The head of Hungary’s federation of Jewish organisations Mazsihisz, Peter Feldmajer, met the Council of Europe’s human rights commissioner, Thomas Hammarberg, on Tuesday and briefed him on what he called disturbing signs of racism and anti-Semitism in today’s Hungary.
Mazsihisz said in a statement to MTI that Feldmajer had told Hammarberg that, in the absence of a hate speech law in the country, racist and anti-Semitic expressions were being used in the public and political arena with impunity.
Recently Oszkar Molnar, a Fidesz MP and local mayor, was told by the Fidesz leadership that that all forms of anti-Semitism, discrimination and violence are intolerable in politics after Molnar told a local TV show: “Hungarian interests to global capital — Jewish capital if you like — which wants to devour the whole world, especially Hungary”.
The truth hurts so they want to ban it !
What about deputy leader of Mazsihisz and South Hungary leader, Klauz Istvan and his theft of a wallet from a petrol station? any comments regarding honesty and trustworthyness as wll as free speech?
@ Ricsi
I am sure you and I read articles with different views
I hope the Jewish people will be a bit more specific when it comes to lobbying Europe’s human rights commissioner, regarding the ” disturbing signs of racism and anti-Semitism in today’s Hungary.” – I would like to see the word “Roma” specified not just the term “anti-semitism”
They could also throw in the Slovak language laws that makes a mockery of Democracy and human rights.
Why are you surprised that Orban wants to distance his party from Molnar? The American Republicans want to distance themselves from the fringe elements of the party. Political parties who want to win don’t embrace “loose cannons” (I could give Canadian examples but let’s face it, no one would know what I am talking about)
Olga-Of course they will use the ‘Roma’ card,the oldest trick in the book,pretend to have empathy with another group so as to strengthen your own case.
As for the Slovak issue–totally agree.
@ Ricsi
I am sure you have heard of class action suits. The more examples, the stronger the case.
The tactic is not an example of Jewish conspiracy – honestly.
Have you ever figured out why the Jews of the world specifically picked out Hungary as their number one target to devour? If you have, please let me know
If you are of the opinion that we (Hungarians) are the “chosen people” I am simply going to agree with you. I never had any proof but I always suspected it. I did want to let the world know how I felt, unfortunately I could not back up my claim. Now, if I were Mr. Molnar….
I am kidding!!!!! No, this website has not driven me to insanity yet. Give me another month.
@olga: Ricsi’s beliefs are just what someone else has told him. He isn’t able to reason so he follows whichever crowd he is desperate to belong to. He thinks he is Hungarian, but can’t speak or read Hungarian past a few simple words or phrases. It’s kind of depressing (if you can suppress the laughter).
There have been a few summaries of the potted hodgepodge beliefs of Ricsi and the like. One of them from the weekend is: http://atv.hu/hircentrum/091011_ver_nelkul_nincs_megoldas__osmagyarok_a__ciganykerdesrol_.html
„A magyar a választott nép” (Hungarians are the chosen people) „Jézus magyar volt” (Jesus was Hungarian) „a zsidók kizsákmányolnak minket” (Jews have led us down a blind alley) „radikális politikai megoldásokra van szükség” (A radical political solution is needed).
Mix with neo-paganism, stir and serve. It’s the ősmagyar cocktail – deliciously bitter.
@Vandorloo
Truth hurts hey? your days are numbered you rats!
@Law: Thanks for your intelligent input Beju. Can always rely on you lot for some cogent and sustained discourse. How on earth are you lot going to govern when you can hardly articulate yourselves in any meaningful way. Oh, I forgot, you don’t have to think, you just follow. It isn’t for the power to reside with the people and government to be their agents and servants, no. The people are meant to do what they are told lead by their self chosen leaders.
@ Vandorlo;
” the people are meant to do as they are told” And this is not the motto that the present Government in Hungary go by? Did not the Communist go by this belief as well? So exactly, what is your point?
Law:
Welcome back! How was your visit with your friends?
@Vandorloo
Just look around what’s happening in Hungary and the world.
Our own government is a pack of philandering cheats, phony attacks, lying about expenditure, never a word of truth we can depend on. No matter what kind of outlandish thing they do, some “commission” covers it up. We don’t need any of their blue ribbon commissions, we need a good divorce lawyer.
What happens when the delusional “super socialist patriots” in our government go totally nuts on us as years of odd coincidences is beginning to prove to even the biggest dullards? What happens to keep one of their conspiracies from blowing up in their faces? First, word leaks out.
A few weeks later, anyone who says anything is called a “conspiracy nut.” Newspapers can’t carry stories once anyone says “conspiracy.” What does it cause? Simple. Give a group total power to do anything they want, no matter how brutal, how insane. Make them above the law. Show them that anything can be covered up, that the press will no longer look into anything and that “national security” can be used to classify evidence for decades, even centuries and we have opened the door to Commie barbarism.
@Law: I certainly don’t disagree that these lot have and continue to keep there hand in the till, liberally helping themselves to what they can. That is beyond doubt. Let’s face it, Hungary has yet to have a post 1989 government that served its people. It’s depressing.
Saying that, the alternative is not to relinquish responsibility to a group of leaders that will not outline their specific plans, nor those that aim to unite a horribly divided culture.
More than this someone need to put and end to the endless self pity. I would say learned helplessness, but for the fact too many people are comfortable with the victim culture.
So yes, the socialists have robbed the people blind, as did Fidesz, meanwhile SZDSZ have emptied the piggy banks of local governments.
Jobbik is not the answer simply because they have yet to have an opportunity to pick your pocket. They will.
Transparency, accountability and a willingness for the electorate to hold its politicians to account is what is needed.
The problem isn’t the government – the world over they are all thieving bastards -, the problem is the people.
@justasking
awsome thanks, my friends loved the place, especially hearing the real truth about what is happening in Hungary, i had the opportunity to show them where the riots of 2006 occurred also the alternative history of the Magyars, and they were so intrigued.
They also were on a boat cruise and said that their tour guide also mentioned that the current government were a pack of liars and the Hungarian history, gypsy crime has been built on lies, so the truth is getting out and spreading.
They will be watching with interest 23rd October 1956 commemorations.
Outside that we had a great time exploring the countryside, bars, restaurants,
castles, churches, skipped the synagogue! and attended the Palinka festival Buda castle. They said that Hungarian people are the warmest in the whole of Europe.
I see you have been a busy little vegemite!
@Vandorlo
People are not the problem! It’s the politicians! Jobbik are the only ones speaking out about the corruption and saying the truth! So they in my opinion have more democratic right to have a shot in being in parliament. Hungarians are the most tolerant people what I have seen and experienced.
Jobbik will release it’s policies in Mid January 2010, this is a strategic plan any serious political party has the right to do. Be patient! Your mob have caused so much havoc here in Hungary and globally, now it’s up to the Hungarians to claim their country back from these liers and cheats.
Jobbik have passion to lead the country back into recovery, this is what is missing here in Hungary positive ethical leadership.
@Justasking: You misunderstood. I was making the point that your party (but of course, you will never have to live under it as you are just one of the külföldre szakadt hazánklányai who like fairy stories in place of history), Jobbik, demands obedience but has yet to outline any policies by which they will lead. Aside for some general standard conservative/right statements about morals, flag worship etc…
The best weapon is against any modern government is the freedom of information act. Do you know one Hungarian who has actually exercised any of their powers. Powers they have now? Didn’t think so. Real government will only come when each and every individual takes it on themselves to demand that those who serve them (their MPs and civil service) remain obedient.
@Vandorloo
How can someone take this much punishment?? People of Hungary have suffered far too long, and you have the hide to blame it’s people? Jobbik have helped expose these vultures, while you sit there and mock Hungarians who are speaking the truth? Vandorloo please be real! You and your kind have been exposed and Jobbik are going to be in parliament, believe it not, it’s happening and you can’t deny the Facts.
@vandorloo
How does this make Hungarians feel? Its like we are all married to people we find really aren’t going to a job every day but heading off to a motel somewhere. One day, we follow them and see them coming out with a mysterious stranger. We confront them. They tell us that we made it all up.
Every Hungarian who chooses to believe the government when they yell out “conspiracy , fascist, racist ” is like the spouse being lied to. You can keep quiet and pretend to believe, living a marriage more lie than real or you can break up your family, maybe lose you home, your kids, because you can’t live a lie.
In some cases, it goes much further, its like we watched the whole thing through the motel window, hell, it is even as bad as if we kept a video tape. The corruption, the lied rigged elections and the financial bailout are just like this. We have it all, videos, stained sheets, the whole thing and seem to be enjoying the humiliation.
In this analogy, what are we telling the spouse? Are we saying that “boys or girls night out” can be sex in the back seat somewhere and we simply don’t care? What are we telling our government? Are we saying that they can go ahead, kill and arrest all of us if they want. No! No! Vandorloo people know the truth and are willing to vote for a better Hungary, Jobbik !
And your cheap shots at patriotic Hungarians like justasking is your typical attack and another example of your tactics which have continuously been exposed. “Szebb jövőt! ..
@ Vandorlo;
Today I am not in the mood to be attacked personally okay? I’ve got a cold, it snowed a shit load overnight and when I went out to shovel the driveway the light snow that was falling flattened my hair. I am not impressed with life right now.
Hello Zsuzsa,
You’ll be fine!
Hungary will be fine too!
But health and recovery don’t always come fast enough for the person (or nation) who is laid low!
Cheers!
@Law: Thanks for the allegory, it explained nothing.
The truth is Jobbik and the Gárda have absolutely no respect for the law of the Hungarian people, its constitution or the organs of government. They have never attempted to work with the Hungarian people only against. They do not respect or recognise the majority. They despise the majority and are simply waiting to rule over people rather than rule through the will of the people.
Your definition of a patriot is dubious too. How can a person who does not seek to represent the whole nation be a patriot? Jobbik only want support and represent those who follow their part line. They are aiming to drive the wedge ever deeper into an already riven society. That is patriotism.
I don’t make fun of justasking, she mocks herself. She has no idea how Hungarians react to outsiders. Ask a person from the Erdély about how welcoming metropolitan Hungarians are. Is it all blessed uniting with their lost brothers and sisters?
@Vandorloo
Jobbik have no respect for the liers who are in Government, that’s why their support has grown so rapidly, and this is without media support which is controlled by the establishment, it’s backfiring! I know your type haven’t any heart so you will never understand how Hungarians and truth seekers beat, while your kind are out to get, get and get at any uncivilized manor, see your kind are down right gutless and instead of uniting Hungarians pursue to split Hungarians outside our borders, for example justasking is a passionate Magyar where we should embrace not ridicule, your kind are on a mission to divide and rule at any cost, you have no face or spine. Also the Christian Erdely and Budapest Magyars have the heart to forgive and understand your tactics and agenda, see we are wising up to your tactics. So don’t assume your so called attempt spread lies is working, no chap they are working in our favor, remember the truth will set you free.. You are a stubborn soul!
@Law – Since Jobbik has not released any economic policy, you cannot say if they have something which works. You’ve asked us to be patient, and trust Jobbik.
How would you react if, in January, we discovered that Jobbik’s economic plan turned out to be weak? What would you, as a Jobbik supporter, do?
I’m really curious.
@CG
I’m a realist and truth seeker and if a party let’s me down I will not stand by liars, I’m confident that Jobbik have the people to turn around the country, no doubt there are provocateurs who have tried to infiltrate the party and try and divide it, Jobbik has exposed them so they have been true to their word ever since establishment, you have to remember we don’t live in a perfect world but at least the majority of people in Jobbik are singing the same song, Hungary for Hungarians, Better Hungary.
I have been close to some of these people and this party has been built from ground up from people volunteering there own time to campaign with no financial support from any corrupt business only donations from Hungarians who see that this party as clean, young and no communist rejects from the old regime. So be positive CG!
@CG
I’m curious how you can support a government that has lied, is corrupt and cheat Hungarians, tell me why?
@Law – you must have really misunderstood me. Why would I support the ruling party? I am not Hungarian.
I live with the conditions I see on the ground. I agree the ruling party is corrupt and has taken advantage of the Hungarian public over the years. But, I came here towards the end of the Fidesz years, and I found that it was the same then too.
I believe that Hungarians have to decide on the govt they want, and live with their decisions. If they decide on Jobbik, so be it. If there is something which I think makes bad policy, I would want to challenge it, but only to get people to examine and question it themselves to see if this is really what they understand and want. I’d do the same if was any other party, and encourage my students to challenge me likewise if I said something similar.
If you feel that you are a realist, then you must accept that it is possible for people with good intentions to sometimes get the wrong approach. I am not so confident about any successful economic plan from any party at this time, simply because I know it is so difficult to do. The possibility of making errors is very high, and the availability of realiable data to an external party (like jobbik) is likely to be poor. I helped do it for 3 countries without such limitations, and it wasn’t easy at all. Why do you exclude the possibility of error.
@ George;
I do not think that Law excludes the possibility of error, but who else is out there to vote for? Really, I’m not trying to be facetious. The attitude at present seems to be “better the devil you know”. For the sake of argument, lets just say that Jobbik is “real” meaning that they will not loose their heads once in power (not stealing/suddenly “loosing” moneyetc) they will unite the country (and I mean all of the people, not just some). Trying to turn the Hungarian mentality from “victim”, to being in “charge of their destiny”. Would you not agree, that if it was you that was about to loose all that “milk and honey” (that you have become accustomed to, hell that you think you are deserving of) you would stop at nothing to destroy that party?
I can honestly see how people would want to support Jobbik, especially when you look at the choices, the only other thing a person could do I suppose is not vote.
TO Law and justasking: I love to hear you and others speak supportively of Jobbik. I, too, want to believe in the possibility that Jobbik will turn the country around. But boy does this Party have bitter enemies, and powerful ones, too! If it genuinely means to dislodge the thieves and economic traitors, it is taking on much more than any Western-style political party even begins to contemplate. I am not much given to pessimism, but I do not see any hope of Jobbik’s being able to withstand the fury that will certainly be unleashed against it if it does manage to win enough electoral support to form the next government, or even to become a sizeable group in Parliament. Remember how the other EU member states (then only fourteen) fell upon Austria when Jörg Haider’s Freedom Party Party formed a coalition government with the People’s Party? My awful feeling is that they (and some new EU members) are limbering up to do exactly that to Hungary, should Jobbik do well in the next elections. I do rather desperately hope that you or others can tell me that my fears are groundless.
Did you know that Gusztav Zoltai prominent member
of MAZSIHISZ used to ‘serve’ in the communist
Hungarian Workers’ Militia (Munkasorseg), an armed
gang (unlike the Hungarian Guard which is not
militant and unarmed) of the Communist party who
terrorized many innocent civilians after 1956? And
how many others were out there who enjoyed the
benefits of the communist regime and found
themselves on top after the collapse of communism?
None of these people were questioned and accounted
for what they did during Communism. And nobody can
say that they ‘had to feed their family’ or they
did everything because they were ordered. During
the Nuremberg trials of nazi war criminals, the
above arguments were not accepted. Unfortunately,
many of the ‘Hungarian’ Jews (like Zoltai) totally
lost their credibility because of the
collaboration with the previous power elite that
turned its former political power to economic
clout. Now many Jews are very afraid in Hungary
and they have all the right to be afraid. If they
did something that was against Hungarian interests
they should be really afraid because they WILL go
to jail no matter who they are. The Hungarian
independent courts will decide. It is about time
that finally the criminals go to jail and honest
people run the country. That is how it is supposed
to be. I disagree with Szegedi Csanad in many
things, but I loved his speech in the Parliament
when he pointed out that there is no money because
the dear comrades stole it. Elections now!
@ Roamer1972;
Wow, have not heard from you in awhile, keep talking, I’m listening!
@ Vandorlo
Thanks so much for the Hungarian website regarding Jesus being Hungarian and Hungarians being the chosen people. I only understood 50% since it’s in Hungarian but I got the gist.
