Hungary infringes on international law by still lacking legislation to penalise Holocaust denial, international lawyer Laszlo Valki told MTI on Monday.
Hungary has continuously and seriously been offending international law since it has failed to enact its own law called for in an article in the UN’s 1965 International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, said Valki.
Under Article 4, signatories to the convention “shall declare an offence punishable by law all dissemination of ideas based on racial superiority or hatred, incitement to racial discrimination”, Valki quoted the article as saying.
He added that signatories shall declare illegal and prohibit organisations, which promote and incite racial discrimination.
“Hungary should have, based on article 4, enacted a law penalising Holocaust denial, similarly to Germany that had done so at a just time,” he said.
Valki said it was unclear why some of the parliamentary parties and Hungary’s Constitutional Court had been ignoring the International Convention adopted in New York and signed by Hungary decades before.
Valki’s response came after radical nationalist groups including 60 members of the paramilitary Hungarian Guard staged a Holocaust denying demonstration at the Budapest German Embassy on Saturday.
Budapest police have initiated proceedings against two Hungarian Guard members who spoke before 200 supporters at the demo saying that “nothing of the Holocaust was true”.
On Monday, education and culture minister Istvan Hiller initiated in parliament the penalisation of Holocaust denial.
So if this article existed since 1965,why didnt his beloved commie regime enforce it,or the first democratic governments ?? Why now ? What are these
“liberalists’ really scared of ,the truth ??
And what Fabian, if I may ask, is the truth then?
“Holocaust denial is explicitly or implicitly illegal in 13 countries: Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, France, Germany, Israel, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Poland, Portugal, Romania, and Switzerland. Slovakia made Holocaust denial a crime in late 2001 but repealed the legislation in May 2005. Spain decriminalized Holocaust denial in October 2007.[99] Italy rejected a draft Holocaust denial law proposing a prison sentence of up to four years in 2007, the Netherlands rejected a draft law proposing a maximum sentence of one year in 2006 and before this the United Kingdom twice rejected a Holocaust denial law. Denmark and Sweden also have rejected Holocaust denial legislation.”
This issue is linked to our EU membership. Pressure on our govt. to make some enforcement has to come out front or “behind the scenes” from the other member states, who are more affected by a liberal, PC ruled “multicultural” ethos.
We are a “stray dog” that was allowed to come in off the street and let into a banquet room where rich men are dining. Their history and experience is not our experience. The countries where “PC/multiculturalism” has been long established, are just very different from us. They evolved differently.
This subject has one important morality lesson for us. The Jews, being a fantastically potent people, have friends and influence everywhere, among many countries and international organizations. Their reach is far and wide. To mess with them in any way is like kissing an electrified fence. Best not to do it.
I am one Hungarian who is rather inspired not by their substance, but by their style. I’ve long held here and elsewhere, that their style of influence peddling is something we could learn from. Why shouldn’t WE buy off people and influence them publicly and behind the scenes? God I wish we knew how to look out for ourselves like the way they do.
The fact that there are people on here that are even prepared to Still try and Argue FOR Denial of the Holocaust say agreat deal about the ‘Problems’ that afflict Hungary today.
Laszlo you are right when you say Hungary is the ‘stray dog’ in the equations and that Hungary has ‘evolved differently’..
Well done my Friend you’ve really used excellent terminology to sum the situation up very well indeed.
All that said, Hungary does have an obligatiry commitment to EU Law and is considered in some quarters as of the EU as very backward in allowing this kind of sistuation to go unchecked for such a long time.
I ask you, do you see Nazis being allowed to march in Trafalgar Square in London???
Do they stop traffic and lay out chairs for the Nazis below the Eifel Tower in Paris or outside the German Riechstag (Parliament)Building in Berlin????????
I don’t think so…….
Thanks Bacsi,
For those that are curious about what I think of this subject from a historical standpoint let me share my experience.
Years ago, in an antique bookstore, I came across a 12 volume set, published by the US govt. printing office in the late 1940′s, of the transcripts of the Nuremberg Trials. As a passionate student of not just Hungarian history, but history in general, I acquired the set.
The defendents were allowed to choose their own legal counsel. Many of them did that and got some the best lawyers in Germany to represent them.
When it came to the treatment of the Jews in the camps, the defense alleged one of two things: “I didn’t know about it” (Goering’s defense), or “I was just following orders.” (The defense of the underlings.) Keep in mind that these defendents were on trial for their lives, and they well knew it. Nowhere throughout the reading of the trial transcript does any defendent say that mass killing didn’t happen. I’ve often wondered, if it didn’t happen as some say, or it was all a wild exaggeration, then why didn’t the defendents and their slick lawyers allege that? Wouldn’t that have been the time and place to make such a claim? That would have been the ideal moment to deny it all. None of them did, yet they all faced the hangman’s noose. The one ex-leader who didn’t deny it was Albert Speer.
Here are the trial transcipts from Harverd Law School:
http://nuremberg.law.harvard.edu/php/docs_swi.php?DI=1&text=overview
@Laszlo
Like you I too have read quite extensively on the subject but i am also lucky enough to have known a Jewish Survivor of Auschwitz who was a good friend of my Father.
What he informed me was much of what is not spoken of or written in books…
Even now over 40 years on, I still have moments when his words ring clear in my mind, such was the effect on me and the power they carried..
I think that all Holocuast deniars should be made to justify thier words and be judged ‘Fairly’on what is then said in defense of such statements.
In reference to your comment that nobody actually ‘denied’ the killing didn’t happen is 100% correct.
That said as far as I am aware there is also NO documented record of any German soldier or civilian being punished or executed for refusing to take part in the killings??
It is a period of History that cannot be changed and also (thankfully) cannot be ‘Denied’?
It is true that for some people it is simply too terrible to admit that such things can be done by one human to another and yet, even when confronted with the facts.. there are still those that would (as we’ve just seen) be prepared to deny!!
I don’t however believe that whatever punsihment are metered out to these people, that it will halt the ‘underground’ network of deniars.
Hopefully this will encourage the Hungarian Government to NOT allow it’s National Sqaure to be the rallying point for this kind of activity in the future.
Still we have our freedom to think and express our views and be able to question any part of History any!! but this one part is off limits why?? what are they trying to hide?? Truth needs no law to protection only lies!!
@whatthe
Let’s try and be clear shall we…
First of all WHO are you reffering to when you write ‘THEY’??
Secondly, you are right in so much as YOU can choose to question any part of History YOU so choose…
After all that IS a VERY Hungarian Past-Time isn’t it??
Question all you like. It’s only worthwhile or serves any purpose if you have some NEW Revalationthat is going to make ALL PREVIOUS accounts of the Holocaust INCORRECT???
PLEASE LET EVERYONE KNOW IF THIS IS THE CASE!!!
If not probably best to leave it there eh…
HAVING SAID THAT YOUR FINAL STATEMENT WOULD SEEM TO SUGGEST THAT ‘YOU’ ARE IN FACT ‘ALSO’ SAYING THAT THE HOLOCAUST IS A ‘LIE’!!!!!!
PLEASE BE AWARE THAT IS ALSO ILLEGAL TO WRITE DOWN DENIALS AS WELL…….
I’D URGE A LIITLE CAUTION IN YOUR WRITING FROM NOW, ON THIS SUBJECT……
That is if you don’t also want to look like a complete fool……
Jesus is a fine example of what happened over 2000 years ago!
Ohh there was a spark from the Electric Fence! Hot topic it seems, A passionate topic!
I think we need to distinguish between current, and very valid rights of free speech and expression, versus historical allegations and proof. The former belongs to us all, whatever our viewpoint. The latter is the work of historians.
