Some 80 to 100 people, most of them in the uniform of outlawed far-right militia the Magyar Gárda, marched to a house in the Roma ghetto in Kiskunlacháza early Saturday.
The following day it was reported that a Roma person had earlier beaten up a mentally handicapped non-Roma woman.
Police managed to normalise the tense situation, a spokesperson for the county police told Népszabadság on Sunday.
Kiskunlacháza mayor József Répás told Magyar Hírlap that “police must investigate and hold the perpetrators responsible. It appears that Gypsies can do anything and police are no longer respected in this country. Anti-Hungarian feeling has become institutional in Hungary, led by the cabinet,” he said. “They keep silent about Roma crime while broadcasting news of crimes committed by Hungarians, particularly if the victims are Roma. This is unacceptable. We live in a morally depraved country,” Répás added.
Jobbik chairman Gábor Vona claimed in a speech to the 400 to 500 local leaders and about 300 people in Magyar Gárda uniforms at Kiskunlacháza that “secret service machinations may be behind the Roma murders, with the intention of unleashing a civil war. If political changes occur, Jobbik will initiate the removal of police leaders and the screening of the police,” he added.
Jobbik will bring justice back to Hungarians.
“If political changes occur, Jobbik will initiate the removal of police leaders and the screening of the police” Gives you heart warming confidence in the future.
Let’s face it József Répás and Gábor Vona are still smarting from the revelation that a non-Roma was behind the local murder, that all the evidence was found in and around his possessions. Rather than accept this and apologise to the Roma community for the fear and intimidation they continue to unleash they make up ridiculous, long winded conspiracy theories that defy Occam’s razor adn plain common sense.
@ Vandorlo;
And what about the rest of what Repas said, You know paragraph 4?
So everybody/anybody that even remotely says something negitive about this community ( Romas) are what all paranoid?
And if we go the distance of apologizing(although I do not know for what…financialy supporting the Roma’s?) Will they inturn apologize back for all that they have done?
@Vandorloo
Well are you not seeing the police brutality now? Or is it justified because it’s protecting your kind the establishment’s lies? This is not a Just police force currently in Hungary they’re a mob of gangsters running this dept currently.
Vindaloo/Vanquish you. Stay on your favourite aunty’s knee over on Pestiside.
BTW. Have you and Duncan built your marketing empire yet??? Remenber? I do!
Gypsies are a big problem here in Hungary.
And the problem gets bigger everyday. They refuse
to integrate, are a law unto themselves, and have no real respect for the police, flag, or Hungarians.
They breed like rabbits and soon..maybe in 5-10 years will be in the majority in Magyarorszag.
Re-named afterwards as Magypoland.
@Vándorló
“Let’s face it József Répás and Gábor Vona are still smarting from the revelation that a non-Roma was behind the local murder… Rather than accept this and apologise to the Roma community for the fear and intimidation they continue to unleash they make up ridiculous, long winded conspiracy theories that defy Occam’s razor adn plain common sense.”
cont’d…
http://www.budapesttimes.hu/content/view/12985/210/
As the above letter from Jobbik to the Budapest Times shows, there are three chief characteristics to these “longwinded conspiracy theories that defy Occam’s razor and plain common sense” you refer to: i.e. Jobbik’s version of events on this case. First, they have not changed. Second, they denied any involvement by Jobbik or the MG, despite histrionic protestations to the contrary, as absurd. Third, they have always been proven absolutely correct.
One version of Occam’s lex parsimoniae is to say simply, “do not needlessly multiply hypotheses.” Jobbik’s version fits in with this very neatly indeed. They have simply asked one question: “Who benefits the most from all of this?” How long have the suspects been in custody now? If there was even the smallest piece of evidence to link them to the mainstream nationalist movement – wouldn’t it have been plastered everywhere, internationally? And that’s the only reason why anybody’s smarting around here chum, and it’s the likes of you who are walking around with egg all over your faces; because you’d believed your own hype and propaganda so much that you just can’t tolerate the fact that the bullshit you peddled for so long has now been shown to be? Bullshit.
cont’d…
It is not they who should be issuing an apology; it is they who should be receiving one! For the systematic campaign of deliberate politically motivated slander so many thought themselves entirely justified in engaging in; that you are continuing to this day.
The only people unleashing “fear and intimidation” were those in the press and government who so thoughtlessly and indifferently spent so long trying to convince the Roma they were under threat, by peddling the lie that their Magyar Gárda neighbour had an AK-47 under his pillow, and was just itching for the moment to drive up in the middle of the night and pepper him and his family full of lead.
Sanctimonious scumbags like you, in point of fact. I’d say “shame on you,” if I thought a Commie shit-for-brains capable of any shame.
