If I find out who snitched, so help me I'll...

This is the funniest thing I have read this year - I literally laughed out loud and just got funny looks from my colleagues. What a wonderful little tale!

Well, if we Germans attack the Czechs at the same time (like Adolf did in '38) we might really get Trianon AND Versailles negated at the same time ...

I'll have to talk to my Schwab friends - we haven't had a good Blitzkrieg for so long now ...

And Haider's people might have a go at the hated Slovenians ...

What a merry outlook for the new Year!

Slota "slate loose" looks as if he has improsoned himself in his own lunatic asylum.
The MSZP has invaded Hungary and reduced it to rubble. Economically speaking, that is.
What planes is Slota talking about? And too many bridges. This hair-brained twit is a bridge too far!
The Margit Bridge project (still not completed) is said to have cost twice as much as the original quote suggested. And has taken twice as long to complete than was originally expected.
PS.Slota is pointing a finger toward his greying hairline saying: my mind is made up, I've made up my mind, that is to say, the voices in my head are so loud I cannot hear myself think..next question..the soviets are coming,fish for lunch,
where's my shirt?

This is what happens when your Mother is also your sister.

justasking. I'm sure you would know coming from the same sort of family?
Are you sure you won't take a gamble?

Zoltan,
and did you know that Jan Slota had even have some flights in a jet plane last year? He was probabably training to lead a "counter-attack" against Hungary by himself you know. You should probably add there this information next time.

Me, on the other hand, read here somewhere that Hungarians should keep "their tanks fuelled and ready to roll" in case something happens down to Hungary. No need to worry hovewer, Slovakia was excluded this time.

Why won't you rather post something about the insults which Hungarians MEPs directed on the address of Slovak candidate on European commissioner yesterday? Those were very hypocritical and dirty attacks, especially from the country contemplated of visa imposition from the side of Canada. And underlined by preceeding deranged request of Hungarian MEP to suspend Slovakia's EU membership.. Jobbik simpleton has only forgotten to put his clumsy uniform on like on his first day - it's a Hungarian national dress after all - like he had said before. It would surely add him more credibility.

So you see, we all have our own extremists. But I suppose such information wouldn't be so appealing for your readers as your periodical reports of Slota's exhibitions.

Positive.

If I find out who snitched, so help me I'll...
bobscountrybunker at January 19, 2010 11:18 AM
---
Ah, you mean the plan to celebrate the election victory with a 'Victory Parade' on April 12, with the New Csendőrség all mounted on White Horses (to honour the Admiral) in procession over all the bridges to 'the other side of Danube' (aka 'Slovakia' by slimy foreigners) and present
the Gift Of Freedom
to the brothers and sisters on 'the other side of Danube'?

@ SamSpam

Re your comment: "I've made up my mind, that is to say, the voices in my head are so loud I cannot hear myself think..next question..the soviets are coming,fish for lunch,
where's my shirt? "

Those in glass houses etc - not you of course. I don't even know if you ever posted before.

The point is that what this nut case said is not so different than some postings on this website. Same insanity, different allegations.

Why is the claim that Hungary is going to attack Slovakia any more bizarre than Hungary being Israel's Number 1 target?

How about Mossad agents lurking on this website? I guess they were tracking Wolfi the Nazi only to find out he was Jewish.

@Viking
Ah, you mean the plan to celebrate the election victory with a 'Victory Parade' on April 12, with the New Csendőrség all mounted on White Horses (to honour the Admiral) in procession over all the bridges to 'the other side of Danube' (aka 'Slovakia' by slimy foreigners) and present
the Gift Of Freedom
to the brothers and sisters on 'the other side of Danube'?

I take it we can all assume that this statement is based upon exactly the same kind of factual basis as your earlier one about Jobbik being anti-entrepreneur. Correct?

It really is amazing how you think that stuff you just decide to imagine in your tiny little mind, is what other people believe. And that you imagining these things is the only proof you'll ever need that such assertions are factual and sound.