Some deny the existence of ghosts, or UFO’s, Holocaust or whatever. The standards of historical evidence are a matter for academia; the review process is different. No professional historian can keep his post by denying the Holocaust, because like in a court of law, he will not be able to show enough proof for his case to convince a jury of his peers.
My mother told me that in the closing months of the war, she recalled the Germans mass rounding up the Jews in our country to be put aboard trains. She knew enough German, and was friendly enough with a number of them, to hear from the German soldiers themselves that they seriously questioned the sense of this. One told her that here we are, the Russians are only a few short hundred kiloneters away from us and we should be fighting them with every man we have, and yet here we are utilising our military manpower in rounding up these people! He shook his head to her and said that I really don’t get it. Makes no sense. (It only made sense to the “Fuehrer”)
The Jews are strong. What if we had the clout to make agreement with the results of the Trianon treaty a crime throughout the EU?!! If WE had that kind of influence, it would really blow my mind!
Perfect way to box in the mind of people to restrict there real potential, lets place them in the conspiracy box.. very backward or gutless approach..
The one Nuremberg defendent, to my knowledge who not only did not deny the Holocaust but took and accepted personal and moral responsibility for it was Hitlers’ pampered architect cum armaments minister, Albert Speer.
Speer accepted full responsibility and complicity for the crimes of the regime he worked for. For this the court at Nuremberg was duly impressed and gave him “only” 20 years sentence. (The Russina judge of course wanted to hang him nonetheless.) Upon release, Speer wrote a number of books, the first called “Inside The Third Reich”. He wrote a few other books after that. Some have criticised his take on history, but on the subject of the Holocaust, he is very plain; it happened, and he was partially, morally responsible.
Whether the denial of the Holocaust should be a “crime”, is of course a very different matter. Committing and believing are two different things! I think that people should believe as they wish, and have the freedom to express themselves. Their intellectual credibility is up to the judgement of the people.
Uhhh, can someone please disable the caps lock on Bacsi’s keyboard and pour the man a nice glass of palinka?
There is many anomilies during the trials!
http://judicial-inc.biz/Nuremberg_Trial_Hoaxes.htm
Hitlers’ psychosis about blood and racial purity is given an interesting take in a long out of print book called “I Was Hitlers Doctor” (1943), by Kurt Krueger, MD.
This is available on http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?bi=0&bx=off&ds=30&sortby=1&tn=i+was+hitlers+doctor&x=0&y=0, used book website. (Price ranges from $2 US to $99 US)
Krueger was a German Army staff psychiatrist, whose weird job it was to counsel men affected by the First World War. Hitler was ordered to see him by his superiors, as he must have shown the appropriate signs of mental and emotional instability as a result of the long conflict.
Hitler was Kruegers’ patient for a number of years of conseling sessions. In these sessions, the future “leader” told him a lot of extremely personal things. The most salient was that he recalled at an early age of 6 or so, catching his mother “in the act” with the village Jewish grocer. He admitted to Krueger that this mortified him, not just visually (Who wants to catch their mommy in the act with another man?), but morally. It made him question his own ancestry, and wonder whether he himself might not have been half Jewish. There were a number of people in his home village of Branau-Am-Inn, who were taken away after his annexation of Austria in 1938. The “inconvenient witnesses”.
Krueger himself was a most inconvenient witness after his patient came to power in 1933. The Doctor had the sense to realize his life was in danger and fled.
Albert Speer was one, very clever, individual, indeed.
He was inclined to say the things the ‘court’ wanted to hear. And, in so doing, saved his precious, little, neck!!!
Architect to armaments minister? Strange choice for Hitler to make. But, he was right, for once.
Speer was a success. Fortunately, for most of us, he was hindered by a lot of high-ranking nazis who sometimes prevented the ex-architect from employing tactics that would have perhaps delivered a different outcome to WW11.
Who knows? – Read “Inside the Third Reich”.
(L.Farkas and I have.)
Mariska. Disable Bacsi. Even better!
Pikey, dude!!
Speers’ designs were a “hashish dream” by any architectural standard!(We would have a very hard time building them today, even with our resources and technology!)
He was working for a very weird boss wasn’t he? (Speers’ father, who was also was an architect, when he saw the wild schenes and dreams that his son was designing, said something to the effect, that you have all lost your minds!!) He should have listened to his daddy!
The point about him saying what the court wanted to hear is course well taken. What I respect was that after his release, he seemed to have gained soul and insight, and spent the rest of his life in humility and repentance for what he was involved in.
Incarceration sometimes improves a certain kind of man, and it seemed to have worked for Speer. The other great historical example I can give is that of Benvenuto Cellini, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benvenuto_Cellini), described as a master artist and hooligan of the Renaissance. He was a grade “A” jackoff, until he got in trouble with the authorites and wound up in prison. There, he found himself at the deepest level and emerged a deep,self reflective man.
Happy Belated Birthday Hitler
I get so amused around here sometimes! It could be what a person says, the other times it’s their username!
He was born in April! Thanks for that reminder “Helena Petrovna”! Hungary is certainly one nation that needs to “consult with the masters.” Quiji boards and seances would be appropriate tools for our leaders!
Yours truly,
“Koot Humi”
Allam-Bacsi,
“I’D URGE A LIITLE CAUTION IN YOUR WRITING FROM NOW, ON THIS SUBJECT……”
Fuck you asshole.
Freedom of Speech includes the Freedom to Say Idiotic Things as part of the deal. The surest way to turn one cretin making a speech to 200 fellow travellers into a really serious problem is to make a big issue of it and throw him in jail. For myself, I would steer clear of anything with the Orwellian sounding title of International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination. The fact that the EU technocrats are pushing it is all the more reasons to give it a miss. The EU is probably even more anti free speech than any other political entity on the planet, with the possible exception of North Korea. For a glimpse of the EU future, look here…http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,25361297-7583,00.html?from=public_rss
It is wrong to prosecute people because they belong to a certain group. It is outrageous that innocent people were taken to prison camps and forced to do slave labor. The nazis learned this from Stalin’s Soviet Union. Watch the documentary titled The Soviet Story. The mass murder of Jewish people in a systematic way became an established fact that must be accepted as it is. And yes there are many many pieces of very convincing evidence supporting it. As the Holocaust is the most widely known mass murder of innocent people, I want to stress that it is not the only one. For example, the Holodomor (the mass starvation of the Ukrainians in the winter of 1932-33 where 7 million people died) is not as well known because it is not exposed in the media on a daily basis. The genocide in Rwanda where 1 million people perished was nobody’s interest and went almost unnoticed. These other genocides do not make the pain and suffering of the Jews any more or any less than it still is. The survivors of those nations will never forget what was done to their kins either. They just do not get the media exposure and the huge sums of money that comes with it. Unfortunately, many Jewish people ‘ride’ the Shoa ‘business’ to enrich themselves. Now this bothers many people and they want to separate the lies from the facts. Prosecuting someone who honestly wants to look into these matters to find out the truth is totally wrong and outrageous too. What makes the prosecutors any different from Stalin?
What’s next? Political prisoners? May have to let go a few harmless pot smokers to make room for the dangerous crowd of people with different opinions. I don’t like where this is going.
Freedom of speech should not be considered a privilege, it’s a basic right, you’re born with it, don’t give it up. Ever.
Hi Roamer!
Good that you mention other genocides, especially the mass forced starvation of the Ukraine.
Stalin’s daughter, Svetlana Alleluyeva Stalin, in her autobiography “Only One Year”(1969) mentions a poignant anecdote about the Ukrainian famine. She was a schoolgirl at the time, and her classmates were all abuzz over it. One girl in her class was from the Ukraine and filled in the other girls about what was going on. Svetlana was disturbed to hear this and had to ask her father about it. When she confronted “daddy” over this, he reportedly told her to never talk about it again. Afterwards Svetlana’s entire class, along with their parents were arrested! As her entire class was decimated, she had to be transferred to another class elsewhere.
