Hungary’s delegation at the United Nations General Assembly was among the majority of representatives of European Union member states, plus Canada, US and Israel to stage a walkout during the speech of Mahmud Ahmadinejad, Iran’s president.
Delegates walked out when Ahmadinejad started speaking about Israel’s “inhuman policies”, Gabor Brodi, Hungary’s UN ambassador, told MTI.
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Pathetic cowards all towing the zionist line,ready for a new war? Its coming thanks to these gutless idiots.
I see someone is trying very hard to win ‘troll of the year’, once again.
I think Ahmadinejad is an absolute asshole, talking about freedom and repression whilst killing his own people back at home. But, there is allot of truth in what he said!
@ Ricsi;
I saw an interview with this guy a year or so ago, wing nut though his is, he is anything but stupid. Although I do not agree with his delivery,he brought up some valid points in this interview.
Besides, anybody who stays immediately gets labelled an anti-Semite.
CestMoi–Looks like you will win yet again ! congrats
Unfortunately the western media paint a horrible picture about Iran, and as you say Justasking and Ricsi as soon as someone utters the Truth about Israels crimes against Humanity they’re labelled anti semetic, gee they have utilised NLP well.
In Hungarian but shoots straight from the Hip
http://www.echotv.hu/20090831__vilagpanorama__9/11_rejtelye.html
@Law: That video is unadulterated, százszázalékos, valódi, sima bollocks. Bo-ll-o-ck-s.
Just another collection of )/11 conspiracy theories.
And that guy needs to learn to speak to the camera and not gulp like a bullfrog every time he finished one of his over crafted, leaden sentences.
If there were a cogent argument ion their anywhere I’d attempt to unpick it, but it’s just an incoherent rant, so… Bo-ll-o-ck-s.
@Vandorloo
As he said.. you are the minority that believes the B/shit! Again you are full of shit!
@Vandorloo
Why are you resisting? Really why? I’m not sure what possesses you to continue down into emptiness. Are you just scared to face the Truth because of your Pride? Shed the cocoon and fly away like a beautiful butterfly, Love is the answer Vandorloo not Pride.
Interesting how on EchoTV this is rated the second most viewed film after Vona Gabors interview, doesn’t that highlight the obvious, or are you still in denial? why do you remain to be so ignorant? It’s not Bliss I guarantee you, come step into the light away from the shadows my son. The grass is greener on the other side
See how the trifecta builds; Richy, Law (formerly HP) and newest addition to the axis powers, justasking…hmmm, I wonder where Stan/160/Bela/all the other names, sits on this important topic, where exactly did he go?
@ Law;
Be kind to Vandorlo. He’s deflecting, he does this by knocking down the reporters delivery! (Although, he was gulping)
Give him time to digest it all Law, this stuff is all so new and hard to get ones head around. Patients dear friend, he is just realizing that pride goethe before the fall.
Tiiiimmmmbbbbeeeerrrrr!!!!!!!
‘Pathetic cowards all towing the zionist line’… This is only one of the many comments in this style on this site… But what stroke me is that the senders are not more than thirty, making a sort of ‘rotation’. Anyway they are decent people, making a living like any of us. Anyway I pity them.. it has to be such a boring occupation, just obeying orders and writing messages like these every day…
Szamla
My little zionist agitator,you tried to entice me out,well here I am!
You are wrong on all accounts,but prey do tell me,what did I say that was not true ? Or rather what did this Iranian guy say that was not true?.To clear the air I am neither interested in him or his country,but I do trust his words far more than any Israeli,Why? Because he speaks the truth,it is obvious,otherwise why do your type try to attack,ridicule or censor him? PS Your virus attacks are still been deflected,but they give US great leads!
@Ricsi, do you also believe he was telling the truth when he was asked about gays in Iran and he replied we dont have homosexuals in Iran? Just curious.
@ david;
Well if you kill all of the homosexuals, I guess there would be none left? Besides, Iran has their hands full with the new porn industry popping up. I have to say, doing porn in Iran…now those people have balls.
But may not have them for too long.
Nark, Nark, Nark!!! Funny!!
Who is a bigger criminal? ahmadinijab or Obama? Obama has stolen an estimated 25 trillion (TRILLION US $’s) from the american taxpayor. How much has Amadinijab stolen? Make no mistake. Obama is a militant Stalinist. He will wage war against Iran on behalf of his crony banksters in new york. War is coming and it will be initiated by obama. Obama an arab muslim? He is not hired one christian or muslim in his cabinet. christians and muslims have been banned from his government. Why?
@ deng feng;
Why do you think Obama will wage a war on Iran? For their oil? Can the US afford another war?
what did this Iranian guy say that was not true?
…
Because he speaks the truth
Ricsi at September 25, 2009 6:31 PM
—
Iranian Elections is one big question mark, but I assume you get a hard on when you saw the ‘Iranian Garda’ in black uniforms on motorcycles ‘keeping order’?
He seem to have a problem with remembering all sites they have for working with the nuclear industry, which all countries must declare. But Alzheimer’s disease is not illegal, right?
A friend of a friend is from Iran, he says that they (US) actually want Ahmadinijab to stay in power. They (US)are fearfull of the youth of Iran getting into power, for they are less predictable when it comes to their natural resources and not as “easily controlled” as buddy boy there.
Saying that while Ahmadinijab is more focused on the far right values, the more up and coming politicians of that country see Iran being more of a power house again because of their oil etc.
Who knows.
I did my master thesis on Iranian subject and Ahmadinejad is pretty interesting personality. But he has managed to get himself (& Iran) into corner. Not exactly a winning position in that sense.
Iran is indeed a very interesting country. An Iranian neuroscience student I knew in Debrecen told me that for the most part, Iranians would much prefer to gain wealth and stature in a way that didn’t isolate the country even further. He felt that the government probably were up to no good with their nuke programme, and that most people didn’t support that. He was a really smart guy. According to him, most Iranians are relatively moderate in their views, and modern in their outlook. (This was last year) I guess the recent election protests are testament to at least some truth in that statement. Interestingly enough, I was also reading an article lately talking about the growth of gender-reassignment surgery in Iran. I must admit, it sounded unlikely, but it was interesting nonetheless. Apparently it’s less of a ‘crime’ to change genders than it is to pursue other alternative lifestyles.
Gender rea-what? No. That is just the porn industry guys getting their balls but off. If you listen real carefully you can hear the screams.
The iranian guy was probably a Bahai? if so there pro west.
