If MSZP does not release the tapes before April 11 (expected election date), Fidesz (being the new Government most likely) will release them on April 12?
Any bets?

We had similar problems in Germany, but with the help of some US agency a lot of information has been published - but there are lots more ...

The socalled "rosenholz files" (look it up at wiki, even better use the German wiki if you can read it, it is fascinating stuff) were sold to the CIA by some KGB officers who had got the info from East German Stasi people ...

Some of those officers were found dead later ...

It's really better than any Dan Brown nystery!

A lot of politicians are afraid of this information, not only in West Germany also some Finnish were implied, the info has not been completely decoded yet, it seems.

Probably ths situation is the same in Hungary, we'd be surprised to read who worked for the secret police ...

Bayer Zsolt: Vérdíj
http://www.magyarhirlap.hu/velemeny/verdij.html
(…)
És nyugodtan mondjuk ki, írjuk le ezredszer is: ha a náci bűnökre nincsen bocsánat, akkor a kommunista bűnökre sincs. Az nem lehetséges, hogy egyrészt mindig elmondják minekünk, hogy felejtsük már el végre a múltat, és ne hánytorgassuk, mi történt, majd ugyanazok elmondják azt is, hogy van a múltnak egy, egyetlenegy olyan része, amely nem felejthető, s amelyre folyton emlékezni kell. S akik ezt teszik, ezt mondják, azok egyben azt is mondják, azt sugallják, hogy emberiség elleni bűnt csak a zsidók ellen lehetséges elkövetni.
(…)

to translate...
Zsolt Bayer: Blood-money
http://www.magyarhirlap.hu/velemeny/verdij.html
(...)
And let us calmly say, in fact we should write it down a thousand times: that if no possible forgiveness can exist for Nazi crimes, then neither can there be one for Communist crimes either. It is simply impossible, that on the one hand we are always told, to just once and for all forget about the past, and that we should stop dwelling, on what happened, while the same people also say, that the past has one period, and only one period, which can never be forgotten about, and which in contrast must constantly be remembered. And those who do this, who say this, also say by this, and imply by it, that crimes against humanity can only really be committed against Jews.
(...)

@bobscountrybunker
Your translation is, as far as I can judge, is perfect. Thank you.
Hungarians are a smart people…

@ Mark

That's a ridiculous statement - no one in his right mind would say that Nazi victims' lives were more important than Communist victims' lives.

One was genocide , one was not.

The lives of 9/11 victims are just as important but it was not genocide.

My husband just finished reading SHAKE HANDS WITH THE DEVILby Roméo Dallaire
Between April 6 and July 16, 1994 approx 800,000 people including children were brutally killed in Rwanda. They were hacked to death with machetes - because they were Tutsi, and moderate Hutus who supported them.

That was genocide like the Holocaust and I only gave that example because the book is on our table. There is no shortage of examples through history.

You constantly write about "Jewish Communists" That just proves that as long as you supported Stalin you were welcome. I assume you could have been black, white, purple, green, Christian, Muslim or had two heads.

So the argument that Communists victims' lives were of less value makes no sense. You should be furious at those who deny the Holocaust - by denying Jewish lives being lost, they deny 5 million non-Jews. At least no one EVER denies Communists' victims.

@ Olga;

I suppose that was the point. No other event in history seems to be as "important" as the Holocaust. No other event in the world has to be "taught" at length in schools. No other event in history, is there a push to have it legislated "illegal" to question it at all.

See the pattern? See the posible issue? Of course you don't.

@ justasking

Give me an example of another Holocaust that's being denied.

@ Olga;

Show me another Holocaust/muderous event in history, that is as well or better promoted/forced to be remembered/not allowed to be questioned? Your turn.

@justasking
The Armenian Genocide is denied by the Turkish government and anyone who says that they did it in Turkey could face criminal persecution. In America, the major Jewish organizations are the best Turkish allies for Armenian Genocide denial. Jewish organizations played a major factor convincing President Obama to break his campaign pledge to recognize the Armenian Genocide. One could fill a library with what Olga does not know.

As far as I can tell, very few people say that the Jewish Genocide did not happened but there are a lot of questions and doubts about the official version. The “denial laws” create more doubts and controversy about it than anything else. You put people in prison for what they believe and say and you have people asking why so afraid.

