Finally, It took him a while. Don't worry Slovaks, more fire is coming, just wait!

Fining people thousands of euros for speaking a certain language in public, is going to breed a reaction, and will not be sustainable as a policy in the long run. Such a law would be unconstitutional in Pataki's US, as well as in most other EU member states.

Quote:
"Pataki denounced Slovakia's language law as a violation of human rights, and said no other country on earth had such laws that would punish people for speaking their mother tongue."

Except that George Pataki, like hungarian government before him in its furious 3-months lasting anti-slovak campaign, wasn't able to name a single concrete example in what the law is so discriminating and unbelievably monstrous, that it has "no place on earth". After all that's why Hungary was calmed down by EU with a suggestion to rather focus on its desolate economic situation. Listening to the imaginations of Pal Csaky, appointed leader of hungarian minority party in Slovakia, who led the party to its division and almost to the edge of its electability in slovak parliament, didn't prove a good choice for hungarian government and is not a good choice even for this unheard american politician. The fancy stories of Pal Csaky and Miklos Duray about slovak citizens penalized for using their mother tongue, which they had successfully spread among narrow minded hungarian public and thereby in certain international circles, was already examined and evaluated correctly by European Union. And same should be done by the US.

In slovakia they do just the otherway than is done in Finland, there the constitution provides right for the minority speakers (=swedish, ca 6 % of population, less than hungarian speaking people in Slovkia as far as i know) to use their own language in all dealings with state and mostly at the municipality level, i.e. the principle is that everybody should be able to use their native language in all official situations.

Here it seems that the intention is just the opposite. To me that is sad, as hungarian is definitely historical language for these people (they are not recent immigrants).

Why politician do not leave people alone!!!
... while seemingly protecting people rights, politicians such as Pal Csaky and Duray cooking their bad taste soup....as well as on other side Mr. Slota drunk mountaineer h(z)ero…
Please let a people live their everyday lives!!!
Mr. Pataki maybe did a good job during his previous terms in US but should get a facts straight before announcing or denouncing anything…. as well as speaking on behalf of US !!!!

This is a greatest lie ever
Hungarians can use their language everywhere,in schools,work,etc....
Please all of you stupid radicals come to our lovely country and you better check it before you judge.
There is no better place to live - Slovakia rules.

You cannot question the Slovak superiotity on this issues. My previus writers are correct.

Just look in any text-book not writen by hungary-an from magyarland!!!

Vila amalka,

i hope you are right about language... otherwise, i agree with you, i have always liked slovakian people and the country is nice... i just hope that your politics would not be so concentrated in disputes with hungary (and the other way round). But all my slovakian friends are very smart and i have never heard anybody speaking bad things about hungary (any more than finns about swedes (and they do deserve it), or english about, well, any continental european)...

@ile

I see your point - I also met nice people in Slovakia and enjoyed the scenery.

Unfortunately, nice scenery notwithstanding,
Slovakia has enacted a law that limits the use of the Hungarian language in its borders which is not only a violation of human rights , but ironic since both countries are fellow EU members.

Kurt Vollebaek, the OSCE High Commissioner for Minorities stated: that “ that while the basic aspects of the Slovak language law conform with international standards, some parts of the legislation, especially the intent to levy fines, could be problematic.”

Translation: The legislation is so ambiguous that no one knows what the f….. it means and how it impacts on Hungarian speaking people on a day to day basis. While lawyers and politicians are arguing about points of law and legal interpretations, Hungarian speaking people are suffering and being discriminated against. When Vollebaek used the word “especially” that simply means that problems are not just limited to fines but to other sections of the law as well.

Personally, I found the following article really helpful in understanding why the Hungarians are so upset

http://www.budapesttimes.hu/content/view/12866/220/

Olga,

don't misunderstand me. I would much rather see law that improves the rights of minority speakers when they are historical minorities of the area (like hungarians in current slovakia, or swedish speaking people in finland) than any law that seems to diminish those. I find this law absolutely useless and counterproductive.

I assume that the new law is more a reflection of some kind of historical inferiority complex that is now used to advance political purposes. Of course nowadays normal slovakian people have no reason to feel inferior to anyone.

And as far as i can see, as you say, the way law seems to be written, hungarian speaking people have right to be worried, even if today they can freely use hungarian language.

So my understanding of the law is similar than yours, however, i don't think this law nor current government of slovakia reflects the opinions of all slovakian people.

The new language law does what should have been done 20 years ago when it became clear that the change of regime woke up hungarian chauvinism and irredentism. Knowledge of the state language is a matter of no dispute in major european countries. No one dares to question the position of the state language in France or Germany where the natives communicate it very clearly what they think about using other languages on their territory. The position of Lusatian serbs, not to say 4 million Turk minority living in Germany.. No one seems even to care about the position of russian minority in Baltic states where russian language was completely removed from education. Only Hungarians have their little problem. The problem with their inadaptability hovewer, not a legislation. Eurostat made a survey recently. It showed that 3/4 of Hungarians don't speak other language than hungarian, which is the worst result in the survey.
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/cache/ITY_PUBLIC/3-24092009-AP/EN/3-24092009-AP-EN.PDF
Based on it one would suggest that learning another one would prove welcome and beneficial to them. But the reality shows different.

Except that Germany has four official minority languages, France has several regional languages that are used at schools etc (and France is THE only country in western europe as far as i know that has only one official language), Baltic states and Russian has absolutely nothing to do with the situation in slovakia (although eventually i assume russian will be recognized), the same with turkey in germany.... not even closely similar situations.

In all countries i know of the trend has been the protection of minority cultures and their languages, as far as i know slovakia is quite alone in this respect. Sad, sad. Pity for otherwise such a nice country and nice people (none of my friends there is supporting this attitude).

We'll see if the Hungarians in Slovakia live with or reject these measures. It's one thing to require the national language in public schools and govt offices. If this law is applied to private communication, it may cause trouble.

ile,
Slovakia is so alone in this respect that Mr. Pataki here expressed his ridiculous opinion from the ground of hungarian university of Janos Seley in Slovakia. Minorities in Hungary can only dream of having such level of protection, education and standards than hungarian minority has in Slovakia. Of course situation in baltic states is of no our interest, how convenient, except that 3 baltic counties are members of EU and thus subject to the same legislative directives than other member states are. Germany may have 4 "official" minority languages, as Slovakia has in the regions where minority population reaches 20%, but has only one official language and that is german. And Germans can be very convincing where letting others known about this. e.g. some week ago german ministry of foreign affairs(!) rejected to answer the question to BBC correspondent in english saying "we're in Germany here". And France, that doesn't even need a commentary. Most of the people there would simply ignore you if you would come to them with some other language then french. Living there and not knowing their language, that's simply unthinkable.

vdx,
Your arguments are difficult to follow and hard to understand.

In your first comment /vdx at October 13, 2009 1:19 PM/ you are suggesting that there is nothing discrimination in the Slovak language law.

In your second comment /vdx at October 16, 2009 6:29 PM / you recognise that the law is actually discriminating, but you justify its existence by saying that the Hungarians are ugly people and have to be oppressed.

In your third argument /vdx at October 16, 2009 9:24 PM/ you try to compare the situations of imigratory communities in other European countries to the situation of Hungarian community in Slovakia, although they are nowhere comparable, since the Hungarian community is a indigenous/historical one. They are living there for a thousand years, and are founders of the Slovak state.

NP-TR,
I'm not aware of putting down any arguments. If there was something to reason against, then I would. But so far, I have noticed only one link apparently addressed to broader hungarian public. If I wouldn't consider it useless, not knowing that most of the people here have their opinion a priori created, I could go point by point to see that 90% of the claims there are magnified stories having nothing common with the reality.