Mahmoud was interviewed by Larry King last night on TV. I’m sure somebody has posted that on u-tube. Larry looked like an idiot after buddy there was through with him.
Does anybody else notice how this guy is always smiling? What a happy sort.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EBgqgIWuoc&feature=player_embedded#t=612
What a Godly speech, This man is sharing the Truth.
I am sorry for the gentleman signing ‘ricsi’. I strongly apologise: I intended only to state that he was simply doing his daily job and I pitied him because this is a really dirty one. No more, nor less. Probably the funds for this kind of service are not so high anymore (15-30 signatures, interventions in the same style, low circulation electronic medium), and the personnel has not the best CV anymore. I wanted only to pity these people – times are changing, and they do not realise that this kind of job is not done anywhere at the level of the 1950s-1960s (the badly mimicked far-right vocabulary cannot be taken seriously by anyone who passed the grammar school tests). Maybe in Serbia, in Romania, in Belarus would be place for this kind of people…
So, once again, I deeply apologise. This gentleman ‘ricsi’ wrote something about a group (‘us’) who was given ‘great gains’ about me. He and his group (if the group does really exist) are wrong. I do not intend to open this site anymore. If anyone imagines that the English language expats in Budapest takes it seriously in these kind of badly written deliriums, he is wrong. And, as everyone can see every day, ridiculous.
@szamla
your a fucking idiot!!
Very quick reaction! Congratulations, sir! Oh, you are another one… Sorry… I tresspassed. I have not realised that the night shift arrived. Anyway, the message remains the same. I do not intend to open this site anymore. [By the way, 'Attila' is spelled with one 't'.]
@ Szamla;
Picture it, your sitting with your friends at a trendy little cafe, hardly able to contain your self with the story you have to tell them.
Finally, they look at you expectently and you enjoy the attention. Starting to marinate in your own testostorone, you begin you story.
The story how you were on a certian political website and could not believe some of the comments from those “stupid” Hungarians were writing about, you relay some of the comments to them.
At this point, your friends have these silly little grins on their little faces, hanging on to your every word. Heads bobbing up and down oh, so, slightly whilst leaning forward in their chairs.
You continue with your story…finally getting to your favourite part, the part where you had to actually “correct” these barbarians on how to spell “Attilla” “Can you image?” you say while chuckling out loud.
Suddenly the smiles are gone, the head bobbing stops. Only to be replaced with a gap mouth and widened eyes. You go on about how you are never going to grace that site with your presence again…they quickly agree with you, knowing what would be awaiting you.
@justasking: “(US) actually want Ahmadinijab…” Why should we care though? What are our interests in the region? I mean, we do have some common heritage and we’ve been victimized by the same enemies but as long as we are an occupied, rump, banana republic there isn’t much we can actually do, is there? this whole shameful charade at the UN just reaffirms that ‘our’ politicians represent us like shepherds represent sheep. I am not surprised Morvai became what she is at ‘our’ UN mission. A month with those people would turn Vádorló and Viking into Gárdistas, I guarantee..
@anon600ad: “the government probably were up to no good with their nuke programme, and that most people didn’t support that” How do you feel about the Israeli government’s nuke program, anon baby? Are they up to any good? Do the ‘people’ support it? Do you? “I guess the recent election protests are testament to at least some truth in that statement…” The recent ‘protests’ are all part of the current “Operation Ajax” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Mosaddeq which is all part of the current Eureka (Tehran Conference) Plus ça change, plus c’est pareil, yes?
@anon600ad, cont.: “gender-reassignment surgery in Iran..” How about organ transplants? (Or isn’t that as important as trannies?) Iran has one of the best transplantation programs anywhere and excellent health care (beats the hell out of the US) in general. Why? Because they have a government of and for the people instead of what we have (corporate fascism).
)) grab you? Now that is what I would call ‘bollocks’ if I would use that word. (I’d say: ‘hikers’ my ass…) Gringos have no shame.. (és tényleg az egész világot hülyének nézik)
#David@Ricsi: “do you also believe he was telling the truth when he was asked about gays in Iran and he replied we dont have homosexuals in Iran?” You lie. But even if you wouldn’t lie, how important an issue is this, really?
@pennyapoundonthehoof: echotv.hu/20090831__vilagpanorama__9/11_rejtelye.html “százszázalékos, valódi, sima bollocks…” He got the States down pat though, didn’t he? As for ‘bollocks’ how does this http://bit.ly/jCmTH ( ‘Mom hopes Ahmadinejad has good news on held hikers’
Probably very few people writing here are using their real name. In my case, the situation is not the same. If anyone believed all things written above (in a lot of comment spread around this site, in fact) about “filthy foreigners, zionists”, etc. and “proud, patriotic Hungarians”, he/she would consider that Hungary still lives under Arrow-Cross regime, and Budapest is something like Munich in 1933.
But nobody reading this site should forget the following elements: 1) Its target public is mainly the expat public in Hungary, in order to depict a certain image; 2) Even if the image is not credible enough, a doubt is supposed to remain for the expat (“Well, maybe Budapest is different than I am thinking…”).
I am ashamed that things like these are issued in my country and in my city, even if they are on electronic format. I am sure that people writing here (those spreading insults and hate messages, I mean) are cowards, as usually all of their kind use to be. Anyway, I am not afraid of any of them. I am a Hungarian from an old Hungarian family. If anyone wants to visit me, my address is 1113 Budapest, Bocskay ut. 90, I em, 5. I am waiting for you, cowards!
Kedves Országh László,
This was a courageous and principled gesture on your part. I too use my real name, all the while taking care to not say anything that degrades another person, whatever the differences of opinion, or which reflects badly on Hungary before the wolrd stage. This is an English site, read by people all over the world, something we should never lose sight of. People may well be forming their opinions of us based upon nothing more than what they read here. We are not well known before the world, nor very accomplished in terms of economic presence and might before the world stage. Everyone who posts here is helping to build an impression of some kind or another.
I therefore follow certain self imposed rules of conduct. If someone posts a viewpoint that I disagree with, then I post an opposite view, but which is not personally addressed to that individual. Addressing your disagreement to the person opens up a flame war, an insult match and makes the matter worse, almost all the time. Name calling and insults will invariably do that. I often time my entrance into a discussion strategically, after a long slugfest that has reached a tiresome impasse. My posts are often intended to get the discussion onto a new track and to get the train of thought changed a little. I don’t always succeed, but I sure don’t like to see people insult each other. It detracts from one’s message and degrades our community.
