"said after meeting representatives of Israel's Knesset in Budapest"

Maybe Mark has a point...

So will Jobbik support a bill "which also seeks to ban the denial of crimes under the communist dictatorship" also?
Mark has hinted that it would be the criteria, but they will probably want to add 'anti-Hungarism' how ever you define that?
Just to be off against all other. Jobbik loses so much when they are started to be looked upon like a 'normal' party, so they will have a problem joining in.

What is next? It depends on the ones in power in the future...very dangerious.

Freedom of speech is the most important freedom of europian culture and let's keep it that way. Even when we don't like what others have to say.

@Géza
Hungary is one of the few bastions of freedom of speech still remaining in Europe. They should look to US Bill of Rights and tell Mesterhazy, the Communist party's prime-minister candidate and Israel's Knesset to fuck off, especially Israel's Knesset, those war criminals. However, I believe that if Communist crimes are treated same as Nazi crimes; Fidesz would probably support a denial bill. It would be stupid to agree to anything the Communists propose.

It would be stupid to agree to anything the Communists propose.
Mark at January 14, 2010 2:26 PM
---
Aahh, It is not important what you say or do, the important is *who* is saying and doing things.
Yes, real politics to move the country forward, we should all play our small games.

@ Viking;

I guess people could use the same standards to define anti-Hungarians as they would anti- Semites. Just a thought.

Would questioning "how many people died in the Holocaust", would that be considered a form of denial?

Justasking,

"I guess people could use the same standards to define anti-Hungarians as they would anti- Semites. Just a thought"

A good thought - though it would expose Mark's terrible double standards. Which definition of antisemitism do you recommend we base it on?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism#Definitions

@ all

Sounding like a broken record: The Holocaust Denial denies the 5 million Non-Jews who perished as well. Poland had the worst losses.

I believe we went over this a thousand times Hitler's Holocaust was not worst then the Communist holocaust. Equally horrific. Has anyone denied it or debated it?

Can we move on?

Mark, Still waiting for your promised posting about the parties that you think should be on the ballot this spring

Not a trick question but then again it's not a cut and past job either.

Olgate>
I will answer the question that you continually pose
about which parties Mark would like to see on the hustings come Spring: JOBBIK, JOBBIK, JOBBIK, and JOBBIK.
Fidesz will win, MSZP will vanish without trace,
MDF (who knows or cares).
Jobbik? Wait and see!
PS. Now you can finish the washing-up.

@ Kerdes

Thank you.

I understand your support for JOBBIK. You also answered the other question - that in your opinion, no matter who the future leaders will be for MSZP, the party is dead.

I knew FIDESZ was expected to win.

To recap - - - FIDESZ and JOBBIK should be on the ballots, any other party is a waste of time.

It will also mean that any votes for MSZP will take away a vote from FIDESZ and JOBBIK

I hope there will be a huge turnout election time

The fine reference makes it clear that anyone who finds any fault in any Jew or Israel is an anti-Semite. I knew that without the link.
For completeness, those who claim that the destruction of Gasa and the brutal slaughter of close to 1400 Palestinians, hundreds of women and children, was anything other than proper and balanced self-defense are also an anti-Semites.
Those who suggest that a high percentage of Communists were Jewish are also anti-Semites because, well just because.
Did I miss anything?

Did I miss anything?
Mark at January 14, 2010 4:15 PM
---
Yes,
What do you need to state to be 'anti-Hungarian'?
What do you need to state to deny 'Communist Holocaust'?
-
The law is obviously about 'Holocaust-denial', so I suppose you can claim all other 'anti-Semite' things you want?

@Olga, Sophist, Viking, Vandorlo, wolfie & Co.

There were no Nazi death camps in Hungary but there were many Communist death camps in Hungary under the Jewish Rákosi rule of terror.

Do you support a law to punish those who would deny the above statement?

@ Sophist;

Good question. After reading that wiki link, I would say NEITHER!

The way the definition reads, especially the anti-, you would not be allowed to say anything about Jewish people in anyway shape or form. Elevating them to a status of untouchable, while of course excluding everybody else. That is not right. People believing they are the "chosen one" is one thing, creating a law stating this, thats a whole different ball game.

If you really want a group of people detested/targeted...introduce the proposed law, sit back and watch the sparks fly.

@Mark: Don't be such a prick and get above yourself thinking you know anything about Hungary or its history. Keep to the bleating, it suits you. Otherwise explain Kőszeg for me.

There were no Nazi death camps in Hungary
Mark at January 14, 2010 4:32 PM
---
No, because the Jews Hungary delivered to the Nazi to be killed *before* the German take-over of Hungary, were either killed by Mobile Killing Units or transported to camps outside Hungary.
A good question is if those 'work-camps' that Hungarian Jews were collected to, were to be classified as 'death camps' or not.
The prisoners had to go first into mine-fields in front of the Hungarian soldiers, they were used to others dangerous work and inadequate feed and sheltered many died.
All this before the Germans came and rescued your 'honour' so you can blame them.
-
But what would substantiate to express an 'anti-Hungarian' opinion?
-
And no, I am not found of curtailing free speech, but facts are still facts.

@Vandorlo
If this is the best you could come up with, practically in Austria, you do not have much. You want to turn a small, small town labor camp where some people died of typhus into a case for “holocaust” in Hungary. I see your point. You need laws, harsh laws to elevate these events above the many others equally or more tragic event that occurred on all sides during the war into something else. Many things happened during the war that nobody is happy for them. Many tens of thousands of Hungarians were massacred by the Romanians and Serbs during the war. That was war, dirty, awful, horrible war.
What the Jewish Communist Rakosi government did to Hungarians was after the war. It was deliberate and it was cruel. They were not satisfied with killing people. They tortured people beyond imagination.

What the Jewish Communist Rakosi government did to Hungarians was after the war. It was deliberate and it was cruel. They were not satisfied with killing people. They tortured people beyond imagination.
Mark at January 14, 2010 4:57 PM
---
You obviously missed that part about Dr Mengele in those camps you do not believe in anyway, so that is why you never heard about hem. Dr Mengele did not work with the war, he worked with civilians.
You also have Gestapo, the German civilian police force, who "tortured people beyond imagination".
Their activities had nothing to do with the war, they did that before also.
-
The problem the Soviets had after occupying Hungary was a lack of Hungarian Communist Cadre, so they did what most occupiers do, they turned to the Security Officers, the torturers, prison guards, of the previous enemy. After a simple screening, most of these people could continue their task from the previous regime.
Why, because this kind of people are trapped in their role and if they do not kill themselves, they will continue for anyone who lets them.
In the end of the day, it is just a job to torture people just that enough, so they say what the boss wants to hear. What the victims are saying is not so interesting for the torturer.

I am against both these suggested laws. Laws making it an offence to deny the Holocaust or Communist crimes. Because I feel the idea of having "officially sanctioned" history whose questioning is punishable by judicial penalty, is, a bad idea. It is at its heart a totalitarian idea.

However, were both such laws to be introduced, an interesting scenario presents itself. The crucial difference is, of course, that whereas the perpetrators and victims of Nazi crimes are, by and large: dead; a great many of the perpetrators and victims of Communist crimes are very much alive.

There would no longer be any excuse not to hold such perpetrators to account for their actions. All we would need to do therefore, is just look into the archives and find out...
Oh...
Hang on...
Errr...

@Mark: A few points:
1. Why do you keep accusing others of bringing up the Holocaust when it is always you, Law, Ricsi or one of the other members of the astroturfing team?
2. The location is now important? Almost in Austria? Which border are you talking about? Post Trianon. Try also Sátoraljaújhely is is that too East and close to the Ukraine for you? WTF? How does your 'mind' work?
3. Is Budapest central enough for you? www.holocaust-history.org/hungarian-photos/
4. Yes, it wasn't just here, Croatia, Slovakia, Romania they all had work camps and massacres. Occasionally the Hungarian Nazis (no honestly real Nazis, not just the internet sock-puppet trolls) helped out in those too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXCADHpBz0k
5. It is never is and never was a case of either/or, but both. Most people, normal people are appalled by both. Only sick fucks take sides.

Vandorloo why don't you look in the mirror you sick
fuck!!

@Law:

The intellectual enormity of your well spoken comments never ceases to amaze me ...

Congratulations on proving again the mental superiority of jobos over us regular people!

Justasking,

"you would not be allowed to say anything about Jewish people in anyway shape or form"

Well, you would have to be really careful on how you phrased anything negative. I found the EUMC defintion the scariest, because it conflated criticism of Jews with criticism of Israel. But going back to your original idea, of defining anti-Hungarianism along similar lines I thought professor Baring's definition the most useful:

" Jews [Magyars] are not only partially but totally bad by nature, that is, their bad traits are incorrigible. Because of this bad nature: (1) Jews [Magyars] have to be seen not as individuals but as a collective. (2) Jews [Magyars] remain essentially alien in the surrounding societies. (3) Jews [Magyars] bring disaster on their 'host societies' or on the whole world, they are doing it secretly, therefore the antisemites feel obliged to unmask the conspiratorial, bad Jewish [Magyar] character."

I have actually seen antimagyarism of this sort in of all places The Economist, on the readers letter's pages. The letter from someone in Slovakia, claims the Magyars turned up on their horses in the 10th Century, destroyed a thriving Slav civilisation and have been oppressing the Slovaks ever since.

Even if we can usefully define antimagyarism, I still wouldn't outlaw it or holocaust denial, there is nothing to be gained from sweeping people's beliefs under the carpet.

@ Sophist;

I hardly consider living in a mud hut OUTSIDE the Carpathian Basin, civilized. That being said, who am I too criticize a nationality for setting the bar so low.

@Vandorlo
What are you talking about? Read the heading of this thread:
“Socialist party seeks law to penalize Holocaust denial”
Who is bringing up this holocaust thing all the time? The Communist MSZ(M)P that is guilty of horrible crimes against the Hungarian people. Jews want everyone to believe everything they dream up about their holocaust stories, no matter how fake some of these stories are. Do I need to tell you about some really crazy books and fabrications that if the Communist get this law, people can challenge only at the risk of going to prison.
There may have been some Hungarian Nazis and they may have done some bad things but I am not going to believe any of it until I hear it from Hungarians because Jewish Nazis have a tendency to exaggerate and lie.
Jewish Communists should not have helped Lenin and Stalin murder millions in the Soviet Union before Hitler and there may have never been Hitler or Nazis. Some people just never learn.

Jewish Communists should not have helped Lenin and Stalin murder millions in the Soviet Union before Hitler and there may have never been Hitler or Nazis. Some people just never learn.
Mark at January 14, 2010 7:24 PM
---
So Hitler was soooo impressed by Lenin, that he *just* needed to be worse?
Naughty boy!
But it is good that we have people like Mark that can soooo *really* understand why Mr A. Hitler was forced into killing all those bad Jews.
-
"Some people just never learn"

@Viking:

You have no chance trying to reason with someone like Mark - anyway did you know that Lenin's mother was of mixed Jewish, German and Swedish (!) descent - in the eyes of the resident jobos here a kind of "super-mongrel" ...

BTW Hitler wrote the first part of "Mein Kampf" which contains all his anti-semitic policies in 1924 while in prison. So even then it was clear what he wanted to do ...

@ Wolfie;

So, let me get this straight. Your saying people with Jewish, German and Swedish ancestry will produce evil off spring? I take offence to that you anti-Semite!

@justasking:

Did I write that Lenin was "evil" ?

Lenin is buried at Highgate cemetery in London I believe? Not that evil now. The worms have all but eaten him.
"God makes all things good,
Man meddles with them and they become evil"
Jean Jacques Rousseau

Sorry guys. I am p---ssedI Time for my bed. I was thinking of Karl Marx.
I won't trouble you again..honest!!

To All:
Why don't we make separate lists for
Jewish Communists
Hungarian Communists
Hungarian Nazis
Jewish Nazis
Realists (Horthy, Kadar, etc)
along with their crimes, the numbers and ethnicity of their victims.
Keep adding new names and new data until we have enough to draw statistically meaningful generalizations. Let's agree on a starting date, say 1914 or 1867.

@Houyhnhnm (and evrybody):

Why don't we talk about Hungay's future instead of the past.

If this were a live discussion, I would suggest the first to mention the (un)glorious past had to pay the others a beer - that's what my friemds used to do when we were discuusing politics ...

Wolfi,
I agree with your sentiments.
Unfortunately, however, the past seems to be blocking the way to the future. Even worse, to many the past is the future.
My recommendations is to disabuse them of their delusions.

@ Wolfie;

So, you do not deny your anti-Semetic thoughts?

@ Wolfie;
So, you do not deny your anti-Semetic thoughts?
justasking at January 14, 2010 11:13 PM
---
Well, he wrote it to me and if check what he wrote only 1/3rd was anything slightly 'semitic', the rest was definitely Aryan.
-
"did you know that Lenin's mother was of mixed Jewish, German and Swedish (!) descent - in the eyes of the resident jobos here a kind of "super-mongrel" ..."
-
Tsarist cultural mores defined the Ulyanov family stock as "ethnically mixed"
"Mordovian, Kalmyk, Jewish, Volgan German, and Swedish, and possibly others"
-
Actually, given the fact that Lenin was born in a Volga city and the Rus (Vikings) were in that area spreading culture and wisdom and leadership to the locals, Lenin was probably a Super-Swede.
That is why Lenin's mother went and visited her son in Stockholm in the fall of 1910.
-
So maybe Swedes and not Jews are the most 'evil' people on the world?
It is the Vikings...

@ Viking;

Actually, I was trying to make a point. This type of law could and will lead down a slippery slop in so much that the potential for abuse can not be denied.

The way I threw out to Wolfi that he was being anti-Semetic was for effect. If this law were to be passed and implemented, instead of it being thrown out for effect, you would be legally charged. Even if a person was to be found innocent, the damage would already have been done. Thats all I was trying to show.

justasking,
Until we discuss a valid proposal to such a law, it is just what we want to think it should contain.
Criminalise 'Holocaust-denial' is not the same thing as criminalising 'anti-Semitic' (however you spell it) statements.
It is also a good question how 'denial of crimes under Communism' should be defined.
And then we will have the obligatory demand from Jobbik and a few more on laws against 'anti-Hungarian' statements.
If any one has links to similar laws in other countries, they can be used as comparison.
Foreign Jobbik-people normally claim that Hungary is one of the few places where this type of laws are not already in place, so let us look at other countries and see how those laws have changed those societies.

http://kuruc.info/r/35/53649/

And the point, Robi?
If you are too lazy to even write one sentence in English, how many of the people here (excluding the Jobbik-guys who just love kuruc) do you really think will go there?
And the Jobbik-guys already been there, so?
You get paid by the hits?

@ Viking;

Well, here is my one sentence in English.

What is the point of criminalizing the denying of the Holocaust?

To give a quick summary of Robi’s link, some gypsy kids beat the daylights out of each other and the Communist media tried to pass it off as Hungarians, better yet Nazis beating up on gypsies. The reference has the two vides. One showing the gypsies doing their thing to each other and the other the Communist media lying about it.

Is that correct Robi?

Even better is the story about Győzike, the gypsy TV star who claimed that he was beaten up and robbed but had to admit that it was a hoax:
http://www.magyarhirlap.hu/online/gaspar_gyozo__hazugsag_volt_a_rablas_.html

Maybe some of you geniuses who claim to live in Hungary and know what is best for Hungarians should learn some Hungarian so that you could read a variety of Hungarian media besides sucking up each other’s lies. As an incentive to you Hungarian haters, there is a lot of Hungarian language, anti-Hungarian Communist media that you would find enjoyable.

The Barikad magazine, until recently available in printed form monthly, will be available weakly. During the Soviet occupation, the Nemzetor, published in Germany was available worldwide. Barikad should strive for the same thing.

“What is the point of criminalizing the denying of the Holocaust?”

That should be obvious. They could use such a law to stifle any and all criticism of Israel and Jews with the “holocaust” card. You could murder someone and get probation as in the case of a gypsy who beat to death a Hungarian but for “holocaust” denial, you could get long prison sentences. They could accuse anyone of being a “holocaust” denier for the clumsiest of reasons and use it to intimidate people to give run of Israeli colonists. It could be more intimidating and more effective at keeping people down than Rakosi’s Jewish AVO was.

They tried similar shit in America but they could not overcome the Bill of Rights, freedom of speech protection.

But, Mark, is not something like a 'Holocaust Denial' law active in Austria, Germany, the UK and France?
I am not 100% on this, but you are the 1st person to claim that Hungary and your claimed country (even if you really must be awake odd hours), the US, are the only 2 countries left that this 'Holocaust Denial' Law is not introduced yet.
So, could you give us some examples where other countries 'Holocaust Denial' Laws has been used in the way you hypothesize in your post at January 15, 2010 9:47 AM.
Or they are just childish remarks?

