The Socialists will run their campaign for the spring elections under the slogan of “response and responsibility”, focusing on the party’s programme, the party’s head told MTI in an interview on Friday.
As a “serving party” the Socialists want to give answers to most pressing issues such as social security, poverty and enhancing the prestige of working, said Ildiko Lendvai. The party will talk about tasks it can responsibly undertake instead of giving empty promises.
“The Socialists’ programme is based on responsibly distributing the 2,000 billion forints (EUR 7.4mn) surplus to be generated from the country’s economic growth in the next four years, as outlined by the prime minister to the party congress in December,” Lendvai said.
The programme also includes raising pensions commensurate with economic growth.
It is also working on an education, development and tax policy for the next four years in order to create jobs and enhance employment prestige, she said.
Concerning tax policy plans, she said the Socialists would continue to cut income tax – letting wages to gradually increase in real terms – if economic conditions allow such a move.
Lendvai anticipated that their rivals, conservative Fidesz and radical nationalist Jobbik, would run a negative campaign, whereas her party would focus on its programme.
“We, however, will be tough in responding to unfounded accusations and attacks,” she said.
The Socialists’ future depends on whether it could be a large party on the left with a social democratic economic and social policy, a liberal human rights policy and an environmental policy endorsing sustainable development, Lendvai said.
What Socialists? Stinking, bloodsucking Communist trash every last one of them.
„A kommunizmus megbukott mindenféle értelemben. De a kommunistáktól nehéz lesz megszabadulni, mert senki sem olyan konok és veszedelmes, mint egy bukott eszme haszonélvezője, aki már nem az eszmét védi, hanem mezítelen életét és a zsákmányt.” /Márai Sándor/
This is the 3rd or 4th time Mark posts this quote from Sándor Károly Henrik Grosschmied de Mára in Hungarian in the last few days.
Is he trying to say something, that makes him repeat it?
Or he just needs a translation?
Lendvai. That malevolent spirit from former times. She will keep on insisting that the MSZP has a future. It does. In the dustbin.
Bajnai wants to get his roller skates out and disappear into thin air like his former erstwhile boss, Gyurscany Ferenc.
The brigade of the dead are currently selling state assets to provide funding for their election campaign.
The brigade of the dead are currently selling state assets to provide funding for their election campaign.
Chevalier at January 12, 2010 10:15 AM
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Do you have a list?
I have some money over and would like to invest.
Muszály az idegen söpredéknek mindenbe beleugatni?
@Mark: Bocs, de nekem kell kerdeznem valamit: ‘muszáj vagy muszály’? Ki az igazi idegen itt és ki a mű-magyar?
@Vándorló
És nem az előbb mondtad, hogy Angliába nőtél föl? Te igazi Magyar…
@Bobs: “Te igazi Magyar…” Egyáltalán nem, igazi (be)vándorló vagyok, de emiatt nem vallod be, hogy ez nevetséges?
@Bobs..: Bocs, de a magyar helyesírás szabályai szerint: “Te igazi magyar?” a “Te igazi Magyar?” helyett!
@Vándorló: Voltak akik a kohn, rákosi es kádar terror hatalmak alat magyarokat gyilkoltak, halálra kinoztak, magyar hazafiak ellen helyes magyar irasal halálos itéleteket hoztak. Egyesek azt mondják hogy azok is “magyarok” voltak. Te milyen magyar vagy? A bauer féle körömtépő fajta “magyar”?
@Vándorló
Igen hibáztam, ég a bőr a pofámon!
De csak azt tartom nevetségesnek Vándorló, hogy nem honérzés, vagy kulturális vonzás, vagy szülés, vagy örökség alapján ítélted meg Marknak az „idegenségét”… hanem azzal hogy „j” betű helyet „ly” betűt használt. És emiatt (és csak emiatt) gondoltad, hogy egy színvonalba lehet összehasonlítani a Mark és a Viking magyarságát. Nem így van?
