The Times of London reported in its online edition on Saturday that Hungary’s radical nationalist Jobbik party is setting up a branch in London. But the spokesman for the new group denied there was any institutional connection to the Hungarian party when asked by MTI’s London correspondent.
Spokesman for the British Jobbik Society, Tamas Feher told MTI that the group might share the same sympathies as Jobbik, but there was no institutional connection to the Hungarian party, and it does not want to participate in a political campaign. Feher added that, to his knowledge, there was no legal possibility for parties to establish branches in other countries.
The British Jobbik Society, which aims to ensure that Hungarians living in Great Britain “understand and support the national values and the programme of Jobbik,” according to its website, was scheduled to have its first meeting on Sunday.
They collect donations for the banned Hungarian Guard and had
Jobbik MEPs invited as speakers. But sure, no connection
whatsoever.
The British have a fine tradition of supporting
facsist parties, so they’ll fit right in.
How much MORE information can you get wrong?
It’s called the Jobbik Friends of Hungary (UK), as made clear. It is a society of supporters not a branch of the party. It informs it does not campaign.
**Press Release: Jobbik challenges international media, to conduct actual reporting**
http://kuruc.info/r/40/51731/
„This society, not a branch of the Hungarian political party Jobbik, the Movement for a Better Hungary, is now one of many international associations that sympathise both with the objectives of Jobbik, and the concerted efforts being made in Hungary to oppress supporters of the Radical Nationalist movement.”
I wonder why the title of the press release was what it is. But this very simple statement in MTI and Politics.hu becomes “Jobbik denies links to UK group of same name.” If this was a Press Release then it didn’t only go to Kuruc did it? What MORE PROOF do you need that MTI is just a factory of lies???
WHAT COMPLETE BULLSHIT!!
—
“They collect donations for the banned Hungarian Guard.”???
No they didn’t.
**Jobbik Friends of Hungary (UK), extends gratitude to Metropolitan Police**
http://www.jobbik.com/europe-news/3140.html
„The meeting concluded with a collection, with all the money gathered being donated to the landlord for his favourite charity. £230 will now be sent to Great Ormond Street hospital.”
All the antifa groups put all the pubs number on their websites, so they could call and threaten. Why don’t you call the land lord up and ask him?
00 44 871 258 8628
Why don’t any of you do any ACTUAL REPORTING?
The reason why these groups are springing up everywhere now is because Hungarian people are just growing very sick and tired of all this bullshit which is being said as „facts”.
By MTI and people like you.
Szebb jövőt!
@Adjon az Isten: In response to your question of why this site network does not sponsor active reporting on a story like this, the answer is simple: It’s too insignifant to merit anything other than just running a wire story and letting readers argue about the facts and implications.
Does anyone else think it’s faintly ludicrous for a party that wants to leave the EU rid Hungary of all foreign bodies to be setting up a supporters’ club in a foreign country. Hungarians living in England, enjoying high British wages and low British taxes, undercutting British workers’ pay demands, raising money to support a party that would scream at the idea of anyone doing the same in Hungary. Or perhaps it’s ironic and they’re just being charitable. Merry Christmas xx
@ TDS
Ludicrous? Not at all.
It’s totally in line with hypocrisy. It claims to be a “Christian” party
Last time I checked, Christian values embrace diversity, inclusion, and tolerance
JOBBIK is all about rhetoric – so far the only concrete plan I know about was to change to penal code to give harsher sentences for Roma crime.
There was something about having Roma’s adapt “Hungarian values” – however no mention was made how that was going to be achieved.
I would just once like to read concrete plans to achieve ANYTHING the party plans to do – if I missed the plan, please direct me to a website that explains how Vona & Co plan to achieve goals like:
1. Overturning Trianon
2. Getting Hungary out of the EU
3. Giving Hungary back to the “Tiszta Magyar”
4. Having the Roma assimilate and adapt Hungarian values
5. Stopping the Jewish plans to take over Hungary while teaching Israeli kids to learn Hungarian (I think that wins the prize for insanity)
They have no plans – too busy spreading hate,fear and intolerance while preaching Christian values.
@Erik
Thank you for confirming what Hungarians have always known and suspected.
That when it comes to reporting including actual facts, stories about Hungarians are considered „insignificant”, and as a result being truthful is considered an unnecessary luxury.
You can just make stuff up if you like. Like MTI does and Politics.hu loyally reports.
–
Now Erik will come back and start lying and say what he *really* meant was that stories about Jobbik are insignificant. Don’t worry we know what you really meant the first time. Or will you now try and explain all the time Politics.hu gives to 1% parties like MDF, SZDSZ, LMP etc.?
