and start working here? Is this a sort of twisted version of Putin’s peacekeepers handing out Russian passports in Georgia as a prelude to annexing territory?
Kind of scary that the PM in the wings lack prioritization skills.
@Rolrox
Why do you think that a Hungarian politician goes to see how the
Hungarian minorities are doing in the neigbourhood has anything
to do with the economy? and btw it’s defenetely an issue among
the Magyarok, where foreign opininos does not count..
Rolox. I believe you are absolutely correct about priorities. It gives me no feeling of optimism that Orban is already meddling in the ethnic, Hugarian business, when this country is about to go bankrupt. The drum beats louder for total chaos to start,soon. No, vain promise, either.
“btw it’s defenetely an issue among
the Magyarok, where foreign opininos does not count.”
Robi, then why feel the need to come here to an expat, english-driven, website and tell us? If our opinions don’t matter, why waste your valuable time arguing them?
@Robi: I’d say the issue also concerns the Ukrainians, and they may not think Hungary’s opinion counts.
Instead of immediately passing all of this off as nationalist meddling and nonsense – consider that it is a simple feeling of obligation that a government (or potential government) might have to assist those of its own ethnicity in other countries.
Canada would not hesitate to do the same if there was a minority of Canadians living under difficult conditions, alienation etc… somewhere else in the world.
Have any of you been to visit Hungarian Minorities in neighbouring countries? Have any of you actually spoken with them?
This is no different than what the concentration of Belgians born in Germany receive (they gleefully hand-out citizenship). Or what Serbian, Romanian minorities elsewehere receive from their counties.
Unfortunately much is lost in translation when people do not speak the language – issues are mistinterpreted. This is one of the challenges of being hungarian. Please take a closer look at this issue.
I stick with my previous position. Nothing said here explains how this is a more burning issue.
Justifying it by saying “you don’t know the HU’s” is both an assumption and runs counter to persuading me that Orban is able to prioritize (which is exactly my point). Going further to attack foreigners on a website for foreigners who care about HU is like punching your best mate as a way of thanks.
On the last part, that foreign opinion doesn’t count, again I disagree. HU cares a great deal what the outside world thinks, if only to keep money flowing into the country. You’re a case in point. Why would you come here and spout unless you wanted to influence us foreigners?
Robi, I welcome the input from you. Try to consider the “bigger” picture and don’t assume that if somebody points out a flaw it means everything / body else is 100% flawed. It might just be that we care enough to try to highlight errors and opportunities so that resources and policy can be redeployed sooner.
@Isti. Ethnic Canadians or Belgians? You’re talking about indians on the one hand and Flems or whatever on the other (the latter are verging on revolution). You’ve not even dealt with the point, why give out citizenship if the people aren’t welcome to migrate across the border? Why would you want them if they aren’t going to pay taxes? Why would they join up if you don’t plan to cover them with welfare?
PS, Enlighten me, what do Serbian minorities receive from Belgrade?
Reading the comments makes you wish for some empathy. The
fact is that these people, by no fault of their own suffered the
odd event of a border crossing over them (due to the Brits and
the Americans being too disinterested to do anything other than
go home and allow a Frenchman with seemingly a peculiar
distaste of Hungarians to re-draw the map). The point is, surely,
that if we were to apply a little bit of empathy, we’d understand
the reasons for making such an offer. If you were in a horrible
accident, would you leave your mangled, half-severed limbs at
the hospital to be incinerated, or would you take the home in a
jar of formaldehyde to talk to and be near? Or, would you want
them to be recycled for someone else? All this aside, we hear
everyone banging on about the nationalist cause as though it
were a horrible Hungarian disease…have we forgotten that our
countries are meant to be run for the nation? This, perhaps, is
the reason we have national government (well, excepting
Hungary, that is). In America, it seems that you can be shot by
the police for not wearing a flag at all times…how come it’s seen
in a different light when it’s Hungary?
@C’est
Tie comenting for registration or just move this out of .hu
domain (that would be the best) and I will never bother you I
promise! the only reason why I’m here is my uncle started to
read it and I1ve found it very ntertaining to see how people
making the wildest opinion like you without even the basic
knowledge of the subject, Hungary, Hungarian politics. IF you
live in hungary that that dream world you live in is verry, verry
funny. And I also belive that, you should talk to those people
who doesn’t agree with your iponion, might be usefull… of
chorse if you only enjoy the echo of your own woice is your
problem, but then do not run a site like this!
