The Hungarian Roma community is still forced to suffer discrimination in every area of life, and gays too must contend with the intolerance of violent groups, according to a report by Amnesty International published on Thursday.
The world’s largest human rights group also mentioned in its 2009 report on Hungary the Hungarian Guard — a radical nationalist paramilitary movement — which is “primarily an anti-Roma, radical far-right organisation”. AI reported that a court had banned the group but that its leadership had announced that it would mount an appeal in a higher court.
AI’s report also notes that last summer the Constitutional Court — on grounds of restriction of free speech — annulled the modification to the civil and criminal code which parliament had “by now for the fourth time attempted” to adjust in the law on hate speech.
The organisation said the Roma continued to suffer discrimination in the areas of public education, the health-care system, housing and employment.
AI cites an NGO report which states that measures aiming to halt Roma segregation in education were not working, and that there were still 170 towns and villages in which segregation in schools was taking place in practice.
Amnesty notes that the police had set up a special 50-member investigation taskforce to examine violent acts against Roma such as attacks in which petrol bombs, hand-grenades and other weapons had been used.
The report also mentions that at last year’s gay-pride parade “several hundred violent far-right demonstrators had thrown explosive devices while shouting threats”. It notes that at first the police had banned the parade on security grounds but then only allowed it to take place under international and domestic pressure.
Idiots.
AI should do something good for a change: rescue as many gays and gypsies as they can. Take them home and see how they will get along. It would be a good way to learn a thing or two about these “oppressed minorities”.
You are full wrong, Godot. Roma and Homosexuals deserve a right to live without you terrorizing them.
They can live no problem with that just as long as they are policed, and abide by the laws instead of manipulating the law to carry out perverse and criminal acts. Gays are lacking in there psyche while gypsies are born into poverty and use this as an excuse to steal and kill, we are all responsible for our actions.
Anyone can debate back-forth about why the gypsies living in such conditions. Of course, the brainless zombies trying to compare the situation with other people of color living among other nations, such as black in USA or similar. The difference is, gypsies live in the entire Europe for the past 600-800 years now and couldn’t assimilate, couldn’t keep up and it has NOTHING to do with racism, and everything to do with a chosen lifestyle. They were not slaves, they were not brought there by ships(came on their own)they were not segregated whatsoever. They segregated themselves and continue to favor to live in large communities. Many, chose to assimilate and live by the rules and respect of the nation, never had a problem with them. Others continuing to live as they lived for hundreds of years a semi-nomadic lifestyle between nations and countries, of course they are gonna be the first ones to be effected by the global crisis. They were in poverty (by today’s standards) to begin with..now crime spiking up everywhere since if the middle and upper man suffers from the economic fallout, imagine what it does to the poorest. Again, it’s nothing to with racism. Racism is a result of a situation, not a beginning. Of course I can talk and talk forever about this, the brainwashed masses are incapable to understand this, I could have said nothing whatsoever, it would have the same effect.
Oh, and thanks “Amnesty International” for such a biased article. They were dead silent and turned away when the police was beating the crap out of the people during the 50th anniversary of ’56.
You have long lost your creditworthiness, please go and cry a river somewhere else.
Well said Hun!
I agree with Hun and Kiskun 100%. One more note that I want to add:
What about the human rights of the victims of gypsy violence?
Examples:
1. A schoolteacher was lynched to death in front of his kids by a mob of gypsies almost 3 years ago. The court is still trying to find and sentence the guilty parties….
2. An internationally recognized Romanian sportsman was stabbed to death and two others were seriously wounded by a gypsy mob of criminals in a bar where the handball players peacefully celebrated one of their team-mates’ birthday. The killer(s)’ identities are still not clear. Even though there was a huge mob there who saw the event clearly, but the accused person denies everything and the rest of the gang ‘interestingly’ knows nothing.
3. A 14 year old schoolgirl was brutally raped and murdered after returning home from a school event in a small town over a half year ago. The police is still ‘looking for’ the killers while everyone in the village knows who the killers were.
I can cite countless examples of gypsy violence that is totally ignored by this medium or any other English speaking media. It is getting to the point where Hungarians are so outraged by the lies and smears by their own English speaking media, that some of them are ready to destroy the headquarters of some of these media outlets. Now this should not be the solution, but unbiased reporting must be demanded from journalists.