–
This is exactly why JFHs have to exist in GB, U.S. and elsewhere TDS, because when it comes to Magyarok, facts are considered optional.
At least unlike most international media people Erik can admit it, even if only by a Freudian slip.
And I do not understand what you think membership of the EU or anything else has to do with it. Being Eurosceptic is being Eurosceptic. Nothing else. Your logic would mean that countries who don’t want to be part of the EU, Switzerland for example, should not have any foreign embassies for example? Moron.
–
And olga, nobody reads your Communist anti-Jobbik bullshit.
Your argument is how opposing Trianon and taking Hungary out of the EU is „un-Christian”?? And so Jobbik saying it is a Christian party is „hypocrisy”?!?!
On the contrary I think wining the „insanity prize” is a fight between you and TDS.
@ Adjon
Please direct me to the website that answers my questions.
Do you think that’s an unreasonable request?
@Adjon az Isten: What I said wasn’t a slip, Freudian or otherwise. I just think this is not interesting enough to devote any time other than posting what MTI has to say. And if you really want to get down to brass tacks, I think Jobbik as a “story” in general is vastly overblown – especially by leftists in the media who think their gains at the polls is some tragedy on par with World War II. Overall, it’s all just a lot of talk that will come to absolutely nothing. But of course you could also say that about Hungarian politics in general, which basically boils down to different parties doing exactly the same thing – they are pretty much all socialists – with the only difference being who benefits from the stealing. How about them beans?
@olgs
Please tell us the logic behind your request, and explain how saying Trianon was a tragedy, or that Hungary should leave the EU is, to use your word — un-Christian.
Is that an unreasonable request?
Ladies first.
@Erik
I find myself agreeing with a lot of what you say. Though of course I disagree with you about what the election results will be and on the politics, but as far as the media is concerned I am nodding.
Stories about us Jobbik people are overblown there is ridiculous hysteria that is not justified.
But please explain to me how this overblownness is to be solved by repeating fictions instead of reporting the facts?
It is a waste of time to argue about what Jobbik wants and does not want with those who have no real interest in Hungary other than to exploit the country and abuse its people. These people only parrot their own lies and lies of their own ilk because they do not speak or read Hungarian and have no idea about Jobbik’s program.
Jobbik’s program is the right program for Hungary and Hungarians and for all those who genuinely want to be Hungarians and work for a better Hungary. That is what “Szebb jövőt” is all about. It is not about hate or harming anyone. Hate and murder is the way Communists. They have showed it during the past 65 years and it is time for a change, a real change.
Well said Mark and Adjon as Isten, to all the true
partiots Szebb Jovot!
@Adjon: Well, again, it’s just not something I want to spend time on either way, so I’ll leave it up to you to make the case about this particular story being BS. And you are doing a good job, especially if you continue to avoid lot of pointless name-calling and so on.
@Mark: It’s always worth arguing with people, especially if you think your cause is just and not being given a fair shake. Just keep in mind that if you are in the minority – which Jobbik very much is – you need to try to change the minds of people who don’t agree with you.
@ Adjon
I believe that any political party should spell out how to achieve its agenda. Period.
I am posting a link for our PM’s campaign commitments. This example is not about the Canadian Conservative Party’s agenda – it’s about a political party making it clear WHAT they plan to do and HOW they are going to go about it.
http://www.conservative.ca/?section_id=5317§ion_copy_id=106960&language_id=0
I cannot imagine how JOBBIK would carry out the plans that they support “in theory” I assume that JOBBIK supporters would demand a step by step plan on HOW the leaders would realize their vision for Hungary. Since campaign promises are public knowledge, I just wanted to read the information.
Obviously you support JOBBIK – do you not want to know how they plan to achieve their goals?
Trianon was a horrible unfair tragedy – so how does JOBBIK plan to reverse it?
How does leaving the EU work? Is there a legal mechanism to do that? What are the plans?
Plus I was hoping to find out the answers to the other questions before you were so polite as to write “ladies first”.
Neither over turning Trianon nor leaving the EU is un-Christian. Hating Jews and Romas and making unsubstantiated claims against minorities, spreading lies are un-Christian.
I am not religious but I have a pretty good idea of what Christ preached. Given what you know about his teachings, what political party would best represent his views today?
Over to you…
Just looked again at http://www.jobbik.com/ -
it is full of hate and nastiness, so if this watered-down craziness that they present to the English speaking community is already such a mess, then I wonder, what are their real feelings and intentions.