Another good one comes from Krushchev himself. In his autobiography “Krushchev Remembers”(1970), Krushchev recalls a telling Stalin that there is so much hunger in some places, that mothers are eating their babies! Stalin cut him of and in a very rebuking tone told him “One shouldn’t be so sentimental, Comrade Krushchev!”
There have been many genocides. Let’s also not forget that we saw genocidal behaviour in the Balkans, in the 1990′s. Last I heard “Doctor” Karadzic was on trial in the Hague for genocide. When a reporter questioned him about the children born to women in the “rape camps”, he chivalrously reported that he will personally adopt those babies! Great guy.
Oh dear the deniars are back in numbers…
All your pathetic ramblings prove is that there are more people out there that enjoy living in denial?
Don’t bother arguing the law isn’t on your side, because the laws were made for and by right-minded individuals..
To understand this you need to be one or the other.. and that is where the problems appear to be?
@Bacsi
Your sadly the minority, and trying to be the tail that wags the dog! Watch your dreams tonight if i were you, those nightmares are your higher self warning you of your disturbed EGO!
Of course…. I’m in the minority…
Thta’s right… There are hardly any people in the rest of the World that that believe the Holocaust ever happened…
Oh yes, that’s right?
Thanks for correcting me…
I feel much better now!
Bacsi,
Most people are sick and tired of you holocaust worshippers. Time to let go, don’t push it.
@Godot
You got it wrong yet again ddn’t you?
I presume what you meanto say was.. Most retards….
You Retard.
Hungary has become a political football. To be kicked in any direction by people who do not have
its best interests at heart.
The lunatic fringe, demonstrates, and denies the holocaust.
(Lock ‘em up!)
The majority of Hungarians are law-biding, decent,
citizens who want the best for themselves and their children.
They will not get it while these pages are being dominated by issues that should have been
consigned to the past.
Until the nation realizes that it has been dragged, needlessly, into the gutter by corrupt and incompetent politicians – it will always struggle.
The current paymasters who loan us large amounts of money (which, we never see, by the way), are the zealots that force every kind of political correctness on struggling, and unsuspecting, Hungarians.
Reflection @
The most intelligent comment so far ! Thank you sir.
After reading the obsessive babble by the likes of ‘Bacsi’ etc.. I was really becomining depressed for the sanity of ordinary people–thank God HE is a minority,he just doesnt realise it yet.
The issue of genocide denial has future relevance in one important sense. Around three potential candidates to EU accession, Croatia, Serbia and Turkey, swirl rather nasty accusations of past genocide. Turkey’s issue with ths dates back to 1915, re the Armenians. (The Kurds would also like to put themselves on this victim list!) For the Croats, it was the conduct of the 1941 Pavelic regime with it’s “Ustasha” militias and camps; both the Serbs and the Croats behaved abominably in the 90′s. It’s what went on in the 90′s that really bothers me, as that is still recent in historical time. The many victims who lived through it, especially as children, are scarred, orphaned and have horrible memories for the rest of their lives. What also concerns me is that absolutely real process of truth and reconcilation has taken place. (The “Hague Tribunal” is a joke!) Both Serbs and Croats are in their own denial and feel live victims. (If you don’t believe me, just try talking to some of them!)
Making a certain interpretation of history an individual crime, to me is questionable. It is entirely a different matter when past miscreants like Croatia and Serbia end up knocking on the EU door, wanting in. They both ended up creating a massive refugee problem for the rest of Europe. For them to become members of such an association, they have to demonstrate that no such horrors will occur in the future. Hard to do that, when you don’t admit your side did anything wrong.
The law against Holocaust denial had it’s origin in the postwar allied occupation of Germany and Austria. When a civilian govt was put in place after the war, it made some sense to ban some of the old symbols and ideas in those countries, as they could have become the rallying point for an active, even violent resistance against the allies and the new govts. (There was a fear that Nazi holdouts would continue to stage a violent guerilla resistance from out of an “Alpine Redoubt”) The economic resurgence of Germany, which was in shambles, was not yet an assured thing. People then had a lot of reason to be concerned for peace and stability.
Well I think modern day Germany has outgrown the need for such concern! Their democracy and economic system are strong enough to withstand a few inconvenient opinions and flags. I say that as a very high compliment to the Germans!
What is a bit unclear to me is how a security measure that made sense to the Allies in 1945, could have spread to other nations in Europe, and spreading still. Here we are, 64 years after the Allied victory in Europe and we are facing this odd legal issue in Hungary.
The realist in me says that Hungarians have a trade-off, and please don’t bite me for saying this! I wasn’t born yesterday, and here’s my spin. We have a choice of kissing off Israeli investment cash (which could be substantial!), versus throwing the Holocaust deniers among us “under the bus”. The latter will the price for the former.
You have written the absolute truth in your last
‘post’ Mr Farkas László!
I applaud your efforts on these pages to make some ‘rhyme and reason’ about what is going on in Hungary at present.
A lot of cash is about to be invested here by the Israelis. The Israelis should be more concerned though, with people starving, and losing their homes.
A very small minority who hold controversial views should be the least of anyone’s concern at the moment.
Thank you endorsee!
In my travels and conversations with many people, including Jews and ex-Hungarian Jews throughout the world, two things have become apparent. (When you listen to people, you learn a lot.)
1)The ex-Hungarian Jews love us still, love Hungary and want to come back! They still cook Hungarian food, listen to Hungarian music, love the Hungarian language and feel like exiles. It’s just that they are not sure it is safe for them to come back.
2)The non Hungarian Jews, who don’t have the deep connection to our homeland, have a vendetta agianst us. They dislike what they percieve as anti-semitism and past complicity with the crimes of the Nazi regime. They are alleging that as many as 700,000 Hungarian Jews dissapeared into the gas ovens with the complicity of the Szalasi govt. They will not be satisfied with us unless we make Holocaust denial a crime in our country. (If any of you disagree with this, PLEASE, leave me out of it! I’ll hook you up with the Jews who stand by this, and you can go fight it out with each other!)
Baby it comes down to this. Suppose someone you didn’t particularly like or trust, were to show you several suitcases full of 10,000 forint notes! He obviously has more than you do! You yourself are severely poor and in debt. What are you going to do? Will it be expedientcy or pride?
Knowing Hungarians, I say it’s 50-50. We have a lot of pride for people who don’t have much.
There is a big difference between Israeli investment here, versus “EU handouts”! The bureaucrats in Brussels are weak and spinelss. They give billions with no sense, accountabilty or expectation of financial return, which is why strong, red-blooded Hungarians distrust them! (How can any decent person like such people?) Would Hunyadi Janos have respected such folks?
When the Jews lend us billions, they will be vitally concerned about:
1) Where every penny went.
2) to whom?
3)why?
4)where’s the payoff?
5) when will we be paying it back?
6)If any of it was misallocated, diverted and mispent, let’s talk about consequences.
These are very valid questions, are they not? Suppose that Hungarians had their level of financial power; we would be asking the same questions, wouldn’t we? That is if we had an ounce of common sense. Money does not grow on trees! The Jews knew this before Arpad!!!
If Hungarians have a choice between getting assistance beween an irresponsible Brussels vs. Jews who want accountabilty, well I won’t give my personal answer. Fill in your own!
