Hungary gave wings to Germans and Germany will never forget this, Chancellor Angela Merkel said in expressing gratitude to Hungary for the Pan-European Picnic and the ’breakthrough’ at which hundreds of East Germans fled to Austria on August 19, 1989.
She described the Hungarians action in opening the border as “very brave”.
A composition by sculptor Miklós Melocco was unveiled at Sopronpuszta.
Swedish Foreign Minister Carl Bildt, representing the current EU presidency, said the real future of Europe began in 1989 as the changes altered the lives of millions of people and created freedom and democracy in the East Bloc.
Prime Minister Gordon Bajnai met Merkel at a ceremonial concert.
Does Hungary any longer have an identity?
This is a good question to think in wider context. Currently the standard reponse is “Vesszen Trianon” and nothing beyond that. In 2009, is there anymore things, ideas, values that present Hungarian identity today. Only present idea that has support from all political sides is the idea of “nem számla” in business transactions.
speaking as a foreigner (a romanian, thus one not
fond of the vesszen-trianon-talk) when I think of
Hungary I think of beautiful women, wonderful old
architecture, a western-like style of social-
interaction, the potential for high-level
culture….and also a sense of apathy/depression
and tendency of living in the (half imaginary)
glorious past which I don’t like.
As far as I understand the situation, the
communist and early post-communist hope, longing
for the western world (EU and US) has subsided,
has come to an end and to disenchantment.
Now it is open to the sight that it has been more
advertisment than substance to it.
But this is something one could have predicted had
it been more knowledgable of the rather empty,
void of meaning, typical American life.
Nationalism and grandiose celebrations come now to
fill this void of meaning and direction. How good
they will do in the end would be another question.
Thus problem is not hardship, people went through
wars similigly if they believed in what they were
fighting for, the problem is the lack of
perspective, of a goal for Hungary. In such a
purposeless condition any trouble, any irritation
seems to painful to bear and any sacrifice
demanded seems too much to be asked for.
From my personal travels through Hungary the one thing the Hungarian government has managed to do, is let the Hungarian people loose their identity and create a country of depressed people who do not seem to believe in anything positive for themslves or their future……
Why is the Government responsible for people “loose their identity and create a country of depressed people who do not seem to believe in anything positive for themslves or their future”.
Hungarians did not strike me as very optimistic and future-looking when I moved to Hungary in 1993.
The most used phrase I remember was always “Ahh, this will be a big problem!”
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Blaming the Government from everything from the weather to the ‘Hungarian mood’ is just a bit Hungarian.
And who did they blame during the Kadar-time?
Like “justasking” is doing on other threads, the main concept for Hungarian nationalists is to look only in the past. And yet they don’t seem to learn from it at all.
…which takes us to todays question that how others see Hungarian “white thrash”. There is big Hungarian segment in society that is bascially living on welfare/black economy area. Doing exactly the same what a lot of gypsies are blamed of doing; Being parasites. The Hungarian white thrash population – problem or strenght of the nation?
Mystery shopper;
What exactly does “Hungarian Nationalist” mean?
What leason am I too learn? Do you think that I am so basic that I do not comprehend the crisis that in my opinion, Hungary is facing/in?
” Hungarian White trash” WoW-thats just rough. You think other countries do not have any parasites? Peoples that would rather abuse a countries generosity for their own gain?
” Hungarian white trash society”-problem or strenghth of a nation? I would have to say strenghth for you know who there are and how to correct it.
How do you correct a society(I’m assumming you live in Hungary) that have members so bitter that they feel quite comfortable verbally abusing it and knocking it down for all the world to see?
A country in my opinion is like family, you love them warts and all. You do not throw them to the wolves at first opportunity.
I have to admit, your comments did take me back.
@ justasking
I slumpped you with the Hungarian Nationalist camp as your first postings were mostly the same basic stuff what the cigany hating, arpad colours loving, kick the foreigners out, jews are behind everything, jobbik is final solution posters tend to write on this site.
I fully understand how you construct your views on patriotic ethos, but I come from different perspective. Majority of the Hungarian nationlist online publications take some benchmark year/timeframe (be it Kádár years, Horthy Era, pre-Triannon, 1848 etc) and set that as the thing we must return. Living on past glories, always looking into past, looking for the golden age but never coming up with any practial solutions for todays issues and problems. For them a nation is neatly packaged, crystal clear picture set on iron rules.
My take on this is that a nation is a living complex that changes during generations, even in decades (like Finland in 1990´s). Nations live this day and tomorrow and future, they are not in any empty Brezhnevski stagnation vacuum. State and government must be held accountable for their actions (and non-actions) but I also expect that state can also have demands whne it comes to it’s citizens. When there is freedoms and rights, there must also be responsibilities. And here lies the point with Hungary in 2009. It seems like everyone (state, government, citizens) have freedoms and rights, but nobody is taking up the responsibilities.
Mystery shopper;
Do not kid yourself…I would give my left nut if I had one, to reverse Trianon.
I’m all for immigration; but, I do believe that when a person emigrates to a new country, that they respect and accept their culture as well. I’m not saying denounce where you can from…far from it! Embrase it, practise it, fill your boots with it, fine by me. But you then show the same passion to the country that you are now living in, your new home. Multiculturism does not work, no matter what kind of spin you put on it.
