Hungarians showed little interest in party politics in January, just a few months before general elections, according to a survey by pollster Forsense published on Thursday.
The most talked-about topics so far in 2010 have been the financial scandals and strike at Budapest Transport Company BKV, whose management has been accused of mishandling funds and paying out golden handshakes to former company officials, while cutting employee bonuses.
The largest proportion of people – 45 percent in the week of the strike – mentioned the BKV strike as a current topic of interest, followed by the scandals within that company, which were quoted by 11 percent of those polled. Price rises were cited by 9 percent of respondents, especially rising fuel costs.
Other topics which were mentioned, though scarcely, were the new flu virus, tax changes, pension reform plans and Pecs’s European Capital of Culture title.
Issues concerning party politics were mentioned by just one percent of respondents, which, similarly to the same month four years ago, showed that people were not getting heated up for the election campaign just yet, the poll said.
Elections 2010 – President announces Apr 11 election day – MTI 1/22 10:34
-
Gentlemen, time to start your motors!
-
Interesting that none mentioned ‘gypsycrime’ as an important issue, maybe Hungary is not being wiped out by ‘gypsy criminals’ then?
Viking – I thought the gypsies were responsible for the BKV strike?
Not 100% correct, dear ABBA:
The Jews are responsible for the GypsyCrime which is responsible for the strike – but of course the Jews are responsible for everything bad that happens (or has happened) in Hungary …
At least our “Tiszta Magyar” couple Murky and Lawless want it to be that way …
The general population may not be involved in politics but they are watching. More and more Hungarians are facing problems as corruption; political/economic/gypsy crime is destroying the lives of ordinary, hard working Hungarians.
The Communist MSZP and SZDSZ will try as many dirty tricks as they can dream up to deflect the just blame that they deserve for destroying Hungary and exposing the most vulnerable people, the elderly to economic and gypsy crime.
The Communist provocateurs get rewards for spreading misinformation on the Internet but that is not going to work any more. People have learned a hard lesson and they will not be fooled by Communist promises and Communist sliming again.
Jobbik is not the only target of Communist slime and misinformation. They are hitting Fidesz now just as hard as they were hitting Jobbik. We know what happened as the result of Communist hate campaign against Jobbik. They got nearly 15% and 3 EP delegates. Finally, Fidesz is wising up. I have not seen any anti-Jobbik attack by Fidesz since the Communists started sliming them also. At last, they recognized that the Communists are and always were the enemies of Hungary and Hungarian people.
Magyar ne bántson magyart!
More and more Hungarians are facing problems as corruption; political/economic/gypsy crime is destroying the lives of ordinary, hard working Hungarians
…
Magyar ne bántson magyart!
Mark at January 22, 2010 5:39 PM
—
One question every one can ask themselves, now 20 years after – was it better under the Communists?
Looking at the typical Mark/Jobbik argument the last 20 years have been a total failure. They have been so bad that all Economical and National polices must be totally destroyed.
I suppose the people living here in Hungary the last 30 years should answer those questions.
None of the regular posters here did, so they are excluded (Law will post some fake responses now).
Actually I do not think any one that have lived in Hungary the last 30 years even read this site.
When I ask my parents in law, who actually *never ever* have left Hungary and they are over 70 years, their assessment is that life is better now than 20-30 years ago.
“Politicians cheated before and everything was total corruption during the Communists”
-
Mark is playing around with a new slogan:
“Hungarian never hurt a fellow Hungarian”-type of.
Well I think it comes to the definition of what is an ‘Hungarian’.
Mark and his ilk has a very narrow, based on political merits, definition:
‘Real Hungarians Vote Jobbik’
All other are different type of traitors, or just foreigners.
Hello Viking,
I do remember well the Hungary of 20 and 30 years ago.
Whatever happened in the last 20 years, it’s part of our learning experience in trying to run our own affairs. For us, to be free of unwanted and uninvited foreign occupation is a novelty. For us, learning to start and run our own businesses is also something we are working through.
I don’t want to turn the clock back! Some people do, because they yearn for security in employment and housing. The security the communist regime provided was offset by the insecurity of facing arrest by the secret police over anything, and I mean anything; it could be a joke, a comment, a gesture, or just having the wrong friends or family.
There used to be great inequalities under the old regime; these inequalities grew wider under a “market” economy. As people see more goods available, their expectations have grown as well as their frustration when they realize they can’t afford them.
I’d say that 20 years ago, we were more hopeful of what the future would bring. We didn’t understand, or underestimated our ability to keep up in a world ruled by private capital.
My question to my readers is this: what will it be like 20 years hence? How will we create wealth, what level of corruption will we have and how will we govern ourselves? How will we deal with crime and minority issues?
Hi Farkas Laszlo
Many of the answers are found in the Jobbik new
campaign policy available on Barikad.hu , if you
have a spare moment over the weekend.
Thanks Law, I will do that.
The nature of parliamentary politics being what it is, politicians and parties will have to make compromises, sometimes with people they don’t like or don’t agree with. Until a party can gain a majority and make their MP’s vote a certain way, coalitions and compromise will have to rule. That’s why I never wanted to become a poltician!
You know Law, I remember when everything was so different! You couldn’t express your own opinion unless it matched the official one. Political questions were all solved in Moscow; we just got the marching orders. The economic system was engraved in stone and sanctified by ideology. Nobody questioned it openly, even when it didn’t work. I’m still in wonder, not that our multi-party parliamentary system doesn’t work well, but rather that we have one at all!
I express my love of Hungary by forgiving our mistakes, bad as many of them were! We are inexperienced at running ourselves, while other nations have had centuries of experience. I’d like to think that the next 20 years will build upon our past and improve our direction!
Hello again Law,
Let’s all stay on that Mako gas field politically! All political parties need to figure out what their take is on the matter.