The arrogance of the Communist MSZP and the war criminal Israel's Knesset to come up with this “holocaust” thing at a time like this is truly astonishing.
Hungary’s economy is in ruins due to Communist MSZP and SZDSZ corruption and the thievery of foreign interests. According to Magyar Hirlap, 1.7 million Hungarians face evictions:
http://www.magyarhirlap.hu/gazdasag/a_bankok_17_millio_embert_tehetnek_az_utcara.html

Is anyone here stupid enough to think that these people give a rat’s ass if somebody denies your “holocaust” or not. I heard so much stuff, some probably factual, some fabrication that I just do not know what to think.

The Jewish Betlen kept bugging Vona about the “holocaust” in spite of Vona’s repeated requests that he was there to talk about Jobbik’s program and did not want to get involved with other issues but Betlen just would not give up. Finally, Vona told him that he was there to discuss issues important for Hungarians and if he was only interested in discussing the “holocaust”, he should move to Israel. The Communist media made a big fuss over Vona’s comment but he was 100% correct. Hungarians should be concerned with issues important to Hungarians such as what to do about the 1.7 million Hungarians facing eviction.
The Communist MSZP and SZDSZ gave billions to the banks without demanding that they take some responsibility for the loans they irresponsibly issued. The Communist MSZP does not care about Hungarians.

Viking,

"is not something like a 'Holocaust Denial' law active in Austria, Germany, the UK and France?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial_laws

I hope not in the UK yet, but we are sailing close to its equivalent in protecting the sensitivities of our Muslim citizens.

Read this last night, found Yale's self censorship disturbing.

http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/2009/12/the-tyranny-of-moderation/

"Jewish Communists should not have helped Lenin and Stalin murder millions in the Soviet Union before Hitler and there may have never been Hitler or Nazis. Some people just never learn." Ahhh, I see now. Hitler's Final Solution was actually revenge for barbarity in the Soviet Union. I never realized he shared such a strong kinship with the Russian they this would have affected him so much.

"Eviction moratorium expires in March"
That is the main point.
Which incumbent Government will "risk to put hundreds of thousands of families on the street" a few weeks before the Election?
Much easier to put in some administrative regulations and let it go a few months more and let the future Government take care of it.
Exactly like they did with the crisis fund deadline:
-
http://www.realdeal.hu/20100115/govt-extends-crisis-fund-deadline
-
A question, because I do not remember.
Did the Hungarian State really give money to banks in Hungary?
Most of the banks are foreign-owned and they have to fix their problems themselves, with tax payer money in West-Europe.
Left is OTP, but they never received any money?

@ Mark;

I was being sarcastic when I asked about the point. On that note think about it, how will they justify to the public, media etc, the need to legally protect one event in history and not others?

@justasking: You might rather ask why the Soviet oppression is supported and celebrated by Jobbik through the continuing presence of the soviet monument. Maybe an appropriate first step is to clear away this eyesore? Or are Jobbik in their pockets too deeply already?

@Vandorlo
You have a clever way to pretend to ask a question while telling a lie about Jobbik.
Do not be surprised if all the questions from you people are treated as provocations and lies, nothing more.

@Mark: It was a straight question and one I have seen Vona shy away from. When is he going to get rid of the monument that is so offensive to the people that their regime repressed? Is appeasing Russia more important that appeasing that of the Hungarian people. Whose interests does he put first?

My God vandorlooo you're a sly dog.

When you guys have finished pissing in the corner, the question still stands.

Please, no reference of Jobbik in the answer, it has nothing to do with them.

Hi Law,
He is not so sly. His pretend questions are based on lies. Anyone can see through it.
What concerns me is that people like him want this “holocaust” law and the way they twist things, without any integrity and logic, they could criminalize anyone who stands in their way.
For example, they would accuse someone who does not want to sell choice Hungarian real estate to Israelis for a fraction of their value of “holocaust” denial. While their victim was fighting his legal battles against their false charges, they could steal whatever they did not yet steal of Hungary.
It has nothing to do with the memory of victims of Communist and Nazi terror but about power to rule over others.

@Mark: Thanks but I can speak for myself. This is not true of me or my position concerning any proposed law: "What concerns me is that people like him want this “holocaust” law" Logically, you might be correct 'people *like* me' may want it, but I don't. I would like to discuss this with them, should you meet any, as it will be far more interesting than taking up the matter with 'people like you'.
@Justasking: Ask your buddy Mark to shut up about Jobbik and we would all be a lot happier.

For example, they would accuse someone who does not want to sell choice Hungarian real estate to Israelis for a fraction of their value of “holocaust” denial
Mark at January 15, 2010 3:51 PM
---
But, Mark, on April 12 this country will be liberated again, so any 'Holocaust Denial' Law will not be implemented in that way you describe, because your best friends the Fidesz will have control over everything.
So what can then be wrong to have a Law that forbids:
- Holocaust Denial
- Communist Crimes Denial
- Anti-Hungarian Statements
And of course the biggest eye-sore in Budapest (after the 'Soviet Whore' was revamped into 'All people who strive for Liberty' or something blend like that), the Soviet WWII-monument in Budapest will of course also be removed and replaced by a Bus Stop or something appropriate.
Is not the future wonderful?

@ Mark

Concerning Vandorlo's question - "His pretend questions are based on lies. Anyone can see through it."

How can a question be a pretend question? Please define "pretend question"

You are obviously wrong since Law gave him a direct, clearly understandable concise, well-written answer " My God vandorlooo you're a sly dog. " Amazingly pithy sentence , clears up any doubts one may have had

I bet Vandorlo has been put in his place.

Good job Law.

Olga. You clueless bint! Can't you fly away to some imagined island north of Siberia and perhaps take with you this undisguised fascination that you have for both Mark and his associate, Law?

@VGabor
She said that until September she did not know a thing about Hungarian politics. You have to give her credit for becoming a know-it-all expert in a few months.
She should spend more time with her husband and children and less time following me around like a lovesick puppy dog. What is wrong with this woman? I could be a pre-teenager, an old gizzard, a female or whatever. The woman should have some pride.

You have to give her credit for becoming a know-it-all expert in a few months
Mark at January 15, 2010 5:40 PM
---
Well when the only 'political debate' around here is you screaming 'Communists Jews are responsible for all', then it does not take long to be an expert on Mark/Jobbik.

Please tell me, "Will it also be a crime to deny the fact that 600,000 Hungarian people were deported from Hungary to Soviet Gulags right after the Second World War?"

Your manglement of the English language continues. 'I could be... "old gizzard"??? Do you actually mean the "gastric mill" or in fact mean 'old gizzer' which is a thick, old person. Really, do you even thing before you write these things?

Mark,

"I could be a pre-teenager"

Seems likely.

@ Cest Moi;

" Really, do you even thing before you write these things?" DOH!!!-somehow lost it's impact alone the way.

@ Vandor;

Fight your own battles and tell him yourself.

JA - You're right...spellcheck, then proofread.

@ Cest Moi;

Just reminded me of Bystander the other day. I think he was trying to put Mark in his place, by pointing out all his spelling and grammar errors. Then proceeded to write " Hungarean". So much for that Ivy League school he attended and his grand exit.

Little people, mean little people grab into little things and try to make something of it. I give these posts enough attention to make sure that those with above 10 IQ can understand what I am saying even without double-checking for minor mistakes. I pity anyone who is not able to understand a comment because it has a couple of spelling errors or misused words.
This is far less significant that the sorry state of those who have been living in Hungary for many years, claiming to have Hungarian wives and still did not learn some basic Hungarian to read simple articles or find TV programs. Just how dumb these people are.
What makes these avo/commie types snoop around everyone whose opinions they do not like is another thing. These people and their sneaky ways are the best reason to treat them with outmost contempt.
Why is a woman so desperate for attention that she keeps chasing after someone she does not know anything about?
Hungarians should be weary of agreeing anything the Communist MSZP is proposing, especially anything connected to “holocaust” denial. For one thing, denial has nothing to do with people grieving over their loved ones. Hungarians have been doing it for over 65 years while the successive Jewish/Communist government forbade them to remember and grief over their lost friends and relatives. It is not about grieving and giving respect to innocent victims of Communists and Nazis. In Hungary Jewish Communists while in Germany German Nazis were the worst perpetrators of torture and murder.
Every one should remember those they lost. Anything more is profiteering and chewing on the bones of those long dead for profit. Israel continue to use the “holocaust” to escape world condemnation for doing the same thing to the Palestinians the Germans, wolfie’s folks did to them. Where does this disgusting Germ come off criticizing Hungarians while disgustingly yapping about his “Hungarian wife” when it was they, the German Nazis along with the Jewish Communist who did most of the killing?
Just say no to “holocaust” laws especially those proposed by MSZP, the party of Communist murderers!

Just say no to “holocaust” laws especially those proposed by MSZP, the party of Communist murderers!
Mark at January 16, 2010 8:17 AM
---
But there will be no such law in this Parliament, it is all too late, so do not worry Mark.
All that is just a game for the Election on April 11.
But, I do think that Fidesz will introduce harder laws against 'hate-crime', but that will be after April 11. The reason for that will be the verdicts of the 'Debrecen-Nazis' who killed several innocent Roma randomly.
The question is just when the verdicts will come.

"the initiative… also seeks to ban the denial of crimes under the communist dictatorship" said Mesterházy winking I am sure since the communist dictatorship was his party's dictatorship or has their name change fool anyone? He should also have honored the outstanding European warrants on the Knesset members for crimes against humanity and war crimes. By not arresting and delivering them to the Hague for prosecution he broke the law. What a farce! And what kind of historical arguments are long jail terms anyway? 'Holocaust denial' laws in fact prove that something is very wrong with that story as it is presented to us.

@Sophist: "Yale's self censorship disturbing..." And you take that at face value, of course… &, is that the only thing that bothers you about Yale, Sop? How about: "Yale relied on slave-trading money for its first scholarships, endowed professorship and library endowment. It honored slave traders when choosing figures to chisel as 'Worthies' on the tower at the center of its campus, and only 40 years ago chose the names of slave traders when it was naming some colleges. According to documents these scholars have unearthed, in 1831 Yale officials led the opposition that ultimately stopped construction in New Haven of what would have been the nation's first black college, saying that such an institution in the same city would be 'incompatible with the prosperity, if not the existence,' of Yale…" http://www.stratalum.org/nytimes81501.html OK, so all Gringo ivy league colleges were founded by slave traders, but how about this: "[Dwight School] was founded in 1880 by Julius Sachs, founder of the College Board and member of the Goldman Sachs banking family... In the 1890s, Timothy Dwight became involved in the affairs of the school and it became a feeder school for Yale University..." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwight_School Yale is one of the epicenters of the Symbiosis, Sop...

Psz,

"And you take that at face value?"

If you have information that suggests I shouldn't, please link it.

We've already done the Ivy League and the slave trade, though via Harvard. I think you and I agreee over the "anglosphere" (yeuch!) and slavery. Thanks Psz., you changed the way I think.

Psz,

"By not arresting and delivering them to the Hague for prosecution he broke the law"

Which members of the delegation had warrants out on them?

@kiki: "Mein Kampf… anti-semitic policies... 1924" Such as? Exact quote in German with chapter and page number please. Or have you not even read Mein Kampf? You just know how evil Nazis were, yes? Like Minitrue says…

@C'est Moi: "Hitler's Final Solution" What 'Final Solution?' The problem hasn't been solved at all...

@Sophist: "If you have information that suggests I shouldn't, please link it" You bet: http://➡.ws/輈甿 ( 'the initiative, which also seeks to ban the denial of crimes under the communist dictatorship, etc.' ) The sole purpose of these songs and dances is to make the outrage palatable and to create the illusion of impartiality. "Which members of the delegation had warrants out on them" Binyamin Ben-Eliezer and Moshe 'Bogie the Bloodsucker' Ya'alon? Doesn't almost every Knesset member have an arrest warrant against him? They are a criminal organization, aren't they? "Thanks Psz., you changed the way I think." No problem, Sop.

C'mon Psz.

"Doesn't almost every Knesset member have an arrest warrant against him"

You know that won't cut it with me. You have to show me a) they have warrant out on them b) they were Budapest.

To make it easier, this is the outfit that visited Bp

http://www.icej.org/article.php?id=8354

and this is the membership:

http://www.cac.org.il/members.htm

All you have to do is link me to the relevant warrants! Don't say I'm not prepared to meet you have way when it comes to persecuting Jews.

Psz.,

"The sole purpose of these songs and dances is to make the outrage palatable and to create the illusion of impartiality"

You're losing me here: what impartiality? This is about appeasement - are you suggesting Yale is refusing to publish antisemitic cartoons as well?

Just how tricky those Communists can get. They make a big deal of proposing a law to “ban the denial of crimes under the communist dictatorship” but there is a sneaky catch as always. They also want to make it crime to mention common religion of all Hungary's Red terror-bosses Rákosi, Gerő, Farkas, Révai etc. Nice try, Communist chief Ildikó Lendvai but no cigar.
On the contrary, it should be a crime to deny common religion of all Hungary's Red terror-bosses Rákosi, Gerő, Farkas, Révai etc. Better yet, forget about all that junk because Hungary has enough problems with political/economic and common criminals to make criminals out of honest citizens who happen to question the “holocaust” religion.
Funny that it was not in the MTI release or maybe just left out...

On the contrary, it should be a crime to deny common religion of all Hungary's Red terror-bosses
Mark at January 22, 2010 6:05 PM
----
Of course and who can deny that the Hungarian Forces that murdered 4,211 civilians in Novi Sad 1942 were Christians?
The same religion the Arrow Cross party members had, who killed countless of Hungarians?
It is very important to know their "common religion".
It seems to have real importance in evaluating history and foreseeing the future.

Jewish Israel is still killing innocent civilians to
this day, way out of perspective Lapp Lapp

I'd like to see a nation pass legislation whereby any entity or legislator that tries to pass a law which prohibits a citizen from expressing his or her God-given right to free speech, to self-defense, and freedom of assembly, then that entity or legislator be sentenced to fines, imprisonmen, or execution.

Dan is the man!

God-given right to free speech, to self-defense, and freedom of assembly
Dan at January 22, 2010 6:27 PM
---
I do not know where in the Koran you found those "God-given right", but which modern war has not been fought in the name of the 'God-given right of self-defence'?

Law (passionate truth-seeker, a real HOT paprika with a big heart and a bald head),
Mark (Bernie – brave magyar patriot),
Ricsi (brilliant Hungarian strategist),
Pávaszem (Visitor – Hungarian jennieous),
Bobs Country Bumpkin (a Hungarian Gentleman and schoolar),
Beju (grocer to the stars, jewish wife, owner of kuruc.info),
In’cest Moi (Cheese eating surrender monkey),
Viking (communist Jew, palestinian hollo kauszt denier),
Wolfi (jewish nazi communist fürdös-kurva),
Olga (jewish communist muszka kurva),
Vandorlo (obnuckscious smartass jew commie),
Farkas Laszlo (naïve jew-lover native son of Attila the Hun),
Erik (zsido berenc, holokaust monger, Neo Liberal censorist),
Does anyone have a good Hungarian recipe? My SOB husband keeps telling me that I cook goulash much too often. He even said the other day that my pie was as half baked as my ideas! What a nerve! His family was f***ing polar bears when Hungarians taught the ancient Greeks how to write.
Did you know that Homérosz originally wrote in Hungarian? You can still read his stuff. My father had the book under the broken leg of the commode.
I don’t understand why the gypsies cannot go back az anyjuk picsájába, where they came from. Also the jews should go back to the garden of eden. You have no idea how frustrating it is to be Clueless in Canada.
If you wanna know how I feel just click on my handle below and watch the video all the way thru.
Szebb jovot:
Zsuzsika (if you are igazi Magyar hazafi)

I can't believe that the above was written by she who I used to correspond with under the name of justasking or Zsuzsa. I hope not.

Whoever wrote it was angry and their judgement likely clouded by drink or whatever. The next day, when he or she sobers up and rereads that post, let them be ashamed.

Farkas Laszlo,
You are a softie, a pussy, if you will.
Writing these glowing articles about Hollywood Jews is a disgrace.
They are responsible for much of today’s liberal propaganda.
They have never helped anybody, except their fellow jews (Hungarian implants, or otherwise).
Wake up, amigo. Ourselves, alone.
Szebb Jovot!!!

Justbitching i like the link and thanks for the
compliment :)) Szebb jövõt!

@ Farkas Laci;

Would you give your head a shake! Have you ever seen me end a post with Zsuzsika? Have you ever seen me attach anything to my posts, knowing how useless I am computers? And finally, how would I know that Law is bald?

Thanks for the vote of confidence!

Dear Mark,

I hope that writing a glowing article about Bela Lugosi was fine?

Here's what I want to share with you all on a personal level. My father used to drink and rant about jews. "justbitching" sounds just like him when he was on a bender. As the years went on, his drinking and his rages got worse, as did his rants. He became less rational and was eventually hospitalised for the DT's. Today, he is under guardianship and is incompetant.

I don't particularly like jews or gypsies, and I despise communists. But you can't make them go away by waving a wand or telling them to go back up their mothers cunt as justbitching did.

It comes down to whether you want to have a serious discussion about what's doable or just use this board to vent personal rage and hurl insults. This blog is what we make it.