Főleg akkor, amikor a Viking nap mint nap bebizonyítja, hogy imádja Magyarországot, persze csak egy kis kivétellel, azaz hogy ott lakik ő mellete az a buta Magyar népség.
Persze elismert felfogás hogy a magyar identitáshoz különessen fontos a nyelvismeret, de az is tuti tény, hogy mondjuk a magyar nagykövetségen Pekingbe vagy Schöpflin György öreg Londoni egyetemébe több ember van, aki tökéltessen beszéli a nyelvünket, de egyáltalán nem tartják magukat magyarnak. Azt sem akarom mondani, hogy azért választottad ezt a kritériumot, mert ez jobb fényt vetít rád, mint mondjuk egy másikfajta besorolás, szülés, vonzás stb.
No. The reason I responded was because this is in fact your problem Vándorló, and everyone deserves to be able to read what it is. You are clearly an intelligent individual, but this intelligence has given you the pretention of thinking that you can get away with delivering “cheap shots” when it suits you: and when they have no foundation whatsoever. The one against Mark just now is a case in point. It is a sort of nursery school remark that falls down as soon as you make a comparison between Viking’s background, his, and your own.
In this you share a very similar quality to that of Dr Balogh, she too believes that being well referenced and logically coherent at certain times, will allow her to slip through unsupported and unfounded rubbish at others; without anyone noticing.
Thinking you can get away with this kind of behavior shows contempt for your readership. But when people do notice it, trust me, it is in fact the author that ends up being held in contempt.
You should reflect on this.
@BusyBeaverBob:
Why don’t you follow Marks’s example and just use Hungarian language for your postings ?
Then the others here don’t have to read them and it makes for much faster scrolling down to the really useful and interesting comments …
Oh that Dr Balogh…
One would be hard pressed to find anyone with better English and Hungarian writing skills with her never-ending hate of everything Hungarian.
Prof. Lipták should be a candidate for sainthood for putting up with the likes of her.
@Bobs…: Since you are not giving the reader the benefit of the full context of the discourse, I’ll summarize it for them:
1. Mark makes basic spelling mistake whilst trying to make a point about foreigners always feeling it necessary to make unsolicited remarks on every topic. [note to Mark: this is a public forum and this *is* the raison d'etre for us all being here]
2. I correct and ask a question I have asked many times in many forms that Bobs.., Mark, Pávaszem… have declined to answer, namely, who are the real foreigners and who the ‘wannabe-Hungarians’ (think what ‘Plastic Paddies’ are to the Irish).
3. Bobs… asks me, “hadn’t I said I was raised in England? Are you a real Hungarian”
4. I respond by repeating stuff I’ve said time and time again: “No, I’m not Hungarian, I’m a(n im)migrant, and because of this do you not admit that this is ridiculous?”
5. I then correct Bobs spelling (there was more than one, but I let the other pass as a lapsus calamus) of ‘magyar’ which far too many people spell with a capital letter.
6. Mark then goes off on one in appalling Hungarian, remarking that “didn’t the usual suspects condemn real Hungarians in perfect Hungarian, torture them to death etc… And there are those that say these were Hungarians… what kind of Hungarian are you… etc” [paraphrasing, of course]
7. Bobs… then comes back and in perfect Hungarian remarks that he didn’t find it amusing that the basis for my question Mark’s ethnicity was not one based on….
cont…
7. “…one based on culture, parentage, inheritance, but on a misspelling of ‘j’ in place of ‘ly’ [a very common mistake, to be honest]. On on this basis and this alone you think you can draw any comparison between Mark and Viking’s ‘Hungarian-ness’. Is this not so?
Particularly when Viking day in, day out reaffirms that he loves Hungary, with one small aside, that he has to live there alongside stupid Hungarian folk.
