Granting Hungarian citizenship to ethnic kin living in neighbouring countries would not altogether resolve their typical problems, Foreign Minister Peter Balazs said on the Hungarian television programme Nap-kelte on Monday.
The main opposition Fidesz party would like to see the issue tabled in parliament during its autumn session, MP Zsolt Nemeth told MTI.
Balazs said in the TV programme that applications for Hungarian citizenship should continue to be dealt with on an individual basis. He added that whenever ethnic Hungarian issues were raised in the political arena it was usually motivated by the desire to reinforce the voter base of the party championing them.
Hungarian citizenship should be granted on an individual basis, Nemeth said in agreement with the foreign minister. Nemeth added that he saw a favourable turn in the — often heated — discussion over the citizenship issue.
Balazs also reiterated the government’s position that members of Hungarian communities in other countries should be helped “in the pursuit of happiness… to suffer no discrimination, to prosper and to stay in touch with the world outside.”
Approaches focusing on communities, rather than on the individual, such as assistance provided to schools, religious organisations or cultural movements are the ones that have proved successful in Europe, Balazs noted.
In 2004, Fidesz supported a referendum in which voters were asked whether to automatically grant preferential Hungarian citizenship to members of all Hungarian communities outside the country. The referendum was invalid due to low turnout at the polls.
The pro comunist media influenced the hungarian public not to accept it!
Later on the pro comunist government appologized that it was a big misstake, but they know that before the voteing as well!
First they influenced, than apologized!
Great, so what do we do whit their appology?
It was a dirty and sneaky antihungarian plan, what unfortunately it succide!
Shame! We would never wash down this shame, thx again to that organised criminal procomunist government what we have the last 7years, we left 5millian from the 15millian hungarian people outside the borders again!!!
Very sad reality strategic step is to keep reminding everyone of the current governments disgusting History.
“The number of illegal border crossings detected by the Hungarian authorities this year has already exceeded the total for the whole of 2008, border police said last Tuesday.” (Budapest Times Aug 3, 2009).
More of the wandering, nomadic type, clammering at
the gates of the over-generous gypsy welfare state
formerly known as Magyarorszag!
The pro comunist media influenced the hungarian public not to accept it!
Later on the pro comunist government appologized that it was a big misstake, but they know that before the voteing as well!
tucsokmarcal at August 4, 2009 8:27 PM
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1) Yes, blame the Bad Media that we lost.
Obviously the arguments for granting Hungarian citizenship to more Roma was not so popular among Hungarians living in Hungary proper.
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2) Now you are making it up, as you can see in the article above, MSZP never changed their mind on this proposal – to give Hungarian citizenship to everyone who wanted, just claiming they are Hungarian. It is no problem in Romania to register one-self as ‘Hungarian’.
You also lost the part that Fidesz promised everyone who got Hungarian citizenship would get some money, which made the Romanian Roma more interested to register as ‘Hungarians’.
===
This does *not* mean I am against supporting ‘ethnic Hungarians abroad’, but it must be done in such a way they can stay where they are and keep up their Hungarian language and culture. This is not the same thing as giving them Hungarian citizenship, that does not help them a shit, except making it easier for them to move to Hungary proper, abandoning the territories. This just makes any claim on autonomy harder and harder in the future.
Also, with the EU, the actual Nationality of your passport becomes less important, as long it is one of the member states.
To Viking
The MSZP continuosly changeing their mind in
everything, so dont say ….. things.
You saying the same thing what they said before.
You realy belive that people from outside of
hungary whit a hungarian passport will go to
hungary to live there. You realy dont know
nothing.
If they go somewhere, or gypsi or hungarian, or
what every, they will go to UK, or France,
Germany, Spain, you know, the rich countryes.
By the way the 5 mill hungarian lived outside of
hungary for almost 100years know, and they where
continously accuseed, discriminated, or jailed or
worse. They are still there bicaus ethat is their
home. Do you realy belive that they will live
their homes just bicause of a citizenship.
Do you know them?