@Erik
For me that is ok, in Ukrain Hungarian opinion doesn’t count,
but if give Hungarians citizenship what they could do shoot
them? (Actually EU des not do anything against thing like that
happaning in Slovakia what is a member country, why they
would care with Ukraine…)
Let’s put it that way if Serbia would give double citizenship
Serbians living here I would not care actually I’d be happy. If
Serbia would pay for the Serbian tv programme here on the
statern tv or print their schoolbooks that would make me
extremely happy. And unlike them in Romania, Slovakia and
Serbia and the Ukrain I do not feel less if they use their linguage
in public, what they teach in thier schools and for me it’s natural
that they use thier linguage and the content of History books are
diffrent. That’s all we wan’t on a mutal base!
Indeed, as Tufty points out, it is a question of empathy (not money or the economy).
Yes, as we all know, borders were re-drawn quite arbitrarily and families were divided – leaving a couple of million people who identify with Hungarian culture by themsleves. In many instances they were not permitted to follow their customs or speak their language in an official capacity. (A good area to look into might be some of the folklore and related history – i.e. Gyorgy Martin and his body of research).
In my experience, the Hungarians in Transylvania for example, have no desire to leave their home or birthplace – it is only a question of some recognition from a country with which they identify. To add: Serbia is quite ready to hand-out Serbian citizenship to those Serbians living in smaller pockets throughout the Balkans and in fact Europe. The same is true for Romania.
I do not intend to minimize any contributions out there – including this good website. I think the insight that westerners and english speakers can offer in Hungary can be quite valuable. As a dual (Canadian-Hungarian) citizen and someone who is an open minded, liberal type of person, I find that westerners will often blindly associate themselves with the Hungarian Left, when in fact, the Hungarian Left is more like the Canadian Right (or neo-Liberals) in many ways. One way I would suggest is that the Hungarian left tend to believe in little need for a social safety net or a recognition of those in need.
Rolrox: Ethnic Canadians or Belgians?
I did not make reference to the First Nations people of Canada – just a hypothetical reference to the Canadian Government – or any Government for that matter – which would support and recognize people of their own heritage/ethnicity without hesitation. Especially if they lived elsewhere in a more dire situation.
In Belgium, I was simply refering to the German minorities (East Canton) where things have in comparison gone along swimmingly. They essentially operate autonomously and receive much support from Germany. Of course this is greatly overshadowed by the the constant bickering by the dominant ethnic groups.
The above comment was from me…isti
Robi – What happened? Did someone else use your username or were you just writing angry, because I really didn’t understand your post at all. I don’t run this site and I do listen to other people’s opinions, I just choose not to dwell on issues which are 90 years old…it’s like those who drone on about Slavery reparations.
It would be a great honour to finally get a Magyar citizenship. I was born in former Jugoslavia in újvidék (Novi-Sad) and now living in Canada. I attended a Hungarian school as a youngster and have kept up my mother tongue both speaking and reading.
I’m not interested in any kind of social assistance as I agree that, that should not be part of the deal. I would be simply happy to have the citizenship given to those of us who ended up on the wrong side of the Hungarian border.
I recently spent 30days in Budapest with my 23 year old daughter, and we had the opportunity to immersed ourselves in the city. We both felt like we were at home.What a joy to hear ones’ mother tongue spoken all around you!
Hungarians need to unite! There are not that many of us and we need to continue and pass on the history to our children.
‘Orbán offers Hungarian citizenship to ethnic Hungarians in Ukraine’
And exactly how will this be funded??
Not from the 16 Billion Hungarys has just borowed I hope.
Mr Orban needs to concetrate on the 10 Million Hungarians INSIDE HUNGARY before he goes chasing the ghosts of Trianon.
This is VERY clear evidence of the CUNNING Ploys used by Mr Orban and his party.
He has picked a subject that (mistakenly) many Hungarians feel is till relevent, beacuse Hungary has mis-taught its own History over this mattter.
At a time when the ugly spectre of Nationalism is set to rear its Ugly head one again in Hungary Mr Orban has saught favour witha large and misled number of people in Hungary.