Of course, it’s commonly recognized that the language is an extremely important part of the Hungarian identity, but it’s plain fact that there are, for example, in the Beijing embassy or the elder George Schöpflin’s London University more people who speak the language perfectly, yet do not consider themselves to be Hungarian in any way. Though I wouldn’t like to say that the reason you chose this criterion was that it threw a better light on you than say some other aspect such as parentage, attractiveness etc… ” [quick translation, all mistakes admitted to in advance, so don't wet yourself picking me up on them].
Well, Bobs… I presume you don’t really want any answer to your indirect question, but I would say it is laughable to me to have a non-taxpaying American time-waster, telling Hungarians and foreign taxpayers what social-political framework they should adopt. Mark (& your) single criterion is adoption of Jobbik hate policy. Any foreigner can be a Hungarian according to Mark, as long as they learn how to bleat. Or are even allowed to buy land.
@ Mark
About Eva Balogh – On January 2nd, she reported on a “Sociological survey among Hungarian young adults”
If that’s not depressing, I don’t know what is.
Hope the article is read by FL – would love to know his opinion on the survey
About Prof. Liptak. I read somewhere he has a son named Adam
I have been reading Adam Liptak’s articles for years – mainly writes about legal issues. He writes for the New York Times, Vanity Fair and a few other major publications. He is a lawyer who graduated from Yale. Wonder if it’s the same Adam.
@Bobs…: Can I ask a question in return? It’s related and was raised initially by Pávaszem. I also asked it of Mark on the 7th January around midday:
____________________
Mark bleated “Magyarország a magyaroké!” and Pávaszem you asked me last week was there anything to learn from Irish history. How does the phrase ‘magyarosabbak a született magyaroknál’ (‘More Hungarian than the Hungarians’) sound? Ridiculous? Offensive? Illogical, impossible, idiotic…? Because its equivalent is a common enough phrase in Irish history: “Hiberniores Hibernis ipsis” (‘More Irish than the Irish’ or ‘Níos Gaelaí ná na Gaeil iad féin’).
Just to correct my Hungarian before you do: “magyarabbak a magyarnál”
_____________________
@Vándroló
1.
Ok a few things to say about this. First, sorry wolfi, but with Vándorló’s permission I’m going to stick to English. Not out of disrespect for you, because you really are such a prick, but out of respect to everyone else posting on an English language website. Hyperlinks are also provided here in case people don’t know what I am talking about. A common affliction of mine…
Right. Now I much prefer this thoughtful reflective Vándorló to the snide childish one, and such efforts deserve a response. An excellent translation whose only error (no fault of yours, lack of clarity on my part) is the subject of György Schöpflin’s old London University. By which I meant SSEES, where he was a Professor.
I pretty much nodded along with everything you had to say, until I came to the line, “Mark (& your) single criterion is adoption of Jobbik hate policy.” Sorry I don’t buy this at all. I am by and large, increasingly a Jobbik supporter. But the Jobbik you describe is not the one I see. Certainly Jobbik, like all nationalist movements can be divided into a sort of Venn diagram and it is an unfortunate one. Where some find it necessary to be a nationalist by primarily denigrating others, while others chose primarily to positively promote their “own kind.” I do not consider the latter to be a dirty practise or phrase…
2.
…and I think my posts here so far amply mark me out to be firmly a member of this second camp.
Whenever I encounter the first type in person, I do everything I can to change their minds. Anti-Semitism for example is something I have no time for. In my book greedy criminal politco-gangstes are just that and nothing more. Being that is their religion, and the only relevance a kippah has, is the speed with which such people put one on their heads when they find themselves subject to legitimate criticism. Anyway I am digressing… My point is my support of Jobbik is centred on what I would call a positive Nationalism, and the degree to which such a sentiment is shared by the Jobbik manifesto about to be released will determine whether my vote goes for them or Fidesz.
The subject of “Magyarország a magyaroké” is a tricky one. And I have three things to say about it:
My first point is linguistic.
The phrase is as you know, not “Magyarország a magyaroknak.” So it is correctly given in English, to my mind anyway, as “Hungary belongs to the Hungarians” and not “Hungary for Hungarians.” So my focus, my concentration is on this word belonging, on ownership. While yours is, understandably, on the question of who are these Hungarians who are doing this “owning”.