I invite your political affiliates, as well as any other’s as well to look into several issues:
1)What were the terms upon which so many acres of Hungarian land were acquired by oil companies?
2)Were any of our politicians personally benefitting from the deals, especially the conveyance of the land?
3)What if any restrictions were put on the oil firms and the production?
4)Were there any options and what were the terms?
5)What do we do if the majors say they want to cap the wells?
6)How do we tax the proceeds of the production, expected to start in 2012, and on what do we spend the money?
7)Were any “sweetheart deals” given to the majors, exempting them from taxes?
8)Should we make the foreign majors reinvest some of their profits in Hungary?
9)Should the Hungarian govt “discipline”, tax or “kick out” any major that doesn’t cooperate or produce?
All of these are good questions! Much depends on them. how do we make the most of an unexpected attack of good fortune! A gas field of this size doesn’t happen just anywhere. Let’s think about what it means and make the most of it.
Many of the answers are found in the Jobbik new
campaign policy
Law at January 22, 2010 11:01 PM
—-
16 years ago, in April 1994, the following Australian TV-report was made on the right-wing fringe in Hungary:
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0Rl1Rtd4WI
-
Albert Szabo, who emigrated to Australia in the beginning of the 80s has returned to Hungary and created a Hungarian political party dedicated to intolerance and the return to right-wing policies.
Just listen to his rhetoric and remember what Law and Mark normally posts.
-
If any one, like Bob?, would like to distance Jobbik from Albert Szabo, how can you then accept sympathizers like Mark and Law?
Is a party just a political pamphlet or is it the sum of their members and sympathizers’ thinking?
-
Led by Albert Szabo, Magyar Nepjoleti Szovetseg (MNSz) was formed in 1994.
In 1996 the party reportedly claimed 3,000 or 5,000 members, of which 1,200 were active.
In 2000, the Hungarian National Security Office (NBH) reportedly described the MNSz as “disintegrating” and having only 20-25 remaining members, down from earlier estimates of 400-500 members.
Another report indicates that MSNz “disappeared without a trace” after the Orban government was elected in 1998
-
Any one knows where Albert Szabo, Istvan Gyokros and Csaba Kunstar are today?
Those guys worked together in different organisations in 1990s.
Their ideas hardly disappeared, they just changed organisation
Jobbik are not Nazi never have been, they want a
better future for the Nation on the Hungarian
peoples terms, simple not a complicated ask!! Just
the likes of the Neo Liberals who try and smear
Jobbik with Nazi slogans…
You have no integrity Viking go back to Sweden and
if they don’t accept you there then try the
Highlands of Papua New Guinea, I heard they have cannibals there so do be careful ..
“Jobbik are not Nazi never have been, they want a
better future for the Nation on the Hungarian
peoples terms, simple not a complicated ask!! Just
the likes of the Neo Liberals who try and smear
Jobbik with Nazi slogans…”
So I wonder why the Hungarian Guard (two current branches) is
announced as participating group of the Nazi event “becsulet
napja” on Feb 13th? The poster shows an SS-soldier and an
arrow cross soldier on Arpad-stripes, and the slogan is “The
heroes of Europe”. Huh?
Oh sure, the Guard is not part of Jobbik, stupid me.
So why on the cover of Jobbik’s election program you can see
one of their candidates in the banned guard uniform?
Oh sure, he’s wearing it as a private statement only, no
connection to his candidacy/Jobbik whatsoever.
This kind of logic might work well for people who never
progressed beyond what they learned under communism, but
everywhere else (Germany for example) you have one look at
Jobbik and what you see from their statements and actions is a
NAZI party, full stop.
Who is a Nazi? The most celebrated American Nazi was a Jew named Frank Collin, a child molester and organizer of Nazi march on Skokie, Illinois:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Collin
There is no love of Communists or Nazis in America or Hungary. If you wanted to see Nazis, real mean, genocidal, racist Nazis, you would have to visit Nazi Israel. Hungarians not loving Jews who did horrible things against Hungarians under Béla Kohn (Kohn) and Mátyás Rákosi (Rosenfeld) regimes is no indication that Hungarians are anti-Semitic or Nazis. They do not like those who murdered and tortured their fellow Hungarians. If these brutal murderers and sadistic torturers had been Martians instead of Jews, Hungarians would have no love for Martians.
Remembering Becsület napja (Német és magyar alakulatok 1945. február 11-én este Budáról indult kitörési kísérlete):
Hungarians need not apologize for honoring those Hungarian soldiers who fought and died fighting the Soviets. It is the duty of every patriotic Hungarian to honor these heroes. They do not have to be Jobbik supporters or members of Magyar Garda. They need to be patriotic Hungarians who recognize the sacrifices these brave soldiers made in defense of their country.
Jobbik are not Nazi never have been
Law at January 23, 2010 12:45 PM
—
And that is why you are using the same symbols and rhetoric as people, who you call ‘Nazi’.
I did not do that in my post, the 16 year old video though called Albert Szabo a Neo-Nazi, but that is them.
-
On March 15 1996, Szabó organised a street march
In his speech he attacked all foreigners and announced that by the fall of 1996 his group would take over the country
He greets his audience, mostly skinhead youth, with “Better Future’ (Szebb jövőt) and a “Heil Hitler” salute
-
In the Australian ABC video I posted earlier you can also see Arpad-flags from one of the demos (not to be mixed up with the 9-stripe Arrow Cross-flag)
-
Jobbik is today trying to monopolise the use of the Arpad-flag, even it has been used heavily by organisations who have claimed a more open ‘Nazi’-legacy since 1990
I am still trying to find a picture where the Arpad-flag is being used pre-1990, in the same sense as today. I have not seen it from any of the 1956 pictures as an example
-
Mark, Ricsi, Law are the posters here (with their extra aliases) that use the expression “Szebb jövőt” (even if Law has known spelling problems with it). It is an expression that was used heavily during the 1930s by several Hungarian Fascist organisations
Fidesz has tried to coin its own, not so symbol-loaded, statement like ‘Hajrá Magyarország!’