Occam’s razor indeed!
As far as I understand from the MTI report, more than eighty members of an illegal organization (the verdict concerning the Magyar Garda ban was not overthrown) marched towards a house in a Hungarian town. Finally, the police managed to “normalize the tense situation”.
The obvious “abnormality” was the following (considering the clear-cut illegal status of the Magyar Garda): how the members of an illegal group managed to assemble there and why were they allowed to do so? Who allowed them to assemble?
The second “abnormality” is that a Hungarian party leader spoke to some “400 to 500 local leaders and about 300 people” displaying the same banned organization uniform. Maybe I am wrong, but in Hungary the rule of law does not seem to exist! For such a picnic, regardless its purposes, in any civilized country that leader would have faced impeachment (and probably imprisonment). The organizers of such stag parties would also have faced the court of justice.
Any other ideological features are useless to be considered here. Do Hungarians want to keep an organization banned by their own law? Excellent! But a clear-cut answer has to be given before it is too late. The political actions of Magyar Garda do not matter in this context. What does really matter is the mere persistence of an illegal organization, defying a verdict of a court of justice in its own country.
You would expect somebody to have called the police a bit sooner. I mean, 300 people all dressed in white gowns with big pointy white hats all a whopping and a hollering. And the Roma all shouting “Hey! Where the white woman at?”
@morvik
The really rather simple and straightforward way of giving the lie to the kind of things said by the likes of morvik, are to pay close attention to those things he ever so conveniently assumes to be universally accepted, beyond dispute, already established or self-evidently “abnormal.” That he is an apologist for tyrannical behaviour is indeed self-evident.
cont’d…
And just by chance, the organization which embarrassed them all internationally, and showed them to be useless nationally; ended up being made illegal. How wonderfully convenient… It is now three years since September ’06, why is it that the Socialists still continue to live in this fantasy world where they think their lies do not come with consequences? When will they ever learn this lesson? Perhaps when they suffer the same fate at the next election that the SZDSZ did in the last!
There has been a crime committed, a terrible, awful crime against the most fundamental civil right to free assembly, and for citizens to defend their homes and property when they’re cursed with an indifferent and incompetent police force. And do these facts enter into your platitudes, into your bland assumptions?
No. You live on a planet in which you’ve had your little victory: on paper. And that’s enough. And your rural countrymen are murdered and pillaged, their daughters raped, and when they have to do something about it, when there simply is no-one else to defend them, what do you do? Why you tut-tut, point to and wave your little piece of paper; and say “just take it.” Just keep on taking it, pay through your nose in taxes for it, watch us disassemble every good thing about your country into the bargain… and think yourself lucky we don’t throw you into jail for daring to oppose us.
Fat chance.
BOB, BOB, he’s our man, if he can’t say it no one can! Yyyyeeeeaaaaahhhhh BOB!
What really blows my mind is the arrogance of the Socialists to continuous flood of lies, they really think that there won’t be consequences? There is so much evidence against the henchmen and Tibor Draskovics with their bogus terror video, Roma crime scandal, anti Hungarian civil rights , imprisoned patriots and the list goes on and on.
Socialists are a group outside the boundaries of judicial or ethical conduct. The consequences of their crimes will consist of forcing the wrongdoers to suffer and pay for the destructive steps they have unleashed on Hungarians.
@Bobshomebutthelightsarenton: Jesus. Let me get this right. Your idea of apply plain reasoning and Occam’s razor is to pit these two scenarios:
1. Lone local boy with psycho problem, after a series of escalating attacks, ends up killing one of his victims.
2. Tens, if not hundreds, of government officials take time out from their day jobs to collude on a plan to go round murdering multiple victims.
Occam’s razor, jack ass, requires the simplest solution, not the f’ing craziest.
Is ‘gypsy crime’ a fallacy? Yes, in that it overtly implies a genetic disposition to such. Is crime committed by gypsies a fallacy? No, just as crime committed by any other social and ethnic group isn’t. As you say “…this doesn’t mean that an entire community must bear the burden of responsibility for the actions of a few.” Quite.
“Then what, might I ask, are you doing coming here and saying; when the murderous assassins that have terrorized the Roma community have been shown to have no link whatsoever to the Hungarian Guard…” Don’t be such a jack ass. Vona and Répás are playing games to try to cover the embarrassing state of play in Kiskunlacháza for the racist mayor. The guarded have been their toys then and now. That’s why ‘I come here saying…’
“…and apologise – for what exactly? For telling the truth??” Répás needs to apologise for claiming it was a Roma when it wasn’t, for intimidating the local community when he had no proof and may have hindering efforts to locate the murderer.
