The ruling Socialist party supports the idea of easing conditions for ethnic Hungarians who wish to apply of dual citizenship, people close to the discussions told MTI on condition of anonymity.
The opposition Fidesz-Christian Democratic alliance submitted a bill on making it easier for ethnic Hungarians living outside the country to obtain dual citizenship on October 12. Under the proposed bill, signed by two Christian Democrat and one Fidesz MP, applicants by Hungarian minorities for citizenship would not be required to live permanently in Hungary.
After leading Socialists met to discuss their standpoint on the issue late on Tuesday, people involved in the discussion told MTI that the minority ruling party does not back the bill in its current form but would be open to supporting it with two provisions.
First, only Hungarians resident in the country should have the right to vote. Second, only Hungarian taxpayers should have access to social services.
The bill only applies to Serbian ethnic Hungarians because Serbia is not yet a member of the European Union.
Will it work the other way? Will I as a resident non-Hungarian taxpayer have right to vote? The alternative strikes me as discsriminatory; Hungarians can have dual citizenship, non-Hungarians can’t.
In the words of the famous mediaeval Hungarian House of Árpád chronicler and theologian, McClaneus János, “Üdvözlet a bulihoz srácok!”
http://www.killerclips.com/clip.php?id=70&qid=611
Was not this site supposed to be in English? Every day I open it, I find it overcrowded with Hungarian dialogs (or monologs), not to talk about the eternal shouting against foreigners – in more than approximate English, probably learnt from rap music – who would better shut up and contemplate Hungarian intelligence in action! Close this site, make it Hungarian and solve the problem! But do not show it as a part of ‘the Hungarian portal’. Or God knows, maybe this the real Hungarian portal…
John, the reason Magyars are here so much is that a few sad Hungarians find it funny to come and attempt to wind up foreigners as a form of entertainment. They don’t realize that the joke’s on them because they obviously aren’t here to express themselves – if they wanted to do that they’d go to a Hungarian site.
By the way, Sophist, it’s not discriminatory: Hungarians decide who can vote here, it’s up to other countries to decide who can vote there. Your home country can choose to grant you dual citizenship if it wants.
Sophist,
I do not really understand your question, because the article is about citizenship to be given to Hungarians living in Vojvodina, in order that they can easily cross the Shengen border to Hungary.
You wrote, you already live in Hungary, so if you like the country you may apply for citizenship and then you may vote.
com-FG,
But I would have to give up my UK citizenship!
I also think the law can’t be restricted to ethnic Hungarians living inside the borders of pre-Trianon Hungary. What about the children of emigre Hungarians in Canada, etc? What about the Csango Hungarians living in Moldova?
In reality granting dual-nationality to whomever
will just mean more truck loads of gypsies
entering post-Trianon Hungary and depleting its already dwindling resources with their dependence on welfare.
If anyone is in any doubt about Magyarorszag’s ability to entertain any more ciganyok please come and visit the hundreds of villages across Hungary. They are overrun with the “nomadic” type and work, for them, is none existent. Local government is a shambles and the MSZP government has done nothing to tackle the ever-growing problems of rural life.
Major towns/cities like Siofok are in total “meltdown” i.e. economic decline also. Bleak news indeed. But the truth nevertheless!
Sophist,
Hungarians scattered around the world would not benefit much of this citizenship, since they relatively seldom travel to Hungary unlike Hungarians in surrounding countries.
Hungarians in the sub-Carpathian region in Ukraine however would benefit much from citizenship, but unfortunately Ukraine does not allow dual citizenship, as far as I know. So their situation is similar to yours in this regard.
Csangos are also EU citizens, and the Shengen area would include Romania soon too, hopefully.
com-FG,
“Hungarians scattered around the world would not benefit much of this citizenship”
There has already been some discussion on this site about the advantages of an EU passport to diaspora Hungarians. Under the no-vote, no-welfare proposal above the only other advantage to post-Trianon Hungarians will only come if they move to Hungary.
Sophist,
“..only other advantage to post-Trianon Hungarians will only come if they move to Hungary.”
Please, do not disregard the ease of border crossing. Especially, if one is commuting for work. It is common to wait for hours just to clear the Shengen border if you do not hold an EU passport.
regardless what they oppose or the scum psuedo liberal degenarte westrn forget you are automatically a citizen by birthright when the west stared thier genocide they didnt and couldnt take thier citizenship away when they stool our land
Hello,
Both my grandparents are Hungarian; my father was born in Italy after the WWII, and I was born in South America.
Does anybody know if the new regulation also applies for ethnic Hungarians overseas?
Many thanks for your reply!