What Mr. Wolf says is (as usual) pretty spot on. But really, what is needed is for people to just get something else to obsess over rather than real or perceived racial, ethnic, national or religious grievances. This is why I am so happy whenever I see some kind of crazy hobby exhibition in Hungary, like last weekend’s Oldtimer Expo – if you are obsessed about carburetors on old classic cars (or something else like that) you are much less likely to sit around the house stewing about something that happened in 1526 or 1944, or convincing yourself that some group is out to get you, or needs a good kick. Just stay busy and focus that energy on something else, no matter how silly, and you are bound to be happier and richer – and so will everyone else. An idle mind is the devil’s playground…
Kedves Erik!
I thank you for your support! As proprietor of this website, it means a lot to me.
Discussions of the Holoaust always degenerate into ugly name calling around here.
Name calling and insults get you nowhere in the real world! That kind of thing either gets you fired, dumped, injured, killed or arrested! It degrades your website when people, under the guise of anonymity and phony usernames, feel free to say things thay wouldn’t dare to say in real life.
I never said anything on your website that I wouldn’t dare to say in front of a BBC microphone, under my own personal name, broadcast to all planet earth! (They have so honored me on a number of occaions)
It is an honor to post on your website. You at any time can change your tolerant mind and make an “executive decision”, which would be extremely unfortunate for some of the posters here. In that case, they would need to find another website!
Szerettetel,
Laci
@ Erik ..Some people choose to ignore the inner voice, to deny that voice or to make themselves so busy with the things of this world that they have no attention left over for developing themselves, there are two voices the Ego is the Devil and your intuition is your Higher self. Some people have ignored their inner voice for so long that they think they can no longer hear there intuition. So being idle is a huge process in developing yourself.
Ok, I am no expert on how much Israeli investment there is in Hungary.
However, the problem here is that the word Israeli and Jew are being used interchangebly.
This is wholely wrong and only leads to fan the flames of the idiot anti-semites out there.
If a person of a certain nationality has lent money, then that may or may not have anything to do with their religion. Making the connection is a dangerous path.
Not all Jewish people are Israeli, not all Israeli’s are Jewish. Not all Jewish people have money and not all of people belonging to the above groups are investors.
Be very very carefull about this arbitrary swapping, it is not the same. It does, however, promote a dangerous stereotype.
Madame Blavatsky,
I so like your username, although
I consider it unconventional for a website devoted to political issues.
Forget the politics and such. Tell me a little about yourself. Are you a Theosophist? Have you been to Adyar? Have you read “Isis Unveiled” and the “Secret Doctrine”? Forget about the other people here, talk to me. You and me may be able to relate differntly, and I always welcome that. Have you read about Krishnamurti and his background?
There was an active Theosophical Society in Hungary prior to Horthy. Horthy considered all such people “weirdos”. What else could you have expected from him? He was an extremely ordinary man.
I have a lot of literary, historical testimony about the Theosophical Society in Hungary. I am ready to talk about this. For those who don’t “get it”, let them google and learn.
Dear Laszlo, Its not really relevant as you say to this site but i will quickly give you my understanding.
My background is honestly nothing to do with this witch.
I agree with Horthy’s reasoning because spiritually people are aware that the Ascended Host sponsored the Theosophical Society the great white Brotherhood. Let me explain in more detail what occurred.
Theosophical society founder was Helena Blavatsky, the movement was sponsored by the ascended masters El Morya, Kuthumi and Dwal Kul. One master was curiously absent, namely Jesus. One might therefore ask why a movement that was meant to pave the way for bringing humankind closer to mastering the test of Pisces – in preparation for them entering Aquarius – was not sponsored by or had any direct involvement by Jesus, the spiritual representative of the Piscean age?
There are reasons for this mainstream Christian churches had altered to sectarian and rigid . Therefore, it was determined that a new spiritual awareness could not be brought in through Christians. Theosophy was designed to appeal to the many highly intelligent and intellectual people who had become disillusioned with official Christianity and were now on the brink of being sucked into the black hole of scientific materialism. Some of these people were still open to spirituality, but they had been so disappointed by Christianity that they were more open to Eastern philosophy, and that is one reason why Theosophy was given an Eastern bent.
cont;
Some spiritual students also claimed Helena Blavatsky was reincarnation of the soul of Peter, what they like to call the rock of Peter.
If the soul of Peter/Blavatsky could have made the changes of consciousness with Theosophy, could have helped develop our collective consciousness but that did not happen. Instead, Blavatsky became more set in her dualistic habits and fought against Christianity, even writing information about Lucifer being the real savior who was meant to save human beings.
It’s generally known that after Helena Blavatsky stopped serving as a messenger, several other members of the Theosophical society absorbed the spirit and began there own versions i.e. Charles Leadbeater, Alice Bailey and Rudolph Steiner. Alice Bailey. This movement was directed by the fallen ones and the was a contributor to the Lucis trust which is a powerful media outlet for creating movements like the Bahai’s , oneness movements that are misrepresented by these fallen beings, so my suggestion is not to follow any religion because they all are corrupted eventually by the dualistic consciousness, believe in the key within your heart listen to the inner knowing but don’t get trapped in any teaching that will box you into a downward spiral like the Theosophical movement.. Be aware but loving.. So your are right they are wacko!!
@Madame B: Well, I don’t propose stifling one’s inner voice, though I suppose if the inner voice is telling you something bad, stifling it isn’t a bad idea, either. My wife is away for three weeks, and I’m sure there is an inner voice in my head somewhere telling me to go out and chase other girls. I’d put Jew-baiting, etc., in the same category as adultry – a moral failing that is common and probably natural, but still something that it would be nice if people were busy enough with other things to avoid lapsing into.
madame blavatsky: It would be nice then, if you used another nick, because it seemed that you were promoting theosophy. I agree, they were/are more than whacky, they were/are scary. Horthy knew what he was doing.
@Laszlo
Have you been to Adyar? Have you read “Isis Unveiled” and the “Secret Doctrine”?
Teachings from this realm trap people into the emotional realm of fear and duality also can be called the Astral realm. As mentioned can be very stimulating for the intellectual however easily misinterprets the fundamental points of the true essence of what the teachings were designed for and reiterating , this is not the highest teachings.
@Tunde
Sorry to disappoint you! Honestly, I agree with you!
Just wanted to highlight to readers who are curious to raise there awareness of these realms and how they are misrepresented, one reader appeared interested.
Ignorance is not Bliss, only for the evil ones.
I will disappear into back to the lower realm. bye!
@Erik
Madame raises a valid observation that all true seekers of truth journey within themselves.
The human ego is a term that has been used differently by various psychologists and spiritual teachers, specifically to refer to an “alien” being that exists in your psyche, meaning the lower part of your being. For most people, their egos have attained a high degree of control over their lives. The spiritual path is a process of taking control away from the ego and thus attaining the freedom to be who you were created to be. So suppressing this inner voice is not making it vanish just hiding it until there comes a day for it to expose itself.
Yet the ego will not give up control voluntarily. It is therefore essential for you to understand how the ego was created. This is a somewhat complicated process but well worth discovering for every ones own benefit. It might seem trivial but even your comment on your wife absence, there is still your hidden desire lurking within you, your shadow, which never wants to expose. Just an observation I wanted to share with you, don’t take offence.
@Bob: I actually spent part of last night reading up on Mme. Blavatsky and Theosophy, neither of which I had ever heard of. Interesting! Still, I have always promised myself that if were to take a turn to the spirtual (I’m very secular) it would be to embrace the really Old Gods, i.e. Greek and Roman. No joke – their world of chaos and moral ambiguity just seems more realistic and believable.