You do know that there are treatments for this now, don't you? Seroquel and Zyprexa are well regarded apparently, and patients usually respond quite well I'm told.

Seroquel and Zyprexa are well regarded apparently, and patients usually respond quite well I'm told.
bobscountrybunker at January 20, 2010 2:21 AM
---
Your Mother told you that, that after you started with your medication you are a nice boy again?
-
You guys have a real sense of humour.
Or, should we take your previous statement, the first post in this thread, as serious?
-
And I still see that you have not answered my evaluation of one paragraph on the Jobbik's manifesto at January 19, 2010 9:11 AM:
http://www.politics.hu/20100118/radical-nationalists-preparing-for-election-victory#c26
but you probably agree on that also
-
When I have the time to translate and write a well-thought through evaluation of the paragraph you ask for, I will do that.
Just hold your breath waiting.

@Viking
"When I have the time to translate and write a well-thought through evaluation of the paragraph you ask for, I will do that."

And pigs might fly too someday sunshine. And pigs might fly...

What a wonderful moment.
Sane people, slovak and hungarian laughing together on idiotic paranoic nationalistic nonsense.

Next time, I would appreciate to laugh also on your
slice of nationalistic nonsense, of course together with all sane hungarians;)

This made my day for sure

Very good. We Croats will then retake Bosnia and help Hungary reclaim Vojvodina.

@ KingCroat
You need to educate me on that. It was my impression that Bosnia was Serb but it was taken from them by NATO. You are right about Vojvodina being Hungarian but is seems that at the time the Serbs are not near as difficult as the Slovaks are. Someday, we may have to deal with them and Croat help would be appreciated if it comes to that.
Hungarian and Croats always had good relations and I am happy that Hungary, under the Fidesz government aided the Croatians to gain their independence from Yugoslavia. Had it been the current Zionist/Communist MSZP/SZDSZ government, Hungary would not have provided arms to our Croatian friends. We need to remove the Communists from power in every post-Soviet country, forever.

We need to remove the Communists from power in every post-Soviet country, forever
Mark at January 22, 2010 8:14 AM
---
And how do you do that "forever"?
What guarantees do you give?
For how many years is the guarantee valid?

vdx, there's a very simple answer to your query. This post was written a few days before it was published, and I was out of the country this past week and was not keeping up to date on Hungary or Slovakia-related events. As for extremists existing in both countries, the comments left on this site by certain individuals more than illustrate that fact.

Dear Mark,

Things get complex south of the border. Bosnia was and continues to be divided between Croats, Serbs and Muslims. I don't want to get into a blame game here, but let's just say these groups have had their historical differences that have included a lot of violence. The violence began in 1991, and went on dreadfully for 3 and a half years, until it was ended by outside interference in the form of smart bombs etc.

In those 3 and a half years, we saw over a million refugees, forced expulsions, "rape camps" and many other horrors. The combatant parties were strong enough to keep up the slaughter, but not strong enough to deliver a knock out to their enemy. It was a replay of the trench warfare stalemate of WW1. I believe that without NATO intervention, the fighting would have gone on longer, maybe much longer.

When talking to these Balkanites, whatever their nationality, I hear endless self pity and denial; they make Hungarians seem like a happy and emotionally well adjusted people! Nobody can explain sensibly how the violence started and how it got so out of control.

Bosnia has been effectively partioned into three seperate mini states along ethnic lines. It is economically and politically unviable without handouts and support from the outside. Should NATO, the UN and EU leave, the fighting would surely resume. There are too many victims, widows and orphans left over from the 90's who haven't had justice, therefore they are not at peace.

Dear Mark (again)

When I read over my above post, I don't want to give the mistaken impression that violent tensions between these groups truly 'started" in 1991; I only meant that relatively speaking. Between 1945 and 1991, there was a period of relative peace, enforced by Tito and his commitment to a united Yogoslavia.