I used to have deep respect for Amnesty International, but not any more.
Well Hun perhaps you should be less quick to critize Amnesty International and accuse them of biase, just because you don’t agree with one comment. From their 2007 report on Hungary…..
“Police officers reportedly used excessive force on peaceful demonstrations that later turned violent in the capital, Budapest, during the night of 20 to 21 September and again on 23 October. Rubber bullets, water cannon and tear gas were said to have been used indiscriminately and without warning against both peaceful and violent protesters. Police officers were reportedly masked and not wearing badges of identification, such as identity numbers. There were also allegations that police beat protesters taken into custody, held under-18s together with adult detainees, and fabricated some of the charges. Some detainees were denied immediate access to a lawyer, including during questioning”.
Full report http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/hungary/report-2007
Because it is propaganda, Roamerw1972.
The Gypsies don’t even know that they are used for political purposes. Name one thing Gyurcsany or his predecessor ever done for the Roma people, beside using them as a scapegoat to strengthen their political power. They have been used as the royal flush in the political poker game. I’ve seen it with my own eyes (I visit Hungary every year)how MSZP was handing out large stacks of money in Roma villages and towns to vote for them. There probably still videos about this and themselves the gypsies were telling how cars would show up and give money as long as they vote MSZP in the elections. Now the coalition (MSZP/SZDSZ) has lost all credibility and ran terrible politics ever since they took power and now they are viciously fighthing to get votes and to smear the other parties with everything. In USA, they called this “throwing the kitchensink” , because they got nothing else to throw anymore.
The Amnesty International gets their report by just looking but not understanding the situation whatsoever and biased government controlled sources giving them half-truths and leave out crucial details from their report. I have met many roma-origin people and never have looked down on them, even here in USA, there are plenty gypsy-background Hungarians and they are hard working people and also disgusted by the political games using the roma as a political tool and even weapon.
It is self-evident that a lot of groups including Amnesty International want to jump on the bandwagon an slate Hungary for discriminating against gypsies and gays. There are a whole raft of issues associated with the assimilation of the Roma community into mainstream society.
Successive governments have failed to solve the widespread social and economic problems of these so-called “outcasts”.
I know there are individuals from Roma families that have succeeded in gaining long-term employment and have earned the respect of many.
But there are literally tens of thousands of Roma families that exist on the “fringe” of society, abide by there own rules, and generally ignore the police etc. A lot of people get hot under the collar about these issues and start shouting “racist” at anyone who even dares address these issues. When all said and done it is up to the government to sort the mess out.
Unfortunately, politicians are of such a low standard here in Hungary, it is just one more sad tale in the ever-growing list of unsolved equations.
Roamerw1972,
“1. A schoolteacher was lynched to death in front of his kids by a mob of gypsies almost 3 years ago”.
He was not a “schoolteacher”, he was a driver that hit a small girl with his car. Would some one do that with my daughter, I do not think he would live to tell either.
Is his hitting the little girl with his car more excusable because he was a “schoolteacher”?
We are not using double standards here?
Gypsy family should have been responsible for not allowing there kids ran mayhem on the streets. How barbaric is lynching someone. Viking your wrong here. The mob are a bunch of PYCHO’s should be locked up or shot dogs are put out of there misery so should this mob of gypsies.
In Olaszliszka, village in the North
Eastern part of Hungary, a primary school teacher was lynched by a group of Roma after the
man’s CAR MIRROR hit a young girl. The mob thought the man had run over the girl and beat the
man to death in front of his two children.
OK, so what’s the solution here?
what is the solution here?
Viking@ The girl ran out in front of a moving car,the guy could not totally stop and hit her but she was uninjured thankfully,he got out as any normal person would to check she was okay and was immediately attacked by a bunch of thugs who would have been more useful if they had supervised the child instead of standing outside the pub.
I am stating that I am not sure if I would be so polite and forgiving as any of you ‘Tiszta Magyar’ claim you would have been.
In certain situations, like this, regardless the actual outcome of the accident, their is a rage against the driver.
To trying to describe this as a typical Roma problem is an outrage lie, it could happen in my very bourgeois street also, but we will probably let the dogs chew the driver in small parts.