As for your views of the postings you find so difficult to follow:
2) I didn't recognized the law as discriminating. I said it's protecting the state's language, which is the difference. The state's language is slovak language in this case. I also didn't say, that Hungarians are ugly people and have to be oppressed. That is what you put into my mounth. I said, that linguistic knowledge of Hungarians do not exactly reach the highest levels and that learning of another language will do them no harm. A person with average reasonning process can make this deduction.
3) There are groups, even among those I mentioned, which can be considered as indigeous in those countries. An indigenous origin of hungarian population in south Slovakia is however mostly disputable. The roots of today living Hungarians stretching 1000-years into the past is stupidity and the statement that Hungarians are the founders of the slovak state,that's absolute nonsense.

Vdx,
You wrote, you noticed only one link. Here are some links to remedy this situation:
http://plus7dni.pluska.sk/plus7dni/rozhovor/2009/07/kritik.html
http://www.hhrf.org/slovakia/
And most importantly, please, also read the law.

You said the purpose of the law is “protecting the state language”. Protect from what? If you want to protect something, then protect the minority language. That is the weaker and more fragile.

You mentioned “linguistic knowledge of Hungarians”. I think you are a bit confused here. The referred survey covers Hungarians in Hungary not Hungarian minority in Slovakia. The later are at least bilingual. Their Slovak language knowledge is far better than Hungarian language knowledge of their fellow Slovak countryman. If you are a Slovak, you have to be aware of that.

You said “... that Hungarians are the founders of the Slovak state,that's absolute nonsense”
The Slovak state was founded by several ethnic groups. One of these groups is the Slovak and an other is the Hungarian and also there are other smaller groups like Ruthenians, Poles etc. These are facts.
Denying the foundation rights of weaker ethic groups to the Slovak state and banishing their language is a high degree discrimination.

NP-TR,
I read the law several times missing that antihungarian discriminatory part. So go ahead and enlighten me.

If you read the law, then you should know, that it doesn't affect nor diminish in any way the rights of the minorities. The protection of the minority languages, which you see as weaker and more fragile is already guaranteed on sufficient level by previous legislation.
If you read the law, you should also know that it institutes a responsibility to accompany publicly communicated texts, manifestations etc. by their translation into slovak language. As well introducing a preference of using the slovak language in a communication with the authorities. Hungarian minority living in Slovakia is bilingual as you correctly pointed out and to stay it that way, these are in no way non-standard requests. As confirmed by other bilingual communities in Slovakia after all. They have no problem with the law.

What you said about Hungarians being the founders of the slovak state is a somersault hovewer. Slovaks, Romanians, Germans and some others were the founders of Hungarian Empire at a time. Yet all the pomp and glory was eaten just by the ones - they don't need to be named. So I agree, Hungarians as an ethnic group are no doubt the founders of the slovak state. The real question is, when will they start to act like that? Instead of acting like a second colony of Hungary. That is a good question. And it should be particularly applied to SMK and its current leadership.

vdx,
It is difficult to follow your reasoning again.
In your comment (vdx at October 22, 2009 9:28 PM ) you wrote “...that Hungarians are the founders of the slovak state,that's absolute nonsense.” Then in your last comment you acknowledged that: “... Hungarians as an ethnic group are no doubt the founders of the slovak state."
You also ask “when will they start to act like that “, although they are already acting just like that by asking for equal treatment for their culture and language.

Earlier you falsely stated that “...3/4 of Hungarians don't speak other language than hungarian” and on “Hungarians” you meant Hungarian minority in Slovakia. Then in your last comment you acknowledged that Hungarian minority living in Slovakia is actually bilingual.

You asked me to “ go ahead and enlighten me”, because, you wrote, you found nothing discriminatory in the language law. I am sorry, you did not take the trouble of reading the articles at the link in my earlier comment. Those could have very much enlightened you. Nevertheless, seeking enlightenment is a promising sign.

The first language-law-based official investigations by Slovak athorities has already been started. Bilboard advertisements of a Hungarian language newspaper, Szabad Újság, were made only in Hungarian, and authorities initiated investigations to punish the owner of the paper for failing to render Slovak translation.
First I thought it was a joke. But no, it is a damn serious case.
http://ujszo.com/online/kozelet/2009/10/19/nyelvtorveny-vizsgalat-a-szabad-ujsag-plakatok-ugyeben

An other investigation against the mayor of Nagytárkány, a village in south-east Slovakia, was initiated, because he did what he has always done, made public announcements to the residents of the village in Hungarian only. And one addendum - the village is more than 99% populated by Hungarian speakers.
Does the case sound ludicrously unbelievable? Yes, it does. But it is actually serious real life.
http://www.hhrf.org/hhrf/index.php?oldal=410

NP-TR,
if your difficulty to follow my reasoning comes with the fact that I firstly rejected and then admitted your statement that "Hungarians are the founders of the Slovak state" then you perhaps should have tried to elaborate on your mind process more closely next time. Using the word "founders" in your wording looked like some Hungarians were the founders (one and only) of Slovakia which is the idea worth of some jobbik follower. If you're a jobbik follower then say it and we don't need to have this conversation.
So I agreed with you that "Hungarians" are say "co-founders" (not founders) of the slovak state as an ethnic group present in Slovakia at the time, but surely we both know they're not the bearers of slovak statehood nor nationhood. And frankly, their current political representation has around such relationship with a defending of slovak interests like a lighted cigarette has with an open window.

"Earlier you falsely stated that “...3/4 of Hungarians don't speak other language than hungarian” and on “Hungarians” you meant Hungarian minority in Slovakia. Then in your last comment you acknowledged that Hungarian minority living in Slovakia is actually bilingual."

Of course I'm aware of the fact that the survey covers the population of Hungary. That doesn't obscure the fact that hungarian speakers have a tendency to remain linguistically isolated and less inclined towards learning another languages than other speakers.

Sure I know that hungarian ethnic in Slovakia is bilingual, that's why we should insist it to stay it that way. Instead of pursuing the way of linguistical and cultural segregation promoted by certain hungarian parties.

"You asked me to “ go ahead and enlighten me”, because, you wrote, you found nothing discriminatory in the language law. I am sorry, you did not take the trouble of reading the articles at the link in my earlier comment. Those could have very much enlightened you. Nevertheless, seeking enlightenment is a promising sign."

Since you have urged me to read the law, I had supposed that you had studied the law already. What I was was actually hoping for, was to provide me with some concrete examples of anti-hungarian/discriminatory paragraphs cantained in the law. So far your preference was to keep posting doubtful links.
I read those articles that you had posted before, if that's what bothers you. The first was not news to me. German deputy communicated his personal opinion in a time when the opinion of Knut Vollebaek wasn't known yet. In the light of his findings, I'm sure he would revise some of his opinions expressed there. And, although I don't know a background of Michael Gahler, his confrontation of czech and hungarian language (positive-negative discrimination) with which he came there evocated some smileys in Slovakia.

The second article you posted is a mutation of the link posted earlier. Both are are full of deliberate disinterpretations of the language law accompanied by pleasant, but fictive, stories. I don't know about the cases you mentioned with breaking the language law. I searched for the relevant sources, but I didn't find it, so I guess I will have to wait until some "relevant" hungarian papers will leak it out also to the outside world.

vdx,
So far, I tried to point out that your arguments are less factual, and more emotional and it seems that a good deal, based on prejudices, and hence shaky. Your latest comments are also rather ill-considered. Let's see some of them.

“If you're a jobbik follower ...”
Here you try to accuse me of extremism, while the Slovak government includes a clearly nationalist-extremist party. Shoud I also ask, whether you are a supporter of Smer?