@Vándorlófaszaseggedbe (two can play at that game…)
I hope you will excuse me if I do not waste any more of my time, which is currently precious, in debating Occam’s razor with someone who says, “Occam’s razor, jack ass, requires the simplest solution, not the f’ing craziest.” And justifies this as a refutation of my position by using a Morton’s fork argument. Yawn yawn yawn. As you can imagine my tolerance for socialist garbage mongers is currently at a low ebb. God, the idiots you think we all are.
Because as you well know, it is not a refutation of anything. You Leftists always come here as if you’re debating from a position of strength and authority, when it’s laughable! You’re a blatant bunch of bullshit merchants, who whenever evidence emerges which can test your assertions, they pretty much always turn out to be nonsense; and you have the most horrendous established record – globally, thanks to Balatonőszöd – in the use of deliberate deception as a political tool.
I say again. The Jobbik position is and has always been clear:
http://www.budapesttimes.hu/content/view/12985/210/
And each piece of evidence, as it emerges, almost unanimously proves their assertions to be correct. Not yours. Deal with it Numbnuts.
imprisoned patriots
Law at September 28, 2009 8:55 PM
—
Can you name them?
All commentators here (except those traitors whose presence would have to be stopped by the administrator of this page) are right in their patriotic indignation. Garda was declared illegal? It does not matter, we, the real people, will shout and prove our truth, the only and sacred national truth! Parliament has to be closed! The laws are injust! The Government sold us to the greedy Western bankers, and the international Jewish-American plot is suffocating us! SO, it is time for Garda to take action! They have heroic examples in Europe, bringer of peace, wisdom, and tranquility: IRA and ETA, for instance, whatever the mainstream press will say! Those are our real Western peers!
@gyaszeset
“The Government sold us to the greedy Western bankers, and the international Jewish-American plot is suffocating us! SO, it is time for Garda to take action! They have heroic examples in Europe, bringer of peace, wisdom, and tranquility: IRA and ETA, for instance, whatever the mainstream press will say! Those are our real Western peers!”
It is the first time in my life I entered this site and I most confess that it is priceless to me, if the interventions here are authentic. For instance, the text above is a handbook-like example of intepretative delirium. There are also forms of paranoid psychoses… If this is organized by a departmaent of psychiatry, those people have all my grattitude. I already have material for the next two months. Thank you once again.
@ Kereny;
Wow, you are like soooo funny. I bet your really well educated are’nt you. Cool. Wanna grab a cup of coffee sometime?
@all
At 9.39PM (above) I said that the Socialists have “the most horrendous established record in the use of deliberate deception as a political tool.” Given gyazeset’s comments came just over an hour after my own, I don’t think I have ever been proven right, so immediately, in my entire life.
“The only and sacred national truth!” *attempts to stifle guffaw* “Parliament has to be closed! The laws are injust!” etc. etc. When in doubt: smear. When you feel threatened: smear. When proven wrong: smear. I particularly liked the intentional spelling mistake, “injust,” coupled with the skillful ‘guilt by association’ part at the start, how did it go? Ah yes, “All commentators here (except those traitors whose presence would have to be stopped by the administrator of this page) are right in their patriotic indignation.” Then onto the lunacy, that, at the risk of telling the truth, nobody actually believes. That was very skilfully done; I mean that. How nervous they really must be…
There certainly are a suspiciously large number of people who have entered Politics.hu for the “first time in [their] life” today.
You guys are so predictably boring…..ZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
“There certainly are a suspiciously large number of people who have entered Politics.hu for the “first time in [their] life today.”
Sir, I swear that was the first time and this is the last time I post something on this site. I will use it only on professional purpose, very different from everyday politics. It is not necessary to be so aggressive and menacing(“suspiciously large number”, for instance). Unfortunately, the connections you made between my humble post and another one (was it signed ,,funeral”?) are a symptom of interpretative delirium. I think you need careful assistance from a specialist. I sincerely wish you a good and quick recovery.
@kereny
From my limited psychotherapeutic knowledge, surely “interpretative delirium” most have some form of basis? Something actual, and extant, from which the flight of fancy takes off? There must actually be something real which is being fallaciously interpreted. Not so?
As a professional, would you view this as preferable in a patient’s diagnosis; to say the hallucination of completely imaginary manifestations? Hearing voices for example, or imagining things that simply aren’t there, that have no basis in fact? Isn’t the latter indicative of a deeper and more worrying psychosis? Like for example calling someone “aggressive” or “menacing” when this simply has no basis in any appreciable reality?
