Did he also promise two chickens in every pot? I looked up the definition of demagogue in the dictionary and there was a picture of Viktor.

I really hope the hungarian people see who he and his party really is.....fake and one big scam!! And traitors to their country, don't forget the love the EU....and don't forget what the EU is!!

The discussions in this forum are "heartbraking"
to say the least.
Hungary has become a country where "Talk is cheap,
because supply exceeds demand."

Dear Hungarians,those who believe that Hungary
has to become hungarian again,that trianon is hungarys future,that Gyspies and jews are the main reasons for hungarys failures,that history
can be rewritten to fit under the wings of the
turul bird, let me tell you the following:
1)Hungary is one of the most dishonest countries
around.
2)Hungary never looked into the mirror of history
and came to grips with it.
3)Hungary is deeply corrupt,intellectual,political
ehtical and individual.
4)Hungary is archaic in thinking and your self-identity is impulsive ,egocentric or plain stupid.
5)Hungary made itself being looked at as a world
curiosity,a joke.

Go on entertain me

@ Judas

Your opening statement should not be "Dear Hungarians" but "Dear JOBBIK Supporters" - by all accounts they are still the small minority

The 10 bullet points are really unfair - they sound like statements made by a recent graduate of the "Oszkar Molnar's School of Critical Thinking"

Hard to get past your first point "Hungary is one of the most dishonest countries around." - Sounds like an Oszkar statement - vague, insulting, subjective and impossible to prove.

You are so right, Brother Judas! We need to make Hungarians ashamed to be Hungarians and we need to remind them how bad they are and keep reminding them while we steal everything they have and everything their children and grandchildren hoped to have.

We Jews are good at taking over other people’s countries, stealing their lands and murdering them. When they have nothing left, we cut out and sell their organs. Ask any Palestinian about our friendly enterprising spirit. Give us a few years and we can have a choice of Hungarian or Palestinian organs in our wonderful brotherly city, Tel-Aviv.

All those who complain are Jew haters, anti-Semites and Nazis.

@judas:

You might be right about "Hungary", but there are many nice and honest hardworking, really lovable Hungarians - and my wife and her family and also my neighbours belong to that group...

Judas,

"1)Hungary is one of the most dishonest countries
around."

"3)Hungary is deeply corrupt, intellectual, political, ehtical and individual."

If by 'around' you mean the EU - which also contains the least corrupt country - Hungary is less corrupt than:

Slovakia, Italy, Greece, Lithuania, Poland, Romania and Bulgaria.

http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2008

If you are really troubled by corruption, I suggest you go live in Russia for a while, and get a sense of persepctive.

sophist,

you only confirm what i stated:

Whenever a hungarian has a chance he will find
an "excuse"to put the blame on others or an "explanation" where things are worse.

I actually do not care if Russia is more corrupt
than Hungary.(its a little bit bigger too)

The point is Hungary is all that what i said
and the question is "what to do".

Dear Olga,

i admit i could have chosen to adress a more specific group like "Jobbik" but then it is not
only them.
My experiences in Hungary is less with jobbik
supportes but more with ordinary hungarians
and i did not know their political affiliation,
nor did it matter for this purpose.
I talk about people i met during 2 years in hungary: workers,secretaries,students,lawyers,business
people ....That brought me to my statement.

There are for sure honest ,and "wolfi" said it,
hardworking and loveable hungarians,but they
became "on-lookers","mute-actors","play-dough"
at the hands of politicians of any colour.
That has to change.From bottom up.

and dear olga,

by the way the "jobbik" supporters may reach
the 10 % or so area. What worries me are the 30%
(Der spiegel)who are the silent(or not so silent) support bas for jobbik or similar ideas.

Oskar molnar and similar are a point in case.

Speaking of topics such as corruption and public safety. In March last year, I visited Kiev. I was struck at how every store you go into after dark has a giant security guard with a gun. ...that is except when I went with my friend to the opera house ticket office where we were informed by the ticket lady that the show was sold out, but "that guy in the corner might be able to help you" ...does anyone know the secret agent guy from sesame street who tries to sell Ernie a bottle of air? ...anyway...so yeah, oh and then there was the trio of REALLY freaky looking tree-trunk necked tattoo covered guys, one of whom had a scar running from the corner of his mouth up to his cheek-bone who came to a screeching halt in their Bentley and 'parked' in the middle of the street without raising an eyebrow from anyone... So yeah...just some impressions. ...so, public safety, open corruption, presence of 'likely lads'...well, draw your own conclusions.
BTW, I still loved Kiev. It's worth a visit.

Wolfi,

"Whenever a hungarian has a chance he will find
an "excuse" to put the blame on others or an "explanation" where things are worse"

I'm British.

What you said is patently false, Hungary isn't the most corrupt country around. Yes, Hungary has problems with corruption as do most places - but to address the problem you need to make a realistic appraisal of what the problem is. Where is Hungary corrupt? How does it occur? How big is the problem, why does it happen and how can it be corrected. Mindless negative overgeneralisations don't help.

Try students for example answer my questions in that context. What would you do, from the "bottom up"?

