Hungary’s lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender federation has asked for talks with President Laszlo Solyom to support efforts seeking protection against threats by extremist groups, an executive of the federation told reporters on Thursday.
The radical nationalist Jobbik party and several extremist organisations have recently agreed to combine forces to prevent this year’s gay dignity march, Sandor Steigler said.
The federation calls on the police and the prosecutor’s office to efficiently act to prevent preparations for criminal activities, Steigler said.
Hungary’s lesbians and gays will not give up plans to hold Budapest’s 14th such march scheduled for September 5, the executive said, adding that organisers relied not only on gays but “all citizens with a commitment for human rights” to attend.
In the past two years the marches were held amid pelting eggs, stones and petrol bombs thrown by thugs in a counter-demonstration organised by extremist groups.
Boring.
And now something completely different:
http://tinyurl.com/ny9l3h
Oh man, he’s just killed Jeff Goldblum !
Still, on the main subject of this thread, let’s hope the extreme organisations stay away and find a more worthy persuit. Knitting or ballet comes to mind.
Politicians for the Ethical Treatment of Assholes.
PETA.
Godot, I wish I had a smidgen of your satire skills. But apart from that: This new development is funny. I wonder if Sólyom will be amused. I image someone will tell them, on the President’s behalf, to bugger off, unless, of course, even that would be to take them seriously.
Sophie,
Maybe you should check up Sólyom before you assume, then when he was the President of the Constitutional Court until 1998, the Constitutional Court had a very important role in laying the groundwork for and strengthening democracy in Hungary. In this role, he significantly contributed to the removal of capital punishment, the protection of information rights, the freedom of opinion and of conscience, as well as the constitutional protection of domestic partnerships of homosexuals, which measures brought wide international acclaim for the Constitutional Court of Hungary.
Yes, read that again “constitutional protection of domestic partnerships of homosexuals”.
So, you understand now why they turn to Sólyom?
Remember that SZDSZ did not support MSZP’s Szili as President in 1995, that is the reason we have Sólyom today. Makes you think?
They may just be hoping that Sólyom will treat this in a non-political way in keeping with the “classic” role of a head of state in a system like Hungary’s, and gently remind everyone that even if you don’t agree with someone or approve of their lifestyle that doesn’t give you the right to beat them up or try to silence them. Which, come to think of it, is what he should be saying about Jobbik as well.
Very well said Erik.
Erik, the classic role of a head of state does not, as far as I can see, include an obligation to defend the right of anyone to stage public exhibitions of sexuality.
I would encourage everyone to stay away from the parade. Let them gays march on an empty street.
Don’t give them the attention they so desperately want. Throwing eggs and stuff sounds like fun, but completely ignoring the event would make a more powerful statement.
Disclaimer: I really don’t care about gays in any way, I just don’t like their parades and other public displays of arrogance, that’s all. Be proud of your achievements not your sexual orientation. How’s that?
@Sophie: Well, I’d say the classic role of a head of state also does not include an obligation to defend the free-speech rights of people who engage in Holocaust denial. But I’d still hope that Sólyom would stick up for these rights, no matter how much the exercising of them might offend the vast majority of Hungarians. And whatever you might believe, Holocaust denial is even less popular in Hungary than flamboyant homosexuality.
You have succeeded to be perfectly obscure, Erik. Are you saying that the President should defend the free-speech rights of people who engage in ‘holocaust denial’, that not being a classic role of a head of state notwithstanding?
As far as I remember, no one was really against homosexuals and lesbians having most rights as others, and I don’t remember discrimination against homosexuals (of course, at that time most people just kept their sexuality to themselves) until they (many of the “they” come here from other countries) began to express those rights as being to parade half naked, acting out sex acts, dressing as priests and using children in their posters, as if the only “right” they really want is to expose themselves and their sexuality in public, and to promote this lifestyle.
I really doubt that anyone would be attacked if they were asking for petitions to have civil unions, but why does it look like none of these people on the parades are interested in a union which lasts more than 5 minutes.
And for a real cause, why doesn’t anyone protect the rights of young boys (many gypsy) in Eastern Europe being forced into homosexual prostitution?