“...they're not the bearers of slovak statehood nor nationhood. “
They very much are the bearers of the multi-ethnic Slovak statehood by trying to perserve their language in private as well as public life against all odds.
Or do you mean that ethnic minorities do not pay taxes, or they work less? I hope you do not.

“...relationship with a defending of slovak interests ...”
And tell my friend, what is the interest of “Slovakia, as a multi-ethnic country”? Densly put, it is the well-being of its citizens. And I mean all citizens, not just ethnic Slovaks.

“...hungarian speakers have a tendency to remain linguistically isolated and less inclined towards learning another languages ...”
You may have rightly said that unlike most of the languages of this region, Hungarian is not in the slavic language family. But you did not write that. What you happened to assert is definitely false. Writing space is limited here, so please, consult a linguist and ask for guideance on this matter.
cont...

...
“...pursuing the way of linguistical and cultural segregation promoted by certain hungarian parties ...”
I could not decide for sure whether it is a simple lie or just Slovak nationalist propaganda or both.

“..anti-hungarian/discriminatory paragraphs contained in the law. So far your preference was to keep posting doubtful links. “
Since the article at my second link is a well prepared paper with exact references to discriminatory paragraphs of the language law amendment, you choose to label them “doubtful”. It means that you could not argue with them because you either do not know the language law amendment or you think that the article is actually right.

“..I'm sure he would revise some of his opinions expressed there... “
I am sure he would not, because Knut Vollebaek did criticize the Slovak language law too. Please read the whole text of his opinion.

“..I guess I will have to wait until some relevant hungarian papers will leak it out ..”
You do not need to wait. Scores of Hungarian papers are already published those first cases of official investigations by Slovak authorities on so called language law violations. Investigations are not closed yet, but launching them on such ludicrous incidents is itself alarming, cases of minority harassment.

Pataki is small shiit and wordless,poinless boy. He needs you just for his next election thats way is is so brave in this momment,its shortcut, Europe union dosn't want to lisning you anymore.They dont want to hear any complain about slovakia,so EU=out!! and USA will kick you out soon vocabulary and try to translate yourself, its about you and your identity in europe!
=====>
Pred naším veľvyslanectvom v Budapešti v októbri 2008 sa objavili medzi inými aj transparenty extrémistov s anglickým nápisom „", t. j. bezdomoveckí kríženci neznámeho pôvodu. Koho označovali, resp. komu boli tieto transparenty adresované? Veď ani v Maďarsku, ani na Slovensku absolútna väčšina obyvateľstva angličtine nerozumie. Mal to byť nejaký maďarský trik? Pravdepodobne áno, ale asi im nevyšiel.

Slová na transparente nemôžu byť adresované Slovákom. Veď Slovákom nedávno genetici potvrdili, že sú rekordérmi etnickej dlhovekosti a autenticity. Zistili, že vyše 80% dnešnej populácie Slovenska zdedilo gény po svojich predkoch, ktorí žili v strednej Európe už pred 8 000 rokmi, teda v mladšej dobe kamennej - v neolite. Pravdu možno potláčať, ale nie zničiť (Veritas premitur, non opprimitur - Titus Livius, Seneca ml. a ďalší).

Molekulárna genetika v posledných desaťročiach urobila priam neuveriteľný pokrok. Po rozšifrovaní biogenómu bol rozšifrovaný ľudský génom a v krátkom slede aj historický genofond moderných národov. Výsledky vedeckých analýz genofondov jednotlivých národov spochybnili a

Výskum historického genofondu dnešných Slovákov uskutočnil odborník na vedecké detegovanie ľudských genómov doc. Vladimír Ferák. Jeho vedecky podložené závery sú viac ako pozoruhodné a sú dobrou správou pre všetkých nás. Zistil, že vyše 80 percent Slovákov zdedilo gény po predkoch, ktorí žili v strednej Európe už v mladšej kamennej dobe (t. j. zhruba 6-tisíc rokov pred Kristom)! Súčasná slovenská populácia sa geneticky v ničom zásadne nelíši od ostatných stredoeurópskych populácií. Z toho vyplýva, že väzba neolitikov na obrábanú pôdu bola taká tesná, že geograficky zotrvali na jednom území po celých 8-tisíc rokov. Nuž, ak toto ktosi neuzná za obraz kontinuity etnickej autenticity, potom jednoznačne ide o hegemonistické predsudky.

What is all this slavic language crap from zolo, lolo and zok? It all runs on for too long, nobody around here can read it; and the ones that can read it don't like our people anyway. It all just smacks of hysterical behaviour. I don't need a translation. Our compatriots are in trouble.

NP-TR,
the exhibitions of hungarian extremists are not uncommon to this site. Some of their demonstrations are direct, some indirect. If one spends some time here observing some individuals, he might as well realize, that many of the posters here more or less openly support extreme hungarian views. So I have no problems to admit that my views here are also coloured with the emotions to some extent.

I also admit certain discretion in my writing. I'm not aware that I would be writing a dissertation thesis here. Also, I would like to leave some space for the reactions. If you call it ill-consideration, then you may call it that way. Besides that, my time is limited. Unlike of some of the posters here who apparently spend a great deal of their daytime here. -->

Since you secondly instigated me to react to the article you posted, I will do that. But firstly concerning the following statements:

They very much are the bearers of the multi-ethnic Slovak statehood by trying to perserve their language in private as well as public life against all odds. ...

If by "against all odds" you mean the very existence of the hundrends of educational institutions, cultural houses, churches, schools, kindergartens, the University, where all the subjecst are taught in hungarian, then you might as well wanted to look to at the situation in Hungary, to find out that those who have their full mounth of preaching others, have no minorities left. Or how would you explain, that after 100 years, there have been only 18 000 slovak speakers left in Hungary? In the the country, which is round the corner, while in a distant Romania or Serbia the numbers of slovak speakers count much greater numbers? When the remainders of slovak community living in Hungary have been to Slovakia last year, they had hard time to find their words in slovak. Such an exemplar approach Hungary has when it comes to the situation of their own minorities.

Strangly enough, none of the minorities in Slovakia excluding hungarian, didn't express an objection against the law. Or do you think that the representatives of german, ruthenian, roma minorities in Slovakia are blind, unaware of their rights and unable to recognize a thing which would deteriorated their life standards?

You may have rightly said that unlike most of the languages of this region, Hungarian is not in the slavic language family. ...

I migh have. But I didn't have to, because the survey didn't cover only the "slavic languages". Besides that, most spoken in Europe is english language, not some slavic language, so Hungarians might have as well choose to learn english or some other language where their initial position would be just the same as the position of other nations. So if I say that Hungarians happens to incline less towards learning anoother languages then I'm quite sure I'm not that far from the reality.

I could not decide for sure whether it is a simple lie or just Slovak nationalist propaganda or both.

That's actually pity, but clearly you fail to realize what hungarian hysteria around the language law tends to assert.

I am sure he would not, because Knut Vollebaek did criticize the Slovak language law too. Please read the whole text of his opinion.

Knut Vollebaek said that the law is in line with the international standards. Such an assertion is sufficient to refute primary hungarian argument of a discriminatory character of the law. Or do you want to say that european directives allow for a discriminative legislation?

With reference the article you posted previously (http://www.hhrf.org/slovakia), I have among others these remarks:

The legislation overtly establishes the supremacy in Slovakia of the Slovak language, and thus the Slovak people (Art. 1, ¶ 1).

Language law doesn't establish the supremacy of the Slovak language in Slovakia, because the unique position of the slovak language is already established and anchored in the 6th article of the Slovak Constitution. In the Constitution is stated that the state language in Slovakia is the Slovak language.