Repent your sins, the end of the world is coming – to Hungary. (Godot, 12:41)
@ERIK
Co Creator
Just taking the initiative to begin searching is a big step, and you will be amazed at what’s available out there, interestingly the Greek Gods are in a lower realm and haven’t ascended to the highest realm, there are different stages of progress for our Ascended masters or Gods who have to progress. You have a spark within you anchored or connected to the Creator, you were created in the image and likeness of God, so just be aware of your potential,there are higher realms and if you trap yourself into a lower realm you will limit your progress, food for thought. But a fascinating journey that will only help you become more of who you really are
Erik, then you must be aware that theosophists think of Lucifer as their guide. As the madame B wrote “One master was curiously absent, namely Jesus.” So when you say you think of cheating on your wife when she is gone, instead of perhaps the more non luciferian but more Christian (or humanist secular) thought of missing her, I am not surprised you find their world of “moral ambiguity” more believable.
madame B: “Ignorance is not Bliss, only for the evil ones.” Yes exactly.
Hi Tunde
It’s a sad fact that the teachings of Madame Blavatsky and Theosophical society have a popular following that preach universal spiritualism and unfortunately very appealing to New age searchers, and intellectually stimulating, this is there marketing tool, this is a facade as you say Tunde for Lucifers Teachings.
Still worthwhile to research and learn to wise as a serpent and to know how the lower realms operate, there are still some elements that do teach Truth that’s what attracts the followers, but long term it’s not recommended.
As someone said here , the key to spiritual knowledge is within you, your Heart.
Cylons! Every fracking one of them… I knew it!
You don’t have to like what someone else have to say! They don’t like what you have to say either!
the only thing that I care about is freedom of speech!!! No laws against it! Never forget who is in power makes the laws of the land.
@Geza
That’s exactly the point!!
There ARE Laws against this and ones that thankfully are going to be upheld.
Most Laws (outside Hungary that is) are in place for well thought out ane neccesary reasons.
I know that’s not always the case.. But in ‘this’ case it is correct.
Hi “Madame”!
See what you did with your username? I never would have thought that Theosophy could provoke people more than the subject of Jews! Learn something everyday!
I’ve not been to Adyar, which is near Madras (Channai) in India. I have read her two masterworks, The Secret Doctrine and Isis Unveiled. From a technical perspective, they are very impressive works of learning and erudition, what with their numerous sources and quotes from works in many languages. (Many of which were then yet untranslated into English) Blavatsky did not have the formal learning to write such works, so one can only conclude that either she stole the manuscript from someone, or it was indeed channeled to her as she says. To steal one such manucript would be quite a stretch, but two is beyond belief. The person who would have originally written them would have screamed bloody murder. The research and compilation alone would have taken years. I’m therefore inclined to think that there was some invisible entity channeling them to her.
When you read these two works, one is blown away by the sheer mass of information. Together, they are much much longer than the Bible! (She was once nicknamed “Blah blah balvatsky”) There is no spirituality in it, just a lot of comparison of religions and traditions. She debunks Christianity and especially Catholicism, but dignifies the eastern religions, especially Buddhism and Hinduism.
(cont)
(cont)
Blavatsky made eastern thought intellectually credible in the West. Her Theosophical Society appealed to those who were either bored or frustrated with Christianity, and wanted a new flavor of ice cream. People dissatisfied with “fire and brimstone” Christian teaching, or those alienated by a purely materialistic science, where her primary customers, and for a while, they came in droves. The “Society” had a big worldwide following; in America it attracted middle class people, in Europe and in Hungary, it tended to appeal to an upper crust, like Freemasonry did. (Theosophy would have made no sense to the average Hungarian back then.)
In the early days of the movement, she and her associates were intimately linked with what then was called “Spiritualism”, which meant trying to contact spirits via seances and quiji boards. As someone interested in the paranormal, I have to say that these are very dangerous things to involve yourself with. By playing around with these things, you open a door to an invisible realm. Manifestations will start to happen that you will not be able to control. This is what I think happened to Blavatsky. (If any of you are skeptical, well you just start playing around with a quiji board, and pretty soon you will know far more than you ever wanted to know!) Blavatsky opend herself up to an astral,(not heavenly) realm. The “masters” that she was channeling were perhaps more clever than the average human, but I’m not sure they were heavenly
So you seem well drilled in a few trades here Farkas Laszlo. Not only History, politics bt also spiritualism, not many people dabble in the realms to this degree, is there any teaching that you recommend is closest to the heavenly realm? Because I have bounced around so many false teachings that I have become stagnant, they all seem to begin with a true essence then are taken over by fallen beings.
The deflation of the Theosophical movement was very sudden and quite drastic. It happened in 1927, after “Madame” had passed away. Her successor was Annie Besant, helped by a Brit named Leadbeater. Leadbeater claimed to have astral vision which enabled him to see auras, indeed he wrote a book on the subject, complete with colored plates.
Leadbeater was on the beach in India when he saw two very young Indian boys playing. His “astral vision” indicated to him that their auras were most remarkable. So remarkable that he felt compelled to adopt them, over the protests of their poor Indian father. (Being British and white counted for a great deal in India back then!) The poor father tried to fight this as best as he could, but ultimately lost. He found out that Leadbeater was teaching his sons to masturbate, and so he tried to break the adoption and custody on morals charges. The case went all the way up to highest court in Delhi, and then appealed to the final court in Great Britain. Because of Leadbeaters’ association with the Theosophical Society, the trial garnered intense publicity and attention. The affair was widely nicknamed and ridiculed as the “masturbation trials”.
Once the courts ruled in Leadbeaters’ favor, he went about convincing Annie Besant that his proteges have a very bright future as spiritual leaders to the human race. On e boy was called Jiddu Krishnamurti.
(cont)
(cont)
The society groomed both boys to be channels for “Maitreya”. When Buddaha was alive 2,500 years ago, he told his followers that he will reincarnate once more, 2,500 years hence. Ever since, Buddhists have worshipped the future incarnation of Buddha whom they named Maitreya. Leadbeater and the gullible Besant were convinced that one of these two boys was to be the incarnate vehicle. Well one brother died early, leaving just Krishnamurti. As a result, he was given a strange, unnatural and pampered upbringing, all of it a “preparation” for his future role as the next great spiritual leader to mankind. He was given a new name, “Alcyone”, and was put in charge of a subsection of the Theosophical Society called something like “The Star of The Orient”.
Besant invested a lot of time, effort and emotion in the young man, treating him as her own son. She decided that the moment for “Maitreya” to take over his body was fast approaching, and so she called a worldwide convocation of Theosophists for a mass meeting in the Netherlands, in 1927. It was believed that at the right moment, in front of thousands, Maitreya would “come back” and fill the world with very stunning teachings. She warned everybody that the new vehicle might say things of a very radical nature that might go against their established views.
Poor deluded lady, she was very prophetic oon the last point.
(cont)
(cont)
When Krishanmurti ascended to the microphone, at the magical moment, in front of many reporters and newsreelmen, he fulfilled Besants’ prediction by denouncing the whole notion of “masters”, as well as everthing Theosophy stood for! He said something to the effect that “truth is a trackless land”, and that you can’t get there via the Theosophical process or belef system.
The whole world, who was watching and listening, had a fantastic laugh over this! Cynical worldly newsmen especially had a field day with it all and made a celebrity out of Krishnamurti. Membership in the Theosophical Society dropped by almost 90% as a result of this debacle. The society never recovered from it. Besant died of a broken heart; appraently “Maitreyas’” teachings were too radical for her!
Krishnamurti spent the rest of his life as a mystic/lecturer. He denounced all belief systems including Theosophy.
Leadbeater went on to join the weird “Liberal Catholic Church” in Australia, which maintained that there was esoteric power in Catholic ritual. Their “priests” were not consecrated by the pope or the Roman church. Any man could declare himself a “Bishop” or “Archbishop”, and so Leadbeater became “Archbishop Leadbeater” and went about, along with many others in Bishops’ attire, complete with mitre and crozier. What a nutcase!