Now Mark, I liked your respectful response when we were talking about the Balkans. I'll pretend the last post attributed to you wasn't heartfelt or an indiscretion.

Kedves Zsuzsa!

It certainly didn't seem right. "Zsuzsika" would be self-deprecating in Hungarian; it's like calling yourself "little susie" where before you were calling yourself "Sue"!

I try and respect everyone here, even those who I don't always agree with. Over time I've learned that almost everyone who is a regular contrbutor here can teach me something. I've come to respect the intelligence of many people here.

Hit and run provocateurs who avoid stating their ideas and substitute insults instead, or who impersonate others are the big problem on this website.

@ Farkas Laci;

Well, the last time I was called Zsuzsika, I was around 6 or 7. Although, my one Uncle still calls me Zsuzsika, oh well.

Farkas Laszlo,

Sorry, dude, but if you are not with us you are against us. Which will it be? Jew lover traitor or magyar hazafi? Time to decide...

Law,

Glad to be of help, mate.
Happy to see that at least you understood the message clearly.
Pure hearts and clear heads!!!
Szebb jovot!!!

Dear Mark,

I've contributed and said too much on this website to have my love of Hungary and my patriotism to be questioned.

Ever since I was 4 years old, I've heard one Hungarian call another a jew lover anytime they disagreed on anything. It's just busting balls and doesn't mean much, until the participants take it too seriously. I've heard this kind of thing before most of you were in diapers. This kind of stuff went real well with alcohol; I know a lot of Hungarian widows told me so. It never made their men powerful or able to solve their rage.

Are you the same Mark that thanked me a few hours ago for an "education"

Dear László,
That post (Mark at January 23, 2010 1:38 AM) you are apparently responding is not mine. It is a forgery.
I say it categorically, so that you are warned in case of future similar forgeries that I consider you a decent, patriotic Hungarian and appreciate your posts.
I cannot apologize for the post attacking you because I did not write it but the slime who wrote it should.
Best Regards, the real Mark

Dear László,

The (Mark at January 22, 2010 10:09 PM) is not my post either. My last post was (Mark at January 22, 2010 7:22 PM) and said “Dan is the man”. Everything else is forgery.
I hope this clears things up.
A suggestion László, before you react to a post please remember that anyone can post as mark or as you.

Please read:
Ennél lejjebb nincs: nagyon durva MSZP-s netkampány
http://www.magyarhirlap.hu/belfold/ennel_lejjebb_nincs_nagyon_durva_mszps_netkampany.html

Best regards, the real Mark

Kedves Mark!

I was concerned that someone was forging Zsuzsa, and when a "Mark" posted a couple of times last night I had my doubts as to it's authenticity as well, that's why I kept asking "Are you the same Mark that thanked me a few hours ago..."? It didn't add up, and so I am delighted to hear from you this morning to clear it up!

Whoever does this is being a provocateur, and may have psychological issues as well. Most alarming to me was the post from "justbitching". I have developed a fondness and respect for Zsuzsa having exchanged so many posts in the past. I was concerned that she has either had a breakdown or someone was mocking her. I was relieved to hear from her afterwards denying the post.

Mark, I know all to well what you say, it happened to me before, prior to your involvement with this website. It doesn't occur everyday, but when it happens it's definitely annoying. Not everyone may like the idea of a registration process, but it would be the best way to make sure this sort of thing doesn't happen. I wonder if becoming an "All Hungary" member would prevent this?

Thank you for the link! It says that the MSZP has recruited 200 young socialist "internet commandos" to impersonate right wing posters and to derail discussion threads. Nice. What a waste of time and youthful talent! (Note that "Bernie" put his name next to yours! I immediately suspected Bernie to be a provocateur from day one.) Geez, what a mess this place can be!

Laci

Kedves László,

We just have to learn to live with these forgeries and not jump to any conclusions. The next time someone forges my name and tries to run you down, you will know that it is not me. I also know Law and it is easy for me to recognize a forgery when someone uses filthy language forging his name. We have just seen the real Law in some recent posts. Others do not have to agree with him as I do but those who post filth under his name are easily recognized as forgers.

I read some of the comments on Magyar Hirlap articles. You do not have to use a name and almost everyone is “Anonim”. It is not to difficult to recognize when a person pretending to speak for Fidesz posts some filth about Jobbik, a couple of comments later the same person pretending to speak for Jobbik posts some filth about Fidesz. Sometimes people tell the provocateur to buzz of but most of the time they do not even rate a note. As you could tell from the crudeness of the attack against you, pretending to be Mark, these are not the brightest people. You see László, Fidesz and Jobbik are opponents but not enemies and they do not use hateful comments about each other.

Going by the article I posted is correct; we will see more of these attempts.

@ Farkas Laci;

I had feeling that something was up with the "Marks" posts, when I saw the person posting as Mark, using the words "pussy" and "dude". He's slapped my hands a couple of times for useing foul language.

As for your comment of me having a breakdown, if I did have one, I doubt that I would have wanted find the time to post nonsense inbetween bouts of bouncing around in a rubber room.

Z (the real one)

Thanks Zsuzsa and Mark!

What a waste of a young person's time isn't it? These are educated people doing this, who have learned english fairly well, and who have spent some time monitoring this website and profiling it's leading personalities and their particulars.

What are these young people going to go on to in life? Will they use this gestapo like diligence to serve an employer, or some other productive cause besides politics? Can the aid agencies eventually use them, to spy on the aid workers in order to make sure nobody steals goods meant for the suffering? Or perhaps law enforcement could use them as undercover cops or investigators? Certainly the diplomatic service and foreign ministry could use them, with their language skill and given that putting on a false face and false front is essential in the world of diplomacy!

As shifty as these people may seem, there are actually many good outlets for their talents. What they lack is direction, and the MSZP is exploiting them. The only way they can be rewarded is to be given posts by a group of politicians who will make them complicit in further corruption. If that happens, then it won't be just a youth wasted, but a life as well.

How I'd like to meet some of these young people, not to sit in judgement but to talk with them about how they plan on using their gifts on behalf of the nation, especially if their party loses.

"Son of Attilla the Hun"! They didn't have the heart to insult me TOO badly!

@ Farkas Laci;

Well, I suppose they can add it to their resume. I only wonder, how would it read:

Jan,2010-April, 2010: Commissioned by the then leading to politcal party (MSZP), to write nasty comments about the regulars on Politics.hu, in a desperate attempt to hold onto any votes they can.

I may have been called " Clueless in Canada"; but, Law was called HOT paprika. Hopefully it was writen by a woman.

Kedves László,
Did it occur to you that you were not the target? They targeted Law, Zsuzsa and I by writing these posts as if we wrote them to target us. Their idea was to make us look bad by these attacks against you. You can take this any way you like, but you are not controversial enough for anyone on either side to target you. On the contrary, you being a person of considerable standing and respect, the intended targets were those they wanted to make look bad by these crude fake attacks against you. Just an idea.
Have a super day and keep writing your educational posts. I read them and appreciate them even when I do not comment on them. Your posts about classic movies were also very interesting. Keep on pluggin.

Hello Mark,

Absolutely I sensed that I was involved with the purpose of targeting others like Law, justasking and yourself! These people never had enough on me to make me a main target. Not that that stopped them from slinging a little mud my way! I sensed it last night, but I couldn't be 100% sure until I received denials from Zsuzsa and yourself.

I remember the intrigues and dangers of the communist era all too well when it came to expression and association. We're not totally over that yet, but al least the hazards today are not quite what they were then.

Interestingly enough, "justbitching" last night was guilty of the very EU hate speech violation that Ricsi was accused of and threatened with a few months ago. At the time I took pains to remind everyone that this sort of thing can cut both ways; not only can someone on the right be targeted, but someone on the left as well. "Justbitching" can be traced and reported to the authorities. The fact that it was a faked provocation does not exempt it from the letter of the law.

We're good Mark, don't worry. But this can be such a strange place at times.

Aren't you people being just a bit hypocritical?
First of all, where is the forgery?
Which one of you claims to be the REAL justbitching?
As to the supposedly fake Mark, Law, etc. - they have all used different names here. Everyone knows that. Later they selectively disowned their previous identities. Maybe this is what they are doing right now.
What exactly did you find inaccurate or objectionable in my post?
You have called other people much worse before. I just summarized the opinions.
Law liked his description. Farkas Laszlo liked his in part, and grudgingly admitted to the other. It turns out, he doesn't like jews or gypsies any more than beju, he just thinks it is not PRACTICAL to turn against them right now.
Why am I being threatened with EU law violations?
The REAL

Whoah, that sure brought you out didn't it?

First of all you owe an apology to justasking/zsuzsa don't you? Calling her "zsuzsika", "clueless in Canada" and impersonating her, which included putting foul language in her mouth. This is the kind of Hungarian gentleman you are?

Last night was the first time you posted under the name of "justbitching". Why don't you stick around for a while, and let us get to know you better? And stop impersonating others.

Another thing buddy. What I said about the jews should in noway bother you, not after what you said about where the gypsies should go.

@ justbitching;

The forgery came about when you were attempting to sound like me. You want to stir up the shit go ahead, you can call me names til the cows come home for all I care. Just write and sign off as yourself and not others.

Oh, and by the way, I have only ever writen under "justasking" not feeling the need to use other aliases for back-up.

I suppose you could look on the bright side, everybody knows where they stand with you, if nothing else.

Dear justbitching,

You owe more than one person an apology don't you? Your rants sounded like like my sick alcoholic father and I didn't take it well when you called me a jew lover. (I don't hate them or love them; they are just people to me, some good, some bad)

I especially didn't take your critique of me commemorating Adolf Zukor well either. I think it's your turn to start providing some fun entertainment around here.

Dear Farkas Laszlo,

I don't see why I would owe an apology to justasking. Did I say anything about her at all? Especially anything untrue? No, I didn't. I din't even mention her.

On the other hand, I do apologize to you.
Let the record show: Farkas Laszlo is not a jew lover. On the contrary, in his own words:
"I don't particularly like jews or gypsies, and I despise communists. But you can't make them go away by waving a wand or telling them to go back up their mothers cunt as justbitching did.

It comes down to whether you want to have a serious discussion about what's doable or just use this board to vent personal rage and hurl insults. This blog is what we make it.

Now Mark, I liked your respectful response when we were talking about the Balkans."

Now, about the gypsies. What I wrote is in no way different from the view of many posters on this site, especially your esteemed correspondents, Mark an Co. Why single me out?

That brings us to Mark being respectful. Are you kidding?
He IS Bernie, the guy who pretended to be a murderous Jew and Bernie Madoff, until Erik chased him off the site somehow.

Wait, maybe not. Maybe I am Bernie? Or Nacivadasz himself? Or kennewickman? Or ricsi? Sepp 44?

This is so confusing...

Law, can you please help me out!!!
Ricsi, how about you? I said such nice things about you, too. Thanks, mates, in advance.

Szebb Múltat! Vagy Szebb Jovot! Or both.

The REAL

Viking (communist Jew, palestinian hollo kauszt denier)
justbitching at January 22, 2010 9:03 PM
---
The forgery came about when you were attempting to sound like me
justasking at January 23, 2010 8:11 PM
---
To 'imitate' some one under another name can hardly be called 'forgery'.
If someone is signing off posts as Mark and Law, then that is 'forgery'.
I am called the above every week by Mark and Law, Mark denies that Law writes those post of course but it has been going on for months, so if some one is forging anything here it is not a new thing.
Not that anyone normally care what a self-confessed 'bloody foreigner' in Hungary is called...
Hungary is suppose to be for Hungarians only, except those 'International Brothers' who visit Hungary for the 'Day of Honour' celebrations every year, of course.
They have so nice black clothes and shaved heads.

Dear justbitching,

I have a long history on this thread, wheras you have a very recent and short one. I can't say that you introduced yourself well. I never started off or went on as you did last night. That's the difference right there.

You impersonated somebody last night and insulted a lot of people, including me. Not a good way to start off.

Before you quote back to me what I wrote, look at you own post. What do you expect, compliments?

"Before you quote back to me what I wrote, look at you own post. What do you expect, compliments?"

Farkas László at January 23, 2010 8:44 PM

Objectivity. Valid arguments, not credentials.
Is that too much to ask for?

Maybe it is too much. You have never ever confronted Mark & Co. the same way. Why not?

The REAL

"I don’t understand why the gypsies cannot go back az anyjuk picsájába, where they came from. Also the jews should go back to the garden of eden. You have no idea how frustrating it is to be Clueless in Canada"

This was what "justbitching" was putting out last night, in case you weren't up then.

All of the regular participants on this thread were profiled either sarcastically or insultingly, which means everybody was insulted, even when they were "complimented":

Law (passionate truth-seeker, a real HOT paprika with a big heart and a bald head),
Mark (Bernie – brave magyar patriot),
Ricsi (brilliant Hungarian strategist),
Pávaszem (Visitor – Hungarian jennieous),
Bobs Country Bumpkin (a Hungarian Gentleman and schoolar),
Beju (grocer to the stars, jewish wife, owner of kuruc.info),
In’cest Moi (Cheese eating surrender monkey),
Viking (communist Jew, palestinian hollo kauszt denier),
Wolfi (jewish nazi communist fürdös-kurva),
Olga (jewish communist muszka kurva),
Vandorlo (obnuckscious smartass jew commie),
Farkas Laszlo (naïve jew-lover native son of Attila the Hun),
Erik (zsido berenc, holokaust monger, Neo Liberal censorist)"

This makes me puke.

@ justbitching;

And how exactly is calling someone a "kurva" objective?

Oh, I have to go and reheat dinner, it's Gulyas Leves. My SOB husband has been eating it all week. Poor dear.

Here's another post from late last night that I take exception to, and which was denied by the person it is impersonating:

"Farkas Laszlo,
You are a softie, a pussy, if you will.
Writing these glowing articles about Hollywood Jews is a disgrace.
They are responsible for much of today’s liberal propaganda.
They have never helped anybody, except their fellow jews (Hungarian implants, or otherwise).
Wake up, amigo. Ourselves, alone.
Szebb Jovot!!!"

by "Mark"

I will continue my film commemoratives thanks. Some will be dedicated to gentile, some to Jews, but they will all be from Hungary and they will be people who positively identified with Hungarian heritage.

Here's another gem from late last night, also denied by Mark:

"Farkas Laszlo,

Sorry, dude, but if you are not with us you are against us. Which will it be? Jew lover traitor or magyar hazafi? Time to decide..."

I believe that the real Mark wrote this morning and denied this post.

Nobody hands me this kind of ultimatum around here. I determine how and on what terms I comment.

Dear Farkas Laszlo,

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good man do nothing."

Mark/Bernie or another of their ilk asked you last night:
"Sorry, dude, but if you are not with us you are against us. Which will it be? Jew lover traitor or magyar hazafi? Time to decide..."

Indeed, it is. Once again, he is right.

Szebb Múltat!!!

The REAL

@ justbitching;

"I don't see why I would owe an apology to justasking. Did I say anything about her at all? Especially anything untrue? No I didn't. I didn't even mention her".

I keep going back to " say anything about her at all and especially anything untrue"...well, which is it? OR do I go about feeling insulted for being left out?

You see, I thought when you mentioned "clueless in Canada, the comment about my father and signing it Zsuzsika and of course the handle "justbitching"" that you were in fact throwing me under a bus, especially since everybody would think that I, was behind it all.

BUT, if you say that it was all just a coinsidence, then I owe you an apology and I am so very sorry.

Hello justbitching,

Around here it is so hard to be sure who is who.

I think it is time to "escalate" this matter to Erik's attention. Let him determine who the imposters are and take appropriate action, which I think should include deleting forged posts.

There are one too many people around here claiming to be impersonated, and I think it's time for the webmaster to sort it out. I will be communicating my concerns to Mr D'Amato in private.

This sort of chicanery degrades our community, it's participants and the discussion. I am especially concerned, in light of the Magyar Hirlap article about "internet commandos" deliberately doing this sort of thing. At this point, how can I be sure this isn't true? And if it's not true, then who is causing the confusion? On these points, I prefer that the website owner make his own investigation and take what action he thinks appropriate.

Justasking,

You are just asking for it.

First of all: Bon Appétit.

Secondly: Are you claiming to be Clueless in Canada? Are you saying I lifted that moniker from one of your posts?
I did not know your father, consequently I did not know that he kept important pieces of his library under the broken leg of the commode. If he really did, this indeed is a case of amazing coincidence.
No need for apology, however. It is clearly not your fault.

Dear Farkas Laszlo,

I am sorry that my post made you puke. I am wondering why the everyday rants of the very same people "insulted" in my post don't make you puke.
You may have the rare disorder called "Selective Nausea" (ICD-9 code 823.134)

I urge you to have it checked out. It can be serious, even life threatening. I believe Attila the Hun actually died choking on his own vomit which is believed to have been caused by just such Selective Nausea.

The only known cure is a complete purging of your system. All objectionable substances must be removed completely.

I wish you a quick recovery.