@ Mark

I knew I could find something you write that I'd agree with.

"One could fill a library with what Olga does not know." - absolutely true. I gather the same could not be true about you. That's truly admirable.

I also agree that the denial keeps the flames alive. BTW, the Pope was in Israel in May and said the Holocaust should never be forgotten. Please advise him to stop fanning the flames

the families of the 5 million Non-Jews who perished do not want the Holocaust forgotten either. Let them know to cease and desist and move on.

About "The Armenian Genocide is denied by the Turkish government and anyone who says that they did it in Turkey could face criminal persecution."
And your point is?

Who else beside the Turkish Gov't denies the Armenian Genocide? Gee, criminals who commit the crimes deny them. Shocking.

Rather Ironic that Germany takes responsibility, isn't it? - But then again, the Germans have nothing to feel guilty about since the Nazis responsible are long dead. Today's Germans are not responsible. End of that discussion I hope.

Since justasking won't answer and you are so much
smarter than me - what other genocide does the World deny beside the Jewish Holocaust?

It would have to be an example where the history books agree on the crime and the Perpetrators' claims are not taken into consideration

@Mark: You're a bit patchy on Turkish politics, so let's just balance what you have just written with some more facts:
1. Armenia and Turkey have agreed, after decades of silence, to re-establish diplomatic relations. Early days on that one.
2. Obama did renege on his agreement to ask Turkey to formally recognize the genocide.
3. The only way sworn enemies Syria and Israel ever talk to each other is through the brokerage of Ankara.
4. Last year most Israelis, who love to holiday in Turkey, boycotted the country following Turkey's harsh criticisms of Israeli action in Gaza.
5. The laws that are being used to suppress Armenians and Kurds is the same that is used to suppress Turks. It is normally under the 'being anti-Turkish' or 'expressing anti-Turkish sentiment.
6. The very laws that are used to suppress free speech and minorities in Turkey are the kinds of laws Jobbik has continuously asked to be introduced in Hungary.
p.s. My other two pet countries are Turkey and Japan (with Estonia, Mari-El and a few other places following), so feel free to talk through your pants about Turkey, but let's "talk turkey" about Jobbik policies that are idiotic first.
p.p.s There is a lovely little monument to the Armenian Holocaust in Budapest along the riverbank. If you walk down régiposta utca off váci you should hit it.

@Vandorlo
I see what Ricsi was talking about. You are unable to refute what I said so you dilute it with a lot of additional stuff that seems relevant but still nothing that would refute my statements. I also think that you know that what I am saying is true and that is the reason for the roundabout.
Not one word from our resident Turk or Kurd or whatever?

@Mark: Let me turn all that into one simple question then:
1. Is to wrong to prosecute people and suppress the freedom of expression in any country under a law that claims such free expression amounts to "public denigration" of that country, state, its people or its institutions?
These are the laws being used in Turkey, as Nobel Prize winning Turkish author Orhan Pamuk found out when he spoke out about the treatment of the Armenian and 12 million Kurds.
So, is it right or wrong to have such laws?

@Vandorlo
You are dancing around the issue just as Ricsi said you would. Olga’s question was, “Give me an example of another Holocaust that's being denied.” I not only provided an answer but pointed to Jewish duplicity in the Armenian Genocide denial. Deal with that and consider its implications because it is very similar to what the Communist MSZP tried to pull over the Hungarians. Ildiko Lendvai, the Jewish leader of MSZP wanted a law to punish those who deny Nazi crimes but she dropped it when Fidesz wanted to include Communist crimes also. That is the hypocrisy and double standard that you cannot escape.
If you want to dilute and confuse the issue at hand by raising other issues, you will have to do it on your own.

@ Vandor;

Help me understand the correlation between you considering Turkey and Japan your "pet countries" and Mark saying that the Armenian Genocide/Holocaust being denied by the Turkish Government and people being procecuted for questioning it's occurence?