These 3 guys make a political statement by using exactly the statement which have a Fascist past
Hungarians need not apologize for honoring those Hungarian soldiers who fought and died fighting the Soviets. It is the duty of every patriotic Hungarian to honor these heroes. They do not have to be Jobbik supporters or members of Magyar Garda. They need to be patriotic Hungarians who recognize the sacrifices these brave soldiers made in defense of their country.
Mark at January 23, 2010 3:44 PM
—
And Mark claims not to be a ‘Neo-Nazi’?
First go to Jobbik’s own paper and check out the pictures from the ‘celebrations’ of 2002-02-09:
-
http://barikad.hu/node/11543
-
Then we can go through *what* is celebrated:
1944 16 October, the Germans launched Operation Panzerfaust, replacing Horthy and his government with “Hungarist” Ferenc Szálasi, from the Arrow Cross Party
On 26 December the Soviet forces encircled the city
Szálasi had already fled the city on 9 December
Nearly 33,000 German, 37,000 Hungarian soldiers and over 800,000 civilians, became trapped within the city
Hitler refused to authorize a withdrawal
Some of the captured Hungarian soldiers defected and fought on the Soviet side known as the “Volunteer Regiment of Buda”
February 11, 1945 28.000 German and Hungarian troops started the last break-out together with an unknown number of civilians
-
Hungary was occupied by Nazi-Germany, the troops fleeing were not defending Hungary, they fled because they were going to be tried for crimes against the Hungarian population
This is a Neo-Nazi not an Hungarian Patriotic event
There are no Nazis in Hungary. If you want to see Nazis, real mean, genocidal, racist Nazis, you should go home to Nazi Israel.
The slaughter of Palestinians, selling their organs, using Palestinian mothers and children for target practice, destroying Palestinian homes to make room for Jewish settlements, brutal torture of prisoners are all proofs that Hitler and Mengele are alive and well in Nazi Israel.
Gaza is a Nazi concentration camp.
There are no Nazis in Hungary
Mark at January 24, 2010 7:50 AM
—
That is also Bob’s point of view, when discussing if Jobbik is ‘Neo-Nazi’.
Personally I do not think that Jobbik is ‘Neo-Nazi’, I think they are just plain ‘Neo-Fascist’ (a small difference exist, which can be of less importance).
The biggest proof for there are no ‘Nazi’ in Hungary and why Jobbik is not ‘Neo-Nazi’ seem to be that ‘Nazi’ per definition is a German organisation.
True in one sense, untrue that in many countries in the world, including Mark’s home country (US), there existed from the 30s and forward pro-Nazi organisations in bigger or lesser extent.
The most outspoken pro-Nazi party in Hungary in the 30s and 40s was the “Hungarist” Ferenc Szálasi with his Arrow Cross Party
When Hitler made Szálasi his Hungarian Puppet, Szálasi wrote the following Day Order that can be found here:
-
http://dayofhonour.hu/
-
By clicking on your language-flag (the English is the English, not the UK/US) and then going on to ‘Literature’ (English version) you can read the:
“Nationleader Ferenc Szálasi’s general order to the armed Nation”, clicking ‘Next’ on that you can read things like:
-
“In our Nation’s duty I say many thanks to the brilliant leader of the German folk:to Adolf Hitler,as a really loyal Comrade,who is of great help to our Nation,in Its fate deciding days”
-
Yeah, no ‘Nazis’ in Good Old Hungary and no ‘Neo-Nazis’ that publish this today either…
Using this twisted logic, everyone on the other side was Communist. The Julius and Ethel Rosenberg and most of Hollywood Jews were Communists but the American people were not. The same goes for Hungary.
There were never any Nazis in Hungary other than a few German nationals. The Nyilas were nationalistic and considered the Germans allies against the Soviet hordes. Anyone witnessed or told about the atrocities committed by the Soviet army and the horrors of Jewish Rakosi regime can appreciate those who did their best to stop the Soviets. One did not have to be a Nazi or Nyilas to fight the Soviets, all it took is a love of country.
If you want Nazis, go home to Nazi Israel.
Actually checking out the Day Of Honour website, I found one article that I think is very much the same as Law is writing over and over again:
-
“Since the so-called “change of regime” (1989) the situation is in fact unaltered:the Hungarian statehood is not restored,control is in the hand of a freemason controlling,traitor,bolshevik-communist mob,in their descendants hand,or in similary freemason liberals’s hand.Europe waged her last war against a might,now this might rules the whole world.We have not got illusions,we lost the war,and with today’s power relations there is no one thing we can certainly preserve:our honour.The only reason for that,because communists and liberal democrats cannot to be done with it,and do not understand:how people can devote their life for their faith”
-
The above quote is from the intro to
“The Day of Honour 1999″,
which I can remember every one was in the rule of Fidesz. If you read that article and check the description of the Police actions and compare that to the current right-wing descriptions, well you understand why these guys hate Fidesz so much.
-
I suppose only Mark is the one to claim that the organisations behind ‘The Day of Honour’ in Budapest are not ‘Neo-Nazi’?
If Jobbik and Magyar Guarda is getting involved in this, as ‘x’ posts (Jan 23 2:07 PM), is significant
-
“In the NS Front parttaking organizations are: Blood & Honour Hungaria;
HHS;
Véres Kard;
Skins4Skins Hungaria;
Hungaria Skins”
-
“NS” means ‘National Socialist’
Just so that there is no misunderstanding I do not like Nazis, I do not like the long gone German Nazis or the present day Jewish Nazis.