Your friend, the REAL

Dear justbitching,

I respect the right of people to say what they want or believe around here, and trust me, I don't like or agree with everything around here. I read a lot of things from both the left and right wing around here that I don't feel it my purpose to argue with. Most of the time, people leave me out of it. If they respect me, I respect that. When something is directed at me or mentions me, then I respond. If I come to someone's support, it may just be that I think a line has been crossed, and does not necessarily mean I am in their "camp" and agree with everything they say. I am in my own "camp", thanks.

With all due respects, the way you started off last night, critiqueing everybody, resorting to a satirical pseudo impersonation that left some doubt as to authorship, followed by a couple of posts whose authorship is also disputed, was not the way to start off. I wouldn't have said this to you, when you bring ME into it, then I will say what I will. The biggest personal insult of all was criticising my commemoration of Zukor. That may not have come from you, but I want it looked into.

We need to break this off. Too much has been going on around here that sounds questionable, not in terms of opinion, but in terms of action. I will be in touch with the web owner.

If any of you feel that you have been impersonated:

1)publish a denial of the post

2)Contact Erik d'Amato.

Dear Farkas Laszlo,

"I respect the right of people to say what they want or believe around here, and trust me, I don't like or agree with everything around here."

Clearly, you have respect the rights of some people more than others.

Personal insults are a dime a dozen around here.

I second your motion to investigate the identities of ALL POSTERS who use multiple handles, impersonate others, who break the laws (EU or otherwise), etc.

I agree to have my IP address and/or other info published here as long as everyone else's is also published to the same extent and under the same objective criteria. If people whose comments you don't like are outed, then people whose comments I don't like should also be outed. This is a basic principal of the law in any civilized country.

As to my comment about "why the gypsies cannot go back az anyjuk picsájába", - this beautiful magyar colloquialism was introduced to the Hungarian political discourse by non other than the Jobbik's presidential nominee, Krisztina Morvai.

The REAL

I personally think we should all settle down here, this is getting a little out of hand. Justbitching, just happened to take things too another level, not one I would enter into; but, it happened and here we are.

It is Eriks responsibility, to have some control over this site, we all agree to that. It is not his responsibility to a be referee, to all are spats, for that is not fair to him. Besides, I don't want his goons coming after me, if Wolfie takes offence to me calling him a dork!

What justbitching did was in very poor taste, and truth be told, I am quite surprised he/she came back to respond to some of the comments that we directed at him/her, throughout the day. The fact the he/she is willing to agree to have their IP address and/or other info (whatever that means), published, also says alot to what this person will stand up for.

Again, I DO NOT AGREE WITH WHAT YOU DID JUSTBITCHING; but, I agree that, a blanket policy, if you will, be introduced. Not one that targets some and not others.

I personally will not be filing a complaint, not because I am scared too; but, because no real "harm" was done. And being "embarrassed" or "insulted" or "humiliated" by a posters comments,(God knows that I've had a few of those) is the price that I am willing to pay to have this freedom to "voice" my opinion.

Like a wise man once said to me: The good thing is, we have freedom of speech. The bad thing is, we have freedom of speech. Or something along that line.

Just on a side note, that guy in the video, I feel for him. What he says, in my opinion is true, he can not say jackshit in his own country for he is being dictated too under the guise of "the new sophisticated, politically correct Hungary" Somebody has too stand up and say enough is enough. Too hell with "political correctness" code for roll over and show your belly, and say either you intergate or get the F@$k out!

And yes my precious Viking, I await your cutting responce!

Yeh, yeh, yeh...integrate and response. Happy now?

Viking, I await your cutting responce!
justasking at January 24, 2010 4:35 AM
---
I am actually not so good at spoken Hungarian, so I have a hard time understanding the niceties the gentleman in the video is saying, but I think what he says (from what I can understand) can be said in any country at any time
Political Correctness, for good or bad, has always existed and will always exist
If we check wiki on 2 important definitions:
-
Freedom of speech is the freedom to speak without censorship and/or limitation. The synonymous term freedom of expression is sometimes used to indicate not only freedom of verbal speech but any act of seeking, receiving and imparting information or ideas, regardless of the medium used. In practice, the right to freedom of speech is not absolute in any country and the right is commonly subject to limitations, such as on "hate speech"
-
Freedom of thought (also called freedom of conscience and freedom of ideas) is the freedom of an individual to hold or consider a fact, viewpoint, or thought, independent of others' viewpoints. It is different from and not to be confused with the concept of freedom of expression
-
As a though-exercise we can all think what would happen in Mark's beloved home country (the US) with the person standing up in public stating:
"I support Al-Qaeda, I think they are right to attack this country!"
How would 'Freedom of Speech and Thought' be evaluated at that time?

One does not have to like justbitching’s posts but there appears to be no intent to deceive by pretending to be one of the current posters. I have several “people” in my who justbitching could be but it is not near as revolting as the scumbag forging current posters names to write filthy posts to attack someone with Farkas’ respected standing. For me, that is the real disgusting turn of events. It also follows the recent Communist MSZP directive.
I could not help noticing that yesterday; there were not many posts from these “people”.

@Viking
As a though-exercise we can all think what would happen in Mark's beloved home country (the US) with the person standing up in public stating:
"I support Al-Qaeda, I think they are right to attack this country!"
How would 'Freedom of Speech and Thought' be evaluated at that time?
--
This is another indication of your stupidity and scrambled mind. It actually happened. It was a university professor who said something similar to that. People did not like it and tried to fire him but they soon found out that the Bill of Rights protected him.

The funny thing about the ACLJew used the Bill of Rights to destroy all the roadblocks to the Jewish smut peddlers prevents them for shutting people up in America who question their “holocaust” or point out the horrible crimes of Stalin’s Jewish Communists. The same freedom of speech arguments that these Jewish layers used to defend their smut are the basis of preventing them from attacking the free speech of those who tell the truth about them.
Be careful what you wish for :-)

@ Viking;

You should have stopped when you said " I am not so good at spoken Hungarian, so I have a hard time...." and left it at that. But no, as usual, instead of asking for help, you go about it alone.

Have you not learnt your lesson? Bloody Hell, utilize your resources Man! Turn to your wife and say "Honey help me out with this, so I know how to respond". To hell with your wiki.

What the man is saying essentially is: "He is sick and tired, of how in his own home (Hungray) he can say nothing, has no rights; but, others have the freedom to say what they want about Hungary, it's people and it history with no consequence. Hungarians are being shit on, puked on and we are supposed to take it all with a smile on our face, for we have no defence in our own country."

But what I found more disturbing than the video, you not even taking the time, to find out why a person would feel the need, to abuse themselves; but, felt comfortable enough to comment on it.

Shame on you for that.

Shame on you for that.
justasking at January 24, 2010 8:59 AM
---
As I wrote, the details eluded me, but I think I got the message.
Obviously I did.
For what you have translated, I have heard the same things said (with obvious variations on details of course) by Swedes.
People saying what he is saying do not need to be Hungarians, but they normally live in a not so big village

It was a university professor who said something similar to that. People did not like it and tried to fire him but they soon found out that the Bill of Rights protected him
Mark at January 24, 2010 8:20 AM
---
Not that I think you will give a link to that case, but maybe some one else could back up Mark's statement.
The important is to what this alleged US Professor actually said.
Mark has a history of a bit of his own interpretations of what happened and it is always good to check the facts.

Joke of the day from our ever-deceitful Israel agent:
Mark has a history of a bit of his own interpretations of what happened and it is always good to check the facts.

Hi Mark
Gee!! Must get tiring continuously repeating to Lapp Lapp the facts, especially once you know his agenda as an agent.. He's only here to torment Hungarians.. They are vampires as Vona Gabor said many times during his speeches..

What dumdum actually said about the professor being fired was correct (linked) "Ward Churchill wrote an essay shortly after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks mentioning victims of the attacks and Nazi leader Adolf Eichmann." Ultimately he was fired for being a total jackass but any business has the right to fire people who reflect poorly on their company but because he was tenured the task was more difficult. It is a tricky like between rights of association and free speech.

So, as I suspected it was not similar to the hypothetical case I put up in my earlier post (January 24, 2010 6:52 AM):
-
Ward Churchill, former ethnic studies professor at the University of Colorado at Boulder, wrote an essay in September 2001 titled Some People Push Back: On the Justice of Roosting Chickens about the September 11, 2001 attacks, in which he argued that American foreign policies provoked the attacks. He described what he called the "technocratic corps at the very heart of America's global financial empire" in the World Trade Center as "little Eichmanns," i.e. as those who banally conduct their duties in the service of evil.
-
Link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Churchill_9/11_essay_controversy
-
This that US Foreign Policy 'caused' the 9/11 attacks is not even a controversial statement, but Ward Churchill seems to be a bit of a hoax himself.
In the UK the similar charges are done every week about Blair's (B Liar?) Foreign Policy caused the July Bombings
-
Still I would like to see any one in the US to stand up and state:
"I support Al-Qaeda, I think they are right to attack this country!"
How would 'Freedom of Speech and Thought' be evaluated at that time?
This is a much harder statement, could even be seen as (High) Treason etc.

FL,

"I will continue my film commemoratives thanks. Some will be dedicated to gentile, some to Jews, but they will all be from Hungary and they will be people who positively identified with Hungarian heritage."

What evidence do you have that Adolph Zukor positively identified with his Hungarian heritage?
In your Pesticide post you quote Zukor

"In Hungary there was little individual freedom of opportunity of rising in life....I could see nothing but darkness in Hungary for me."

criticisng the the Hungary he was born into. Harldy positive, is it? Okay, you write "He never forgot the land of his birth, and was never ashamed to let people know where he was from.". But what reason does anyone have to be ashamed of the country they are born in, especially in a nation of immigrants: his foreign birth was proof of his success in realising the American dream.

Okay, he employed Hungrians in the US, but that is simply a case of using his knowledge of Hungary to pick out the talent from what to everyone else was another bohunk. But what did he do to improve the situation for Hungarians in Hungary?

Hi Law,
It may be his intention to torment Hungarians but he only succeeds in entertaining Hungarians while exposing the disgusting, slimy methods these “people” use to attack those who shine the light on them. Viking and his ilk helped expose Israel, the brutal, genocidal, racist, terrorist state that Hungarians should keep at arms length. By exposing their mean and deceitful nature, they show the danger they present for Hungary.
Should we thank them for it before we show them the door?

Hi Mark
I agree in Karma, "You reap what you sow" and Viking
and his gang are in for a big surprise

Let us start with February 13 and see who will have a surprise...

Hi Law,
I expect good news for Hungarians after the elections. There is an interesting shifting of voter sympathy. Many older voters who voted for the Communist MSZP/SZDSZ coalition are disappointed in the Communists because they lied to them and did not deliver on their promises. Many of these voters are shifting to Fidesz because Fidesz is promising them what the Communists promised them but failed to deliver. These people will always vote for whoever promises them the most. It is no different in America.
At the same time many patriotic Fidesz voters are looking with suspicion on Fidesz because have not shown a clear commitment for an independent Hungary. They will probably vote for Jobbik. I expect Jobbik to get over 20% and beat the Communist MSZP. Others believe that a Jobbik victory is possible. Based on their program, the fine group of candidates and patriotic fervor of Jobbik volunteers, nothing would surprise me.
Nothing is impossible my friend.

patriotic fervor of Jobbik volunteers
Mark at January 24, 2010 5:21 PM
---
Yes, the more a Quisling the more 'fervor'...
-
It must be wonderful gift to sit in the US and have the pulse on the Hungarian electorate. Quite impressing.

@ Viking;

I guess it sure beats sitting in Hungary and not having a clue. That's pathetic.

I guess it sure beats sitting in Hungary and not having a clue
justasking at January 24, 2010 6:13 PM
---
How would you know?
According to Ricsi, Mark is either here or is coming soon. The two cannot miss the big Patriotic Hungarian Day this year celebrated on Saturday February 13th.
As being such big Hungarian Patriots you will probably find both of them on the following picture:
-
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Becsület_napja_1997-02-15.jpg

@ Viking;

I wasn't talking about Mark.

Although I have to admit, that picture that you posted, pales in comparison to your family reunion video that you posted on u-tube and attached to your name.

It is not nice for a Jew such as you Viking who is ashamed to admit that he is a Jew to criticize others. It is even less becoming when you call others Nazi when your country Israel is one of planet’s worst racist, murderous, genocidal Nazi states. I see why you are calling yourself a Swede that you are not. The only Nazi here is you and your ilk.
Go and forge some more disgusting posts pretending to be justasking, Law or Mark. That is what Lendvai of Communist MSZP wants you to do.

your family reunion video that you posted on u-tube and attached to your name
justasking at January 24, 2010 6:35 PM
---
Yes, it is my Swedish Summer house, Falu Red with with white details. That is how we Swedes originally lived, before all Hungarians moved to us.
I do understand you feel more afraid of a few Swedes indulging in traditional activities celebrating Midsummer in a typical National setting, than the 'Finest of the Finest' in their nice black uniforms.
You do have a thing with men in black uniforms, right?

@ Viking;

Now why would I want to begrudge a "few Swedes" indulging in traditional activities, celebrated in Midsummer? I have to admit, getting shitfaced and sleeping with any available person in the woods, I find a strange "traditional activity", then again, who am I too judge!

As for how your fellow Swedes living like that before Hungarians "moved to us". I would think you would been more appreciative, even grateful that somebody saw a glimmer of hope in all that mess and thought that there might be some hope for you yet.

As for me having a "thing" for men in black uniforms, not really. I'm not the one who was cruising the web, looking for a picture of a bunch of guys to post now was I?

Dear Sophist,

When Zukor spoke of the situation in Hungary, he was being very matter of fact. Being "matter of fact" is realism and doesn't mean he didn't love Hungary or respect where he was from.

My dad said much about the Hungary of the 1930's that reflected Zukor's concerns. There used to be two colors of work permit "books", sort of like an internal employment "passport"; they had to be stamped by the authorities and your employer. They had one color for "agricultural workers", a euphenism for village peasant, and another color for industrial workers. Changing was very difficult, but he managed somehow. Still, his old village employer called the police on him and had him brought to court. You needed permission from both your employer and the local police authorities to change jobs or to move from the village to somewhere else. Changing trade or occupation ves very difficult.

Society was run for the benefit of large landowners back then, who needed peons to work their fields. It wasn't in their economic interest to allow the labor or residential mobility that more economically afvanced societies take for granted.

Zukor was a 15 year old kid when he decided that he was powerless to change his life on his terms, or to change the feudal structure of the nation, so he "voted with his feet", as did almost a million Hungarians in the 19th and early 20th century.

Dear Mark,

Because we are approaching an election along with reports of 200 "internet commandos", I am concerned about disruption on this website. Claims of falsified usernames have increased, especially coming from jobbik supporters. I have expressed to Erik my concerns about this, as I think there is already enough contention around here, without more being stirred up by provocateurs. I also mentioned that dirty tricks can cut both ways. People on the right can resort to this just as readily as those on the left.

Given that in the past justasking has expressed sympathy with the jobbik group, it was odd to me that "justbitching" would praise jobbik people but mock and insult her. It's my suspicion that "justbitching" is a left provacateur.

Dear Farkas Lászlo--Your efforts are in vain,long have Erik and his side kick,Zoltán,promised to do something about security and yet nothing materialises. I still remember and appreciate your efforts on my behalf,but my feelings are that Erik the amateur actually thinks he gains kudo's points by allowing this--he does not realise he is used and come the 'hate speech'laws our enemies are so eager to implement,this site will be the first to be investigated or even closed.He should implement some controls,together with a warning system as so often mentioned by Vandorlo.Thanks again and take care.

Should'nt we focus again on the issue.

"Law to penaliza holocaust denial". I personally
think the discussion should be wider.

Freedom of speech ..until where? Should there be borders or limits and if yes where?
What is with still alive victims or survivors?
Who or what protects them and their dignity?

Does a Holocaust survivor has a right to be protected from deniers slander?

questons like these and more should be on the
agenda here....or?

Judas--nice attempt at knocking me off the recent comments board!

Farkas Laszlo---see a typical example,came out from nowhere to deliberately divert us from answering.

Dear Lászlo,
I am not overly concerned with the "internet commandos" being able to do any real damage to Jobbik or Fidesz. People got a lot smarter these past years and they no longer fall for Communists lies. I see them trying their tricks on many open lists and people either ignore them or call them on being agent provocateurs.
The forgeries are one of those things that only stupid Communists would try because just as they backfired here, they backfire on other lists also. They are very easy to spot. Actually, people on the right could not “resort to this just as readily as those on the left.” It would not be natural. You could not do it and neither could I.
The same goes for filthy language. They can get away with it without raising too much ire because people expect them to do these things. If we tried it, it would be noticed and condemned. We cannot use their methods but we can point out when they are deceitful and when they use filth to attack those they do not like. I found that a lot more effective. The only road we can take is the high road. Any other approach would do us more harm than good.
Zsuzsa is right, I tend to get preachy :-)

@Mark: "The only road we can take is the high road." FFS!

Hello Mark,

If there really is an orchestrated attempt sponsored by a political party to do this, then unfortunately we can expect more of it in the future. I am glad of the stand that I took, because those who might have been faking identities around here, or those who intend to, are put on notice.