I do not claim that the lynching was correct or even wanted, I just claim that I am not sure if I would not have beaten the shit out of the “schoolteacher” in the same situation.
As a driver you are always responsible to be able to stop, even for sudden occurring hinders. This is something you cannot do ‘the Hungarian way’ and blame someone else. The law should apply equal on all drivers, regardless if they are “schoolteacher” or not. None of us knows if he had a chance to avoid the collision or not, if he was a bad driver *at that specific time*. His occupation and that he was a good father is not interesting for the actual case. Hitler was nice to dogs, but that has no bearing on other side of his activities.
For me this was a terrible example of ‘road rage’. Given the facts that Hungarian drivers seldom respect the 50 kmph limit, it is not abnormal that any incident can become ugly, regardless the area it happens in.
People participating in any lynching, including myself, should be charged, but it is very hard to prove who did what.
First of all i think it is basic element of civilized society that we don’t take the law in our own hands, lynching people belongs to deep south in US, not in europe. Starting to beat people death puts those people themselves out of the boundaries of civilized society. Stabbing someone death who has defended a barmaid is not any better. What did escape me was how many members of the government participated the funerals of these people?
However, the problem of roma is not unique to Hungary, it is relevant all of central eastern europe, spain, portugal, italy and finland among other countries. One lesson from there is that the solution cannot simply be solved by giving more and more money. To me the usual attitude of seeing roma people as victims is patronizing at its best. My feeling is that their life style is very difficult to combine with typical “european” lifestyle. Which one is better is question of point of view and reasonably irrelevant anyway.
However, one thing is for sure, as long as they are victimized by others or themselves nothing will change. End of the day the only sustainable change is coming from the people themselves – on both side of the fence. Having different rules for “us” and “them” will only lead to marginalization of roma and increasingly hostile attitude from general public. If anything that will not serve the purpose of improving the attitudes towards roma.
“Won’t you be my neighbor”
http://tinyurl.com/ljctgj
Gypsies time is coming…murdering innocent Hungarians will not go unpunished…..
Gandi,
Murdering innocent Roma obviously is going unpunished…
Roamerw1972,
“The police is still ‘looking for’ the killers while everyone in the village knows who the killers were.”
Are you calling for a lynching of them, like nice Mr. Gandi?
Viking in an idiot!
Roamerw1972,
“3. A 14 year old schoolgirl was brutally raped and murdered after returning home from a school event in a small town over a half year ago. The police is still ‘looking for’ the killers while everyone in the village knows who the killers were
Roamerw1972 at May 28, 2009 8:15 PM”
—
So how does it feel today, when this was just racial BS?
Well, I am a realist, a white supremacist like you will not lose sleep after lynching the ‘wrong guy’.
The story now stands:
The 7 months a search for the murderer of a fourteen-year-old girl in Kiskunlacháza has finally made a break-through, even if the mayor of the town was sure that the murderer had to be a Gypsy (So why look?).
Of course the coward Magyar Garda was out in force to scear the local Roma.
A couple of days ago the real murderer was apprehended and he confessed.
He is not a Gypsy but a red-haired young man who lived about 200 meters from the scene of the crime.
But, ricsi, fabian, sophie and you other ‘reality deniers’, maybe he is a red haired ‘jew’?
Guys,
Don’t hold it against him!
He’s Swedish for Christ’s sake!
This peculiar piece of humanity deserves our sympathies and condolences before gypsies overrun their country. Which should be occurring momentarily. But long and behold they keep them out and in contempt not accepting any of them into their paradise. Hypocrasy? On the double! They’ve been the biggest crooks all along the last and current centuries. Crying faces and manipulative, cunning negotiators. Th jews of the Great White North.
‘reality deniers’
This Viking character must be watching reality shows on the telly all the time. He knows so much about it.
Viking: “I do not claim that the lynching was correct or even wanted, I just claim that I am not sure if I would not have beaten the shit out of the “schoolteacher” in the same situation.
As a driver you are always responsible to be able to stop, even for sudden occurring hinders. This is something you cannot do ‘the Hungarian way’ and blame someone else.”
I know this is not a recent post, but it was renewed re: Kiskunlacháza, but are you a total idiot or what? Where do you get this?