Marton
PS. To have a website in English on Magyar topics is highly appreciated by those who, like me, speak but cannot read Magyar.. and want to keep the ties with Hungary.
Marton,
It is still not a regulation, only a proposal. Some parties opposes and others support citizenship to Hungarians overseas.
Do you think that citizenship would mean much to you? Please share your thoughts if you like.
Marton;
That is a tricky one. As far as I understand it…your Father would have to apply first and then you could…if you were under 18, then your Father could apply on your behalf. Your Dad would have to prove that your Grandparents were born in Hungary ie: Birth Certificate, or anyother “Hungarian” type of ID,(this has to be submitted with your application) if they have anything left. You can also apply for a copy of your Grandparents Birth Certifs directly from Hungary, The Hungarian Consulate/Embassy could help you on all of this as well as give you any forms that you require. The impression that I got when I applied for mine was that if you have a drop of Hungarian blood in you, you qualify/your in. Good-luck.
true what justasking said…..
And foreigners who want to have the hungarian citizenship have to choose a 100% for it….so no dual citizenship for them.
Although I think that given them the hungarian citizenship in the first place is a bad idea. I see no positive reasons for us hungarians and also none for the foreigner accept those guys who come here to get into the EU….but they have to be denied acces to the country as fast as possible and the ones already here moved out…to western europe, it was their idea anyway (mass imigration)
Geza;
With a decline in birthrate and an increase in aging population…who is going to support the services that Hungarians have come to expect ie: Health Care, Pensions, etc if not for immigration? I kinda of understand your point of view, but the reality is, the amount of “native” Hungarians in the decline there really is no choice.
Thank you for your kind replies, “com-FG” and “Justasking”.
Com-FG, about the meaning of the citizenship.. of course it is important to me (in a way I cannot really explain with words but with feelings). My family has been Hungarian (my grandparent fought as many others Hungarians in the WWII, and my great grandparent did the same in the Great War).
Although knowing aspects of Hungary (as magyar history, languange, or even politics and sports) are not that useful here in the New World, and may even seem a bit eccentric, we care for them, and we try to preserve them despite being overseas. We cannot do otherwise. We have Magyarország carved on the palm of our hands.
We have not applied to the citizenship yet, because, honestly, we think that a paper document does not certify or accredit nothing: neither your interest nor your commitment with a country. On the other hand, I have recently concluded that it may be a sort of incentive to keep the next generation from forgetting their roots, and, I hope, to return some day.
Géza: “I think that given them the hungarian citizenship in the first place is a bad idea”. That makes me question a few things: who do you think has the right to declare a person Hungarian? and more important, who is “Hungarian” to your standards? Is (or should be) the birthplace an absolute requirement? Or maybe the knowledge of the language? Or the traditions? The ethnicity? Perhaps the last name?
Again, thank you very much for your replies!
@ Marton;
I really hope that you do apply for your Citizenship, it is available to you so why not! You saying that the importance in having a Hungarian Citizenship to you is a “feeling” that is hard to explain, I get it. It’s like some people who say that a Marriage Certificate is just a piece of paper. To some it is just that and to others it makes all the difference in the world. Is it a kind of “legitimacy” if you will? Who knows, Cinaed would know more about that.
Interestingly enough, I just posted an entry to my own blog on a related topic. In essence, I was saying that while it may be easy to rationalise culture down to ‘social familiarity’, there is something far deeper and more important to people than simply that. I know that although I carry the citizenship of my country of birth, I still feel a strong cultural connection with the place from which my ancestors originated. One of the books I mentioned previously had a really interesting chapter in it about the existence of the soul. Just summarising, it was saying that while there may be a lot of argument about what constitutes the ‘soul’, whether it be a subconscious, meta-physical extension of our existence, or some spiritual connection, the fact that humans act and interact as they do mean that the presence of the soul is undeniable…in relation to culture, therefore, the same can be said for the connection to familial or cultural origin.I watched a fantastic documentary about ancient pagan traditions of how the generations of houses were literally built on the bones of the forefathers…sounds macabre I know, but it was saying that it really demonstrated the very human need to feel close to those who came before us, even if they came long before we were born.
(cont)
As for Hungary, I think the current era is more than just a ‘post-communist transition’.After centuries of occupation and manipulation from external powers, right now is a time of readjustment to something approaching self-determination and self-actualisation.It is no wonder that so many Hungarians are asking themselves what it means to be Hungarian, and are applying themselves to this quest so passionately.Even in terms of the Gypsy issue and accession to the EU, I think there is something to be said for it being related to Hungarians’ going through the process of discovering/rediscovering just what and who they are.