If anybody feels that they have been dealt with this way, by all means speak out. Let's be particularly wary of very confrontational posts from new usernames, or those that are out of character for long existing ones.

FL,

"doesn't mean he didn't love Hungary or respect where he was from."

So what does? How did he show this love? How did he express this respect?

For example Jenő Wigner, another emigrant Hungarian Jew, "visited his home several times, lectured to students and professors, published in Hungarian, became an Honoury member of the Eötvös Society, and also a memeber of the Hungarian Academy of Sciences" - The Voice of the Martians, pg 244.

To extrapolate John Kennedy, it is not enough to ask what Hungary did for Zukor - though that, on your evidence, is hardly edifying; I ask what Zukor did for Hungary.

Hi Lászlo,
Absolutely! This is a must read:
A vörös ifjúgárdista neve ma bérblogger
http://www.magyarhirlap.hu/velemeny/a_voros_ifjugardista_neve_ma_berblogger.html

Judas--nice attempt at knocking me off the recent comments board!
Farkas Laszlo---see a typical example,came out from nowhere to deliberately divert us from answering.
Ricsi at January 25, 2010 4:37 PM
---
This is getting more and more ridiculous
We are all here on the same terms, grow up or find another playground
Judas is an old alias giving a reasonable suggestion, just to be attacked by the resident self-confessed Neo-Nazis, for just giving a reasonable suggestion
It is called 'Free Speech', or how you 'Neo-Nazi' knows it more 'Free Hate'

There are no Nazis in Hungary. If you want to see Nazis, real mean, genocidal, racist Nazis, you should go home to Nazi Israel.

There are no Nazis in Hungary
Mark at January 25, 2010 5:06 PM
---
Mark recommend this page to really underline his statement:
-
http://dayofhonour.hu/
-

@ judas;

You can not "protect" one group of people and deny others that same protection.

Bayer Zsolt: Vérdíj
http://www.magyarhirlap.hu/velemeny/verdij.html
És nyugodtan mondjuk ki, írjuk le ezredszer is: ha a náci bűnökre nincsen bocsánat, akkor a kommunista bűnökre sincs. Az nem lehetséges, hogy egyrészt mindig elmondják minekünk, hogy felejtsük már el végre a múltat, és ne hánytorgassuk, mi történt, majd ugyanazok elmondják azt is, hogy van a múltnak egy, egyetlenegy olyan része, amely nem felejthető, s amelyre folyton emlékezni kell. S akik ezt teszik, ezt mondják, azok egyben azt is mondják, azt sugallják, hogy emberiség elleni bűnt csak a zsidók ellen lehetséges elkövetni.

Dear Sophist,

Zukor did what many other Hungarians did who left Hungary, he financially helped out his relatives who stayed behind, who numbered almost 40 people! That's quite a number for someone who grew up as an orphan.

He did indeed hire quite a number of Hungarians in an industry that paid good wages. He may have been more a businessman than philanthropist by nature. In a TIME magazine article in the 1920;s, he proudly conveys his Hungarian heritage. (Hungarians were not a particularly prestigious ethnic group then.)

You could just as well ask why millions of other Hungarian expats didn't do a little more than they did. If you feel he should have done more, that's your business, but then when you think about it, we ALL could be doing more!

Questions of this nature aren't going to stop me from commemorating Hungarian genius in the film industry. I do this for the current and coming generation as well, hoping that they could be inspired to achievment and to not give in to setbacks and disappointments. That would be a good lesson for us all.

Hello again Sophist,

One other thing that ocurred to me was that the advent of WW2 and the following communist regime were a big reason why Zukor didn't show more phailanthropy towards Hungary in his old age. He might not have wanted to help a Hungary that was leaning to Hitler. Also the Communist world in the age of Rakosi and Kadar liked to maintain the public posture that it was perfectly self-sufficient and didn't need handouts from American millionaires. Had he attempted to distribute largesse, the govt would have prohibited large sums from being given directly, but would have wanted custody of the funds. I wouldn't have given a dime to Rakosi, a sentiment I'm sure is shared by others here.

By the time Hungary's communist leaders were willing to accept donations and gifts like money and the famous "200 photocopiers" from millionaire Soros, Zukor was long dead.

Just asking@ You see, I make one little comment and these bastards come crawling out of the shit pit to try to counter me! We will win because we have nothing to hide from !!!! :)

@ Ricsi;

Please keep slangs to a minimum, Wolfies having a hard time keeping up.

Besides, what comes around goes around. Sometimes not as quickly as we would like; but, it does none the less.

Just asking@slang? I thought it was factual :)Wolfie was thrown a bone and now like all good dogs he is in la-la land.

@ Ricsi;

Slang for when you said shit pit:))

Hi everyone,

What's up with these numerous posts telling us all what a great article, great discussion, that he will bookmark it and to keep up the good work? (I've seldom seen such happy and satisfied posters around here!) I notice that the usernames keep changing, and also that often old expired threads and discussions are revived with such posts. (Many of these are threads where I have made significant posting contributions.) Another odd feature is that the person frequently tells us that he is having computer difficulties in reading, acessing or navigating this website. This has been going on for weeks as you know. What's up?

Sometimes not as quickly as we would like; but, it does none the less.
justasking at January 25, 2010 10:23 PM
---
Yes, but you can always email each other to where the 'lost' post is, as you seem to be so good friends.
Your ability to pick friends among holocaust deniers and open-spoken racists tells us a lot about which vacuum 'Hungarians' must live in Canada.
You claim to be new (6 months or so) to this site, but you are definitely not new to the extreme right-wing and their StormFront-reps.
As the 'Good and Well-Integrated' Canadian you like to present yourself as, in similar tone as Mark as the 'Good and Well-Integrated' US-citizen he claims to be, it is just one question that always pops up:
- How do you hide your resentment for the 10s of thousand Canadian and US military staff that were killed and injured while fighting the Nazis in WWII?
Do you, as a Good Citizen of Your Country, celebrate them every year, even if they were on the same side as the 'Murderous Jews' from the Soviet-union?
Even if these soldiers helped, in your screwed logic, to bring on the Soviet occupation of Hungary?

@ Viking;

I don't know what you have been drinking tonight and I really don't care.

I do ask however, that you leave me the hell out of whatever you are trying to suck me into.

You go back to the top of this thread, and reread, in your pigeon English, what I have writen about this proposed law and why.

We are all entitled to our own opinion, for it is a God given right. Mark, Law and Ricsi can deny and say whatever the Hell they want about whomever they want. Lord knows you do.

So, before you start jumping around and frothing at the mouth like the little bottom feeder that we both know you are. Step back and see what you post and tell me how is it any different from what they post.

I will throw my hat behind anybody that defends Hungary from sons-of-bitches like yourself, no matter what side of the political arena they play on.

As for your question about honouring the Military men and women that died for their countries. I do as a matter of fact, every November 11. I care not one whit, what country they represented, the fact that they died for it, is enough for me to say hats off.

Now, ask me about the men that sent their Military personal on these missions, why and their motives behind it? I will give you a completely different answer.

So go sniffing for a fight elsewhere, you bloody looser!

I will throw my hat behind anybody that defends Hungary from sons-of-bitches like yourself, no matter what side of the political arena they play on
justasking at January 26, 2010 1:02 AM
----
Shows that you:
a) Believe I am against Hungary.
I am not and you will never be able to show that either, then it never happened.
When it come to who of the 2 of us that plays a more positive role for Hungary today, it is clearly myself.
.
b) You have no integrity and faith in the people actually living in Hungary if you think that Hungary need any of these imported Neo-Nazis, but that is the kernel of your problem.
---
I do understand now why you tried to run a 'Cécile Tormay' on me in another thread, but I will come back on that.
The difference between you and Mark is that he is more outspoken on the details.

@Viking
Hungary needs no Nazis, not the old German kind or your Zionazi kind.
Just say no to Nazis and Zionazis!

FL,

"...commemorating Hungarian genius in the film industry. I do this for the current and coming generation as well, hoping that they could be inspired to achievment and to not give in to setbacks and disappointments."

There are two issues here that interest me 1) the "Hungarian" identity of Jews, etc. 2) the fact that these successes occurred outside Hungary.

1) To antisemitic Hungarians (and in my experience that is the majority) Jews are not Hungarian and Jewish Hungarian success is not Hungarian success (see the recent reaction ot Imre Kertész's Nobel prize). Accordingly, I think you need to stress the Hungarian identity of the people you choose to celebrate, for example Wigner was a beneficiary of Hungary's excellent pre-WWII secondary school system - and identifies himself as such, whereas Zukor's Hungarian identity seems nothing more than the accident of his place of birth. Why celebrate those who don't celebrate Hungary?

FL,

2) I've been teaching in Hungarian secondary schools for ten years now, and it is already obvious that a disproportionate number of my best students are already in higher education/work outside of Hungary. I even have a number of students who at fifteen have decided to concentrate on studying English as a means of getting out of Hungary. In celebrating Hungarian success outside of Hungary, you're reinforcing their idea that the English speaking world offers them far more opportunity than their homeland does. Continued emigration of its brightest and its best damages Hungary's prospects. Why not celebrate the achievements of those that stayed?

Sophist: “1) To antisemitic Hungarians (and in my experience that is the majority) Jews are not Hungarian and Jewish Hungarian success is not Hungarian success (see the recent reaction ot Imre Kertész's Nobel prize).”

Hungarians are not “antisemitic”. There is strong resentment and fear of Jews (not Semites) because of horrors experienced from Jews such as Kun, Rakosi, Gero, Apro, Bauer and the like. It has nothing to do with race but everything with negative experiences with Jews. These Jews are not even Semites.
There is nothing for Hungarians to celebrate about Kertész's Nobel prize. He hates Hungarians and indirectly said it very recently. What is there to celebrate for Hungarians?
Personally, I think that the literature, peace and some of the other Nobel prizes are worth only as much as the money that goes with them because they are not awarded based on merit but in response to pressure, a lot of pressure.
Being born in Hungary does not make one Hungarian; on the contrary, some of our most celebrated Hungarians were not born in Hungary and claimed by others also as their own.
Nobody is fighting over Kertész :-)

Daer Sophist

If anybody wants to leave Hungary for better opportunities, or to disavow the Hungarianess of Jews born in Hungary, then it won't be due to my film commemoratives.

I believe I am uncovering a piece of history that others may be quite interested in. I also believe in resorting to national pride in ways that hopefully conduce to constructive effort on the part of those young enough to mold their life options. What people end up doing for Hungary once they have become successful is up to them. Even if they don't do as much as you think they ought have, it's no reason not to remember them.

That being said, I will go on doing these film bios thanks. They have been very popular and well received. Of all people, I didn't expect you to be the one to raise concerns about Zukor's Hungarianess. But like I once told you before Sophist: you can't please everybody!

Farkas László. People with only hate in their heart will destroy anything and everything including themselves.
I applaud your tireless efforts to try and show
the world that Hungarians irrespective of denomination have proved themselves to be luminaries wherever they have decided to settle.
We want to improve the economic situation here because we do not want to lose our talented young people to other countries better able to reward
them for their services.
You are a beacon to those that truly believe Hungary and its people can achieve success.

Kedves Sandor,

I always appreciate your expressions of support! The three film commemoratives I have done so far have been appreciated by a variety of people, even those on opposite ideological sides and who normally fight like cats and dogs! One reason I do these articles, among others, is to help lighten the often charged atmosphere around here!

An examination of the lives of Bela Lugosi, Michael Curtiz and Adolph Zukor tells us not only a lot about film history but Hungarian history as well. In spite of the fact that we have been, and continue to export people, some may choose to make their mark at home, while those that find sucess abroad will be inspired to help the country in some way.

I like to appeal to national pride in a constructive way. (The Olympic games do that, with their national teams, flags and anthem playing.) I know all too well the negative aspects. We need a vitamin injection of positive pride.

To our young peope who may dream of starting a business, or to those studying film or engaged in it's production, people like Zukor make a great role model.

I wonder how the numerous zionazis on this site ‘know’ there was a 'holocaust'? Even the custodians of the hoax are giving up on propping it up. So is that why our very own zionazis in Hungary want laws to protect the hoax. Read below:

Brett Popplewell interviews Professor Robert Jan Van Pelt, major 'holocaust' historian:

BP: By allowing nature to take over the site, do we run the risk of allowing humanity to forget what happened and set the stage for future questioning of the Holocaust?

RJVP: Ninety-nine per cent of what we know we do not actually have the physical evidence to prove . . . it has become part of our inherited knowledge.

Toronto Star, December 27, 2009
http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/article/742965--a-case-for-letting-nature-take-back-auschwitz

Hungary needs no Nazis, not the old German kind or your Zionazi kind.
Just say no to Nazis and Zionazis!
Mark at January 26, 2010 7:52 AM
---
Someting to agree to - That is why we say no to the Jobbik-Nazis also.
Bye, bye.

This "marksupporter" is even more of a stupid a**hole then Mark. His quote is really out of context.

If you don't want to read the (very interesting) article, here are some of the mainpoints:

"Ninety-nine per cent of what we know we do not actually have the physical evidence to prove . . . it has become part of our inherited knowledge.

I don't think that the Holocaust is an exceptional case in that sense. We in the future – remembering the Holocaust – will operate in the same way that we remember most things from the past. We will know about it from literature and eyewitness testimony. . . . We are very successful in remembering the past in that manner. That's how we know that Cesar was killed on the Ides of March."

And then it goes on:
°To put the holocaust in some separate category and to demand that it be there – to demand that we have more material evidence – is actually us somehow giving in to the Holocaust deniers by providing some sort of special evidence."

So the gist of the article is exactly the opposite of what the jobonazis want us to believe ...

FL,

"We need a vitamin injection of positive pride."

Agreed but we need to have pride in Hungarian institutions and in Hungarian values, not just in individual Hungarians, let alone just those Hungarians who were successful outside of Hungary.

I don't know where you're based, but it is difficult to get through everyday life in Hungary without hearing this kind of negativity:

Discussing immigration from pre-Trianon Hungary, I remarked that more ethnic Hungarians migrate elsewhere than into Hungary. I was told by my Hungarian boss "only an idiot would migrate to Hungary". To which I replied, "I did".

Sandor's remark "We want to improve the economic situation here because we do not want to lose our talented young people to other countries better able to reward them for their services" has become a chicken and egg question. The number of pensioners is growing: the economic situation can't be improved without those talented young people staying and working

I think a lot of talent is leaving not because Hungary doesn't offer them opportunity for a decent life, but because Anglo-saxon values such as economic opportunity are globally presented as the only decent life. One question you could ask yourself, is what have the filmmakers you choose to praise done to advance Hungarian values in the global media space?

The hatred that is perpetuated on this site is unbelievable. Mr F. Laszlo gives visitors to this site an imaginative and crtical look at what Hungary and Hungarians are, and have been.
It is a sad fact that one or two disgruntled, disillusioned people, operating from a deluded and ill-informed standpoint can manipulate debate
to such an extent that one might believe they are in the majority. This is a consequence of modern technology and, although we cannot halt progress every effort should be made to moderate its excesses.
Farkas Lásló would always be welcome wherever he happened to turn up. Why? Because he is honest, not self-seeking, and, more often than not- speaks the truth. A man we should all seek to emulate.

@Sophist:

One of the main problems of emigration by Hungarians seems to me, that these people and their descendants will be lost to Hungary, they'll only return as visitors - if at all ...

To give you an example: Someone from my wife's family is a university professor in the USA, his oldest son at 16 has his own car, the youngest is into baseball, doesn't speak Hungarian at all.

What would they say if father wanted to return to Hungary ?

marksupporter

...how the numerous zionists on this site know there was a holocaust....

for me the answer is very simply.I have a family member as witness.he survived ausschwitz,longville
thiel,salt -mines where he manufactured for the german todd operation and dachau .32 of his closest family perished in ausschwitz.He can tell all about it.He did not always knew where he was
or what he did .This we figured only recently out for him..But this is how we know......
and this is how we will remember..and this is why we will
do everything that this will not happen again.

When I was a kid, I knew a Dutch Presbyterian minister.As a young man, he had been forced to serve in the Wermacht in WWII.He and a friend escaped, but were recaptured and imprisoned in a concentration camp.He was an eye witness to the holocaust and bore many scars himself...physically and emotionally.

The basis for the free expression doctrine in Germany is
provided by Article 5 of the German Basic Law:
(1) Everyone has the right to freely express and
disseminate his opinion in speech, writing, and
pictures and to freely inform himself from generally
accessible sources. Freedom of the press and freedomof reporting by means of broadcasts and films are
guaranteed. There will be no censorship.
(2) These rights are subject to limitations in the
provisions of general statutes, in statutory provisions
for the protection of the youth, and in the right to
personal honor.
(3) Art and science, research and teaching are free.
The freedom of teaching does not release from
allegiance to the constitution.
The article expressly imposes limitations on free expression in
section 2. Besides these limitations, the Basic Law contains other
provisions that may serve to restrict freedom of speech
Several provisions of the German Penal Code specifically target
hate speech. For example, section 130 criminalizes incitement to
hatred or violence against parts of the population and attacks on the
human dignity and also prohibits distribution and publication of
hate messages, including through broadcast. Section 130 also
specifically penalizes Holocaust denial, i.e., the approval, denial and
minimization of the acts of Nazis committed during World War II.
In 1997, Germany passed the Multimedia Law which is meant
to keep illegal material out of cyberspace.
so much for germany

thanks cinead...

it should be Cinaed ....:)

Wolfi,

"What would they say if father wanted to return to Hungary?"