They are all the same to me.
“Since the so-called “change of regime” (1989) the situation is in fact unaltered:the Hungarian statehood is not restored,control is in the hand of a freemason controlling,traitor,bolshevik-communist mob,in their descendants hand,or in similary freemason liberals’s hand.Europe waged her last war against a might,now this might rules the whole world.We have not got illusions,we lost the war,and with today’s power relations there is no one thing we can certainly preserve:our honour.The only reason for that,because communists and liberal democrats cannot to be done with it,and do not understand:how people can devote their life for their faith”
Thank you for posting it. Every word of it is true. The people who are saying it are not Nazis, they are patriotic Hungarians who fear the loss of their homeland to the new Nazis, the Jewish Nazis.
The Nyilas were nationalistic and considered the Germans allies against the Soviet hordes
Mark at January 24, 2010 9:02 AM
—
That is why the ‘Nyilas’ had to deliver a few 100.000 Jews to the Germans?
How did that help “against the Soviet hordes”?
Actually, if the Nazis had not kept their very best SS-division in Hungary at Budapest hunting Jews and instead sent them to the front to defend Hungary “against the Soviet hordes” there would have been a military difference
But Hitler and the Nazis were so in to exterminating Jews, that they prioritised that over the military tactic
That is your ‘Saviour’ for you
-
All countries occupied by Nazi-Germany had their ‘Nyilas’ and their Szálasi
The Norwegian Szálasi gave name for the whole dirty business of being a traitor ‘Quisling’
Mark, you are nothing else but an Hungarian Quisling and deserve all the respect such a person will get
If your Jobbik-friends Law and Ricsi and Bob(?) still want to call Mark their friend is up to them, but I think other people would like to know if Mark is regarded as a ‘house trained Jobbik sympathiser’ or just an ‘agent provocateur’?
Do you really think that your distortions and lies make any difference to any Hungarian? They can read my posts and see what it is that I am saying. They do not need a new Nazi, a Zionazi provocateur such as you to tell them what my posts are saying. You Jews are doing exactly what Hitler did and your deceit and lies are also identical.
Is Mark a ‘Real Hungarian’ or just an ‘agent provocateur’?
From one of the Neo-Nazi websites that exists out there and advises on ‘Covert Actions’
-
http://www.combat18.net/covert.html
-
“Political Action
Political covert action usually means infiltrating an already existing non-National Socialist group or organization or the setting-up of such an organization as a “front”. The main purpose of this type of action is to recruit members of these organizations for our Cause and to further spread the National Socialist message.
The best recruiting grounds for our Cause are existing racial nationalist organisations as they will often contain the raw material needed for the advancement of our Cause.
Those who infiltrate such organisations must always remember that they are National Socialists and that their aim is therefore the creation of a National Socialist State, not a “nationalist” one. The only way to National Socialism on a state level is by National Socialism itself and will never be achieved through the politics of compromise. A government of compromise is a government of compromise, be it nationalist or otherwise: it is not, and never would be, National Socialist.
Those who infiltrate racial nationalist organisations must fully understand this. The purpose of infiltration is not to promote these organisations for their own “nationalist” ends but to use them to advance the cause of National Socialism”
-
Ask the question if Jobbik should join a Coalition Government
“Since the so-called “change of regime” (1989) the situation is in fact unaltered:the Hungarian statehood is not restored,control is in the hand of a freemason controlling,traitor,bolshevik-communist mob,in their descendants hand,or in similary freemason liberals’s hand.” ….but who’s fault is this? Since 1989 Hungarians, real Hungarians who were born here and live here, have a choice in their leadership, they choose this path. Don’t blame the government, blame the people who for 20 years have chosen what you despise.
We should be directing our criticism
at the useless and inefficient
MSZP government – not each other!
Those people motivated only by hatred and
intolerance are doomed to fail.
Hungary has many options as to which
direction it should steer the wayward and
sinking ship.
Let’s hear more about the Parties that
will contest the Spring election;
what their policies are and, why we
should vote for them.
After all, this is a political forum?
We should be directing our criticism at the useless and inefficient MSZP government – not each other!
…
After all, this is a political forum?
Candour at January 24, 2010 12:25 PM
—
The problem is that the Hungarian voters chose “the useless and inefficient MSZP government” (as C’est Moi points at January 24, 2010 10:55 AM).
Do not those voters also belong to the persons that should not be criticised?
Or is ‘Hungarian Politics’ the same as always blaming the Current Government and those who elected it?
Personally I would not regard ‘Hungarian Quislings’ as partners for discussing which path Hungary should take for the future.
Can they not differ between ‘Nationalism’ and ‘National Socialism’, they are as useful as ‘Communists’. Same shit, different colour.
@Candour
You would be surprised how many of these posters would be delighted if the Communist MSZP/SZDSZ coalition could win the next election. These parties are so discredited that their supporters know that if would be futile for them to defend these criminals and traitors therefore they do their dirty work by attacking Jobbik, the party that presents the greatest threat to them.
When people attack each other, they attack for the things they stand for and advocate. Those that want to exploit Hungarians and colonize Hungary want the Zionist/Communists to continue to rule Hungary and dictate to Hungarians while turning them into slaves in their own country. They represent a very small percentage of Hungary’s population but they ruled over Hungarians since the occupation of Hungary by the Soviets. After the Soviets left Hungary, these Zionist/Communists managed to turn their Communist wealth and power into a powerful and very deceptive political force.
Hungarians are just waking up to the realities of what these criminals have done and want to reclaim their country. Hungary is rich in natural resources and Shimon Perez; the President of Nazi Israel openly boated about taking over Hungary. This is why we have so many Jews, parading as Swedes, Germans, Irish and Hungarian but never as Jews on these lists. They want to sabotage any discussion that exposes their designs on Hungary.
