Bernie and Bob would probably be very enjoyed if I were to march around in a SS Uniform (although my father was a soldier/officer in the German army he was not in the SS, not even a Nazi party member) just to argue for "freedom of clothing".

No, he would simply ask you to tell everyone which criminal law, given you see fit to compare the Hungarian Guard with your own murderous SS, the Hungarian Guard has ever broken; in order to justify your disgusting and ridiculous parallel.
Moron.

@Bobscountrybunker: according to the results of a Szonda Ipsos poll, 76% of Hungarians believe that Jobbik are aggravating relations between Roma and non-Roma. You are part of the problem, not the solution. http://www.mno.hu/portal/679143

That poll is Crap! You go to any regional part of
Hungary or even in Budapest and Hungarians know that
the Gypsies are a serious problem, again Vandorloo
you quote crap!

Oh so we are not now going to concentrate on Wolfi's nauseating comparison of patriotic Hungarians to mass-murdering Nazis?
We're going to change the subject so that I'M the problem you say? How charming.

Stop bragging hitler boy.

Your German Nazis, as monstrous as they were, could not even come close to Stalin’s Jewish Communists.

I find Bernie's comment to be highly offensive. As a professor in history, it is a well-known fact that communists killed far more and earlier than the Third Reich did. There was also an alliance between Stalin and Hitler up till 1940. The Soviet Union provided Hitler with raw materials till 1940. Cheka and NKVD units were very active in the 1920's and 1930's well before Hitler came to power. The ignorance of the left-wing and leftists like Bernie continues to amaze me. They either lie or are completely ignorant of the historical truths and evidence. I have dedicated my life and teaching at my university by not only exposing the crimes of the Third Reich but the hidious truth of the murderous beast called the Soviet Union.

Regards,

Professor Dave

Oh so we are not now going to concentrate on Wolfi's nauseating comparison of patriotic Hungarians to mass-murdering Nazis?
Bobscountrybunker at November 27, 2009 2:57 PM
---
As usual Bob cannot answer, just change the subject.
Wolfie's question was:
---
Bob would probably be very enjoyed if I were to march around in a SS Uniform ... just to argue for "freedom of clothing"
wolfi at November 27, 2009 12:35 PM
---
The question here is *not* the comparison between SS and MG, it is the question of "freedom of clothing" which Bob spent so many pixels and cpu-cycles on yesterday.
Let us take an example:
---
The point is that in a free society people should be quite simply free to wearn one if they wish. It's none of your or my or anyone else's business if they so choose.
That's what freedom means
Bobscountrybunker at November 26, 2009 9:51 PM
---
So instead of answering the question of yesterday's hot topic "freedom of clothing" he ducks that and goes in to the comparison between SS and MG.
So Bob, take any other 'uniform representing something that is forbidden (or should be according to you))' and compare the 'right to wear it' ("freedom of clothing").
-
The thing is that Jobbik has gone to the Hungarian Constitutional Court on this "freedom of clothing"-thing and from a legal point it has nothing to do with if the 'uniform' represent a 'good' or 'bad' organisation.
The legal question is that the 'uniform' represent something that is outlawed.
Bob The Mixer

"Oh so we are not now going to concentrate on Wolfi's nauseating comparison of patriotic Hungarians to mass-murdering Nazis?
Bobscountrybunker at November 27, 2009 2:57 PM
---
As usual Bob cannot answer, just change the subject.
Viking at November 27, 2009 6:30 PM
-----
Lies lies lies Viking: as always. Address the issue made in the first comment to this post.
Address it directly.
Address it straightly.
Do not evade it.
Do not avoid it.
Do not change it.
Do not bitch about some slight you feel you got yesterday.
Do not descend into being snide.
Do not be childish.
Don't talk to me about bans, or constitutional courts, or fashion, or other signs of Hungary's rapid return to Communism. Or do anything else that deliberately alters the subject away from what is being discusses i.e.:
A. Wolfi’s comment, and, B. My own answer to him: and ONLY that.
Today you do not get the chance to run away, or avoid, or evade, or mislead, or prevaricate, or change the goalposts, or ad hominem, or think that engaging in logical fallacies somehow proves you case.

ANSWER the following question simply, plainly, directly - everyone is watching you to see what your response will be.