Incidentally, would you be so kind as to locate any actual menacing or aggressive wording in my previous comments to you? Feel free, a sentence or word. Give it your best shot.
If you find such an endeavor a bit of a challenge, as I did, please consider the following sentence as actually containing an aggressive impulse, you could use it as a template to try and locate by comparison anything that would support your previous imaginings:
Perhaps it would be wise, if in future you subjected your own ill-chosen words to some form of actual analysis before you decide to use them to grace us with cack-handed psychoanalyses.
It’s lovely to get a free consultation and all, but it just seems such a poor substitute to actual clarity of thought.
@ Kereny;
What fancy shmancy talk!! Interpretive delerium!
“Aggressive and menacing”, yes at times it does seem to get a little out of hand; but, so does life. What you see/hear are, on the most part, normal people with normal frustrations that in some instance have reached their limit.
There is nothing wrong with that.
You may choose to live in sterile existance…that is your right. Some of us choose to live a life of passion, either in conversation or what ever…and that is our right.
So go ahead and “observe” us from a distance, and while you are doing that…ask yourself, are you living your life or just existing.
2 things:
a) No wonder the place was Kiskunlacháza, where the Mayor still blames unknown Roma for a crime that the Police already caught and secured overwhelming technical evidence. Obviously the Mayor has no problem accusing people he does not like as a group for crimes they hardly could have committed.
-
b) Anyone who accused Jobbik/MG of having organized the serial-killings in the country-side has not yet been correct.
*But* and this is a big difference, most of these people has meant that the organized hatred that Jobbik/MG has been hard working to stir up, has been positive for these serial-killers.
It started several years ago with the US-based ‘GypsieCrime’ website and continued when the MG was given marching-orders to intimidate poor Roma slum.
-
And now it is continuing in these latest manifestations together with the Kiskunlacháza Mayor.
The arrested Debrecen-Nazis are described as Patriots by the same people who is trying to spread the Word About Jobbik.
As usual Jobbik is toeing the line for what is allowed, the individuals do not.
“Burn, Baby, Burn! Burn this Sucker Down!”
[Song lyrics from 1970s “Disco Inferno.”)
The Header and banner advertising on this site is so PRO-COMMIE !!
@Bobscountrybunker
It’s an eye opener to read your views on politics and how well you present your material, it’s a shame there is no sites that can truly maintain a civil patriotic discussion where we could learn from one another without being targeted by the Socialists character assassinations and complete lies which they present to demoralize truth seekers.
Keep up your spirit and look forward to celebrating with a toast of Palinka when Jobbik get into parliament, making of history , one that will shake the foundations of Hungary back onto the right path, the Better way. szebb jövőt
“Civil patriotic dicussion”? Would you be so kind to explain this phrase? If it is a discussion between TWO participants, is there a THIRD who decides which are the “civil” and the ‘patriotic” replies? Or maybe you already have a compulsory “civil patriotic rules” to be followed by the participants? Indeed, when your favorite politicians will come to power Hungary will become “civil and patriotic.” Like in the good old days of Rakosi. Or Szalasi if you prefer.
Law;
Hello, friend!!
No really, would you want to have a site where we all sit around agreeing with one another all of the time? My God, would you not find that boring after awhile? I would.
Mind you, some of the attacks that we have all experienced I sure we could have done without. That being said, you can not tell me that you do not check this site often as I, to see what “conversations” are happening/interesting to join in on!
I don’t have a comment – only questions.
Just discovered this website a couple of week ago and trying to figure out the political scene in Hungary.
Jobbik and the Magyar Garda seem to be the extreme Right – scary people in my opinion .
Anyhow , Jobbik is not hard to figure out. Krisztina Morvai is.
One minute I read about her and think she is this brilliant lawyer fighting for Human Rights, minority rights, women’s rights etc etc and the next minute she is supported by Jobbik.
Unless there are two Krisztinas , can someone tell me where the “real Krisztina” stands? I read some of her Interviews and they contradict one another.
Also, which Hungarian Political party resembles (somewhat) the Liberal Party of Canada or the Dems of the USA?
I have no problems understanding Canadian or American political party platforms but Hungarian ones are a puzzle
In the meantime, I’ll just keep reading these threads…
@ Olga;
What I am about to write is MY opinion. You asked about Krisztina Morvai, just the one woman, lawyer, womens advocate, and I do believe she was a minority rights lawyer…do not quote me on that though. Any how, yes she is a member of the Jobbik party of Hungary. I will not talk about the Magyar Garda for I am still doing research on them and I have not yet formed an opinion.
Now you said that after reading some stuff, you said that Jobbik “appear” to be scary people. Go onto their website; http://www.jobbik.com, it is in English, read it first and form your own opinion.