I do not know if I trust Fidesz to protect Hungarian interests but hope that they have some measure of decency and sense of patriotic duty and will do the right thing. I hope but I am not sure.
There is no question about Jobbik’s dedication and commitment to an independent Hungary. That is why these new Nazis, the Jew Nazis miss no opportunity to smear Jobbik and Jobbik supporters. The recent disgusting forgeries are an indication of how low these “people” are willing to go.
You asked about programs, I am still reading Jobbik’s 88-page program and you can do the same. It is posted on Jobbik’s site.
Mark said “There were never any Nazis in Hungary other than a few German nationals. ”
His historical revisionism is beyond fantastical.
Yes there were Hungarian Nazi’s in WWII.
German Nazi’s were a national socialist party. The Hungarian Arrow Cross party was also a national socialist party that was pro-German Nazi’s. To call the Arrow Cross party anything other than Nazi is just mincing words.
In 1939, the White Cross party had about 300,000 members and that was before they ruled Hungary from October 15, 1944 to January 1945.
These so called brave Hungarian’s did much more than just fight the Soviets.
They also killed 10,000′s of Hungarian Jews, and Hungarian Christians. And deported many more Jews to the concentration camps.
Any honor the members of the White Cross party may have had fighting the Soviets is completely annulled by their heinous war crimes. Many were executed or imprisoned after the WWII.
Further more the last time Europe had a political party with a militant wing that wore funny costumes the world lost 10′s of millions of people. Funny how the Jobbick’s have a militant wing that also wears funny costumes. And funny how those costumes so closely match the funny costumes the Hungarian facists’s wore in WWII.
Is Jobbick a Nazi party? No, that term refers to German facists of WWII. Are the Jobbicks facists? They sure smell like facists to me.
Mark,
Do not insult me and try and disregard my criticism of Jobbick by claiming I have communist sympathies.
My mother and grandparents fled Hungary after WWII to escape communism. My grandfather was accused of sabotage by the communists and was not allowed to return to Hungary until after the general amnesties of the 60′s.
And let me make this clear – you are an anti-Semitic. When I visit Hungary this summer, I hope to meet no one with your fascist and anti-Semitic leanings. Should I, I will not count them as friends.
Thank God 86% of Hungarian’s do not support your party’s viewpoint. For those that do – wake up, this is not 1944.
@Peter H
The Arrow Cross was nationalist, not Nazi. There is a very clear divide in that the Arrow Cross was for Hungary while the Nazis were for Germany. Cooperating with Germany at the time of war was no different from the other side cooperating with the Soviets. One cannot condemn one without condemning the other. They fought valiantly against the Soviet hordes along with other Hungarian units.
I do not believe your numbers about the Jews killed or sent to Germany by the Arrow Cross or the Nazis. Jews have an unpleasant tendency to lie and exaggerate to look more victimized while do an even better job of denying the crimes of Jewish Communists and Jewish Nazis. That is why Jews, especially Jews guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity need laws to ban free speech. They fear the truth.
The only real Nazis today are the Nazis in Israel and the Nazis who support Nazi Israel. Everyone else is just trying to secure a decent living for their people in their own country. Only Nazi Israel is taking over other people’s countries by force and by trickery and murdering those who oppose them. Target practicing on Palestinian mothers and their children is NAZI. It is happening today.
Marks says “I do not believe your numbers about the Jews killed or sent to Germany by the Arrow Cross or the Nazis. Jews have an unpleasant tendency to lie and exaggerate to look more victimized while do an even better job of denying the crimes of Jewish Communists and Jewish Nazis.”
So, Mark you are also a Holocaust denialist.
Thank you for making your true nature so clear to readers here.
One of the things Nazi’s were very good at was keeping meticulous records. The Holocaust was documented by the perpetrators and the sins of the Arrow Cross are well chronicled.
Jobbick claims not to be fascist, antisemitic, anti-Roma or homophobic. Yet, I have yet to read a comment by a Jobbick supporter that was not at least one of the above.
Even their immature leader, Gabor Vona can’t deal with a question about Holocaust denialism.
When asked a question about Holocaust denialism, all he could say was “if you are so interested in Jewish issues I suggest you move to Israel”.
I guess his party has no interest in representing the 1000′s of Hungarian Jews.
@Pete H:
You are absolutely correct – but you’ll find it’s no use trying to reason with those people.
So please don’t get too mad when you read their postings here – there are also some very good people here, not just the right wing antisemitic anti-Roma nationalists (I call them Nazis or jobos).
Hope you like the discussion still …
Thanks Wolfi.
I have no intention of reasoning with them. I just hope to counter their lies and hate with some information that other readers may find useful.
I am very proud of my Hungarian heritage and hope that Hungary will avoid making the same mistakes that shamed her in the past.
There are no Nazis in Hungary. If you want to see Nazis, real mean, genocidal, racist Nazis, you should go home to Nazi Israel.
The slaughter of Palestinians, selling their organs, using Palestinian mothers and children for target practice, destroying Palestinian homes to make room for Jewish settlements, brutal torture of prisoners are all proofs that Hitler and Mengele are alive and well in Nazi Israel.
We need to bring to justice the Nazi IDF war criminals and all those in the Nazi Israeli government who are responsible for the slaughter of Palestinians, mostly women and children and the continuing human rights violations by Nazi Israel.
Pete H: “Do not insult me and try and disregard my criticism of Jobbick by claiming I have communist sympathies.”
Your kind was Communists when it suited your purposes. I do not believe that many of those horrible, horrible Jewish monsters who murdered and tortured millions for Stalin cared one way or another about Marx and his garbage. Communism was a way for the likes of you to gain a disproportionate power over others and use it against innocent millions out of hate, material gains and love of power. You may not have believed in Marx’s Communist ideas but you embraced them for your evil purposes.