For Marton, therefore, I totally understand what he means about Hungary being etched into the palm of his hand, and the overwhelming need to pursue Hungarian citizenship…and I think it is part of this greater collective sense of home-coming that is a natural part of social evolution.Hungary certainly needs its lost sons and daughters to come home, even if just to revitalise the country and bring back the human resources it has lost.I think that it’s possible to see a ‘home-calling’ as being a very deep connection between people, and whether you see it as a spiritual, ethereal or complex evolutionary process, the our point of origin is probably where we will find our ‘soul’ and along with it a ‘true’ or at least ‘truer’ sense of our own identity.
@Justasking,
I think this year or maybe next, I’m going to apply to it (of course, I will tell you how it was)!
@Cináed,
100% agree with your views on the matter. Is your blog related to social psychology topics? Could you send us the web address? Thanks again!
@Marton: “Could you send us the web address?” Just click on his name, it takes you to it: http://never-a-protege.webs.com/
Marton;
Good for you! But why the wait if you don’t mind me asking?
Anyhow, join us at Cinaed website and we’ll talk there more if you want.
Fidesz should only agree to support a dual citizenship law that is fair and acceptable to Kárpát Medence Hungarians. Why compromise with the enemies of Hungary so close to the election?
Marton,
“Both my grandparents are Hungarian; my father was born in Italy after the WWII, and I was born in South America.
Does anybody know if the new regulation also applies for ethnic Hungarians overseas?”
I read some years ago a very good definition of who is a Hungarian:
(1) Call yourself Hungarian
(2) Feel Hungarian
(3) Act as a Hungarian
Does someone have the Hungarian version of these if-and-only-if conditions?
Unless you feel all three in your heart, having a Hungarian passport would mean nothing. It would mean nothing even if you, your parents, your grandparents and your grandparents’ grandparents were all Hungarian born.
I tried to search for the 3 points you mentioned below even though i haven’t seen it written i have heard this in speeches by patriotic Hungarians so it must be out there, when you Google “Magyar Lenni”
There are so many sites which appear. I can snse you are true in the Heart! and proud to have another Hungarian awaken, cheers Tom
(1) Call yourself Hungarian
(2) Feel Hungarian
(3) Act as a Hungarian
Unless you feel all three in your heart
@Marton
I don’t think I meet the noble criteria for having a Hungarian passport but I have one and so do my Toronto born kids. I was a child when my parents left in ’56. I am proud of being Hungarian and more interested in the country than
my husband is in Ireland or the UK birthplace of his grand parents
Steps I took:
Filled out a lot of forms – I do have both my Hungarian Birth Certificate and Baptismal certificate and also my parents’ birth, marriage and baptismal certificates – very helpful. Everyone was born in BP including grandparents The forms asked the “kerulet” number everyone was born in -(districts in BP) Luckily info was on the documents.
I also had to submit my marriage certificate and both my Toronto born kids’ birth certificates (they were over 20 yrs old so not exactly children) These 3 documents were in English and I had to pay to have them translated by one of the Hungarian Embassy’s translators.
Anyway, months later I received the 3 passports plus 2 Hungarian birth certificates for my kids along with a Hungarian marriage certificate. All 3 documents were in Hungarian and now registered in BP.
My Toronto born husband would not be eligible for a passport unless he met a residence requirement in Hungary.
On the other hand, my grand children, great grand children etc etc would be eligible provided each generation applied for a passport – Cannot be eligible through grandparents. At least, that was the rule a couple of years ago.
Law,
Thank you my friend. This is not a moderated list and no registration required. I do not know and care to know if you are posting from Australia but if you are, we owe thanks to Australia for someone as pro-Hungarian as you are.
Cheers mate
Marton;
Sorry there guy, for some reason I read that you were going to hold off applying for Citship in another year or two, hence the question. Ooops.
Anyhow, yeah I would like it if you kept me informed on how it is going for you once you apply.
I do not like to see people getting Hungarian or any other country’s citizenship unless they know the country, its history, culture and people and genuinely want to belong.
President Kennedy said it best: “ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country”.
Kárpát Medence Hungarians do not come under this definition because they did not leave their country – their country was stolen from them. They are entitled to Hungarian citizenship because they are.
Kárpát Medence Hungarians … are entitled to Hungarian citizenship because they are.
Tom at October 31, 2009 5:54 PM
—
As I written before, not even East-Germans did get West-German passport before they crossed the border, even if Germany had the ‘blood-law’ (a drop of German blood and you are German). This drop of blood did though had to be proven individually.