I actually have a 16yo student from Canada, she has just returned with her father and mother: I'll ask her. Ironically enough given what I'am trying to argue in my thread with FL, they are here on a form of economic migration. The father who was born of Hungarian parents in Canada was recently made redundant over there, and took the opportunity to come and teach over here.

Your point about language though is spot on, it is tremendously difficult to raise a Hungarian speaking child in a non-majority Hungarian culture. (hat tip to politics.hu readers who are trying to do so). It is tremendously easy (for an English speaker) to raise an English speaking child anywhere in the world, because of the massive media support that English has - another prod at FL's support of Hollywood Hungarians. Hungarian media in Hungary is on its last legs, my children can watch Bob the Builder dubbed in Hungarian, but there are no children's programs being made now that represent Hungarian culture. How is it is Germany?

@ judas;

I believe you in when you say, you have family member (s), who experienced and some fatally, the horrors that occured during WWII. I too, have a Catholic Polish friend, who lost 2 of her Uncles in Aushwitz. Contrary to some peoples belief, I do not doubt the Holocaust having occured, not even for a second.

I do not mean to be insensitive, I do however question, how one would think that passing a Law to deny an event in History, will keep it from happening again, when clearly it has happened over and over since.

I am all for people honouring and remembering their History, Heritage, etc, for in my opinion, that is a must. That being said, I do not expect others to share in my passion, it is enough that "my people" are doing it.

justasking,i do not believe penalizing holocaust
denial will somehow prevent tragedies like this butHolocaust denial is not offensive solely to Jews and members of other groups that were victims of Nazi crimes. It is offensive to all who are informed about the facts of the Holocaust. But there is an inherent antisemitism in Holocaust denial, although it may not necessarily be obvious or immediately apparent. This is because Holocaust denial does not always encourage hostility to Jews in an explicit way, in comparison to cruder forms of antisemitism which allege, for example, that Jews are engaged in a plot to control global financial institutions, the media or the world; that Jews are to blame for communism or capitalism; that Jews slaughter Christian children for use in their rituals; or that Jews poison wells. In contrast, to state that the Holocaust did not happen, or that 500,000 rather than 6 million Jews died in the Holocaust, may not, on the surface, appear to be an expression of hatred of Jews.(1)

However, Holocaust denial has an implicit intent to engender hatred. Its insidious antisemitism is evident in its clear implication that the Holocaust is an invention of Jews or their agents. Jews are thus depicted as manipulative and powerful conspirators who have fabricated myths of their own suffering for their own ends. According to the Holocaust deniers, by forging evidence and mounting a massive propaganda effort, the Jews have established their lies as ‘truth’ and reaped enormous rewards from doing so: for example, in making financial claims on Germany and acquiring international support for Israel.

Holocaust denial is antisemitic not only because of the negative image of the Jew it implicitly depicts, but also because of its direct impact upon the feelings of Jews: it produces immeasurable offence and anger, and can cause those who are directly targeted by the material to feel fearful and intimidated.

Holocaust denial can be a particularly insidious form of antisemitism precisely because it often tries to disguise itself as something quite different: as genuine scholarly debate (in the pages, for example, of the innocuous-sounding Journal for Historical Review). Holocaust deniers often refer to themselves as ‘revisionists’, in an attempt to claim legitimacy for their activities.

@ Viking;

How exactly, do you believe that you are a "positive" role model for Hungary and please provide me with some examples? Because you see, truth be told, I'm hard pressed to see you being a positive anything, let alone role model.

You have no idea, how I feel or think for that matter on anything, so please don't pretend that you do. As for the "differences" between Mark and I, that's called varying degress of the Political Spectrum on the Right. I assume you know that is possible?

As for the "run a Cecile Tormay on me", I gather that was your attempt to sound hip. Well, it didn't work.

I have yet to read any of this womans' work, whom I have heard about for years. As a matter of fact, I have saved a book of hers that Farkas posted, and shall read if I ever have time to myself again.

Judas: “and this is how we will remember..and this is why we will
do everything that this will not happen again.”

Many Hungarians feel the same way about the horrors of Communist terror of Kun, Rakosi, Gero, Apro, Bauer and other Jews perpetrated on them. Hungarians ask rightly how bad Communist terror would have been if not for the sadistic Jews who took so much pleasure in torturing people, in most cases people who have done nothing to deserve it.

The problem with the “holocaust” denial law proposed by the Communist MSZP is that it would also make it a crime to associate Communist crimes with Jews. For me, that is holocaust, Hungarian holocaust denial.

If you can read Hungarian, you should read the entire article or at least this much:

Bayer Zsolt: Vérdíj
http://www.magyarhirlap.hu/velemeny/verdij.html
Az nem lehetséges, hogy egyrészt mindig elmondják minekünk, hogy felejtsük már el végre a múltat, és ne hánytorgassuk, mi történt, majd ugyanazok elmondják azt is, hogy van a múltnak egy, egyetlenegy olyan része, amely nem felejthető, s amelyre folyton emlékezni kell. S akik ezt teszik, ezt mondják, azok egyben azt is mondják, azt sugallják, hogy emberiség elleni bűnt csak a zsidók ellen lehetséges elkövetni.

and for me penalizing holocaust denial is only one side of the coin, the other is education.

@ judas;

Denial or belittling of anybodies history is offensive to that "group" of people and can too be looked upon as anti. For would you not agree, when one group of people are being elevated over others, could that not infact work against the original intent of the Law and create more "resentment"?

Me saying to you, "get over it, it happened , it's the past, who cares anymore" is just as offensive to YOU, as somebody saying to ME about Trianon, "get over it, it happened, it's the past, who cares anymore".

So, should we than instead, go about passing Laws that penalizes ANY denial or questioning of "Historical Truths" no matter what the ethnicity, religion etc?

Wow, Wolfie beat "Marksupporter" to death with his own article! That was downright embarrassing!

Also embarrassing was the dumbass photo of the skinheads all wearing identical black outfits with the Michael Jackson zippers, etc... Not that there is anything wrong with being gay -- but I'm starting to think I understand the whole gay-erotic aspect to the militia-uniform-fetish thing...

Mark and Ricsi where are the pictures of you all posing in uniform? You know you like pacing back and forth in front of the mirror, snapping the riding crop, saying "yes SIR!" and so forth, am I right. Besides the all important sense-of-belonging, it really IS all about the uniform isn't it?

Metaphorically speaking, that is...

In my personal opinion, I don't think holocaust denial should be illegal.I do believe in the principle of free speech.I do accept, however, that it is perhaps easy for me to say that as it wasn't something directly relevant to my life or that of my family's.I can also understand that some countries never want to experience anything like that again and that they will instead try to nip it in the bud with the justification that 'if it looks like a duck...'I do think there is space for hate speech laws, but that it is something that has to be done very carefully.I also think that the right to free speech is often declared by those who are saying things that are perhaps better left unsaid or otherwise expressed, especially when it has the potential to inflame pre-existing tensions into violence or open conflict.So with all that said, history revinsionism, holocaust denial and political ideals are all things that should not be restricted, except where they seek to restrict the equal rights and freedoms of other groups or individuals in the community.

@Bystander
We do not use Palestinian mothers and their children for target practice as your brave IDF soldiers do.
We do not kill and torture people, your people do.
We do not demolish other people’s homes to make room for Nazi Israeli settlers, your people do.
We do not traffic in human organs, your people do.

justasking,
i do not think that this in one way or annother
"elevates" one people over annother.The victims of the holocaust were not only jews,but gays,
socialists ,communists,etc.
And the holocaust as a method to eradicate
unwanted,so called inferior people,was unique.
Nothing in history compared to this.
We owe the victims and survivors a minimum of decency and respect.Thats why on one hand their
should be penalities for denial(even if this is not a satisfactory solution) and their should be education.
Now as an israeli i am personally in favour of putting the emphasis in education on the fact
that despite the horrors of the holocaust a nation got up again on its feet and continued
(with a lot of shortcomings yes and a lot of pain)
This is for me the educational value of the holocaust.This might be different for other nations.This everyone has to figure out for themselves.Germany is for me a good example in this respect.Hungary though has still to come to grips with its role in this catastrophy.

How about Kun, Rakosi, Gero, Apro, Bauer and the other Jews who tortured and murdered tens of thousands of Hungarians?
Should the children in Israeli schools be required to be educated about them?

Mark do you read hungarian newspapers?

I read Magyar Hirlap and Magyar Nemzet online and Jobbik site. Sometimes, I read nol also. Why?

Mark what is your point?

Bela kun had protetant mother and was born in
transsylvania ,rakosi left judaismn completely
and was born in vojvodina.Both in the ausro hungarian empire.Both were Hungarians first and foremost.

Judas,

Don't confuse Mark with "facts", he's not accustomed to dealing with them.

E.g., Mark says
"We do not kill and torture people, your people do."

Ummm, Mark, you are an American citizen, correct? Then aren't "your people" guilty of killing and torturing people? Our current president has *admitted* this fact. I guess that makes you as guilty as the "dirty Jews" huh?

I would continuing trying to poke holes in your logic but there's nothing to poke at anymore besides empty air and residual seething hate, probably result of a number of childhood beatings... Why not share some of *those* stories? Surely they'd be more entertaining than the broken record you've been so far.

First, it sounds very much like “judas” and “Bystander” is one. Not very honest.
Second, are you telling us Kun and Rakosi were not Jews? This is a political discussion list. Not comedy central.

Mark,
1)To realx u. I am not "Bystander"
2)The question is not if they were jews (even though strictly spoken Kun with a protestant mother does not qualify according to halacha and
rakosi renounced judaism early in life),they were
austro Hungarians.

3)Again what do you want to say with it ?

I am saying that if you talk about Hungarian Arrow Cross killing Jews we need to talk about Jewish Communist killing Hungarians. It would be best if Jews would mourn their own dead and Hungarians would mourn their own dead without expecting others to show more concern for your dead relatives than you are willing to show for our dead relatives.
Hungarians do not wish to harm anyone but they no longer want a very small minority to rule over them. How would you like if a 1% minority were ruling your country?

@judas;

I would expect you not to agree, that one group is being elevated over another, because you are in the group being elevated.

As for the Holocaust being unique in history, well yes and no. Attempts to "eradicate" groups of people for one reason or another, has occured on various scales, throughout history. The difference being, WWII had more news coverage.

Suggesting that one event should be remembered and protected over others due to the "amount of deaths or pain suffered" to me a lame and tasteless argument. Why not just have a Rictor Scale type set up, have various events in history rated and people vote on it. The ones with the highest score gets the protection. That way everybody has a say in what is to remembered and educated on a Global level.

We own ALL victims and survivors a minimum of decency and respect, not just some.

A small targeted group of people from the Holocaust, not all, received compensation for their pain and suffering in the form of land. And yes, that is really the one thing I see truely unique in history, conserning the Holocaust. I agree, Jews got back on their feet; but, another batch of victomers were created to appease this group. Lets not forget that.

So all in all, I hear what you are saying; but, not enough to convince me that a Law forbidding denial of ANY EVENT IN HISTORY, let alone one, warrants consideration.

Sorry... victims NOT victoms

This "marksupporter" is even more of a stupid a**hole then Mark. His quote is really out of context

This ‘wolfi’ the ex-STASI thinks he has said something. But consider, you fat old ex-STASI fag: The quote was not mine. It was Van Pelt’s. And he said precisely this: ‘Ninety-nine per cent of what we know we do not actually have the physical evidence to prove . . . it has become part of our inherited knowledge’. If you can read any more efficiently than you write … No, hardly likely. So let me explain: In the article I cited, Van Pelt is being asked about his tenet that Auschwitz should be left to rot. That is, he has given up on it as ‘proof’ of the ‘holocaust’; he recommends letting the place rot rather than defending the full exposure of the fact that it never was a death camp. Listen, fatso: your STASI thug tactics are stale. JOBBIK has arrived. So pull your evil meat-head in. (You are not welcome in Germany, are you, you STASI toenail puller? Go to Israel. You, STASI effluent, are not welcome in Hungary.)

GO Mark! Szebb Jövőt!

@marksupporter the wellknown Nazi:

The quote that you shortened to give it a different meaning:

°To put the holocaust in some separate category and to demand that it be there – to demand that we have more material evidence – is actually us somehow giving in to the Holocaust deniers by providing some sort of special evidence."

Do you get it: We and Mr Van Pelt are not giving in to the holocaust deniers!

Let others decide who is stupid ...

@Mark,

FYI I don't know who "Judas" is but he's not ME. Nice try... Is Ricsi your ventriloquist?

Oh crap! Wolfi has done it again and tied me into a jiu-jitsu pretzel with my own article!!

Curses!

But I stand by my words when I said 'This "marksupporter" is even more of a stupid a**hole then Mark.'

Hello Sophist,

The two commemoritives I have done on politics.hu became open forums, where it turns out that a lot of Hunagarian film was discussed with youtube links. Here I am particularly indebted to Law for his enthusaism and ecouragement. Thanks to him, the Lugosi commemorative featured a lot of vintage Hungarian film links and stars. Unfortunately,I can't do this on Pesticide.hu, where for some reason you can't insert hyperlinks.

The things you have seen and heard for ten years I have heard all my life, since I was a toddler! I deliberately omitted mention of Curtiz and Zukor being Jewish, because I want to build Hungarian pride withour division. You are not making this easier for me. Honestly I expected some of the people who get denounced daily as nazis and anti semites around here to quibble with me over Zukors "Hungarianess", but no, those people have been understanding and gracious. It disturbs me that it was you who opened this can of worms.

I think it would be a good thing for you to expose your pupils to my commemoratives, as well as to your responses to them and see what they say.

(cont)

(cont)

As far as values go, I have been aware of the conflict between what prevails in the world and what native Hungarian resources are capable of. It goes on in many countries. Either you become xenophobic or you adapt. I just want for us to become adaptable. Zukor did that; he could have remained in the upholstery shop!

I have a good memory, and I rmember that you faulted me once for being too nice and polite! Now it's the film commemoratives and Zukors ethnicity and values.

We can't go on. I have invested a fair amount of time responding to you, but my time, energies and patience are of course limited.

I have a number of other film pieces to do, which this community has expressed an interest in. You and I can't go through this wash cycle every time, questioning who is a real Hungarian, and what they did for Hungary and about Anglo Saxon values, or me being too nice or whatever is bugging you. You are free to make constructive contributons of your own.

How exactly, do you believe that you are a "positive" role model for Hungary and please provide me with some examples? Because you see, truth be told, I'm hard pressed to see you being a positive anything, let alone role model
justasking at January 26, 2010 4:17 PM
----
I did not use the expression 'role model'.
I used the expression:
"When it come to who of the 2 of us that plays a more positive role for Hungary today, it is clearly myself"
(Viking at January 26, 2010 5:27 AM)
-
'Playing a role' is not equal to 'role model', but the role I was referring to is that I, like Sophist just to name another person well-known here, have moved to Hungary, we pay taxes here. We contribute to the local Hungarian economy.
I do not cost my fellow Hungarian citizens anything, then I make my money outside Hungary and import them into Hungary.
Many people, basically all Hungarians that have understood what I do, think I am stupid. I should not import my money into Hungary, I should keep them outside of Hungary (off-shore type of).
I do not like that. I think you should pay tax where you live and in that way improve the overall situation a little bit here in Hungary.
The main point is though I am in Hungary and I tell people I meet over the world when I am on a business trip that I have moved from Sweden to Hungary. I have voted with my feet, that is the most powerful vote.
Sitting abroad and complaining on your 'native' country is not helping, come here and help instead.

@ Viking;

Yes, that is one way a person can contribute to Hungary and Hungarians, in a direct manner/approach . Another way a person can contribute, would an indirect manner/approach, (which I do). One way, is to bring yearly tourist dollars into Hungary(which I do), raise my children to appreciate their Heratige (which I do) as well by teaching them the Hungarian language, about Hungarian culture etc (which I do).
Moving a few kms away (Sweden to Hungary) is no big deal. Similar to me moving from one end of the Province to the other, not really a big deal. Moving to a different Continent, that becomes a big deal and a completely different ball game. Especially, if the business that you are in, demands you be on this side of the pond, opposed to "traveling all over the World for business".
So, to throw out a blanket statement "come here and help instead" really, is juvenile and not very well thoughtout, which I sure you realized once you hit the "submit" button.
So, lets sum up what we have so far. 1) We both contribute to Hungary financially, directly and indirectly, recognizing each on different monitary levels. 2) I raise my children to RESPECT and HONOUR the country of their birth as well as the country of their Heritage via language and culture, while you yourself admitted to encouraging them to call themselves "European" and not country (s) specific.
Now again, how exactly did you arrive at your conclusion that you play a more positve role to Hungary than I?