Hello sophist,

I think you addressed the wrong gentleman by error.

Poor wolfi, he's already been called a nazi around here (just because he's German), and now he can be a "judas" as well!

Wolfi, I feel bad for you being called a nazi; it was ill-mannered and uncalled for. Nothing you ever posted could lead to such an accusation. As a Hungarian, I feel bad that you come to a Hungarian website in good faith and have to endure that.

@ Judas

JOBBIK is scary - but you offered point by point criticism - no viable solutions. Sorry for picking on you, it's just that you posted in such details

When I first heard of the party I was fascinated by Krisztina Morvai - could not and can not figure her out - I believe she is a brilliant woman, using her brains to hurt the country and make Hungary look pathetic in the eyes of the Western world that embraces Democracy (The Molnars are easy to figure out - idiots who cater to the lowest common denominator)

I read this sentence in TIMES online and substituted names. Ain't it the truth?

"If her facts were off target, her tone hit the spot. Palin is expertly channeling the disenfranchised and disgruntled of the Republican base. "

"If her facts were off target, her tone hit the spot. Morvai is expertly channeling the disenfranchised and disgruntled of the Extreme Right Wing base. "

From an outsider looking in, the only party that has a clear agenda is JOBBIK - distasteful and hateful as it is, it's clear.

I respect a lot of people's opinions on this website - I now understand what's wrong with all the parties. Surely to God, Hungary has "an Obama" lurking in the background - I don't mean anything to do with his policies or politics. I just mean someone who can convince the apathetic, disillusioned NORMAL Hungarians with his/her words
"Don't tell me we can't change. Yes, we can. Yes, we can change. Yes, we can." and then spell it out HOW - just like Obama did.

Pull their fingernails out just like in the good old days with Comrades Rakosi, Apro and Bauer

Farkas L., Wolfi, Judas

"I think you addressed the wrong gentleman by error."

It takes one to know one, FL, you're right. In my
defence I can only say, Homo homini lupas est.

Wolfi - sorry

Judas - come back and fight like a man, or even a wolf.

Olga,
the picking is ok with me:))

The basic issues which i found in hungary being
at the base of all the misguided developments
are;(and this does not only refer to "Jobbik")

1)No honest,clear picture of hungary's historic role and involvement. A kind of historic-cultural
"misch-masch" is being dished out in books,univerities etc. Intellectual leadership is
nearly missing (they leave the field to politicians)
2)The educational system still "produces" "functional students" not being
able to ask question and not being able to "reinvent the wheel".Good excecuters when being told what to do.Afraid to take responsibilities and only looking for their own advantage.
3)The journalistic capabilities of print and elctronic media are so poor,its amazing.No investigative journalismn at all.
4)The legislative side (laws,high-court,courts
etc.)are "paper-tigers".

Now you will tell me : Ok ,but what are the solutions?

1)First i think a kind of natinal soul-searching
has to start. This will be the job of the intellectuals.Who are we really?What we want to be?Where we want to go? How do we achieve this?
2)The educational system has to be reformed in that way that students become "people of the question" not "people of the answer".
They have to be encouraged to take risks,to
try and rethink the common and to take responsibility.

and there is no other people i know who when
caught lying ,instead of saying sorry,continue
to lie and when pushed in the corner,start
crying(even adults,lawyers etc),break down,
find excuses,blame others,blame god and the world

when in fact the could have simply said :

Sorry,you are right ,i am wrong,will not happen again.

(no slovakian,romanian or russian or others
are like this. WHY?

Even imre kertez had the guts to address this
national trait.He will be cruxified for it....
by hungary

Judas,

You obviously had a very discouraging two years - I've been here 13 and find it hard to recognise the Hungarians you describe:

"1)No honest,clear picture of hungary's historic role and involvement. A kind of historic-cultural
"misch-masch" is being dished out in books, univerities etc."

Do you have any concrete examples? Or are you confusing popular History and conspiracy theories with academic History.

"The educational system still
"produces" "functional students" not being
able to ask question and not being able to "reinvent the wheel". Good excecuters when being told what to do. Afraid to take responsibilities and only looking for their own advantage."

I think is true of any "educational system": though British universities may pay lip service to independent thought and responsibility for one's own learning. Wander too far away the syllabus, or the lecturer's / department's philosophy and you will be penalised. I find Hungarian students cynicism about this refreshing, it is after all the pursuit of certification rather than the search for enlightenment - that doesn't need assignments and examinations.

"The educational system has to be reformed in that way that students become "people of the question" not "people of the answer".
They have to be encouraged to take risks,to
try and rethink the common and to take responsibility"

I agree with this, but it's a criticism of all educational systems not just Hungary's. In any case, how?

sophist,

yes correct ,2 completely disappointing years.

However i like and enjoy the landscape,the light
entertainment and yes i am a bit disappointed from
the quality of classical music,opera and ballet
and theatre.

There are exceptions though and hope.

But the culture hungarians are so proud off does
actually not exist.Its a bluff a "potemkin village". It may however come back with new
spirited artists. There are a few lights...