I hope you all found this amusing! I’m laughing right now as I write this! This is why I don’t read novels! Why? Truth is stranger than fiction
Dear Sharon!
You ask the most difficult question of all, because it is so existential. What “works” for one person may not work at all for another.
We are all at different stages of the growth process. Sometimes bouncing around, like you have, helps to create a “process of elimination”. You may not know what’s right, but you are starting to know what isn’t right, because you have experienced enough falseness to know. After a while, falsehood will have an unmistakeable “smell” and your intuition will naturally alert you.
I suggest you pray earnestly, with all you heart for guidance. If you do that, you will get it. One always ends up getting what they wished for, or asked for.
Love and blessings!
Laci
@Farkas Laszlo
Thanks, I appreciate you sharing such intimate knowledge, thoughts and emotions on your own path, thanks for sharing the wisdom.
Love Shazza
Mr. Farkas,
Ὁ βίος βραχύς, ἡ δὲ τέχνη μακρή
Hi Godot,
Sent me a puzzle did you? I don’t know about the squares, but the first part says “life is short”; the last part looks like “Art Makris”?
I noticed a certain social Welfare in Hungary. There is a group of people who don’t want to go to work, who claim welfare benefits, and I am wandering if it is global politics?
My opinion on the consequence of global politics, namely the philosophy of scientific materialism, which brings up an entire generation to believe that life has no purpose and meaning. And so you see, there are those who have grown up believing that there is no point in striving to improve yourself. For what is the point if you are just a highly evolved animal who will one day disappear when the physical body draws its last breath?
You can find no purpose in life unless you have a spiritual perspective. But you can find no true purpose in life unless you have a firm understanding of the reality of reincarnation, where you realize that your soul can rise to higher levels in succeeding embodiments, eventually ascending permanently to the spiritual realm.So what you see in the richest nations in the world is that as they have become more secular and more materialistic. You have a growing percentage of the population who have no sense of purpose and meaning. And thus, they take advantage of the welfare system to its fullest. And they live a life where you might say that they are nothing more than animals or vegetables.
cont:
Now the problem here is that the power elite does not want to change this condition. For their biggest strategy is to keep the entire population trapped in a materialistic mindset that allows them to manipulate the population in this age. And so they are willing to absorb the cost, so to speak, of having a certain percentage of the people live off the welfare system.
Because they know full well that it is a problem they have created through their secularism and materialism. But they also believe that their philosophy is correct. Or, at least, they are willing to use that philosophy as they will use any philosophy to suppress the entire population. And so, for them the welfare system is simply the cost of doing business of keeping the entire society locked in materialism.
@Laszlo
Godot is a puzzle himself……
With quite a few pieces misssing!!
Erik. You promote fiddling about with motor car parts. Some promote fiddling about with fiddles. Others just seek to find the truth in outlandish
beliefs aand/or religions.
I take your point about contributors becoming too serious and over-anxious about things that happened a long, long, time ago.
I applaud you Erik, for providing a “platform” for all of us to have the, “freedom of speech” to express our individual opinions on this site.
Have a drink, or two, on me! I will send you the cash shortly after they lower the 25% VAT rate.
Hello Mr Aba,
An interesting take. The dilemma you describe also accounts for drug use and the ongoing popularity and rise of religious cults. (Theosophy was popular in it’s day in response to to an inner emptiness.) There always will be those in this world who will claim to have some special revelation, and they will always have followers.
Interesting you mention reincarnation. I have personally done about 15 past life regression hypnotherapy sessions. The results blew me away and were a totally life altering experience. It also made me understand a lot about myself.
Sorry, folks. There’s no such thing as “reincarnation”, and “soul” is nothing but a simple (or complex) brain malfunction.
That’s why no one should sacrifice the one chance they got at life for the illusion of second chances. There aren’t any. It’s now or never. Screw religions, you don’t need them to be a decent human being, in fact it’s best if you stay away from religious wackos.
Stan’s right! Let There Be More Light.
@Axeman Eugene
Let Stan spread the Light…
In his ‘Special’ way…
@Bacsi – Hungary is like The Dark Side Of The Moon. People see only depression, paranoia, and hear weird voices.
Once in a blue moon, Stan, “in his own way” finds the light switch.
@Axeman Eugene
Given the standard of Education in Hungary Today (2009)
It’s clear to see why and how almost a whole generation could grow up to adulthood, with a completly ‘False’ set of Historical beliefs.
Hungary has been subject to at least 100 years of dis-information and that there still persists such ignorance amongst certain sections of society is understandable.. but NOT acceptable.
Hungary is by its own choice ‘lagging’ far behind what should reasonably be expected in 2009, with regard to many very important and relavent matters.
The Historical facts are readily available to those that can ‘cope’ with the facts..
before the War 600,000 Jews lived in Hungary.. Afterwards less than 200,000 remained……
But I’m pretty certain some helpful soul will pop up shortly to either dispute the figures or point out that these people all just vanished or took a vacation somewhere sunny?
I can’t wait..
By the way is it possible to post pictures on this forum or just text?
Because perhaps we can employ some photographic evidence that might prove difficult to argue about for some of the less intelligent amongst us!!
Hey Erik,
Bacsi asks about being able to post pictures here, how about it? Is it possible? I often thought the same myself, especailly when
I was talking about Hungarians in Hollywood and old films. I could have livened the presentation up a bit with pictures from my collection.
I know on some websites, you have to put the pictures first on an image hosting website, like Photobucket. That way you get a URL address that can be copied and embedded into the destination website. Sort of like a two step process. It would be better to do it directly, if at all possible.
Let us know!
In case any of you kids get hungry from all this political and religious discussion, here’s a pleasant distraction: VALÓDI MAGYAR SZAKÁCSKÖNYV
IRTA: ZILAHY ÁGNES (1892) available online at
http://mek.niif.hu/00100/00135/html/
Yum-yum! makes me want to eat!
Hi Mr Laszlo Farkas, This is a deep sharing of your personal development which helps explain the steps of reincarnation and your past life regression hypnotherapy sessions 15 I must add is an amazing example how deep you must have delved within yourself to try and resolve your past to be more in this universe.
Some people have combined the fatalistic Eastern teachings about karma with the idea of sacrifice or suffering as a payment for sin. Thus, they reason that if something bad happens to them, the reason must be bad karma made in a past life. And if they only endure the suffering, they will pay back their karma and will eventually be free. This is a dangerous fallacy that has caused many sincere spiritual seekers to prolong their suffering needlessly.
Everything in this universe has one purpose and one purpose only, namely to help you grow. Creator has no desire to punish you for your past mistakes, and thus it is extremely important to realize the truth that karma is not a form of punishment. Karma is an opportunity to grow, and it should always be approached as such. When you think about it, why would unconditional Love want you to suffer and how could suffering compensate for the mistakes of the past? Universe of the highest realm only wants you to leave behind those mistakes, so that you are free to come home to his level.
You made karma by making imperfect decisions, and those decisions were the result of a limited state of consciousness.
Cont:
The decisions generated a certain amount of misqualified energy, and in order to restore balance to the universe the energy must be requalified to its original purity. Before you can permanently ascend to the spiritual realm, you must requalify all misqualified energy you have generated in all of your lifetimes. You must also resolve all dualistic beliefs in your psychology, the beliefs that cause you to misqualify energy. Until that happens, your karma which incorporates both misqualified energy and unresolved psychology will act as a rubber band that pulls your soul back to earth.
So thanks for sharing your experience, is there any amazing teachings you would like to share, or practitioners that have helped?