Last time i looked the 10 million or more people that choose to live in Hungary and DO pay (a Horrific Rate) tax to do so… Were not having exactly a great time of it??
Does Hungary really need a leader that so clearly doesn’t have his eyes where they should be??
Hungary at another crossroads in its History and about to take the wrong turn yet again.
When ALL the problems that beset RESIDENT HUNGARIANS are being addressed would be the time to consider how other NON RESIDENT HUNGARIANS might be helped.
Last time i looked there wasn’t any money left in the Tea Pot or have some of those vanished Millions returned home??
FAO Bacsi! Apologies in advance if what I’m saying seems out of
line, but what exactly is wrong with nationalism? Surely you’re
not confusing it with racism? Do we not see other nations? Do
we not wonder why they’re not embarrassed to show national
pride? Are we not astonished by the hypocrisy of Hungary where
nationalism is openly encouraged in sport but beaten back in
the one area where it’s considered (at least in most countries
around the world) to be important?! If nationalism is such a
bloody fearful concept, then why is everyone else embracing it?
Doesn’t it piss you off just the smallest bit that an American
(and let’s face it, with their looong history of immigration, isn’t it
a bit surprising that they’re one of the loudest supporters of
nationalism?) is castigated for now banging on continually about
how theirs is the greatest country in the world, whilst we have to
listen to MPs lecture us on the inapproriateness of a historical
Hungarian flag that isn’t only seen in the streets, but also in the
main chamber of the Hungarian parliament, and upon which MPs
take an oath of allegiance?? If I, as a non-Hungarian find that
this sort of shit gets my goat, what am I not getting that seems
to keep the rest of you hiding in the corner, ashamed of even
admitting that you belong to a nation, for fear of being labelled
“nationalistic”. Let us not forget that without the concept of
nations, we’d be living in a pretty fucked up world!
I have NO problem with APPROPRIATE NATIONALISM and that certainly DOES NOT extend to Nazis rallying in Heroes Square or anywhere else for that matter……
Just look back and consider an consider WHAT exactly we feeling so proud about??
Hungarys true recent history makes shocking reading and when the truth is accepted by the masses and the denials can be brushed aside, we might be able to see the way forward.
We could and should feel national pride in the belief that salvation might still be had.
$16 Billion Dollars should also tells us that we have some way to go before we understand and accept our own failings.
We don’t have to look too far away or too far back to see where this kind of nationalism can lead.
Nationalism is incorrectly encouraged in Hungary by people that use the Misplaced loyaly of honest Hungarians for their own selfish ends.
To use America as a yardstick is 100% wrong.
That is a Country that uses its nationalism to segregrate and discrimante against minorities in its own country.(Hungary knows a little about that I reckon)
When America says ‘jobs for Americans’ or ‘America First’. What it means is White America not America as a whole…
Only idiots use America as an indicator of anything and by the way if you hadn’t noticed, We are living in a ‘Fucked up World’..
In Hungarys case, this has been done by those we thought could be trusted…
We surely don’t need to make those same mistakes again do we???
FAO Bacsi.
Bacsi, Like I stated, it wasn’t my intention to twang your strings
or anything, my point was that perhaps if we weren’t so gullible
in allowing everyone to dictate the mantra that: “Nationalism
(well, for Hungarians, at least) is bad!”, then we wouldn’t have
ended up with a government whose mantra was to do the
opposite of serving the nation, for which they took an oath.
There’s nothing unnatural about nationalism, it’s part of the
basis of the differences between us all. What I have a problem
with is the fact that we tell our kids that they’re
better/brighter/more whatever than the kids next door and
then, here in Hungary, we lose sight of the fact that telling your
kids that they’re not the same as all the other kids and allow
politicians to muddy the waters regarding what is, essentially an
extension of what we tell our kids! OK, fair comment regarding
the US…it’s not my intention to single them out as a scapegoat,
it’s just the most obvious example due to the power and
influence they wield. I just think that all messages from the
outside world (not that there are many) seem to state,
repeatedly, that what’s good for us, is forbidden for you. Fine,
let them preach this message if that makes them feel better, but
for the love of all things holy, if there is no Hungarian nation per
se, then let’s all run to get international passports. Oh, hang on,
that wouldn’t work…none of the other nations would surrender
their sovereignty. Bummer, eh?!