@Mark and justasking:
It's clear from my statements that I have not, and have not attempted, to deny that the republic of Turkey committed and continually tries to suppression discussion about the Armenian Genocide/Holocaust (1915).
I went further than yourselves by giving a concrete example of a Turkish citizen of international renown who has himself been prosecuted under the laws suppressing free speech on this point.
Now to shift this discussion to the country germane on this forum, my question was to ask, given the fact we all agree that this suppression of free speech is appalling, would it be acceptable to attempt to introduce such legislation here (Mark in your case here means there as you have not, do not and, it appears, never will live in Hungary).
The laws that are used to suppress free speech on this issue and on the suppression of other minorities in Turkey are the same types of laws Jobbik wants to introduce in Hungary.
I will ask both of you again:
1. Is it wrong to prosecute people and suppress the freedom of expression in any country under a law that claims such free expression amounts to "public denigration" of that country, state, its people or its institutions?
Do you understand now justasking or shall I get the wooden colored blocks out for you to play with instead?

Friends why waste your time with this Pratt
vandorlooo ?
He continually dribbles just to dilute the real
issues of Hungarians, by smearing Hungarians who are
patriotic, he defends Soros and his Jewish mafia of
Oligarchs who rob Hungary dry, and if someone speaks
out then they’re either racist, fascist and
smeared.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKIJGHk-5QA

Dr Varga Tibor, he has interesting presentation on Hungarian History , Hungarian Patriots would find this worthwhile..

Law wrote "the real issues of Hungarians" -
so he is the expert on this ?

Other Hungarians on this site or people who live here (and maybe have Hungarian partners wo can tell them something) don't know, just those people like Law and Mark and Ricsi and justasking who have maybe visited Hungary a few times or heard something about it from their parents (who left the country a long time ago) ...

This is not only ridiculous , it's downright crazy - as these people seem to be ...

http://szentkoronaradio.com/letoltes/eloadasok/2008_08_07_eloadas-dr-varga-tibor-matyas-isten-ajandeka-i

Wolfi@You know I am usually too busy these days to answer idiots,but for your info most of those you mentioned DO live,work,pay taxes,run businesses etc.. here in Hungary. Now be a good boy and F--- off please.
Szebb jövőt

@ Vandor;

No, your statement were not clear. Instead of saying " Mark, I agree with you" you attacked him when he gave an example to Olga, at her request I might add, about another Holocaust being denied.

You then threw in your 2 bits by accusing Mark of being " a bit patchy on Turkish politics" when politics was never in question.

You asked a complex question, requesting a "right or wrong" answer, knowing full well that that question could not be answered so simply. I think at this point you were trying to show your fans how smart you are, that sure backfired. Lets leave out the fact that the question was directed at Mark first and later at me.

As for the coloured wooden blocks, I take you up on that offer. So when exactly can I expect them?

@ Vandorlo or anyone

Mark won't answer and I don't know of any other holocaust that's denied except by those responsible for the crime.

Are there other examples?

Question was: "...... what other genocide does the World deny beside the Jewish Holocaust?

It would have to be an example where the history books agree on the crime and the Perpetrators' claims are not taken into consideration"

@Justasking: I made the 6 points in my initial response as understanding them would highlight a number of obvious issues. It is not the case that the Armenian Genocide has been denied by Obama, but he did renege on his promise. The truth is that it was from the internal politics of PM Erdogan ruling party. They are an Islamic party, though when they initially came to power they promised to respect the Turkish constitution and the secular nature of the republic that Ataturk established. Gradually the true nature of the Justice and Development Party is coming to the fore, partly based on disappointment with the country's reception within Europe.
Anyone who knows anything about Israel and Syria would understand that a country that can broker a position with both could not be in either one's pocket. Moreso, Ankara had sent very strong messages to Israel over its actions in Gaza, far stronger than the whimpering European nations, Russia or US. And Mark wants us to believe that Ankara is Israel's puppet?
This and more is why I say Mark knows nothing about Turkey, its culture, history or politics.
Let's put it this way, it makes Hungary's feuding look like an English tea-party.
As it happens, tonight I opened a bottle of Armenian pomegranate wine (a bit odd to be honest, but I love pomegranates) I was given for Christmas and will now settle down to re-watch Vodka-Lemon (2003).
I lied about the building block, but will this do: http://www.kongregate.com/games/Remivision/wooden-path

@Olga: The term 'hemoclysm' is often used to described various forms of mass slaughter.
Japan has slowly apologized (with half a heart sometimes) for its atrocities in China and elsewhere, UK (the Queen) to India. There's a comparison here of various atrocities: http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/atrox.htm
No-one has ever apologized to Ireland for Cromwell's actions, but for some people he was a hero. Takes all sorts.