If you show this website to any foreigner, he’ll understand immediately that the jobos are a crazy bunch of loonies…
Just a few examples:
They constantly write about the “EU.S.S.R.”
The Lisbon Treaty may well come into effect on the first of December, which will make that day the most disgraceful in the history of European integration.
Slovakian police terror
Ukraine has considered it timely to also commence the beginning of the final elimination of its own Hungarian minority
If you believe all this, like some people here (Mark, Law and so on) …
@ Wolfi
I looked at the website as well.
Did you see any information there about HOW the goals are going to be achieved?
I am breathlessly awaiting the step by step plans that Adjon az Isten is going to post
If you come across the “master plan and how to achieve it ” on a website, please let me know. Maybe I just missed it.
At this point I am convinced that no straight answer will be forthcoming
Law: I wonder if those commenting about Jobbik’s English version site read English any better than they read Hungarian
@ Mark
If there is a Hungarian website that explains how
JOBBIK plans to carry out its agenda, please post it.
I really struggle with Hungarian but I am so interested that I am willing to spend the time it takes to understand the concrete plans.
Is it possible there are no plans? Just rhetoric?
Please prove me wrong.
Tell me the solutions the party has in mind for the questions I posted.
@wolfi
Again your ignorance betrays you.
Please quote the “hate and nastiness” that is on jobbik.com. If the best you can come up with is: “EU.S.S.R.” and the “Lisbon Treaty being a disgrace” then you are fighting a losing battle.
Because these two things are pretty much true enough.
Let me quote Daniel Hannan, now his being a Conservative and a Eurosceptic will obviously mark him out as the devil in your eyes but the fact is, he knows what he’s talking about when it comes to the Lisbon Treaty. Most of his speeches are on YouTube and he is quite clearly fearsomely intelligent. He says:
At”>http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100018459/at-midnight-last-night-the-united-kingdom-ceased-to-be-a-sovereign-state/“>At midnight last night, the United Kingdom ceased to be a sovereign state
“In other words – in the minds of Euro-lawyers, at any rate, if not of British constitutionalists – the EU gets to settle the terms on which its members are allowed to leave. Formal sovereignty has been shifted from the national capitals to Brussels. It is appalling, demeaning, disgraceful that such a thing should have been done without popular consent, and in the absence of the referendum that all three parties had promised.”
Try and understand what the bit in bold above actually means. And it applies to all the EU27. The European question is when you Liberals just take leave of your senses and take up residence on Cloud Cuckoo Land. This is what has happened: face up to it. Just saying, “no it hasn’t.” Like Viking does. Well it’s like a Monty Python sketch.
So. As far as this piece of “hate and nastiness” is concerned. Jobbik are, surprise surprise, pretty much on the money.
The second example of Jobbik “hate and nastiness” according to you is the suggestion:
“Slovakian police terror”
This olga will no doubt tell us is more un-Christian Jobbik hypocritical xenophobia. (By the way olga, I think Jobbik’s manifesto is due out January 16th when I’m sure all your questions will be answered… but I advise you not to hold your breath for that long!!)
Oh ok, please take a look at and explain…
Slovakia Police brutality video leaked online
It includes a video of Slovakian police using attack dogs to terrify Roma children into hitting each other.
Jobbik again: right on the money.
But of course according to the international media the threat to the Roma are… the Hungarian Guard! It’s just another example of Erik’s rule in action. Well it’s unfair to blame him. It’s the international media’s rule, when it comes to Hungary facts just get in the way of a good story.
And your last example that proves we are all a “crazy bunch of loonies” is the Ukraine question? Check this out for a crazy bunch of loonies:
IHMTS Hungarian (Magyar) minority issues
Go to 7 min 43 sec, and clue yourself up over the recent Ukrainian suggestion that Ukrainian history is a 1.000.000 years old. And started in… Kárpátalja. Ho ho ho.
Jobbik, correct, once again.
So where’s the hate and nastiness? This is what you guys do here. It’s hilarious. You make wild accusations, and then when you can be convinced (after 20,000 comment posts demanding you do so) to actually come up with a bit of “evidence” it always turns out to be Grade-A horseshit.
@ Bob
just noticed your last posting so maybe you can enlighten me
I believe you support the BNP – I read the website
http://bnp.org.uk/policies/
Obviously I would not support the objectives but its agenda and solutions are spelled out. It explains exactly what BNP stands for and how it plans to achieve its goals.
Do you think it’s too much to ask for JOBBIK to do the same?
BTW, if you know the answers to my questions, please let me know.
Thanks, Olga, for the link to the BNP and their Xenophobic site…
I did not look it up before because I thought they would hide their real agenda behind a lot of general bla-bla.