As the President of the Canadian chapter of the Flat Earth Society, I am so glad people like them exist. All I can say is “keep up the good work”
Anyway, a question to you and all the regular posters who live in Hungary:
Are the majority opinions on this website (I consider yours being in the minority) representative of Hungary’s opinions or did I simply get to a website like FOX news in the USA thus judging the country accordingly?
I have been reading all the new postings with my morning coffee and find them overwhelming. After watching FOX news I can turn to MSNBC but this is not option here.
I am also breathlessly waiting to find out why the Jews target Hungary as their Number 1 priority to “devour” – Any ideas? Should I be proud that my birthplace is Number 1?
@olga: The opinions of the anti-neo-liberal camp (I call them that since anyone who does agree with them on anything is a neo-liberal to them) are in no way representative of the majority of Hungarians. Saying that, I would say Hungarians, their emotional reaction to things, their call to action and their cultural ennui in the face of a need for action are all extreme. And I do mean extreme. Their expression of their beliefs is as far as it goes though. Hungarians shock, but they are in no way violent. A hardened skin head here couldn’t compete against an English middle-class school teacher for potential to riot and cause grievous bodily harm in their expression of social dissent against their government (as the Brits did in the poll-tax riots).
But the right here is far more vocal and far better organised than any other group. They have tons of websites, dedicated trolls willing to waste their and others time repeating inane statements wishing that ‘we would be so much happier if we could only embrace the enlightenment they have found’ etc…
Funny thing is though almost all of them are either non-Hungarian or live abroad. The one or two extreme Hungarians that do live here and contributed are silent now. And then there is the voice of well tempered reason Laszló, above it all. At least the blog is cathartic; as Ibsen put it:
“To live is to war with trolls in heart and soul. To write is to sit in judgment on oneself.”
@Vandorloo
I have to disagree with you again, what a surprise! My knowledge came from Hungarians!! who enlightened me, and the only extreme here in Hungary are your kind that silently sit back and make changes to our Human rights deteriorating Hungarians lives while supporting the minority of corrupt twats! whilst turning the other cheek to the corruption by Neo liberals.
You seriously contradict yourself all the way through these pages empathizing with the extreme corruption and coming out after by supporting them, you are the radical extreme not us, we are not violent as you mention, we are presenting the truth the best way we can because the mainstream media is in the hands of the Establishment of Neo Liberal Con artists. Oct 23 is around the corner and you will see how many true Hungarian supporters we have. Not rent a crowd Neo liberal which your mob are renowned for.
Van.,
“Funny thing is though almost all of them are either non-Hungarian or live abroad”
I’m reading Paul Krugman’s “the conscience of a liberal” at the moment (a nice little counterpoint to “Liberal Fascism”), and thinking to myself OMG, here’s a Nobel laureate economist seriously arguing that there’s “a vast right wing conspiracy”. It seems obvious to me that Greenberg and Krugman are both exponents of the paranoid style in American Politcs (if not agents of a Jewish plot to divide and conquer).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paranoid_Style_in_American_Politics
But this is something they share with many of the posters to this forum. Do you think that a paranoid style is also mainstrream part of Hungarian political discourse (its far from mainstream in the UK), or these posters are essentially framing Hungarian politics from a foreign perspective?
@Law: You are either misunderstanding, or misrepresenting, Vándorló’s fundamental line. He’s made it crystal clear over the years that he’s neither a cheerleader nor an apologist for any of the parties currently on offer in Hungary. Meanwhile, if not picking a “team” strikes you as unusual or deviant, consider that the low rate of turnout in Hungarian elections suggets he may be in the majority in not prefering one band of gangsters over another.
@ Vandorlo
Thank you for your response – I am going to hang on to your paragraph that I really want to believe: “The opinions of the anti-neo-liberal camp (I call them that since anyone who does agree with them on anything is a neo-liberal to them) are in no way representative of the majority of Hungarians.”)
As far as Laszlo Orszag’s postings are concerned, IMHO he is a “class act” and I have the utmost respect for his opinions. I am just hoping he was wrong about Hungary’s future; if he is correct , I don’t see the rainbow at the end of the long road ahead.
Like the old proverb :the more things change, the more they stay the same
@Erik
Now that is giving into the beast. I have seen Vandorloo around and can read between the lines and see how biased he is towards truth seekers, as for you who seems to also support Neo liberal agenda especially with the whole appearance of the RED site banners and that silly Soviet spy game with Lenin’s profile for month’s only recently removed. Never questioning or reporting the Neo liberal parties only a tad to seem to appear balanced journalism to the new comers to this country of Hungary.
No my traitor friend, you are another disgrace to Hungarians. Not once have I seen you mention the Nazi Hunters who are targeting innocent truth seekers that ask questions and are boxed into the category anti -semetic, which you well know is a load of shit! Most of the WW2 veterans are dead or in Nursing homes. Why don’t you have the spirit of truth Erik? Why can’t you listen to the voice of intuition? And admit that maybe your are fucking wrong with the circumstances and conditions you grew up in, is it so hard to change? Or you have no control over the serpent mind that has trapped you into the state of madness you promote..? Give it a go you mug!
Law, the red banner advertisements and admittedly silly Soviet spy game was a paid advertisement for the Statue Park you fucking numbnuts!
Hi Olga,
Perhaps you are confusing another poster with me. (There was an Orszagh László, posting here once.)
I have great faith in the intelligence and talents of our people. There will be gold at the end of the rainbow someday. I don’t think this is likey to happen soon enough to suit any of us. Hungarians will have to get sick and tired of stagnation, apathy and corruption, and then get busy as a nation. I don’t know when we are going to get to that point.
@ Frkas Laszlo
Istenem ! How could I confuse you with anyone? Never!
This is the paragraph I was referring to:
“About now or the near future, like the 2-5 year time frame you ask about- I am a total pessimist. It’s a pessimism so profound that I have been reluctant to broadcast it on this website, because I want to put constructive ideas into people heads, especially the youth. If I were to be as openly pessimistic as I feel right now, I would just be amplifying the hopelessness that I hear from so many of my compatriots on an almost daily basis.”
@ Farkasz Laszlo
As always, you were correct.
I meant YOU and typed “Orszag” So either way the admiration was for your opinions.
(Ignore posting by Pollyanna, never liked her)
I have no idea why I wrote “Orszag” Unless he posted under that name within the last month, I would not have had his name in my head.
Szevasz Everybody;
Yesturday, I did not feel like joining in conversations, to be quite honest, that I felt were quite depressing. I have finally had my fill of corruption that seems to go hand in hand with politics, sometimes it just gets too much, for it is happening EVERYWHERE! That being said, that did not stop me from reading and rereading some of the posts all over this site.
@ Vandor;
I do not know where exactly on this site, but you had said that you were impressed that a party had arrived (Jobbik), that finally admitted that there is “an elephant in the room” as well that they were asking hard questions that before parties never really asked . Although I do not agree with your “grouping” of all right leaning people on this site, calling you all a bunch of “neo -nazi liberals”. I personally hate when somebody tries to “label/pigeon hole” me, so I do not do it to others, I find it incredibly tacky. Yet,I do have a couple of questions. Can you see why there are people, getting caught up in the “magic” of a possible “real party for the people” as opposed to lip service, that has been really, what the Hungarian people have experienced thus far? I ask that you think about this, as opposed to immediately say that they are mentally imbalanced? Can you feel /understand the “passion/desperatoin” that is being generated and why it is happening? Where else can people turn to? Oh, do not get me wrong, I agree with you, that “people” should be “taught” to get involved
con’t
and by God doing their part by involving themselves more by asking questions and demanding answers from the elected officials and not letting them off the hook when the answer is vague.I listen to all that is being said and at the end of the day, everybody is saying the same thing…there has got to be a major shake-up in Hungary. I mean politically, mentally you name it. My question to you is, “Who will be able to do that?” I know, that it is going to be a up-hill battle, I get that, but who in your opinion will be able to achieve this and why?
@ Law;
I have the same passion as you and want what is only the best for Hungary. My question to you is:” In a desire for change, is it possible that a person can be lead by their heart and not their head?” I am not saying that you are, I”m asking, just like I asked Vandor, is it possible to see the other side? In my opinion, both sides have valid points; but, what is best for the country and her people, that is the question at the end of the day.
@ Laci;
What can I say, my dear voice of reason? I agree with you, does the country and it’s people desire the change? And are they willing to put their money where there mouth is?
I do not mean to offend anybody, yet I know I probably did and for that I am sorry. I ask only because I really care what happens to Hungary and quite frankly, I am scared. I know, because I not live in Hungary and am not “directly” involved that some would say that I am not effected per say,but I am.
@justasking
A bit about my background and experiencing how the global politics is in the west and Hungary. I haven’t experienced such an awakening until moving to Hungary, in the west whilst working and the lifestyle my life was numbed and blinded by the lies the establishment have spread around the world and how cunning the media and establishment control the majority of the masses.
Liberal market economy and global capitalism are twins, they are Competition based economy in other words, economy based on unregulated capital has gone bankrupt, in front of our very eyes that in the mean time, destroyed the social fabric of society; in the wake of destruction, one thing has remained for people, the possibility to sacrifice themselves on the altar of multinational corporations.
Culture is such a complex phenomenon that it cannot be locked into one convenient formula. One thing seems clear, we live in a time when an era is coming to an end, yet we have to persevere. Global capitalism and the related neo-liberal market economy, consumer society, the power of global capital and liberal democracy are coming to an end.
cont:
What direction the world will take is still uncertain. It is possible that a gigantic capital concentration will occur that eventually destroys itself, or power will stick it out, or a positive system correction will occur, but currently the most probable scenario is that humanity will continue on the fateful path towards its final destruction.
Economic growth produced enormous amount of profit but the beneficiaries have been a thin layer of multi-millionaires, as opposed to the rest of humanity that both physically and spiritually have been broken by the system, that pushed people to the edge of global revolt.
International reactions to this development have been two kinds: politicians, either stuck their heads in the sand or pretended an outrage; they organized conferences debating the appalling shape of the world and at the end, they concluded the debates with hedonistic festivities in luxurious hotel suites. Rather than tackling issues, like controlling global capital or suggesting ways to deal with the limits of increasing growth, they allowed the continuation of the current phase calling it sustainable.
The question might arise: why do we Hungarians have to care about the problems of the world when we have our own to deal with? The answer is simple: because the problems of the world affect us, perhaps more than we think if we don’t implement preventive measures–perhaps first among all nations.
The starting point has already been stated: global capitalism is running out of steam. In its place, a new structure emerges that has been based on networks of self-sustaining social and economic networks. In the future, locally managed strategies will gain momentum in food production, distribution, security and in the energy sector. Globalism will be replaced by locally based economy, but what will happen with the liberal market economy? Vona Gabor and Jobbik’s strategy is to help expose and manage Hungary out of the mess the Liberal market economy and global capitalism have created over the last century.
@ Dear Law;
I was hoping that you would not “lamb base” me for the question that I had posed to you. You have always been nothing but kind and gracious towards me and I thank-you for that. Like I said before, you were the first person on this site to extend a “hand in friendship” to me and that is the kind of stuff I do not forget. I appreciate your honesty and will respond to your comments alittle later after I have thought about them. Have a great day my friend and always be safe.
Zsuzsa
@justasking: I don’t know whether you do it deliberately or you are just analfabetas (able to read, but functionally illiterate). You are not alone, though coming from Canada your kind is not a prevalent as in Hungary, where the political parties exploit the illiterate masses to the full.
I am in no way ‘impressed’ with anything connected with Jobbik.
Since you are unable to follow an argument, let me help you join the dots. Jobbik didn’t admit to ‘an elephant in the room’ they are the elephant – a manifestation of as that is septic in Hungarian society. Something that needs to be lanced and treated before the puss bursts.
As to the ‘magic’ bollocks, you are of course being sarcastic. But of course, they don’t represent ‘the people’ in any meaningful sense, just some of the people, the people that agree to take an series of IOUs and promises from their leaders (some who aren’t even members of their party officially) that they can be trusted, whilst not giving any specific details. It is another party that tells you to follow rather than lead the way.
Racism, partisanship, intimidation, hate speech… these are not the things magic is made of. Unless of course you are a complete c*nt.
But all this is irrelevant to you for whom it will have not the slightest impact on your daily life, cossetted as you are across the Atlantic, safe and sound from the impact of your idiocy.
You are a fool justasking/Zsuzsa, not just figuratively. You really are a fool and an idiot.
@ Vandorlo:
You are one classy guy, any Mother would be proud to have you as their son.
@Elle: “I do not see any hope of Jobbik’s being able to withstand the fury… [Austrian coalition]“ They have a snowball’s chance in hell. I am still glad Jobbik and FPÖ keep pushing the bastards back though. They need to be pushed back. It will make their ships sink a little faster
@Sophist: “the paranoid style in American Politcs…” is a Hungarian import. Grove’s motto that ‘only the paranoid survive’ is pretty typically Hungarian “these posters are essentially framing Hungarian politics from a foreign perspective?” A nénikéd idegen, az a viharos éltű…
#Lócitrom: “a few summaries of the potted hodgepodge beliefs …” whereupon our demagogue bullshit artist links us to ATV, the mouthpiece of Hit Gyülekezete
@Sophist: Sounds like a good read, but a little too heavy for me. I’ll wait for the film.
Not sure it’s paranoia more that inverted scapegoat-ism – the tendency to feel self pity and feel you are being picked on and have the sins of others loaded on you. There is a picture in the Lady Lever Gallery (Cheshire, UK) called ‘The Scapegoat’ that always comes to mind – an expression of the standard quote from Leviticus. Could well be a depiction of how Hungarians and Hungarian society sees itself.
@Law: “…You seriously contradict yourself…” How stupid are you Law? I mean really, just how stupid? Imagine a ladder with ten rungs, on whihc rung would you imagine yourself compared to others in terms of intelligence, education, ability to follow an argument and form balanced opinions based on objective data?
@Erik: Exactly!
#Lócitrom, continued: ‘Faith Congregation:’ a raving mad sect of Christian Zionist (Pentecostal) zealots http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith_Church,_Hungary The ‘quotes’ on their website are complete fiction too. No Hungarian, nationalist or not, has ever said that we are a chosen people or Jesus was Hungarian. This crock has been fabricated out of whole cloth. It is pure, undiluted Zionist propaganda our good old Lócitrom is an echo chamber of. “Hungary has yet to have a post 1989 government that served its people…” Opposed to what, pre 1989 governments? “Jobbik, demands obedience but has yet to outline any policies by which they will lead…” Liar, liar pants on fire, again: their policies are clearly outlined on their website http://www.jobbik.hu/sites/jobbik.hu/down/Jobbik-program2009EP.pdf in a 56 page program. “Do you know one Hungarian who has actually exercised any of their powers. Powers they have now?” Another crock. If you’re unconnected, paying openly solicited bribes and fees while you’re running around in circles is as far as you will ever get in our super corrupt, byzantine labyrinth of a system. We, any society, is as corrupt as the political ideas, the philosophy, of their ruling class is out of step with reality and our society is very corrupt. And we’re a lot poorer than some other societies whose political elites live in a world of their own which makes things even worse.
@Vandorloo
I hit a nerve Hey? You pussy! You are so predictable, now you start the character assassination, next if it dosen’t work you will dial Nacsi Vadasz? Your mossad pussies?
@Justasking
This is how low these arseholes go, sorry for you to go through this but this is sadly the reality of how the Neo Liberals target truth seekers. Have a nice day.
@Pávaszem: Maybe you misunderstand what policies are. You keep peddling that program, but there is nothing in it. It outlines their general political orientation (sans vitriol), but nothing NOTHING specific. No costings, no definite programs, no timetable. Nothing you can keep them to. No details, nothing.
This is not a program: “Fontos összefüggés még, hogy a pénz- és profitközpontú szemlélettel szervesen együtt jár annak elkerülhetetlen „fátumkénti” kezelése, hogy a kapitalizmusban a gazdaság vezérelve a minél nagyobb profit realizálása, amelyet a költségek leszorításával lehet elérni. Ebből következően le kell nyomni a munkabéreket, minimalizálni kell a munkavállalókra, illetve általában az emberekre fordítandó költségeket… (pro)aktív szerepet kell betöltenie az emberközpontú gazdaság és társadalom kialakításában, amely szerepbe beletartozik a munkavállalók és a fogyasztók tömegeinek a nemzetközi tőke irányában kialakuló kiszolgáltatottsággal szembeni védelme.”