I know a lot of them from Erdely, from felvidek.
ITs not what they can do whit the citizenships,
its what the citizenship do whit them.
The answhere is that they will finaly feel that
they are part of hungary and not just some
minority in a diferent country.
It give them a feeling that Hungary is whit them,
is helping them, and hungary wont forget them.
It means that we stick togeather, and we are one
nation, even if we live in diferent country.
I think that your barin is to primitive to
understand this.
The answhere is that they will finaly feel that
they are part of hungary and not just some
minority in a diferent country.
It give them a feeling that Hungary is whit them,
is helping them, and hungary wont forget them.
It means that we stick togeather, and we are one
nation, even if we live in diferent country.
tucsokmarcal at August 22, 2009 10:50 PM
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Maybe that some people will feel that, *but* a Hungarian citizenship will not improve any ones legal status in Slovakia or Romania.
It could even be an excuse to take away their Slovak and Romanian citizenship, then some countries, like Sweden until a few years would immediately revoke the Swedish citizenship if a Swedish citizen took out a US passport (a well-known example from the Olympic Winter Games in Nakano). Exactly this has Slovakia or if it was Romania threatened with. To give out citizenships is a National question and not regulated by the EU.
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If the Hungarian President cannot come and go as he wants in Old big Hungary, why do you think Dual Citizenship will actually improve the situation for ethnic Hungarians living in Slovakia and Romania?
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I have had reasons to visit Schwäbishe parts of Hungary lately. Many of them identifying themselves more and more with Germany. Would you feel it as a good thing if the German State started giving out German Passports to these Hungarians?
And the German Bundes-Kansler popping over a couple of times every year without meeting any Hungarian counter part?
Viking,
You are so full of shit with your alleged explanations why Hungarians are deprived of citizenship when everywhere else is obligated by the mother country. Not just first, but second, third , fourth generations.
Man, you are truly a piece of work. Like Israel didn’t give you citizenship for spouting your crap at the expense of Hungary you fucking lowlife. No country in its normal mind would refuse citizenship for its brethren. You fuck!
And dear assholes,
I’d be wondering what citizenships you all hold living in MY country?
What gives you the right to actually question the inherent right of Hungarians living in the expropriated parts of Hungary for Hungarian citizenship?
Of course the answer is plain. Were they be granted citizenship, your type wouldn’t stand a chance winning or rigging any election and would be booted out on a fast track back to Israel right?
Viking,
I know the situation in Romania. If today Hungary
announces that it has decided to grant citizenship
for the ethnic kin the Romanians would at most
yawn.
And the ethnic Hungarians in Romania would be as
well unimpressed. It meant a lot back then when it
was first discussed as it had a powerful symbolic
value and a practical value.
But today when Romania is in EU this move is more
for the home-voters, for the Erdely’s magyars it
is both too late symbolically and practically
worth nothing.
It may even complicate their lives since it would
give to the hard-core Romanian nationalists
another reason to charge the ethnic hungarian
politicians (which until recently have been part
of the governing coalition for many years) with
disloyalty to the Romanian state, and perhaps even
contest their right to do politics in Romania to
begin with.
Viking: I knew that I should have followed my instinct not to look at this site.
1.The majority of ethnic Germans were settled in Hungary by the Habsburgs. In part to give them land and in part to insert a German minority which would be loyal to them, and not to Hungary (and they did this not only here, in all of the Austrian empire). This cannot be compared to Hungarians whose land was taken in what every thinking person knows to be an unjust treaty.
2.Ethnic Germans here, and everyhere, DO have rights to German citizenship. Not as simple to get it now than in 1992, but they still have it. They are called auslandsdeutsche. I doubt any Hungarian has a problem with this. I don’t. And I since they aren’t leaving for Germany in the past 20 years now, I don’t think they will now. Pávaszem pointed out some time back, ethnic Germans here have Hungarian identity. Which is amazing, considering how the Hungarian communists treated them. Many who were deported in the ethnic cleansing of Germans in 1945-1948 escaped back to here.