There was a lot of violence there in 1941-45, when the Germans set up a nationalist Croatian puppet state that included much of Bosnia. The Croat Nationalists were called "Ustasha", and they began a systematic genocide against the Serbs. When the Croats announced their plans for independence in 90-91, this was taken very badly by Serbs, who thought it should be "payback time". Also compounding the problem was that both Croat and Serbian nationalists consider Bosnia to be a part of their respective idea of "Greater Croatia" and "Greater Serbia". (Not unlike how Hungarians and Romanians view Translyvania.) The point was, that nobody planned to stick to the official administrative boundaries, and so secession was seen not only as a chance to break free, but to expand your territory at the same time. Without checks and balances, it was a set-up for disaster.

(cont)

Dear László,
Thank you for the education. I was under the impression that Bosnia was mostly Muslim. The only correction I would make is that the violence did not start in 1991 but much earlier with the Ottoman Turks invading the Balkans and Europe. I followed the events; know about the atrocities, mostly committed by Serbs but not only by Serbs.
The odd thing is that we can discuss these recent events without becoming emotional about them and disagreements and corrections are accepted without recriminations. I wish we could have as open discussion about Hungary starting with 1919 to present day. We know that it is not possible because…

9cont)

The Bosnian muslims were caught in the middle of it in a way. The Croats resented them for not being catholic. The Serbs resented their cooperation with the Germans in WW2.There was a Waffen SS detachment recruited from the ranks of Bosnian Muslims, and they enjoyed favor and approval from SS chief Heinrich Himmler. Both Hitler and Himmler admired Islam as a "warrior religion". (Hitler detested the pacifistic "turn your other cheek and love thy enemies" trait in Christianity, feeling that it was a Jewish perversion.)

Given the history of the place and what was already going on in the revived war with the Croats, it was sheer recklessness on the part of Bosnian Muslim leader Izetbegovic to declare Bosnian independence, at that particular time. He was only speaking for his own community, and even then for only some of them. Neither Croats or Serbs took him seriously. He was risking a three way civil war, and that is what he got.

A picture is better than words, especially in this case. Here is an ethnic map of Bosnia, the "Bosnjaci" are Muslims, the "Srbi" are of course Serbs and "Hrvati" are Croatians"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DemoBIH2006aa.PNG

The current governing set-up of Bosnia tries to get these three groups to work together, but there is a lot of seperation. The most independent is the Serb part, called the "Republica Srbska". This state of affairs does not help the country to integrate and get on it's feet. Bosnia continues to be a ward of the international community, and which consumes more resources than it produces. I believe the international community takes on this responsibility because it fears a resumption of violence if they left, leaving them with a massive refugee problem.

Of course one can start a discussion from 1919 about Hungary, but that is a fruitful as having a discussion on Yugoslavia starting 1991.
-
Serbia was the country that lost the highest % of the population in WWI.
They lost it against Austria-Hungarian, Bulgarian and Ottoman forces. All sides, including Hungarian forces committed atrocities against the Serbs.
-
Even WWI had a foreplay, so one cannot just start at 1914.
We have the starting of the collapse of the Habsburg Empire around 1860. This gave Count Andrássy de Csíkszentkirály et Krasznahorka a chance later to become the de facto Foreign Minister for the Double-Monarchy and as such he brought the occupation of Bosnia-Herzegovina on Hungary under a mandate from the Berlin Congress in 1878.
This occupation was not popular in Hungary, both for financial reasons and because of the strong philo-Turk sentiments of the Hungarians and it lead to Andrássy resignation eventually.
-
So Hungarian troops were already in 1878 in Bosnia-Herzegovina, so it is my surprise that we not sometimes hear demands to 'retake' it?
-
Already Andrássy saw the area as important from an European perspective (it had to do with the Russian and Ottoman Empires' influence over Europe).
-
So which year is year 'zero' in this Balkan area that Hungary is at least a neighbour to and always been influenced from?
1830?

Dear Viking,

About where to begin discussion of historical cause and effect is difficult in that region, as the history does go back so far in time.