That is just the second tenet of Marxism reworded.
@Pávaszem: On the quotes, I knew there would be problems with ATV for you and others. I have in the past quoted from all your accepted sources and as I don’t really care to the source more than the content I don’t give a shit if you don’t like this coming from ATV. The quotes are illustrative of general current viewpoints that hold currency in Hungary. Over at what I presume is a more acceptable source for you Szent Korona Rádio: “”Nem hiszem, hogy a magyar «a» választott nép; de hiszem és vallom, hogy a magyar valamire választott nép… Hiszem és vallom, hogy Isten pazarló szeretete keresi a pazarló magyart” This is someone quoting from Kovács Gábor whose ideas you can see scattered throughout Hungarian (purportedly Catholic) websites. See http://szentkoronaradio.com/belfold/2009_01_14_olvasonktol-haromezer-forint for more or http://www.hagiosz.net/?q=book/export/html/415
But, I do agree that the quotes should have been written in single quotation marks in the article to make clear they were expressions of sentiment and general sayings, rather than direct quotes.
Hope you don’t mind if I don’t waste any more time digging out quotes and ideas you know full well hold sway in your circles.
If you have a specific objection I will take the time to follow it up and see how much truth there is in it.
all of this ‘liberal’, ‘conservative’, ‘neoliberal’, ‘neoconservative’, ‘Liberal’…and now ‘anti-neo-liberal’…ahh, I just can’t keep up with it all. How am I supposed to be part of a conspiracy if I can’t even work out which secret handshake I’m using today?
…I’m just ‘taking the piss’ a little, no-one take it seriously.
@anon600ad: Anti/pro-neoliberal-quasi-anarchist-equivocators like you are hardly helping things. Time we all took sides and made Law happy.
I used to try to take a side, but the fence kept shifting. Now I’m happier living in my own world. At least the voices in my head are easier to understand.
@ Anon;
I’d live in your head, at least your sane.
@ Law; I appreciate your response and understand what you mean when you say that “you experienced an awakening”. I can also understand how/why you follow the political party that you do. Again, thanks for putting yourself out there to answer the questioned that I posed to you.
@ Vandorlo;
Not that it matters to people with your type of personality; but, I think you are a pig. A pig that does not know as much as he thinks he does. The only way you can “win” an argument is to either yell louder or reduce to calling people various parts of human genitalia. You spend half your time responding to people, “No, you misunderstood”. Say what you want about Law, but comparing his responce and yours…he is more of a man then you will ever be.
@ justasking
I only hope that Law is as kind to me as he was to you and will answer my questions as well. (on another thread)
Please consult with him and figure out if Vandorlo is a pig or a rat – he cannot be both.
Well, maybe he can be – you know if one can be a “Christian” while spewing hate, I suppose being a pig and a rat at the same time could be viable
@Olga;
What do you want me to say? I have no problem fighting my own battles never have and never will. I will not “consult” with Law over this, because it is MY opinion and I will not get into the playground game of “sticks and stones…nadie, nadie, boo,boo”
As I have said before, Law has always been kind to me and my sarcasim (which truly is a low form of wit) is never directed towards HIM personally. So, if you phrased your question in such a way as not to get his back up and make him feel that he has to defend/explain his religion/religious beliefs…then I guarantee you he will ALWAYS answer in kind. I have not heard/seem him reject a question and refuse to answer it if posed in a repectful manner. There are some questions that I will never ask for they, in my opinion, are too personal: 1) What religion are you, 2) Please defend/explain why you follow that religion?
I honestly hate when people use God as a shield/for their own agenda. I do not feel that there is a place for God in politics, again…this IS MY OPINION.
To Olga and Vanderlo –
Great comments, keep up the good fight!
Obviously those like Law and Ricsi and JustAsking are on the wrong side of history like their heroes the Nazis. I hope that one day we can hold people like these’s feet to the fire and make them relive the shame of these comments over and over for the rest of their lives in Public (not hiding behind the anonymity of these postings).
If there was/is a way to do this, in a few years when all this blows over and the world is slightly more open and humane and democratic and the haters swept into the closet (where they lurked since WWII), then would be the perfect time to repeatedly air out the ugly ugly thoughts these people have been spreading in the shadows for years.
I for one can’t WAIT to dig up these posts and out the ‘real names’ of these people and remind their children and/or grandchildren what RACISTS their family is/was, YEARS in the future. Remember the internet is forever and the stupidity of youth is short-lived (hopefully).
So, Ricsi we know who YOU are (Ivanov Janko – http://www.facebook.com/japijanko), let’s see if the others are brave enough to share their opinions without the subterfuge and the Malta Conspiracy sites (vivamalta.org) etc.
We will make sure your children and your children’s children hear the hate you spew for many years to come. No one ELSE will hear, but we will remind you and those you love! Keep up the great work of stoking racism!
@ American;
You show me where I have ever “spewed” hatred on this sight or on any other.
@american and vandorlo:
Thanks for your ideas and remarks, at least there are a few sane people on this forum
@justasking:
Of course, calling someone a pig or a rat is not spewing hate in your sick mind – it is quite normal amongst your people obviously
@ Wolfi;
That is what you call “spewing” hate… me calling Vandor a pig? So what was Vandor doing when he called me a “c*nt”? Son of a bitch, you are one dumbass door knob. Teacher my ass!
@justasking: I didn’t call you a c*nt, I said that anyone who ‘engages in hate speech, racist, encourages violence against others, is antisemitic’ etc… is a c*nt. If you engage and support those activities and behaviours then, yes, you are a c*nt. Otherwise the epithet would not be appropriate.
Please try to follow an argument. It make discourse tiresome.
@ American
Appreciate your comment
About your statement : “when all this blows over and the world is slightly more open and humane and democratic and the haters swept into the closet ”
Do you really believe this is going to happen? I want to believe it but the evidence points the other way.
Finally after hundreds of years of foreign oppression, Hungary is considered a Democratic country – What kind of a Democracy gives “air-time” to the Gabor Vonas of this world? – Unless of course by Hungarian standards, Canada is not a Democratic country.
We have lots of problems, poor economy, child poverty, plenty of dishonest power hungry politicans but honestly, a Gabor Vona would not be taken seriously. His only “air-time” would consist of being dismissed by mainstream media as a hate-monger.
I am sure I could find a Vona equivalent in Canada but I’d have to actively search for him the same way I would have to search for a Communist Party supporter. They must exist but they simply don’t have voices that reach the average Canadian’s ears.
@ American
My apologies
I did not mean to write: “Unless of course by Hungarian standards, Canada is not a Democratic country. ”
What I wanted to write was: ” Unless of course by
Hungarian JOBBIK standards, Canada is not a Democratic country”
Mea Culpa
The post by ‘American’ made me very uncomfortable, if for no other reason than that the way it was written was very much in the same style as those written by posters that he/she is attacking. I don’t really see how this solves anything. Instead, I would suggest that it really demonstrates the very hypocrisy that I was discussing with Olga. I would also suggest that as can be seen by my discussions with justasking, Law and Farkas Laszlo, that it is possible to have ‘real’ discussion without resorting to ‘cyber-terror tactics’. Threatening to reveal (and actually doing it) people’s names is wholly inappropriate and unnecessary. Some years ago I had the unfortunate experience of being ‘stalked’. Reasoning didn’t help, threatening made it worse and legal avenues proved fruitless. In the end, as my friend and research supervisor suggested, I just learned to control my emotional reactions and determined not to react to the provocation. Eventually, the harassment stopped and the individual moved on. By reacting in such extreme ways, it only inflames the situation feeds attention seeking behaviour and gives those with extremist views justification for their claim that others are out to get them.
I think it’s naive to think that their will be an age where the ‘world is slightly more open and humane and democratic’…in fact, posts like that kind of show that it isn’t likely anytime soon.I say engage and reason with the ones who can be reasoned with and ignore the ones who can’t.
@Lócitrom: “You keep peddling that program…” Don’t be so boring, Loo, debate me for a change instead of making up stuff, attributing it to me and then arguing with your own fiction. I have nothing to do with the voodoo dolls you create to stick needles in in lieu of dialog. ( Kuglibábuként felállított ellenségeidet démoni tulajdonságokkal ruházod fel?
) “NOTHING specific” Like who is specific. And even if anyone were who has ever done what they’ve said or who would believe what politicians say anyway? You, maybe. Don’t you know that the public part of politics is just show business and common folk like us are only allowed to participate as spectators? Jobbik puts on a good show though… They vocalize what after all the heavy duty brainwashing, physical and psychological intimidation most Hungarians still understand to be true but are afraid to say. They seem to be outsiders, opposing our political caste of hacks and whores that spout the same old increasingly unbelievable narrative while our lives go to hell in a handbasket. There is no left and right and no one trusts the politicians, their media and their institutions any more. There is just you people who trust the powers that be as little as we do but still believe their ideas (a lot like the commies believed that ‘communism didn’t work because it has never been tried’) and us who reject both.
Hello anon and Vándorló,
Re: yesterday.
I am not blind to what has been going on around here; I’ve been around here for 2 years. The tone and temper of this site varies, but I know all too well how certain problems arise.
We feed the problem by directly addressing and engaging with certain people. Anon’s experience with the stalker is a good example; you feed a problem by giving it attention. I have avoided personal confrontationalism myself, and I believe it has served me well. It is hard for many others to do. When they see an example of what they consider objectionable speech, they confront it directly, and instead of the other person backing down, you get an escalating insult match. I’ve seen it many times. What we see as hate speech is best left to itself. What say you?
Given that there is no moderation by the website owner, this is a total free speech zone. That means almost nobody is likely to be barred from participation. I’ve compared our situation to those put by fate into a lifeboat together. We are stuck with one another as long as we are active aprticipants, and so we need to get along.
@Lócitrom, cont.: “That is just the second tenet of Marxism reworded…” 2nd tenet? WTF are you talking about? It’s what Marxism copied from Christianity… “I knew there would be problems with ATV for you and others…” You did? Just because they are clinically insane zealots? No… And who would be the ‘others?’ My fellow waycists? “I have in the past quoted from all your accepted sources” You did? Really? And what do those persistent little voices tell you my ‘accepted sources’ are? “illustrative of general current viewpoints that hold currency in Hungary” In your head perhaps. Especially when you stop taking your medication… Are you a member of Hit gyülekezete too? Do you speak in tongues, handle snakes and such? “Szent Korona Rádió…” Szíriusziaknak csúfoljuk őket: tudod miért? We take these people as seriously as UFO cults and they are about as harmless too but we also feel sorry for them unlike you and the people whose ass you so frenetically kiss day and night and we certainly don’t use them like you scumbags do. “But, I do agree that the quotes should have been written in single quotation marks…” Single quotation marks are not used in Hungarian. “to make clear they were expressions of sentiment and general sayings, rather than direct quotes”
)) Another tall pile of shit… You’re unbelievable!
@Lócitrom, continued: “Hope you don’t mind if I don’t waste any more time digging out quotes and ideas you know full well hold sway in your circles…” Only if you don’t mind if I don’t dig up the ideas of your circles http://bentonparkmedia.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/this-is-england.jpg “Lócitrom@justasking: You have never actually responded to any of the questions I have put to you, nor to the factual material I have listed…” You’re actually talking to your voodoo dolls now, right? As for ‘factual material…’ (I am laughing so hard I might swallow the keyboard…) do you mean ATV/Hit gyülekezete or Cecil Adams ‘the world’s smartest human?’ I could read your BS forever, horsie. This is funny stuff! Have you considered becoming a stand up comic?
@Olga: “figure out if Vandorlo is a pig or a rat – he cannot be both…” He is actually a horse. I looked it up in the dictionary: ‘vándor’ means migrant and ‘ló’ means horse… Any good horse burger recipes, Farkas?
Kedves Páva,
Re: Horseburgers. I’m sure it’s been tried! Fowl is more to my taste!
Laci
@Pávaszem: For decent recipes look up 桜肉 (sakuraniku, literally ‘cherry blossom meat’). Burger is バーガー The Japanese consider horse-meat a delicacy, so I doubt you’ll find them wasting it on burgers.
Perhaps have a word with the people over at chew.hu.
p.s. I may get back to you on all the other ADHD (implicit apologies to anon600ad) fueled bollocks you spouted.
thanks Van…nice to know I made an impression.
@ anon600ad
Remember we were writing that mental illness is nothing to make light of or use the term loosely? I agree. Moreover, I do no think that anyone who posts around here is mentally ill as defined by a Psychiatric text book.
About 10 years ago, I was very actively involved with campaigning for a high profile Liberal Politician who was a Member of Parliament. I was on his Executive team (volunteer job, long evening and weekend hours, no pay) Among my “duties” I answered questions from constituents and potential voters.
Received a call from a woman stating the RCMP was stealing her mail, breaking into her computer and every day there were 7-8 RCMP vehicles outside her home with bugging devices. She asked me to take down the licence plates and have the MP “call off the spy mission” She called every day to give me different licence plates because the “RCMP changed vehicles” to fool her.
The point of this story is that you do not have to suffer from a mental illness in order to come to a conclusion to support your premises. I remember thinking “The fact the licence plates are different every day, would her mind not be put at ease and conclude they are not RCMP vehicles?” Of course not because she reached her conclusion and lined up the premises to fit her agenda.
Now back to hate mongers and conspiracy theorists
on this website and all over the world. Does it not prove that you do not have to be mentally ill yet engage in the exact same tactics?
@Olga: There are three things that your observations bring to mind:
1. What is being called ‘Gang Stalking’.
2. The mind control techniques used by sects, special interest groups and political parties.
3. Real mental illness.
The latter is by far the hardest to characterise since feelings of persecution, being followed and observed could be symptoms of lots of distinct mental conditions. Often this is put down to a form of schizophrenia, but the term has always covered a multitude of sins. I described a personal experience I had myself when living in Szombathely back in the early 1990′s some years ago on the Caboodle forums (May 3rd 2006 around 04h00): http://www.caboodle.hu/nc/forums/browse/single_thread/category/main_category/conference/open_a_thread_of_your_own/thread/email_provider_abuse/ (cut and past the link into the browser bar)
Some of the case histories of people who claim they are being ‘gang stalked’ strike me as simple paranoia, others less so.
For the ‘mind control’ techniques I’d recommend this short educational video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnNSe5XYp6E&feature=fvw
Listening to Law, Ricsi, justasking etc… they have clearly been duped using these tactics. Poor sots.
@ Vandorlo
Thanks for the links – will definitely check them out . Unfortunately, I am stuck on a spreadsheet and can’t figure it out – hate computers ( Did you know Software was invented for the sole reason of pissing me off? I have proof )
I am one of those people who believe that just about evereyone is influenced more by “nurture” than “nature”
I have no doubt that Pavaszem, Law, Ricsi et al were adorable loving babies and then something went drastically wrong
Anyone wondering if Ricsi has or hasn’t broken the law with his various holocaust-denials and threats on various minorities need do only two things — go to http://www.vivamalta.org and search “RICSI”.
directed against a group of persons or a member of such a group defined by reference to race, colour, religion, descent or national or ethnic origin, and
Then read the following (sorry it’ll be cut off) re: EU LAW –
European Union Directive for Combating Racism and Xenophobia (2007)
The text establishes that the following intentional conduct will be punishable in all EU Member States:
- Publicly inciting to violence or hatred , even by dissemination or distribution of tracts, pictures or other material, directed against a group of persons or a member of such a group defined by reference to race, colour, religion, descent or national or ethnic origin.
- Publicly condoning, denying or grossly trivialising
- crimes of genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes as defined in the Statute of the International Criminal Court (Articles 6, 7 and
- crimes defined by the Tribunal of Nuremberg (Article 6 of the Charter of the International Military Tribunal, London Agreement of 1945) directed against a group of persons or a member of such a group defined by reference to race, colour, religion, descent or national or ethnic origin.