„Affection for the Hungarian language is as general among the ethnic Germans as their attachment to their soil. “We are the only German ethnic group that doesn’t want to live in Germany,” Mr. Baling said, citing the contrary example of ethnic Germans in all other Eastern and Central European countries, who are in their majority lured by Germany’s prosperity.„ http://www.nytimes.com/1990/11/12/world/evolution-in-europe-hungary-s-germans-reasserting-identity.
Viking cont. Hungarian Jews have dual citizenship, and the ones living in Israel regularly take part in Hungarian elections, and they normally vote left. So let us think for a moment why the current „left„ wing here doesn’t want across border Hungarians, who vote right, having voting rights?
„This is not the same thing as giving them Hungarian citizenship, that does not help them a shit, except making it easier for them to move to Hungary proper, abandoning the territories.”
No it does not, because they can already come here and get citizenship easier than non-ethnic Hungarians. And re: abandoning territories, any Hungarian would be a fool to leave any neighboring country, except for maybe Ukraine, to come to this country now. The point for them is to be a part of Hungary. The point for MSZP was to deny them voting rights.
And finally, I agree fully with beju. What gives you the right to spout off on citizenship rights of other peoples? Why don’t you complain about the fact that Finns in Finland are still required to learn Swedish (I always thought that strange) and that Swedes in Finland have Swedish citizen rights, because Sweden conquered Finland?
You are right in your point on Hungarian Roma across borders, and on EU citizenship (by that time it will be too late for cross border Hungarians to affect Hungary’s path), but otherwise, like in your Olaszliszka post, you don’t have your facts straight. I suggest do a little preliminary research next time.
Tünde@Why would Viking bother with research-that would not fit his agenda! Nice to see you back,take care.
@Tünde Swedes in Finland have Swedish citizen rights, because Sweden conquered Finland?
No, they don’t have. Finnish Swedes are Finnish citizens. They do have very good minority rights, but nothing to do with Swedish state.
Tünde,
We all know that ‘ethnic Hungarian’ have no problems getting work permit if they chose to come here and work. They will also easy get Hungarian citizenship in Hungary if they chose to settle here, so that is no problem.
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I do *not* discuss the feeling any ‘ethnic Hungarian’ will have getting an Hungarian citizenship more or less automatically just being ‘ethnic Hungarian’ living abroad. I fully agree that some will feel good with that, but that is not the point of discussion.
-
The point of discussion is if this will *advance* the conditions for these ‘ethnic Hungarian’ living abroad?
What is tactical correct in the current situation?
What if the Serbian, Slovak and Ukrainian Governments (not the Romanian according to the opinion of Gheorghe Stoica) would do how the Swedish Government always did before and revoke their citizenship if the ‘ethnic Hungarian’ got Hungarian citizenship automatically? Is that then a good tactic and how would that improve these ‘ethnic Hungarian’ situation in their current country?
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It cannot be like that, that the Hungarian Right-wing is trying to win votes from the ‘ethnic Hungarian’ living abroad, by 1st giving them voting rights in Hungary?
-
Your argument on dual citizenship for Jews, works 2-ways.
Maybe you should start a campaign to revoke the Hungarian citizenship for those holding any other citizenship?
-
‘Mystery Shopper’ answered you on the situation in Finland/Sweden.
“I suggest do a little preliminary research next time”
Viking: As I said, do some research. There are national and international laws on citizenship. All the neighbouring countries have laws on dual citizenship for their own nationalities as well. You cannot just revoke someone’s citizenship, although Romania threatened it. Especially as then Hungary could do the same. We have an entire MTA Ethnic and Nationality Institute and the govt. do preliminary research on this. And if the country in question does not allow dual citizenship (I do not know of one neighbouring country, maybe the Ukraine) then the individual decides which one they wish.
Yes it was about the right to vote for MSZP SZDSZ. You cannot possibly be that dumb. THEY DO NOT WANT THEM HERE! My argument on Isreali Hungarians was about voting. I did not say to ban their dual citizenship, but it is annoying they travel here to vote.And I noticed you ignored the ethnic German point.