(cont)
Országh László? Wow! Any relation to the Great Soviet US/English Expert http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orsz%C3%A1gh_L%C3%A1szl%C3%B3 or Peter Orszag http://bit.ly/XgCEb ? “I am a Hungarian from an old Hungarian family” How old is it? “I am waiting for you, cowards!” No shit. And, what will you do when I get there? Break out the old ÁVO torture equipment?
(cont)
The other thing I do is that if someone does address their disagreement to me, or questions my comments critically, I believe that that individual is deserving of a courteous response. I will constructively engage anyone who addresses me in a civil tone, whatever our differences of views. The best compliments I get around here are from people who’ve said that they like and respect me, even if they disagree with me.
Lastly, I am not a propagandist or proseletyser. What someone else wants to think and believe, is purely their own business. Throughout our history, we’ve known too much coercion to believe in a certain religion, or certain political ideology. Belief was ordered and dissent silenced, especially under communism. I don’t wish to continue this mindset.
Interesting that you mention Germany 1933. I tend to think of our present phase as something more like the Weimar Republic. Like the Germans of the 1920′s, we’re coming out of autocracy, followed by a parliamentary phase that is not solving the economic issues of the nation, and hence the upsurge of anger and extremism that you notice. Lacking Germany’s industrial and technical might, along with it’s commercial acumen, we have all the weaknesses of the Weimar Germans, but almost none of their strenghts. I think we sense our impotence, and it fuels rage and intolerance. A “Herrenvolk” we are not.
We’re products of our history, and it’ll take time I’m afraid for things to change.
Laci
@laszlo: Thanks for your kind comments!
But don’t be afraid that foreigners living in Hungary (like me, part time)or expats react to these childish comments by beju, law, ricsi and many others. This is just for laughs!
We can distinguish jobbik or other reactionary propaganda from real information about this beautiful country and its (mostly) nice people.
And of course there are also intelligent people around here like vandorlo or viking to give you the hard facts.
I sometimes come here to enjoy some of those crazy discussions…
Anyway, most of the jobbik followers here don’t even live in Hungary, so what do they know…
Hi wolfi,
Vielen Dank!
My own personal feelings are made complex, by the fact that some of the posters you mention as examples of extreme opinion, actually sound like my dear 83 year old father. (Beju especially says the same things in English, almost word for word, that my father says in Hungarian.) Dad was and is a smart, accomplished reasonable man. Some things do get him going, and some of the frustration I’ve heard in him and other Hungarians, I do see expressed here as well.
Many of us are simmering inside and are looking for fall guys, which is understandable in light of the collective failure. After 1989, there was for us no “Wirtshaftwunder”. I wish that we could have gotten busy, really busy over the last 20 years making things and exporting them, all the while building up our wealth. Maybe in the future that will happen. I hope so.
What we need in order to mollify all this resentment is a growing economic prosperity where we are in some control. That is what feeling empowered is really about. Unfortunately our past history has not been as an industrial and merchantile power. As a result, we are struggling to find our place in the modern world.
Kedves Pávaszem,
An interesting observation. I thought the name rang a bell. An Országh László was editor of the stupendous, 4 volume Hungarian English dictionary published by the Akadémiai Kiadó, originally published in 1963. That was a long time ago, and if it’s the same man, he would be quite up there in years.
@ Laci;
Shit, I thought that you would be in your 80′s! I mean no insult.
Z
Dear Zsuzsa,
We’ll all feel like 80 eventually if we keep posting here long enough! One year on this website ages one by about 5 years!
Love,
László
I saw Larry King live last night including the Interview.
M. Ahmadinejad appeared to me as the devil incarnate. Did not answer direct questions and went off into tangents.
Larry King asked him If he denied the Holocaust – that would be a yes or no answer. He refused and started talking about the problems in Palastine.
I agree those problems should be discussed and I would like to have heard the discussion.
He basically avoided giving straight answers to every question and talked in circles. This included the topic of the young girl being shot ( he questioned why the shooter was not photographed. Remember the Kennedy assassination? Gee, I wonder why that shooter was not photographed, only the victim )
Then he did not know the details of the American tourists lost and held in Iran.
Then he talked about the ballot counting in Iran that defied logic.
I am sure some of you admire him – one of those things I cannot fathom but I don’t have to. We all have the right to our opinions.
Szevasz Laci;
One year! Sam hell, are you a sucker for punishment! So, your not a priest and you Dad is 2 years younger then mine. So, why?
Yours;
Z
Hello Z,
Long term involvement with this website is, like the priesthood or being a nun, a vocation. Maybe it’s the Catholic upbringing, but I suspect a number of us are fond of punishment.
@Olga: “I saw Larry King live last night including the Interview” I saw it too just now on YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DXAe3cXAAA&feature=related Ahmadinejad ran circles around König. His speech at the UN (‘The production of fake currencies, injecting of the equivalent of tens of thousands of unreal dollars into the world’s economy and creating serious budget shortages, as well as the transfer of inflation and other economic woes to other countries and the transportation of the wealth of others to the economies of certain special governments is no longer effective…’ http://www.president.ir/en/?ArtID=17937 ) too was pure genius. If we have any interest at all in these matters it is certainly not with Israel-US. And morally, wow, Israel-US doesn’t have a leg to stand on. “M. Ahmadinejad appeared to me as the devil incarnate” Why, what did he do? Did he drop cluster bombs on schools? Or white phosphorous bombs apartment buildings? Does he trade in body parts or turn 90 plus year old folks’ final days into living hell, driving them into suicide? “Larry King asked him If he denied the Holocaust”Why? Regardless of this sickening and outrageous subject’s merits, what do Ahmadinejad, Iran or the Persians have to do with it? What should they pay billions in ‘compensation’(read tax)for? And who isn’t sick of the Shoa business anyway?
@Olga, continued: “talked in circles. This included the topic of the young girl being shot” You just didn’t (or didn’t want to) understand what he said. He said the agents that shot the snuff movie http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asv7nFFbw54&feature=related followed the girl for 10 minutes before they killed her which is a script (murder committed on viral video to arouse sentiment against a target) that ran before in the 2002 coup attempt against Chávez. (In fact the whole Iran coup attempt looks like a re-run of the failed 2002 coup against Chávez.) And the girl they murdered wasn’t even a demonstrator. She was a student on her way home from a music lesson. Quite frankly, I wish we had a politician like Ahmadinejad (or Erdogan http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=107300§ionid=351020104
@Olga, continued: “Then he did not know the details of the American tourists lost and held in Iran” Tourists? You mean tourists like these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Republican_Palace,_Baghdad.jpg ? In Iraq which is a war zone? And, they ‘accidentally strayed into Iran?’ Is this a joke? Do you actually believe that? Seriously. This is a genuine question: I am curious.