Thus, a Hungarian-language cultural event, organized by and for the community, must be introduced in the Slovak language. All public announcements (oral and written), signs, advertisements, commercials; inscriptions on monuments, memorials and commemorative plaques must all be in Slovak and may be followed by a minority-language translation. (Art. 5, ¶ 3, Art. 8, ¶ 6)

This is correct. Cultural events publicly accessible should be introduced also in the Slovak language. The visitors not speaking a minority language are then informed of the character of the event. Such an approach is a part of elementary politeness. -->

An ethnic Hungarian is not able to refer to the capital city of his/her own country ( Bratislava ) by its centuries-old Hungarian name (Pozsony), because the city is not 20 percent or more Hungarian inhabited (Art. 3a).

This is absurd. Ethnic Hungarians can refer to the capital anyhow they want, they can call it Pozsony, Pressbourg, Presporok or the City on the River if they like it. The current official name is Bratislava.

The new language law also afflicts minority-language educational institutions, because it requires schools to keep all internal documentation in Slovak as well. (Art. 4, ¶ 3)

The documentation has been hold in the slovak language all along. This is not a new provision.

With the new law, Slovakia denies citizens belonging to national and ethnic minorities equal access to public services. Not only are civil servants working in public administration not required to know the given minority languages, but t he supervising office can be specifically sanctioned for communicating in them. (Art. 8, ¶ 4)

--> This fictive construction about denying citizens' rights is based on the assumption that the members of national and ethnic minorities don't speak the Slovak language - state language. The author of this kind of argumentation should be reminded that the knowledge of the state language is not the citizen's option, bu the citizens responsibility. The second part of the last sentence is not true. The law doesn't enforce penalties for the use of minority languages. The law applies penalties in case if an interaction in the state language is not available. Additionally, the law doesn't regulate private conversations.

Members of the armed forces, police, firefighters, and other armed units must use the state language in “the performance of their duties.” (Art. 3, ¶ 2: Art. 6, ¶’s 1, 2) The possible complications to proper delivery of public health and safety services are staggering.

This is not true. The preference is logically given to the state language. That doesn't mean hovewer that the public figures would be somehow prevented from using another languages when engaged in a communication with foreign citizen. Either not speaking or choosing not to speak the slovak language.

Besides these, the article contains exaggerated stories, argumentative hyperboles and purposefully uses sources and the referrals.

vdx,
Ok, my friend, I accept that you are occasionally influenced by your emotions when formulating your posts. No problem. However it is advisable to remain as subjective as possible when discussing topics like this, and also allow me to reflect on some errors of yours, that could not be explained by heated emotions alone.

“how would you explain, that after 100 years, there have been only 18 000 slovak speakers left in Hungary? In the the country, which is round the corner, while in a distant Romania or Serbia the numbers of slovak speakers count much greater numbers?”
First of all, currently, only Vojvodina (a region of Serbia) has a sizable ethic Slovak population, some 60 000, outside the borders of current Slovakia. Romania definitely does not have more Slovaks than Hungary. Please, check your numbers!
Secondly, after WW2 there were more than 70 000 Slovaks in Hungary, but in 1947 there was a so called “Voluntary Population Exchange” between Czechoslovakia and Hungary. This exchange was the idea of your “great” Czechoslovak leaders after declaring all Hungarians collectively guilty in the Benes Decrees. I hope you can recall that, my friend, from your history book. Approximately 80% of Hungarian Slovaks were exchanged, and those remained account for the currently less than 20 000.
Please, check your numbers!
cont...

...
And if you are interested why the number of Hungarians is so high in Slovakia, please read some independent history books, such as -Margaret MacMillan: Six month that changed the world- and you will find out how Benes lied about the numbers of non Czech or Slovak nationalities living within the area he envisaged as Czechoslovakia when the borders were drawn after WW1. Shortly put, the borders were not redrawn on ethnic lines. Benes was greedy and sort sighted, it turned out later, especially when lying about the Germans in Sudetenland.

“Strangly enough, none of the minorities in Slovakia excluding hungarian, didn't express an objection against the law. “
Please, stop this propaganda crap. We both know that only the Hungarian community in Slovakia is sufficiently high in numbers to resist assimilation.

“So if I say that Hungarians happens to incline less towards learning another languages then I'm quite sure I'm not that far from the reality. “
Please my friend, stop your foolish crap again. Hope you do not want to say, that for example a Slovak person is very much inclined, because he knows Czech as a foreign language when asked in a survey, do you? Or a Polish, who can master Russian after a couple of weeks, thus shows favorable in the survey, is more inclined to learn foreign languages than a Hungarian. I repeatedly ask you to consult a linguist, because you are totally confused on this subject.

...
“Knut Vollebaek said that the law is in line with the international standards. “
My friend, I asked you to read the full text. Knut Vollebaek is a diplomat and his writings are diplomatic. Even if somebody is totally wrong, a diplomatic answer always starts with: You are right, but....
Similarly, the real message what Knut Vollebaek is really conveying is after the but. I know that the majority of people do not understand diplomatic text, so they can be easily deceived by nationalist-extremists who keep repeating only the first couple of words. Hope you do not belong to the easily deceived majority.

“Language law doesn't establish the supremacy of the Slovak language in Slovakia, because the unique position of the slovak language is already established and anchored in the 6th article of the Slovak Constitution. “
I am glad you recognized, that although the position (not supremacy) of the Slovak language is established in the constitution, its supremacy is only established in the language law, and this is a problem.
And one interesting thing. There is no other European country where the language of a 10% historical minority is not recognised as a state language. Meaning, it is itself strange that Slovakia has only one state language. Italian in Switzerland (6%), Swedish in Finnland (5%), etc. And before you mention: Russian in the Baltic states is a different story, the majority moved in after WW2.
cont...

...
“the knowledge of the state language is not the citizen's option, but the citizens responsibility. “
Can you recognise your hawkish attitude, my friend? You actually say that Slovak is superior to other languages of the same country. That is exactly the same problem with the language law.

“This is absurd. Ethnic Hungarians can refer to the capital ...”
“The documentation has been hold in the slovak language all along. This is not a new provision. “
“This is not true. The preference is ...”
“...these, the article contains exaggerated stories, ...”
You see, your interpretation differs from the interpretation of the article's author. A sentence from Knut Vollebaek came to my mind:
“There is no doubt that certain paragraphs in the legislation are unclear and can be interpreted in several ways.” And that is also a major problem with this law.

This VDX slot is just a Slotaist Agent LOL

NP-TR,
you continue giving me the recommendations on my subjectivity, while you yourself began this discussion with a statement, where you said that I denoted Hungarians as ugly people who have to opressed. Well, I'm not entirely convinced that such an assesment of my comment was a sign of objectivity either.
You also said, that I spread "slovak nationalist propaganda", while you actually happen to be on the site where some people openly promote extremism, post-war revisionism, unconditional hungarian patriotism etc. etc.. I don't know about such sites shouting to the outside world and on its neigbours in Slovakia.

To your comments,
"First of all, currently, only Vojvodina (a region of Serbia) has a sizable ethic Slovak population, some 60 000, outside the borders of current Slovakia. Romania definitely does not have more Slovaks than Hungary..."

Slovak population in Romania accounts for around 20 000. In Serbia, the population is around 60 000, which is three times the numbers declared in Hungary. The striking thing lies however somewhere else; in something, what you neglect.
In Romania and Serbia, Slovaks never lived in large numbers - 60 000 is not a big number. In Hungary, Slovak speakers counted much bigger numbers.

"...after WW2 there were more than 70 000 Slovaks in Hungary, but in 1947 there was a so called “Voluntary Population Exchange” between Czechoslovakia and Hungary... Approximately 80% of Hungarian Slovaks were exchanged, and those remained account for the currently less than 20 000... "

You did a nice math, but your counts are only a convenient construction. You can use the number - 70 000, only because it's a traceable number, which cannot be questioned. You should know, that the official number of Slovaks living in Hungary at a time didn't account for such a large population. The official number at a time was even smaller that 20 thousand Slovaks listed today.