"Give me an example of another Holocaust being denied" Olga-Jan 6 @ 5:13 pm

"The Armenian Genocide/Holocaust is being denied by the Turkish Government" Mark-Jan 6 @ 5:31 pm

(Voices in Olgas' head) Shit now what do I do, He called my bluff... I know!!!

" What other genocide does the World deny beside the Jewish Holocaust" Olga -Jan 6 @ 10:36 pm

I thought you said that nobody denies the Jewish Holocaust only a few people on this site, (although I have yet to hear Mark actually deny the Holocaust) now suddenly the World denies it.

If it were me asking the question I would have phrased it like: What other Holocaust/Genocide in the history of man, has been so fiercely guarded, obsessively promoted, than the Jewish Holocaust?

@ Vandor;

I have never questioned, nor will I question, your knowledge of Turkey and/or Japan. I believe you; but, that's not the issue.

Mark said that the Turkish Government denies that the Armenian Genocide/Holocaust ever happened. He then went on to say that Jewish organizations aided in convincing Mr Obama to drop his campaign promise of recognizing the Armenian Genocide/Holocaust.

The first I heard of Obama denying the Armenian Genocide/Holocaust, is now from you !

I appreciate the rest of your post for my knowledge of Turkey, consist of my parents hating them and me loving their version of baklava. It's much less sweeter than the Greeks.

No, you promised me blocks, coloured ones at that, and thats what I want. So just keep your link and cough up the blocks.

@ Vandorlo

I don't recall a big world debate if Japan was or was not guilty nor did anyone negate Cromwell's actions in Ireland.

If I remember my English History, Cromwell lost his head without a proper trial. I'd rather not think about his fate if the Irish Catholics got hold of him first. If they did, beheading would have been the easy way out

The Germans admit culpability for the Jewish Holocaust and the Pope mentioned it in may 2009./ Millions of pictures and history books validate not only the loss of Jewish lives but the murder of 5 million Non-Jews.

After this, there is still a debate. I don't recall other Holocaust debates - Of course the Turks denied their own culpability. I don't know how the Japanese handled their own atrocities before they "reluctantly" apologized but did the world deny it happened in the interim?

Maybe denial has some benefits because it does keeps the subject matter alive and the younger generation will read books, listen to all the arguments and evidence on both sides and find out the truth for themselves.

@Olga: While there is not the strong international movement to deny some of these atrocities, nationalist in some of these countries do try. One only has to look at how some Japanese still treat the Nanking Massacre. One should also look at Japan's education system and the content and methodology of approving versions of history taught in schools. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_history_textbook_controversies
Cromwell, unfortunately, died of natural causes and received a great ceremonious burial. He was only posthumously executed, his head going on a 300+ year journey before being buried in 1960 in one of the College of Cambridge (its exact location is not given to prevent attacks on it). There are statues of him in various places, one near the House of Commons. People do still negate Cromwell's action and he is vehemently hated in many parts of Ireland. To this day, one of my aunts (Brigid Ann) will not stop talking about the man. For her, like with many peoples who have suffered atrocities it is not the denial, it is the lack of remembrance. When January 30th comes around I'll be drinking a toast to his posthumous execution.
One can also look at the way the word holocaust is used and how some people wish it to refer only to the Jewish holocaust - excluding the massacres of the Roma, gay and handicapped.
Overall though, I think the denials by those who wish to keep the hate going, particularly here, always works against them. If they would only shut up.

Hi Ricsi,
It is best to let these lunatics believe their own fantasies about who is what and who lives where. What they imagine they know is what makes them the happy fools they are :-)

@Vandorlo
Thanks to Ricsi’s warning, I am wise to you. You start out with some lies about what Jobbik wants and proceed to ask me questions based on these lies. It does not work that way. When the initial assertions are false, asking and answering questions based on them would be silly. Sorry, but I am not going there.

If one word could describe Germany during the
immediate aftermath of World War I, it would be
"starvation." And yet, while some 900,000 German
men, women and children were starving to death,
the American and British public knew nothing about
the reason for this holocaust, deliberately caused
by the continuation of a wartime British naval
blockade.