Now, you also wanted to know if there was a political party that matches our Liberals…not really. The way I see it they do not have a “real” liberal party…just various degrees of communists, no I am not joking and I am not trying to be coy. They paint the Jobbik party the way our liberal media in Canada paints the Conservative party. They get onto this “be careful there is this hidden agenda” type hype that gets people all in a flutter and nobody knows where to turn. The only people that benefit are of course the politicians, while the people of the country are the ones paying the price. Now, because you and I have talked before on the pesticide website, I know that you are from back east and I am from out west…we are suppose to be mortal enemies. That being said I quess it comes down to your point of view. I believe if you work hard, you will get rewarded, I also like the fact that we have
con’t…
Universal health care which is as socialist as you can get.
In Canada, when we hear about “money” gone missing, everybody gets up in arms and demands an investigation. That is how we are in canada…very politicaly correct to the point that people sometimes see us as pushovers…I do not agree with; but, everybody is entitled to their own opinion.
Now, there is a shit load of other things that are going on as well. Issues with the Gypsies, consipracy from the Zionist you name it somebody has a theory about something. On the most part, people are very helpful, others well… you met Bela? Need I say more.
I also found that opinions vary drastically, from wingnut right/left to centre right/left and everything else in between.
@justasking
Thanks for the website – looked at it for a second but plan to read it and as you said , form my own opinion.
Actually you kind of confirmed what I thought – It’s hard to figure out the differences between some of the Hungarian parties.
I am a Liberal but I also like Harper – so things are just not black and white in this world – lots of gray .
Well, back to my Hungarian studies…
@ Olga;
Best be careful who hears you saying that you like Harper, you just might get skinned alive back there! Talk to you later Eh!
@Olga and Justasking
The reason I mentioned a site was that we could fine tune one another’s knowledge, it would be a relief to have conversation without being tracked by Neo Liberals, harassed and stalked, this is how low theses guys will go, that’s why be careful what you write about yourself, they monitor you and when there is enough information will attempt to come after you with all kinds of lies and character assassinations, so be warned, this is why I mentioned having a site where we can share info and discussion without the parasites continuous harassment.
I come across Bobscountybunker several weeks ago and he wrote marvelous pieces that for me sums up the Hungarian, European and global politics, I couldn’t word it as well as him so I would like to share it with you.
“In Europe the media use the three main weapons Fascism, Nazism or Communism to smear and box in political parties and there is no such ideology anymore. People should stop trying to use the terminology and realities of the last century to describe the problems of the current one.
cont:
What there are, are two ideologies that have dominated European politics for 40 years. 1. Laissez-faire Capitalism, and, 2. Socio-liberal Multi-culturalism. Both kinds of supporters exist in 90% of all political parties.
This is how people define their own politics. For the first group, one’s politics depends on one’s answers to Economic questions. And anyone whose opinions radically differ is dismissed as a Communist. For the second group, your politics depends on how you answer socio-liberal questions. And anyone whose opinions radically differ is ultimately dismissed as a Fascist.
But neither are true, and this is our political party Jobbik Hungary , party leasder Gábor Vona’s is a genius. Because what he says is not only that both of these principles have been ruling essentially unopposed (in the EU) for 40 years, and are responsible for the mess we find ourselves in; but also, that there’s not a damn thing any European voter can do about it. (In both these statements – and in saying that Gypsies are responsible for the vast majority of crime and something needs to be desperately done about it – he is absolutely right. The gypsy crime issue is “more an attack on an underclass than a racial group.” Again it’s not ideology, or hate, or fear, or an unwillingness to stare demographic facts in the face: it’s just common sense.)
Cont:
Executive power now lies at the European level and the national voter is impotent to change the laws that matter. It’s much easier to call Vona Gabor a Nazi or a Haider-shagger than to address these points: because they are valid ones
In such a circumstance where there is a trans-national status-quo which nobody can change, and which operates indifferent to the interests of individual nations there is in fact a correct dividing line to take i.e. asking yourself whether a particular policy, or act or law, is in line with your country’s national interests or against it. This is what Gabor Vona and Jobbik say.
The reason why the BNP won in the North of England was NOT directly due to their campaign regarding Muslim rapes? And that the majority of London school children are now NOT from immigrant stock; and anyway it wouldn’t matter if they were, as that’s just fine because it wouldn’t radically alter the nation’s character anyway?