SO: Do you concur with wolfi's suggesstion that the patriots of the Magyar Gárda equate to the proven murderous, genocidal, bunch of evil torturers: the SS? As made CLEAR in wolfi's first post.

If so inline to my own challenge to him (which STILL remains unanswered), tell us either:
(a) What criminal law has the Magyar Gárda ever broken to support this case? Think about this hard. (Here's a clue: the answer’s zero.)
(b) What evidence can you bring to bear whatsoever to justify this truly monstrous comparison/reductio ad hitlerum? (Here's another clue: there isn’t any.)

As I have told you REPEATEDLY it is the person throwing the shit that must prove that it sticks. (Here’s a further clue: Just because you are a Leftists does not mean words mean what you have decided they will just this minute.)
TRY.

@BobTheBloodyBastard:

I did not compare the SS and the MG but if you say so - you're probably right, they are similar "patriots", the big difference being that in the 21st century the MG will not have a chance like the Nazis had...

That is one thing the EU stands for, not to allow those things anymore. That's probably why the jobbik and other fascists hate the EU so much.

@Wolfi
Now you are scurrying away like a little girl.

"I did not compare the SS and the MG but if you say so - you're probably right, they are similar "patriots", the big difference being that in the 21st century the MG will not have a chance like the Nazis had..."

You cannot have it both ways, "I did not compare," in the start of the sentence, and then "they are similar" in is middle!?

You either HAVE the balls to make this comparison or you do not.

The eyes of millions pushed into a slow tortuous death from Zyklon B are looking at you for an answer too. To see if you are actually drawing a parallel between the German bastards who did that, and some fat middle aged rural Hungarians who would just rather like it if their Grandmother's didn't have their bathtubs stolen and would be happy if their kids weren't threatened and beaten shitless in school anymore.

Stop being a bitchy lilly-livered coward who runs away from a straight question, like a Hungarian policeman does from an actual criminal, á la Viking. Are you a Wolfi or a Chihuahua?

ARE you making this comparison or are you NOT???
Make up your mind! But if you ARE, surprise us by doing something the likes of Viking never does: PROVE IT.
It's about bloody time you Leftits answered a question for a change. And this one should suit you all down to the ground: it couldn't be more simple.

@BobBadass:

Yes the MG and the SS (and Mussolini's people and many other fascists) have a lot of similarities: Not only their uniforms but also their hatred for minorities (clearly shown on this site by you and your friends bernie, law, beju etc), their so called "Patriotism" and so on - but there is one big difference:

Yu won't get the power - we'll see to that!

Oh today we will answer?
Good.
---
A. Wolfi’s comment, and,
B. My own answer to him: and ONLY that
wolfi at November 27, 2009 12:35 PM
Bobscountrybunker at November 27, 2009 9:25 PM
---
A) 'Bob would probably be very enjoyed if I were to march around in a SS Uniform ... just to argue for "freedom of clothing"'
==
The Viking answer is:
Yes, I hope that Bob enjoy himself, *not* because there is an equation between MG and SS, just because the right for "freedom of clothing".
In a serious debate I would probably agree with Bob in his enjoyment, then being a typical West European Liberal, I believe that we should debate ideology and prove our point with arguments, not intimidation.
In principle I agree with "freedom of clothing".
Same thing there, I did not like the ban on the Rudolf Hess marches a couple of months ago. It is better to let the loonies out and confront them in debate.
====
B. My own answer to him
---
which criminal law, given you see fit to compare the Hungarian Guard with your own murderous SS
Bobscountrybunker at November 27, 2009 1:17 PM
---
Viking answers:
As I know no Hungarian *criminal* law have been broken by either MG or SS.
The current laws (from 1949) did not exist at the time of SS.
MG has been legally dissolved due to it did not followed its own, by the State, approved statues.
It was not a 'Cultural organisation', it was the attempt to build up a Uniformed Arm of a Party.
Not allowed in normal society.
Personally I would compare MG and SA, not SS

If anybody wants to know what Germany thinks about the MG (and understands German) here is a report in our national radio:
http://www.dradio.de/dlf/sendungen/gesichtereuropas/762483/
"Sie beschwören ein "völkisches Ungarntum", träumen von der Wiederherstellung eines "Groß-Ungarn", geben sich offen antisemitisch und marschieren in uniformierten Gruppen gegen "kriminelle Zigeuner" auf. "
Exactly what the Nazis did before 1933...