This type of preferential laws are not so uncommon after a war where previous citizens were replaced.
To give out citizenship without any individual decision was something that was the general idea of the 2004 Referendum.
To have preferential treatment at individual checking is another thing, but to take away the demand that the person in question must live in Hungary, will be taken as a aggressive act by the other country.
In the discussions have been mentioned that this would only be valid for the Hungarian minority in Serbia, so they could travel visa-free into Hungary.
The question is why the Serbian Government, or the Serbian population, would think this is a good idea? For them it would be a better idea to give all Serbian citizens visa-free travel to Hungary (which would then not be allowed to continue on in the Schengen-zone).
Serbia will not disappear, they are going to be inside the EU in 5 years(?), so why create a problem for the Hungarian minority for a piece of paper?
If of course exactly that is the real reason?
@Tom;
I do not advocate that a person just apply for Citship if it means nothing to them, why waste ones time and money. It’s like applying for a credit card at a store just so that you get that extra 20% off your purchase, knowing that you’ll never use that card ever again. The impression I got from Marton, was that he sees himself as a Hungarian even though he was born elsewhere, hence my support in him seeking what I feel is his birthright.
@Viking:
Giving the East Germans new passports was not a real problem – the “blood law” generated a lot of problems when people from all over the former Soviet Union came into Germany and asked for recognition as Germans.
I don’t have exact numbers, but it must have been more than half a million people.
Many of the so called Schwabs integrated very quickly.
But some came, not really speaking German and had many problems, some even went back to the east of the former USSR.
There is a very bad joke about these people: Hey, I am from Russia and I want a German passport because my grandfather had a German shepard dog once…
It must have been really difficukt for these people from the Russian provinces to adjust to life in a modern industrial society like Germany. I wonder what would happen if all those “New Hungarians” wanted to live in Hungary too…
@Tom and Law: Let me get this right, you two
clowns want to dictate to others about what it
means to be a real Hungarian, but you can’t
translate those simple sentences into Hungarian?
You lot crack me up.
Magyar az, aki…
1.magyarnak nevezi/tartja magát
2.magyarnak érzi magát (a szívében, a lelkében)
3.magyarként viselkedik
Here’s one more, that may be more relevant. A
Hungarian is someone who can translate the 3
premises of Hungarianess.
4.Magyar az, akinek magyarra tudja lefordítani
ezeket a feltételeket.
With which you can now start working your way up
to producing such sentences as “szégyellje magát
mindenki aki magyarnak nevezi magát és nem
csatlakozik valódi a hazafias erőkhöz” (roughly
‘anyone who calls themselves Hungarian, but
doesn’t unite with the true force of their
brothers in arms should be assamed of themselves’)
or some other sort of bollocks.
Logically you would also have to include a fifth
premise, to the effect that a Hungarian would by
definition have to accept the three premises you
assert to be the pons asinorum of a real
Hungarian, namely:
5.Magyar az, aki elfogadja ezeket a (fenti)
feltételeket.
cont…
@Tom and Law:
5.Magyar az, aki elfodagja ezeket a (fenti)
feltételeket.
But then, what of all those that accept the first
three premises, but reject the 5th? Are they still
Hungarian?
This is a variation of the Russell’s paradox.
Without accepting the fifth premise you end with a
situation in which you may have a Hungarian
fulfils the definition of being Hungarian, but
denies the importance of those conditions, or visa
versa. As Russell and Whitehead tried to explain
this paradox in their work to rid plain set theory
of this anomaly: “It might be assumed that, for
any formal criterion, a set exists whose members
are those objects (and only those objects) that
satisfy the criterion; but this assumption is
disproved by a set containing exactly the sets
that are not members of themselves.”
Perhaps more importanly, all your definitions fail
as logical premises that can be used as the basis
on any argument or reasoning on the grounds that
they all involve the logical fallacy of petitio
principii – begging the question or a recursive
definition as it is more commonly known.
I feel a rap coming on, all together now:
http://video.xfree.hu/?
n=ajsa|e05dd3570e46e9b8a25f8fa8806a9f27
“@Tom and Law: Let me get this right, you two
clowns …”
Anything else you wrote after is of no concern to anyone who is interested in reasoned debate…
@Tom and Law: Since you are both true Hungarians by your own definition – funny how you left out the requirement to understand Hungarian – here is some logic for you, in your native tongue:
A logikai és nemlogikai szemlélet közötti különbséget jól mutatja a következő példa. Az:
Magyar az, aki magyarul beszél
Tom és Law nem beszél magyarul
Tehát Tom és Law nem magyar
Q.E.D.