Member States may choose to punish only conduct which is either carried out in a manner likely to disturb public order or which is threa
Hey Ricsi, if you are considering having law enforcement help you pursue your pursuers, I recommend you read the above post before you get started.
Even if you try and delete your voluminous archive of holocaust denying/race-baiting/threats on http://www.vivamalta.org before you contact law enforcement it will be too late because they were notified yesterday and I imagine have already archived your relevant threats.
So please DO try and push your case through. I’m sure that they will be completely sympathetic to your law-breaking as you point your fingers…
Maybe now that you’ve had a taste of your own medicine (not me but I like somebody’s moxie!) maybe you see how it feels and will pipe down now for a lifetime and settle back into loving your fellow man. Hm?
@To whom it may concern: If people want to archive a complete website for the sake of dispute over the content the easiest way is using the simple linux command (use cygwin if you are a Microsoft patient) ‘wget’.
A useful set of parameters to use that will archive a website recursively, checking that it is updating previously downloaded pages that have been updated since and adding a ‘.html’ onto any page (so any .jsp .asp .php etc… also work) is the following:
wget -rFEc http://www.websitetobearchived.com
Do not use this often!! This is not the webmasters friend. But you will have a complete copy of the material in question.
Obviously webmasters can block this command using the usual procedures (and if they don’t know what these are, sack them!!).
I love Vanderlo!
Thanks for the interesting information Vándorló! you seem pretty computer savvy!
I had another website lose a lot of my contributed content due to a screw up. Would such a command be helpful for retrieval of lost content?
Vandorlo – Thanks for the video, very amusing and enlightening. There seems to be a lot of this going around…and I don’t just mean on these sites.
@Farkas László: Unfortunately, unless either you or they have backed it up (or previously saved it) then there is often no way to recover this. For professional websites most content will be stored in databases and files that are backed up at least each day. There have occasionally been cases were even in this case large scale ‘professional’ websites have lost a lot of content (always due to human failure, rather than computers).
You could use this command to provide your own backup of a website, but if this is an enormous site then this is often not feasible.
There are two places to look for any content that may be lost:
1. The way back machine: http://www.archive.org/index.php
2. Google archives (or other search engines
For this second method try limiting the search to the website of interest by adding ‘site:’ before the name. So so search this site only for comments by you I would use:
site:politics.hu “Farkas László”
I put your name in quotes to make sure that other Lászlós are excluded. Then you can search for specific things you have written about films just add that to the search
site:politics.hu “Farkas László” films
And so on. To exclude a word use a minus sign, to search on similar terms use ~
site:politics.hu “Farkas László” ~films -cartoon
Hope that the google archives may still have some of your content.
Look up “Google cheatsheet” for even more complex search.
Thanks for the awesome response Vándorló! You are very knowledgeable about computers. I will save this thread as a resource.
I like it when when be bring some individual expertise to this website.
In the future you can call me Laci if you like.
@ Vandorlo
Went to the website on caboodle.hu you referenced. The only posting I actually understood was your May 3rd 2006 2.33 p.m. posting about “Mr. Enigma” – fascinating story. I see how it relates to my story about the woman who thought she was spied on. (The rest was computer stuff and way beyond me)
Also checked out YouTube. – Who do you think is the target audience? – The obvious is a Jim Jones and other wannabe cult leaders.
Then I wondered if it’s aimed at kids who have been curious about a cult but have not joined yet. Kind of like kids who have killed someone through drunk driving and after serving their sentence are going to schools and warning others about the dangers of drinking and driving.
It could also be aimed at professionals who really want to understand the head games and use it as one of many tools for deprogramming.
Don’t understand how the caboodle.hu website showed today’s date and then the postings below were dated 2006 ?
I am about to scroll over you name and look at your website – if it has a “contact” I’ll email you.
Thanks for the truly fascinating postings you come up with.
Oh Van! You have enlightened me, will you be my leader?
hehe.Sorry, the video just had me entranced. Actually, it made me shudder to realise just how true that stuff is…it really does happen like that.As to your three categories, I could agree with that. The term ‘mental illness’ is just so problematic for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the question of who is actually qualified to make judgements on this, and how much of our knowledge is actually influenced by social perception. Then there is the problem of determining what is a ‘condition’ as opposed to a ‘disorder’, and to what degree a person’s functioning has to be affected before it becomes either one. Statistics of mental health incidence rates are highly problematic, so I generally avoid them; and have subsequently chosen qualitative methods for my research rather than quantitative…(that and statistics makes me ‘crazy’) Schizophrenia is the ‘king’ of all mental illnesses and one which also has horrendously high misdiagnosis rates. I have a really good quote to share, although it is a bit long…see next post.
From: Sue, D., Sue, D., and Sue, S., 1994, Understanding Abnormal Behaviour, Houghton Mifflin, Boston
The value of a diagnostic system such as DSM-IV depends on its consistent and appropriate use. Unfortunately, clinicians often do not follow classification guidelines. At a time when DSM-III criteria should have been applied, 301 psychiatrists were asked to ‘describe the clinical findings that would lead you to a diagnosis of schizophrenia’ (Lipkowits & Idupuganti, 1983). Only one respondent listed all findings necessary for such a diagnosis (symptoms, deterioration, six months’ duration, and absence of major organic or affective disorder). Of further interest is that 49% said that they used only one diagnostic criterion, and some used idiosyncratic criteria that are obviously not in any of the accepted classification systems, such as the following: The “smell of schizophrenia”, Patient “doesn’t add up”, “Poor ego functions or boundaries”, “Poor eye contact”, “Rapid mood swings”, “Excess Religiosity”.
Categorisations of mental illness are not stable or consistent, hence the rise in ‘novel’ diagnoses like borderline personality disorder, which although being a justifiable category in terms of extreme cases, is often used as a ‘basket case’ category for people who just don’t fit. Diagnoses themselves change a lot over time too, as can be seen in quite marked difference between editions of the DSM. It shocked me a bit when I was in Hungary to find out that psychiatrists there are still using the DSM III, and falling into the very trap that the quote I previously posted talks about. Mental illness is relative. (not meant to be a pun, but it could be) The degree to which someone can be judged mentally ill depends on their surrounding culture, and community expectations…this is complicated if you extend to the global community, where estimations of what ‘crazy’ is are very much debatable. If anyone is interested in a good book on the subject, I recommend Kleinman, A., and Good, B., 1985, Culture and Depression: Studies in the Anthropology and Cross-Cultural Psychiatry of Affect and Disorder, Berkeley: University of California Press.
Finally, something that a lot of people seem to miss is that with all of its faults, something the DSM does do that I think is right, is that it makes the point that a diagnosis cannot be supported just on the basis of single criteria. Paranoia is not uncommon, and as your example showed from ‘Mr Enigma’ is actually sometimes warranted…as the saying goes “Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not after you.” Just because someone holds opinions that we can’t possibly understand or justify in our own minds does not make them mentally ill. What I am greatly concerned about is the overuse of medications in ‘curing’ behaviours which may actually have a good reason for existing. In Hungary’s case, I see a lot of people on antipsychotics and antidepressants, who really are in a great deal of emotional distress and rather than needing to be dosed out of their brains, need some community support. Sadly, with the state Hungary is in, this is often lacking.
…will write more in a bit, but I have to go out for a while.
@Cináed
What an amazing read on mental illness, and as you say so many misdiagnoses can and are made because of the cultural differences. Looking forward to part 2.
I like your name Cináed , that is so Fiery.
Cináed was the Gaelic name of the 9th-century Kenneth MacAlpin, first king of the Picts and the Scots.
The first historical people there, recognized by today’s scholars, may be the Picts. Originally, they came from Scythia in the third century A.D, a rather recent event. Their king, Sodrik, died in battle, while attempting to occupy land on the British Isles. Susan Tomory writes a few articles about the Picts history and legends. Their origins are close to the Huns.
As a follow up…victim blaming is a particularly bad habit and sadly another one of those things that comes ‘naturally’. It really can be frustrating and even exasperating dealing with someone who just can’t see how their behaviour could be a problem, but reacting in anger and punishment only drives people further from recovery.What a lot of people don’t realise is that much behaviour rather logically, results from ‘conditioning’ and/or as a response to traumatic experiences.A rather confronting example of this is self-harm, which is often written off as being ‘attention seeking behaviour’; a common misconception. In my opinion, self-harm is a relative response to emotional distress.Where an individual has been routinely punished or spoken to harshly, the tendency toward self-harming behaviour is increased, along with a growing sense of self-hatred.I think there is strong evidence for this in Hungary.Where years of frustration, fear and the abuse of especially the communists ‘trained’ the people into the cycle of abuse, it is now very hard for them to break out of it.Once that cycle is in operation, it is really hard to break out of. Far from just pointing out the problems that exist within Hungary, however, I will now move on to discuss the international context…
It seems sometimes that Hungary just goes from bad to worse, and that the things Hungarians do to each other just makes the problems worse. eg: the great Hungarian train strikes. (oh, ‘fond’ memories) As a response, there is no shortage of chastisement and ‘punishment’. I know from working with individuals, however, that harsh treatment only deepens the negative feelings and perceptions.Some years ago, I worked with students who had ‘learning difficulties’. Somehow I got a reputation for having success with the ‘basket cases’ (perhaps it takes one to know one), but what I found was that the majority of students with the biggest educational problems were not ‘stupid’ or ‘retarded’. Most of them had problems at home, or in their relationships with other students. Often I would just put the books aside and ask them if they wanted to talk.Sometimes they said things that were inappropriate, but I learned that reacting negatively just made it worse.I learned the value of becoming an ally in achieving positive goals, while challenging negative behaviour with consistency, while treating the student as an equal.Now I’m not trying to put Hungarians down, on the contrary, I’m suggesting that I think the international community really does need to be patient and do as much as possible to help Hungarians create an environment that encourages positive growth.
i always suspected that jesus was a born hungarian.When i met him last time in the hills
surrounding Jerusalem.(He just came back from
visiting his girlfriend in En Kerem) and i passed him on my mountain bike,he told me that a certain
molnar got the “oskar” for his groundbreaking discovery that jews in israel learn hungarian.
He told me that he immediately wants to visit this
Molnar guy and off he was…..
Did he arrive already in edeleny?
@ judas
I believe if people followed Jesus’ teachings it would be a better world. Religion (in my view) has simply been hijacked like “free speech” and a host of other noble ideas and twisted and turned to suit
evil deeds.
Anyway, on the subject of Israel.
Evangelist Hagee pledged $6 million to Israel
I was watching the US election coverage when I learned that a group founded by an American Christian leader backed Israel’s sovereignty and donated millions to the cause. His reasons: “Turning part or all of Jerusalem over to the Palestinians would be tantamount to turning it over to the Taliban”
What is my point?: That extremists with bizarre and dangerous ideas come in all shapes and sizes, races and religions. It’s the one group that never discriminates.
@Olga: Email vandorlo AT centralbudapest DOT com otherwise centralbudapest AT gmail DOT com. I use very strong filters and don’t check my spam folder for false positives (those that aren’t spam but the computer thinks are based on previous settings I’ve made and some fuzzy logical inference). I’m also terrible at responding in a decent time frame. So best of luck. Otherwise send a direct message through Twitter (username: centralbudapest).
In response to your questions, I’d say this was a catch all video. I think anyone subjected to or affected by the consequences of peer and group pressure in whatever form. So those professionally concerned (teachers, care workers, charities, NGOs…), those indirectly effected (family, siblings, friends) and those directly effected (people who are being indoctrinated, fear they are or recovering from it).
My interest here is how some parts of the behaviours fit so closely with Jobbik’s modus operandi: the front organisations, no clear policies, scapegoating, group pressure, chanting, sense of us and them etc… And then is all that dressing up and marching around nonsense that Bobsoffhistrolley finds so uplifting. Add the Vona Gábor deity worship with the Virgin Morvai and you are pretty much set for cult status.
@Cináed: I recognise the points you raise and despair myself, as anon600ad has repeatedly, about the misuse psychology and psychiatry is put in Hungary. From school testing of infants to legitimise cultural biases onwards.
Hello Cináed!
I appreciate you analysis of Hungary’s situation in terms of psychology. Your conclusions match mine, which were arrived at through an analysis of history and cause and effect. I’ve long suspected that our malaise is the product of a mindset, that is itself the product of history and past oppressive regimes. As such, I don’t see a quick pick-me-up kind of fix. As a clinician, I’m sure you can agree that a severely traumatised patient can’t be healed in one or two quick sessions. It’s a process of therapy and healing that may have to go on for years.
This is why I’ve often said around here that our recovery is going to take decades, and not just a few years. I also believe that our best hope is to educate our young to be competitive in the world of today and tomorrow. The task of getting Hungary on it’s feet will rest with them.
To whom it may concern
Read chew.hu –you have an answer and a problem!
@Cináed formerly anon600ad: Just realised you are the same person. I thought the concentration of sensible people with a psychology background was getting too high around here. Unless this is part of your (plural) gang stalking tactics?
@Olga: The video is based on the work of the American psychiatrist Robert Jay Lifton, principally his book of 1956 “Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism: A Study of ‘Brainwashing’ in China”. He is a pioneer of work on psychohistory.
@ Vandorlo
Thanks for the email address – will email you in a few hours – It will come from “olga” etc and not from my regular email address – will explain why
I forwarded your video link to friends “in the business” but they probably know about it.
I only took Psychology 101 at University – 201 included experiments with mice and you had to put them to sleep at the end of the year. Not for me.
Anyway, I only remember one study (besides Pavlov’s dog) Milgram’s obedience experiments of the early 1960s Scary stuff. I can see a connection of sorts to the brain washing video
Van: I promise, I (and my other identity) am/are not stalking anyone.I don’t have the patience or mental energy for that; it’s difficult enough being one person let alone two or more.I really just changed my username as a recognition of the more uplifting and communicative nature of conversation here more recently and a desire to be a bit more personally open in my posts.
I thought that perhaps I should explain a bit about my background so that no-one should feel I’m misrepresenting myself. Please don’t read this as ‘big-noting’ myself though, as I will make an important point at the end.
I have a BA with majors in Sociology and History.In this degree I ‘constructed’ a third ‘major’ (normally just simple electives) of educational psychology and sociology of learning, with some philosophy and psychology.My history major was comprised of modern European (post 1500) and Russian history from Kievan Rus through Communism and the post-communist period to 2000.After this I did a Masters in International Development where apart from learning about Development in a global context, I focused on cognitive development in an education context and education policy development.Since then, I have been working on an MPhil, in which I have done a qualitative study of the sociology of depression that aims to draw the three ‘branches’ of bio, psycho and social theory together in an inclusive model. (cont…)
(…cont.) I have won a scholarship to continue this work at PhD level, but am just waiting rather painfully for my current university to stop being so petty and jealous and assess my bloody MPhil thesis.
I see history, sociology and psychiatry/psychology as being intertwined, rather than being distinctly separate disciplines; Sociology as a ‘psychology of the masses’ and history as ‘the sociology of yesterday’ if you will.Because of this, I constantly walk a tightrope, hardly endearing myself to the establishment while unintentionally making a lot of enemies.I have worked with students with learning difficulties, taught criminology and academic skills to undergrads, worked for the Hungarian PD as a ‘consultant’ and did worked with IV drug users.
Here is my promised point…in all of this, I have never regarded my education as a status symbol.I study because 1.I like it, and 2.It equips me with the things I need to know to achieve my aims in life.It doesn’t make me better than others.My aim in research is to tell the stories of people who are not heard and challenge the views of ‘stayed’ academics.To me, participants are ‘expert informants’ and I am at once an engaged learner and advocate.It’s not my place to make value judgements on the things informants say, but to report them with a foundation of theory that strives to understand the motives and reasons for why they hold their views.I hope that goes some of the way to explaining things a bit.