Hi, everybody!

we're in Germany right now, but will be back in Heviz soon...

The discussion was ok with me, it really is refreshing to hear (some) positive news - nothinh is lost yet for Hungary, I'm still optimistic, it just takes a lot of time...

I think even Fidesz and Mszp (or their successors) can and will develop int democratic parties, representing their side of the Hungarian people, and jobbik will return to the usual role - extremist a**holes that exist everywhere, but only a really small minority.

As soon as the economic situation will stabilize a bit most people will be "normal" again - as in other Europian countries we will have the right and the left - and a few extremists you just have to endure...

Judas,

"a bit disappointed from
the quality of classical music,opera and ballet
and theatre."

Maybe you've been particularly lucky with the quality and quantity of culture your home town offers, but are you comparing like with like?

I lived in London for a number of years, and I wouldn't expect London to compare with Budapest - it's much bigger, much richer and much more cosmopolitan. However, I have also lived in a small county town in England and a small county town in Hungary population c.70,000.

The Hungarian town has a recently renovated theatre that presents something like 20 plays a year, with a seperate series of open air performances in the summer. The English town doesn't.

The Hungarian town has a dedicated music school offering theory and instrument lessons for children right through their education. (They even managed to teach my eldest daughter to carry a tune.) The English town doesn't.

The Hungarian town has a surprising number of small musical venues, offering a range of music from Operetta to Táncház to Death Metal. It has a number of openair festivals music festivals throughout the summer, again from classical to folk to rock. Needless to say the English town doesn't.

Musical culture in Hungary may not offer the highest international standards, in any case international pay will always attract the top Hungarian talent away from Hungary. But Hungarian musical culture is broad and deep.

Dear Sophist,
do not get me wrong.I am disappointed with the discrepancy between pretension and reality.
(Hungary is certianly not the "cultural"navel of the world and i doubt it ever was)
But this is besides the point:
The real questions which should be discussed on a national level are:
What are we? What we want to be?How we go there?
What we want our nation to look like and how we want
to fit in the community of nations?What should our role be there?How we deal with minorities?
Assimilation,dissimilation or integration?
How we make our legal and educational system work
?How we get checks and balances to work?How we make our people less afraid, take reponsiblities,
make use of good ideas?..and 1000 other questions.
You will ask me how to achieve this? I do not pretend to have the answers but then this should be the outcome of discussions in schools,univerisities,intellectuals,parties etc.

I think it is time that people move and do not let
this field only to xenophobics or politicalparties.
Imre Kertezs made a start. He pointed the finger in the right direction...

An old joke:

First school day in an American School. The female teacher introduces a new student, Sakiro Suzuki (son of Sony's CEO). The class starts:

Teacher:” let’s see who masters the American Culture History. Who said: GIVE ME FREEDOM OR GIVE ME DEATH". It's quiet in the class. Suzuki raises his hand: "Patrick Henry 1775 in Philadelphia"

Teacher: "Very good Suzuki." And who said: "The State is the people. The people may not go down." Suzuki stands: “Abraham Lincoln 1863 in Washington."

The teacher looks at the students and says:” Shame on You all. Suzuki is Japanese and knows American History better than you".

A voice comes up from the background: "Kiss my ass, you damn Japanese!” Who said that?" the teacher screams. Suzuki raises his hand and without waiting he says: "General McArthur 1942 at Panama Canal and Lee Iacocca 1982 in the BO meeting of General Motors."

The class is super quiet. From behind: "I am gonna puke" The teacher screams: "Who was that?” Suzuki answers: "George Bush Senior to Japanese First Minister Tanaka during lunch in Tokyo 1991"

One of the students stands and screams angrily: "Suck this". The teacher upset: "Now stop. Who was that now?" Suzuki without blinking the eye: "Bill Clinton to Monica Lewinsky 1997 in Washington in the oval room of the White House"

ctd.

Another student stands and screams: "Suzuki, damnyou!"Suzuki says: "Valentino Rossi in Ryo at Grand Prix Motorcycle racing in South Africa 2002" The class falls in hysteria, the teacher becomes unconscious.

The door opens and the principal comes in: "@#$%&, I have never seen such a mess" Suzuki: ‘’MP of Hungary to Hungary’s ministry of finance, when he shows him the state's budget’’.

@ Sophist and Judas. Hungary has tradition and culture. It has proud and honest people (some villains too)that want a brighter future and a desire to keep their "village days" (falunap) and produce wine and food both natural and fresh as opposed to supermarket stodge.
Farkas Laszlo works tirelessly to raise awareness
of the talented Hungarians that have enriched other countries' traditions with their enterprising efforts.
The list of what's wrong here, and what needs to be done has been posted over, and over, again.
Unfortunately there are no takers in the "doing"
department.
A huge amount of research needs to be carried out across the board and a plan drawn up with recommendations that will point us in the right direction to ensure Hungary achieves success and does not become just a programmed satellite of the EU.
I do not know how we can stem the mass exodus of our talented people to other countries. If we can persuade them to stay - only then can we expect a brighter future.