1. It is common for gypsy children to run out in the road in the countryside. They have always done it, I have had it happen to me, it is just that up to now their families didn’t lynch the driver.
2. Szögi did stop. How on earth do you think they killed him, by running after his car and holding it down? And did you know they were chanting “kill the Hungarian” at the time? And threatening to rape his girls in the car? (Trial record, they didn’t deny it either. They wouldn’t think to.)
3. Since Olaszliszka, several similar cases have occurred, in one, the police arrived in time to prevent a man being brutally beaten.
To defend the gypsies in this case is really sick, and reminds me of that OJSimpson case in the US. The similarity is not surprising.
Why don’t you take a drive up in BAZ megye sometime and God help you if a gypsy child runs out in front of your car and her family is like the one who killed Szögi.
Viking: I forgot to add that the girl was BRUSHED by the car, she fell down, and then ran to her grandmothers. They apparently didn’t check to see if she was okay, (wouldn’t that be the first thing to do), call the police or the doctor, but a went straight after Szögi.
Tünde,
So, no comment on Kiskunlacháza, that was one of the main proofs for this anti-Roma crime-wave and now it shows up, it was not a Roma, just a local red-haired lunatic. If if the local Mayor was convinced it was local Roma. People even knew their name.
These ‘jump to conclusion’ and ‘verifying your own racist opinion’ is so typical when you get vigilante forces as Magyar Garda in.
This poor girl was just a brick in your cynical political game.
I stand for what I wrote about road-rage, because that is what I wrote about.
Viking: Varangy was right, you are the village idiot, and that is an insult to all village idiots.
1. You don’t know what road rage is. It is when a DRIVER becomes enraged, normally in a traffic jam or speeding on a highway, it involves two or more cars, not a lone car driving at the speed limit through a resident area and then the driver is murdered by local on foot. I will have to tell all the police and ambulance drivers I meet that the gypsies attacking their car (happened just yesterday, at Drávakeresztúr is “road rage”.
2.You have no comment on any of your distortions of what happened?
3. No I had no comment on Kiskunlacháza. There has not been a trial, and unlike Olaszliszka, there was not a crowd of witnesses. 8 people convicted directed of the murder at Olaszliszka, although many more were involved watching and supporting them.
If a Hungarian is convicted by DNA evidence, then yes the mayor was wrong to do what he did, he should apologise, and the guilty man should be hanged, (too bad that will not happen) but what on earth does that have to do with your pathetic, ignorant and sick attempt to excuse the beasts at Olaszliszka?
Viking is a fucken lunatic! even the name Viking should be changed to big girls blouse. Have you suckled this morning yet Vik? you big baby!
B+ that kind of post, is just as useless as the kind of thing JD and Cestmoi write.
@Tünde: “…it involves two or more cars, not a lone car driving at the speed limit…” Only partially true. Road rage is not simply violence (real or psychological) perpetrated against just other drivers, but a class of behaviours, an umbrella term. If you weren’t so ready to talk from your arse you might begin by educating yourself first: “…road rage is just a new label for criminal,
aggressive or anti‐social behaviour on the roads” (Asbridge, Smart and Mann, 2006, p.109)” (see, http://cranepsych.com/Psych/Roadrage.pdf for more).
And funny you have no comment on the Kiskunlacháza case. The Mayor had previously made the very same comments about Roma as you have on Pestiside and elsewhere. He said (amongst other things): “Ilyen barbárságra csak cigányok képesek” (‘Only Gypsies are capable of such barbarity’). He was wrong and so, it appears were you (yet again). But yes let’s wait for the trial. He was like a lot of rapists a trophy taker, increasing in violence with each attack. Five pieces of forensic evidence place him at the scene and his belongings included the trophies (pieces of clothing) from his previous victims. A real piece of work, wouldn’t you say?
So what do you think on the genetics Forensic Fairy? Nature or nurture?
What is it with the Lachaza business? Why is it so important to jump on it now as the ultimate proof of the idiotic denial of the very real gypsy crime phenomenon? A typical gypsy crime committed this time by a lowlife redhead. Is it possible that this guy went to an “integrated” school, and killing and raping was only learned behavior? If we allow gypsies to set moral standards in this country, we might as well sell it to more tolerant folks, like jews.