Tünde, I wonder: This ‘lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender federation’ has asked ‘the police and the prosecutor’s office to efficiently act to prevent preparations for criminal activities’. Surely they mean to defend the human rights of children forced into homosexual prostitution, and will be calling for the prevention of the criminal activities of those who do this forcing. They cannot be proposing that their planned sexual exhibitionism in the streets of Budapest is an exercise of their ‘human rights’, can they? Or has the meaning of ‘human rights’ been altered radically while I was not looking?
Sophie: You have a good point. I will ask a pride person next time about their views of children forced into homosexual prostitution. I will say if they call it a dignity march, then they should try to add some dignity to it.
I have worked with homosexual men and women on women’s rights (they don’t participate in the parade). When they do this kind of work, they get attacked, or ignored. If they promote sex in the streets, or explaining homosexuality to children, they get support.
Yes the meaning of human rights has changed.
I certainly recognise the tone of the work context you described, Tunde. Things are very like that in teaching circles too, both in the UK and in Australia. But I swear I shall fight to the death any attempt by these fuddle-headed PC types to alter the established legal meaning of ‘human rights’.
Phooo, with all this dirty talk from Sophie and Tünde about being gay, I’m starting to get naughty images of them together.
JD,
Why don’t you just go back to your favorite child porn site.
Oh come on Godot, don’t tell me you haven’t just ‘pulled one off’ at the thought of Sophie and Tünde together.
OK: “all citizens with a commitment for human rights should attend the gay march”.
Is it a “human right” to be gay? Isnt just a subculture, not something “universal”?
It is very simple.
Anyone who claims that Holocaust denial is right to Free Speech, in the sense that Free Speech cannot be restricted, cannot then claim that other people cannot say and do what they want (inside of the law).
The simple thing is that there exists no law in Hungary that makes anything that has happened in earlier Pride marches illegal, otherwise we all know whom had reported it to the Police.
So, you all Holocaust-deniers, now you have to choose, either you support Free Speech, or you are just as limited as the people who want to introduce laws against Holocaust denial.
So, which side are you on:
- limit Free Speech
- for Free Speech
It is your choice.
Godot has obviously made his choice and he chose Free Speech, even if he does not like this or other Parades. That is his right to do that, inside the definition of Free Speech.
To support Free Speech also means that you accept that other people actually do not agree with you and they actively promote their ideas. Inside Free Speech you can only argue the case, not stop the others from arguing it, or even celebrate it, as the case with this Parade.
If you are peverted and think that bumbashing represents normality: I ask you to think again? Dressing up in sequinned costumes and showing your arse on milkfloats and wearing lederhosen and sporting freddy Mercury moustaches is by any standard, pathetic.
If Jobbik are to be taken seriuously they had better get rid of that prima donna Morvai and get someone in with brains and a determination to change the political malaise in Hungary.
Holocaust denial, again? Even the jews wished they’d never mentioned it.
Viking or, whoever rows your boat – it’s time to fuck off back to Scagland or wherever Erik Bluetooth resides these days. Sophie is a figmnet of her/his own imagination. Another character whose days are numbered on these pages. Get it, Erik??!!
Indeed.
This is news by the administrators. The Hungarian student viciously beaten up by gypsies the other day isn’t.
Remarkable. Shows decent behaviour and good judgment as a jewish outfit.
Will love to screw you later boys!
beju,
You and Roamer suddenly interpret Free Speach that any media must ‘always represent all sides’, even if they did not occur at the same time.
1st I do not represent or being affiliated to this site in any way, so this is strictly my personal opinion, as usual.
2ndly this site, obviously, is very dependent on material in English about Hungary being published by other media first. They just ‘steal’ other media articles. Max a few original/editorial material surfaces every week.
3rdly I also think the output on this site is skewed towards things that will cause a debate on right-wing extremism. You have to ask the editors about this, but the market is tough and a sensitive debate gets many clicks, which means that you can sell ad-space, which means the editors can bring bread home their families.
4thly, there is no such things as ‘unbiased’ media. All media has an owner, an agenda, but they can be more or less inclusive in their reporting. To make the connections beju and Roamer is claiming must be done, that all media ‘must always explain that this action happened due to the other side did that’ is clearly editorial and propaganda and not reporting the news. It is making the news and if you want read more like that type of ‘news’ I would recommend Barikad.hu and Kuruc.info, but they do not publish in English.