Van: I have been thinking about putting a webpage together with some of my interests etc on it, do you have any suggestions of how to go about this, or places that might host such things?To be honest, I’m a bit of a Luddite when it comes to ‘advanced’ computer/internet skills.
@Cinaed
Just kidding! great to have such a wealth of passionate people on here for a change for a genuine desire for a positive change.
A great list of knowledge you have accumulated and it seems you are putting it to valuable use, this is definitely a higher calling which you are sharing and you are genuinely trying to make this a better world, with no selfish agenda . I hope I can get a discount consultation
Obviously depends on what you want to achieve and whether you want to pay for any of it. These days most things can be free for low level usage.
1. For simple all round web presence (without exclusive branding) I’d suggest Ning (ning.com). It give you space for blogs, social networking etc…
2. If you want the same as Ning, but with branding I’d suggest a hosted version (meaning you don’t have to know how to do anything) of Elgg, see elgg.org/hosting.php Obviously you have to pay for this.
3. If you are feeling braver, you can download the software yourself and sign up for a web hosting company to run Elgg.
4. If you want some of your content to be educational then look for companies that run Moodle, see moodle.com/hosting/ This will alllow you to create classes, courses, enrollment etc… as well as tests, materials, booklists
5. Use Facebook. Not just for personal networking, you can create a facebook business profile page http://www.facebook.com/pages/create.php that you can use to promote yourself or your business and people can sign up as friends etc… This has all the discussion and social networking of facebook built in.
6. Use a mix a free tools. Sign up for facebook business page then use facebook friend connect to add social networking to a personal blog using Google’s Blogger http://www.blogger.com/start
7. If you want to be really fancy write your own application and have google host it for free: code.google.com/intl/hu/appengine/
@Cináed: That last post was a response to yours.
The main thing is obviously to decide what you want to communicate (simple branding or static content, interactive participation, or fully dynamic website etc…), to whom (do you need social networking features, security and authentication issues), how (simple blog posts, content managed articles, discussion forums etc…) and how often. Followed by whether you want direct control over those communications (which costs) or are willing to outsource them to one or more service providers (which needn’t cost anything).
Vandorlo, thanks for the info. I have been playing around with another free website builder thing, and all I can say is that I can see why it’s free.I don’t really need anything whiz-bang, more just something to post intellectual type essays, have a blog type thing, and maybe a forum. I have looked at various blogs but I’d like something that presented as a site.I’ll definitely check out your suggestions, but I daresay I won’t be writing any code.
I’m always up for a good conversation and don’t generally charge for them.
Law: Thanks.
@ Cinaed;
If you do eventually come up with your own “site”, make sure that you tell me how to get there. My computer skills consist of E-mails and Google…thats it. If anything happens to the computer ie: locking up or whatever, I just keep on punching buttons on the key board until my husband takes pitty on me and fixes it up for me. His standard question to me whenever I tell him that something is wrong with the computer is “Now what did you do to it?”
Zsuzsa: No problem, will do. I just hope it lives up to your expectations. …and don’t worry, I think computers were put on this earth to make geeks feel like quarterbacks. haha…well, sour grapes perhaps. Some time ago I did a skills test thing and was shocked to see that I was apparently an ‘advanced’ user. Believe me, if I’m an advanced user, the world is in big trouble. For the record, I do admire people with real computer skills.
@ Cindaed
Noted your reference to teaching criminology.
Are you familiar with “Restorative Justice”? my guess is that you are. What do you think of the concept?
Reference:http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/pi/pcvi-cpcv/res-rep.html
My husband uses Linkedin for business purposes. Vandorlo did not mention it , I know “nuthin” about business websites just wondered if Linkadin was not used very much in Europe to promote businesses
@ Cinaed;
“geeks feel like quarter backs…that was funny.
Anyhow, I’m KNOW that your website will live up to my expectations…you see, I don’t have any because I don’t know what to expect! Please do not take that as an insult, for it was not meant as one, I’m just trying to explain how little know about why people/human mind does/process stuff and why. Hell, I love Dr.Phil and his no bullshit form of therapy, I’m sure you are rolling your eyes at my admission about him. Still, my main area of interest is how young children “view the world”, how my actions effect them and how do I raise my children with self confidence and good self-esteem, I’m just trying to understand them better. Long and short:what am I doing right and what am I doing wrong. Well, enough of this. Have a great weekend and I will talk to you later.
Hi Olga…re: restorative justice.Hmm.It’s a really tricky one.On one hand, it can be a really good thing because it forces offenders to have to actually face their victims and apply some social and emotional pressure on them.On the other hand, I worry for victims of crime who are hoping for something profound; remorse, acceptance of responsibility or at the least, some embarrassment on the part of the offender.Sadly though, if an offender doesn’t do these things, it can actually make the victim feel victimised twice.Furthermore, if offenders already oppose society/the justice system, restorative justice can be seen as an attempt to humiliate and ultimately result in greater opposition and increased offending behaviour.So to answer your question…it can be a good thing, but it really depends on the people involved; victim and offender, and as such, needs to be evaluated very carefully when being applied.
Zsuzsa: Actually, dare I admit it, I don’t mind Dr Phil.A lot of what he says isn’t so bad…and I like that it puts at least some knowledge of psychology in the mainstream, rather than being a ‘mystical black art’ practiced by a priesthood wearing white coats and chanting ‘hmm…your mother’.(sorry got a bit lost in my analogy)I have my doubts about the US tradition of voyeurism and living vicariously through others, but it could be worse…he’s better than Jerry Springer.
Hey Cinaed
No computer time today – quick note. If you are at all interested about Restorative Justice “in real life” examples:
Book: “Walking After Midnight”-by Katy Hutchison publisher raincoast books
you can find out more about her by just typing in her name in google and you will come to the Forgiveness Project
I actually know that “Restorative Justice” would not work for me – I am not that forgiving (proof that I have 100 percent Hungarian blood in my veins – my kids’ are watered down by 50 percent. My husband believes in this philosophy. In order for me to buy into it, it would have to be a non-violent crime.)
Thought you might be interested from an academic point of view
Olga, I generally agree that restorative justice suits non-violent crime better.For things like teenagers who’ve been vandalising property, it can be a good thing to make them fix it.Or to make someone pay for the damage they cause.Community service can be good for actually teaching some skills while ‘serving time’.I think for restorative justice to work, there has to be the possibility of some educational element being successful.Education is arguably the most successful way to prevent crime and recidivism, but it doesn’t easily meet the needs of the community for justice being ‘seen’ to be done, and doesn’t work for offenders who just don’t care.For those who use boredom as an excuse/justification, giving people something to do, ie: work for the dole, is not a bad idea.
@Law, Cináed: “I like… Cináed , that is so Fiery” Is it? ‘Nicknamed An Fionnghalach, the Fratricide?’:-o Is this some kind of confession, Cini? (W as he a real asshole?
) I also don’t get why ‘you people’:) keep announcing who you were like Sophist FKA Adrian D. What am I missing here? Or do I just not understand youse because I’ve always been Pávaszem and always will be?
@Cináed: “it made me shudder to realise just how true that stuff is…” Is it really? And just how does it apply to anyone on these boards? How demagogue. It also reminds me of Soviet propaganda labeling political opponents insane, locking and drugging them up like they locked and drugged up some of the most prominent dissidents which is apparently on the ‘hate speech’ crowd’s agenda as well. “Excess Religiosity” This is, again, red, red and RED: “the Soviets turned most churches into warehouses, Kazan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazan_Cathedral,_St._Petersburg was converted into the Museum of the History of Religion and Atheism. Oh, how I wish I could have seen its main exhibits. “Over here we have a blank canvas called No God Not Creating Man.
@Cináed, continued: “It was not painted by Friedrich Nietzsche after he killed God and went bat-shit crazy. Religion is the worst form of worship, except for atheism. It is one thing to make everyone celebrate Christmas, but quite another to steal it. Since it has become a cottage industry to mock, ridicule, and condemn the beliefs of the faithful, I’m waiting for an enterprising author to best-sellingly describe the horrors of anti-religion. Obviously, there is the terror of the French Revolution and the killing fields of Cambodia, but for the Bolshevik chapter, one detail I hope he or she includes: Traditional dolls were taken out of circulation for inspiring the ‘hypertrophy of maternal feelings’ and replaced with ‘fat, repulsive priest dolls’ in order to elicit anti-religious emotions. That’s right, they stole little girls’ dolls…” ( Slate
@Pávaszem: “…It is one thing to make everyone celebrate Christmas, but quite another to steal it…” Christmas is a pagan midwinter festival. Christianity stole it, we are just claiming it back to get through the dark days. Saturnalia, Isis, Winter Solstice, Mithras… Christianity just placed all their celebrations over the other religions to force conversions and legitimise their oppression. It was only in around 350 that Pope Julius I declared Dec 25th to be a celebration of Christ’s birth.
Along with mistletoe, yule logs etc… Christmas is still a pagan mid-winter festival and long may it remain so.
They also stole the pagan land marked by yew trees to plant their churches. Christianity is just paganism in shirt and tie.
@Nyihaha: “cherry blossom meat…” Your usual snob horseshit and WOW do you really not know that horse meat has been for centuries a cheap alternative to pork and beef in Hungary?
Lókolbász http://kolbaszaruhaz.hu/images/lovast.jpg anyone? http://bit.ly/1UZ0Ay Franks used to be exclusively horsemeat ( Have you been to Kincsem Park and heard all the losers yell ‘virsli lesz belőled?’ ) Donkey meat too.. Real Hungarian salami has always had some donkey meat. And you don’t know that after all these years… A real Hungary expert, ain’t you? “caboodle.hu…[+ an extremely long link]“ Have you heard of tr.im, tinyarro.ws, etc., IT Genius? ( Let me know if you need help using them 
) “The mind control techniques used by sects, special interest groups and political parties…” Such as the Zionist movement, neo-conservatives, neo-liberals and such? “they have clearly been duped using these tactics. Poor sots” No shit! But who has been duping them? Brainwashing is not cheap you know. It takes tons of cash ( like the billions Israel gets every year from everyone’s tax dollars, euros and forints + the AIG, Madoff, Goldman Sach type ripoffs ) So, where does all that waycistNazi™ dough come from, Horsie, in your not so humble opinion? ( And who brainwashed you DoubleStandardDude™/WhoreOfIsrael™ anyway? )
@Pávaszem: “Real Hungarian salami has always had some donkey meat. And you don’t know that after all these years…” I didn’t, must ask around about it, thanks for the info.
Never heard of link shortening, you are waaaaay ahead of me there.
Pavaszem: I changed my name because 1.I felt it was time for a change and 2. a couple of posters commented that my old name was less than ‘personable’.It’s just an internet board…does it matter that much? I announced the name change because there had been so many problems with name changing and I didn’t want anyone to think I was being mischievous.I just thought it was polite.I gave the info about my background because I wanted to explain my perspective and again, didn’t want anyone to assume that I was something I wasn’t.I also made it clear that it wasn’t about big-noting myself and that I don’t see my education as a status symbol.The discussion on mental health related to some comments made on this(by Olga I think)and other threads about issues of characterisations and misdiagnosis.Finally, I know what you’re talking about with the Soviet use of psychiatry.Somewhere I have copies of party directives on the use of medication for the ‘treatment’ of people demonstrating the ‘obvious’ mental weakness of counter-revolutionary thinking.So yeah, I think I’m agreeing with you on that.As a footnote, the book I quoted was American, so it goes to show that the Soviets didn’t exactly corner the market on human rights abuse in the field of mental health treatment.
@Pávaszem: OK, I’ll admit you got me intrigued. In fact it bugged me for all of 15 minutes trying to work out how they did the URL shortening. Obviously it’s databased, but how do you create the index and how does this link the real URL and shortened URL?
Well the answer, which I am sure you already knew, is creating the database index using base 36.
1. Insert real URL in database, which whatever indexing you want, plain incremental will do.
2. Get the index for the URL and convert this base 10 number to base 36 (which effectively compresses/shortens it)
3. Create a simple script to accept this base 36 number and convert it back to original URL i.e. ShortURL/Base36Index —> Original URL.
Ennyi!!
So, to see if your are au fait with this smart arse, here’s a message in base 10, that can be read in base 36: “2410826388458″
n.b. You can do this on a scientific calculator if you have one handy.
Relating to my earlier posts, and Pavaszem’s question of whether abuse in the psychiatric system is real, here are some quotes:
…what the surveys are saying and what the interviews are saying are that people are dying, being injured, and sexually assaulted in institutions. They’re being ignored and overmedicated. They’re dying and being damaged in restraints. When I tried to relate the individual stories that I was getting to the research and data out in the field, what I discovered is that there is no research, or that it is terribly, terribly difficult to put together, or that it is virtually useless. The voices of people with psychiatric disabilities are silenced. Their stories are dismissed as anecdotal, because of choices we [researchers] make about what information must be gathered and what information must be systematically ignored.” (Susan Stefan, J.D., National Council on Disability Report, January 20th, 2000)
“The American Journal of Psychiatry reported that as many as 81% of women with psychiatric disabilities have been physically or sexually abused in institutions. In the general population, some 1,000 rapes occur each day, but only 300 of them are reported, according to the U.S. Office of Victims Assistance at the U.S. Department of Justice… Each year the commission receives, reviews, and, where necessary, directly investigates about 7,000 reports of abuse and over 2,000 reports of consumer deaths… Based on my 20 years of work with the Commission, I believe too many consumer complaints or suspicions of abuse are buried with the body.” (Thomas R. Harmon, Director of Medical Review and Investigations, NYS Commission on Quality of Care)
As far as misdiagnosis goes. I have numerous first-hand accounts of people who were misdiagnosed, medicated, institutionalised and ultimately written off. Only with outside intervention were they able to get out of the system. I even have one really disturbing recent case where a man was placed in a ‘locked ward’ because no-one wanted the responsibility for his case file. He was there for six weeks before any of the staff there realised that he hadn’t actually been admitted properly. It was only when the social worker noticed that anything was done, upon which he was released back to his family’s care…who incidentally had no idea where he had gone.
Sorry I can’t provide direct quotes or references for these because they are subject to privacy laws.
Pavaszem: I realised later that your question of is it true related to cult behaviour etc…Sorry. In any case…yes, it’s true. I have known many cases where what is mentioned in the video really does happen. OK, so the video is kind of done in a mocking way, but it really can be as blatant as it says. It’s especially dangerous for children who grow up in such ‘total’ environments, as the practices and beliefs of the cult are ‘normalised’ by the child, and which ultimately become VERY hard to shake even if later in life the individual comes out of the system.In this way, the communist experience bears great similarity to cult mechanics, becoming a ‘State Sect’…for want of a better term.
@Cináed: “the Soviets didn’t exactly corner the market on human rights abuse…” in any field, obviously… And only the Americans have a gulag of concentration camps and torture routinely assisted by ‘health professionals’ any more: ‘American Psychological Association (APA) task force formed to advise the U.S. military on prisoner interrogations… http://➡.ws/Ԫ ” what is mentioned in the video really does happen” I am sure it does but did it happen on this board? And by whom? Since our Zionist friends keep suggesting that their opponents ‘display cult behavior,’are insane ( and have swine flu
“the communist experience bears great similarity to cult mechanics…” How about the Zionist or Atheist experience? Is there any cult more powerful than those overlapping two?
@Blondie: “What kind of a Democracy gives ‘air-time’ to the Gabor Vonas of this world?” Democracy and freedom again… Democracy as it has been brought to Iraq and Afghanistan and freedom as in freedom fries. Get thee behind me… drink your own poison, etc. “Unless of course by Hungarian standards, Canada is not a Democratic country” Do you mean the code word ‘democracy,’ the actual meaning of that much abused word or just that public policy and public opinion are in sync in Canada as they were in the Soviet Union or national socialist Germany?
@Blondie, continued: They are of course way out of sync in Hungary… Feed the people and people will support you. Don’t feed them and they will turn on you like a wolf(i) pack… “I would have to search for a Communist Party supporter” Why don’t you just visit your parents, honey? ( Get on their nerves… ) “they simply don’t have voices that reach the average Canadian’s ears” You don’t want voices you don’t agree with reach anyone’s ears and you call it democracy… How Orwellian. I bet you call war peace too, don’t you? “Now back to hate mongers and conspiracy theorists on this website and all over the world…” You do that, hon. Give them waycists a big whatfor.