I have to see what happened in 1991 in a number of ways:

1)That it was preceeded by a general peace that lasted over 45 years. Therefore it was a peace "lost" by the political leaders of 1991. They have a lot on their consciences! A good question for all to ask, is "If we could turn the clock back to 1990 or 1991, what would we do differently to avoid the catastrophe?" Was anything learned, or would the horrors just repeat themselves?

2)That the leaders were evolving out of communist, non-democratic regimes, and were unaccustomed to accountability and a free press.

3)That there were many living then who remembered the unique violence of the WW2 period, and which fueled a desire for vengeance.

4)That nationalism, so long supressed by the Yogoslav govt under Tito, erupted when secessionism happened. This included conflicting claims of territory.

@FL:

Yes the two components: Remembering WW2 and getting rid of communism which had not allowed any "National feelings" were very decisive for the troubles after1989. I was in Istria evry year in the 79s and 80s with my family, it was very strange sometimes. For example the inflation: In one year you could feed your whole family in a restaurant for 100 Dinar, next year this would just be enough for some drinks and the year after you might get an icecone for this money ...

That robbed the people of everything. The communist system was untenable in the long run, it had to end in some disaster ...

Hi Wolfi,

One of the many bad things about Communism was that it is hard to evolve away from it's legacy. Only China and to some extent Vietnam are making a working transition that combines state and private ownership. I've often wondered if that is not the way we should have gone, but then the culture is different in Asia...

Hi FL: good to see you again. While I do agree that China and Vietnam are 'transitioning' economically speaking, I wouldn't say that the respective communist parties have any intention of letting go of power anytime soon. Although the news these days seems to be filled with glowing reports of how things are changing and improving (which is undeniable) there is still a lot of repression, coercion and control exerted by the government.
You're right though, the culture is fundamentally different in Asia...the culture of communism as well as the culture of the people.

WARNING:
http://www.magyarhirlap.hu/belfold/ennel_lejjebb_nincs_nagyon_durva_mszps_netkampany.html
A politikai riválisok lejáratása érdekében a pártközpontból érkező utasítások hamis hírek készítésére szólítják fel a netaktivistákat, akiknek megtévesztésül nemzeti radikálisnak kell kiadniuk magukat,

Translation:
To make political opponents lose credibility, instructions from party (MSZP) headquarters direct the Internet agents to pretend to speak as if they were for national radicals,

Maybe Bob or Pava can do a better translation but I see that these recent forgeries using Law’s name and my name are in accordance with this MSZP directive. My suggestion is to read the content of posts because these forgeries are very primitive and easy to discover.

@Mark: It's just getting funnier and funnier the way you can't really understand Hungarian but insist on cutting and pasting bits here. You would be an embarrassment to any Hungarian party, so I'm sure even Jobbik would want to distance themselves from you - inarticulate, crude and juvenile. On the other hand, carry on the good work, you do it far better than a rival could.

Hi Mark,

Good morning, these imposter's' as you describe use
the lowest form of filthy politics, thanks for the
link.

@ Vandorloo why do you deny the obvious? You have no
honor or integrity and you expect people to respond
to you with civilized debate, shouldn't you be
resting on the Sabbath?

Dear Farkas Laszlo It's a valid point you raise
about Hungarians complaining about the Jews, I
have heard a lot of this in Hungary and Europe
since living here. I would like to clarify what
your thought’s are on the effects of the
establishment Jews are on all of us, are you
suggesting that we have to accept that they can
remain in control and power from their continuous
cheating and corrupt ways and why it's not
productive to expose their lies? Do we just sit by
and let them continue their reign of control?
Sometimes we as civilized people have to make
sacrifices, be it material or physical to release
the shackles that are choking Hungary and the rest
of the world. Who are we? Either those who
worship mammon or are we to be sucked into the
slow decay of all our right’s? You said that we
have more say now then under the Kadar Soviet
communist I really wonder, I believe at least we
could see our enemies with more clarity during the
communist rule, now they use laws and powerful
organizations like EU, NATO and the United nations
to force laws that strip nations of their
Sovereign right’s. cont