Barikad.hu was set up and is controlled by Jobbik, Kuruc.info would not be allowed in many countries in the EU.
As someone who has both nationalists and gays amongst my accquantances I can state with certainty that gay people are typically happy, caring, sociable, peaceful and funloving. Nationalists on the other hand are typically permanently angry, resentful and obsessive. The truth is nationalists hate gay people so much precisely because gays are so happy and laid back.
Reasonable(?)Man(?),
Thank you for another load of stereotypes.
Most people don’t hate gays, they hate the extreme gay movement.
Gays are happy, you say, so what is their problem then? Why do they need to go out to the streets and piss off everybody?
“Nationalists” are angry, probably because they care about this country and frustrated to see how things are going.
You know guys, I would really love to know what news outlets you all get your information from. You say that crime against minority groups like Jews and Gypsies gets all the coverage in the media, right? Then please PLEASE tell me why EVERY damn time I’m in Hungary, and flip on a news channel (let’s say TV2 for example) to watch the 6PM broadcast, they are always talking about how Gypsies are doing crimes all over the place. I can’t remember the last time the media has been pro-Gypsy when I was there. Yet apparently the media is controlled by “ze Jews” who love tolerance. If I was as ill-informed as most of you, and watched the 6pm news in Hungary Monday to Friday, I would probably be chasing Gypsies with a pitchfork right now. The media in Hungary are more in business of creating strife between minorities, than promoting tolerance from everything I’ve ever seen or experienced while back home.
As for gays, I am more conservative on this subject. If you want to be gay, I won’t stop you from this personal preference, just keep it fixed to your private life don’t go forcing it upon everyone else! I don’t go around organizing Bible marches and trying to shove Catholic dogma down everyone’s throats who happen to be taking a stroll downtown in the middle of summer!
Honfi says: “You know guys, I would really love to know what news outlets you all get your information from”.
I don’t know what you mean by “you guys”. I personally get my news from various sources. You have to be blind or ignorant not to notice the media bias. Here’s an example:
A gypsy house was burned down. No one knew who did it, the police investigation just started, but that didn’t keep Mohacsi Viktoria and other gypsy “leaders” from opening their big mouths and blaming it on the Hungarian Guard, Jobbik, etc.
The next day an article showed up in the Times with a title: “Hate war against Hungarian Gypsies” and a picture of the Guard right below.
This is how things work in the media, no proof, no evidence, nothing, only sensationalism and losy journalism. Later it turned out that the Guard had nothing to do with the fire, but no corrections appeared anywhere. If you lived in Hungary, you’d know from experience, gypsies are harrassing Hungarians all over the country on a daily basis, and no one seems to care. When a gypsy gets hurt, it’s automatically blamed on some imaginary “race war”, and in most cases it’s not even true. How much tolerance do we expect from the Hungarian people?
Godot – I should specify, by “you guys” I mean right-wing-neo-con-types, kk? You have to be blind or ignorant not to notice the fact that there is always bias, whether left or right. It is almost impossible to have impartial reporting due to human nature. Just take a look at the US, where you have super-right-wing-bias on networks like FoxNews, or super-left-wing-bias on networks like CBS and CNN. BBC is another example of a left-wing-bias news network I can think of in the West.
Of course, if a gypsy house is burned down, you can’t not prevent people like Mohácsi from not voicing their opinions on TV, just like you can’t prevent people like Budaházy from voicing their opinions. Just because folks have the freedom of speech, it doesn’t mean the media is biased in giving them the right to say what they will. Look at the US and Canada, guys like David Duke can say what they want and get media coverage, nobody prevents them from speaking. Depending on what papers you read (and I read as many as I can to get difference of opinion), then the Times is saying “there is a hate war against gypsies” while a paper like Magyar Nemzet is saying that “the gypsies are bloodthirsty murdering criminals”. Either way, you have media bias, just depends what you call bias because only the side you disagree with is biased and yours is apparently not.