Hello Samuel,
The past life regression hypnotherapy sessions I have had were the most remarkable experiences of my life, bar none. Nothing else I know of can duplicate their effect. (Indeed their effects can overwhelm you for months after the session is over.) There will be sceptics, but until they actually try such a thing, they don’t know. This phenomenon has been studied by clinical psychologists, has a lot of literature behind it, and some of the details evoked in such sessions has been independently verified through historical research.
Here are some insights from the process for me:
1)The realization that I am indestructible and will go on, no matter what happens to my physical body. This alone would help me to face death with courage, anytime. Instead of a final end, what you really have is an endless mutation and transferrence from one state to another. (Indeed in one of my sessions, the hypnotherapist had me recall my “death moment” from a past life! That alone was worth the price of admission.)
2)You can never lose your loved ones, because we keep coming back with the same group of intimates. Our relation with them may change over time, but our nearest and dearest remain with us, and we couldn’t lose them if we wanted to. This realzation is a great comfort in the event that a loved one dies, because I realize such a parting is but temporary.
(cont)
(cont)
3)When you have past recall, you realize it’s not what you owned or your former status that matters, but how you treated people in the past. It all wil catch up with you. Your present is the function of your past actions; your future fate will be the function of what kind of person you are today. To be anything but considerate to others is a big mistake, and sooner or later we will all learn this.
4)You can’t take money and houses with you into the next world, but you can take your God-given creative talents, which can amplify in lifetime to lifetime. God loves it when we are creative in some way; when we hone our creative talents, we aqcuire something permanent unto ourselves that not even physical death can rob from us. I have a number of gifts which I manifested from a very early age. I remember well, at the age of 4 or 5, going up to a piano for the first time, and with one finger, tapping out two distinct songs, much to the utter astonishment of the adults present! How was I able to do this? I found out in my sessions, that I was quite an accomplished piano player in a past lives. Just thinking of this almost brings tears to my eyes, it’s so emotional. You can’t lose it! Such a manifestation accounts for other early child prodigies like Mozart. How was he able to do it from the age of 3?
(cont)
(cont)
5)You retain an associational fondness (or aversion!)for some of the countries and cultures that you once lived in. My sessions explained my fascination, since childhood, for ancient Egypt, India, Germany, Atlantis and China. Throughout my life, I have dabbled in the study of Egyptian hieroglyphs, Sanskrit, German and even Chinese. I had very fond experiences in those cultures, and will love them always. People who take up the study of history or archeology are themselves driven by this syndrome.
Past life association also explains why you may visit a place, and feel like you were once there. Many have felt this during the course of their travels, as have I, especially throughout the Orient. When I was in Hong Kong, I felt like I had “come home” after a long absence. I almost wept for joy and felt like I knew what was around every corner, although I had not been there in this life. And that was by no means the only place in this world where I felt like that.
The unique state that hypnotherapy puts you in, is highly fluid, and can be used to observe not just the past, but things happening now, remotely. During the cold war, both the Soviet and American intelligence agencies invested a lot of time and research into “remote viewing”, for the purposes of spying on one another in a non-physically traceable way. This is well documented and you can google the subject. The CIA’s work in this field was extensive.
(cont)
(cont)
I have suggested to one Hungarian hynotherapist that we use this tool to delve into the hidden pages of our history. We lack a lot of documetation about our early leaders and kings, such as Stephen or Arpad, and have none at all about our origins and period of migration. From where did we really come? When? What can we learn about the beliefs and traditions of our ancient ancestors? Although historical insights gained through this process can’t meet the rigid standards of proof in academic history, I still think it would be a valuable excercise, especially if conducted through a group of subjects.
Some people will have theological objections to the implications of this. The three monotheistic religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam, don’t excite me, and they all deny reincarnation. Some of the early “Church Fathers”, like Clement of Alexandria did attest that Jesus and his early followers did believe in reincarnation. (He was later forced to recant this position) Again, I don’t care what any of these three religions think. I don’t like either of them; never have, never will.
Well Samuel, as far as finding a practioner, shop around, talk to them and go with your gut instinct. Make sure whoever you work with has been certified and trained in such work. The memories evoked will not always be pleasant (although mine were!), and the person working with you will have to be prepared. It is a form of psychaitry.
Wow! What a remarkable experience you have shared and true how you mention that if we really new how our behavior toward one another affects the outcome, people would stop all hatred and pain towards one another. Yes some of the early Christians had some versions of reincarnation in their teachings, and later many changes over time by certain elite to withhold the truth were made.
The basic law of this universe is free will. However, in order to give people the truth, people must ask. Ask and ye shall receive is a divine law. If you do not ask, you cannot receive from us because the Law of Free Will does not permit us to give you an answer for which you have not asked. In fact, until you ask, you would not be open to the answer of able to fathom that answer.
The School of Earth seeks to accomplish its goal by putting people in situations where they are given the best possible opportunity to abandon fear and embrace love. If a soul will fully recognize this, it might begin to consider the following. If I am a Jew in this lifetime and hate the Arabs, it is likely that in my last lifetime I was an Arab hating the Jews. So perhaps the real problem is not the Arabs or the Jews.
Cont:
Perhaps the real problem is the hatred which imprisons the soul and prevents the soul from moving forward on the spiritual journey towards my home? So do we really want to spend the rest of this lifetime fighting the outer enemy, or will we instead fight the enemy within, conquer our hatred and embrace the path of love?
hello again Samuel,
You bring up some very good points. When you talk about asking and receiving, earlier in the thread I mentioned this principle to our posting sister “Sharon”, when she asked me for advice about finding the way. I told her to pray and ask for guidance, as there is some law in the universe that rules along such lines.
When you mention the “School of Earth”, you are making an old, but very profound metaphor. That’s exactly what this world is, a schoolroom where “pupils” are administered “lessons”. My reincarnational recall has totally reinforced this idea in me.
A couple of my sessions brought recall about the ancient, lost continent of Atlantis, which has utterly fascinated me since I was a boy. Yes, I believe there was such a place, and no, it was not in the Agean Sea as scholars now want to rationalise, and yes, it was in the Atlantic Ocean. When I was alive then, the world was a very different, you might say radically different place than anything people could imagine now. Atlantis had a 100,000 year history. The idea of earth as a schoolroom for experience was driven home for me. Sometimes the “schoolroom” is “cleared” of “advanced students”, and pupils of a lesser order of development are brought in! In the early days of Atlantis, you had people of a different level of spiritual development in the world than what you now find. As a result, that enabled things both practically and technologically, that are unimaginable now.
(cont)
Farkas László:
“(cont)”
Don’t.
(cont)
The ancient traditions of our human race all talk about a “Golden Age”, a “Silver Age”, a “Bronze Age” and then an “Iron Age” (The one we are now in. This idea was presented in a highly garbled form, in the Book of Daniel.) We have devolved with time, but the same ancient traditions also say that the cycle repeats itself, over long stretches of time.
Again, the idea of earth as schoolroom was strongly impressed upon me as a result of my past recall. What was going on in Atlantis, 100,000 years ago, can’t be duplicated today, nor will it be within our lifetimes. It’s simply due to the fact there is a different class of people embodied into the world today, than then. Over time, the advanced people left the earth, and a less evolved class of souls came in leading to a practical and moral devolution.
When you mention overcoming hatred, good idea. Giving in to it will ruin you in more ways than one. To be honset with you, I am very concerned about our southern neighbors the Serbs. One Serb once confessed to me, that for his people, hatred is like a drug, utterly intoxicating! Hatred and violence allows tham to forget their hurts and sense of inferiority. Based on how both the Serbs and Croats have behaved in the past, their hate filled, violent genocidal excesses have opened them up to continuing influence by very dark, demonic forces. These are not going to be happy nations anytime soon.