3.
If we cast our mind back pre-89 if a Hungarian went to the West they would be met with affection but at the end of the day the Westerner would look down on them with a sense of superiority. Because they would say, “you don’t own your own country. It doesn’t belong to you. Whether you like it or not you belong to the USSR and at the end of the day it is they who tell you what to do. It is not your citizens who decide what the fate of your country is.”
Fast forward 20 years of neo-liberal freedom, and Hungary is pretty much in the same boat, it is owned from abroad. Just not predominantly from one country, like before. The fact that the Western countries are in basically the same situation is an evasion rather than an explanation. So to conclude, to me “Magyarország a Magyaroké” is the quite rational and understandable expression of Nationalist frustration against globalised realities. These will only increase. And whether you consider these right or wrong, to my mind, if you wish to avoid the potential for Fascism/Nazism in the future you must permit such sentiments to access and release pressure within the democratic process.
My second point is about nationality.
Now this is the one which I think concerns you the most. Who are these Hungarians who will do the owning? Well I have been drawn on this topic many times before and I have said repeatedly, so you will excuse me if I don’t go on about it at length yet again…
4.
I’ll just repeat that this is a conflict between jus soli and jus sanguinis conceptions. And frankly I think people should really read both these articles and understand what they mean. Because the same hackneyed phrases are being repeated over and over and over again by both sides ad nauseum ad infinitum. I do not consider one perspective or the other to be morally superior. But broadly I am a jus sanguinis man, because I believe this is the way for European nations to preserve their cultural identities which I believe to be under serious threat in the coming century from a number of directions.
Viking is of course a jus soli man. Europe is finding the need to be increasingly jus soli because of immigration. They don’t want Moroccan on Bengali or Chinese immigrants and their children to feel alienated or excluded. That’s fine, but the point is that the world as a whole is still basically of a jus sanguinis mind. And if you or I went to and had children in Morocco or Bangladesh or China and then proclaimed ourselves and our children to be those respective nationalities and argued with those who refuted it, we would be met (from the corner trash collector to the highest judge in the land) in those countries both privately and from officialdom with bare faced hysterical laughter and utter utter ridicule…
5.
… for putting forward what would be for the majority of the world a patently ludicrous notion.
My final point is a personal one.
Surely respect for the culture and traditions of a country must be some part of nationality? But there are those here who though resident in Hungary and married to Hungarian spouses clearly have very little but undisguised contempt for Hungarian ways, customs and perceptions.
They dismiss them as bigoted and small-minded and would have us all think how they do. They believe residency affords them the right to overturn anything they don’t like. No doubt they have their reasons to believe what arrogantly do, but when it comes to history, and patronising sweeping statements that amount to denigrating the very real reasons why Hungarians think and feel the way they do: I must admit my blood boils.
But does it have a right to? There is a reason why the concept of Magyar-ness is a very “kényes” one. It is very restrictive. Even I often find myself feeling inadequate, I look at my professional life spent predominantly abroad. Now my Hunagrian language is failing because I spend my time primarily operating in three other ones. I recall of the words of the Szózat, “A nagy világon e kivűl nincsen számodra hely…” And can’t help but think to myself, “Tekel? Tekel??”
@ Bobs;
I have always enjoyed your posts and have told you before, I think you have a great sense of humour.
I have to admit though, what you just posted, was by far, in my opinion, your best.
@ Vandor;
Okay, start picking out the typo’s.
Bobs.,
“But broadly I am a jus sanguinis man, because I believe this is the way for European nations to preserve their cultural identities which I believe to be under serious threat in the coming century from a number of directions”
How would this apply in the case of the British or Iberian nations? There are far more people of Spanish, Portugese, English, Scots, Irish or possibly even Welsh descent living outside their native parts of Europe than there are living in them. Should Brazilians be able to vote in Portuguese elections, does that preserve the cultural identity of Portugal?