Hofi,
I’m all for free speech, but also personal responsibility. What Mohacsi did was an invitation for violence, and she did that as a politician, not a private person. She’s trying to be the Al Sharpton of Hungary, and stops at nothing to advance her personal agenda. She is paid more than generously by the taxpayers to represent an ethnic group, which just doesn’t feel like contributing. So free speech on a forum like this one by private individuals is one thing, making official and decidedly false statements on a case still under investigation is something else. What we say here is not read by millions and we don’t have the clout of the Times, so what they write is also limited by what they can get away with without being sued. Too bad Morvai Krisztina was busy with her campaign, she could have sued the pants off these bastards.
First of all, it’s Honfi…not Hofi. I’m not Hofi Géza although I wish I could claim I had as great a sense of humour as he did… oh well. Anyway, Godot – again I agree with you more so than not, on the bottom line. You’re for free speech, I’m for free speech. You think what Mohácsi said creates an invitation for violence, and so do I. But what she says creates an invitation to violence as much as Jobbik who constantly give speeches against “gypsy crime”. That is their underlying argument, the “problem of gypsies”. Their very political manifeso creates an invitation to discriminate against the Roma ethnic group, bottom line. Again you are arguing from the side you support, without acknowledging the argument from the other side, which is just as legitimate and steeped in fact as your side is. As for Morvai Krisztina, this popularity-ho will say anything and do anything in order to get popularity. If at one point Trianon is the hot-button topic, she becomes a fervent Horthy-ist. If suddenly the public opinion changes and everyone loves Jews, you will see her putting a prayer paper into the Western Wall in Jerusalem. She says and does anything to achieve public office, and like someone said, herself and her husband probably consider it all a big joke about how easy it is to f*ck around with the small-minded voters of the right-wing.
Kisztina Morvai comments on “dick” etc. come not as a surprise to me. She is married to a circumcised one or was. She knows exactly what she
talks about and she obviously has data-base to compare. Her ,being married ,to a known jewish hungarian TV-talk host,is worrying.
The zionist planted her in our midst.She is a hoax.remove her quickly,before she finds out our dicks are not better.
Viking my dear all!
The information you deemed worthwhile to publish about barikad and kurucinfo are public knowledge.
You surprised me big time here!
In turn you’de be surprised to learn who runs them:)))
The world is not as wide as you envisage my friend.
beju,
Are you claiming that the Jews are running barrikad.hu and kuruc.info?
Dear Honfi,
Oh, I get it. You somehow compare The New York Times, the Fox News Channel to Magyar Nemzet as equally read, consumed and cited news organs in the wide world you happen to live in. Commendable. Who’re you kidding my dear Honfi?
Bias exists at every medium, but the deciding effect on the audience resides with its financial power and outreach. Yes. I will submit a piece with Magyar Nemzet for publishing, they do it and wow…not a soul responds, protests, scream at me, approves … nothing. You are comparing not apples to oranges but Mako to Jerusalem.
Viking,
Who runs those outfits remains a secret. I thought you get my drift when I sent the previous message in temrs of who doesn’t. You can’t be serious I’ll tell you of all people! You are a Jew:)))
beju,
No I am not.
I am Swedish and the chance of any blond blue-eyed Aryan to be a Jew is rather slim.
You on the other hand claim to be Hungarian.
Do you *really* know what your Mothers were 7 generations back?
Remember you are a Jew if any of your Mother was a Jew (or part of), you are an Hungarian or Arab if any of your Fathers 7 generations back were Hungarian or Arab, or part of it.
Given the turmoil the last 7 generations in Hungary, compared with the rather calm water in Sweden, I think I am more sure on my heritage than you.
You know, you cannot chose your parents, or their parents or their parents or their parents….
And dear Viking and agree with that whole-heartedly.
Chances are I do have Jewish blood in my veins, or do not.
But this is not the crux of my beef with you as an Aryan Swede. My crux is with you is beacuse you’re not realizing what this particular minority does to the detriment of my nation. Fortunately for you, you did’t have to deal with them in a mass scale in your homeland to your peril, we Hungarians have had to do it on a daily basis, be it government, media, disinformation, law enforcement, police brutality, taking advantage of a poor soul who does not communicate in a foreign language, have no access to the internet, because they have been deprived of the basic elements of information what goes around them for what evil reason under the disguise of communism. For a jewsih purpose my friend. You didn’t have to throw bricks at advancing Russian tanks for your freedom. You didn’t have to watch Jews running your country for the last 60 years.
