Although he is accused of corruption he is still at this time NOT GUILTY and will remain so unt6ill the verdict is returned!

While its true the justice system operates this way (I assume its not like the French system) this doesn't mean as individuals that we have to apply the same rule to our belief system. Were Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Milosevic guilty of crimes against humanity? No court, as far as I know, has ever convicted them. If this guy is later found innocent then pay him is back wages but otherwise feck em'.

Odin,

Yes, he is innocent until proven guilty, but considering that he's a Socialist politician with a Socialist government in power means that the prosecutor must be convinced that he or she has an open and shut case if they felt confident enough to have him arrested.

Second, Hunvald is not performing his duties as mayor, so he shouldn't be paid, especially since he's quite wealthy so it's not like his family is depending on his monthly salary.

especially since he's quite wealthy so it's not like his family is depending on his monthly salary.
Zoltan at November 10, 2009 5:55 PM
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In cases like this the rule of Law must rule, therefore Zoltan's comment is a bit strange.
The accused's financial status can not be a factor when determining this.
If so, why should he get a salary anyway, when he was doing his work, if he now is so rich?

Viking, you either misunderstood my comment or I didn't make myself clear enough. According to the law (and Justice Ministry), Hunvald should not be receiving his pay while he is under preliminary arrest. The comment about his financial status was added in case anyone feels sorry for him over not being paid. Hunvald is in no danger of going bankrupt without his salary.

@all

"Last Friday, the Socialists in Budapest’s District VII voted down a Fidesz-sponsored measure to revoke District Mayor György Hunvald's salary"

That makes no sense - how can you vote on something that's covered under the law and it is actually recognized as a loophole?

If there is a loophole, you suck it up until it's closed - isn't that how Democratic countries work?

I could understand if they introduced a bill that would (a) cover a suspension of all politicians' salaries' who are investigated for fraud or (b) that stated "if convicted" the salaries would have to be returned. (I assume bills are passed and then made into legislation if approved in Parliament)

Thanks to this website, I am now suspicious of all political parties and their hidden agendas.

At first glance, I thought FIDESZ was grand-standing knowing full well it was not something a party could vote on. If the Socialists "voted " on it, does it mean they could have overturned a law????

Sounds like this case is a great opportunity to actually improve the system and make politicians accountable .

Mr Zoltan for an arrest to be made the police must believe that there is a case to answer. The Hungarian equivalent of the U.K. lay Magistrate has to agree that there is sufficient evidence to warrant a trial. This evidence is as yet ‘un tested’ and may well be found ‘wanting’ O.K. enough. I hope to God that justice will not only be done but will also be seen to be done.

Ms Olga you write * “At first glance, I thought FIDESZ was grand-standing knowing full well it was not something a party could vote on. If the Socialists "voted" on it, does it mean they could have overturned a law????”
The answer here is a resounding “NO” only the High Court of Parliament can change the law and they cannot change it retrospectively.

Olga,

Fidesz wants the spirit of the law to be observed, while the District VII Socialists prefer that it be the letter of the law. As far as I can tell, the law was written so that public officials unable to fulfill their duties due to illness or injury would still receive their pay (such as was the case with Laszlo Toller) but not because they are under preliminary arrest. The heads of the national Socialist Party agree with Fidesz on this issue. And yes, you should be suspicious of all of the political parties.

Odin,

I believe you're missing my point that the prosecutor would not go forward and arrest Hunvald unless they felt this case was a "slam dunk" because if they're wrong, especially with a Socialist gov't in power, there would be hell to pay for accusing a Socialist politician of graft, unlike if it was some politically unconnected individual. The consequences if they are wrong would be much greater than if the person under arrest was simply a store owner in Dohany utca, and I'm sure this weighed on their decision to move forward.

Zoltan there may well seem to be a ‘prima-facie’ (slam dunk) case bases on the evidence. This evidence has yet to be tested. This is done by the processes of cross examination, disputation of the interpretation of the evidence, close examination of the methods used to obtain the evidence and the completeness of the evidence its self etc. This testing has to be done in public
Once the prosecution evidence has been set out or disclosed it cannot be changed nor can it be added to without first giving the defence adequate time to consider it.
To do this the strategy of the defence must be kept secret. In some trials in the U.K. the Crown Prosecution Service was caught ‘Bugging’ the interviews between the accused and their ‘briefs’. There was Hell to pay’ over that, but it seems to still be going on.
If the accused is a ‘big noise’ then you bet that the prosecution has gone to great pains to make sure that everything correct
But until the evidence is properly tested there can be no verdict and until there is a verdict the accused is not guilty. As an aside most courts in the world only two verdicts are available ‘Guilty’ and ‘Not Guilty’, but in Scotland those canny folk have a third one which is ‘Not Proven’ This means that there may be a case to answer but you have Not Proved It!

@ Zoltan and Odin

Glad to hear Parliament needs to pass legislation as opposed to political parties voting ad hoc.

Shakespeare was a great supporter of the "spirit of the law" - entertaining for plays and long philosophical discussions and debates.

Hunvald's personal financial situation is irrelevant

When the law is clear,( laws are amended, loopholes closed) it must be followed because it governs everyone: it considers us collectively, never individually.

BTW - Hungary once again is faced with similar laws governing the Democratic USA - Last time I heard, Mr. Blagojavich is happily collecting his salary as Governor. If he didn't, how could he pay those lawyer fees?

Absolutely stunning...10 comments in and there is civilized, disagreeing but not disagreeable, dialog going on. I feel as if I've stepped through the looking glass.