"... you will find out how Benes lied about the numbers of non Czech or Slovak nationalities ..."

Ethnic groups in Hungary cannot be traced by simply looking at a nationality. They can be traced by looking at the population's affinity with different languages. Not only because of the pressure to which they were exposed in the afore years before WWII, but also because of their confusion lasting from the previous decades - the times of Hungarian Empire. During the Empire, ethnic groups weren't recongnisable, accountable were only non-Hungarians speaking this or that language. Later, even the bilingual speakers were relabeled as Hungarians after they learned hungarian language.

"And if you are interested why the number of Hungarians is so high in Slovakia, please read some independent history books, such as -Margaret MacMillan: Six month that changed the world ..."

You recommend me to read a 700-pages long novel of a british author. I recommend you to look at official hungarian statistics, especially at the counts of Slovak speakers since 1900.

"Please, stop this propaganda crap. We both know that only the Hungarian community in Slovakia is sufficiently high in numbers to resist assimilation."

What are they trying to resist? And tell me, how can be assimilated a community which has in every town and almost every village a school where the education is effectively led in hungarian? Aren't they btw trying to resist something else with their one-sided bottom orientation? E.g. their partitipation in the public life in the other parts of Slovakia, seeking opportunities in the places, where they could hardly have access without knowledge of Slovak language?

"And one interesting thing. There is no other European country where the language of a 10% historical minority is not recognised as a state language. Meaning, it is itself strange that Slovakia has only one state language. Italian in Switzerland (6%), Swedish in Finnland (5%), etc. And before you mention: Russian in the Baltic states is a different story, the majority moved in after WW2.

You're conveniently using cases, which fit into your box. Hungarian language has a position of official language in every municipality in Slovakia where hungarian population crosses 20% and you know that. Ukraine applies the same rule at a level of 40%. Germany, France, Britain, Italy, Spain use the same approach for minority communities in their countries, which in their absolute numbers often counts into millions. So stop provoking with these absurd claims worth of Miklos Duray and alike.

"My friend, I asked you to read the full text. Knut Vollebaek is a diplomat and his writings are diplomatic. Even if somebody is totally wrong, a diplomatic answer always starts with: You are right, but...."

Well. Thank you for the lesson from diplomacy. So, if I understand it right, the envoy of EU consented that the language law is minorities' discriminating - liquidating and belongs to the 18th century as Hungary testified from the beginning. But because the European Commitee inaccessibility of preventing such a legislation, the emmissary restricted himself to indirect tip-offs and suggestions.
Now, if you are acquainted with the situation then I'm sure you know that imposing of the penalties was postponed until more detailed explanatory instruction are be issued to provide more detailed explanation for those who have difficulties with understanding.
The fact is, that the provisions contained in this law are from the most part already present in a valid legislation and until now, there were no objections against them. Some of them were even submitted by SMK (e.g. to hold internal documentation in schools in slovak and hungarian as well was the request of SMK somewhen 10 years ago). The only important difference there, is that a surveillance has been added regarding some responsibilities which result from the law. So the question is, if the issue which is really problematic, is the law itself or just its execution.

"I am glad you recognized, that although the position (not supremacy) of the Slovak language is established in the constitution, its supremacy is only established in the language law, and this is a problem."
"Can you recognise your hawkish attitude, my friend? You actually say that Slovak is superior to other languages of the same country. That is exactly the same problem with the language law."

So perhaps you should explain what does a "supremacy" mean to you and what attributes would to assign to the language which has a "unique" position, because without that, understanding of you reasoning is really difficult. But at least you didn't try impugn the Slovak Constitution. That's a good sign.

"You see, your interpretation differs from the interpretation of the article's author.

What I pointed out are the obvious misstatements ripped out of context, not my subjective interpretation. Read the law in its whole please, refer to the references under the lines also, go back and read the Act on the minority languages from 1999. That should suffice for you to address the concrete contradictions.

vdx,
“So perhaps you should explain what does a "supremacy" mean to you ..”
With pleasure. If you are a minority, you can organise your conference, you can make public announcements, put up advertisements, air your radio program, etc. in your own language, but only if you repeat the same text in Slovak, prepare Slovak introduction, or render Slovak translation in case of radio program, etc. So the language law convey the overall message that the Slovak language is superior to other languages of the same country. Or do you think that, for instance, a company who puts up adverts in Hungarian purposefully hurts its own business interest by not rendering Slovak translation? Definitely not. There is no logical explanation so far, why the language law is applied in such cases. Perhaps you could help. Please read:
http://www.politics.hu/20091020/slovakian-authority-launches-investigation-over-language-law-violation
cont...

...
“Germany, France, Britain, Italy, Spain use the same approach for minority communities in their countries,... “
No, they do not. Please check their policy with historical minority ! Britain – Welsh, Spain – Catalan, etc. You would not hear a single word of complaint if Hungarians in Slovakia were given similar rights to those minorities', since Welsh, Catalan, etc. people enjoy even full autonomy above full language rights. And full language rights mean that for instance in Wales, you do not have to render English translation or English introduction, because English is not superior there. You said earlier:
“The visitors not speaking a minority language are then informed of the character of the event. Such an approach is a part of elementary politeness. “
No, my friend. It is not part of elementary politeness. At least not in the UK. I suspect that Slovaks have problems with something else than politeness. Especially, because a Slovak literature club meeting is not bound by law to make an introduction in the minority language in a minority area. You see, the “elementary politeness “ what you embrace, applies to minorities only by law. Discrimination? Surely it is.
cont...

...
“And tell me, how can be assimilated ..”
By restricting and penalizing minority language usage, launching harassment investigations while. Forbidding minority languages in municipalities with lower than 20%. etc.
What do you think of the following case:
“Slovak Post, whose top managers are nominated by the Slovak National Party, mailed a letter to all employees ordering them to use only Slovak in official contacts with customers. A few days later it mailed a second letter which included some exemptions permitting employees to use a different language in those localities where minority citizens exceed 20 percent of the population, the Sme daily reported. “
First, even the Slovak Post found the law unclear. Second, if a minority person happens to live in a less than 20% area, he is forbidden by law to communicate with the post officer in the minority language, even though the officer also happens to be a member of the given minority. This a grand scale discrimination and assimilation attempt.

“What I pointed out are the obvious misstatements ripped out of context, not my subjective interpretation. “
My friend, I read the law carefully, and I still uphold my opinion that your interpretation is subjective, because others interpret the law differently, and also independent experts say that the law amendment is unclear and can be interpreted in several ways.
cont...

...
“The only important difference there, is that a surveillance has been added regarding some responsibilities which result from the law. “
Really? Then it is now my turn to question whether you actually read the full text of the amendment.

“You recommend me to read a 700-pages long novel of a british author. “
The author is actually Canadian, but it does not matter. The importance is that it is no means a novel but a documentary or narrative history. Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia on the merits of the book :
“Referred to as a landmark work of narrative history, the book was first published in Britain. It has won the Duff Cooper Prize for an outstanding literary work in the field of history, biography or politics, the Hessell-Tiltman Prize for History, the most prestigious Samuel Johnson Prize for the best work of non-fiction published in the United Kingdom and the 2003 Governor General's Literary Award in Canada. “
Actually, I just asked you to read some history from independent sources, and avoid Slovak history books at all costs, especially those dealing with the history of central Europe.
cont...