Blessings,
Laci
Thanks Godot,
Hint taken. “Ὁ βίος βραχύς, ἡ δὲ τέχνη μακρή”
Dear Farka Laszlo!
There is a story told through Phylos the Tibetan in the book A Dweller on Two Planets. A must read for all sincere students of the Light to understand our history, our initiations, and the real enemy that is within, our egos, that we all must face and challenge one day.
here is a link
http://www.sacred-texts.com/atl/dtp/index.htm
Hey Samuel and others.
I have to respect the feelings and sensibilities of others in this community. If you want to go on about metaphysical topics with me, write to Erik, and I will give him permission for you to go “offline” with me, and he can give you my email.
Thanks to our perverted, twisted history, introduced by King Stephen, we Hungarians equate all “spiritual talk and ministry” with exploitation, greed and charlatanry.
People who claimed to represent God throughout our 1000 year long tragic history, just wanted millions of hectares of land, along with the serf/slaves to work it for them. Can you blame Hungarians for being cynical? For us, there might as well be no God or afterlife!
Only Hungarians who are experienced and socailialized outside of our constrictive realities can dream of other spiritual possibilities. My love and heart goes out to our poor race.
One of the greatest and most insightful works of Hungarian literature was written by Arany János, in “Toldi”. There in Hetedik Ėnek, “27”:
“Klastrom emelkedik, fényes templom épűl
Ne kimélyék, úgymond, telik az övébűl
Jut is abból minden papnak és barátnak:
Az isten szolgái szűk időt nem látnak”
“Up goes the cloister, a shiny church is built,
Don’t worry, just say that from out of that comes
plenty for every priest and monk;
The servants of God don’t know hard times.”
This is what passed for “spirituality” among us. We are a ruined race.
Denial of the Holocaust as far as I am concerned should be a personal choice, I for one do not see that in the face of insurmountable evidence that it did not take place, but then again not everybody is me, if you are a person that thinks the opposite, then I do not see the issue. What ever happened to the notion of free thinking and free speech?
The problem I have is that over the last 100 years, millions more people were killed by Stalin, Lenin and others, but:
1. We do not tend to want to remember them or hunt down the perpetrators!
2. There do not seem to be a anti denial laws designed for those historical atrocities!
So why do we make an exception with the holocaust!
Seems to me that some peoples deaths are not held in such reverence as others?
Should not this be made a law instead?
@ John Simpson
@The problem I have is that over the last 100 years, millions more people were killed by Stalin, Lenin and others, but:
1. We do not tend to want to remember them or hunt down the perpetrators!
Ususally the desire to ‘Hunt down the perpetrators’ starts in the Country of origin (ie Russia)..
The fact that Russia had (and still does) have such a low value on Human life, means that many do not even see the mass murder done by Stalin and Lenin as ‘crimes’ at all…
If nobody in Russia is going the ‘press’ the case and the systems that they have in place make the proccess impossible to do so, there is little that those ‘outside’ can do?
Russia and America are similar in so much as they both think they are above the International laws followed by others.
America sees itself as the saviour of the World??
and rides rough shod over laws that it doesn’t like..
And Russia has never had any laws that protected its population from summary execution and has always seen its people as totally ‘expendable’.
A lot of specialists argue that mortgage loans aid a lot of people to live the way they want, just because they are able to feel free to buy necessary stuff. Moreover, various banks offer credit loan for different persons.
@..Denial of the Holocaust as far as I am concerned
should be a personal choice…Should not this be
made a law instead?
I agree, it is called ‘freedom of belief’ and its
not state business to enforce such thing but, as you
said, state shoud do the opossite : protect this
freedom.
Some people believe that Earth is flat, that the
Holocaust didn’t happen, or they believe in ghosts
and gods and talk and pray to them.
It is ‘crazy’ and funny but they should left alone
with their weird beliefs.
Basci,
The United States elected the first black President in the developed world and avoided the excesses that afflicted Europe during the 20th century without censoring free speech.
Free speech is not to protect the ‘mainstream’, it is precisely to protect the those who espouse unpopular views.
Europe is not going to prevent Holocaust by denying Nazis the right to express their views.
EU law is wrong this respect and international law is also be wrong to the extent that it places limites on free speech.
Im a little tired of people treating the law as a Sacred Cow. We Americans have a venerable tradition of non-violet protest. The blacks achieved their civil rights by protesting against laws and in some cases breaking them (Jim Crow laws).
No one will prevent the rise of extremism by denying the right to believe as one wishes and right to express those beliefs.
@ Jassi
Please post a link to the legislation that bans “personal belief” so I can read it as I want to know the beliefs I hold that’s against the law.
As far as Holocaust Denial and the law is concerned, here is a wiki link that explains each country’s legal reasons so rather than discuss this issue a 100 times more frequently than worrying about the victims of the red sludge, read and enjoy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial
About the “Holocaust Business” – as far as I know but I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, only Germany has paid compensation and Hungary didn’t ,therefore I am not sure why it’s such a big concern in Hungary.
I have not followed the class action suits any more than the class action suits against the US tobacco companies, but I believe anyone can be part of a class action suit and its up to the victims to prove their case. I could have joined the suit for the Nazis murdering my relatives but that would have been a lie, no proof could have been presented so the case would have been thrown out. Ditto for suing the tobacco companies for my “lung cancer”
From my perspective the “Holocaust Business” fades by comparison to the “Denial business” and
I cannot figure out why, especially the unhealthy obsession by Hungarians who have so many present day seemingly insurmountable problems . Rome, Nero and fiddles come to mind.
cont…
Jassi, cont..
I believe there is one class action suit before a Chicago Court that seems to have little merit but it’s up to the Court to make a decision and not the public
Regardless of the outcome of the Chicago class action suit, just how exactly will the Court’s decision impact on Hungary or Hungarians? It won’t
Therefore, my suspicious nature tells me that the “Holocaust Denial Business” has nothing on earth to do with “payments” and used as a convenient tool for anti-Semitism
It would be interesting to see how the “Denial Buiness” is paying off because from what I heard during the Zundel trial it was fairly lucrative.
@ Jassi
May apolologies – the apology is limited to the Chicago law suit only – it’s the Hungarian Railway being sued. Very sloppy on my part.
First of all good luck getting a conviction and then good luck collecting the award. As if the Hungarian railway people had a choice.
Anyway, I copied and pasted a Comment I found after the article and it was posted by someone named Peter. Worth reading:
” I am a Hungarian Jew living in Hungary. I lost three quarters of my family in the Holocaust, my own life and my mother’s was saved by an heroic Gentile woman. 55 years have passed since those horrors. Hungary itself was plundered by Nazi Germany and the USSR. The State Railways and the banks of Hungary have changed hands several times since. Who will this lawsuit benefit? It will hurt the present generation of Hungarians, it will contribute to the rising tide of anti-Semitism all over Europe and it will hurt, most of all, the remaining Jews of Hungary. Who do the plaintiffs want to deprive of this horrendous sum, who do they want to give that money to? It won’t bring our dead back but it might lead to more killing.”
Olga
@as if the Hungarian railway people had a choice.
Right, and why Hungary when the Romanian Army is
directly (under their own orders/command, they
were allies not pccupied) of the murderr of
between 250 000 and 350 000 Jews in Bassarbia,
Transistria, Crimea, and South-Ukraine, AND in the
Romanian-German camp of Bogdanovka. The Odessa
massacre is the best known but that was drop in
the ocean compared with all their ‘aktions’.
Romania is second only to Germany to the number of
Jews killed in Soviet Union(and of the number of
Iron Cross awarded on the Eastern front, they were
enthusiastic about the war on Russia.. until they
switched sides altogether).
But nobody sues them, perhpas because they have no
money to pay anyway.
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