Despite your insistence of lumping us “resident in Hungary and married to Hungarian spouses” all together, this is serious non-thetorical question. My children are Hungarian jus soli, and British jus sanguinis: I don’t regard them as British in any cultural sense, they have been socialised in Hungary.
Viking is of course a jus soli man
bobscountrybunker at January 12, 2010 6:56 PM
—-
From wiki:
“Jus soli (Latin: law of ground) or birthright citizenship, is a right by which nationality or citizenship can be recognized to any individual born in the territory of the related state”
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‘Jus soli’ means that my children, born in Hungary, would be Hungarians and myself, born in Sweden, am a Swede.
Personally, I will probably always feel like an alienated Swede, because Swedes regard me as ‘strange’ how I moved to a ’2nd class country as Hungary without having any real relation to Hungary (no Hungarian “blood”). That, my fellow Hungarian is how Swedes look at you guys, a ’2nd class country’. Like it or not, how are you going to change this attitude?
-
Living in Hungary, I am met with the attitude that being ‘a rich foreigner (A Jew?)’ taking advantage of ‘Hungarian richness’.
Of course I am taking the advantage and living high on my best ‘Hungarian richness’, my Family.
Do I love them because they are ‘Hungarian’ or because they are ‘My Family’, Bob?
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Bob’s play with words means what?
Wiki tells us:
“Jus sanguinis (Latin: right of blood) is a social policy by which nationality or citizenship is not determined by place of birth, but by having an ancestor who is a national or citizen of the state”
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Are my and Sophist’s and justasking’s children Hungarian or what?
What if I was a Jew, would my children still be ‘Hungarian’ or ‘Swedish’ or what?
In Hungary the Father decides which
Viking,
what do you regard as the nationality of your children?
Viking your kids are mongrel.
what do you regard as the nationality of your children?
Sophist at January 12, 2010 10:15 PM
===
Viking your kids are mongrel.
Pope at January 12, 2010 10:17 PM
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To Sophist:
Actually, but that is me, I would regard them as ‘Europeans’. That is the way I brought them up, what they will regard themselves is up to them.
Given only 2 alternatives (‘Hungarian’ or ‘Swedish’) I would chose ‘Hungarian’.
How can they be ‘Swedish’ when the time spent in Sweden and with other Swedes (except myself) is counted in a week per year maximum?
How can they get the ‘Swedish culture’ growing up in Hungary, with an Hungarian mother, using Hungarian as their Mother-tongue and only has me (who anyway was abroad much of their first years) as a ‘Swede’?
That in their schools they are regarded as ‘foreigners’ by having ‘Swedish blood’ and requested to excel in ‘Swedish Culture and Language’ that I think is another question that is more related to how Hungarians see themselves. My children just want to sit in a corner and be regarded as ‘locals’ and not different (you can obviously not see the difference). The reality is another.
-
And no Law (Huncillin) they are not ‘mongrel’.
The question many readers of this site will ask themselves is:
Are you?
@ Pope;
Lets all leave the name calling directed towards each other and leave our families out of it, shall we?
@ Viking;
I would think that you would consider your children Swedish Hungarians, I consider my children Hungarian Canadians. Whats the big deal and who really gives a shit.
I consider my children Hungarian Canadians. Whats the big deal and who really gives a shit.
justasking at January 12, 2010 10:33 PM
—
I would like to agree with you, but the ‘locals’, both in Sweden and Hungary do make objections.
It is a bit of the old ‘not made here’ and ‘out of town must be bad’ type of attitude.
I think the PC word for that is xenophobic.
When I grew up we treated people from South of Sweden (Skåne) really bad, they could not speak ‘proper Swedish’ as we in the Stockholm area.
For some reason we had no problems with the people from the North of Sweden. Maybe because we had so many ‘immigrants’ from there?
Hey Bob’s Bunker Mentality,
Your Hungarian is only slightly better than Law’s Aussie English. Please refrain from butchering the language of you ancestors (or is it incestors?)