@Pavaszem
Yes, I do believe they were tourists. However, that was not the point. Whoever they were, he denied knowing about the situation.
About the Holocaust – why not say : “Yes, it happened, I agree. Now, let’s discuss present day problems like Israel and Palestine”
I suppose you believed him about reporting the nuclear information as well – just a poor misunderstood soul . Then s, the ballots – no cheating there either. Iranians are just good in math so they could count faster than computers.
About the young girl – you can believe in conspiracy theories – I don’t. I don’t want to be sarcastic to you because you were not to me, but do you support “the Birthers” in the USA? – people can always interpret things the way they want and no evidence will make them change their minds.
I am not even mentioning his insistence on “judicial processes in Iran” – what judicial processes? As if…
Mahmud Ahmadinejad is the slimiest creepiest person I have seen interviewed in a long time although Gaddafi is a close second.
I watched both of them on Larry King Live. Gaddafi did not talk in circles. I don’t have to like what he said but he answered questions . When he said he would like Israel and Palestine become one state, I thought he was insane – I still think he is, but when he said the future generation will be different, I thought maybe he was right – don’t really believe it will happen but stranger things have occurred in history
I always had problems with Israel and Palestine because personally, I see both their points. So I guess I am pro-Israel and pro-Palestine.
Pro-Mahmud Ahmadinejad I ain’t
@Olga
You have been exposed to a different paradigm of thinking, and that’s how majority of westerners see reality. Hopefully one day you will get the ohh! Aha! experience. Seems like the mass media has blurred your vision and affected your emotions. This is expected when isolated from true media sources. I don’t mean to be condescending, but give it a crack
The Synagogue of Satan Andrew Carrington Hitchcock (Author)
@ Olga;
Actually, what Mamoud said about the election counting is the same way we do it in Canada. Everybody marks a “X” with a pencil to whom they want elected. At the end of the night it gets physicaly counted by the “election officers” who of course pass on the tallied votes to the “supervisor” of that one voting “station” and they inturn pass on the results. As you know, in Canada, voting ends at 8:oopm and by 10:00pm the results are announced, it does go that quick. As he explaind, there we approx 460,000 booths were scattered around Iran and with each “election officer” they had close to 1000 votes to count each…it goes pretty fast. It’s the Americans that complicate their voting system by making it electronic and even then they seem to have problems.
@ Law;
Have not talked with you in a bit? Whats up? All okay?
@ Law
You are correct that I have been exposed to a different paradigm of thinking. However, I was not really discussing the Arab world in general although I am sure you and I would not exactly nod our heads at each other’s opinions.
So my “thinking” in that posting was limited to how I perceived him as person, and the person I saw was appalling. You asked me if I believed the people being held were tourist” and I said I did. (I am sure you were rolling your eyes when you read that ) But to repeat myself – it was the lie that bothered me “I don’t know the details”
Then the conspiracy theory about the young girl – Iranians were protesting about her all over the world. Nice try about blaming phantom assassins.
So my turn to ask: When he repeatedly kept evading the question which required a Yes or No – (Do you believe the Holocaust happened?) – did you not want to scream: “Would you just answer the f…ing question so we can move on?” – I sure did.
I never heard of the book you mentioned but “googled it” – not likely I am ever going to read that. I stay away from anything that is even vaguely religious. I happen to believe that Religion and God are mutually exclusive – (I believe in God) and that religious zealots, Christians, Jews, Muslim etc are the root of all the world’s problems.
@justasking
When the elections were held in June, I followed the criticism regarding the mathematical problems with the ballot counting I wish I remembered the details but I don’t.
I do remember some of the CBC newscasts I watched. It seems that after the election, there were instances of greater than 100 percent turnout in some Iranian provinces. Then ,approx. 90 percent turnout in other provinces. (The research was based official Iranian data) – According to past election patterns, Ahmadinejad was unpopular in rural areas in the past so the fact that he got the majority votes is contrary to past trends. The reality that I perceived him to be a discreditable, dishonest person during the last few days’ of hearing him talk, does not help me believe the ballots were counted properly.
BTW, if the Conservatives “sweep Ontario” in a Federal election, I would want a recount. Ditto for a Liberal sweep in Alberta
Sorry to disappoint you about Santa and the Easter Bunny -
@ Olga;
The question was not if Mahmoud was popular or not, the question was whether the ballots could be counted as quickly as they were. The election that you are refering to was never about if the “ballots” had been tampered with nor if they were counted correctly.
Law did not give you a “religious” link per say, he was trying help you understand when you hear on this site the term “Zionist”. He in fact was trying to help you/educate you not harm or insult or convert you.
As for the question of the Holocaust, I find that your attitude of a “simple” yes or no question to be quite arrogant…for you are of the opinion that everybody thinks the way you do and they do not. Some people believe that the Holcaust happened and some people don mot. If you have seen other interbiews with this Mahmoud, you would understand that his position is. If the Holocaust happened in Europe, by the German people, then why was’ny half of Germany not given to the Jewish people, why Palestine who had absolutely NOTHING to do with it. So, ask yourself, does the guy have a valid point? I am not saying that the Holocaust did not happen, I just saying that there is stuff that happens in this world that defies logic and it is EVERYBODIES God given right to question things.
By the way, Alberta will NEVER vote Liberal because of the way Trudeau screwed us over; but, Ontario HAS voted majority Conservative in the past and could go that way again.
@Olga
One of my observations with religion is that it’s not the original teaching’s from the messengers and prophets which are threatening but the way the power elite infiltrate the certain religious groups and discredit the teachings so the masses will become distasteful about the whole religious topic, this is the classic attempt to divide and rule which is their major duality tactic over us, they don’t want the original teachings of oneness to spread. As Justasking mentioned this is not a religious book I recommended, a Jewish friend suggested I read it, it was an eye opener.
@Justasking all ok thanks, I have friends visiting this weekend for a week from overseas so will be fun entertaining them.
It’s amazing to see how much things have changed on this site. I stopped reading for a while, partly because it just filled up with posts that just didn’t interest me, but also because I was too busy writing my thesis. It’s been great to see some new(er)personalities like justasking, Orszagh lazlo and Farkas Lazlo (sorry if I misspelled), who show that it is possible to debate and disagree without degenerating into a slanging match.