Van:
“4.Magyar az, akinek magyarra tudja lefordítani
ezeket a feltételeket.”
Correctly:
Magyar az, aki Magyarra tudja fordítani ezeket a feltételeket.
Three HUGE errors (szarvashiba) in one sentence! Sit down son
you’ve failed! try the same class again next year…D)))))
@Vandorloo
Since when have i ever had to prove anyting to a wannabe Hungarian traitor as yourelf? Your type is the kind that are tearing the nation apart!
May we assume that everyone wholeheartedly agree that Magyarország a magyaroké?
Robi,
You may be a bit rough around the edges but your Hungarian hart is in the right place.
Good to see some patriotic Hungarians posting besides the usual professional Hungarian haters.
@Tom,
well I’m not western shithead smiling to your face than put the knife
into your back and call it being PC. Taking advantage in foreign
countries and whining in the meanwhile that locals are not happy is
not my style. And those edges of mine not only rough but sharp
too! D)
Robi,
The Hungarian haters were getting out of hand and you came just in time to balance things a bit. Do not let me hold you back
@Robi/Bob/Tibor…: “Magyar az, aki Magyarra tudja fordítani ezeket a feltételeket.” First thanks for the attempt at correcting me. Contrary to your corrections, allow me to correct both yours and mine. The correct sentence should have been:
Magyar az, aki magyarra le tudja fordítani ezeket a feltételeket.
@Tom,
Well I’m here often these sites are great source of entertainment
and fun for me!
But usually the nearly non-existing level of journalism does not
even worth shitting on it, it’s stinks so much! (Financed by Mr
Slotas neo-slavia, the maszop, conducted from Telaviv with the
help of the grabbing hands of Mr. Soros just to name a few of the
true “sponsors” of this site D))))
Soros can afford it. He stole enough from Hungarians.
@Tom
Mr Soros is just practicing the good old jewish tradition!
What is beyond me after what they done in the 30′s (and what
actually do now), why they so surprised that people hate them and
want to get rid of them?))) I don’t know their “edition” of the Book,
does it contain DONT STEAL?
@Robi: “I don’t know their “edition” of the Book,
does it contain DONT STEAL?” Deuteronomy 5:19 is held by Islam, Judaism and Christianity.
@vándor ló
Than why none of you keep it you jew fags? D))))) The company is
better in Hell ?))))))))
@Vandorlo
At least this guy is appreciates you to telling you what most of us
thinking about you. I usually just consider talking to you is just a
waste of breath since your kind never tells what’s you think and
your comments are only approving it! If you do not like Hungarians
it’s fine, but be honest (I know it’s a new word for you so look it up
in Webster) and move from a Hungarian domain this “shitpile”
named politics.hu…
@reparaszt: I surrender.
@Robi: Te jobban tudnád!
@reparaszt/Robi: Your level of intelligence is almost touching. Does the change of name make you feel like more people believe what you are saying. Do you manage to fool yourself, if no-one else? Bless you.
Is your level of paranoia what is touching! Not everybody echoes
your liberal lies, whatta surprise….
Robi,
You just proved that the 6th requirement to be a ‘True Hungarian’ is that you *must* hate Jews and Roma and every one else.
What you and Tom definitely do not understand is that we (if I may speak about myself in plural) do not ‘hate’ Hungarians, but we do have a problem with people who claim to be superior, regardless if they consider themselves ‘True Hungarians/Swedes/Jews’. It is just same shit, different colour.
Personally I love Hungary and people in general. I just do not give a dam if they are Chinese or Hungarians or even Roma, as long they do not have a problem with me or make a problem for me and or my family.
You should really learn to hate specific persons and not just people in general.
Maybe your mother abused you as a child, but try to come over that without blaming everyone around you for your short-comings.
@Viking:
I share your sentiments about Hungary (just wrote something on a different thread).
Let those “True Hungarians” like tom robi donizelli and so on rot in their Jobbik ideas – we know that everywhere you have some of these Nazi-type people. At least we live in Europe in the 21nd century and don’t have to worry about those maniacs getting to have any real power in the real world…
Whenever we feel like it, we can log in here – but we don’t have to and in the real world I don’t often hear those crazy shoutings…
wolfi,
True.
Zune and iPod: Most people compare the Zune to the Touch, but after seeing how slim and surprisingly small and light it is, I consider it to be a rather unique hybrid that combines qualities of both the Touch and the Nano. It’s very colorful and lovely OLED screen is slightly smaller than the touch screen, but the player itself feels quite a bit smaller and lighter. It weighs about 2/3 as much, and is noticeably smaller in width and height, while being just a hair thicker.