Gypsy hating..No I am happy to admit I do not hate anybody, I intensely dislike some people; but not hate. That being said, you have to admit that there are issues with this group of people. Not all of them, just enough to make people…passionate on certian topics.
I am pro Hungary at all costs, I want it’s true history rewriten…mostly I want the proud people back. I am also a Catholic, I do not agree with everything that religion stands for…but I am and always will be one.
As for your different perseptive in what you see,although some of the comments here on both sides can be colourful…try to understand their point of view. Here you have a bunch of people who for some reason think it is quite natural to knock, belittle, down right lie about a nation. A nation for the most part did nothing to deserve it and historically are a tolerent society. But if all you hear is slander…Christ give me time and I might break out into a rant as well.
@justasking
well said my dear friend, just be aware of the manipulative leeches on this forum who will try and be buddy and stab you in the back, seeems like you are already fine tunning your perception here, but dont drop your guard against these snakes.God Bless
cont…
How much are people expected to take lieing down?
Look I don’t know where to are from; but, let me tell you about another country that I a very familliar with and may be heading in the same direction as Hungary. In Canada, the society at the best of time is politically correct and pretty tolerant…to the point where their own identity is in danger. Sure everybody wants to live in Canada, but nobody wants to be Canadian. I use Canada as an example for I see that with the people on this web site that live in Hungary. It’s okay to live their but God forbid if you try to understand them and see their point of view.
I happen to love being Hungarian and Canadian for yes I am both. I will fight for each country tooth and nail, and I am teaching my children to do and feel the same. I happen to love the fact the I eat grease on bread and your family sticks their nose into everything you say and do just because they are family.
No I am not a headonfire kinda gal, but will be and has been when provoked.
Well, well, well, here we have:
- a Canadian,
- an Australian,
- a Finn(?),
- and a Swede discussing Hungary.
And some people claim ‘multiculturalism’ does not work…
Viking;
Have you ever considered…suicide? I think you should, and I’m not joking !!!
Good night all!!!!!!
Have you ever considered…suicide? I think you should, and I’m not joking !!!
justasking at September 4, 2009 4:09 AM
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Who is now getting personal?
Too much Unicum again?
@ Viking
Troll !
@ justasking
Judged from the various geographic references, I think I am one of the few, who are actually living in Hungary and even outside of Budapest/Pest megye. So my point of view is quite different to Budapest (expat) circles.
As for your different perseptive in what you see,although some of the comments here on both sides can be colourful…try to understand their point of view. Here you have a bunch of people who for some reason think it is quite natural to knock, belittle, down right lie about a nation.
County council informed at the end of the previous school season that money will be tight this year. Hence all the money for school trips or sending the bright students to national competitions is axed. This didn’t stop them firing the schools headmaster (who was acting teacher) and replaced him with local politician. School lost one teacher and vice headmaster has to do the work of the new headmaster as he doesn’t know anything how to run a school nor have interest for it. Council also created a salarized job of a webmaster to take care of online presence (website, iwiw, myvip, wikipedia etc). As September 2009, the person has been receiving salary since May 2009 and have done zero work. The actual job is now being done by teachers and students. One teacher started maternity leave and school had the search for replacement teacher. Vice headmaster had three candidates lined up for the final selection. But on morning when the selection was to be done…
…council member called and told them that who to hire. Instead of getting university graduated teacher with a few years of teaching experience (the three candidates), the school got college graduated teacher with no work experience as teacher in the past ten years (the council pick). It was not always like this, but around early 2006 certain Fidesz affiliated councils started systematic program to get schools under their control. If the schools headmasters were not pro-Fidesz, you could start the count for your exit one way or another.
Somehow I feel that this is not exactly the right road to modern, open, democratic Hungary. What Fidesz is offering is basically MSZMP Lite, with Orbán instead of Kádár. Everyone in line, everyone behind the partyline, no dissidents tolerated, be they real or imaginary ones.
@Viking
En finne igen!
Oh jeez, this is so sick you won’t even want to believe it: Thatcher apparently did her level worst to prevent the unification of Germany, pressured Gorbachev to prevent it while asking him to ignore official statements asking for the opposite: “We do not want a united Germany,” she said [to Gorbachev] “This would lead to a change to postwar borders, and we cannot allow that…” http://tr.im/z2Dn „Großbritannien und Westeuropa sind an einer Vereinigung Deutschlands nicht interessiert. Das mag in offiziellen Verlautbarungen der Nato anders klingen, aber das dürfen Sie ignorieren. Wir wollen die deutsche Wiedervereinigung nicht. Es würde zu Veränderungen der Nachkriegsgrenzen in Europa führen, die Stabilität der gesamten internationalen Situation unterminieren und zur Bedrohung unserer Sicherheit führen.“ http://www.welt.de/kultur/article4533632/Wie-Thatcher-die-Einheit-verhindern-wollte.html You gotta love the British… If you were German Chancellor, how would you thank them?
@ Mystery shopper;
I agree with you for I have heard this before, show us your loyalty and you get work. As for your take on Fidesz, your right. That’s why I hope if they do get in they have a minority government with Jobbik as a strog opposition. Of course I would prefer to see Jobbik in power, but I will take what I can get.