Easy for you to make judgments from distant Sweden, which by the way helped these crooks to reside here while they should have been shipped out of my country, now striving in my country with absolutely no knowledge why my type was exiled from my homeland. Of course not.
Tell you something my Aryan Swedish buddy, delve yourself into some history of my nation before you have the balls to lecture someone like me.
Jeez, almost forgot the most renowned Swede, Raoul Wallenberg, since our dispute just cries for arguments up your… you know what, this crook did the most damage in the name of your government. Yet he’s being remembered as a hero.
Don’t you find it puzzling? Hero my ass my friend.
You should listen to what your neighbors tell you about your behavior during the war years. It ain’t pretty my Swedish frind. Your ladies are saving you in my book.
So please lay off with your liberal-type bullshit with me with regards to Hungary. You don’t know shit.
Good one JD,
What a dumbass you are:)))
Remember sending out itineraries for your marriage in Las Vegas. California doesn’t allow it anymore.
Beju, I am honestly surprised at the fact that somehow you think if an article appears about “racism against gypsies” (supposedly, I haven’t seen it) in the New York Times, Fox News, whatever, that people in the West actually retain this in their memory banks for longer than 2 seconds, besides Abraham Foxman and the ADL. Remember, the New York Times and Fox News also report on things like Paris Hilton’s new best friend, and I promise you that sticks in the memory banks of Western folk much longer than what’s going on in the backwaters of Eastern Europe. There are bigger humanitarian cases like Darfur, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq and Sri Lanka that people are actually protesting here in the West (as you would know, being in California) than the plight of Hungarian gypsies. Every average European is just as about racist-minded towards the Roma as a Jobbik supporter, whether they wear it on their sleeve or not. Believe me, I know quite a few Europeans from quite a few countries, and this racism is continent wide. Some few take the high road and put aside prejudice, but a report in a paper be it the Magyar Nemzet or New York Times about anti-gypsy racism is going to get the same ‘backlash’ that Mohácsi Viktoria’s speech will in Tel Aviv. Next to nil. Hell, Canada even has an unofficial policy of not taking Roma into the country, they ask Hungarians and Romanians specifically whether they are Roma as part of the immigration process…
Viking, I would watch it with my comments because even though I support your views most of the time, you seem to get rather one-sided too. Swedes are “Aryan”? Last time I checked, Aryan refers to the Iranian and Median tribes who settled in Iran, Afghanistan, Western Pakistan, and the Caucasus territories. Iran is the land of the historical Aryans “Arya” is an old Iranian word for “noble”. Nazis just skewed the ideology to apply “Aryan” to Germanic peoples, which is hilarious. Aryans are black haired, tanned, and generally hairy folks in Grozny, Tehran, Baku, Kabul, Waziristan, etc who are now mostly Muslim and spoke shisha as a past time. I don’t remember the last time I met a Scandinavian who considered themselves “Aryan”. Scandinavian, Germanic, Viking, whatever, sure. Aryan, no.
Dear Honfi,
You’d be surprised what information gets retained.
I subscribe to the New York Times myself, I don’t know how long if they continue besmearing my nation any further, but that’s beside the point. It seems to me however that you underestimate what audience they muster either in their printed copies or internet forms.
Nowhere near does Magyar Nemzet amidst Hungarian Americans carries such converting, convincing arguments, unless one takes the time and researches it themselves in their living rooms at home, I can attest to that. Due to disattachment from the home front. It is imperative for any nationalist government to change this practice immediately, the second they come to power.
The media have extraordinary power and influence. Orban didn’t deal with this in his first crack at it, but if he doesn’t do it next time around, it will prove my point to you. And I do not see him being up to it, because he’s part of the establishment. That’s why my choice is Jobbik.