...
“In Serbia, the population is around 60 000, which is three times the numbers declared in Hungary. “
That's right. And I have already explained to you why. And I can also tell you that those 60 thousands also lived in Hungary because Vojvodina was part of Hungary. It is also interesting to learn how the group of Slovak people was settled down in the 18th century in Vojvodina. Even Slovaks in Romania live in areas that were part of Hungary. So, you were right when you said the following :
“In Hungary, Slovak speakers counted much bigger “

“...while you actually happen to be on the site where some people openly promote extremism...”
True, but you are on this extremist site too. My opinion is, that even though one lives in a city where some extremists live too, it does not mean that one is also extremist or support extremism.

NP-TR,
"With pleasure. If you are a minority, you can organise your conference, you can make public announcements, put up advertisements, air your radio program, etc. in your own language, but only if you repeat the same text in Slovak, prepare Slovak introduction, or render Slovak translation in case of radio program, etc. So the language law convey the overall message that the Slovak language is superior to other languages of the same country..."

You roughly gave an illustration on what you consider a supremacy. By giving the allusions on the provisions from which, practically all have been in practice for years. Your presentation them as hard assimilation attempt is also just as ridiculous. If you don't know, what legislation has been in effect in Slovakia, then you can hardly adress such a thing. Obviously, reading of the dispute amendment is not sufficient in this regard.

What you omitted to say however, is a word on what attributes should a language with a unique postition possess. Or you simply omited that part.
In a private life, everybody has a righ to use whatever language he wants. In a public life, there is an identity of a country, an official language, which is effective over entire area of that country. The Hungarian language obviously holds this position in Hungary. You can call it superior position, if you want. ...

The country's right is to decide, whether it will grant for the similar position also to another languages and to what extent it will be. Slovakia grants this privilege to Hungarian language on a regional level, where hungarian language enjoys, with accordance to EU directives, the co-official status guaranteeing a minority an access to public services in respective language. The level is set to 20%, which is just fine with another international practice.

Next and very important contribution of the state language, is that it enables mutual interaction among population and also allows for the minorities to participate on a public life. Actions directed to prevent an interaction in the state language is the act of segregation and an attempt to create a community detached from the rest of the county. For the population speaking Slovak language in the respective areas, it's a discrimination.
You proclaimed at the beginning, that Hungarians are the founders of Slovak state. To become them the founders able to participate in public life, their knowledge of the state language is necessary. The trend in some part of south Slovakia however is, that lots of young people leaving hungarian minority schools have very miserable knowledge of the Slovak language.

"By restricting and penalizing minority language usage, launching harassment investigations while. Forbidding minority languages in municipalities with lower than 20%. etc."

Look, I repeat for you that no one is going to be panalized for using any language - the law regulates the use of the state language.
With regard to your "20% threshold" allusion. What you should realize and obviously don't, is that the respective provisions guaranteeing the interaction in minority language, include not only oral interaction with official autorities, but also written interaction. Meaning, a person has e.g. a righ to request and post the respective documents in its language. The level of 20% is more than generous is this case.

"What do you think of the following case:
“Slovak Post, whose top managers are nominated by the Slovak National Party, mailed a letter to all employees ordering them to use only Slovak in official contacts with customers. ..."

I have no need to comment the excesses of J. Slota and his company. Slovak ministry of communications already excused for this Slota's action. If Hungary hasn't been pursuing such a hostile policy towards Slovakia during the last 2 decades, the primitives like Slota would be the marginal figures without influence. ...

Eloquently enought, the chairman of the the party enjoying the ultimate popularity in Hungary, refer to to Slovakia routinely as to the "Felvidék" and other members of that party are known with the declarations of type: "Hungary neigbours with itself" or "Hungarian border ends in Poland".

"The author is actually Canadian, but it does not matter. The importance is that it is no means a novel but a documentary or narrative history. Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia on the merits of the book..."
"Actually, I just asked you to read some history from independent sources, and avoid Slovak history books at all costs, especially those dealing with the history of central Europe...
"That's right. And I have already explained to you why. And I can also tell you that those 60 thousands also lived in Hungary because Vojvodina was part of Hungary. ..."
... So, you were right when you said the following : “In Hungary, Slovak speakers counted much bigger “"

Look, I suggested you to search for official hungarian statistics and not to seek for the information from slovak books. Since you probably blacked-out that moment, let me provide you with a direct link to Hungarian Central Statistical Office and put into your attention the abundance of hungarian population, which has been declaring the Slovakian as its mother tongue in the early years of the 20th century:

http://www.nepszamlalas.hu/eng/volumes/18/tables/load1_28.html

...
You can find there, that from an ethnic group which had - according to official hungarian statistics, at the beginning of the 20th century, the third largest representation in Hungary - going into hundred thousands, became an ethnicum which has a negligible representation in Hungary today. Going farther you will see, that the numbers of slovak speakers went into even twice that numbers.

http://www.nepszamlalas.hu/eng/volumes/18/tables/load1_32.html

These are the numbers, I suggest you to study. To look at demographically impossible increases of hungarian population. On the droping figures of another ethnic groups. - Instead of twisting my words and fabricating more and more of your sensless counts.

vdx,
“Your presentation them as hard assimilation attempt is also just as ridiculous...“
By finding clear discriminatory steps against minorities acceptable, you have just demonstrated your nationalist-extremist view.

“If you don't know, what legislation has been in effect in Slovakia, then you can hardly adress such a thing. Obviously, reading of the dispute amendment is not sufficient ...”
It may not be sufficient for you, but it has already been sufficient for Slovak authorities to launch harassment investigations against minorities. I am sorry you are blind to realize that.

“In a private life, everybody has a righ to use whatever language he wants. In a public life, there is an identity of a country, an official language, which is effective over entire area of that country. ..”
You have just demonstrated your nationalist-extremist view again. You think that the “identity of the country” means only what the Slovak ethnic group thinks and wants, because they are the majority. Very dangerous way of thinking, I warn you. Such thinking led to the wars in former Yugoslavia.

“The country's right is to decide, whether it will grant for the similar position also to another languages and to what extent it will be. “
Extremist and dangerous thinking. Again, you think that only Slovak ethnic group deserves full rights. Actually, why do you deny that you are a supporter of Slota, when your every sentence proves otherwise?
cont...

...
“Next and very important contribution of the state language, is that it enables mutual interaction among population...”
Very wrong perception. “Mutual interaction” should never be forced by language law.

“...and also allows for the minorities to participate on a public life. “
On the contrary, the current language law just makes the life of minorities harder and encourages discrimination.

“Actions directed to prevent an interaction in the state language is the act of segregation “
On the contrary, penalizing minorities for using their language is called forced assimilation.

“If Hungary hasn't been pursuing such a hostile policy towards Slovakia during the last 2 decades ..”
What are you talking about? Are you paranoid?

“refer to to Slovakia routinely as to the "refer to to Slovakia routinely as to the "Felvidék" and other members of that party are known with the declarations of type: "Hungary neigbours with itself"...“
Why do you try to interfere with Hungarian traditions? You have no right for that. “Felvidék” is a traditional geopolitical name for an area that roughly covers current Slovakia. Traditions develop from history, and Hungary does have history, despite the denial of that by Slovak nationalists-extremists.
cont...

...
Political borders is one thing and ethnic distribution is an other. "Hungary neighbors with itself" is very much true in the ethnic sense. If you leave Hungary in almost any directions, you find yourself in Hungarian communities. What is you problem with that?

“Look, I suggested you to search for official hungarian statistics ... Since you probably blacked-out that moment, let me provide you with a direct link...“
Sorry to disappoint you, but I know these statistics for a long time. And I did not react to your nudging earlier because I wanted to be polite with you and hoped, that you wold think a bit and realize the stupidity of your own question. Since you have not, and you still keep pressing, hereby please find my honest answer.
I am sorry to say, my friend, but you have just demonstrated your inability to evaluate and understand statistical data and you think that it is my fault. No my friend, it is not. Hereby I encourage you to analize the data yourself, but before you embark upon, please do your studies of the affected area in the socio-economic, and political realm. And before you start accusing me of being unhelpful, I provide you with some keywords: shifting of frontlines and shifting of borders, change in data collection methodology, mass population relocations, deportations, effects of occupations, personal interests of people as an ethnic group, political volatility, etc.
cont...