Britain's post-war naval blockade of food to
Germany in 1919 matched the then current blockade
of news by the American and British press. Even
today, only a few non-Germans know the truth, and
American and British historians, for the most
part, have participated in the coverup of this
most appalling crime.

The guilt of the world press in covering up the
atrocity is compounded by the fact that the
American and British public were told of the
starvation itself, but were kept ignorant of the
criminal policies of the Allies which produced it.

http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english
/archives/articles/starvation1919.html

Never had so many people been put in prison. The
size of the Allied captures was unprecedented in
all history. The Soviets took prisoner some 3.5
million Europeans, the Americans about 6.1
million, the British about 2.4 million, the
Canadians about 300,000, the French around
200,000. Uncounted millions of Japanese entered
American captivity in 1945, plus about 640,000
entering Soviet captivity. [Above: A U.S. Army
soldier stands guard over thousands of German POWs
at Sinzig-Remagen, spring 1945.]

As soon as Germany surrendered on 8 May 1945, the
American Military Governor, General Eisenhower,
sent out an "urgent courier" throughout the huge
area that he commanded, making it a crime
punishable by death for German civilians to feed
prisoners. It was even a death-penalty crime to
gather food together in one place to take it to
prisoners ... The order was sent in German to the
provincial governments, ordering them to
distribute it immediately to local governments.
Copies of the orders were discovered recently in
several villages near the Rhine ... The message
[which Bacque reproduces] reads in part: "...
under no circumstances may food supplies be
assembled among the local inhabitants in order to
deliver them to the prisoners of war. Those who
violate this command and nevertheless try to
circumvent this blockade to allow something to
come to the prisoners place themselves in danger
of being shot...."
cont

Eisenhower's order was also posted in English,
German and Polish on the bulletin board of
Military Government Headquarters in Bavaria,
signed by the Chief of Staff of the Military
Governor of Bavaria. Later it was posted in Polish
in Straubing and Regensburg, where there were many
Polish guard companies at nearby camps. One US
Army officer who read the posted order in May 1945
has written that it was "the intention of Army
command regarding the German POW camps in the US
Zone from May 1945 through the end of 1947 to
exterminate as many POWs as the traffic would bear
without international scrutiny."

... The [American] army's policy was to starve
[German] prisoners, according to several American
soldiers who were there. Martin Brech, retired
professor of philosophy at Mercy college in New
York, who was a guard at Andernach in 1945, has
said that he was told by an officer that "it is
our policy that these men not be fed." The 50,000
to 60,000 men in Andernach were starving, living
with no shelter in holes in the ground, trying to
nourish themselves on grass. When Brech smuggled
bread to them through the wire, he was ordered to
stop by an officer. Later, Brech sneaked more food
to them, was caught, and told by the same officer,
"If you do that again, you'll be shot." Brech saw
bodies go out of the camp "by the truckload" but
he was never told how many there were, where they
were buried, or how.

For more than half a century the Great Hungarian
Plain, the famous Horto bágy "Puszta" (prairie)
has kept the sec ret of a concealed and inhuman
period of our history. What a terrible contrast!
Our most renowned national park, the pride of
Hungarian tourism, Horto bágy up to this day hides
the secret of the barely known former Hungarian
GULAG, the Hungarian Siberia.

Thinking of Hortobágy Puszta Hun garians envision
the unchanged mag nificence of nature, horses
racing with the wind, migrating birds, and the
fiery beauty of the setting sun. The Puszta also
enchants foreigners, because here in a certain
sense the ancient Hungarian life-style has been
preserved. The sky enwrapped wide horizon, the
peace of the prairie all speak about liberty.