People are still going to jail who express their
views under the banner of Freedom of speech, and
you’re only free until you don’t cross the line of
what the establishment have drawn in the sand, so
is this not a form of false promises? To me it
appears more damaging to societies then before,
and just because people have become consumers is
not an excuse to say they are free people, as long
as you work and live for consumerism we are a good
law abiding citizens. This is where it sucks the
whole game of politics, while the power elite use
the divide rule and conquer method time and time.
If we want to make it a better generation for our
future societies isn’t our journey to reveal the
truth’s of what’s happening in this world? I’m
sorry to hear your life experience of you father
and hope there is a positive lesson we can all
learn from your experience and others’ on a way of
taking on this challenge without harming ones
soul. sok szeretettel

Dear Law,

Thanks for your concern. It is an entirely valid thing to question how power is concentrated and how it is abused. We all have a right to speak out and to expose those who we think are guilty, whoever they are. Being able to do this is one big difference between now and pre-1989!

Last night was most unfortunate, as you can well appreciate, as it involved forging Zsuzsa, Mark and yourself, while at the same time calling me names. What I had to say about jews, as well as my dad was a response to being called a jew lover.

Your post speaks to concerns about priorities and self empowerment. Right now, the world is wrapped up in consumerism because it fulfills momentary wants and desires, plus creates a lot of business and employment. The problem with us, is that many Hungarians don't have the wherewithal to keep distracting themselves this way. The other is that not enough Hungarians are in the business of sypplying and selling to these "needs". One can get away from consumerism as a personal choice. In the communist era your degree of consumption was determined by the state.

"Consumerism" is a new phenomenon with us. My grandmother came from a different era. As an old peasant woman, I recall us taking her out and how she ate at a restaurant for the first time in her life at the age of 74! I don't want for us to go back to that kind of simplicity! It wasn't a choice really, it came from a restrictive economic order and poverty.

1)That it was preceeded by a general peace that lasted over 45 years. Therefore it was a peace "lost" by the political leaders of 1991. They have a lot on their consciences! A good question for all to ask, is "If we could turn the clock back to 1990 or 1991, what would we do differently to avoid the catastrophe?" Was anything learned, or would the horrors just repeat themselves?
Farkas László at January 22, 2010 7:18 PM
---
Dear Mr. Farkas,
The obvious when doing a fast transition from one political/economical system to another there will be some victims, a few winners and the majority in between
The transition in Hungary had its specifics with similarities to the Yugoslavian transition
I am thinking of the IMF-loans that the Communist regime in both countries took out to 'buy the population's support and even admiration'
These loans, which of course were still not paid back at the time of transition, plaid a very negative role especially in Hungary in the 90s, hence the Bokross-years
Also, all over the previous Soviet-block we had rather non-violent transitions, with every thing that means of not settled scores
This is though nothing new in history, same thing happened in Spain after Franco and there is a lot of anger by the families of the victims from the Franco time that is just swept under the rug
On the other hand, we should all review what happened in South-Africa when they ceased with apartheid. Maybe the most important is not always settling scores?
-
TBC

Cont
-
What should the politicians have done different?
2 things I can think of:
a) The old IMF-loans
As I understand it was an Hungarian idea to repay the loans asap, so I assume there was a possibility to renegotiate the payment terms
If that would have led that we would have come to the current situation faster, is a good question though
-
b) "Indocrination of the nation's youth"
Yes, I know it sounds terrible but a State need to indocrinate, as it has a Police Force to protect the current order of the State
The Police Force did not change its role from the Communist period to the current period
Hopefully it has changed its practice and is a more open and Democraticly controlled organisation today, but the goal is still the same, as it always has been and always will be
The problem with the youth was that there existed a number of State supported organisations that took care of the task that the youth got some indocrination
At the transition all these organisations disappeared and were never really replaced by something
OK, the political parties have their youth organisations, but as a reaction from the Communist-period was that anything related to the "Establishment" was bad, so they have played a rather small roll
-
TBC