Dear Beju,
Why the bloody hell do you subscribe to NYT first of all? It’s a load of crock, stop wasting your money. I can get your free passwords to go on their site daily and get the same shite, but that’s besides the point too. Hungary rarely makes the international news, believe me I’m very interlinked with international affairs, and the few times we do crack the cover are always to do with us borrowing money from guys like the IMF (or rarely, protests like in 2006 which got like 2 minutes coverage on CNN). Nobody is besmearing Hungary, I seen tonnes more of Russia, France, and Germany being “besmeared” in the papers than I do Hungary, so stop your panicking and chill out. I don’t underestimate what audience they muster because I am amazingly quite in touch with vast networks of people, and never has anyone come to me in memory and said “Hey Honfi, you are a dirty racist Gypsy killer because I read this in the New York Times!”. Jobbik is probably in the fine-print, ultimately all part of some kind of Socialist Gladio style strategy in order to build paranoia in the Hungarian electorate and isolate right-wingers like yourself by shortly empowering them and then afterwards effectively knowing who was a Jobbik supporter. It will be easier to pinpoint the super-right-wing nerds than sending out an official government survey asking “Who hates Jews and Gypos” don’t ya think? Playing right into their hands my dear Beju, better watch out.
Honfi,
I use the description ‘Aryan’ in the Nazi-interpretation, because that is the only interpretation beju, Sophie, etc knows about.
We both know they never read anything else but the Nazi-propaganda.
In my circles we have sometimes used the word to describe ourselves against typical Neo-Nazis who does not ‘fit the bill’, like I am doing here.
The Nazis regarded the ‘Nordic’ people as being good examples of ‘Aryan’ in their interpretation.
Sometimes it is funny to beat them with their own arguments, but I can understand that some other people can be offended by it.
My point is though that all the Hungarian, or Slovak for that matter, Neo-Nazis really missing the point that in the Great Plan Hitler had for Eastern Europe taking away the Jews, the Roma, the HomoSexuals (except the 15-20% inside the Nazi-party), Communists, etc, the locals (Hungarian, Slovaks, etc) were to be severely decimated. They locals were supposed to work as servants to the proud German people in their new Lebensraum. I remember the ratio of 1/20, meaning the Nazi calculation was to keep 5% of the population.
Would beju have done the cut?
On the other hand, checking old Soviet-posters on the idealized Worker, they looked rather similar actually. Making one to wonder why so two different ideologies had the same “blond-haired, blue-eyed physical ideal”?
I have though not seen any description on Bela Kun ‘fitting the bill’.
If gays would just practice their unatural art within the confines of their own homes then there would be no reason to seek the presidents help against extremism, there would not be any. the extremism is in most part caused by their own actiobs.
As Tibor Takacs rightly put it, the bum bashing should try and act like normal human beings and refrain from parading themselves on floats down Andrassy ut! Don’t see a reason for it?
I have no problem with them bum bashing each other, just don’t advertise it and definitely I do not want to see the queers advertsing that homosexuality is a normal activity in front of kids!
Other than that peace to them!
John Simpson,
We put you down as another in the opposition to Free Speech.
If any one breaks any laws, which previous Parades obviously have not done, please feel free to report that to the Police.
Exactly like you are reporting all those politicians you claim to steal money.
Viking would you not agree if i maintain that
hungarian constitution needs a “common-sense”
overhaul?
Is “freedom of speech” really the highest value
one can think off.?
It seems in hungary the “tail wags the dog” instead the other way around.In politics,in business and in morals and ethics.
Isn’t it time to get some sense ?
Judas
Dear Honfi,
Why does one subscribe to a newspaper? Let me think you internationally respected piece of nobody. Some people like reading papers on the can, are not always in the vicinity of a computer to click on the given website, get an access code they forget, or don’t want to do it. This probably never occurred to your global outreach.
But go right ahead and furnish me with one.
Beju, oh I am so sorry to have trodden on your sensitive ego. First you go complaining about Jews owning the media, now you are defending the very media they are said to control (not to mention lining their pockets with money by way of subscriptions lol). I really doubt you read the newspaper thoroughly either, otherwise you would not pretend to be under the assumption that Hungary is besmeared all over the place on a constant basis (especially not in the Western media). Like I said – Germans, French, and Russians should be the ones mounting protests outside American and Israeli embassies. My actual job is connected to international organs, so while you sit on your ass and surf white-alliance and read NYT at your Friday night KKK rallies, I’m actually constantly kept aware of whats happening from sources that have a 360 degree cultural, religious, and political perspective. Doesn’t sound like you’re too tech savvy from what I gather, probably something else to blame the Jews of Hungary and the world about isn’t it? If you were so “updated” and actually took the time to read more than one paper, you probably wouldn’t have the skewed sense of reality than currently makes you a level one douchebag.