...
Good luck in your endeavor. But please be careful, my harsh criticism will be swift, if you try to jump into any wild conclusions, like you did before saying:
“To look at demographically impossible increases of hungarian population. “
And, by the way, since you already deal with this subject, would you be so kind as analyzing the following data too:
According to the 1910 census conducted in the Kingdom of Hungary, there were 884,309 ethnic “Hungarians, constituting 30.2% of the population, in what is now Slovakia....In the 2001 census, by contrast, the percentage of ethnic Hungarians in Slovakia was 9.7%, a decrease of two thirds. “
Actually, I am not especially interested as to the causes of the decrease, because I have made my own research, I just ask you, because some Hungarian extremists already jumped into wild conclusions. Good luck again, and please notify me of you findings.

Pataki for US President!!!

NP-TR,
"By finding clear discriminatory steps against minorities acceptable, you have just demonstrated your nationalist-extremist view again."
"It may not be sufficient for you, but it has already been sufficient for Slovak authorities ..."

Well, perhaps you should make your facts straight at first, because you don't know what a legislation has been in affect in Slovakia. You simply believed what Hungarian media posted in front of you as a sensation and incredible news.
From what you mentioned earlier:
- radio and television bradcasting accompanied with Slovak translation: in effect since 1995 (subject to penalties)
- publicly announced messages accompanied with Slovak translation: in effect since 1995 (penalties don't apply)
- introduction of cultural and educational events also in Slovakian: in effect since 1995 (penalties don't apply)
Paradoxically, the new amendment abolishes the restriction concerning radio broadcasting completely and for television bradcasting imposes to accompany the programmes with Slovak subtitles only.

"You have just demonstrated your nationalist-extremist view again. You think that the “identity of the country” means only ..."
I don't have much to say to this. You know what? With your way of thinking you can directly mark all Slovaks as extremists because they will all think that the character of Slovakia is primarily determined by Slovak nation. That doesn't contradict the multi-ethnic character of the country.

"Such thinking led to the wars in former Yugoslavia."
In fact, the way of thinking you promote is suitable to one thing only. And i.e. the loss of contact of a minority with the rest of the population. And that's the thing which is really dangerous actually.

"What are you talking about? Are you paranoid?"
E.g. in 2004, V. Orban tried to condition the Slovakia's accession to EU with abolishing of Benes decrets. Some years later Hungary created the Forum of Hungarian Representatives of Carpathian Basin, which formally instituted a liaison with elected representatives of Slovak parliament. Hungary was indicated by some EU representatives that such an institution would constitute a serious obstacle of its accession should it be created earlier.

"Why do you try to interfere with Hungarian traditions? You have no right for that. “Felvidék” is a traditional geopolitical name ..."

“Felvidék” - in translation "Upper Ground" is instead of tradition rather a remnant of Hungarian imperialism. If Hungarian leaders are not able not recognize a controversy of such an expression, unable to distant themselves from it, then what games are they playing on the international field.

"If you leave Hungary in almost any directions, you find yourself in Hungarian communities ..."
That's all very nice and understandable, but that's not what corresponds to the layout of the maps which some of the members of Fidesz party exhibit on their cars - Hungarian Empire in its 19th century borders. So if they're such the advocates of abroad Hungarian communities, why won't they use some other maps which would reflect the layout of Hungarian communities living there in their real proportions? I repeat that prominent Hungarian leaders bear a chimera of Hungarian imperialism in their minds. And the Hungarian public as well.

"And I did not react to your nudging earlier because I wanted to be polite with you ...

I'm afraid that you earlier didn't explain anything, because I wasn't talking about Hungarian Empire in its previous borders, but about Hungary in its contemporary borders. Vojvodina is not part of Hungary. Thus your argument with Slovak and Romanian Slovaks loses its relevance. The statistics displayed on the site of central hungarian statistical office for the years 1900 and 1910 do not cover the area of Hungarian Empire too.

"Hereby I encourage you ..."
That's very nice, thank you. So I guess I will just hope that besides the figures from the times of utmost hungarian oppression, you included into your studies also the ethnical and educational policies in Hungarian Empire from the previous decades.

@vdx

I always wondered a professionally trained anti-Magyar like you
why on earth bother with us? They pay you by charcters writen? D)))

Slotakia have a National Socialist government. Natinal Socialist does
it ring a bell to anyone or all of you out taking crazy pills? No
matter how nicely you pack up your Slotaist propaganda your just
an another National Socialist that's all LOL... Btw. creating a
national identity on fear, revenge and minority complex is point
one very European, point two it will bring it's fruits to Slotakia
(without Hungarians doing anything) sooner than you'd think!

@robi:
Get a life, try to write coherent sentences in English or get out of here!

We are living in the EU in the 21st century not in some Hungarian Empire in the Middle Ages!

Wolfi,
thanks for the nice liberal advices on life. I'd be interested how
would you deal on any other language than English... nohow! And
not I'm the one who are at the wrong place, you are under .hu
domain and spreading lies and nonsenses slavic and jewish
propaganda about Hungary! Move to.com or .il or dot .sk and I
surely will not follow this shitpile there, but as long as you are
under Hungarian domain get used to, that most Hungarian just
plain hates you uninvited visitors and will defend from you what's
hours and trying to minimize the damage you make on the Nation!

Foolish nonsense above

vdx,
“..you don't know what a legislation has been in affect in Slovakia. You simply believed what Hungarian media posted in front of you ..”
Well, I do not know the law. If you say so, it may be so. But at least, I listen to the media, if you said so, and I know about the recent harassment cases launched on so called “language law violations”, you have not even heard about. So it appears, that as opposed to me, you neither know the law nor listen to the media.

“With your way of thinking you can directly mark all Slovaks as extremists because they will all think... “
No, they won't. Not all Slovaks are nationalist-extremists. That is my personal experience. I am sorry, that you are surrounded by anti-Hungarian extremists only.

“In fact, the way of thinking you promote is suitable to one thing only. And i.e. the loss of contact of a minority with the rest of the population. “
Please, look at Wales, or Catalonia, or Finland, etc. Did they loose contact with the rest of the population? Certainly not. So I do not even understand, what you are talking about.

“Orban tried to condition the Slovakia's accession to EU with abolishing of Benes decrets. “
If he did so, you should thank him for that. The Benes Decrees are, in effect, the reincarnation of the medieval doctrine of collective guilt meted out to certain ethic groups. It should not be allowed in modern Europe.
cont...

...
“Hungary created the Forum of Hungarian Representatives of Carpathian Basin... ”
Well done for Hungary. The cooperation of off-border ethnic groups with their mother country is welcomed and encouraged in Europe. Even if some Slovaks do not like that.

"“Felvidék” .. is instead of tradition rather a remnant of Hungarian imperialism. "
If, it means “Hungarian imperialism“ to you, then do not use it. It is simple. But, more importantly, please, also respect the rights of others to tradition, to whom it means a geopolitical area.

“...but that's not what corresponds to the layout of the maps which some of the members of Fidesz party exhibit on their cars “
Since all your objective claims in support of the language law has been refuted, now you try to drag me into the murky waters of subjectivity. I am sorry, my friend I wont go along. I dislike shadows and treachery. I am not really interested about car decorations, whether it is a mini-globe hanged from the inner mirror or a bumper sticker with “Globen Trotter” sign. I also advise you, to stay clear of private areas like that.