@justasking - moving from one country to another cannot be described as "no big deal". I have moved 8 times, and realised that even moving to the next country (or province) involves you uprooting your family, friends, social network and your career. This change is more so, when you move to a country with a different language, customs, standard of living, and quality of life (Viking moved here long before Hungary's EU accession). His statement can hardly be considered as juvenile.
One major difference between the levels of contribution is that Viking's contribution is direct and measurable on many fronts, while yours is indirect & subjective. I often wonder how to measure this because part of my contribution is similar, only it is to Hungarian students.
I've always encouraged Hungarians to return and be here because their contribution is immediate and affects the country directly. Granted, not all of it may be positive (if the imports are Nazi-like, or if they have few useful skills), but at least it reverses Hungary's population decline.

@ George;

Your a sight for sore eyes, it's been awhile.

Now, my point was, that Viking made an off the cuff remark, or at least I took it that way, suggesting that I just drop everything and move to Hungary. Just as you said, up rooting a family, taking into account social networks, careers etc, is hardly an easy task. So in essence, you and I are saying the same thing. For the record, I said moving from one end of the Province to the other and not out of Province.

Anyhow, I have, carefully considered relocating and must weight this against factors, that would effect others lives irrevocably. Because, I have no intention of elaborating further on this position, suffice it to say, the comment of "juvenile" is appropriate in this instance.

Justasking: “As for the Holocaust being unique in history, well yes and no. Attempts to "eradicate" groups of people for one reason or another, has occurred on various scales, throughout history.”

So said a mouthful. The Armenian Genocide preceded the Jewish Genocide (I acknowledge that there was a Jewish Genocide but refuse to call it a holocaust because that is just another Zionazi trick to elevate Jewish lives above other lives) and it is significant that the best and greatest ally Turkey has in Armenian Genocide denial is Israel and numerous Jewish organizations and commentators. So when these jokers scream “holocaust denier”, I can only laugh at them because they are the worst deniers. Justice demands that we call them on that.

Typical! The above January 26, 2010 10:46 PM was not my post. Sleazebags. As for the flabby old STASI-wolfie and jiu-jitsu capacity: Giggle.

And no, you simple-minded toenail pulling STASI effluent. I do not ‘get it’ that ‘we and Mr Van Pelt are not giving in to the holocaust deniers’. Van Pelt, at least, is a man of some intellect. You are not, by a long, long shot. So try to understand what he is telling you: Lay off your holocaust already. It is amply disclosed as a fraud. Just go on ‘knowing’, but give up trying to force it down our throats. Doing that only makes us puke.
Anyway, does it strike you holocaust liars that being unable to prove that gargantuan atrocities happened in the living memory of many is itself proof that they did not happen? Fools. We are talking of a near-contemporary period of history. Enjoy your holocaust among yourselves, as Van Pelt advises. But shut up on the subject in public.

@marksuppository:

This is what Mr Van Pelt wrote:

"To put the holocaust in some separate category and to demand that it be there – to demand that we have more material evidence – is actually us somehow giving in to the Holocaust deniers by providing some sort of special evidence."

With you jobo typical limited command of the English language you probably don't understand what that means - so maybe get some help from someone ...

@justwhining:

Considering what lawless wrote about you it's probably better to stay away from you ...

I guess from a pure language point of view I can see that Mark has a point...I do think that Jews are not the only race on earth to have been victimised and subjected to an attempt to exterminate them.
I do think that what happened to the Jews and other groups during the war could be called a holocaust, just the same as what happened to the Armenians or those murdered by Stalinist regimes, or those who have starved or died of treatable diseases as a result of greed and a lack of compassion and ethics of affluent countries. So...'mass murder', 'ethnic cleansing', 'genocide', 'holocaust'.To me, they just show us how capable we are of forgetting the value of human life, while the difference is semantic.
What bothers me is the idea that retribution will lead to anything other than ongoing hatred and future bloodshed.
I do believe in the concept of evil; I see it as the choice that people make to abandon their humanity and see others as objects to be exploited or abused.I don't think any race or political group is immune from this, so I think we would all be better off by not trying to characterise entire sections of the population as evil by virtue of their race, religion or personal values.

@ Marksupporter
I would not worry too much about the forgeries of these scumbags. They are unable to hold their end up in a debate so they must try these things, the poor things :-)
BTW, thank you for your support.

@Cináed:

There are some hate spewing people on this site - if it weren't for them we could talk about the future, but the guys only want to talk about the past...

"If anybody wants to leave Hungary for better opportunities, or to disavow the Hungarianess of Jews born in Hungary, then it won't be due to my film commemoratives."
-
FL...well said.To be honest, I don't know a lot of the films or stars you talk about, but the fact that you take such effort to write should be commended.I like that while so many others are trying to close off to the world, you show them that it is possible to be a 'global citizen' without giving up a sense of your cultural heritage.I don't think that celebrating Hungarians who have left necessarily undermines efforts of those who are trying to keep young Hungarians in the country.Ultimately, I believe that staying or returning to Hungary has to be a choice and not something forced on people.I also know from my own experience that going abroad made me a better citizen of my own country.So for my part, go ahead with your film commemorations, if nothing else, they are a break from the slanging that seems to dominate the forum most of the time.

oops. forgot to take the extra tag off my name.

@ Mark: Thank God for you.

Hi justasking! You are a doll, a clever one.

@STASI toenail puller 'wolfie': What this means, you linguistically challenged git:

- To put the holocaust in some separate category and to demand that it be there – to demand that we have more material evidence – is actually us somehow giving in to the Holocaust deniers by providing some sort of special evidence -

is that Van Pelt is urging you to wake up to the fact that you have nothing at all with which you can defend your lies. So just pretend that you choose not to engage. So far so good. But then f *** off with your holohoax laws.

Your stupidity and evil wolfie knows no bounds. This thread is called “Socialist party seeks law to penalize Holocaust denial” which shows that you Jews want to keep talking about the past, always and forever and lives off the guilt you try to instill in others for whatever misfortunes you justly or unjustly claim.
The problem with bringing up your side of the past is that others have just as much right to insist that we either lay it all to rest or talk about all of it. You Jew Nazis are so determined to keep shoving your suffering in everybody’s face that you would go as low as assist the Turkish government in Armenian Holocaust denial. You are the worst, most hypocritical, disgusting holocaust deniers on this planet. Live with it.

@ Wolfie;

It is my turn to say to you, please translate. Who is Lawless? What was said about me that you feel the need to stay away?

If for any reason, I owe this person a heartfelt Thank-you!

@ Cinaed;

Hello!

@ Farkas Laci;

I enjoy the background information that you provide on Hungarians in Hollywood and I appreciate your effort. I just ask that you don't stop anytime soon. To Hell with what some people may think.

Thank you Zsuzsa!

I've had pause to reflect on things, and to me Hollywood is a metaphor for distinction and fame before not just a national but world stage. To do this, one need not be in film, and need not be in Hollywood either! It's being distinguished before the world that I hope is inspiring to young Hungarians, no matter what field they go into or where they live. I yearn to see achievement in the world of science, business and the arts that will gain for our youth world recognition. That one such odyessy of fame and accomplishment could have originated in a village such as Ricse, in Borsod county is inspiring to me!

Have you noticed that any ethnic group becomes very proud when one of their own achieves Hollywood fame? I've seen many ethnic groups react this way.

I am also proud of what our domestic Hungarian film industry has done in the past, given that the economies of scale and market were small and the available capital was very limited. It has been a great pleasure to provide youtube links and discussion to classic Hungarian film as well. I am very greatful and encouraged by the support from so many people!

@ Farkas;

Your right, I get giddy when I see that a movie was shot in Hungary or if I see a Hungarian name come up in the credits of a TV show etc.

For what it's worth, I have bookmarked almost all the movies that you have posted from u-tube. I just need to find a solid week where I can disappear with a hugh bowl of popcorn and a bottle of wine and watch it all.

Take care Laci

Z

Farkas Laszlo,
Sophist, of course is right. There is a major problem with your take on Zukor. The problem is not what you wrote about him, but what you left out.
Had he been more concerned with his “patriotic duty” than with making money he surely would have stayed in Hungary. His life would have been far worse. He would have ended up in Auschwitz, where, as an old man, he would have been sent to the gas chamber immediately.
The man was a Jew. For whatever reason, you have neglected to mention this fact. Hungarians often follow the same pattern. Nobel prize winners are always Hungarians, never Jews. Jews; on the other hand, are not really accepted by Hungarians as Hungarians. You, yourself don’t like them either. Of course, you have no obligation to like them, but you cannot have it both ways.
Your friends, “dear Mark”, “dear Law” and the others hate Jews. They make this clear every time they post anything around here. Mark was right when he confronted you with the choice: “you are either with us or you are against us.” You are either against Mark, Ricsi, and their supporters or you are with Jobbik against the Jews. Ultimately, you must choose. Not choosing is also a choice.
It is the choice of the weak, the cowards and the morally ambivalent, the collaborators. Accept and praise Zukor for what he was; otherwise, you have no right to use his name for your purposes, however noble you might think those purposes are.
What about the next Zukor?
Thanks for the memories.

I raise my children to RESPECT and HONOUR the country of their birth as well as the country of their Heritage via language and culture, while you yourself admitted to encouraging them to call themselves "European" and not country (s) specific
justasking at January 27, 2010 1:00 AM
---
I believe my children learn Hungarian and get their dose of Hungarian culture by living in Hungary as they were born here.
As not being Hungarian myself it would be a bit strange that I would teach them these Hungarian values, right?
What I meant with being 'European' is that you do not think that you are above other people, like how you are thinking about the Slovaks.
I think it is more important to learn the children to respect human values than that they belong to this or that group of people.
I give a few 'ethnic Hungarians' from Romania and the Ukraine the opportunity to still stay there by giving them work in Hungary. This is then positive for people like yourself that want to revert Trianon, that there exists some 'ethnic Hungarins' still in those Trianon-areas.
With the inclusion of Romania into the EU-Schengen zone the situation for those people has improved. For the Ukrainians I employ, it is still a lot of paper work and a lot of bureaucracy on both side of the border.
Here that the Ukraine would join the EU would improve the situation, another thing you are against.
Your pipe-dream on a revision of Trianon will just delay improvements in this area of pre-Trianon Hungary.

justasking,

Dear Zsuzsa,

Thank you for sticking up – if not for me, but – for my right to free speech.

You are really a swell gal-pal.

I really feel very close to you now, especially since we have such amazingly similar backgrounds, personalities, circumstances and views.

We should work together, don’t you think?!?!?!
You keep on just asking and I will keep on just bitching…

You know, I really feel terrible for misjudging Farkas Laci for a jew-lover. He complained immediately and vigorously and I lost a lot of sleep over this injustice. Finally, I figured out the best way to make up to him for my transgression. I will re-post a corrected version of the offending item.

I’m going to make csirke-paprikasch for my hubbie now.

Hope to hear from you soon. Szebb Jövöt ott (vagy itt).

Zsuzsika, the real Clueless in Canada, a.k.a.:

Corrected Version:
Law (passionate truth-seeker, a real HOT paprika with a big heart and a bald head),
Mark (Bernie – brave magyar patriot),
Ricsi (brilliant Hungarian strategist),
Pávaszem (Visitor – Hungarian jennieous),
Bobs Country Bumpkin (a Hungarian Gentleman and schoolar),
Beju (grocer to the stars, jewish wife, owner of kuruc.info),
In’cest Moi (Cheese eating surrender monkey),
Viking (communist Jew, palestinian hollo kauszt denier),
Wolfi (jewish nazi communist fürdös-kurva),
Olga (jewish communist muszka kurva),
Vandorlo (obnuckscious smartass jew commie),
Farkas Laszlo (naïve jew-xxxxx-detester[corrected], native son of Attila the Hun),
Erik (zsido berenc, holokaust monger, Neo Liberal censorist),
Does anyone have a good Hungarian recipe? My SOB husband keeps telling me that I cook goulash much too often. He even said the other day that my pie was as half baked as my ideas! What a nerve! His family was f***ing polar bears when Hungarians taught the ain’t chent Greeks how to write.
Did you know that Homérosz originally wrote in Hungarian? You can still read his stuff. My father had the book under the broken leg of the commodore.
I don’t understand why the gypsies cannot go back az anyjuk picsájába, where they came from. Also the jews should go back to the garden of eden. You have no idea how frustrating it is to be Clueless in Canada.
If you wanna know how I feel just click on my handle below and watch the video all the way thru.
Szebb jovot:
Zsuzsika, the real

Christ, here we go again!

Justbitching is not me, no matter what he writes or how he writes it.

@ Farkas Laci;

I thought, that you said, that you contacted Erik about this guy? Is there any news? I've really had enough.

@justbitching:

Thank you for your uplifting comments, I really appreciate them - and they were so Real/funny - you made my day!

wolfi,

Thanks. Glad to be of help.
What's really funny is that Law also liked my comments. (See above).

See you soon at the Stasi Cafe.
I'll be at the jewish-nazi corner, holding a Mein Koran, wrapped in a Haaretz.

The real

Justasking,

I have received your complaint.
Be rest assured, nobody up here thought for a second that justbitching was you. After all, you are only asking, not bitching. We can tell the difference.
I see you want these comments censored now. This seems to be contradicting your previous desires.
What EXACTLY would you like me to do with the offender justbitching?
Maybe burn him at the stake? Or grill him as a steak for dinner?
Please let me know ASAP.
I.N.R.I.
P.S. - please lighten up on the jewish stuff. As you may remember, I was originally a jew myself. As you know, once a jew is always a jew, even if he/she gets baptized later. To be a bona-fide gentile one needs Jobbik certified baptism certificates of at least three grandparents.
I trust that you qualify.
For further info click on my name below.

For all you wanna-be censors out there,

Here is Erik's deletion policy (latest published version):

"Andy: Short answer is that the only comments that get zapped are commercial spam and things that cross the line into specific, open incitement to violence ("let's go kill them...") Bottom line for me is that you don't censor political speech, and though it may not seem so to you, even most of this horrid race-baiting is political speech... if you doubt that, just subsitutute "right-wing white christian" for any of the groups being trashed. If the authorities in Europe weren't actively trying to criminalize such speech - and if the supressing of such speech didn't seem to me the best way of driving people to actual violence - I might take a different approach, but here we are."

Erik at August 5, 2009 1:29 PM
From Politics.hu – ‘Hindu guru unlocks key to uniting divided Hungary

Of course, this policy may have change since last August. Commercial spam seems to be exempted now.

The real:

@ Christ;

No My Lord, not censored, just through your guiding light, please let him realize that some might assume that I am behind his comments. I ask that you encourage him to stop trying to impersonate others. Amen.

Oh, and Christ, yes I do forgive you for wrongly accusing me of saying "Jewish stuff"

PS: What you say about once a Jew...always a Jew, I don't know if judas agrees with you, in fact, he believe the direct opposite. I'm sure he'd listen to you if you approached him nicely.

@justbitching;

Ya know, I'm just not feeling a connection. That being said, I will help out all I can with cooking tips.

Now remember, after you have sauteed the onions, do not forget to pull the pan off the heat, when adding your ground paprika. If you don't, you'll end up with a bitter tasting dish.

@ Viking;

I really do think that you are loosing your marbles. When did I start having an issue with the Ukraine? And since when did I start considering myself above the Slovaks?

Are you drinking again? Drugs? Alzheimers's? Mad Cow?

Justasking,

My dear daughter, you are confusing me.
Which judas do you speak of?
The one you had a verbal cat-fight with, further up this thread? Or the one who betrayed me in Jerusalem? Are both of these jews?
Are you asking this judas of yours to judge me? Again? Are you asking me to ask this judas of yours (nicely!?!) to opine on my comments?
Are you well?
Are you a christian? Or maybe a pagan magyar?
I believe prayers are in order.

@justwhining;

You just wrote:

"Alzheimers's? Mad Cow?"

Is that how you describe yourself ? Look in the mirror!

This is getting funnier and funnier!

justasking,

I am really saddened by your lack of feeling towards me.
Am I being too bitchy???

As to the cooking tip:
If I understand you correctly, before I do what you recommend, I should thoroughly ground my hotpaprika, correct?
I can see that this may end up producing something really bitter...

@ Christ;

But Father, why are you saying "verbal cat fight", I was only voicing my opinion. Will a Law soon be introduced, to penalize opinions, when talking to an Israeli/Jew?

Forgive me Father, for I have sinned, it has been awhile since my last confession and I am having nastly thoughts about a fellow poster here know as Wolfie. Would it be possible for you to just reach down and squish him with your thumb? No? Fine, so how many " Our Fathers and Hail Mary's" do I need to say?

@justwhining:

You don't like your own words - applied to yourself ?

Maybe you should look back at all your postings - if there were a god, he/she would be mad at you, maybe ?

Should I add more quotes from you or your buddies "fuckoff" lawless or "string them up" murky ?