@Viking: You are right: MG is more like the SA (Whose first leader Röhm was gay by the way...).

Here another excerpt from the radio-discussion with some young Hungarians:

"Die gezielte Einschüchterung der Roma, die Gewaltandrohung, das uniformiertes Auftreten in der Öffentlichkeit. Das alles erinnert ihn an Deutschland in den frühen 30er Jahren, sagt Pe"ti. Als dort Hitlers SA-Männer aufmarschierten.

SO: Do you concur with wolfi's suggesstion that the patriots of the Magyar Gárda equate to the proven murderous, genocidal, bunch of evil torturers: the SS? As made CLEAR in wolfi's first post.
Bobscountrybunker at November 27, 2009 9:25 PM
---
1) I do not share your evaluation of members/sympathisers of the Magyar Gárda are "patriots".
In my evaluation they are as patriotic as members to the German SA.
=
2) You are the one who makes the link between MG and SS. Wolfie is asking a question of "freedom of clothing", why should a SS-uniform be worse than a MG-uniform *in this very limited sense of "freedom of clothing"'?
Should we not be allowed to wear a SS-uniform suddenly?
Your argument all yesterday why it was bad to arrest a people for wearing MG 'uniforms' was that it should be allowed to wear anything, so what is the problem?
=
As I written before, if anyone would like to compare MG with other, similar organisations, SA (German Brown-shirts) and Mussolini's Black-shirts are better comparison objects, then they were the typical 'Uniformed Wing' of a political party.
The SA was very important to Adolf Hitler's rise to power, but was largely irrelevant after he took control of Germany in 1933; it was effectively superseded by the SS after the Night of the Long Knives.
To secure the power after 1933 Hitler killed off the SA and many of its gay members, because SA was a gay bastion, the true Gay Nazi movement.

I count 250 words in your comment. Ranging from assertions over the fact that you do not agree with my supposed “evalution”(no one asked) to the Night of the Long Knives being the a move by Hitler to remove homosexuals from the SA (no one cares).

NONE of these words goes to answering my very simple question.

You just engage in nonsensical rambling and then ask three questions of your own.
But that’s not what we are doing here.
What all of u are doing is waiting very patiently - STILL - for an answer to my simple question.
As I said the time has come for the hypocritical, pontificating, nonsensical Leftists to answer a question for a change. I have given you my question: it is the current subject of discussions.
Do you ever plan on answering it? Directly, plainly, simply: Without additional guff or garbage? Stop talking about gay stormtroopers and Mussolini for just a second. Let me put it even more simply, simple enough for you to understand.

SS = MG

Yes or no?
Stop stop stop stop stop. No: you don’t have to write hundreds of words. Or talk about bananas, basket-weaving, or crop rotation in the 14th century. You don’t even need to talk about sociology, history, politics, law, the constitutional court, Szálasi, Rákosi, Szentgyörgyi, Baron Almásy, Duke Szécsényi or Puskás Öcsi!

You just have to three little letters: YES
Or two little letter: NO
And then press “Submit.”

Do think you could accomplish that? We are about to see...

SSMG
Happy?
It is what I wrote before, I did not know we must answer in mathematical formulas this Friday evening?
-
Now you can maybe lower yourself to answer Wolfie's question in the very 1st post above, meaning his question was before yours.
And his question you can still find just under the article.
-
In addition to that you are encourage to develop your opinion on yesterday's liberty number 1:
To wear what you want.
We are still waiting to hear why it would be wrong to wear a SS-uniform?

Sorry,
The html-filter removed the signs between SS and MG.
so the textual version is then:
'SS' is not equal to 'MG'.
All other seems OK

I fear that unbelievable rapture has erupted Chez Bunker. With fireworks and a mulitude of balloons falling from the ceiling. A party of thousands has erupted in the ballroom, and the Veuve Cliquot is flowwing like water. Apparently a Leftists has deigned to answer a question for once and this has been the signal for joy being unbounded.

Now the rest of the world (95%) waiting for the corresponding action from 'the other side'...
and still waiting...

@BloodyBob: Here a quote from the english wikipedia:
Others, such as Hungary's former prime minister Gyurcsány and members of the international press have compared the group to Hitler's brownshirts in Nazi Germany and the Hungarian fascists of the 1940s.[5]

Of course for you wikipedia and other "mainstream media" are irrrelevant - your sources are the right wing loonies like the so called journalists from the Kopp-Verlag with theiir constipation theories (sorry I meant conspiration theories).