Tufty: Thank you for your thoughts – I would hope most honest, well-meaning Hungarians agree with you. Indeed, there is always a place for friendly patriotism and appropriate nationalism. Unfortunately there are a few too many reactionary, uninformed, materialistic Hungarians who disagree. For example:
Bacsi: “Last time i looked the 10 million or more people that choose to live in Hungary and DO pay (a Horrific Rate) tax to do so… Were not having exactly a great time of it??”
That is the point – the ethnic minorities outside of Hungary did not make a decision to be cut-off from their country of origin. It was done for them. If you looked more closely into the matter you would also realize it is a kinship, or friendly allegiance they feel; to be Hungarian is part of their identity. Keep in mind: many would also not consider abandoning their place of birth – whether it be the Ukraine or Uj Videk or Transylvania.
Bacsika: Maybe all you care about is having low taxes, more money and name-brand clothing. But how dare you try to minimize their identity with such offensive comments. Go visit them – I’m certain they’ll be far more accepting of you than you are of them.
There is no work for Hungarians who have lived here all their lives.
If we project Orban Victor’s ideas one stage further: where does he intend to find employment say, for half a million, ethnic Hungarians?
Meanwhile, in the background, there is the Roma problem of integration, education, and introducing new work skill programmes.
There is no money in the pot now to do anything.
And, if you didn’t know it already – this country is bankrupt of not only money, but ideas, skills,
and lacks the determination for wholesale reform.
Borrowed time, and borrowed money, that is the true situation, here, in Hungary.
The French revoloution was known as “the reign of terror”.
Gyurcsany’s contribution will go down in the annals as the “reign of error”.
Isty;
Please don’t accise me of trying to MINIMIZE the identity of these displaced Hungarian decendants.
It is in fact YOU that is trying to MAXIMIZE them, because it suits you to do so..
You like many, many Hungarians is forgetiing that backing the wrong horse in 2 World Wars comes with a price.
Other Countries that made similar errors of judgement paid a far higher price than few areas of annexed land.
However modern day Hungarians choose to look at the current situation of these displaced peoples, they are as always failing to accept ANY responsibility for their plight.
I would suggest that these people are recieving the treatment that reflects Hungary co-existance with its bidering countries for the last 300 years or so…
As they say ‘you reap what you sow’? These poor people are getting some long overdue pay back that others feel Hungary deserves.
In addition to this the countries/regimes involved are amongst the most poorly informed and educated in the 21st Century, so don’t expect any favours from them. Retards are just that retards… Look up the meaning in a dictionary and you’ll understand my choice of words.
I personally know Hungarians living Rumania and although they don’t have a wonderful life, they would not consider moving themselves to Hungary!!
So don’t think for one minute that all these people you think as you do, don’t assume that your feelings are shared by those you seem to speak on behalf of?
Save the indignation?
Bacsi, I diagree with you and in fact don’t even really follow what you are saying. But your language…i.e.
“Retards are just that retards…”
…speaks volumes.
Bobajob: where does he intend to find employment say, for half a million, ethnic Hungarians?
The point is there would never be such an influx. This is irrational leftist fearmongering.
isty:
Don’t twist words to suit your own purpose please…
I never said anything about any influx? Your choice of words NOT mine.
But the fact that you say you don’t understand ME speaks volumes?
That statement just shouts DENIAL. Too Many people just can’t accept the responsibilty for anything.
It’s always somebody elses fault isn’t it?
Perhaps what I’ve said doesn’t sit well with your views? Sorry about that???
We can all play dumb, when neccesary eh!
Just to spell it out for you:
What I’m saying is that Hungary is pretty much 100% to blame for the situation that these displaced people now face.
If you are not ready to accpet 1% of that blame, then you are not ready for the changes that need to take place in Hungary.
Please log back on in 50 years time.
To address the most important question here:
- What is an “Ethnic Hungarian”?
Well, that is everyone who registered to be it, like in Hungary you can register to belong to the Italian minority in Hungary.
It is funny that all these Hungarian “Nationalists” always want to give Hungarian Citizenship to the Roma in Romania, while marching street up and down to throw them out of their neighbourhood.
Actually Romanian “Nationalists” have no problem that their Roma registers as “Ethnic Hungarians”, nice to see that both Hungarian and Romanian “Nationalists” can agree on something.