In answer to some of the other questions that were posed to me…I have really been unhappy with the way Israel has acted. Of all groups, they should know better. Their belligerence will only serve to further enrage their neighbours and deepen the hatred. I do believe in a Palestinian state, but also think that BOTH sides are going to have to put down their weapons.
Should Israel have nukes? No. I don’t see how it helps anyone. Should Iran have nukes? well…I see the hypocrisy of nuclear armed countries telling them that they shouldn’t, BUT no, Iran shouldn’t have nukes. I don’t see how it helps anyone.
Finally, as justasking has shown, it is possible to debate without manipulation. I don’t like to be ‘positioned’ by rhetoric, and don’t like it when my opinions are assumed to be something they aren’t. It’s better to just ask a genuine question…then I’ll usually respond with a genuine answer. As the saying goes, however, “Ask a stupid question…”
Hello anon600ad,
Thanks!
I may seem like a newer contributor to some, but many here will recall that I have been involved with this site for some time. I did take a 6 month breather earlier this year. I feel it is a healthy thing to do, to quit here for a while and recharge you mental batteries. What many of us do around here, me included, is a great outpouring; after a while, a rest is called for. I’m happy to be back and able to take the care and attention which my thoughts and my readers are entitled to.
Farkas Laszlo…I couldn’t agree with you more. I have found myself getting too personally invested in some of the arguments here, while kind of transferring my general life-stress into my posts. That’s a good sign it’s time to take a deep breath and go ‘smell the roses’ for a while. I hadn’t realised you had been here a while, sorry for the misunderstanding. I mostly hung around the Pestiside site until late last year when my interest just kind of nose-dived. I must admit that I’m not so knowledgeable about the intricacies of Hungarian politics in particular, but topics of social justice, health, development, education and history are things that I like to comment on. As I’ve said to justasking, I really would like to learn more about the Hungarian perspective of all of these things, but it gets a bit tiresome when you have to endure long tirades, insults and assumptions just because you’re not a ’tiszta Magyar’. I know the history books of my own country are hardly accurate, and I’d love to find something closer to the ‘truth’, but you have to start somewhere.
Incidentally, justasking, I have contacted my friend in the US about the book you mentioned and he is going to try and get a hold of it for me.
@anon600ad;
Wow! What a nice thing to say/do. I have to admit, I’m abit addicted to this site. I too like the fact that on the most part people can banter back and for in a “most of the time” respectful manner. Not that I would ever admit this in public (lets keep this to our selves) some times my left leaning counter-parts will make comments that does cause me pause. Not for a long time, but pause non the less…then I snap out of it, give my head a shake and get back to normal.
Now I knoew how you feel about “stupid” questions, but I guess there are just somethings one has to deal with-so here goes. What does “anon600ad stand for? I understand Laci username and mine (pretty straight forward) as well Law, why “Law”? Are you a cop, judge, prison guard or prisoner?
Hello anon600ad,
The “tiszta Magyar” phenomenon is a sign and symptom. I feel it arises from the insecurity that most any people would feel when there is growing economic stagnation, lack of opportunity, combined with a feeling that you are swamped or overwhelmed by influneces, both foreign and domestic, that are outside of your control. Any society, if suffiently stressed, can manifest this. You and I have mentioned the Weimar period, and we well know that the general malaise was critiqued by the NSDAP using “true Germanness” as it’s compass. In the US, concern over illegal immigration from Mexico is fueled by stagnating wages for the Anglo majority, as well as concerns about a loss of identity.
Multiculturalism and assimilation of foreign elements require a strong ecomony, combined with a sense of optimism in the majority group to go smoothly.
@justasking
Well neither, I’m just a nice guy
@ Law
I totally agree with your analysis about Religion. About the book:
I spent 10 minutes looking at various websites after a google search. This is the website that I came across that had a religious tone: http://www.antichristconspiracy.com/synagogue_of_satan.htm
Then, reading further it appeared to be hate literature – when the word “conspiracy” kept popping up and “Jewish Conspiracy” was frequently used, I just thought that it’s really not how I want to spend my time “learning” – My choice.
I believe some conspiracy theories , including the one in this book, are extremely dangerous, because they encourage hatred toward a group and an excuse for potential violence. BTW, I really enjoy reading your postings despite my not always agreeing with you.
I am not really in a position to judge this website because I am so new – First impressions are frequently wrong. My first impression is that most people appear to be very right wing. The second impression is that most people tend to be polite even when they disagree. I may change my mind on both counts.
@ Law
Every evidence points to your being a “nice guy” -
I thought LAW was your last name – go figure.
@ justasking
Re your comment: “As for the question of the Holocaust, I find that your attitude of a “simple” yes or no question to be quite arrogant…for you are of the opinion that everybody thinks the way you do and they do not.” – Arrogant ? Not everyone thinks the way I do? Huh? -
I expected someone who voluntarily agreed to be interviewed to answer a simple question. If that’s your definition of “arrogant” then there is nothing more I can say on the subject.
@ Olga;
That is my point, to YOU the Holocaust is a simple yes or no answer to others, it’s not that simple. What MA of Iran was trying to point out was that there was something more to the Holocaust than just genocide of a certian type of people/persons, he was trying to get the viewer to ask the same questions. Why did Gernamy not have to give up land, why take it from Palestine?
These are the type of questions that “certian” peole do not want asked. Believe this or not that is up to you.
@ Law;
Being a nice guy…thats how you got to the username Law. Why not just call yourself “niceguy” or “jopofa”.
@Olga
Great to see you are understanding and can see some snippets of truth in this blend of comments, I must admit it’s very thought provoking at times. I was liberal thinker before arriving to Hungary and took me approximately two years to see politics in a different light, just from meeting and socializing with a variety of different people from all walks of life and seeing how the influences of the Liberal views were seriously breaking down peoples ethics and morals. The power of the mainstream media was the most appalling to swallow, many journalists I met were disgusted with the publications and media how the editors were not interested in printing the Truth but had an agenda based on Power and control and not truth. I worked for newspaper Murdoch News limited and experienced some shocking stories of Journalists being intimidated and sacked over trying to print the fact’s and if they didn’t tow the line they were forced out of work. Media prostitutes is one label they were called and in our local pub during a few beers and chardonnays the most interesting conversations would flare up on all the unprinted truth. But what got me was people where so busy with there mundane shallow lives that they were programmed to not care and just call everything that was not in mainstream media a conspiracy junkie! Cont:
Now this was my first hand experience” Let’s not talk about that how about the football who do you think will win? Or what about the horses, Want to place a bet I got a great tip?”