And once again : MG is not equal to SA or SS - because they lack the power

But they are very similar!

Now you got it you "Völkischer Beobachter" ?

PS : That was the name of one Nazi newspaper, today you could compare it to the horrible Dreck of Hungarianambience with its manipulations...

The Arrow Cross Party (Hungarian: Nyilaskeresztes Párt – Hungarista Mozgalom, literally "Arrow Cross Party-Hungarist Movement") was a national socialist pro-Nazi party led by Ferenc Szálasi, which ruled Hungary as the Hungarian State from October 15, 1944 to January 1945. During its short rule, ten to fifteen thousand Jews were murdered outright,[2] and 80,000 Jews, including many women, children and elderly were deported from Hungary to their deaths in the Auschwitz concentration camp.[3]

That is another quote from wikipedia - what do Bob and Bernie and the other Nazis here think about it ?

Dream of having them back ? Maybe even would like to parade with them ?

@Wolfi And Viking
You two have lost the plot, Magyar Garda are a
civilian volunteer organization, organized because
of the lack of government concern for it’s people,
don’t forget the Corrupt Government!
The Magyar Garda was developed by concerned
Hungarian citizens for their own safety and future
in Hungary for a better Hungary. Szebb Jövőt!

@LawlessLaw:
"Magyar Garda are a
civilian volunteer organization" - that is why they need black boots and a black uniform ?

I hear you, fan of the prison camps, where you want to send the likes of Viking and me...

wolfie, stop bragging about your ss daddy

If now Magyar Garda was such a nice organisation why, when the killing spree of innocent random Roma was at it heights, Jobbik/Magyar Garda issued a statement that it would go in to Roma communities to stop Roma from organising vigilante checking of mysterious passers by, especially those driving around in black vans?
Yes, you read right, Jobbik/Magyar Garda did not go out to protect the innocent possible victims (only Roma was targeted by the 'Debrecen Nazis' serial killers), they went out to protect non-Roma peoples right to move around freely without being challenge by a vigilante road-block.
That just shows Jobbik/Magyar Garda's priorities:
- No problem if some one kills some Hungarians, as long as they are not "White Folks".
==
Together with these marches in villages with a high Roma-population, just shows that Jobbik/Magyar Garda is neither 'patriotic' or 'civilian volunteer' - it is an organisation hell bent on creating problems in the society to reach its political aims.
In that tactic and its love for a uniform dress-code, which is mainly black (and what do every one associate with then?), that makes Magyar Garda just one in the row after Mussolini's Black-shirt Movement.
Ask Vona Gabor which book he read when he decided to form Magyar Garda?
I will give you a hint, it was not an Hungarian book. The name of the Capital of that country reminds more of the political correct name of the biggest minority in Hungary.

viking prefers his rakosi avo going through the villages, brutalizing the people and taking everything they have

@Bernie, idiot with the many names, don't you get tired of your silly games - or is this what rest&recreation means in the asylum for psychopaths where you reside ?

@Erik:

I'm sorry, but can't we get rid of those Jobbik loonies somehow ?

I don't mind being called names but it gets a bit tiring and there are other people here (I hope!) wo would like to have constructive discussions on this site - with all the useful information you give us.

viking prefers his rakosi avo going through the villages, brutalizing the people and taking everything they have
wolfie the joker at November 28, 2009 9:55 AM
---
So HP (who ever else write everything in lower caps) do you have any proof that the 'Rakosi AVO' is still alive and working?
Or are all Hungarian Police since 1947 still 'Rakosi AVO'?
Do you regard the Jobbik/MG the 'true Police Force' in Hungary that has the right to perform Police duties, including the privilege of using violence?

it is rather annoying to follow this reocuuring
discussion comparing SS and MG.

The issue is what MG/jobbik stands for and what is
their ideological base.
They favour
Xenophobic and archaic ideas.isolation and dissimaltion. They outcast,smear,lie and using the same methods nazi's did . To create
fear in an already depressive nation is the best way to gain votes. MG is a tool in this game.
Like always in hungarian history they are rather
medicore in copying their german heros.

However they will become a danger when left
unchallenged.Hungary will have to deal with them shortly.Orbans "lackmus"test.
Hungary, i am afraid ,is gliding rather quickly,
into annother sad chapter of their history.
"when will you ever learn.....?