But they are completely open – their program must be an example for the jobos: Throw the foreigners out, stop imports and so on.
It reminds me very strongly of Hitler’s “Mein Kampf” – they openly declare themselves to be Nazis by what they propose.
It would be frightening, if we didn’t know that they’ll never come to power – just like the jobos here.
We’re really lucky to be living in the 21st century, not the 20th…
@ Wolfi
Regardless of how odious I find the BNP website, at least I understand it and appreciate that.It’s not even important to me that some of the policies are not viable – the point is they HAVE a policy and are willing to post it.
Bet you no one will come up with concrete answers to my questions.
I noted Bob’s remarks that JOBBIK will come up with a manifesto on January 16th – Kind of like starting to build a house and then come up with a plan in the future.
Interim manifesto : “Let’s talk absolute shit and then figure out the “how to” in a couple of years. Let us not waste time thinking right now. Let’s dress up like Mussolini’s black shirts, and make up ludicrous claims about the Jews and Roma to get the ball rolling….Anyone disagreeing with us shall be labeled a Communist ”
To be honest, I am not clear on the FIDESZ and MSZP solutions either – wish they had a website as clear as the BNP. However, FIDESZ and MSZP platforms do not target minority groups nor incite hatred. Nor do they emphasize “Christian values ” while hating thy neighbours.
olga:
http://www.jobbik.hu/sites/jobbik.hu/down/Jobbik-program2009EP.pdf
Hope this helps. You may like it so much that you start a Canadian Jobbik Society.
@ Mark
Quickly looked at the link
Just want you to know I appreciate your posting the link. I will read it as soon as I get time (much later today)
I will take the time to go through it since it’s in Hungarian because I honestly do want to know the answers. My point was that if the solutions are clearly spelled out, I’ll be satisfied. I don’t need to agree with them.
I only wish I could start a Canadian JOBBIK party, but if you read some postings on this website, you will know that I am committed to the Canadian Communist party that masquerades as the
Canadian Federal Liberal Party.
Of course it’s one giant Liberal conspiracy and my fellow dumb Canadians lived under Communism for 13 years straight until 2006 without even knowing about it. Good thing Oszkar Molnar sticks to Hungarian politics and did tell Canadians “THE TRUTH”
“It’s another Titanic of a group”
“”In all probability, this alliance will go the way of its predecessor and implode within months, and this time they can’t even form a faction in the European Parliament.”
From http://euobserver.com/9/28888
That’s what other people think about the jobos and their “European Alliance” in the European Parliament.
Olga, I do not think that Canada has a Communist government but I excuse your ignorance of equating western liberals with European Communists because you do not understand Communist doublespeak.
Formal sovereignty has been shifted from the national capitals to Brussels
bobscountrybunker at December 7, 2009 5:36 PM
=
Try and understand what the bit in bold above actually means. And it applies to all the EU27. The European question is when you Liberals just take leave of your senses and take up residence on Cloud Cuckoo Land. This is what has happened: face up to it. Just saying, “no it hasn’t.” Like Viking does. Well it’s like a Monty Python sketch
bobscountrybunker at December 7, 2009 5:36 PM
@ Mark
@ Mark
Re: “I excuse your ignorance of equating western liberals with European Communists because you do not understand Communist doublespeak” -
I had you confused with someone named Tim. – thus my remark was a joke in response to your joke about my starting a Canadian JOBBIK party.
Of course you had no idea what I was talking about. Under the circumstances, using the word “ignorant” is quite polite on your part. – My apologies.
(Reference: Dec.3, 5.49 p.m. on the “Anti-semitism, racism marring Hungarian Politics” topic. )
I am still struggling with reading the JOBBIK website you posted in Hungarian. I am hoping someone will answer my questions in English. Until then, I’ll just prod along
@Adjon
„The meeting concluded with a collection, with all the money
gathered being donated to the landlord for his favourite charity.
£230 will now be sent to Great Ormond Street hospital.”
They changed the plan due to the bad press.
According to kuruc.info/r/23/51164/, the original idea was
“Az egész esemény alatt gyűjtést rendezünk a Magyar Gárda
részére.” – “During the whole event we will collect donations for
the Hungarian Guard.”