You are not discussing anything. You say, as you always do, what Hungarians should and should not do. And if it is good or not for Hungarians, I really think that is a matter for Hungarians to decide and not people who live here, especially who have no information on the facts.
No MS did not answer my question. So Finns are required to learn Swedish, 5% of their population (used to be over 10%, but they all left for Sweden), because of the ethnic Swede’s excellent minority rights? True they are excellent, I wish Hungarians had such rights.
Viking cont. I hate answering posts of idiots (95% of the posters here, in this case primarilz to MS), it is such a waste of time. Why didn’t you and MS bother to link proof? I will answer that. Because you both had no clue and you are too lazy to research the topic. I was right that ethnic Swedes in Finland have easier access to citizenship, but wrong that this does not apply also to Finns there. All nordic countries give automatic rights to citzenship to other nordic countries (only citizens of birth, not naturalised citizens). This was originally to encourage exclusivity, but now with 2 generation immigrants it probably makes little difference. Both countries accept dual citizenship.http://www.migrationsverket.se/english.jsp?english/emedborg/emedborg.html
Re: doing some research. Try it some time. Or at least once.
Ricsi: Thanks, but not back for long. Too much to do!
So Finns are required to learn Swedish, 5% of their population (used to be over 10%, but they all left for Sweden), because of the ethnic Swede’s excellent minority rights?
In Finland you are teached Swedish 2 lessons per week for three years (gardes 7 to 9). Doesn’t mean same as learning it. If you want to work in county, city, state jobs, then you need to pass language exam. If you know that you will not for the state, then why bother.
Finnish exodus to Sweden since 60´s has nothing to do with minority rights. Economy was the reason. Sweden’s export oriented economy needed workforce. And they had the good old thing to that always gets you fast more workers: Better salary. Even in early 80′s basic factory worker would have 30% better salary in Sweden than in Finland. And one week longer summer holidays.
Tünde,
I wrote “some countries, like Sweden until a few years would immediately revoke the Swedish citizenship if a Swedish citizen took out a US passport (a well-known example from the Olympic Winter Games in Nakano)”.
You want proof?
What about this:
“During the Nagano Olympics, he was ejected from the Swedish team when it was discovered that he had requested and received a US citizenship. His Swedish citizenship was revoked and he wasn’t allowed to play. In 2003, when Sweden permitted double citizenships, Ulf got his Swedish passport back. The entire ordeal was listed as the seventy-second most important international story by the IIHF in their centennial celebrations in 2008″
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulf_Samuelsson)
–
So this *was* the rule until 2003.
The only ones that were exempted to have dual citizenship was those who could not revoke their citizenship, like Turks.
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You claimed that “You cannot just revoke someone’s citizenship, although Romania threatened it”, is a bit of a contradiction.
Of course any country can revoke any of its citizens their citizenship if that country’s leader so decide, like how Sweden did automatically before 2003.
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It is just that Romanian reaction I have claimed makes it a bad idea to give out Hungarian citizenship on a *collective* basis (= no individual application needed).
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The German thing is that they before always had the right to move ‘home’, not really get a German Passport living abroad. Then all DDR would had that.
Tünde–Me too ,always busy these days,which in a way is great because I do not waste time with these idiots and provokers.Watch your security for they will always try to attack you in a cowardly way-it is the their only way! See you around soon…..
The Magyar Szovetsege also supports the giving of dual citizenship.
So, then the conclusion is that, except for giving a nice feeling for some ‘ethnic Hungarians’ abroad, ‘forced’ Dual Citizenship would not make their life easier and would not protect them from any harassments and discriminations in their place of habitat?
It could actually just make the situation worse for them, then it would give the local ‘Nationalists’ arguments to question their loyalty.
The better solution, but with less confrontation, would be to work inside the EU framework for more integration, not assimilation, for different minority groups inside the EU.
The new Slovak Language Law is a typical thing to build a broad alliance against and not split forces with different more or less confrontational side-tracks.