“És nem az előbb mondtad, hogy Angliába nőtél föl? Te igazi Magyar…”
should be:
És nem az előbb mondtad, hogy Angliában nőttél föl? Te igazi Magyar…
Even this sounds as foreign as Vona’s megfelelési kényszere, te hamis Magyar
Viking,
“How can they get the ‘Swedish culture’ growing up in Hungary”
Obviously, I’m in a different situation you: I think it’s actually a problem keeping Anglo-saxon culture out of Hungary – how many hours of Hungarian children’s programming are actually shown on Hungarian TV now? Minimax, Jimjam, Cartoon Network, boomerang mostly broadcast English, American, Canadian or Japanese. My kids are dependent on my wife’s VHS, DVD collection to see Hungarian productions. Because of the lingistic dominance of English, its easy to raise bilingual English/Hungarian kids in Hungary, but I guess it would be much more difficult to raise Swedish/Hungarian bilinguals.
Sophist,
Actually my situation is much more complicated, then we use ‘English’ as the family language, meaning I speak ‘Swenglish’ to my wife, she answers in ‘Hunglish’ and the understanding is not always the best.
The children listen in and pick up some strange ‘HunSwenglish’ or whatever you call it.
I do speak Swedish with my children, but when they do not understand and our mutual ‘Hungarian’ does not fix it, it is back to the ‘Swenglish’.
-
So, to be true, I have ‘given up’ from day one to give my children a ‘Swedish’ culture. I am just such a bad ‘Swedish Nationalist’.
Maybe that is why I will never be as good ‘Hungarian Nationalist’ like Law (Huncillin), Mark and Ricsi?
-
Otherwise I can agree with you about the TV-offer, even if I personally would like that the Hungarian TV (non-children) would abandon dubbing and do sub-titles instead, even on non-English material. I am a great believer in hearing the original language.
-
There are, as I know you know, a lot of good and nice original Hungarian tales as cartoons and films. It is a pity they are not shown more often. Here Hungarian State TV should take their responsibility to stand up towards the US-fixation of everything (sorry Mark).
Even French imports would be refreshing, but that is me.
@Bobs: Trying to respond to the point you raised.
1. “Where some find it necessary to be a nationalist by primarily denigrating others, while others chose primarily to positively promote their “own kind.”” Well, this is certainly a point of difference. I would say, and could find plenty of supporting statements from Jobbik leaders that point to the fact, that Jobbik policies are based around a largely negative social-political framework. Anti-Roma, Anti-Jew, Anti-capitalism, Anti-consumerism, Anti-socialist, Anti-liberals, Anti-gay, Anti-anyonewhodoesn’tbleatintune, Anti-amihangnemunkbennemfirkálnaksemnyafognak…
And it’s a bit strange from someone who quotes from the pen of Bayer Zsolt, whose prose includes the recvolting piece “A medence és környéke” http://www.magyarhirlap.hu/velemeny/a_medence_es_kornyeke.html
Of course, one could say that this is defining themselves by difference and the liberals, socialists and Fidesz do the same. But not to this extent. Jobbik are a party of radical negativity based on intimidation and fear. The implicitly support and encourage their supporters to generate and sustain these threats and intimidation to those the deign to decline from following their modus operandi, radicalism (read extremism).
If Jobbik were a party of positive change why are so many normal Hungarians scared or view them as cranks?
@Bobs…:
2. The point on ownership of the country I think we all recognize that the country has in part been sold out by those in power. There are plenty of examples and it’s depressing to pick through them. And while the argument can go on about who, how, when all this was done I personally believe more will be lost. Jobbik and Fidesz’s proposed policy of bringing the thieves to account sounds lovely, but to do it they would a. Have to replace the judiciary b. Replace all civil servants involved c. Replace the politicians d. Chase the local and international companies e. Demand repayment f. Start confiscating goods and repatriating/nationalising them and g. start imprisoning people.
This will cripple and ruin Hungary and largely put back a communist, single party infrastructure – all in Jobbik’s name.