@ Wolfi;

What! What! Did you say something?

@justbitching;

That was actually funny. Just try to keep your "hot paprika" away from the flame.

Cin.,

"you show them that it is possible to be a 'global citizen' without giving up a sense of your cultural heritage"

But it may involve you contradicting your cultural heritage in order to become a global citzen.

I'm obviously going get some knickers in twists, because as a bona fide non-magyar I going to propose some Hungarian Values vs some Anglo-Saxon Values. Hungarians value their locales and their families much more than anglo-saxons do. This is reflected in their apalling (from an anglo-saxon perspective) low labour mobility. Anglo-saxons obviously value their purchasing power and career opportunities more. Posts to this site remind me every day how even second and third generation Hungarians wish their families had never had to leave. It's easy for someone to wiz off around the world, if they don't really value the place they came from and the people they left behind.

@justbitching aka "Christ"

Oh boy, from the sense of "humor" (quotes intentional) I'm guessing 'Bernie' is back!

What a barrel of laughs THAT guy was!! So is 'Bernie'/'Christ' the same as Mark? I seem to recall that's what 'justbitching' said.

The whole confusion is so un-funny and un-interesting. YAAAAAWN.

I'll keep checking back and hope the boring schizos found something better to do (like take their medication).

But I did find Sophist's theory interesting -- more of that, less of the kindergarten impersonation antics please!

Dear Zsuzsa,

I have contacted Erik, but you may want to express your concerns to him as well. About just insults, he is laissez faire, but about impersonation, I'm not sure where he stands. This is made tricky by the election season coming up and about alleged reports of "internet commandos" hired by a political party for the very purpose of impersonation. I do feel that anytime anyone feels they have been impersonated, they should disavow the post and contact Erik.

your "Son of Attilla the Hun"

Laci

I really do think that you are loosing your marbles. When did I start having an issue with the Ukraine? And since when did I start considering myself above the Slovaks?
justasking at January 27, 2010 10:12 PM
---
You do have an issue with the EU and we are one happy family over here and can travel without borders, like you could do before to the US.
That is where the Ukraine comes in with Trianon-revision.
With the Slovaks your first debate here was about that Trianon was bad and Hungarians were first in this part of Europe and therefore before the Slavs and therefore Slovakia actually is not a real country.
I do not know why I have to remind you about your own arguments?
Maybe I just have a thing for you?

Hungarians value their locales and their families much more than anglo-saxons do. This is reflected in their apalling (from an anglo-saxon perspective) low labour mobility. Anglo-saxons obviously value their purchasing power and career opportunities more. Posts to this site remind me every day how even second and third generation Hungarians wish their families had never had to leave. It's easy for someone to wiz off around the world, if they don't really value the place they came from and the people they left behind.
Sophist at January 27, 2010 11:03 PM
---
You could be right there.
Maybe it has to do with that here we are in a land-locked area, and most of Western Europe is at the water. In old days water united and land divided.
UK has a big seafarer history, same with the Dutch, French, Germans, Spanish, Italians. They were all colonial powers and travel was therefore more necessary and therefore both an interest and a push from the powers at be to get out administrators. Or they were all descendants of Vikings, of course.
-
Cont

Cont
If I look at the traditional way old people were treated in Sweden from Viking-time and forward, the survival of the group/team/clan was always the most important. When you could not work anymore, you were thrown out. If you could not feed yourself, you were left to die.
To prevent the old people from eating from the still strong members of the group, the old people were taken to the forest and left by their own, or they were thrown from a high cliff. In the last centuries they were put on the 'undantaget' which translates into a place where the old people have to manage themselves until they die fast.
All this can seem terrible (my Hungarian friends react negative to it when I tell them) but it was in a time when it was very hard to survive in Northern Europe and all efforts were directed to let the strong survive.
The old people accepted this, then it was a cultural thing.
In Sweden the last 50-75 years it has been a strong effort to give elderly help via the State, old people's home, helpers that come home a few hours every week etc. All this in contrast to that the family takes care of the old people.
-
If we now speak about Hungary today, my own experience is similar to Sophist's
Our family is a 3 generation family, we have the parents, who are still alive, of my wife and me here, so with our children we are quite a bunch of people in the house
Personally that is the thing I have learnt by moving to Hungary, but it runs in my wife's family since generations to do it

Dear Maquis,

I knew when I did the Zukor tribute that questions about his Jewishness would come up.

Since childhood, I have experienced my fathers rages over Jews, which got worse and worse as he got older. It has traumatised me. The problem with disavowing anti semitism in Hungary is that it often means disavowing you loved ones.

You needn't tell me Zukor would have wound up in Auschwitz, as I don't need the history lesson, but just keep saying that around here and you will hear quite a bit from some of the others! Don't hand me ultimatums, you go argue with the people about jews, that's your privilege. I don't have the time and energy for that, and those are arguments where nobody convinces the other party.

I didn't mean to say I hate jews, "justbiching" is the one who taunts people as jew lovers, why don't you go argue with him?

To me jews are people, I don't love them, don't hate them. Some are good, soe bad. the stuff I read on this website about them is like an old broken record to me. It's not a brawl I want to get in the middle of.

I feel I did honor to Zukor's memory. If you don't mind, I will continue to commemorate various Hungarians in my own way. I don't accept provocations from the left or the right, and nobody tells me how to spend my time around here.

@ Viking;

Actually, I remember that argument, how could I not, it lasted for hours. I also remember saying that the Magyars were the first in the Carpathian Basin after you brought up the Great Migration.

You know my feelings about Trianon, I do not believe that the Slavs should have received any part of Hungary, arguing squatters rights. I have never said that I feel that I am above them or anybody else for that matter. In future, I would appreciate you keeping your assumptions about me, to yourself.

@justasking
Do not worry about the forgeries. No one is going to fall for them. These forgeries and their sliming define them better than anyone else could.

Viking,

"Maybe it has to do with that here we are in a land-locked area"

Continental Europe also has a history of massive migrations. I think that low labour mobility is allied to another difference between Hungarian and Anglo-saxon values: the relative strength of the parent-child relationship, compared to the spouse relationship. I know that probably the most important reason why I am living in Hungary is my wife's commitment to her parents. She finds the idea of an old people's home abhorrant.

I know that probably the most important reason why I am living in Hungary is my wife's commitment to her parents. She finds the idea of an old people's home abhorrant.
Sophist at January 28, 2010 8:42 AM
---
We have the same wife?
When I found my wife to be, my idea was always that we should move to a 3rd country to be a bit more on an equal footing. Actually Australia was on my mind, then I had some work there at the time and saw an opening to open up shop there and that both the individual and business developing 'climate' was friendly there.
But, in the end she refused to leave her parents and we got stuck her.
-
Another perspective on this would be that many Hungarians during the last 100 of years had to flee and that of course is another type of forced emigration than to leave to get a better future.
Especially if you succeed, the latter reason creates for more 'happy' emigrants.
To have been forced more without a choice out of your country I would think creates a more negative feeling about the immigration and less 'happy' emigrants, even if they succeed where ever they ended up.
This would then be true checking labour migration, like the many workers moving north after WWII and Turks the last 30 years following them.
The Hungarians I have met in Sweden who came for different reasons, some Jews fleeing WWII, some from -56, some afterwards, some in the last 10 years, seems rather happy to live in Sweden and are not planning to move back.
I am not, either.

Viking...probably better you didn't go to Australia.Not that I'm saying you wouldn't be welcome, but I can tell you for sure that my wife hates the climate there.Europeans in general tend to melt in our heat.
Unless you were moving to Tasmania, it's hot pretty much everywhere.Everyone knows that Tasmanians have two heads though.Actually, the place to move for Europeans is New Zealand.Immigration laws are more open, the climate is cooler, NZ itself is way more European in style than Australia and the further south you go, the more surly the people get...
(ok to all, this is a post made in jest...not to be taken as a rant)

Dear Viking,

The issues you raise about immigration/emigration in your last post, not only weigh on me but on the nation as well. The issue has raised it's ugly head on this thread, as well as others in the past.

Hungary has been exporting people since the days of Kossuth, and that was a long time ago! This trend is going to continue, whether we like it or not. Several generations of my family have had members leave, as did many members of their villages. In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the exodus was a mass wave, driven by a lack of opportunity in a very class rigid feudal socioeconomic order. Later in the last century, it was the wars and disctaorships that drove people on. Since 1989, it's due to our relative lack of economic development compared to some other nations that continues the trend. Without a great increase in wealth and productivity, this drain can't be reversed.

It's a good point you raise about leaving that is forced creating a rift of unhappiness and resentment. I see expressions of this in real life as well as on this website.

(cont)

(cont)

The national temperament is always so self-referential and melancholic even under the best of conditions. What so many don't realize is that such is the fate of any lesser developed nation, not just Hungary. Other nations, like India, Mexico, Nigeria, Pakistan, Haiti, Phillipines, Turkey have been spewing emmigrants for generations and will continue doing so.

Mexicans for example, smile more than Hungarians, while at the same time are resigned to the reality that hordes of their countrymen have and will continue to flee north into gringoland. What makes them different from some of the crap I read on this and other threads as well as from real life people, is that Mexicans do not question the values, patriotism or "Mexicaness" of those who have left. Another example is the Dominican Republic, which incidentally produces more of it's share of superstar ballplayers. Whenever one of these players comes back home, the counry goes into an ecstatic fit of pride and homecoming welcome.

(cont)

(cont)

I wasn't born yesterday, and I anticipated even before doing my first film tribute to Lugosi in October that several issues would automatically come into contention:

1)That these people left in the first place, which automatically calls their "Hungarianess" and "Hungarian values" into question with some.

2)That the ones profiled who were Jews, are not "real Hungarians".

3)The #2 will lead to toxic charges and endless posting about being a "jew lover" etc. (One poster denounced me as a jew lover and jew hater out of both sides of his mouth. I've also been ordered to take sides!)

4)That any further fim profiles by me will just lead to a repetition of numbers 1,2 and 3 above.

I began my film tributes on this website, politics.hu. I didn't think that inappropriate, given that Hungary's turbulent 20th century political history was often revealed in these bios. Lugosi and Curtiz, were political refugees from the Horthy regime. (Lugosi never dared return to Hungary) Zukor was an economic refugee, but also had to distance himself from any philanthropic and business dealings with his homeland due to both fascist and communist regimes.

9Cont)

A lot of Hungarians are crying in their cornflakes, goulash, and palinka. It is a national pastime.
Meanwhile nothing changes and reforms are still a country mile away.
Hungary is calling out for an educated, cultured,
determined leader. It will never get one.Why? Hungarians prefer to fight among themselves whilst
"Rome burns"! The flames from that fire are getting very hot indeed.
Farkas Laszlo. Please continue to remain positive and let us always hope you will post your incisive
and meaningful contributions. We certainly need them around this neck of the woods.

(cont)

When it came to the Zukor tribute, Erik D'Amato felt pesticde.hu would be a better place than this site. I accepted that, but given the inevitable response to such articles, I have to ask, perhaps rhetorically, just what site do they belong on, politcs or pesticide.hu? It can't be about just culture, since such a subject opens so many other can of worms with us. I leave this matter to your own individaul reflection.

I have made these last few posts with a purpose of redefining the debate, something I need to do if I am going to be doing any more film tributes. I personally dislike those who made this a referendum on jew loving/hating, "Hungarianess", side taking, "values" etc. I challenge these posters to make a constructive contribution to our community, something they will fail to do.

As for Erik, this is perhaps a revealing experience. You can remove the subject to pesticide.hu, but it will keep coming back to politics.hu, along with it's usual controversies and polarisations.

Kedves SVT,

I don't believe I've encountered your posting before, but I want to say thanks for your support.

Farkas László. It is only those people that have a pre-determined agenda that would find fault with your dedications to successful Hungarians - for, that is what they are, irrespective of counter-claims by mindless morons.
Anything that shows a modicum of imagination or,
entrepeneurial endeavor will be criticised by
the brutal bravados that think "hate" can win over the hearts and minds of people.
I still maintain you are important to the survival
of this and sister sites in respect of appealing to a wider audience.
My only advice to you is to ignore the detractors and keep on providing us with your entertaining and interesting contributions - whichever site you eventually agree upon.

I thank you very much Csendes!

The posters you mention are a symptom of a deeper problem, and that is why I address the issue. It's a part of who we are and part of our historical development.

I have been involved here for a longer time than the detractors, who strike me as "hit and run" posters. I often feel like a geologist, who reminds people of the fault lines underneath our feet. You can build a lovely mansion, but if it on top of a tectonic fault, you will have earthquakes.

Hungarians are like that. We don't sit on top of a "geologic" fault so much as a fault fracture created by history, politics and economics.

Mark, Help!

Thank you for supporting my free speech rights (see above).
I am devastated to see how easily justasking gave up on these sacred Hungarian rights.
I am also troubled by Mr. Farkas Laszlo’s reluctance to stand up for real Hungarians. Instead, he keeps writing these glowing articles about Neo Liberal Hollywood Jews, without even mentioning the fact that they were Christ-killers and directly responsible for all Red Terror atrocities in Hungary, Russia and Cambodia.
I think you were correct to call him out on that. Is he with us or is he against us?
By the way, I really don’t understand why he got involved in this fight in the first place. He could have just stayed above it all, and sat on his well earned laurels as a moderate Hungarian (we all know there is no such animal, don’t we?).
But nooooo! He had to pick up the grenade, get down in the mud with the rest of us pigs. Now his reputation is damaged on both sides. He wants to silence me first.
I hope you will be with me in this fight. Remember, it was him who ran to Erik and asked him to ban our beloved Bernie from the site. He actually succeeded, Bernie somehow disappeared. I fear for his safety. Communist jew Mossad agents could have kidnapped him, or worse. Maybe they circumcised him!!! What a nightmare!!!
I miss Bernie, beju and the real Hotpaprika.
Mr. Farkas behaved like a teacher trying to reprimand an insolent pupil. Maybe we should just call him ‘Tanár Úr’ or just simply ‘bácsi’?
Jobbik jovot:
The real:

So it's official...

"Justbitching" = "Bernie"

The return of the Secaucus One...

What a comedy act, boy my knees hurt from the slapping!

So... he claims Bernie was "banned"... how bout a repeat performance? If not on grounds of Impersonation, then how about just un-funny-ness?

It's so quiet tonight - is this a sign we might get back to normal discussion ?

Sorry I missed the original links, but where can I find FL's film/videos? Sorry if I'm being a little lazy... my eyes hurt from scanning these threads up and down...

Would like to see those!

One can appreciate Truman saying that he never gave anyone hell, he told them the truth and to some of them it was hell. It is the same way with these people who would lecture Hungarians about tolerance while target shooting Palestinian mothers and their children. To them, putting the light on them is hate but in reality, these heartless murderers personify hate, ugly hate.

putting the light on them is hate but in reality, these heartless murderers personify hate, ugly hate.
Mark at January 29, 2010 8:41 AM
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So when will Jobbik support the idea that Europe should negotiate directly with Hamas then, something that would put direct pressure on the Israeli Government.
But maybe your hate-mongering is just for internal use in Hungary to advance an internal agenda and you actually do not give a shit about the plight of the Palestinians?
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Your hate-mongering also never do any difference between the Government of the Jewish State of Israel, Israeli citizens living there and Jews that do not support the formation of the Jewish State of Israel
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Also you have declared earlier that, in difference from some Jews, you support the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel, so who are you then to complain on what they do?
The creation of a Jewish State is built on exclusivity that Jews are to get special treatment in the Jewish State and that type of racism do you support anyway.
So who is a racist and who is a supporter of racism?

@Soph: "this is the outfit that visited Bp…" That is not the outfit we were discussing. Your Kikes came to copulate with the Iványi Gábor, Németh Sándor http://www.hit.hu type crowd. Another Israeli delegation blows in every other day anyway. Did you know they have their own immigration and customs at Ferihegy? They could bring in an entire IDF division and 'our government' wouldn't even know. The Gringos can't even do that in Hungary. As for Knesset members being common criminals, have you heard of Avigdor Lieberman's rap sheet? Bajnai just took it up the ass by him BTW http://tr.im/MUEu pardon me while I puke... 'Link you to the relevant warrants?' Are you inciting me to hack into Interpol computers? Tsk, tsk, tsk… That is not good, Soph... Me: "The sole purpose of these songs and dances is to make the outrage palatable and to create the illusion of impartiality" You: "You're losing me here: what impartiality?" They pretend there is no double standard when there is.

@Soph, more: Name one commie official that got what Göring, Bormann or Dönitz got. Or Szálasi for that matter. What happened to Péter Gábor again? He hasn't even lost his government pension for Pete's sake which was only twenty times the pittance his victims' get until they freeze or starve. Same people same deal at Yale pretending that Arabs and Jews are treated or protected equally when they are obviously not. "are you suggesting Yale is refusing to publish antisemitic cartoons as well?" No, Soph, Yale would never ever do THAT… Very funny. Hate speech laws are crypto-censorship plain and simple. And we know who needs censorship and why, don't we?