#Observer? Like you are watching us and fantasize http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L02u84dou6E about things you wish you could do to us? A real mentsh, folks… “Publicly inciting to violence or hatred” But isn’t that what you people do with your Shoa biz? Whip up hatred against Germans, Arabs, Hungarians, Catholicism, Islam, non-stop, with the frenzy of feeding piranhas? It’s not just a money grab. You’re destroying people’s lives, torture, murder http://bit.ly/1c8Hef and commit genocide. Which is actually way beyond inciting. Then you turn around and preach at us about ‘inciting hatred?’ Such nerve! Chutzpah is your word for it I believe… You’re a bunch of thieves yelling ‘stop thief’ Obnoxious.
@Observer, more: “dissemination or distribution of tracts, pictures or other material, directed against a group of persons…” You’re obviously referring to the Jyllands-Posten controversy http://bit.ly/GXxRG Ugly business… Has anyone gone to jail for it yet? How about Wilhelm Geert? Do you think he will go to prison for inciting hatred? “Publicly condoning, denying or grossly trivialising crimes of genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes” Wow! You must be talking about the genocide in Lebanon and Palestine! Has any of the Israeli war criminals http://bit.ly/3rSyXs gone to prison yet?
@Observer, continued: When do you think the international arrest warrants against Jewish war criminals http://bit.ly/193Aor will finally result in an actual arrest? When will Jewish concentration camp commanders like Shlomo Morel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salomon_Morel finally face justice? Oh, I get it: they are ‘good Nazis,’ right?
)) Another ‘democrat…’ Were you jerking off to this or something? How about show trials like Nuremberg, the Eichmann ‘trial’ or the Stalinist purges? Wouldn’t that just be peachy too? You crawl back in the sewer, OK? Vermin.
@American: “hold people like these’s feet to the fire… the perfect time to repeatedly air out the ugly ugly… No one ELSE will hear, but we will remind you and those you love!”
#A Fan wrote: “I love Vanderlo!”/i> Not enough to learn to spell his nick… How long have you lived in Hungary, douche?
@ Pavaszem
My apologies, I didn’t know the “Blondie” was me until I read my own words – You have me confused with my blond green eyed daughter. I have brown hair and brown eyes.
Seems you haven’t read the news my being a “Jewish whore” – that’s ok. I am getting used to the Jewish part seeing I do have Jewish friends but so far my ads for ” wanting to meet whores” have not been answered through Craigslist.
Thinking of changing “whore “ to “slut” -maybe that will work.
Did you know that a couple lost custody of their child in one of the Western provinces because of white supremacist teachings? The Children’s Aid Soc. and the Court agreed it was not in the child’s best interest to hear all that shit and be raised in a hateful environment.Thus my remark about your childhood
My parents left in 56 for a better future – I agree with everyone who believes that Real Patriots didn’t leave. My Dad thought Pierre Trudeau was a card carrying Communist – I am not kidding. So regardless of your opinion, he was not a Communist and despised them until his dying day. He always supported me in all my decisions except for my campaigning for the Liberal Party. He said “ elvesztedted az eszedet“ –
I am getting an education from your soul mates:
1.Zionist Jew = a Christian, Muslim Buddhist et al who does not hate Jews and/or Roma
2.Communist = same as Number 1
3.Jewish Whore = female version of Number 1
4. JOBBIK = Hungary’s road to Utopia
5. The Oszkar Molnars = Hungary’s truth speakers
@ Olga:
Pierre Trudeau (a Canadian Prime Minister from the past) was actually a hard core Socialist (code for Commie in Europe) do your research.
@Olgica: “I am getting used to the Jewish part “ Well, in Canada you kind of have to… “Did you know that a couple lost custody of their child in one of the Western provinces because of white supremacist teachings?” And you like that… How sickening. A Hungarian couple in Sweden lost custody of their son because a social worker determined that Hungarian food is bad for kids. You people are full of shit like that. Luckily, political discourse is a-changing and people like you are becoming relics. In the meantime I hope your daughter marries someone whose rights you so admirably defend. “he was not a Communist and despised them until his dying day” That is pretty hard to swallow considering that he named you Olga and went to Canada… It’s just too typical. What did he do in Hungary before he beat his feet? Wasn’t he an athlete or something? “I am getting an education from your soul mates” Lay off the mushrooms, Blondie. You don’t know shit about my soul or my soul mates, you’re just sticking pins into voodo dolls like Migrant Horse — your soul mate.
@ Pavaszem
So kind of you to be concerned about my personal life. Touching
My Dad spent a year and my Mom 6 months at a Szombathey Jail around 1952 courtesy of the Communist government. (They always lived in BP, but there was a reason for Szombathey)
Unlike others less fortunate, my Dad was never mistreated, he simply served his time and went back to BP.
My parents arrived in Canada in March 1957 and obtained their Canadian Citizenship in 1962. There was a question on the application regarding having a criminal record, and my Dad explained his record in details. He was surprised at the interview that the Can. gov’t knew all about it, because they investigated everyone who was accepted into the country as a refugee and checked out their background before granting citizenship. In my Dad’s case, the “criminal record” was more of a badge of honour than a hindrance. BTW, according to my Dad, Canadian citizenship was denied to those who were members of the Communist party. It appears the Canadian government did its homework before granting cizizenship.
Olga is my great-grandmother’s name. She was named after the Grand Duchess Olga. It’s also my middle name.
Thank you for the good wishes for my daughter. I hope your kids marry for love and live happily ever after.
@Olga: “My Dad spent a year and my Mom 6 months at a Szombathey Jail” Your Dad couldn’t have done time there because Szombathely was a women’s prison, pretty cushy too compared to hellholes like Dunapentele or Kistarcsa. It was one of the prisons where the various commie factions locked up each other depending on who was on top at any given time. Kádár himself was jailed and tortured, Rajk and Nagy were jailed then killed. Just like in Mafia wars… “Canadian citizenship was denied to those who were members of the Communist party” False. Every Commie and his uncle emigrated to either Canada or Sweden in and after 1956. KGB agents destined for the US that really denied citizenship and even entry to Bolsheviks were sent as fake refugees to Canada before they slipped into the US one way or another — like Red Éva is rumored to have done. Kopácsi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A1ndor_Kop%C3%A1csi lived there, R Lantos went there too — not by accident I assure you. The first owner of a Hungarian restaurant in Toronto that you probably visited as a child was a high ranking ÁVÓ officer from Debrecen who used the valuables he took or extorted from his victims to set up his restaurant — and the list goes on.
@Olga, continued: “She was named after the Grand Duchess Olga” Grand Duchess Olga was Russian for Pete’s sake and Russian occupiers were hated like the plague in Hungary. Only someone who served them would have given his child in the 1950′s a Russian name. Which is probably why you’re so shy about telling us what your parents did before they left Hungary, yes?
dear Pávaszem
The information you provide is simply brilliant, Cheers.
I think it important to remember that the EU evolved from out of the old “Common Market”, and that some the oldest members were nations like France and West Germany. The original purpose was to keep the members from hitting each other with tariffs on each others goods and exports, and engaging in trade rivalries like in the pre-WW2 period. That original purpose was served for most of it’s charter members, otherwise they would have left the whole thing many years ago. They stayed, because many of them were great exporting nations that relied on trade outside of their own national borders.
Over time, a few things happened. You saw a move from multi-lateral governance by the member states, to a centralised one- namely a Brussels led superstate and super-legislature. National currencies like the Deutschmark were replaced with Euros. Finally, a number of newer members were admitted over time, including some ex-communist nations like Hungary. The EU can still serve as a “common market” zone for it’s members, but the price of membership will include some loss of local control and sovereignty.
I think it’s the last part that bothers many, not just in Hungary. I see an ongoing culture and political clash between business elites, who well appreciate the free movement of their export goods, vs. those who are not so personally involved with trade, and who feel the loss of national sovereignty is too high a price to pay. I predict that these frictions will go on for some time.
One possibility that is not being discussed is that the EU should go back to the old “Common Market” model, or offer a variant we can call “EU lite”. Move away from the superstate idea, especially for the lesser developed nations, governed from Brussels, and go back to individual member states working out their issues through multi-lateral negotiation. Of course, there is nothing to stop those nations who are not current EU members and thus not bound by their rules, from forming such an association.
There are too many borders all over Europe, and I don’t think it of practical value to stop the flow of goods and slap tariffs on them every time there is a border crossing. Doing that would be going back to the 1930′s and before; thus reinforcing national rivalries. Also, almost all European nations, except for Russia, are small markets and aren’t big enough to be self-contained trade zones.
Whether the Brussels led superstate idea will stand the test of time remains to be seen. With or without it though, the trade issue remains and needs to be addressed. All European nations after all, export something. (besides people!)
All this discussion(especially by the right wingeres here) about “going back” in Europe is plain silly!
Of course Europe has to be united economically and politically and in all other respects (science, medicine, technology standards, culture…) to stand a chance against the (emerging) superpowersChina and India and others…
I remember reading about Germany in the 19th century when every kingdom had its own measures, money, religion, laws etc and there were border controls every few kilometers – that must have been a nighmare! Especially because there were so many enclaves, political and religious islands…
Personally I remember going on holiday in the 1970s showing not only my passport almost a dozen times but also carrying five different currencies with me: German Mark, Swiss franc, Austrian schilling, Italian lire and Yugoslav dinar – always calculating, trying to spend all of them, especially the dinars because they would be worthless the next year…
Now the only thing you have to look for are the different speed limits…
PS:
I never wanted to go to the “really socialist” countries like Hungary or East Germany because I hated those Nazi-type policemen at the border and everywhere, Yugoslavia was much easier to handle, especially the Istrian peninsula – which once was part of Hungary, wasn’t it ?
Pávaszem speaks the truth and knows his stuff about the Rakosi (Roth Mano) Communist era and Canadian laws about Communists.
All that talk about right and extreme right is garbage because Communists who are the most extreme left label everyone who is not like their parasitic ilk extreme right. There is no such thing as extreme right, only seems that way to Communist gangsters.
Look who is talking?
Many Mazsihisz leaders are Communist criminals
@ Pava;
I have to admit, that when I check this site and see that you have posted, I’m eager to see what awaits. I find your funny- no-bullshit-style refreshing. You have nothing to prove and it shows…good on you for that. I always seem to agree with everything that you write, except for today when you directed your comments, in part, towards Olga. My parents too came out in 1956 to Canada via Austria and Holland. They were dumped off in Northern Manitoba, a town called Flinflaun (I think that I spelt the town wrong) Anyhow, my Dad was a heavy duty mechanic and Anyu studied electronics of some sort(worked on circuit boards if that makes sense)in Hungary before they escaped. Neither one was a commie I guarantee you that! Any success that they achieved in Canada, was because they worked like dogs and not because they smuggled stuff out of Hungary. So really all I wanted to say was that, there were escapees from Hungary that just wanted a better life then what they were experiencing.
Zsuzsa
It would be foolish to claim that a large percentage of those 38,000 Hungarian refugees to Canada were Communists but it is equally foolish to claim that Canada denied admission to Communists because Canada had no restrictions about Communists but the United States did.
When reading posts from Hungarian-Americans and Hungarian-Canadians the sharp left leaning of Canadian posters is undeniable. It could reasonable be attributed to their Communist upbringing. One hardly ever comes across Hungarian-Americans with leftist/Communist leanings.
Hungarian-Canadians and their children who are not leftist/Communist leaning hardly ever post. They have better things to do.
A good rule of thumb is that if you scratch a poster screaming about far right, Jobbik, Hungarian Guard, anti-Semitism and such, you will find a Communist or someone on the far-far left.
@ Tim;
Well today you have met a right leaning Hungarian-Canadaian who does not have anything better to do but post on occation. Please note though, I lean to the right; but, am not horizontal.
I am sure that you heard that the “exception makes the rule”.
I was not questioning your story (my apologies if it sounded as if I were) as few of the Hungarian refugees to Canada were Communists but the few that were went to Canada instead of the US.
As I already mentioned, you recognize them from their posts.
@ Tim;
Thank-you for that. Rule of thumb for Canada is Eastern Canada=Liberals and Western Canada= Conservative. Again, like you say, there are the exceptions ie : Plumcrazy says he/she is from Alberta (a traditionally Conservative strong hold) is a Liberal. Go figure!
Zsuzsa
Tim (a new addition to the loonis jobbik front here) said:
“All that talk about right and extreme right is garbage because Communists who are the most extreme left label everyone who is not like their parasitic ilk extreme right. There is no such thing as extreme right, only seems that way to Communist gangsters.”
Well, if you exchange left and right in this statement – then you get what those birdbrains like Bernie, ricsi, Law and Pavaszem stand for.
For them there is that simple equation:
Not one of us = liberal = leftist = commie = gangster = zionist = and so on…
Or to quote another rightwinger (don’t remember who it was):
To the right of us stands only the wall…
@ Tim
“Hungarian-Canadians and their children who are not leftist/Communist ….” Aha!!! So if you are Liberal/Left you are Communist?
By your definition Ontario itself is a huge Communist stronghold. Thus I am a card carrying Communist (belong to and support the Federal Liberal Party) Thank you for clearing this up.
I assume you know the difference between policy and legislation. Full reference:
http://www.international.gc.ca/department/history-histoire/dcer/details-en.asp?intRefid=5426
I studied Canada’s history of Immigration policies. You are clueless.
Extract from Cabinet Conclusions
“TOP SECRET Ottawa, January 24th, 1951
28. The Minister of Citizenship and Immigration, referring to discussion at the meeting of November 22nd, 1950, said that an interdepartmental committee had been considering possible measures that might be taken, if desired, to deal with Communists and Communist sympathizers so far as citizenship, immigration and travel were concerned. With regard to naturalization, the committee thought that no change in policy was necessary but that in a public statement it be made clear that citizenship would not be granted to Communists or Communist sympathizers. ”
@justasking – I believe that either Plumcrazy’s Mom or Dad is Roma – that should clear up the mystery of why she would support the Liberal Agenda despite her living out West.
I like Stephen Harper and would like him to form
a majority gov’t. The present Liberal Leadership stinks -
@ Olga;
If I were to explain in one basic sentence, to my kids, the difference between a Conservative and a Liberal “platform” if you will, it would go something like this. The Conservatives believe in the motto “work hard and you will be rewarded”. The Liberals believe, “don’t worry, the government will pay”.
I am a card carring Conservative, just like you are a card carrying Liberal. That being said, I would pull out my own teeth (pliers and all) before voting Liberal. I have to admit, I do not understand people who flip back and forth from one side of the political pendulum to the next. Voting one way this time and another the next. Shit or get off the pot, either a person is left or right, you can not go through life on the fence…at least in my opinion.
@Olga:
As a liberal (have been and voted for more than 40 years) I’m used to attacks by our local communists in Germany (“Die Linke”) – for them “Neo Liberal” is like reactionary right wing…
And by the jobbik crowd here I’m considered a commie or Stalinist – strange world…
It’s funny that also in the USA “Liberal” seems to be a swearword for the conservatives.
@ Justasking
The “you must be either right or left, sh-t or get off the pot” sounds p-rretty simplistic to me… Does the old expression “it’s not always black or white” sound silly to you?
In a complex world, complex people don’t always fall lockstep on one side of issues that are defined by Party leaders or broad ideology… It’s so dumb it hardly is worth saying, but it appears some clarification is needed. In my experience smart people sometimes disagree with the “party line” on certain issues, that shows they are thinking people who have their own views. For instance their are USA liberals who want to be tough on Iran or USA conservatives who are Pro-Life, etc. and this doesn’t make them idiots.
Someone who is simultaneously for AND against abortion… well those are mutually exclusive, so THAT would be strange… in that case you would have a point; but ‘right’ and ‘left’ are too broad to mean anything specific.