@Tudatlan: “…was only learned behavior..” So your answer is that nurture is the determining factor. Such as social and economic conditions and indeed, peer group pressure etc… Learned behaviour can also be unlearned (much, much harder of course). Better still is can be avoided/prevented by improved social conditions, parental guidance, reduced exposure to pschological, social and physical abuse.
LMAO
I am not a racist as racism is now a crime.
After all only Gypsies commit crimes
“You don’t know what road rage”
Well, in addition to the reference Vándorló gave in his post on June 29, 2009 1:37 PM, would you not agree that this crime started with the ‘Schoolteacher’s’ car ‘hit’ the girl?
—
I have seen examples when pedestrians have kicked cars for not stopping in front of a zebra crossing, what would you call that ‘Pedestrian Rage’ or ‘Zebra Rage’?
This was in Sweden and none of the pedestrians were Roma.
—
“6.02.2009
the best English language blog on Hungary
Tünde says:
This site is the best English language blog on Hungary, please don’t let it go, otherwise you leave information on Hungary in English to Balogh Éva and Pestiside.”
Yes, Tünde we all understand you do have a tough life when you regard Varangy as a source of information.
Nice of you to you pop in now and then on us village idiots.
Exremely boring
I live in a large village at the north eastern end of Lake Balaton. There is no work for the locals. The roads are in a sorry state as are the schools.
A lot of the houses, shops, and churches are in need of repair. Most of the young people work abroad. There has been a large influx of gypsies
into the village and, very soon, they will become the majority. Roma cannot find work and most of them are not educated and will struggle to get employed under any circumstances. The situation is the same in many of the villages in the surrounding areas. (Roma and native Hungarians do not mix.)
I spoke with one shopkeeper today who is struggling to pay back a loan she negotiated
with the bank in swiss francs . Many Hungarians are also struggling with house, car, and energy, payments.
The despair and depression is suffocating.
The MSZP government is useless and continues to drag Hungary further into the doldrums with hair-brained schemes to rescue an already doomed economy.
Amnesty Internation, radical jewish groups, and politically correct Americans want to finish the job by nit-picking the so-called “faults” of nasty
Hungarians.
Corruption in Hungary is second to none. Money meant for public use and benefit disappears faster than a rat up a drainpipe. Within two years
the domestic scene has become chaotic and foreign investors are pulling out at a rate of knots.
Sorry, folks, but this is the truth.
I live here in Hugary. I do not post from America or the UK or elsewhere as an ex-p
Amnesty International does the usual suspects’ worth of ‘linking’ of Jobbik and the Garda with discrimination against gypsies and ‘gays’. Linking is a curiously nubile strategy. It lets you avoid direct allegation, so there is no need for substantiation. But why is this august organisation focusing its attention on Hungary, Jobbik and the Garda? Should it not dash off to Ireland to find out why upwards of one hundred Romanian gypsy immigrants fled Belfast in acute fear for their lives and returned to Romania http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6586383.ece? But then, there is no scope for neo-nazi-ing around in Belfast, so Amnesty International is not interested.
Sophie,
As usual total populist BS.
1) AI write their reports per region and why should they mix regions that does not connect, like Hungary and Ireland?
There is no connection there, especially as both the timing and people involved are not connected at all.
Vándorló: How can someone who comes from slime sink lower? You are actually defending Viking’s pathetic “the guy deserved to be kicked in the head 40 times and bleed on the street” in his post full of lies. And you are pathetic in trying to prove this was road rage, or excusable. Neither of you had a comment to that gang not even checking the child.
This could have happened if the man had accidentally knocked down the child on a playground. It has nothing to do with the car.
I did have a comment on the lacházai case and the mayor. Read again you creep, and don’t you dare try to portray me as someone who thinks Hungarians should be let free, or that all gypsies are barbaric criminals. You are such a disgusting liar.
Viking: As I wrote, gypsies attacking cars is not uncommon. They do this to parked police cars and ambulance cars. It is not road rage. It is not because of the car, I have kicked parked cars myself, because the things were parked on sidewalks. I agree, that can be roadrage.
I am glad you posted that, certainly as I posted it, I meant for it to be public, and it shows that you went straight to Varangy’s site to see what he said. Hope you learned something. Yes, I consider him far more intelligent than either you or Vándorló (although that is not a difficult accomplishment). Neither of you have a clue as to what goes on in this country and this is pathetic for people who have been here for almost 20 years.