I believe that you are closer to the Nazis and everything we see in Nazi Israel shows that you believe in Jewish supremacy and your right to murder others, take their organs, use them for your own people or sell them in America. Yes, Communism was more of a façade for your people but Nazism is the real thing for you.
If you were not Nazis, just as bad as the German Nazis were, you would not try to take over Hungary. We will stop you Nazis.
Mark wrote:
[re: Jews] “selling their organs”…
Besides the ONE rabbi who *was* apparently involved in a smuggling ring in New Jersey (that was a very odd news story) what OTHER Jews are trafficking organs, Mark?
It gets kind of nauseating hearing the same conspiracy-theories over and over again without substantiation. Sure, there is a state of war in Israel/Gaza and there have been some very bad living conditions and atrocities on both sides. Agreed.
Now, if we are ever to believe another word you say (you’re starting behind the 8-ball unfortunately based on past experience w/you)…
Please kindly provide (real) evidence that there are numbers of Jews out there stealing organs. You read too many Hamas websites perhaps or Stormfront…
Not EVERYONE from Texas likes to kill Mexican immigrants just cause SOME people have actually DONE this. Would you like us to accuse ALL Texans/Americans of being Mexican-killers? I hope you see the logic, or lack of it.
Bystander@ So is not one rabbi enough? actually it was a whole network of the scum,look it up on whatreallyhappened.com or rensenews.com etc… and open your little eyes to the truth. PS the scum are apparently doing the same thing in Haiti right now!
Nice people these who harvest the organs of the goy.
Uh…. NO, one case or even a small group does NOT define a people, “dipshit”.
Otherwise I guess you Brits are just evil since YOU ALL invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. Or cause Jack the Ripper’s murders many years ago. Or because British murderer murderered a pair of ten-year-old girls in 2002.
You scum Brits should be wiped off the face of the earth I guess
@Ricsi/Mark
http://www.care2.com/news/member/876870911/1367096
http://www.fighthatred.com/then-and-now/swedens-largest-newspaper-israelis-kill-palestinians-to-steal-organs-for-transplant
online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704107204574470712953449876.html
Other than an Israeli mortician named Yehuda Hiss who admitted to selling off without permission, small parts like cornea/skin/etc of dead Israeli soldiers and some Palestinians to universities (obviously a bad person), I cannot find ANY substantiated claims that “Jews are organ thieves”. SHOW ME. The links above debunk the Swedish article that generated the crazed conspiracy-theorizing in the Muslim world. Then again, many of them believe that every Al Qaeda attack was an “inside job”, people never landed on the moon, and that KFC is formulated to sterilize minority populations.
Risci or Mark, do you care to take the ‘Pepsi Challenge’ and see if you can post just ONE… ONE *verifiable* example besides the two I already mentioned? (See rebuttals above before wasting our time).
Thanks, and sorry to any others here for the deviation again from Hungarian matters.
Bystander@Go ahead arsehole,Your shit tried to attack me,censor me,etc.. but guess what???? I am here:)
As for “brit” involvement in wars etc, yes it is just as sick as any war,but the fact that they went to war for zionist interests is what makes it really despicable.
Go to sleep scum for this is end of transmission…..
Yes, slink back in that hole till you come up with evidence before trying to slander an entire population.
One day it may come back upon *you*. If you believe half the “Christian” BS you post here and there, you should have a healthy fear of G-d… but of course you *don’t* cause you’re a liar; real Christians aren’t filled with hate from head to toe like you are, trying to incite anger against innocent people based upon what chromosomes they were born with.
I sure hope there IS a G-d because he might have a very very special place for people like you who go extremely far out of the way to hurt innocent people in the NAME of religion, like you do.
And don’t go pretending you’re secular here, then be all high, mighty, ‘n “Christian” in other venues. If I were you I’d start having a healthy fear of karma or G-d or whatever it is that makes hypocrites wish they had thought their lives through a little better.
Just my opinion. Enjoy the wrath, I say!
Bystander: “Besides the ONE rabbi who *was* apparently involved in a smuggling ring in New Jersey (that was a very odd news story) what OTHER Jews are trafficking organs, Mark?”
It was a group of Rabbi busted for organ trafficking. Mainstream American media had the details on the organ trafficking rabbis and a Swedish reporter had the details on Israelis cutting out the organs of Palestinians.
Do not destroy what little credibility you have by pretending that you do not know about these news stories.
Bystander: “Yes, slink back in that hole till you come up with evidence before trying to slander an entire population.”
I give you credit for being the only honest Jew here because you do not pretend to be German, Swedish, American, Irish or Hungarian. I value people who come at me straight. Maybe you will understand where I am coming from. I do not want Hungary to be ruled by Jews or anyone else. Hungary is for Hungarians. As long as the Israel and other foreign interests try to take over Hungary’s land and other resources, I see them as a threat to Hungary’s independence.
If Kun, Rakosi, Gero, Farkas, Apro, Bauer and the other horrible sadistic monsters were Martians and Hungary was still under the rule of Martians, I would consider the Martians my enemies. It is not about going after Jews and Israel but it is about defending Hungary from Jews, Israel and all the other global interest who want to turn Hungarians into slaves in their own country.
My massages to all enemies of an independent Hungary leave us alone and I will have no problem with you. Continue to oppress and exploit us and I will resist you with my last breath. I am not alone. We do not want to harm anyone but we will not let anyone harm our people either.
a Swedish reporter had the details on Israelis cutting out the organs of Palestinians.
Do not destroy what little credibility you have by pretending that you do not know about these news stories.
Mark at January 26, 2010 7:29 AM
—
No, Mark, you are the liar, again.