And frankly, what does a nation’s “old” character matter anyway? It’s all a historical flux, yeah let 2 out of the 9 million Swedes be immigrants, there won’t be consequences. And those who say there obviously are going to be can be dismissed as Xenophobes or insane or worse; like in the UK.
cont:
Oh no, it just happens to be yet another country where hundreds of thousands of voters have just become Nazis overnight, even though this is historically impossible. Funny how all this always seems to happen in places in France or Holland or Denmark or Sweden or the UK or Hungary where there is all this (according to you and other PC ideologues) non-existent (“nonsense!”) crime. Rape victim piles on rape victim and all of you just yawn indifference. For shame!
The neo liberals , call anyone who says something you don’t agree with a Fascist, that NEVER get old.”
Thanks for your contribution Bobscountybunker!!
Here is another Hungarian English website that has interesting news on Hungary
http://www.hungarianambiance.com/
More like same, old Jobbik approved propaganda.
@ justasking
I ran across the following article by Anna Porter
(Formerly Anna Szigethy, well known award winning Canadian Author. ) She attended a Catholic Private School in New Zealand after she left Hungary as a young girl in 1956. Now lives in Toronto
So much for my research on Jobbik. I am done.
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/183989-Fascism-the-next-generation
@ Olga;
Well I went over the article that you provided. It truly was a very well writen article and by your reaction the author succeeded in what she wanted to do…tug at your heart strings and have YOU looking for a person/people/party to blame.
I will not deny not now and not ever that there are people being murdered on a daily basis because of religion, ethnic, cultural around the world. What you were not told, what the author injected in a very casual way, was the killing of Hungarian people by the Roma’s. She briefly mentioned that father that was beaten to death in front of his 2 small children by Roma’s when the Roma child ran in front of his car and was “nicked” meaning, the child was more shaken then hurt. Or how about that father that had his head kicked in (he died) by some Romas when he tried to stick up for a grocery clerk who was being harrassed because the store did not carry the booze that they wanted. Or how about that soccer player that was stabbed to death just out side a nightclub, by Romas, because he had the nerve to stick up for a waitress who was just trying to collect the money for the drinks that she had served them. I could go on if you want, there is lots more.
In the article, it was mention that the EMS “took there time” to walk down the road to assist to the 2 wounded people, what you have not been told was how on other occasions how the EMS get the shit kicked out of them by Romas when they respond to other emergency calls.
cont’
How they will not go to some areas in Hungary without a police escort.
” Members of the former Soviet bloc welcomed democracy” fuck me…did you not hear bells going off on that one? If they wanted democracy so much, why now? Why not fucking 50 years ago…did you not ask yourself that?
“The foreign companies that enjoy tax-exempt status” Do you know how that works? Something like for 5 years these companies if they bring work to Hungary do not have to pay tax. Pretty short sighted on the Governments part; but, they have to shut the people up somehow so they throw them a bone of jobs for a little bit. After the 5 years are up, these companies FUCK OFF from Hungary and the country gets NOTHING.
There is a situation with the Gypsies that needs to be addressed, just like we have a situation with out Native Indian population. We created it along with them…we are just as much to blame as they are. Thats what happens when you continue to breast feed a group of people, they never learn to stand on their own.
Hear this… Jobbik did not create the situation in Hungary…the precious liberal/socialists did. Jobbik as far as I can see are trying to clean it up. Some issues are bypartisan and this is one of them .What you may not know is that Hungary is on the verge of collapse and that is not an over exageration.
There you have it, thats my opinion. I have to make one more little comment, when my parents came out in 1956, they did not have a pot to piss in nor a window
to throw it out of. You tell me that this woman went to Private Catholic School in New Zealand in 1956? I wonder what you would say if you knew where that money came from and what that womans family did to get it.
@justasking – Which company left after its 5 year tax-exempt status ran out? I’m just curious.
justasking just forgets that Hungary just gone through its worst modern killing series, motivated by racism and fueled by the propaganda Jobbik/Magyar Garda is very clever to put out.
Roma are treated as a ‘bad group’ without individuals, the serial killers from Debrecen are called ‘Hungarian Patriots’.
Of course that is also everyone’s fault except Jobbik’s.
@justasking – What are you implying about her money? I’m just curious.
@ Curious George;
I believe one was IBM, and a couple others went to Romania. Off the top of my head I can’t remember which companies, Law or Laci would know though I think.
@ Curious George;
I’m just saying that from what I understand, only 2 types of people came out in 56′. Those average Hungarians that come out with nothing, just wanted to live a life of freedom. The others were the ones that worked for the Government and knew that their days of milk and honey were about to end. They “grabbed” what they could and left. Back then, I believe Hungarians had a choise of either United States, Canada or Austrailia.
@justasking – Where did you get your facts? IBM is still a major employer in Hungary.
How about those other companies in Romania?