Liberty? In the first half of the 1950s, in the
darkest period of Hungarian communism, Hortobágy
was the scene of the tragedy of several thousand
fa milies who were taken there as captives. From
1950 to 1953 about ten thou-sand people, thousands
of families suffered in twelve forced labour
camps, and this happened in peace time, in their
own country they were treated like slaves. So far
the public knows very little about the facts.
Until the political changes the still living
victims did not speak, they were not allowed to
speak, the inaccessible archives were locked even
for historians up to 1995.
http://www.magtudin.org/Hortobagy.htm

http://www.magtudin.org/Hungarian%20Holocaust.htm

Julia Teleki

HUNGARIAN HOLOCAUST

@Mark: My question can be answered in any way, free
of anything else said here. It is not a closed
question as Justasking tries to portray it. You can
answer yes/no or provide a reasoned approach.
1. Is it wrong to prosecute people and suppress the
freedom of expression in any country under a law
that claims such free expression amounts to "public
denigration" of that country, state, its people or
its institutions?
Bobs, Ricsi... any of you want to answer this or
respond?

Hi Law,
Thank you for your post. We owe your parents a debt of gratitude that raised you a patriotic Hungarian. You contributions such as this post for Hungary are very valuable and I have nothing but contempt and scorn for those who would any way question your Hungarian identity. We need a lot more like you who are living in Hungary and able to communicate with Hungarians and English speaking people as you do. Have you tried to post some of this to Jobbik’s English language site?
I also value “Justasking” because he/she treasures her family’s tragic history under the Communists rue of terror. Reading about his/her uncles’ death and his/her father’s near death makes me think of the heavy price some Hungarians paid for being patriotic. Justasking may not speak a word of Hungarian, may never set a foot on Hungarian soil and still be a patriotic Hungarian because honoring our history and our martyrs is what brings us closer together than language or where we may be living. I would still be curious if Justasking ever considered moving to Hungary, at least as part time resident, anytime in the future. Recalling Vörösmarty Mihály’s Szózat, “Áldjon vagy verjen sors keze: Itt élned, halnod kell.”
Many Hungarians spent many years in other countries but in the end, those that eventually found their way home were able to contribute in ways that it is not possible from far away. Great to have you where you belong my friend.

Law has done it again!

The Nazi site that he links to (wintersonnenwende):

"Our foremost task is the English translation of the book Gebt mir vier Jahre Zeit! Dokumente zum ersten Vierjahresplan des Führers - "Give me Four Years Time! Documents on the Führer's first Four-Year Plan"."

That says it all, these jobos are not only extreme right wing ascists, they have strong connections to the Nazis ...

@Vandorlo
I am not going to be sucked into your game and will not address your question as you present it. Instead, I answer with The First Amendment to the US Constitution:

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

I would be happy with the Bill of Rights but the current government of Communist MSZP/SZDSZ criminals, their courts and police do not respect freedom of speech, or assembly.

However, if you or anyone else wanted to place any restriction on freedom of speech in Hungary and punish those who would dispute the official version of Jewish Genocide, offend Jews, Gypsies or other minorities, I would want equally strong and even stronger laws protecting Hungarian values and punish those who offend Hungarian values because Magyarország a magyaroké!

Dear Mark
Thanks for the kind words, especially coming from a
fellow patriot. I will contact the site to see if
they can upload some articles, in the meantime here
is a link with some interesting reading in English
and if you go to the home page there is many more in
Hungarian language. Keep well my dear friend.

http://www.magtudin.org/English%20Index.htm

Nincs undorítóbb mint amikor a zsidók zsidóznak vagy amikor a német nácik náciznak.

It's probably nothing new but I repeat it anyway:

Most of Law's postings here (if not all) are just quotations from Nazi sites or other lunatics like stornmfront, so you can't take anything serious. It is all a concoction of unsubstantiated lies, like those Kopp books.

You run the danger of believing a complete idiot if you take any of his postings seriously ...

It is really funny in a way this ranting ...

Nincs undorítóbb mint amikor a zsidók zsidóznak vagy amikor a német nácik náciznak.

@Everybody:

You don't have to follow Law's last link - the so called "Institute of Hungarian ..." is full again of Trianon shit - you know the type ...

I still wonder, when will they ever acknowledge what happened and have a look at the 21st century ?

Hi Law,
Here is a work by Puchert Dóra, a 15-year-old Hungarian girl about the judges who murdered Hungarian patriots after the Uprising:
http://www.kazinczy-komlo.sulinet.hu/diak/siker/puchert.htm
Her, story is similar, not same as Justasking’s story.