Please, both you take a drive to Olaszliszka soon.
@QC: Thanks for that sobering comment. While I am very much not Jobbikos, the AI’s etc of the world really need to spend more time in places like where you live, talking to people like you.
Erik: You know Erik, that is exactly the kind of comment that shows you, like Viking 1. nem tudsz magyarul 2. nem olvasol magyar újságokat vagy hírportálokat 3. nem szoktál magyarokkal beszélgetni.
And I think the closest you come to the Hungarian countryside is going through it to Vienna.
Even Balogh Éva posted the Publicus poll which says that the overwhelming majority of Hungarians think that the problem with gypsies is mainly that they don’t have work. (of course to Balogh this is because Hungarians are racist) Others have posted the same. I also posted the same before that here, that the only sensible thing Kolompár said was this. Most of the “extremists” I know think the same thing, and that tension is being created.
QC also wrote: “Amnesty Internation, radical jewish groups, and politically correct Americans want to finish the job by nit-picking the so-called “faults” of nasty Hungarians.”
I would include Pesticide and sites in the latter category.
@Tünde: Please don’t jump to conclusions, I was certainly not condoning, support or attempting to justify the mob behaviour itself and the resulting death of the driver. I should have clarified that, so apologies if that was inferred by others.
I only wished to provide a more widely understood definition of the class of behaviours and the social setting for what is commonly referred to as ‘road rage’. You had erronously assumed this was purely related to car-drivers’ behaviour and their emotional mood. It has, unfortunately become a much broader, ‘wooly’ term.
On the lacházai case you have previously stated that the Roma are genetically distinct and that this is displayed in genetically determined behaviours which are violent and criminal. If you are now retracting that and stating that no such genetic difference exists and that their exists in Roma and ethnic ‘Hungarians’ the same patterns of behaviours which cannot be distinguished genetically and we must look to social and economic roots then I would agree.
Tünde, for my first two years in Hungary (over 15 years ago) I lived in the countryside and still have many friends there. Up until 4 years ago I had not lived in Budapest for more than a week. I have to tell Hungarians what life is like in the countryside, not the other way around. Also, I hardly think someone’s life within 30 minutes drive of Budapest qualifies then to talk about the countryside in such terms. Try the real countryside.
@Tünde: You’ve just exhibited a key trait of the fanatic – the inability to take “yes” for an answer. What you need to understand is that on these sorts of issues (especially the Roma/Gypsy one) I very much do not blindly toe the Amnesty International/SZDSZ line, and I never have. Instead, having grown up in a majority black town in America with a terrible crime problem, I am the classic “liberal mugged by reality,” who hates or at least is deeply scornful of these clueless do-gooders. Furthermore, you need to understand that it does your “side” no favor to attack people who are ambivalent on such issues… remember, in the end it is always the center that decides. Meanwhile, you are dead wrong re my time in the countryside: I spend almost every weekend in the countryside, though the village where I usually go just happens not to be one with many Roma. So don’t presume anything, and learn how to take yes for an answer once in a while.
Vándorló: Oh please, you attacked me and defined roadrage and then said, and I can see you blue in the face in writing “what about Kiskunlacháza?!” What does that have to do with Viking’s sick post I do not know.
Gypsies have different behavioural patterns, shown by Olaszliszka and I am not sure they are not ingrain, as my post at Varangy says. Denying them is stupid and dangerous.
Yes I am qualified to speak about the countryside, until my family was “relocated” to Budapest we have farms in it. I meet reality whenever I return to visit there. And I don’t know where you get the 30 minutes drive but if you are tracking me, piss off. And I am really sick of your tracking the posters on this blog. You must leave a sick and lonely life.
Erik: Yes please do add “fanatic” to list of as “populist, communist, anti market” and the other things you call me when you have no argument to make. And your “yes” was not self-criticism, so it was hypocritical.
You play the objective, but you constantly make comments and list articles (mostly from MTI, must be your only source of information) about “Jobbiks” the “Jobbiks type” (your term) etc. whereas you have no idea what that means. Poll after poll shows that MSZP voters agree with the term “gypsy crime” and they cross voted for Jobbik.
