June 30th, 2009

Parliament rejects bid to change constitution to punish Holocaust denial

Parliament on Monday rejected the ruling Socialist party’s proposal for a constitution change which aimed to make Holocaust-denial punishable.

In a vote of 189 to 165 and 5 abstentions, deputies voted down the Socialist proposal to lift Holocaust-denial, currently regulated by the Criminal Code, to a constitutional level.

The Socialists put forward the proposal in the wake of a neo-Nazi gathering in Budapest Castle in April, where speakers made remarks denying the Holocaust.

Socialist MP Gergely Barandy said earlier in parliament on Monday that through the vote it would transpire whether the main opposition Fidesz party was willing to distance itself from extremist forces.

A civil group, the Szabadsag (Liberty) Kor, said that adopting the Socialist tightening would only strengthen extremist manifestations. Spokesman for the group Gergely Gulyas said that a consensus had formed over the past 20 years of the limitations of sanctioning hate speech and that society must differentiate between politically rejecting such manifestations and making them a subject of criminal law.

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  • Sophie

    This is a relief. But it was a close call. Does anyone know of any estoppel measure that can prevent this issue coming before parliament again? For instance, can a new parliamentary initiative on constitutional change with regard to this issue be set aside by the Constitutional Court?

  • judas

    dear sophie,
    do not give up and try to prevent it.
    It will however pass.If not now than at least
    once victor “turban” gets his turn…..

  • Sophie,
    Parliament is the legislative branch, they can vote for the same issue 10 times per day if they think that is funny.
    The Constitutional Court can just say that a law is not according to the valid Constitution and appropriate EU-law, not dictate how it should be or how it should be voted for or not.

    In this case if the following is true:
    “proposal to lift Holocaust-denial, currently regulated by the Criminal Code, to a constitutional level”
    It will hardly be a problem for the Constitutional Court, if the actual Law is already valid.
    A Law can hardly become bad if it is written into the Constitution. If that is bad, then the Law should be bad and then the Constitutional Court should had said that before.

  • fabian

    Judas@ I fear you may be right,let us hope sanity prevails,Jobbik need to have enough seats in the next parliament to oppose this deliberate restriction of free speech and liberty.

  • fabian,
    If now the question was to lift a piece of legislation from one set of laws (Penal Code) to the Constitution:
    – How would this in itself constitute a “deliberate restriction of free speech and liberty”
    It will not be more correct or incorrect to break the law.
    The difference is just that the Constitution is harder to modify.

  • Justice

    What a great descision Freedom still to question this event.

  • Sophie

    Fabian, I am having a devil of a time trying to understand the role of the Constitutional Court. I am aware that a two-third majority of votes in the Chamber can recommend an amendment of the Constitution, and that the recommendation is subject to the approval of the President and the acceptance by the Constitutional Court of the constitutional validity of the amendment. If I am wrong, then in what sense is the Constitutional Court the guardian of the Constitution? (The heck! I am beginning to understand why the Australian Constitution can be amended by referendum only.)

  • beju

    Finally, common sense prevailed over systematic zionist pressure. Why them may I ask for special treatment? Why not the hundreds of thousands of Hungarians soldiers, their families defending our country from these jewish crooks over two world wars? Why not legislate denial of the jewish brokered holocaust thought regime against our compatriots as a crime? Because they wouldn’t like it?
    You people (jews raping my country) really do have a death wish.
    Let it be not us having to execute that wish.
    But if you continue I’ assure you, you’ll get it.

  • fabian

    It is nothing more than the means used to silence those who dare to ask questions that makes it obvious that something indeed is being hidden here-
    Whatreallyhappened.com.
    For the REAL news every day.

  • Sophie

    Fabian, beju et al. I’ve been on the Constitution thing all day, and I’m still stranded. Please tell me, is there an enabling statute, or something like it, that established the Constitutional Court? I am trying to find out whether it has powers of intervention in matter that bears upon the Constitution. My main problem is that I am just not used to working my way around a constitution in a civil law context. The only constitution I have lived with is the Australian, and that is in a common law context. (The UK, of course, does not have a written constitution.) So if you can point me in the right direction at least for further research, I shall be very grateful.

  • @Sophie: Beju, Ricsi, Stan etc… have never read the Hungarian constitution in any language and probably never will. They (like you to be honest) are not interested in a parliamentary democracy and a social market economy.
    Anyway, in the vain hope of something better: http://www.mkab.hu/ is probably what you are looking for. There is a choice of languages.

  • Sophie

    Vándorló, thank you. The link is what I need.

  • Sophie,
    “Vándorló, thank you. The link is what I need.
    Sophie at July 1, 2009 1:47 PM”

  • Sophie

    wannabe Viking: You are masterly at putting your abyssmal ignorance on display. Is it too much for you to understand the difference between the document ‘Constitution of Hunagary’ and the enabling statute of the Constitutional Court? Vándorló pointed me to the latter. Now bugger off!

  • beju

    Vandorlo,
    What gave me away as someone unlikely of reading the current Hungarian Constitution in your inquisitive mind?
    Is it the unchallengeable fact, that this particular piece of document has nothing to do in terms of legitimacy, legality and descendancy with the history and tradition of the country?
    FYI. It is the successor patchwork of the Stalinist constitution of 1949 embroidered together by a gang of criminals to save their greedy, indiscriminate hunger for continuing power.
    If you read it and haven’t realized it yet, go back to grade 2 and stop wandering around aimlessly.

  • beju

    This reprehensible initiation deserves every chance of having been struck down by legislators.
    The jews will keep on trying, but in a perverse way, should they succeed having it passed, it would seal their fate in the country for good.
    I don’t get the concept by the way. Death wish they have.
    As tall as their heights. 4 foot 2.

  • mike

    who cares who denies what…facts are facts and the fact is
    holocaust happen all the time. [check out gaza, innocents
    dieing…when is dieing ever good?]
    why doesnt the hungarian government concentrate on helping the
    living with betterment of food [non of the tainted crap that we see
    for sale in Tesco, etc. – which should illegal, in most western
    countries it is ironically], anyway…
    nah, lets argue and not see whats happening around us. Much
    better, no?

  • Dear Sophie,
    “Is it too much for you to understand the difference between the document ‘Constitution of Hunagary’ and the enabling statute of the Constitutional Court?”
    Well on my link http://www.mkab.hu/en/enpage5.htm, you will find the following titles:
    – Constitution
    – Act on the Constitutional Court
    – Rules of procedure
    The difference between my link and Vándorló’s link is that his is higher up in the site’s hierarchy, my link goes directly on the different Acts in English and skips the BS.
    So you can try to be bit more true and stop lying all the the time, even about these simple facts that anyone can easily check, because this is a fact and not an opinion.

  • @Viking: Corner liars and self-deceivers like Sophie, Tünde,… and they will never admit it. Just never. ‘Liars need good memories’ and it appears they are cerebrally challenged in that department too. And she may eventually skim those documents and records but none of it will go in. You do a good job trying to help them, but take it easy, their preconceived, set thinking isn’t going to budge at all.

  • AfricanAmerican

    You’re all scum. Ya’ll would have no problem supporting a law that would ban people from not spreading hatred against your people, but here you are like urchin praisining your right to slander another race and their suffering.

  • Al Sharpton

    Tell ’em like it is brother.
    White men can’t jump, and they ain’t got no rhythm. And Bush doesn’t care about black people.
    Why can’t we all just get along?

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