@Bobs…:
3. On the point of multiculturalism I am not going to speak about Hungary. It’s not my country and it’s pretty clear that Hungarians do not want it in any form.
As for the UK though I have at various times lived in London, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Liverpool, Lancaster, Scottish Borders, Basildon, Dorchester, Bristol, Preston, Bath and Yeovil.
The most ignorant and depressing people I met anywhere, the most small minded, insecure, mealy-mouthed gobshites were undoubtedly the largely white ‘anglo-saxon’ peoples of Yeovil and Basildon. You could not pay me any money to return to those places. I could relate plenty of stories, but those places are soooo depressing. Hurray for multiculturalism in the UK. And lets face it the English never do understand why the Scots, Welsh and Irish are pissed with them when they say ‘England’ and mean ‘Britain’.
@Bobs:
4. On the difference between jus soli and jus sanguinis I would say the importance here is not one of (unbroken) bloodline vs inclusive citizenship (based on language, race etc…), but of the nation state encouraging and supporting the development and maintenance of its culture and traditions whilst also encouraging and supporting all potential citizens to maximise their potential in the nation state to contribute to the future development of that nation state.
Your adherence to jus sanguinis would effectively reject and person who does not have a blood connection to Hungary, no matter if they were born here lived all their life here, worked, generated wealth and capital etc.. This is pretty much what the Japanese do, but they take it further as the weaker your blood ties to the country the more hoops you have to jump through to attain citizenship.
Let’s face it, Hungary’s population continues to shrink, the brain drain is now hemorrhaging and Hungarian universities see their lifeline to survival as one of encouraging more foreign students (as their aren’t enough Hungarians to go round). Meanwhile any graduate of a Hungarian university has no right to search for employment here if they are not a Hungarian citizen. So Hungary as a matter of policy throws out highly qualified graduate every year? How does this help Hungary?
p.s. The zainichi (Koreans) in Japan are an interesting group: http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displaystory.cfm?story_id=7008781
@Bobs…:
5. “Surely respect for the culture and traditions of a country must be some part of nationality?”
Of course, which is why I raised the question of “Hiberniores Hibernis ipsis”, that foreigners can become the strongest defenders and spokespeople for such traditions, language and customs.
“But there are those here who though resident in Hungary and married to Hungarian spouses clearly have very little but undisguised contempt for Hungarian ways, customs and perceptions.” I have to say I have always found the opposite. It is the foreigners who are the most positive and supporting of Hungary and its culture. While most Hungarians are busy bad mouthing their fellow Hungarians, it’s us foreigners who have to step in and point out a few objective truths.
Those you accuse of hating Hungary here, simply hate Jobbik and what Jobbik stands for. That is not equivalent to hating Hungary as the majority of Hungarians feel the same. Most people despise the Jew-bating, racist rants of University lecturer MEP’s that represent Jobbik’s platform. Most Hungarians haven’t even got the time to speak up and say anything, because they know that most are like the foreigners and guest ghost writer from the US of A Mark: they will bleat-bleat-bleat.
Over New Year I spoke and met with Estonians, Spanish, Italians, Polish and Finnish. They all communicate brilliantly in Hungarian. They all love this country and its traditions. They are all far more positive than Hungarians about Hungary.
Towns like Yeovil and Basildon and the people who inhabit them exist everywhere.
Same smalltown hypocrisies that enable people to get through the daily drudgery of their boring and mundane lives.
I live in a village in Hungary. My neighbors do not acknowledge each other let alone converse. They snarl and grunt and go about their daily business living in some sort of blue funk.
Dylan Thomas wrote about that sleepy hamlet in north Wales- Llareggub (Under Milk Wood). Llareggub is D.T.s contemptuous term for village life in N:Wales and rewritten spells BUGGERALL!