So once I came to Hungary I was surprised at how many people were protesting about a politician that lied, at first I though how trivial, back home people wouldn’t even flinch, people have been programmed to accept politicians in parliament to Lie. After a short time of analyzing the whole scene I started to say hang on a minute these people protesting have a collective truth to what they a representing and I started my path to changing the paradigm of thinking and the more I searched the more my higher self opened up and made me see a new reality that we can make this world a better place! and we can start with the basic virtues and ethics which many Hungarians still stand by, people in Hungary will say “come demonstrate” without thinking it’s a conspiracy, along the way they might discuss the football or some small talk but their main focus is they have there hearts open to the truth, and this is why I love to be Hungarian, we have survived Hundreds and maybe even thousands of years in the Heart of Europe and we still can see the Truth in life.
And this is why the EU and Liberals are trying to protect the lies with legislation.
@ asking
I don’t normally shy away from answering people. When I read your last posting’s sentence that started with : “What MA of Iran was trying to point out was etc etc ” ,I realised it’s a waste of time for us to discuss issues. Not just my time wasted but yours as well.
We both watched the same interview – how you interpreted what “he was trying to point” out is so bizarre to me that I cannot comprehend your way of thinking.
Having said that, you may be correct, I may be wrong. Whatever… For me, it’s not fun or interesting to beat a dead horse. It’s not like either one of us will ever see each other’s point of view so it’s an exercise in futility.
I am beginning to understand your support of JOBBIK – not related to the interview of course. Related to my view of the world vs. yours
@ Olag;
I am not asking or trying to sway you in anyway, like you say we have different views/beliefs. The point that I am trying to get accross is, we in NorthAmerica are very limited in our exposure to “both” sides. We tend not to question very much and take at face value what we are told.
On this site, you are going to hear/be told things that in your opinion could not be possible, I just saying that here you will get more accurate info then the Canadian media will ever present.
@Justaking
Have a great weekend, also week! I will be entertaining friends this week so wont have much time to comment, Hugs jopofa”
@ Law
Oh No! – moving to Hungary turned you from a Liberal to someone who would say “And this is why the EU and Liberals are trying to protect the lies with legislation. ” ?? -
I consider myself a Liberal with a Capital “L” – does not mean that I don’t often disagree with Liberal policies and support some Conservative ideas. Whatever makes sense to me on a particular issue.
Back to the video link you posted. What do you think of people who make comments like the ones posted underneath the video? Are they the same ones who put up some website to vote if Obama should be killed? Having never met “one of those” people in person, I guess I should just be thankful.
Canada is the right place for me – often the media is “politically correct” ad nauseam. Better
than listening to Glenn Beck or calling the Hungarian gypsies “garbage” – I actually heard that in BP
@ Olga
I’m a Truth seeker! I give you a little advise “be careful what you wish for” don’t box yourself into being neither this or that, this is the trap the establishment want majority to behave, be free and control your emotions, otherwise your energy will be misqualified.
Yes Liberals do say some Truths also at times! Just to try and convince you that your are not being fooled. Another interesting point is it better to remain being fooled? or accept that you have been mislead and your beyond ignorance. Remember ignorance is bliss for the establishment. Wow! look the emperor has no clothes on. Love jopofa”
Me go bed! seeya
This is what Zion is ….
Our international rights will then wipe out national rights, in the proper sense of right, and will rule the nations precisely as the civil law of States rules the relations of their subjects among themselves.
The administrators, whom we shall choose from among the public, with strict regard to their capacities for servile obedience, will not be persons trained in the arts of government, and will therefore easily become pawns in our game in the hands of men of learning and genius who will be their advisers, specialists bred and reared from early childhood to rule the affairs of the whole world.
@Olga
If you want to be influenced by your emotions and worry about a few comments which distance and keep the core information blurred, instead of looking at the fact’s and not the illusion which is being mirrored in your mind. You have to work on yourself it goes hand in hand with discovering the truth. I personally have no idea what, who or what your real motives are, and if you will see the truth in your lifetime, that your choice or free will to decide. I have gone on my own personal path of seeking out the truth. I hear your frustration which is premature and understandable because of the state of affairs.
@ Law
Hope you had a good night’s sleep – looking forward to your answer to those questions I asked when i get back (leaving for a couple of days)
About seeking the truth:
“Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it. ” – Andre Gide
“Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it. ” – Andre Gide
A very nice quote for a political website. Gide was a communist party sympathiser from France.(A form of mental illness shared by many Frenchmen)
He went on a “pilgrimage” to the “promised land” for 1930′s leftists, the Soviet Union. What he saw there awoke him, and when he returned (and how lucky he was to be allowed to return!), he wrote his world famous work “Retour de l’U.R.S.S.” (1936) (Return from the USSR) and “Retouches â mon retour de l’U.R.S.S”(1937) (Afterthoughts on the USSR), which threw cold water into the faces of western communists and other political dreamers. What he learned from the experience was to not be such a dreamer himself, and to be wary of those who believe in absolutes and utopias.
I have not been able to find an online version and link of this book which I would share with you all, but it is an absolute must read. Déry Tibor has translated it into Hungarian.
@ Laci;
I found Andres’ books on Amazon, only 1 of the ones you mentioned on it and only in French. I went through some of his other books and ordered a couple. I can not believe that he wrote about some of the topics that he did, especially when he did.
Hello Zsuzsa!
I’m delighted that my references have prompted you to do further reading. Collegiality, which includes the sharing of information and sources, makes this a good message board.
The world’s number one website for antique and used books, is http://www.abebooks.com. Do a title search for “Return from the USSR”, and you will find 13 copies for sale, ranging in price from $24 to $57:
http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&tn=return+from+the+ussr
For “Afterthoughts on the USSR”, there are four copies currently for sale, ranging from $8 to $33:
http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?kn=afterthoughts+on+the+ussr&sts=t
Gide is by no means the first leftist to have gone to the Soviet Union, only to wake up and reconsider. One of the earliest such accounts, and one of my favorites, are the experiences of Emma Goldman. Goldman was an anarchist, who by Presidential order, was banished from the US along with a number of other leftists, packed aboard a ship and sent to Soviet Russia. (Under the laws passed during and after WW1, the US President had considerable authority to do such things) She made it out of there somehow (lucky woman!) and wrote her two famous books, available to read online:
My Disillusionment in Russia(1923)
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/goldman/disillusion/toc.html
My Further Disillusionment in Russia (1924)
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/goldman/further/further_toc.html
Hi Zsuzsa!