But, implying that someone is stupid or a fence-sitter if they aren’t lockstep zombies with either “OPTION A” or “OPTION B”… well that sounds much more an indictment of YOUR simplistic worldview than anything anyone here should bother responding to.
Just my opinion of course. So, which are you, a Stalinist Communist or Nazi Fascist? You must be ONE, right?
either a person is left or right, you can not go through life on the fence
justasking at December 3, 2009 10:04 PM
—
So you are religious?
You have decided to ‘believe’, current facts and visions are not so important.
Life is very Black and White, no cats are grey in the dark. Sounds a bit like Borderline personality?
-
Moving from Sweden to Hungary, but also in Swedish politics from the 60s to now, that the real ‘content’ of what is ‘Right’/'Left’ changed rather much. The current ‘non-Socialist’ Swedish Government could win by convincing the voters they were better ‘SocialDemocrats’ than the Socal-Democrats themselves.
Same thing in Hungary, the rhetoric of Fidesz has very much to do with being a better ‘Socialist’ Government, more like the old Kadar, but with more ‘freedom’.
-
In Sweden Bob’s favourite anti-immigration party is playing on old Social-Democrats’s feelings for the old ‘Folk-Hemmet’, which can be in a sense described as Jobbik’s wet dream.
What was typical ‘Left’ 30-50 years ago, is ‘Right’ today and vice versa.
-
Conservatives never subscribed on the theory “work hard and you will be rewarded”. I would say that has been part of Social-Democratic parties traditionally, with the small modification ‘should’ instead of ‘will’.
Conservatives was more for, traditionally, stop normal people from getting higher education and have a chance to compete on the job-market for more lucrative work.
The Conservatives were more for a Gentlemen’s Club, than open competition.
@ Wolfi
All this talk about “Communism” – never occured to me that the Liberal Party of Canada was “Communist” by Hungarian standards. Wow !
Someone posted a YouTube video with Mesterhay, Orban and Vona being interviewed with English subtitles.
No need to talk about JOBBIK – Vona had absolutely nothing to say about an actual agenda – Orban was ok but squirmed a lot.
Really impressed with Mesterhazy
I know he does not have a chance to be successful in the upcoming election, but he is young with seemingly no “baggage” – what do you think of him as a person?
He seems like a class act but I know it’s hard to tell in a 2 minute interview – just the first impression. What do you think of him as a budding politician? I assume he is the sacrificial lamb as no one else in his party wants to face the expected “dismal failure”
@justasking
The Liberal party needs to reorganize, have a clear mandate and win a Majority in the next election. I don’t think we have a good Leader at the moment
In the meantime, Harper was elected democratically by the people of Canada after a straight 13 year Liberal era. I respect the electoral process plus I think he should be given a chance.
The last thing we need right now is another election – I resented the Liberal Party leader trying to force it on us. I blame him (Ignatieff) , not the whole party.
@ Bystander;
Yes there are various shades of grey in politics, I know that. Do I agree with everything my Conservative government stands for…No. I do however agree with the majority of it, enough to vote Conservative when elections are called. Do I agree with some of the Liberals policies…yes, but not enough to vote for them.
If you know anything about Canada, you would know that we have a Socialist Health Care System, one that I would fight tooth and nail to hold onto. Many people would say that Canadas politics lean to the boring side. Our parties are not too left and not too right and we like it that way. So to answer your last question…neither.
@ Viking;
I am a Catholic. I do not agree with everything it stands for. I agree with birth control, abortion (yet not as a form of birth control) and pre-martial sex. I believe that women should be allowed to become Priests and that Priests should have the option to get married if they choose. I do not go to church every Sunday and should pray more often then I do. If there ever was a poster child for “old boys club” the Catholic religion would be it. I’m still a Catholic, with all it’s black, white and grey areas.
@justasking
Re: “I am a Catholic. I do not agree with everything it stands for. I agree with birth control, abortion (yet not as a form of birth control) and pre-martial sex.”
I know just what you mean.
I am a vegetarian but I don’t agree with everything it stands for. I have no problems with eating beef, pork, lamb, duck, chicken, fish etc.
@ Olga;
Exactly, I know just what you mean. Your a self proclaimed Liberal with a capital “L”, who would vote Conservative so that they could get a Majority Government.
Those who had no reason to be offended by my findings did not.
Those who had reason to be offended by my findings did.
As they should…
Those who had reason to be offended by my findings did.
As they should…
Tim at December 4, 2009 5:56 AM
—-
Aahh, the good old ‘Every one who does not agree with me to 100% are against me and there is a sinister reason why!’
Normally that ‘sinister reason’ is that the opponents belong to another religious or ethnic group or ‘just must be communists’ or homo-sexual.
Tim is a true representative for the fine US tradition of McCarthy and Bush junior.
Now that you have called me all these names, would you like to pull out my fingernails also following the practice of your Communist comrades?
@Tim:
Even for a jobbik jovo you are extremely narrow-minded. Everyone of a different opinion is a communist for you ?
Hi Zsuzsa,
You mentioned earlier about choosing a side etc…I noticed later that you added your justification being that although you agree with some policies from the right, that it is not enough to make you vote for them. I think that’s perfectly reasonable. I ask the question though, if you would vote for the ‘other side’ if at some point you felt that their policies reflected your own values. I know that a lot of people are ‘dyed in the wool’ supporters of whichever side of politics and that the thought of voting any other way would be some kind of betrayal. I think this is sad, since as I have said elsewhere, I actually think that essence of democracy is the swinging vote.My father’s family were committed left voters because of their tradition of being tradesman.My mother’s family were right voters because they were land owners.I don’t feel any particular loyalty to either though, and do my best to 1.educate myself with the issues and policies, and 2.vote for the party that I feel will best serve the interests of the nation. Sometimes this changes.I don’t feel any sense of being a fence sitter about it. I see it as being conscientious about making sure the government knows when it has reached the extent of my sympathies for its agenda.
(cont)…to Zsuzsa, I respect that you identify yourself as a moderate conservative voter. At present, our conservative coalition (in opposition)is in total disarray, and I think it is bad for the nation as a whole…in fact, we are heading for double dissolution because things just aren’t functioning.At present, no-one in their right mind would vote conservative because it would simply end in disaster.I would probably identify myself as a moderate left voter, but would probably change if the situation were reversed.
to all…I think that categories of left and right are not universal, fixed or or consistent.Our far left here couldn’t hold a candle to what could be described as communist.We have a strong tradition of social justice, but we also have an equally strong tradition of not allowing government to interfere in our lives.I don’t accept this idea that left=liberal=communist.To me, the word liberal means something more of freedom, equality and self-determination.It also means having the freedom to choose which party to vote for.I don’t want any government, right or left to tell me who I should be or what I should think.I shudder to think of what a world of conservative governments would look like, just as much as the world during the height of the communist era was a fearsome thing.
@Cinaed: You’re absolutely right!
Now after lunch (really wonderful langos my wife made, enough to give some to our neighbors…) I feel in the mood to answer.
That “swing in the vote” you describe is exactly what I try to do sometimes. My favorite example:
A few years ago we got to vote for a new mayor for my German hometown, a university town, so a bit to the left. The incumbent was a social democrat, a woman that really nobody of my friends liked, she was so selfish and all.
So we all decided to give the young green politician a chance, vote for this guy in the first round, where an absolute majority is needed, and then look at things in the second round, how the conservative (that of course we did not want to win!) is doing…
I voted early on sunday and then drove to Hungary. After dinner I switched on my TV (I was still a widower, single at that time), settled for the German news and a nice glass of Hungarian wine.
To my and probably everybody’s surprise the young green guy had gotten 50,1 % – and was our new mayor!
BTW: We now have several green party members as mayors in Schwab country (Baden-Württemberg), mainly in university towns.
by the way…borderline personality disorder is not so much about whether or not things are black and white…although, I do accept that to a person with bpd whatever they think is self-evidently true. It gets its name from people who are on the borderline of being psychotic.People with bpd are often very manipulative and use guilt and emotional blackmail to get attention.Bpd has a bit in common with narcissistic personality disorder in that both involve a person who is intensely focused on themselves and have difficulty understanding or even realising that other people are something other than characters in their soap-opera.Sorry to bore you all with that…but if anyone is interested, I can post more about it.
@Cinaed
Conservative Liberal and National parties are totally different to Liberal conservative party in Hungary.
Both Labor and Liberals policies are nearly identical now days there just puppets!
Policies are and always have been moulded by US and UK interests.
Why call Liberal party in Australia this name when it is suppose to in theory be a conservative party?
And Labor is part of Fabian society policies which is all leds back to the Masonic Lodge agenda.
The Fabian Society was founded in 1884 by Edward Pease, Frank Podmore and Hubert Bland.
The name comes from the Roman general Quintus Fabius Maximus Cunctater which means “the delayer”.
Fabians seek to change society and government to their Socialist ideals by delaying their goals and using the stealth of “gradualism” just as General Fabius did against Hannibal.
By exploiting the natural tendency of all Politicians to concentrate power, the Fabians have worked at supporting legislation to empower bureaucracy, thereby undermining Parliament and thus destroying the rights of individuals.
The Fabian Coat of Arms was originally the WOLF IN SHEEPS CLOTHING, that may have been a tad too telling as it has now been replaced with the TORTOISE which portrays slow and steady, the motto of their tortoise is “When I strike, I strike hard”.
The Fabius Maximus of Australia is Gough Whitlam, the list of Politicians who are are members of the Fabians is horrifically large, such key politicians as Paul Keating, Bob Hawke, Barry Jones, John Button, John Dawkins, Gareth Evans and Bill Hayden just to name a very small sample.
Then there are the Fabian infiltraitors within our bureaucracies and other areas of influence such as Race Mathews, Laurie Carmichael, Bill Kelty, Phil Ruthven, John Halfpenny, Rev Peter Hollingworth,etc…Lionel Murphy and Arthur Calwell were also members. cont
The list of Fabian policies, publications and conferences is awesome and leaves absolutely no doubt as to their political intent!!!
The Fabian Society is a KEY COMPONENT of the global mechanism that is transferring control and ownership of Australia to the forces of GLOBALISATION.
Using the tactics of Fabius Maximus, the Fabians are clearly succeeding in their restructuring of the Australian ECONOMY, it has been carried out so well that the populace of Australia are completely UNAWARE that it has happened.
Bob Hawk the 8th May 1984 one of the facts that he stated was, I quote “I gladly acknowledge the debt of my own government to Fabianism”. He also said in that speech, “The Fabian Society acknowledges the principal tenet of Marxism, the abolition of private property, in this case to own land. They then align themselves with the non-violent arm of Marxism by accepting the non-violent road of patient gradualism to total government.”
We now know that communism or socialism is Marxism. If we look at Russia for the past 7 years, whilst the Russian people were being good Communists, the people in the Kremlin were living it up with stretch limousines business jets, holiday cottages an all the luxury living exclusively for themselves. The worst of it of course, was the fact that they were using the people’s money, not to better the country but to build up a massive army with which they thought they would conquer the whole world and establish a world wide dictatorship. They spent the people’s money as if it were their own pocket money. The result: Russia went bankrupt and the people tossed the Kremlin out. The West also suffers a great debt from countering the Marxist threat.
What a waste of money and resources.
What we are now asking is for any of those on the Fabian list to come forward and explain themselves. We have the right to know what they are doing. After all we pay their wages and elected them to represent us in parliament to do what we think is best for us, We are asking, is this truly a conspiracy against us. If it is, it is treasonous. Our trust has been outraged. None of those on the list are truly elected members of parliament because they gained their positions by deception. We may just have an illegitimate government. Could this be.
My information tells me something quite disgusting as regards the new gun laws, Under many of the United Nations new agreements is one which orders the disarmament of all citizens world wide including Australia
Instead of Mr. Howard telling us this, he seized the Port Arthur tragedy as a scapegoat to implement this disarmament. How despicable. Just look at it. One and a half billion dollars to buy back guns basically because 35 people died at the hands of a mental case Some feel that jus half a billion dollars towards mental health would have averted the disaster. The other billion could save not just 35 lives but hundreds of lives
THE PRICE OF LIBERTY IS ETERNAL VIGILANCE
I also wanted to add that being ‘left’ or even ‘liberal’ doesn’t necessarily mean that there is no value on working to get ahead. As I mentioned previously, the liberal minded parties here (as I suspect as is common elsewhere) were built on the foundation of ordinary people, born without privelege, who built a life for themselves mostly with their bare hands.The formation of unions was to fight against exploitation by the privileged classes.I think unions have gone way too far at times, but I have to admit, there have also been times when I wished I had a union to go to for help.To me, the idea of social-justice and welfare is not just about being lazy and providing ‘hand-outs’ but looking after those who are genuinely disadvantaged and unable to look after themselves.I see this as how a community should operate, not just cutting off the weak members because they are inconveniently unable to contribute in a way that is deemed valuable.Michel Foucault figures largely in my views on this…particularly the books, ‘Discipline and Punish’, ‘The history of Sexuality’ and ‘Psychiatric Power’.
JL…I don’t want to get drawn into a long drawn out conversation on Australian politics, because…well, this is a Hungarian forum. What I am talking about is the assumption that liberal=left=communist, which is just not true.
By the way, I read the final report on the guns buy back scheme. I don’t see how it serves the community to have large numbers of concealable side-arms or automatic assault weapons in the general community…or machine guns from Spitfires…or even the anti-aircraft guns acquired through the scheme.I’ll argue with anyone who thinks that arming the population is a good idea.I think it’s moronic.
@Cinaed
You honetly believe that Fabian, Freemason, Club of Rome are all just make me feel good clubs?
Gee the Pains of Being Pure at Heart ! “were built on the foundation of ordinary people”
Dont be so gullible… there being manipulated by the above groups like blind sheep.
You can’t even have a Sling Shot in Australia!!
And what should you use a Sling Shot to?
Shoot
- Squirrels, oh that is cruel
- Police Officers, that is illegal
- other people, see above
Vicking NO!! Against Cane Toads and Magpies!
Gee I would love to see A Swede like yourself wading through a creek on Dingo beach Nth QLd
Look out for those logs floating along the banks
Do they have venomous spiders or serpents in Australia ?
This “John Laws” character writes like he’s been bitten:
Fabian society = secret constipation (sorry I mean conspiration) = gun abolition = marxism = what else ?
Thanks for the reply Justasking… You all start to sound reasonable sometimes when prodded!
Except John Law’s fixation of the “Fabian Society”… has ANYONE (outside Mason-conspiracy-site-circles) here even HEARD of that group?! Maybe I’m just a newbie but I’m not hearing a major groundswell of Fabian-inspired politicians, but I may be missing something…
Whenever I hear people complaining about the Freemasons and the like, I hear a cuckoo clock chime somewhere…
He makes a little sense about the usefulness of a gun in croc country, but a big “WTF?” on the Fabian stuff…
@ Cinaed;
It’s so good to hear from you. Did the “big day” already happen? If it did, all the best and if it has not yet…all the best.
It’s funny how life throws situations at you and has you doing things that you vowed you’d never do. So in answer to your question… Would I vote the “other side” if at some point I felt their policies reflected my own values, I probably would. John Laws was quite correct in my opinion, when he said that the Conservs and Libs are totally different than in Hungary. At least the ones in Canada are.
@ Bystander;
I find that the majority of the people on this site are reasonable. Yes, there are people here that rub each other the wrong way and seem to bring out the worst in one another. Then again, what does one expect when talking about politics, religion etc. Like the saying goes…Opinions are like assholes, everybody thinks that theirs don’t stink. How that for a barrage of imagery? In any event, this site is hardly ever boring.
The Incredible evidence behind The Truth About
Bali Bombings yet to be released will indeed show
that on the night of the Sari club blast in Kuta
Bali, 5 Camouflaged uniformed Dead soldiers bodies
were removed from Sangrah Hospital in Denpasar and
loaded onto a plane (By people unknown) to be
scooted off to Singapore THAT NIGHT.