@ George;
Settle down there guy. I know IBM is still a big employer in Hungary…they used to be more jobs, I believe they shut down a factory where there was some type of manufacturing. I think another factory, that was manufacturing bikes, pissed off as well. Anyhow, as I said I don’t remember off the top of my head. Besides, if your that interested, untie that piano that is tied to your ass and look it up yourself. The information is out there.
@justasking – let’s get this right, dollface, instead of plucking facts out of your ass.
IBM’s manufacturing business for that plant was bought up by Hitachi or Toshiba (I can’t remember exactly which). It had nothing to do with the expiry of tax exemptions. I used to deal with their management at the time.
Let hear the bicycle story now? Piano? Hell, no, I’m more curious in hearing your bullshit.
Kraft Foods has said that it will close down its only production facility in Hungary and move production elsewhere. The company has hinted that production of confectionery and coffee could shift to Slovakia and Austria.
Citing inefficiencies and a lack of possibilities for future development at the Budapest plant, the US company added that the plant would be closing in the Spring with the loss of 320 jobs. The announcement comes after last year’s disappointing financial results for the global food giant.
The company has said that the year ahead should prove to be a year of consolidation as the company endeavours to eliminate some 6,000 jobs – or 6 per cent of its work force. Last year’s earnings were down 7 per cent to US$869 million, compared to a year earlier.
Currently Kraft Hungary is the leading manufacturer of confectionery in the Hungarian market. But despite the fact the company still views that by shifting confectionery to Bratislavia, Slovak Republic, it will still save money. The company is also the third largest producer of coffee on the Hungarian market, but still considers that it will save money by shifting the production to Vienna, Austria.
Hungarians Sugar, Dairy, Juicy Pork, Goose Liver Industry and many agricultural sectors all deteriorating due to the EU and Government policies not protecting our industries and encouraging Bio which we have awesome potential, Jobbik have a strategic plan to be released in a few months . cont:
We have much potential because of the quality of our produce only to fall to the way side because of Capitalisms profit over quality.
@justasking
We both grew up in Canada – have you heard of Anna Porter?
Here is her bio – I didn’t get the impression that she grew up with money. Just the opposite.
http://www.womenspost.ca/articles/lead-news/anna-porter-jailed-age-six
I looked at the website you gave me on Jobbik but it’s their own website so I don’t think I am jumping to conclusions when I say that a truly objective website when it comes to its own organization is non-existent.
I respect Anna Porter as a writer and like everything I read about her. Of course I have always agreed with everything she has written and her political views so obviously I am hugely biased.
I can tell that you and I look at the world differently but I am very impressed with your knowledge about Hungarian politics. A hell of a lot more than mine. Your use of profanity shows passion – you seem so much more Hungarian than
me!!!
I consider myself a “political junkie” but limied to Canada and the USA so it’s a pretty narrow world in the big scheme of things.
Looking forward to reading your postings.
@HP – thanks for clarifying that Kraft was downsizing in Hungary because of inefficiencies and a global downturn, and not because of the expiry of tax exemptions.
@ George;
I will get back to you with a list of names…as I said off the top of my head I do not remember and I said I believe!!!!~That does not mean I know for sure. And stop flirting with me! Dollface indeed!
Olga;
My “knowledge” of Hungarian politics is that of a person learning and listening on a continous basis. I do not view myself as political is as much as pissed off on whats really going on in Hungary. The only people that think Hungary is great right now are all the expats or individuals that have very well paying jobs with foreign companies, and they are not you average Joe blow Hungarian. No, those aforementioned individuals think that all is great, they have great places to live, designer cloths and expendable cash. While your average Hungarian is barely getting by. Why do you think that once they hit 50, they suddenly look 20 years older? It’s from the stress and worry…you won’t hear that from some of these people for they will only see what they want to see. Like you said, you have not been back to Hungary…I suggest that you do go and talk to some of your family members and ask them what they think. I might have miss read what I am about to say and if I did, I apologize in advance. When I really get pissed off I will use profanity. So what. I am just as much a Hungarian as you no more and no less. I just choose to pay attention to whats going on over there, you did’nt; but, now you are and good on you for that.
All I’m saying is keep reading thatsall
@Law – hey dude, did you forget that Hungarian sugar and diary can’t hold a candle to your own Aussie produce. Really……….even with the subsidies they get over here.
You should really teach em what they do in Australia, mate.
@justasking – “Something like for 5 years these companies if they bring work to Hungary do not have to pay tax. Pretty short sighted on the Governments part; but, they have to shut the people up somehow so they throw them a bone of jobs for a little bit. After the 5 years are up, these companies FUCK OFF from Hungary and the country gets NOTHING.”