@judas: Just for reference 'lackmus' is 'litmus' in English.

n.b. I don't at all agree with your doom mongering and obscene negativity towards Hungary or its people. There is little more one can say in response to your morbid predictions.

Who are these “people” to talk about the Hungarian Guard? They have murdered well over 100 million people between wolfie’s German SS and viking’s Jewish Cheka to GPU, later to NKVD, and later to KGB.

Do they talk about what they have done? Hell no! These fine representatives of best of Hitler and Stalin do not have a single word about their own sordid pasts and are best of the friends condemning and libeling the Hungarian Guard.

How many people did the Hungarian Guar murder? None
What is their crime? They want to be Hungarians in their own country

In the crazed eyes of these demagogues, the Hungarian Guard is the same as their own SS, Cheka, GPU, NKVD and KGB. It does not matter to them that their own beloved organizations murdered millions in Stalin Jewish communists’ Gulags and Hitler’s concentration camps. No way would their realize that while the Hungarians want nothing more than to live as Hungarians in their own country, their own mass murderers have terrorized the entire planet.

The only comparison is fair is between Hitler’s SS and Gestapo with Stalin’s Jewish Cheka, GPU, NKVD and KGB. Germans and Jews deserved and deserve each other. They should all go to Germany and live happily ever after, leaving the Hungarians alone.

vanderlo i fully respect your views but i am afraid mine are as valid. Thanks for the english
litmus ( i always can rely on your german knowledge)
for the bernies etc.
Of course you can convert the cheka into jewish cheka,stalinismn into jewish stalinismn etc.
evrything you can basically turn into a jewish
issue if you like....but it is really not convincing.
Nazismn,communismn etc were state ordered and controlled ideologies. Jews are not the state.
The only jewish state i know of is Israel since
1948.
So all this comparismn is pure bla bla

At least our hitler boy, wolfie does not deny his Nazi heritage

Jews have a long way to go before they also face their own bloody Communist history but Mr. Plocker is such an honest Jew:

Sever Plocker: STALIN'S JEWS - Opinion from Israel, Ynetnews
We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish
Published: 12.21.06, 23:35 / Israel Opinion
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0%2C7340%2CL-3342999%2C00.html

@BerniBigBuggerAss:

"Nazi heritage" might be alright for you - why don't you stop repeating yourself...

Got nothing better to do ?

Why so nasty hitler boy?

Why wants Bernie's Jobbik publicly honour the Elite Division of Kun Bela's Communist Army?
Was Kun Bela not a 'jewish communist' suddenly?
Kun Bernie Bela, now we know his middle name.

Why so nasty stalin girl?

Well now. What are the Magyar Garda's crimes apart from dressing up in uniforms?
The Hungarian people have no representation at the moment. The corrupt commie brigade the MSZP have decimated Hungary and demoralized its people.
If Jobbik ever get representation in parliament let us judge them then.
Some of the screeching hyenas on this forum are no better than the same traitorous scum that Rakosi led during his brutal regime.
Modern-day Hungary is awash with unwashed ciganyok and they are, undoubtedly, a major problem. Irrespective of which side of the political spectrum you park your popó/arse.

The Hungarian people have no representation at the moment. The corrupt commie brigade the MSZP have decimated Hungary and demoralized its people.
AranyJános at December 2, 2009 7:33 PM
---
And that is why Jobbik want to honour the Elite Division of Kun Bela's Communist Army!
-
Finally we got the answer.

You are using the old and tired Communist method of trying to smear your opponents with your own filth.
There was a time when it may have worked but it is so transparent that no one with the intelligence of just one point above the amoeba falls for it.
Try some new lie

Tim,
Why not just answer the question of why Jobbik want to honour the Elite Division of Kun Bela's Communist Army, instead of in the spirit of Bob just discuss the form of the discussion and never the content?

A lie, an unsubstantiated Communist smear does not require an answer

A lie, an unsubstantiated Communist smear does not require an answer
Tim at December 3, 2009 9:23 AM
---
So the article in
http://www.politics.hu/20091125/magyar-garda-plans-to-hold-commemorative-event-in-romania
is totally false then?
"Hungarian Guard is planning to hold an event in Transylvania to mark the 91st anniversary of the formation of The Székely Regiment (Székely Hadosztály), Transylvanian daily Krónika reports"