The Swedish reporter, Donald Boström, did *not* have “the details on Israelis cutting out the organs of Palestinians”.
Nowhere has Donald ever claimed that he had any proof on any organs stolen. It is all hearsay. Autopsied bodies are not itself a proof for that. The pictures Donald has published just shows dead autopsied bodies.
I knew Donald personally at the time he was in Gaza and I have no reason to doubt what he wrote, even if I think the article was not strong enough pointing out any proof.
My strongest critique against Donald was that he wrote it 17 years later, for me in an obvious try to get some publicity at the time of the New York-affair.
Read for yourself the officially approved translation into English of the original Swedish article:
-
http://www.aftonbladet.se/kultur/article5691805.ab
-
That the current Israeli Government reacted as it did is not in itself a proof for anything, more than they wanted to divert opinion from other bigger problems, like with the never ending settlements, and gather more support at home.
Mark is not making any problems for Israel, his BS is just gather support for them.
Getting the EU to open direct discussions with the Hamas would hurt Israel, but Jobbik do not want
My massages to all enemies of an independent Hungary leave us alone and I will have no problem with you. Continue to oppress and exploit us and I will resist you with my last breath. I am not alone. We do not want to harm anyone but we will not let anyone harm our people either.
Mark at January 26, 2010 7:47 AM
—
You would come home and give me some “massages” also?
Would you not like to return to Hungary before you take your last breath, because how can you do all this fighting from the US?
Because we who live in Hungary decide where it will be going, for no other reason we can always vote with our feet.
Your feet have obviously already voted, then you sit in the US and complaining about Jews and call Hungarian Quislings for ‘Patriots’.
As a Frontier country Hungary has *always* been open for outside influx and immigrants. Learn your own history and relax. If Hungary could survive for over a 1000 years, if will survive your occasional Jew and even a Swedish Viking.
A Swedish Viking who at least is doing something about the lowered population figures here in Hungary:
-
Hungary’s population declines further in Jan-Nov 09
1/26 11:12 (MTI)
-
Your desperate attempts to paint anyone who does not claim to be a Jobbik-supporter as a Jew, just shows that you have no real agenda but Jew-busting and plans for a ‘Juden-frei Zone’ in Hungary, beside the ‘Gypsy-free zone’ Mos-oi sang about in 1982.
You are not Hungarian, just another Neo-Nazi punk
Hungary treats its “minorities” far better than they deserve. Jews, gypsies, homosexuals and scandinavian expats enjoy the rapid deterioration of common decency and common sense in this country.
Hungary may have a future, but it ain’t pretty.
Once you believe that gays have the right to public display of obscenity, gypsies have the right to steal anything and terrorize people, jews have the right to do whatever they please, then you have a problem.
GLOSSARY for the less gifted, like Viking and his buddies:
Gypsy = the lowlife thieving sob type
Gay = the noisy, marching type, I don’t care about your sexual preference as long as you keep it private.
Jew = the zionazi, israeli flag waving type, and members of any jewish religious and other interest group
@Matt:
We have heard your opinions connected to other “names” here – at least you make your hatred obvious for everybody to see, you poor idiot!
Hell will freeze over before a Jewish Nazi lying about being a Swede is going to tell who is and who is not Hungarian.
Matt you xenophic, as long as you see jews,gypsies
and gays as “minorities”in hungary and not as
“hungarians” you are right Hungary will have a pretty rough time ahead….but what is new based
on hungarys historic choices.
Matt—nicely put!
Judas-Even the gypsies want to be called Roma and not Hungarians,so why would you expect Mark to call them what they themselves do not want to be,also why do most Hungarian jews have instant access to Israeli passports? are they not really Hungarian then ? just passing by like theives in the night perhaps.
As for gays,not even worth discussing such filth.
Ricsi wrote. °As for gays,not even worth discussing such filth. ”
Is this the official position of Jobbik too ?
It’s funny that Ricsi and Mark are both so against gays when clearly they are least “bunkmates”! Some of the most homophobic people I see around me are the ones who haven’t realized they are gay yet… seriously.
I’m starting to think that Ricsi supplies Mark with the cut/paste material (after shower-time perhaps) and occasionally has to later clarify since Mark doesn’t always seem to understand exactly what he’s saying.
One such example should be Mark’s memorable ditty “Hell will freeze over before a Jewish Nazi lying about being a Swede is going to tell who is and who is not Hungarian.”… well, look it up on the web, or use the links I already provided — the Swede story has been officially debunked all up and down the web, including the actual SWEDE journalist *himself* admitting he overstepped and had no evidence.
But I guess *facts* like this are kind of pesky to people like Ricsi and Tom, it gets in the way of the lying propaganda!
It really takes a set of deformed cojones to continue to use debunked data as “evidence” a few paragraphs down from the links rebutting it, but that’s how those people operate. They think people are dumb and will easily forget facts that refute their claims. Well, we’re not ALL stupid Ricsi and Mark.
BTW, who sleeps on the top bunk? I’m guessing Ricsi… seems like a “top”… then again I don’t know much about all that gay stuff… Not that there’s anything wrong with that! You GO people!
@ Bystander;
Actually, Mark was talking about Viking, that Swede and not the Journalist Swede.
Bystander, I do not recall ever having said anything about homosexuals, one way or another but since you decided to drag me into this, I do not care what adults do in the privacy of their homes, I may be disgusted by it but there are many things that I am disgusted by and take no public position on it. The disgusting displays Budapest residents have to endure during the annual homosexual demonstrations is another thing. I am totally opposed to such disgusting and sexually explicit displays especially those directed at the majority Christians and their fate. How would you like it if they did that in Israel and with your religion?
@ Mark;
Actually, Bystander admitted long ago, that he was from the good ol’e US of A!
He’s all yours!