Sound like your beliefs are ‘Pretty Strong’. But then, I am just curious, and I patiently wait your list.
Not flirting! When I get pissed off, I just send compliments
@ Olga;
There is an old Hungarian saying: A man from a long distance can tell whatever story he wants.
I personaly do not believe everything I read. There is something that just does not jive with her “experiences” in 1956 and after, but does make for a good movie.
@ justasking
No family in Hungary – my Dad’s 2 brothers (age 12 and 15) and my Mom’s sister (age 20) died way before I was born – thus no aunts, cousins etc.
I have been back to Hungary every 2 years since 2000 and saw everything through a Tourist’s eyes. Not exactly educational.
Have you ever lived in Hungary? Do you have relatives there who you can talk to about politics?
I really followed the Hungarian elections when Orban lost a few years ago – I still couldn’t get a clear picture what each party stood for. Then I got busy with personal issues and got back to Hungarian politics recently.
Of course I don’t believe everything I read – especially an organization’s website that’s self-serving.
I have seen Anna Porter interviewed and “liked her” and agree with her philosophy on a lot of issues that have nothing to do with Hungary.
If I believed everything our own politicians are saying, I would be looking forward to Santa’s and the Easter Bunny’s visits every year.
However, when our politicians talk, I understand what they are saying. With the Hungarian parties’ platforms, (reading them in English) I feel like I just listened to Sarah Palin. When she finishes her speeches I ask myself – ” What on earth did she just say?”
@ Olga;
There is nothing wrong with Santa and the Easter Bunny. Yes, I have a pile of cousins from both parents side(though I do have to get my shit together with Dad’s side) Aunts and Uncles. I was just in Hungary actually visiting family and friends. My Dad and I literally went from one end of Hungary to the other. Your right, it is different when you go around a country as a tourist. Because of our family and friends we get exposed to the locals, but we also do not hang out in the tourist spots, we eat in resturants that are frequented by the locals as well we usually stay in Pest for a few days tops, rest of the time we are in the small towns visiting family and friends. You ask if we talk about politics with family and friends…hell yes, what better topic is there! In my family we have from one spectrum to the other, from hard core right to hard core left. Lets just say, it can get a might loud.
This is the mentality what i hate, what the teach us, brain wash us for to long.
When do we ever learn our lessons?!
If somebody kick me, than i wont apalogize!!
That person need to apalogize towards me, and than we can start building some normal relationship betvean us!
Or i punch him back, what i have all the right, and than we are equal!
Not apalogize, and then hopeing that he wont hit me again.
If i say like this everybody understand, and everybody thinks that thats normal.
If i put it in a more complex situation, like Roma punched a hungarian who wears a great hungarian kingdom shirt, and the hungarian then beat the Roma, than peoples brain gets fucked up whit this political corectnes, and racism bullshit, and they starting to thing stupid things, like the racist hungarian(bicause he wears a hungarian kingdom shirt, wich is part of our history, and its good to see that somebody is proud to be a hungarian, and proud of our history, but in the present hungary is clearly a fascist thing, right you fuckers?!) beat up that inocent Roma, who by the way after that called a couple more of his familly members and beat the hungarian to death, but thats alright right?!
Thats ok, bicause it was a self defence!
In the PC law, it seems that the minority can not be racist!?
Discusting.
The same whit the Slovaks!
They spit on us, but we need to behave, right? Dont do nothing bicause than they might leave us, and the hungarians is Felvidek alone!
Discusting mentality
some brief comments on the various elements of this thread.
Having worked for ‘Hungary’s finest’…(hmm)
I actually don’t disagree with the idea that some of the police force ‘management’ needs to be shaken up, tipped out and replaced. Many of the higher ups are still the same communists as before. Having said that, I think it’s very dangerous to do it as a reactive measure and possibly end up replacing one tyranny with another.
There is some movement in the police force toward crisis prevention and more peaceful negotiation/liaison with the community. Developing training for that was one of my jobs while I was there. The hard part is convincing the decision makers that it is actually something worth doing for its practical benefits rather than just doing it as a token gesture to get more EU money.
I think it would be naive to suggest there isn’t such a thing as ‘gypsy crime’. While I was in Miskolc, I visited the county ‘remand centre’ in BAZ county to interview the commandant and prison psychitarist. The place is terribly overcrowded, with 98% of the ‘guests’ being Roma. HOWEVER, the question for me is not whether or not the phenomenon of ‘gypsy crime’ exists, but what is the nature of it? In any case, what I do know is that further hatred, violence and threats don’t do anything to improve the situation, and really only result in more hatred, violence, threats and overflowing prisons.