@Olga: The document referenced, supposedly
detailing Jobbik policy, is that same offered by
Bobs… and Pávaszem at various points in time. It
contains nothing but a long diatribe against
making profits and generating wealth. It is
basically a Marxist manifesto and isn’t worth
reading. That’s why they all point you to it,
because it doesn’t answer any questions, but they
haven’t got anything else to offer. They have no
policies, only an agenda. It all boils down to:
Bad: Jews, Roma, Europe, West, capital,
capitalism, consumerism, freedom of choice,
foreigners, ethnicity, neighbours, women working,
finno-ugric origins and language theory, neo-
paganism
Good: Hungarians, pre-Trianon borders, Russia,
East, redistribution of wealth, back to nature,
peasants, land, Chávez, strong men, old values,
punishing, uniforms, Sumerian origins and language
theory
They have no policies. Only vitriol in various
dilutions.
Curiously tough, I can only read one person here trying to spread vitriol… If you couple it with fear and misrepresentation that’s supposed to be just fine I take it?
You and your old tricks Vándroló! They never get tiresome.
bobscountrybunker: viking’s babble has nothing to do with Jobbik’s program.
I am working on a post explaining why the Communists of MSZP and SZDSZ managed to sell themselves as Socialists and why it is a fraud or as the Hungarians aptly describe as Communist doublespeak. Think about some of the Rakosi and Kadar era slogans. They all said one thing while meaning something entirely different. I think you know what I mean but it will take some explaining to those who did not have the “privilege” of living under Communist rule.
bobscountrybunker: viking’s babble has nothing to do with Jobbik’s program.
Mark at December 8, 2009 10:02 AM
——-
I think you are getting confused, I am not interested in your program, I am interested in your actions-
I am a firm believer that actions speak louder than words, and Jobbik actions with its ‘Uniformed Wing’ and support for all those right-extreme violent groups, just shows that Jobbik is for violence as an acceptable method in a democracy.
@Vandorlo and Viking:
Thanks for your efforts – these “doublespeak”-jobos can’t be changed, but at least you (and me) can show the other people on this site what those Jobbik fascists really mean…
Though in some respects they are a dangerous bunch (like that crazy Budahazy), most of them seem to me just blabbermouths – so sometimes it is fun to read their diatribes – we always get a good laugh when I tell my wife about their grandiose ideas like getting back all the territories of “Great Hungary”…
I just wonder if their allies in that international fascist group relize what this means – maybe the Germans should also start demanding abolishing the effects of the Versailles treaty – but the all hell might break loose…
@Olga
Many uninformed people, some well intentioned, support the “Socialists” in the former Soviet occupied countries because they do not understand Communist doublespeak.
Most Hungarians know that MSZP is not Socialist but Communist, a new kind of Communist but still adheres to the terrorist Rakosi and Kadar Communist regimes.
Their ranks and SZDSZ’s ranks also hold many murderers and torturers of Rakosi and Kadar regimes, their children and grandchildren. Ildiko Lendvai, the leader of MSZP was a high-ranking Communist before she and her party reinvented themselves as Socialists.
Letting these horrible people get away with calling themselves Socialists is an injustice and insult to every real Socialist, the Socialists of the West and the Socialists of Hungary before Rakosi gang grabbed power with the help of the Soviet Army. The horrors of the Rakosi regime were unprecedented even by Communist standards.
After the war, the Soviet Army presence allowed Rakosi’s gang of Communists to rig the elections by voting as many times and in as many districts as they choose but they were still could only get 17%. They used their 17% to get the Interior department and eliminate every democratic party opposing them. They also “merged” with the Socialists meaning that they absorbed them and forced the members of Socialist party into the Communist party. A few Socialists refused to joint the Communists but those were quickly eliminated. That was the end of the Socialist movement in Hungary. The ensuing years under the Jewish Rakosi AVO saw the worst terror imaginable. After the withdrawal of Soviet troops, these Communist murderers reinvented themselves as “Socialists” but that is a fraud.
It is an even bigger fraud when the Communist MSZP EU delegates cozy up to the real Socialists.
@Mark: You are being too modest. Why not give a more complete lists of former communists, informers, secret service operatives that are now in power or are still trying their best to get back in power?