Glad to see that my last post encouraged you to look up some of these works!
I looked on http://www.abebooks.com, the world’s foremost website for trade in antique and out of print books. Go and do a title search for “Return from the USSR”; you will find 13 copies for sale, ranging in price from $23 to $58.
For “Afterthoughts on the USSR”, I see 4 copies presently for sale, ranging in price from $8 to $33.
Gide was not the first leftist to visit the “New Jerusalem”, only to realize that the dream was a nightmare and the heaven was actually a hell. Accounts like his are called “witness literature” by historians, and the Soviet experience spawned a vast library of such works. One of the first to “blow the whistle” on the whole thing was Emma Goldman, early 20th century American anarchist.
Goldman and a couple of hundred other leftists were packed aboard a ship and forcibly sent to Russia by presidential order. (The US president had broad authority to do such things then) She did not end up liking the place or the regime,and eventually made it out of there (lucky woman!). She tried to warn the world by writing two books which can be read online:
My Disillusionment in Russia(1923)
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/goldman/disillusion/toc.html
My Further Disillusionment in Russia(1924)
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/goldman/further/further_toc.html
A “page turner”; I couldn’t stop reading! Enjoy!
I apologize for the seemingly duplicate posts above, but the first time it wouldn’t post and didn’t appear for many hours, so I went ahead and did it again. At first I thought there were too many links inserted, which can slow the posting process, so I eliminated the abebooks links the second time.
@ Laci;
That was the site I was going to go to today. I have purchased some hard to find books their before. As a matter of fact they were- “Az Oz” and ” Disznotor” both by Szabo Magda, as well as ” A Gyertyak Csonkig Egnek” by Marai Sandor. All are in english and all were past library books that have not been touched and are in mint condition.
I’ll go back and order the other 2 as well. I have to be careful with books, you see to me, they are as addictive as heroin to a junkie.
Thanks for the site suggestion, already in my list of favourites.
Your friend
Z
@ Farka Laszlo
I read your response to Andre Gile – are you an academic? you write like one.
So here is my question to you: What are they putting into Hungary’s drinking water? Liberals seem to turn into extreme right wing Jobbik supporters.
Law (one of the people posting on this website) said he went from the Left to the Right after arriving in Hungary.
Krisztina Morvai a former Human Rights defender is now the poster-child for Jobbik – denied during an interview of being anti-Roma, anti-Jewish , and homophobic.
I am also reading all the venom directed at the “Roma” ” problem. You can substitute the word “Roma to different minority ethnic groups in other countries. Poverty,lack of education, a family history of abuse, substance abuse, growing up with poor parenting skils lead to crime. Not much news there.
While on the subject of homophobia – I know you must know, but for anyone who may be ordering Andre Gide books – he was a homosexual. May make a difference to some people
Your knowledge concerning him is impressive – I came across his name during a philosophy class many moons ago but all I remember about him is the quote. Your posting inspired me to find out more.
Hello Olga!
I’m not an academic, but I certainly could have become on had I wanted to. It’s not a bad life if you get a good post somewhere.
About how life in Hungary seems to cause a number of left to right conversions, especially in foreigners and expats. This is due to a number of things I believe. Western democracies have longer experience with multi-culturalism, democracy, market economy and a larger economic pie to redistribute. Hungary is a recent comer to such things. When the economic situation is more desperate, and there is less to go around, and you have a big crime problem, western liberal standards and solutions don’t have much popular support. In our situation, they are seen as alien impositions. As it is, we fear a loss of control and self identity; the very things we were emerging from prior to 1989.
As I’ve said before, we are in a “Weimar Republic” phase. You are seeing similiar stresses, and a rise of a right that is inward looking, and suspicious of foreign involvment and influence. Our regimes have always been too far left or too far right. Walking in the middle is the hardest thing of all.
Re: Gide. Yes he was gay. He had epiphanal moment when he asked some official what they do with gays in the USSR. The gleeful answer was that they are sent to slave labor camps. From this moment on he questioned the whole thing; assuming that such a regime will have a place in such camps for many other types of undesireable. On that, he was right.
@ Farkas Laszlo
Hey
Thanks for your quick response – I was just looking at Gide books and more info on him on the Internet.
I am 100% ok with gay rights including their right to marry – I have a huge problem with pedophiles regardless if gay or heterosexual. Yikes! I was not prepared for this. Need time to get over the shock. Maybe I should change my name from Olga to Polyanna.
What you describe as the “Weimar Republic” phase in Hungary is also taking place in a diffrent form against the Obama administration in the USA. – Listen to Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh or Anne Coulter and they would make great candidates for the Jobbik party if they had the good fortune to be born Hungarian(just kidding about the last sentence)
Especially Coulter who has some brains and cannot be considered an idiot like her male counter parts. In fact, she could be Krisztina’s long lost sister. Even share the education of a law degree . Of course, right wingnuts whatever their nationality are always more dangerous than your run of the mill hate monger.
I actually find Canada’s political correctness tiring sometimes and over the edge, it’s still better than the “Weimar Republic” mentality – IMHO
I think I will stop looking for Gide books for now – back to trying to find out the real difference between FIDESZ and MSZP – so far it’s not clear cut but I am sure I will figure it out soon. Any day now….
Hello again Olga,
In the US, there are two kinds of right wing. They sometimes work together and may sound the same to the casual observer. You have a right there that likes business, has wealth, builds coporations and uses money to influence the political system and to get it’s way in general. They are the ones who have a lot and have a lot to lose. Some of these people are self made, while many represent multi-generational entreched wealth. They already have money; what they really want is power.
The second kind appeals to the fears and frustrations of the have nots: crime, illegal immigration, abortion and culture war issues. The followers of this kind of right feel deep patriotism and have far less, if anything, to lose.
Hungary, 20 years after 1989, hardly knows anything like the first kind of right that I mention above. That kind of right needs generations to form. It’s quite a job, for us to breed a patrician Magyar class that feels self-confidence rather than self pity, optimism rather than melancholy. One that is not intimidated by the world and it’s existing institutions, and knows how to make them work on their behalf.
All developed societies breed these kind of people eventually. Such conentrations of power can work against the public interest, sure. But without such a class and it’s leadership, no nation has ever become truly wealthy.