“Hungarian leaders bear a chimera of Hungarian imperialism in their minds. And the Hungarian public as well. “
Again your opinion based on subjectivity. I have already told, you won't be able to drag me down to that level.
cont...

...
“I wasn't talking about Hungarian Empire in its previous borders, but about Hungary in its contemporary borders. “
Again, your lacking history knowledge. There has never been such entity as Hungarian Empire.

“..your argument with Slovak and Romanian Slovaks loses its relevance. “
It seems you could not cope with your homework of analyzing statistics. Never mind, it is not as easy as you thought. At least you could not hold a grudge against me, since I was helpful and provided you with some keywords.

For me, the conversation with you was good for one thing. Now I am sure, that you are very well aware that the language law is discriminatory against minorities. And because you cannot justify its measures by sensible means, that is way you keep dragging into irrelevant subjects, such as, 100 years old statistics, bumper stickers, Benes Decrees, traditional Hungarian words, etc.
Is it any wonder I begin to suspect some mental disorder with you?

Hi,

interesting discussion, thanks for that. Personally most slovakians i have met have been totally sensible people and very likable as well. Indeed, i think the relationships typically are more or less as between most neighbors (e.g. France vs Germany, Sweden vs Norway etc). No news there.

I do thing that the slovakian commentator is bit ill-informed about the situation in baltic countries, and i am pretty sure in reality he cannot claim that russian minority in estonia is similar than hungarian in slovakia. Actually Estonia DOES recognize minorities (e.g. there is swedish speaking minority), based on long term existence.

However, there is one thing that still i find very unique indeed. I have never come across anywhere law that protects the majority language! As far as i know everywhere else the laws is intended to protect the rights of minorities, not the other way round. E.g. it would usual that there is obligation (possibly with penalties) to ensure that certain information is published in minority language (as e.g. in finland all laws, official documents etc HAVE TO be provided also in swedish). As far as i know only totalitarian states have been trying to do it other way round.

I am not sure did i understand correctly that it is not possible to have hungarian newspapers, radio stations or tv stations in Slovakia without slovakian translation? If that is the case, it is very unique indeed. It sounds so strange that most likely i misunderstood.

No ile, you read correctly.

NP-TR,
Well, I'm glad you've got your opinion then. You dragged me into this discussion, not me. I saw from the beginning, it could not ended other way. Allow me then for a last suggestion. Go and have a look in hungarian communities in Slovakia by ourself, if the reality really corresponds to that picture you read in the medias. It would be really great, if you would do yourself such a favor.

vdx,
if the reality really corresponds to that picture you read in the medias
You are mistaken, my friend, the discriminating language law is not the invention of media, but rather the creation of narrow-minded Slovak nationalist-extremists. The language law does not solve any problem, but on the contrary, makes problems worse.
As far as your last suggestion concerns, it is you, who need help, and it should be a medical one. Your anti-Hungarian phobia is clearly recognizable.

“Your anti-Hungarian phobia is clearly recognizable.”

Why should he be any different from most of the posters here who to top it off demand to be accepted as Hungarians?

Why should he be any different from most of the posters here who to top it off demand to be accepted as Hungarians?
Tom at November 3, 2009 12:21 PM
---
No, no, Tom.
You are the one who claimed that anyone can be Hungarian, given 3 criteria.
There was never a discussion on any approval process in this.
If anyone claims to be an Hungarian, according to these 3 criteria, he/she is an Hungarian.
Exactly like myself.

Hungary was carved up like a birthday cake. The knife? The Treaty of Trianon. Erdély belongs to Hungary.
The French were ultimately responsible for Hungary losing so much territory.
Hungary needs strong leaders, efficient government,
and for the people to stand up and be counted in protecting their language, traditions, and culture.
Talpra magyar, hí a haza !
Itt az idõ, most vagy soha !
Rabok legyünk, vagy szabadok ?
Ez a kérdés, válasszatok !
A magyarok istenére
Esküszünk,
Esküszünk, hogy rabok tovább
Nem leszünk !
Rise up, Magyar, the country calls!
It's 'now or never' what fate befalls...
Shall we live as slaves or free men?
That's the question - choose your `Amen'!
God of Hungarians,
we swear unto Thee,
We swear unto Thee - that slaves we shall
no longer be!

Trianon again ?

@Homeland: It was the Austrian-Hungarian Empire that was carved up - not "Hungary" ...

In this empire only a minority were Austrians (German speaking) and Hungarians - what used to be Greater Hungary had more than 50% people speaking other languages even according to the official census in 1910.

So the other side of the coin is:

Croats, Czech, Slovaks, Romanians and so on got their freedom from the Hungarian and Austrian oppressors...

What "is your take on that" ?

But now back to the 21st century:

Today's Hungarians have other problems - i just lent too friends/neighbours of mine 50.000 forints each, so they would not have their cars repossessed...

Quite agree with you Wolfi about the more pressing need to direct our attention to the current dire economic situation in Hungary.
Not so sure about your historical analysis, though.
But, as a scholar and a gentlemen, will leave those matters for another day and concentrate solely on
present-day issues.
Glad to hear you are helping your fellow man. Not many of you good people around. Good luck!

Houses and cars are not cheap and not everybody is able to buy it. However, loan was created to support different people in such situations.

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There was a bastard spammer
That I'd like to hit with a hammer,
The action I would not reverse
Because now I've written this verse.
In memory of a wretched dog
Whereupon I changed my mind
And smashed him with a log.
A warning to all the pirates
Should they attempt once more
To dock without paying the rates
(William Waterworth)

Although this may sound somewhat pretentious to
some, and although the kingdom of Hungary also had
its share of political misfortunes, I am convinced
that in the course of the many centuries of Magyar
pre-eminence in the Carpathian Basin there was
something that we can call Pax Hungarica. It was
this Pax Hungarica that guarded the unity, social
order, and nationality peace in the area from the
ninth to the nineteenth century. True, there were
many problems during those centuries. But most of
these problems, which today are often
characterized as manifestations of "Magyar
oppression" of the national minorities, stemmed
not so much from the dominance of the largely
Magyar Hungarian nobility over the various
nationalities of the Carpathian Basin, but rather
from the nature of the prevailing social and
economic conditions. The feudalistic and highly
stratified social system made the peasant masses -
-- irrespective of their nationality ---
economically and personally dependent upon the
nobility. This phenomenon, however, was not
limited to the lands of the Hungarian crown; it
was characteristic of the social development
throughout much of Central and Eastern Europe.
Within this area that encompassed the lands of the
so-called second serfdom, the peasants of medieval
and early modern Hungary were undoubtedly better
off than those of Russia Serbia and the Danubian
Principalities of Moldavia and Wallachia .

And this holds true even though the exploitation in
those lands was the result of the rule of a native
boyar class and not of an alien or nationally
distinct nobility.

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SZÉCHENYI PLAN
“The government unveiled last Wednesday its proposed model for a New Széchenyi Development Plan to boost Hungary’s economy and create jobs. EU and state funds to the tune of HUF 1 trillion (EUR 3.51 billion) will be pumped into SMEs by 2013, prime minister Viktor Orbán, economy minister György Matolcsi and national development minister Tamás Fellegi told entrepreneurs and journalists in the capital last Wednesday.”
(BT)
One million Jobs created in three years? Let’s have the details: WHERE?? WHEN?? HOW??
The small matter of corruption has to be dealt with first. There aren’t sufficiently trained professionals at the moment to carry the required reforms.
Byzantine business methods are a further hindrance to real progress being made.
The Széchenyi plan is a good idea. The reality is that, to get it implemented, and people
back into work, it is going to take an almighty effort from a large number of people across the
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Current attitudes have got to change – big time! Along with training methods and schooling .
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