What is known is simply incredible. 1) The plane
that carried these complicit parties in the Bali
Bombings was an Israeli registered Beechair
Aircraft.
2) Its arrival at Ngurah Rai airport and its
departure was attempted to be concealed by
manipulating the Airport log books. (But not
manipulated well enough to be completely concealed
from reporter Damaso Reyes) and
3) Of the 5 Soldiers bodies, one was identified as
a Brazilian Sgt with a UN observation team
SUPPOSED to be over 800 km away on mission in East
Timor.
Speculation as to how 5 camouflaged Soldiers even
managed to get caught in a “nightclub” blast so
far away from their Posts of Duty have yet to be
answered. Answer these questions and uncover the
real culprits behind one of the worlds most single
destructive blasts in a civilian populated area.
The Incredible evidence behind The Truth About
John Laws yet to be released will indeed show
that on the night of the 4th december in this site
the H was removed from his first name so he is now Jon Laws – so wtf ?
oh, here we go…bali blast conspiracies. …and I suppose the 5 soldiers were there to plant the mini-nuke when it inadvertantly went off in their hands.Whatever.
Zsuzsa, hi.Yes the big day has happened…and it’s a whole new world from now. I think JL actually hijacked my argument, which was precisely that what passes for left and right parties in other countries is not consistent, which is why the comments of people in this forum who say that because you’re ‘left’ you’re a communist are ludicrous. By that judgement, you, who identify yourself as being ‘leaning right but not horizontal’ could be seen as being ‘left’ and therefore a communist by definition. I agree it’s a pointless argument, which is what I was trying to highlight.
JL:when I was a kid, my parents were in a fundamentalist church.This church always had various ‘evangelists’ coming through talking about the masons, the fabians, the evils of rhodes scholars etc. Your post made me think of all that hype and hysteria.My humble suggestion is don’t waste your life getting sucked into that world. It’s like the tar baby from the br’er rabbit stories.
@Cinaed
Appears you are in the mainstream of brainwashed
children of Australia.
Stick to the facts and don’t have the switch in
your programmed mind flick onto the position of
conspiracy.
As a kind person as yourself you should be fully
aware of the tactics of mind control whom your
scholars and associations develop the razzle
dazzle schemes of how best to justify the
propaganda!
Most people in these profession are fooled
themselves by believing the false evidence
presented by the likes of Michael Usher on 6o
mins.
Hmmmm I really wonder about your motives Cinaed ??
Just prior to Bali bombing the Howard government
was pressured by international US and UN to send
troops to Iraq!
All over the nation of Australia there were huge
demonstrations to stop the war on Iraq to STOP the
troops from going.
I myself attended the demonstrations and in my
whole life never experienced such a huge crowd of
people united for a cause so powerful as this one.
However the Murdoch and Packer media campaigns
continued with W.O.M.D in Iraq until the only
alternative was for the US to intervene and create
a false flag in BALI just one of many manipulative
events in Australian history, after the emotional
propaganda of memorials etc etc bombarding the TV
zombies and main tabloids for months public
support changed and in favor of the Howards
government to send the troops. Continued
Ohh this made me shiver, and this is the society
being breed globally, it’s no conspiracy the facts
are all there if you want to seek the truth.. Don’t
be a fool..
LISTEN AND WATCH THE FACTS OF THE VIDEO IT’S NO
CONSPIRACY!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBSAeTIvySk
Do me a favor Cinaed before sticking your nose into
Hungarian politics do a bit more research in your
own backyard.
Dear John Laws
Well explained I saw the documentary several months
ago and it was so moving, and unfortunately in
Australia people only have two parties they vote for
and both are being lead by the establishment.
Australians are lost souls, the majority anyway.
Keep up the interesting flow of information, Martin
Bryant has a huge question mark over his head,
another false government and media propaganda to
disarm the nation.
I’m so glad not be living there because it is hell
dressed up as paradise.
@Law and Jon Laws and all the other crazy constipation theorists (yes those conspiration theories give me constipation!):
This is a site about Hungarian matters and not about lunatic psychotics and their theories (told to them by those nagging voices in their head or by some visitor from outer space) who would be better of in an asylum somewhere!
Keep your feces to yourself – it stinks too much!
Well JL, you can question my motives if you like. You won’t find much other than what I’ve already said. What’s this business about Iraq? I was against the invasion of Iraq. I still think invading was the wrong thing to do, but it has been done now and the best thing from now on is to help the country build a strong, stable and peaceful society.By the way, calling me part of the ‘brainwashed mainstream’ is not useful either. So with that said, can we get back to the issue at hand?
Blaming Jews for everything is a national pastime in Hungary.
Useless and corrupt governments on the other hand are, undoubtedly, a fact of life in Hungary.
Vándorló is correct in shunning the whole rotten
batch of incapable and inefficient Hungarian political parties. Erik makes the case with his posting @ 15 Oct. In that the majority of Hungarians feel the same way.
What are the alternatives? Everybody -including me,avoid answering/addressing this question?
Computer issues, horse and donkey meat, cherry blossom…er??, nerds who post the same bullshit, time and time, again seem more important.
“I’m not trying to put Hungarians down, on the contrary, I’m suggesting that I think the international community really does need to be patient and do as much as possible to help Hungarians create an environment that encourages positive growth.”
Who? How? And Why?
Sandor: If you had read the entire context of that post, you should have seen the answers to your questions. What I said was that the international community would help Hungary by relieving it of much of the debt burden it inherited from the communist period. I’m sick of repeating that. What I also said though was that while their is some responsibility on the international community, it is up to Hungarians themselves to make their governments more accountable by getting more involved in the electoral process by 1)actually turning up to vote. 2)being informed and involved in politics between elections. The never-ending revolving door of blame and recrimination solves nothing. Thanks for calling me a nerd though, at least it makes me literate.
All: For the unitiated, the ‘actual’ John Laws is a radio commentator/talk back host. His claim to fame is ‘keeping the dream alive’ by standing up for ‘ordinary Australians’. He constantly bangs on about the ‘flood of illegal immigrants’ and the evils of the ‘UUUnited States’. He uses ‘plain language’ to say really offensive and even untrue things.To be more accurate, he feeds off the paranoia and gullibility of the elderly, the disaffected and the ignorant.He is richer than God and owns a fleet of classic cars. A few years back he got in huge trouble for taking kick-backs from companies to fraudulently claim that he was voluntarily recommending products that in fact he was getting paid to promote. The guy is as dirty as Gyurcsany
I do agree with Sandor though that political affairs in Australia have little to do with this forum, apart from the fact that there are some 50-55000 Hungarians in Australia. The only reason I started on that was to say that Hungarians calling left-leaning voters from other countries ‘communists’ is ridiculous as has been laboured far too much already, the political divide is different in every country.
By the way JL, I have three degrees in Sociology, with one research supervisor being a foremost expert in international development, one being in the top 200 of published writers in the Asia Pacific region, one who writes policy for the health department, one who is an expert on issues of women’s rights and social equality, one who was personally involved in the formation of the new nation of East Timor after the Indonesians were kicked out and one who was an advisor to Nelson Mandella during his presidency. Oh, and a close personal friend of mine was also a policy advisor to a federal minister and as such worked in Parliament House…met the PM (Howard) and opposition leaders regularly and still maintains contacts in both state and federal parliament.I also watch more documentaries than is probably healthy and spend most of my spare time reading academic literature.
How much more research should I do? I know, I don’t listen to your hero’s radio show enough. My apologies.
@Cinaed
As I expected, your one of them.
I figured as much. Anyone who does actually take it on as their conscientious objective to do something to improve institutions instantly becomes ‘one of them’. Of course the only honourable thing to do is to sit on the side-lines and spit at the players. Of course it’s pointless telling you all about how I and the people I mentioned have risked their livelihoods, their reputations and in some cases even their lives for what they believed in. Of course it’s pointless to remind you of what I have said ad nauseum about the injustice of the system, or to quote my own research (which would undoubtedly seem egotistical by the thinking people on the site) What has John Laws ever done for anyone? What have you ever done for anyone? …and you wonder why no-one takes you seriously.
@Cinaed
Who said I’m the same person? Your tactics are
predictable.
JL…next time you buy fish and chips, say ‘hi’ to Pauline. I knew one of the ‘one nation’ candidates. He was a gun toting, racist red-neck. He nearly shot himself when he tried to shoot a snake in his car while he was driving around tearing up the countryside in his SUV.
…for everyone else’s information, ‘One Nation’ was the Australian version of Jobbik, who’s leader was Pauline Hanson. She was a fish and chip shop owner from an area reknowned for nationalist tendencies and boorish behaviour. Her ‘party’ experienced some early success as she seemed to strike a chord with people disgruntled with the ‘establishment’.After a relatively short time in the public eye, however, her party lost all support as it became obvious they had no real solutions other than banning this group, or outlawing that behaviour. Her most often quoted phrase was ‘please explain’ after being asked if she was xenophobic. She became a laughing stock and is still now joked about as being a crank and a ‘flash in the pan’. Perhaps this could be a lesson for others…
So again I ask, what more should I do? What are you doing for your community? Who is actually better off for your behaviour and your rhetoric? You obviously know nothing of how universities or political institutions work.Do you think John Laws gives a crap about the people he pretends to speak for? If you think he does, you’re a bigger sucker than you realise.
@Cinaed
Spitting the dummy,appears like you lost the plot.
Incidentally, on the 2009 Corruption perception index, Australia ranks 8th in the world.
@Cinaed
You’re more dangerous then any civil servant if the
claims of you’re background are true, with one
stroke of a pen you KILL people and institutionalize
them.
You’re the most dangerous person in any community,
you have been exposed. You have a big Ego son!
“Valvoline, you know what I mean”
Wow, Jo(h)n Law found his H again – now if he found sense in his crazy rantings too – but that is too much to expect from those fringe nuts…
@Cinaed:
It’s no use trying to reason with those crazies – but of course you know that, it’s more of a game to guess how they’ll react (I do it too sometimes).
Have a nice sunday!
It would appear that JL not only found his ‘h’, but he also found his apostrophe…funny thing is, he still has it wrong.
…so, let me get this straight, it is perfectly justifiable and rational to call for the expulsion of Jews or to condone violence against Gypsies, but when it comes to asking legitimate questions that expose the utter hypocrisy and stupidity of extremist posters, that is ‘spitting the dummy’. Of course, the final one just made me laugh…institutionalising people with the stroke of a pen.
If you knew anything about me, you would realise how foolish that comment makes you look. Would you like to read some key sections from my thesis?
This an anti-Hungarian Jewish hate garbage dump
@justasking: Kedves Zsuzsi, If I ever gave you the impression that anything I wrote about Ольга applies to you I apologize. It has never even occurred to me that you’re in the same category. After all you’re a ZSUZSA and not a Hungarian TATYANA or SVETLANA born in Rákosi-Rosenfeld’s Hungary. Nor do I think that all Canadian Hungarians are Commie babies but, let’s face it, the kanadai magyarság is as divided as the otthoni. On one hand there are decent folk like yourself on the other we have the Munks, the Lantoses and the Reichmanns; their whores like Porter and their hülyeemberek (buffoons, idiots) like our own prekrasnaya Ольга.
@Ольга: “Liberal/Left you are Communist?” You’re all Marxists: uplifting rhetoric, horrible deeds… Or at least the result of your ‘high minded’ (read mindless) philosophy is always a disaster destroying whatever achievements a civilization has managed to master. Drink your own toxic brew… “TOP SECRET Ottawa, January 24th, 1951″ By 1957 when the ex and not so ex apparatchiks started to pour in, Canada was a different country. COMPLETELY different. “Ontario itself is a huge Communist stronghold” The Toronto Magyar Ház is actually one of my favorite Hungarian places outside Hungary. No one I’ve ever met here had your virus…
@Schwuli: “Of course Europe has to be united…” The ‘EU’ is a US client with Germany under military occupation and the UK as Chomsky puts it a ‘pillion traveler.’ As for Hungary’s position in that there equation: we’re a vassal’s vassal. So, why should we even be against China?
@Pavaszem: Being a Homophobe is another one of your “Patriotic Virtues” besides being anti-Jew, anti-Roma, anti-foreigners in general – you poor jobo creature – it must hurt a lot…
At least your psychotic rantings show everybody “Wes Geistes Kind” you are…
All the bad things one could imagine about you fascists are true, it seems.
@Wolfi
Virtues are something you should live by which the common Neo Libs have no idea how crucial this aspect of life is in creating a better society collectively. Then again the Neo Liberal Elite know this secret and keep this information from the common people so they can divied and rule them.
@Grenzdebil: “Homophobe… anti-Jew, anti-Roma, anti-foreigners… fascist” You’re so original… How about ‘anti-moron,’ numbnuts? “Wes Geistes Kind” It certainly does, doesn’t it? Too bad you weren’t programmed to get anything I have said you mindless cattle, Diederich…
@Pávaszem & Law
Legfontosabb Jobbikba és Magyar Gárdába hogy Magyar! Bizalmat és reményt ad a kommunista mszp/szdsz mafia nyúzta magyaroknak akiket a rendőrség nem véd meg se a cigánybünözőktől se az mszp/szdsz kommunista harácsolóitól. Jó tudni hogy vannak olyanok akik büszkék hogy magyarok és mernek magyar zászlokal büszkén felsorakozni. Ez kezdetnek nagyon, nagyon jó.
Adjon az Isten szebb jövőt minden igaz magyarnak!
@Mark: Do they not speak and teach Hungarian in Houston, Texas? Get in touch with these people: http://www.americanhungarianfederation.org/
p.s. Pávaszem would understand you (though you don’t make it easy to work out what you are trying to say) but Law is as Hungarian as you appear to be, only his Hungarian is worse. He can’t even define what a Hungarian is in Hungarian. You ‘patriots’ really are something.
“Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain – and most fools do.” Dale Carnegie.
I ma not interested in debating you about anything because you are one of the Hungarian haters on this list. However, out of curiosity, how would you change the Hungarian text and what parts do you consider so poorly written that it called for your irrational outburst?
I would also be interested what the proper Hungarian version would be in your opinion.
@ Mark
Did you past this a couple of days ago and if you did, what exactly did you man? (I thought I knew by your postings contradict your othr postings)
“This an anti-Hungarian Jewish hate garbage dump”
You are from Texas? Tom in a previous life?
@olga
Posting a smear against Hungarians by the criminal and Communist Mazsihisz leaders without telling who these people are is anti-Hungarian bias.
I do not know what you mean by “Tom” but I had a neighbor and a friend named Tom who is a patriotic American and NRA member. He lives in Illinois.
As I grew up in Hungary, the Rakosi government was made up mostly of Jews. The majority of dreaded AVO leaders were also Jewish. Most important Government positions, factory directors, government bureaus and such were headed by Jews. I grew up under Jewish/Communist terror. I recall a saying from those days that the only reason they put a Hungarian in the Rakosi government was to have someone sign the execution orders on Saturday. That is the life I knew as a child in Hungary.
It does not mean that all Jews were Communist and that only Jews were Communists but when Mazsihisz, packed with Communists and AVO starts smearing Hungarians I cannot help but recall my childhood these horrible, horrible people robbed me.
I hope it helps.
@ Mark
I understand your feelings about the Communist terror. I hope you do not deny the Holocaust; there was a Nazi terror as well.
Today’s Germans are not responsible for Hitler and today’s Hungarian politicians like Mesterhazy are not responsible for Rakosi, Stalin and others.
Hungary needs a political parties that give viable alternatives and not one that divides and makes a laughing stock of Hungary.
Canada and the USA had viable alternatives – Hungary deserves the same.
Do you not think it’s time to move on?
Do you actually believe that Hungary is the Number 1 target for the Jews and they are teaching Israeli kids to learn Hungarian? As insane as the theory that the H1N1 flue shot is a giant government conspiracy to kill people (Courtesy of a Law posting)
Do you realize that anyone who has the slightest Left wing ideas is labeled a Communist or a Jew? Wolfi has the privilege of being both a Nazi and a Jew.
Glad to hear you are not Tom from Texas – long boring story not worth going into.
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