Cont
-
Already during the Communist period in Hungary in the beginning of the 1980s the appearance of the underground punk sub culture, with the participation of extremist musical groups, was essential to the development and success of an anti-state democratic youth movement
These in turn facilitated the creation of an anti-communist and anti-authoritarian popular mentality
It is clear that the State and the Courts accepted such racist, xenophobic anti-humanitarian messages
What remains is the messages, like "Gypsy-free zone", which became a slogan of racist skinheads in mid 1990s
Let us take one example:
Mos-oi was formed in late 1982 or in early 1983
Mos-oi was a first skinhead band in Hungary, and they had one gig and the bandmembers went to prison. Mosoi lyrics was very very hard, angry and anti-social at this time. Some lyrics was racist like the
-
"Immigrants' Share" (Bevándorlók bére):
The flamethrower is the only weapon I need to win
All gypsy adaults and children we'll exterminate
But we can kill all of them at once in unison
When it is done we can advertise: Gypsy-free zone
-
And Jobbik blame 'gypsycrime' the last 20 years as cause for the atrocities against Roma in today's Hungary?
This lyric is from 1982, 8 years before the transition
-
TBC

Cont
-
Although the Roma were (and continue to be) an obsession of racist youths and their music, in their attitudes and songs there were until the 1980s no anti-Jewish sentiments
This attitude instantly changed when the extreme and nationalistic right appeared when Communism was ousted
Even if the skinhead music is relative marginal it is still intertwined with extreme right-wing political organisations
In Hungary the re-emergence of skinhead groups and the rice of neo-fascism in the 90s are related
The Eastern European youth willingly accepted nationalist, xenophobic and extreme rightist demagoguery at face value after the demise of centralist rule
It is here the politicians of yesterday lost
The question is what we should do about it?
--
I will try to concentrate more on Yugoslavia specific on answering the remainder of your questions.

Actually I missed my closing remark:
A quote from Ezraim Kohák, a Czech writer and expatriate, who wrote in the early 90s:
-
"The mood in Central Europe...is a mood of absolute demands and of righteous wrath. Most of all, it is a mood of frustration and anger, of deep and bitter anger seeking an excuse to vent itself"
-
And further:
"It may be possible that the politically immature nations of Central Europe must pass through a phase of virulent nationalism before the become capable of a mature and tolerant patriotism, learning to live and work for their nations rather than to kill and die for them"
-
Said close to 20 years ago.
The question is if we in Central/Eastern Europe (I exclude former Soviet-union here) has not come to this stage, despite every nation has it Jobbik-type of political movement?
The break-up of Yugoslavia was not a success, but it had special features that we will go through later

Hello Viking,

Thanks for the interesting posts. The points you raised about vengeance for the past were good as well. (If any place should have erupted into a bloodbath of old score settling, it should have been Spain after the death of Franco!)

The Yugoslav situation was unique and had some unique features to it. One was that is was a forced federation of constituent ethnic republics. At least on paper, they had the right to secede, a constitutional bluff that was eventually called. The other factor was that these different ethnic groups, Croats, Serbs, Albanians and Bosnian muslims, have had a terrible history with one another, especially during the WW2 period.

The main reason I think there was no "velvet" transition there out of communism to peaceful coexistence, was that leaders like Tudjman and Milosovic wanted to hold on to power at all costs. Thus they seamlessly converted from communist apparatchiks to nationalists. Out went the the red stars, hammer and sickles and in came the old inflammatory nationalist symbols, flags and salutes, without so much as skipping a beat! (I heard there was a secret deal between Tudjaman and Milosovic to partition Bosnia, drawn up o a napkin!)

Secession also brought with it territorial opportunism and adventeurism. Only the Slovenes wanted to just stick to Slovenia, everyone else wnated a "Greater" Croatia, Serbia or Albania. What a damn mess it was, what a disaster!