Here’s a starter for you:
Stumpf István – MSZMP tag, Hazafias Népfront alelnök,
Járai Zsigmond – MSZMP tag, kormánytag, III/2 együttműködő,
Matolcsy György – MSZMP tag, III/II együttműködő,
Csurka István – III/III együttműködő,
Martonyi János – MSZMP tag, kormánytag, III/2 együttműködő,
Chikán Attila – MSZMP tag,
Pintér Sándor – MSZMP titkár,
Boross Péter – MSZMP tag,
Ligetvári Ferenc – MSZMP tag,
Boros Imre MSZMP-titkár, III/II együttműködő D-008
Pozsgay Imre MSZMP KB tag,
Szűrös Mátyás MSZMP KB tag,
Csintalan Sándor MSZMP és MSZP tag, jelenleg a Fidesz és a HÍR TV ideológiai támasza,
Schmitt Pál – MOB tag, jelenleg MOB elnök, a Los Angelesben rendezett olimpiai részvétel megfúrója és főkommunikátora, jelenleg a Fidesz alelnöke,
Kerényi Imre – MSZMP alapszervezeti titkár,
Togyán József – alias Szatmári, III/III-mas együttműködő, az Orbán kormány minisztere,
Balogh Gyula – MSZMP tag,
Szita Károly – III/III együttműködő,
Mikola István – Hazafias Népfront,
Fónagy János – MSZMP tag,
Vonza András – MSZMP tag,
Szabadi Béla – MSZMP tag, munkásőr,
Varga Mihály – KISZ titkár,
Deutsch Tamás – KISZ titkár,
Orbán Viktor – KISZ titkár,
Kövér László – KISZ-titkár, a Forradalmi Munkás-Paraszt Kormány és Magyar Szocialista Munkáspárt Központi Bizottsága alá tartozó Társadalompolitikai Intézet
Thank you for your post supporting my position that Hungarians should bypass all the current political parties in favor of Jobbik.
The most foul Communist stench emanates from MSZP and SZDSZ with their unrepentant Communist murderers, their children and grandchildren but Fidesz has its share of lesser Communists. Jobbik is the natural choice for those Hungarians who want to break from the horrid past of Rakosi and Kadar terrorists.
@ Vandorlo and Mark
Vandorlo:Thank you so much for the Executive Summary. Since Mark took the trouble to post the link in Hungarian, I really did make the effort to understand it and I was not finding the solutions to my simple questions. If someone got paid by each word they wrote, s/he must be living
in the lap of luxury.
I did understand the “Roma solution” – JOBBIK is against integrating children. I stopped reading. As long as kids are going to be segregated and it’s “us and “them”, you can forget Roma kids adapting to “Hungarian values.”
I thought JOBBIK advocated special laws to deal with Roma crime – I assume I read that wrong since that makes no sense.
@ Vandorlo and Mark:
I will never understand how Hungarians could have elected and will again elect anyone that had ties to any Communist party. Given Hungary’s suffering through the Communist era, it’s something that simply does not register in my brain.
Re: “It is an even bigger fraud when the Communist MSZP EU delegates cozy up to the real Socialists. ” – Who are the “real Socialists”?
Is there an actual party in existence in Hungary that’s somewhat close to the Liberal Party of Canada or the Democratic Party in the USA? -
@Mark: Obviously I made no such suggestion, nor does it in any way support anything you have said to date.
The people listed use political positions and power for their own aggrandizement and personal gain. The same is so far true and worse of all Jobbik.
Supporting a party that has no policies, but is still thinking one up and will only have something that might be worth reading some 2 years after they started out isn’t promising.
This is besides the fact that they are more extreme communists than of the existing political parties.
Look forward to the day when you have some form clear manifesto to read.
Question: Are the MEPs redistributing their newly gained wealth through their wages and “travel expenses” to other Hungarians less fortunate than themselves? How much and who to? Bort iszik és vizet prédikál, ugye?
@Olga:
Yes, it is difficult to understand, that people vote for communist/socialist parties with the same representatives as they had 20 years ago…
The same is happening in East Germany right now – in some parts of the country they get 30 % of the votes, even though every day someone in the new “Linke” is found out to have been working for the secret police…
Can you imagine this ? I don’t understand it, but in East Germany as in Hungary a large part of the population says “We had it better in socialist times” !!!
Ohh Vandorloo you have your facts incorrect, and it’s obvious you’re a Communist from day one.
@StinkoDankoBacsi:
So that’s your best argument: Vandorlo is a communist…
Well like I said before you show your stupidity more and nore, being called names by your group of jobo loonies is almost like getting a honorary degree.
No point arguing with a traitor, just like your stinking self.
Several Western European countries had Socialist government as opposed to the Communist dictatorships that MSZP and SZDSZ represents.
The Western European Socialists won their mandates by free elections and carried out their programs within the legal framework of accepted democratic principles. When they lost the election, they departed just as peacefully as they came to power. They advocate higher taxes to pay for their social programs. They try to carry out their promises because they believe that everyone has a right to a better life. With all their good intentions, they tend to stifle free enterprise to the point that revenues drop off and unable to keep their promises. This is when they usually get the boot. In America, the Democrats are the closest thing to Western European Socialists but with some significant differences.