“Do not go gentle into that good night
Rage, rage, against the coming of the light”
@Vandorlo and Villager:
Yes, it’s true – even here in a village which is really well off because of its proximity to Heviz and the business that generates for many people, there is a lot of envy. It’s almost as if there were differenzt groups (I don’t know how they define themselves) that don’t speak to outsiders, only communicate internally …
Sometimes I really wonder what it’s all about when one of my neighbours tells me (with glee) that this happened to that guy, the wife cheated him or how he lost some money or that his wine is no good or how the police paid a visit to this neighbours’s house …
It almost seems that (almost) everybody is watching the others.
Of course, that’s not really true, ther also are a lot of quite normal people who just go their own way, but still …
Wolfi, Villager,
Do you live in villages or dormitory towns?
On my last sojourn in the UK, I lived in a ‘village’ just off the M6/A69 intersection. The majority of the 3,000 people living there only slept and parked their cars there. There was also a ‘local’ population which, with 25 year family connection to the place, included me. We went about our business without much interaction with the park and sleep crowd. Labour mobility may be good for the economy, but it is dreadful for the community.
Sophist/Wolfi.This is modern living I’m afraid. I wrote this account almost literally within minutes. Its doom and gloom but I think it reflects modern society -. everywhere!.
The Ghost of Eden Past
In life to avoid anguish and grief
We choose mediocrity and the mundane
Why should we reason, or notice the season
In a scorching desert where nothing grows!
Tomorrow is yesterday and ten thousand
Yesterdays merge at the mercy of a blazing sun
And the result is a nuclear wasteland that covers
The earth like a shroud on a spent existence
The morning arrives unannounced and there
Are no ‘careless whispers’ or crowing cockerels
Just the clock-ticking tedium that measures
The time between dawn and dusk in hours
And minutes – relentless, and now redundant!
All our creative efforts in literature,
Painting, and music, cannot disguise
Nor conceal the hideous grey fabric
Of a futile farce the pinnacle of which
Are the end-of-year-celebrations with
Plastic trees, tinsel, and tinned fruit
From a summer that has now long-gone
Robots replace humans as a workforce
And fit in well with the emotionless, drab,
Hammer-banging monotony that progress
demands!
And high on hopeless hill a button
Is pressed that sends safe, sanitized
Images across a big screen in a room
without a view. The big-brother broadcast
Is bright and non-thought provoking
Always impeccable in its delivery
Of subliminal superlatives
Feeling hungry? Take the new pill
That has all the wholesomeness of a
Cooked meal – without th
ctd
Cooked meal – without the washing-up!
Full of vitamins, proteins, and goodness
With an in-built tranquilizer that prevents
Spontaneous outbursts, fights, and arguments
Oblivion is reached and appetites dulled
The truth is no longer accessible
Love is meaningless and has been replaced
With the pursuit of self-gratification
To the extent that we are no longer
Able to communicate or interact
With each other and depend on the stimulus
Of products manufactured by faceless
Corporations and multi-nationals
Empowered to provide the shareholder
With a healthy end-of-year dividend
Corrupt councils, committees, and quangos
Are appointed to ensure the smooth running
Of a system that should have been replaced
A long time ago but remains because
It serves the means and ends of the cronies
Miserable in chairs with mindless stares
Whilst they share out Marie Antoinette’s cake
Cats, canaries, and dogs, are caged
And kept as trophies and then
Shown to casual, unsuspecting visitors,
Who consider them to be a nuisance
And a diabolical imposition on the senses
With their feathers, fleas, and freakish antics!
Scornful clones complain about the weather
Then secretly from inside their stone-clad
Castles shift heavy curtains to spy on
Postmen, poachers, and passing lorries
That carry the goods that will very soon
Be stacked and packed on supermarket shelves
Where each sale is regarded as a success
And recorded on a global database
For marketing and stock-
For marketing and stock-taking purposes.
Wary, and weary of a world, where even
The most beautiful flower now looks wilted
In the stench of man’s choking pollution
The evolution cycle is completed.
And, here in the place of golden daffodils
Lies the unnamed ghost of Eden past!
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