A house in the village does not mean the countryside, and your generalisations of Hungarians, their “work ethic” and the economic problems here shows no understanding or sympathy for how people live outside of Budapest, or even in Budapest.
Tünde,
“Viking’s sick post”
Please specifically mention *which* post you are referring to, like thread and date.
I am unable to find it.
@Tünde: Nyugszik a beteg!!!
Is that you, Mister Ed?
Tünde, I doubt you were more successful at working out why you are a ‘fanatic’, according to Erik, than I was. But it does become apparent that no matter how you exert yourself to engage with the ‘arguments’ of these non-Hungarians (by golly, you even indulged their road-rage canard!), you can expect only senseless insults for your efforts. On their view, it is a ‘given’ that the gypsies were quite entitled to batter the schoolteacher to death. (Perhaps you are a ‘fanatic’ because you fail to concede that.) Sadly, this site, like every other I am aware of, is dedicated to promoting the ‘Hungarians brutalise gypsies’ line.
Erik, I call your attention again to the fate of the Romanian gypsies in Belfast. If anything like that had ever happened in Hungary, you would be entitled to champion the gypsy cause. In the absence from the Hungarian context of any event that is even slightly comparable, try to be big enough to concede that Hungary is indeed doing the best it possibly can to cope with the gypsy crime problem. For its better containment, I commend Jobbik’s proposal: bring the gendarmerie into being.
Sophie,
“Hungary is indeed doing the best it possibly can to cope with the gypsy crime problem”
Actually Jobbik is claiming the toatl opposite. Are you a MSZP-provocateur?
—
“For its better containment, I commend Jobbik’s proposal: bring the gendarmerie into being”
Because your grandfather was a “General” there?
No one has so far been able to even try to give an answer to:
====
- Why is it better and cheaper to build up a totally new organisation, than hire and better train more Police Officers?
====
Are you afraid of the good work the Real Police did now in Kiskunlacháza?
Better to have 2nd grade military units who just pick up the slowest running Roma?
Viking: The post where you lie about the teacher not stopping, say he “hit and run” and justify that a crowd of 30 or more of the girl’s family would surround a man begging for his girls to be spared and brutally kill him while screaming “kill the Hungarian”, but forget to check on the teachers supposed “victim”. And say this would happen anywhere to any ethnic group.
To quote Varangy: ” Ironically, I am the stupid douchebag, as I continue to argue in good faith with the likes of Lars the Viking and Kincs.
My respone to one of Lars’ most moronic comments ever. That is saying a lot. BTW anyone know if Lars the Viking is Down’s Syndrome?”
http://varangy.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2009-03-12T21%3A33%3A00-07%3A00”
Tünde, Sophie: You gals still don’t get it. I am *not* disputing the notion of “Gypsy crime” at all – it’s obvious to me that there is a culture of petty crime in the Roma community, and I am not at all afraid to say it. Moreover, as for me thinking that the folks in Olaszliska “were quite entitled to batter the schoolteacher to death” note that I (of course) not only don’t believe this, but believe they probably deserve the death penalty. All that said, what I am mostly interested in is just having a set of laws that are applied equally, and treating both victims and victimizers as individuals, rather than as members of one group or another.
Sophie: “But it does become apparent that no matter how you exert yourself to engage with the ‘arguments’ of these non-Hungarians (by golly, you even indulged their road-rage canard!), you can expect only senseless insults for your efforts.”
Too true, and you do a brave job on your end.
Erik does not engage in actual debate. He tends to use labels or drop the thing when his (political and economic) points are useless, such as the “Fine for Wehrmacht or Hungarian army memorials, then why not have Soviet army memorials?” thing. But he worked for Thatcher and for tabloids and was an ad salesman, so that is the kind of depth you get from him. Too bad for Hungary that the market in Prague for his kind of work was full and he came here.
And you are right about Hungary doing more than any other country in the region.
For Viking: Is it a question of what is being done and how.
Tünde, thank you! That made regaling reading.
Erik, you say ‘all that said, what I am mostly interested in is just having a set of laws that are applied equally, and treating both victims and victimizers as individuals, rather than as members of one group or another’. Er … so you’ve already got what you want, then? Or are you insinuating that not everyone is equal before the law in Hungary?