The post-Communist Communists are terrorists who want power for the sake of their own interests and for their own people. As you can see, the MSZP/SZDSZ gang raised taxes while taking away the safety net from the poorest and most vulnerable.
It is so crazy to call the MSZP/SZDSZ mafia liberal and Socialist while calling Fidesz right and Jobbik far right. Not they but the Communist MSZP/SZDSZ are extremists. In simple terms, the MSZP/SZDSZ mafia is not Socialist, just thieves and criminals. They belong on the garbage heap of history.
@Mark: You are obviously a simple person. It might be easier for you to make sense of your small, frightening world if you thought in terms of a slightly more complex cognitive model – though nothing too complex for you.
Separate social and economic policy:
Economic Policy:
Fidesz left
Jobbik extreme left
Social Policy:
Fidesz right
Jobbik far right
2Vandorlo
Why are you trying to box in Jobbik? You haven’t seen there policies only listened to lies from Commi propaganda, you’re very closed minded!
It’s obvious what your motives are.
@ Mark
Once thing we agree on – it really is very difficult to figure out who is who in Hungarian politics and what each party actually stands for.
I usually pay attention to Vandorlo, Viking and
Wolfi since they are in line with my thinking but so far, I am still confused about the party leaders’ agenda and their actual concrete solutions to Hungary’s (MSZP and FIDESZ)
I can say something positive about JOBBIK – clear
agenda ,no concrete solutions, but at least I know what the party stands.
The members are wingnuts that give Hungary a bad name. The Communists you mentioned can take a back seat to “Double Speak”
@Danko Bacsi: I’ve read pretty much everything they have in terms of policy, watched the videos of their speeches in EU, here (Budapest) and rallies, often pop by their website to see if there is any substance added to the mosogatólé/öblögetővíz that passes for content over there.
Like a crappy food is a village késdobáló I’m still hoping one day to be served something decent.
If there is any substance why not lead us all to it, instead of all these empty promises that you are not all just talking through your arses and making stuff up.
An I.O.U. is not the basis for a political party, even in Hungary.
@Mark
Unsurprisingly I disagree with Vándorló’s perspective on most things. And I would add to that his verdict on you. I have found your posts to be very eloquent and they possess a quality my writing never has: pith. You also don’t descend into mudslinging, as Erik pointed out, which is again to your credit.
Getting back to the man Vándorló as you can see here he’s very good on source materials, he does a fine line in identifying logical fallacies, but when it comes to disecting minutiae he is usually hopelessly out of his depth.
This is very much the Hungarian disease, either naive idealism, or corrupt selfishness. I suppose the former is better than the latter; and anyway I think, much though he may disparage, he’s secretly got a hard-on for Fidesz.
To go back to his crude equation of Jobbik being Left-wing economically and Right-wing socially. It has some validity but not that much.
Incidentally I always find it funny that when people say that a party has this perspective: Left-wing economics and Right-wing social policy; that makes them stinking neo-Nazi third positionists.
If however you combine Left-wing social policy with Right-wing economics, do you know what you call that? New Labour! You might also equally say, the EU operates in this way also. So it is unsurprising if parties are taking this opposing turn Europe-wide. It gives the lie to the “return of the 1930s bollocks.” It is just Newton’s third law in action: politically.
But to return to the point in hand, what Jobbik is trying to do is a little more discerning I think. From:
How Jobbik transformed Hungarian politics.
“Despite the views of commentators who have an agenda to promote by making you believe otherwise: central to Jobbik’s success is the fact that it is not imprisoned by an ideology, of either side. And what Jobbik, the Better choice, represents is the ability to cherry-pick from policies of either the Right or the Left, on the basis of one sole criterion: the national interest. This has been the first ingredient of the Jobbik recipe for success.”
I would agree in as much as this mercurial nature has made Jobbik a lot harder to pin down and therefore attack, that’s why all these attempts at smearing and classification ping off their armour so easily. However to the question of if it has made them popular? Well here olga has a point: the party is at the moment quite policy poor. If you ask me it’s a product of the Euro results being unexpected. Nobody thought they could well turn out to be the opposition in 2010 least of all themselves.
From what I understand they are very very hard at work at this manifesto due out January 16th. Ther are taking this job very seriously. And it’s going to stun a lot of people. This is known full well in the other camps which is why such a concerted effort is being made to weaken Jobbik now.
Both Fidesz and MSZP strategically want as much as possible to get the annoying third party dealt with so they can make 2010 a straight fight between them (because they think the other is the one they have the best chance of beating). Expect arrests over the holidays I think, lots of them.
My reason for supporting Jobbik are very straightforward. As I made clear in this post.