@ Farkas Laszlo
Given the Magyar history, it’s hard after a mere blink of an eye in History (20 years) to gain self-confidence and move on from self-pity.
My parents bailed out in ’56 – so whatever gains Hungary made towards Democracy, can be credited to those who stayed and those who were born after ’56
I completely agree with your analysis of the American Republicans – at least Hungary does not appear to have the same right wing religious zealots per capita as Uncle Sam
Favour to ask: If I write ” The American Democrats support Universal Health care and the Republicans are vehemently against it” , could you please give me a sentence that would describe the MSZP and FIDESZ parties’ main bone of contention? Thanks in advance.
I’m unable to sleep, and so in the middle of the night I get up to see what’s going on here and what do I see? People wanting my opinion!
OK Olga. One sentence? I risk stirring up a hornet’s nest by oversimplifying, but here goes:
MSZP evolved from out of the old Communist party, endorsed the application of neo liberal economics and international investment in Hungary (along with some corruption); while FIDESZ started off as a left party that became socially conservative, while eventually embracing a more traditionally “left” economic policy.
If that sounds convoluted and confusing, welcome to Hungary and Hungarian politics!
It’s like you say, 20 years is nothing in the life of a nation, and much of this smacks of something that is evolving, and which is also new to us. We are a work in progress.
After the fall of Communism, America and it’s neo liberal free trade evangelists like Jeffrey Sachs of Harvard (who also advised the Russians) ruled supreme and crowed loudly. They had “won”. Our MSZP leaders then were seduced by it all and allowed a lot of Hungarian assets to be aqcuired. The problem for peoples like us, is that our leaders did not have a real plan for how to put the proceed money to investment use. Much of it went to social spending and corruption. Hence our lack of competitiveness.
The game of unlimited capital movements, combined with letting foreigners buy your assets, is OK for a stronger, more competitive nation.
justasking: sorry for taking so long to answer…has been a mad week. anon600ad comes from a reference to a quote I really like. I also like the kind of contradiction it presents as an identity because it is specific and non-specific at the same time…kind of like me I guess in that I have often struggled with the contradiction of pragmatism Vs idealism and what it means for me as a person.
I don’t really have a ‘political’ positioning. I like some of the elements of what are typically leftist positions like universal healthcare and education. On the other hand though, parties on the left of politics in my country are notorious for being so ‘socially minded’ that they forget to actually watch how much debt they’re running up while they run the economy into the ground. I tend to think that one of the key elements of democracy is the swinging vote that (hopefully) recognises that there are different needs at different times. Of course, there is a huge difference between what is called ‘left’ and ‘right’ in various countries. I just don’t ever want to again be involved in a social group that in seeking some ‘higher moral value’ actually ends up committing greater crimes (legal or ethical)…
@ Farkas Laszlo
Thank you for taking the time to outline the history of the 2 parties. Very helpful
Hope you got back to sleep
@justasking: “your attitude of a ‘simple’ yes or no question… quite arrogant…” Outrageously arrogant. On par with asking him to ‘accept Christ as his personal savior.’ And again, I was impressed how graciously the President handled it. As for ‘elections,’ come on! Does anyone still believe that BS? Especially in America. ‘Electoral College’ and such… What kind of democracy (‘the people rule’) is that? I mean not even in theory! And the reality of sausage making is even more sordid, as Gore Vidal who should know, recently discussed in a Time interview: “The only time I envied Jack was when Joe [Kennedy, JFK’s father] was buying him his Senate seat, then the presidency. He didn’t know how lucky he was. Here’s a story I’ve never told. In 1960, after he had spent so much on the presidential campaign, Joe took all nine children to Palm Beach to lecture them. He was really angry. He said, ‘All you read about the Kennedy fortune is untrue. It’s non-existent. We’ve spent so much getting Jack elected and not one of you is living within your income’. They all sat there, shame-faced. Jack was whistling. He used to tap his teeth: they were big teeth, like a xylophone. Joe turned to Jack and he says, ‘Mr President, what’s the solution?’ Jack said, ‘The solution is simple…
@justasking, continued: “…You all gotta work harder’.” http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/the_way_we_live/article6854221.ece Democracy my ass.
And, what difference has any election made in your life ever anyway? Football games make more difference in most people’s lives than ‘elections.’
@olga: “Yes, I do believe they were tourists…” Do you really? Or do you just want us to believe it? “he denied knowing about the situation…” He actually did not. “About the Holocaust – why not say : Yes, it happened, I agree.” Because it didn’t happen, for one thing, for another, neither I nor anyone else has to believe it. “the nuclear information…” If the US and Israel (I am repeating myself) has nukes, why shouldn’t he? And whom has Iran attacked lately and whom have Israel/US attacked. Based on past behavior whose nukes do we have reason to worry about? “About the young girl – you can believe in conspiracy theories – I don’t.” Conspiracy facts honey, that are before the US Supreme Court as we discuss this: “The Use of Photographs in Psychological Operations… An old 1979 U.S. Army manual on psychological operations ( http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm33-1.pdf ) observed that images of brutal behavior committed by enemy terrorists can reverberate against the practitioner, making him repugnant to his own people…
@olga, more: …Distribution of such images… will give them second thoughts about the decency and honorableness of their cause [and] make them wonder about the righteousness of their ideology… Thus, world opinion will sway…” October 1st, 2009, Steven Aftergood http://www.fas.org/blog/secrecy/2009/10/photos_psyops.html “do you support the Birthers… ?” I didn’t even know who they are until Jimmy Brunn was busted. And I still don’t care because it’s a bogus issue, an obvious distraction. Who put up a huge fortune for BO’s Senate seat and his presidency is what I would like to know. And, stuff like this: “Hmm, hmm, hmm; Barack Hussein Obama; Yes, hmm, hmm, hmm, Barack Hussein Obama… http://vimeo.com/6739391 ” just bums me out completely. (Pleasant memories for you though. When you were a Little Drummer (kisdobos) troop leader and your daddy a party secretary… Those were the days, yes?) “judicial processes in Iran” – what judicial processes?” Compared to the Gringo Justice Gitmo (concentration camp) inmates get, or anyone really that doesn’t have money, makes Persian justice look good, hon. “slimiest creepiest…” Well, someone with your background would feel that way (in sync with everyone else of your background like an ant colony). Begin, Shamir or Netanyahu on the other hand are WONDERFUL, I am sure.