@Mark: "I would want equally strong and even stronger laws protecting Hungarian values and punish those who offend Hungarian values..."
Well, there we are! These are the laws you condemn in Turkey, that are used to suppress and deny the Armenian Holocaust and you would like to introduce that here. In fact Jobbik, and Morvai in particular, have often spoken of this.
@Pávaszem and Mark: Mark bleated "Magyarország a magyaroké!" and Pávaszem you asked me last week was there anything to learn from Irish history. How does the phrase 'magyarosabbak a született magyaroknál' ('More Hungarian than the Hungarians') sound? Ridiculous? Offensive? Illogical, impossible, idiotic...? Because its equivalent is a common enough phrase in Irish history: "Hiberniores Hibernis ipsis" ('More Irish than the Irish' or 'Níos Gaelaí ná na Gaeil iad féin').

@Pávaszem and Mark: Just to correct my Hungarian before you do: "magyarabbak a magyarnál"

@Vandorlo
You are indeed a man without any honor. Taking my statement not only out of context but splitting my sentence to give it, an entirely different meaning is as low as anyone could sink in a debate. It is no use arguing or debating you until you buy some integrity.
I do not believe that you are Irish.

@Mark:

And you are a "foreigner" without brains!

No "real" Hungarian would want you, just those Nazi assholes like Law and his stormfront buddies ...

@Mark: "I do not believe that you are Irish." Neither do I. I have repeatedly stated that I am not Irish, my parents are though (and their ancestors back to at least the 17th century). I was born and raised in the mainland of Britain. Just to make it really clear for you people to understand. I am not Irish. Hope your model of nationality, genetics, phenotype, genotype and patriotism can cope with that.

:-)

@ Mark;

Just caught your post from yesturday. Yes I speak fluent Hungarian and my reading is slow; but, I can read. I admit though, I do tend to flip from Hungarian to English and back and forth pending on who I am talking too and how comfortable I feel with that person/conversation. Yes, I have been to Hungary several times, for we have Uncles, Aunts, cousins and friends there. As a matter of fact, my Dad and I plan on being in Hungary again this Spring. Between my Dad (step)and I, we teach my children Hungarian and they tell people that they are Hungarian Canadians, just like I taught them to say/feel. I would move to Hungary in a New York minute, if I could convince my husband. Time will tell. Oh, and yes I am a female. Gotta go, I'm off to bake, of all things, Tepertos Pogacsa. See you in a few hours.

@justasking
I did not know if I should refer to you as a she or as a he. I was not fishing for personal information but thanks for sharing.

@ Mark;

Didn't think you were fishing, just commenting on what you wrote approx 17 posts up.

@justasking
The information you posted about yourself and your family explains why you took issue with me when I said that Hungarian girls make better wives and American boys make better husbands. It is only natural for you to take care of everything in the home regardless if you have an outside job or not. American wives expect the husband to take home the beacon, cook it, discipline the kids and do an equal share of housework, regardless if they have an outside job or not. Your Canadian husband is lucky to have a Hungarian wife and so are most Hungarian men. The difference is that while Canadian and American husbands know that they are lucky but many Hungarian husbands take their good luck for granted. As always, there are many exceptions to what I just wrote and those Hungarian men who share in the housework are excused…

Mark describes his generation of Hungarian women, who were raised during the Communist era (pre-1990 to be totally clear for the morons).
My wife is similar and she is as Hungarian you can get (How do you really check?).
But, my experience (through friends and children and my wife's complaints), is that the Hungarian girls of today expect that their men actually do something at home.
As usual Mark is portraying a stereotype as 'reality' and Law will have an outburst in that 'The Hungarian Way is destroyed by evil multi-culture'-type of.
This has of course nothing to do with Hungary, it is just an adjustment to modern production realities, where women do have more opportunities not only to be a house-wife, it is still a hard time for women with a lot of double-work and double responsibilities, so Hungary has some way to go yet.
One thing would be to introduce a law forcing men to be at home with the newborn for 3-6 months. 'Forced' in the sense this, by the State paid leave, would not be able to take out by the Mother and not at the same time as the Mother takes out her leave. This normally create a better bound between the Fathers and their children, which normally the Family as a whole can benefit from.

@Mark: Read about your own country and the importance of women in the workforce for the economy: http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15174418
Are you sure you are not a hard-line communist out to cripple this country?