Erik’s President Sólyom post.
And this video demonstrates.
IHMTS Regime change? …not really.
Hungary went wrong right at the start in 1989. We didn’t boot the Commies out back then like the Czechs did. And the majority of our problems all trace back here. The Czechs had a velvet revolution, we had a velvet facelift. This is where we went wrong.
And as long as the MSZP continues to exist as a functioning potential party of government Hungary will continue to be hamstrung: political, economically and psychologically.
The only thing that would stand a chance to destroy the MSZP once and for all is a vote for Jobbik. 2010 is the best chance we have had since 1956.
SZDSZ built its EP campaign entirely on anti-Jobbik lies and distortions. Jobbik’s counter campaign was brilliant and buried SZDSZ. Today, SZDSZ is below 1% and has no hope of garnering the required 5% for representation. SZDSZ is done stick a fork in it.
It appears that MSZP is doing the same thing and has degenerated into an irrational hate campaign against Jobbik and the Hungarian Guard. As far as I can see it, Hungarians do not believe these smears and Jobbik’s popularity is steadily increasing while MSZP is on a steady decline.
@ Bob;
Great post! You are so right, Hungary is being given a second chance…hopefully they will see that, grab it and run with it.
@ Olga;
Trying to understand Hungarian politics by using Canadian politics as an example is like trying to understand Roma people, by comparing them to our Native Americans. It just can not be done because there is no comparison.
The Czechs had a velvet revolution, we had a velvet facelift. This is where we went wrong
bobscountrybunker at December 8, 2009 5:43 PM
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Have you ever done business in Czech Republic?
I have, they are even more corrupt than Hungarians.
It is hard to see them as an example of something to look up to.
But please check for yourself like in:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/18/world/europe/18czech.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
“It is perhaps a sign of both the country’s political pluralism and its collective amnesia that 20 years after the revolution, the Czech Communist Party, an unreconstructed Marxist party, still wins nearly 15 percent of the vote here”
The Czech Socialist Party takes in around the double of that.
Why does Bob see this as his ‘Glory Land’?
But please do give some examples that prove your point, we are not used to that actually.
Viking, what the fuck do you know about the “rendszerváltás”?
Seriously, now you will have us believe that the Czech Republic is riddled top-to-toe with commies, that Czech Communist party holding 15% is equivalent to what, 8 years of government over here.
Yes, this is what you implied.
WTF???????
So I ask again, what the fuck are you talking about? Not just now, but EVER? What authority do you speak with? When did you come to Hungary, 3 years ago, 5, 10? What knowledge do you have of Communism? Not from what your wife tells you — from LIVING it? Do you even speak the language? How many of your relatives were in labour camps? How many Viking? Or tortured. How many? Or removed from their work, or arrested for what they said? Seriously.
You are such a naive, small-minded, missinformed idiot. So tell me: what the hell do you know about Hungary? Talk about Sweden all you like. But all you ever demonstrate about Hungary is total and utter ignorance. You just embarass yourself.
Why do you think people so rarely reply to your posts anymore?
Viking, what the fuck do you know about the “rendszerváltás”?
Seriously, now you will have us believe that the Czech Republic is riddled top-to-toe with commies, that Czech Communist party holding 15% is equivalent to what, 8 years of government over here
bobscountrybunker at December 8, 2009 7:50 PM
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What ever the Czech Republic is ‘riddled top-to-toe with’ it is as corrupt as Hungary. The few times I have done business there it always ended bad with local partners using contacts inside the Czech Secret Service to hurt business opponents. I went away as soon I understood what was going on.
That is my personal experience of Czech Republic after 1990, maybe not representative, but it made me curious about your comparison that what happened in Czech Republic was sooo different from what happened in Hungary.
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And your main argument is that politicians in MSZP (please provide similar from SZDSZ) were active pre-1990 in the last 8 years of Government.
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OK, Why do you not take in the Fidesz Government 1998-2002, where Jobbik old partner (mentor?) was in Government, the old Communist-spy Csurka Istvan?
Or Köver, Pinter, both that are slated for new jobs again in the next Government?
Or are they all excused?
You are such a naive, small-minded, missinformed idiot
bobscountrybunker at December 8, 2009 7:50 PM
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And that is why I am still asking why Jobbik want to celebrate the Elite Division of the Hungarian Communist Army?
Just check this article:
http://www.politics.hu/20091125/magyar-garda-plans-to-hold-commemorative-event-in-romania
@Viking
Your not worth the time to even answer, go crawl back under the rock you came from you troll! Your just out to smear Hungarians with trashy lies.