Soon we are waiting for that “Ethnic Hungarian” (read Roma) 12-year old boy, that was thrown out of Hungary 1-2 years ago after terrorizing the nice people of Pest, to come back as a grown up “Real Hungarian” gangster, now equipped with a nice Hungarian passport. I suppose he will get a job as Security Guard in Viktor Orban Father’s mine, that the Father bought for small money after being the Communist Party Secretary.
I don’t think we can accuse Roma of being the only corrupt element in Hungary can we???
I very much dislike it when people blame Roma for behaving in a particular way and fail to see the reasons behind that behaviour..
If you know the phrases ‘Action & Re-action’ & ‘Cause and Effect’ you will be able to look at things from a less blinkered perpective???
If we spend a little time to stop wondering WHO did what and consider WHY exactly they did it, we might be better off by far.
It is the 21st Century and I tire of seeing and hearing unjustified negativity applied to certain ehthnic groups in Hungary.
In other more civilized countries these actions are publicly decried and the instigators punished.
This kind of behaviour singles out Hungary as a nation that has some distnace to travel on many racial issues.
Bacsi: “I very much dislike it when people blame Roma for behaving in a particular way and fail to see the reasons behind that behaviour.”
I would agree. In many western countries – certain minorities are often over represented in prison for example (african-americans; aboriginals). However, like with the Roma in Hungary, this should be seen as a larger social problem rather than something to be constantly highlighted out of context. Only then will true solutions arise. This is why comments by people like Viking are pretty scary.
Viking: “It is funny that all these Hungarian “Nationalists” always want to give Hungarian Citizenship to the Roma in Romania.”
You believe the ethnic Hungarians in Romania to be Roma? Sounds like uninformed, unwarranted, racially motivated MSzP fear mongering. It may be the case in some instances though it is overwhelmingly untrue. And so what? Have you been there? Go for visit.
Bacsi: “I very much dislike it when people blame Roma for behaving in a particular way and fail to see the reasons behind that behaviour.”
I would agree. In many western countries – certain minorities are often over represented in prison for example (african-americans; aboriginals). However, like with the Roma in Hungary, this should be seen as a larger social problem rather than something to be constantly highlighted out of context. Only then will true solutions arise. This is why comments by people like Viking are pretty scary.
Viking: “It is funny that all these Hungarian “Nationalists” always want to give Hungarian Citizenship to the Roma in Romania.”
You believe the ethnic Hungarians in Romania to be Roma? Sounds like uninformed, unwarranted, racially motivated MSzP fear mongering. It may be the case in some instances though it is overwhelmingly untrue. And so what? Have you been there? Go for visit.
Hungary is in big trouble. All your incestuous posturings on these pages won’t change that. Good old Vicky chooses to ignore the crisis within the present Hungarian boundaries and goes in search of more trouble abroad. Perhaps looking for likely Fidesz voters?
The ‘talk on the street’ does not reflect what is being said here, about Roma, either.
Drink your Palinka, salute the flag, clog these page with discussion about Horthy and other such erstwhile Hungarian heroes.
We have enough evidence on this site to convict you all as accomplices before and after the fact in electing time after time – corrupt and incompetent governments. First accused stand forward- Gyurscany Ferenc.
@Isti:
It looks like we can agree on somethings my friend after all??
As I posted, I really do dislike certain minorities always being picked upon..
It’s unfair to single out the Roma and accuse them of this and that, simply beacuse it’s easy to do so.
That doesn’t show very much intellect does it? and even less the depth to look beyond the headlines at the root causes of thes problems?
When any group is so very disadvantaged in such a small country, they will always be the easy target of certain haters.
To my mind the is one of the lowest and most common forms of racism today and Hungary is not gaining any friends by allowing the continuation of such behaviour.
Isti: your point about minorities being over represented in prison and such is and excellent analogy and Hungarys establishmant would do well to steer away from this path.
You only have to look at the demographics of amarican prisons to realize that something is horribly wrong. Surely we don’t want to be looked upon by others as American currently is???
These are serious issues that need to be addressed very soon if Hungary is not going to be brought to task by an exasperated EU over these matters.
Hungary certainly DOESN’T like having its rights revoked/challeged… So best we put our own house in order soon?