Teljes gőzzel folytatódik hazánk izraeli
fölvásárlása

http://hazaiporta.hu/index.php?
url=termekkartya.php&termek_id=3340&info=Haboru_a_ne
mzet_ellen_I-IV._-
_DVD_Jelenczki_Istvan_Az_elrabolt_nemzeti_vagyon_-
_dokumentumfilm

Vandorlo: “Are you sure you are not a hard-line communist out to cripple this country?”

I have seen this crap a thousand times. When Communist trash has no other defense against those who are wise to them, they pull out the “you are a Communist” card. It usually follows the “you are a Nazi, you are an anti-Semite” card and all the usual crap we get from your kind. There was a time when it worked and if you were Irish you would know the saying “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.” You cannot fool anyone anymore because people can smell you a mile away.

@Mark: Ordenáré mű-magyar vagy.

Magyarország a magyaroké! Vérszívók takarodjatok!

@Mark: "...if you were Irish you would know the saying..." Hogyhogy?? A klisé kifejezésed nem ír, hanem görög eredetű: 'Το δις εξαμαρτείν ουκ ανδρός σοφού'.

Júszef: “Teljes gőzzel folytatódik hazánk izraeli fölvásárlása”

Ez igaz de amit elharácsoltak azt vissza is lehet venni. Fidesz is igért elszámolást de Jobbik vissza megy akár gengszterváltásig és minden ingatlan “üzletet” átvizsgál. Ezért félnek jobbiktol a fosztogatók.
Szebb jövőt!

@ Mark;

I thought that only "Southern Bells", expected their men to do what you described? I say this from a womans perspective, who has been to Texas a few times.

I understand what your are saying and your right. That being said, in my opinion, you are describing my Mothers generation, and that was what was expected at that time and there is nothing wrong with that.

Viking;

I see your point as well and agree with you as far as Mat leave for both parents (allowed in Canada and encouraged). I also feel that women have been led down the garden path to believe we can "have it all" and we can...for a price. In my opinion, for me to have it all, somebody has to pay the price and I feel it is the children that are paying.

@justasking
After the Uprising, a lot of boys escaped but not as many girls. Most Hungarian guys would have given their right arm to find a Hungarian girl but in most cases, they had no choice but marry American girls. The cultural differences that makes your husband think that he died and gone to heaven because he married a Hungarian girl tends to work the other way around when Hungarian boys marry American girls. The divorce rate is very high and the wife usually gets the children. The children get no Hungarian identity even if the parents do not divorce.
I am not sure which is worse, the children losing their Hungarian identity or having scum, you see on this list trying to besmirch the children of refugee parents who preserved their Hungarian identity. I despise them more for their attacks on Law and Ricsi more than anything else. They are very valuable for Hungary because they contribute as patriots, not take and take as the parasites do.
The children of Hungarians who marry American girls are Americans. Not Hungarian-Americans but Americans. Maybe it is a good thing. Hungary is not only surrounded by countries that we do not have the best relations but our society is corrupted by the likes of these foreign parasites who hate everything about Hungarian traditions and culture.
Maybe it is best not to burden the children with the tragic history of Hungary when they have an opportunity to belong to the most powerful nation on this planet. No Russian tanks will ever roll down American streets and no slimy foreigners would dare mouth off about Americans in America.
BTW, Southern Belles are beautiful but Hungarian girls are even more beautiful.

no slimy foreigners would dare mouth off about Americans in America
Mark at January 9, 2010 7:30 PM
---
Why should they, they just buy the US and tell the 'Americans' to work.
How many typical US-brands did the Japanese buy the last 20 years.
How much money does the US owe China?
-
"opportunity to belong to the most powerful nation on this planet"
-
Written by a real Patriot, just the country is the US and have the 2nd biggest Jewish population in the world (2006):
1 Israel 5,313,800 40.6%
2 United States 5,275,000 40.3%
We really understand that Mark enjoys his homeland and that is why he thinks the Jews are buying up Hungary.
Of course we do not go in on the topics of the US support for the Israeli illegal occupation of Palestine and the Iraq War. Those questions just bothers Mark's kind that actually live in Hungary.

Now Mark is getting even crazier and Law is advocating the death penalty ...

I won't let them spoil my weekend though.
Good night everybody!