Bystander: “BTW, who sleeps on the top bunk?”
Must you Jew Nazis turn every discussion into your perversion? Whenever you are unable to counter the facts, you start this ugly pervert junk. Why?
ricsi,
concerning roma .So what you say is if a group of people calls itself xyz they can not be hungarians?
concerning passports for jews: Israel has since
its establishment a law called “law of return”,
meaning a jew wanting to immigrate to Israel
gets a passport on arrival.
@judas
Your interest in the gypsies’ welfare is touching. Let me assure you that Hungarians do not wish to harm them but support them at great cost to needy Hungarians. Hungarians would prefer to have less gypsy crime and be able to harvest their own crops, not worry about their throats cut in their own home and such. I hope you can live with that.
Since you have such interest in our gypsies, may I ask why you are Israelis murder Palestinian babies by the hundreds, steal their crops, demolish their homes and cut out their organs for your use and profit?
Would it not be better if you started to treat the Palestinians with as much humanity as the Hungarians treat the gypsies?
OK. The gypsies are here in large numbers and are looking for a better deal.
But don’t forget the millions of poor Hungarians that are unemployed or, on low wages,because they need help too, and pretty damn quick.
Unemployment, review of the judicial system, policing methods, local coucil restructuring,
new constitution, and legislation passed that will remove the current polticians’ protection from prosecution act.
If Jobbik wants votes it needs to address these issues that directly impact on the ordinary voters.
Fidesz and the MSZP have failed, and failed, and failed, and will fail again. The people of Hungary deserve better but from where, and when, will change for the better appear?
Hell will freeze over before a Jewish Nazi lying about being a Swede is going to tell who is and who is not Hungarian.
Mark at January 26, 2010 4:27 PM
—
Is it not a bit colder than normal now in Hungary?
Not that Mark will notice that in the US (or is it Canada?), but maybe the freezing has maybe started?
God’s punishment is here?
The gypsies are here in large numbers
Hustings at January 27, 2010 7:13 PM
—
How many?
Only about 200.000 have declared themselves as ‘Roma’.
Hardly 2% of the total population in Hungary cannot be that big number?
@ Viking. You old Swedish seadog. Everything is under-declared in Hungary. You should know that by now. When did a gypsy last complete a consensus form? (Many can neither read nor write.)
In fact, when did any of us last complete a consensus form?
Fattening pigs, distilling palinka,chaining up dogs that bark all day and all night,ignoring neighbours, decrying everybody from the pope to the devil himself…am I dreaming or do I really live in a place where such things routinely take place?
Moonshine,
I like the idea of a “consensus form”, where can I get one?
census form. I know. My pathetic little joke.
You won’t get one, or even find one of these rockin’ horse shit papers this side of Galloping Goulash land.
So far sophist.
They (mostly students) will come out and ask you all those nice questions (and you better be home).
I heard from one who participated some training that they will have to accept the answers people give and not fill in what they want.
The example that was given was the Roma-case, meaning what ever the family declare themselves as, it is valid.
“Only about 200.000 have declared themselves as ‘Roma’.”
Sure, the rest are “Swede” or “German” or Irish or “Hungarian”…
Sure, the rest are “Swede” or “German” or Irish or “Hungarian”…
Mark at January 28, 2010 8:44 AM
—
Sure, if Mark can be ‘Hungarian’ any one can be.
If the students call nobody is at home. They are all away working in the UK, Germany, Italy and so on.
Agriculture is a very important part of Hungary’s economy. Trouble is, no fucker wants to work the land anymore.
So we get cheap tasteless imports via Tesco, Lidl,PennyMarket, and even our very own struggling uzletlanc, CBA.
The glorification of a land riddled with corruption,
millions out of work, ineffective justice system,
poor pay, widespread discontentment,antiquated schooling methods, beggars belief.
Census by consensus makes common sensus.
even our very own struggling uzletlanc, CBA
Moonshine at January 28, 2010 11:00 AM
—
CBA is a Hungarian supermarket chain with almost 5200 stores in these countries:
* Bulgaria
* Croatia
* Greece
* Hungary
* Italy
* Lithuania
* Malta
* Montenegro
* Poland
* Romania
* Serbia
* Slovakia
* Slovenia
-
So the anti-Globalization people in Jobbik must immediately attack the owners of this imperialistic retail-chain.
Complaining about foreigners is OK, but how about cleaning up in your own house first?
@Viking. Why bring Jobbik into the equation?
Tesco and CBA are two stores I avoid if possible. I vote with my feet.
Hungary and Hungarians need to concentrate on the things that will help them dig themselves out of the current economic debacle led by you know who. Here is a clue:“A city in Russia’s south is selling its bronze statue of Vladimir Lenin, the founder of the Soviet Union, as it can no longer afford the cost of repairs, Russian media reported on Wednesday.
The 14-tonne, balding figure has stood upright with one arm outstretched in the main square of Voronezh, But the city-owned company responsible for his upkeep has gone bankrupt, popular daily Komsomolskaya Pravda reported.”
The MSZP has already put in an offer.
@ moonshine;
Viking brought Jobbik into the equation, because that’s what Viking does. You could be talking about the weather and he would find an excuse to throw them in.
It is normally a lot of complaints on these pages about foreign companies starting business in Hungary. Normally those who complain the most do it in the name of anti-Globalisation as a principle.
Now when we had an example on a Hungarian company doing the same I wanted just to see if some one would defend the right of Hungarian companies to do the same thing abroad as foreign companies do in Hungary.
Especially the retail business is mentioned a lot here.
But no one wanted to defend these Hungarian companies, so I suppose they shut down their international business in the future.
There is a reason why my wife prefer Metro and Interspar before CBA and that is quality of the products. Just being Hungarian does not automatically mean that you will sell quality.