The current era of hectic, unpredictable and unreliable government decision-making is over, and one of partnership will arrive in Hungary, Fidesz chairman Viktor Orbán told MTI from Frankfurt after meeting leaders of the German Machine and Building Industry Federation on Wednesday.
Orbán said “I have told German investors to be patient and trustful and not to abandon Hungary. The business and public atmosphere will change greatly in Hungary and will move towards success, I hope, from April.”
Hungary must carry out major political and state reforms, tax cuts and phase out red tape, he said, adding that assessments of the Hungarian economy have worsened in recent years and Hungary has lost the position it held as the regional darling ten years ago.
Socialist Party spokesman István Nyakó responded that “Orbán is in fact the unpredictable factor for investors”, and Fidesz poses a special threat to the Hungarian economy, as it chases foreign capital away from Hungary.
Did István Nyakó make his statement from prison? The last I heard he was booted out of some of his positions and the prosecutors are hot on his trail. Is he under arrest yet? These Communists are being arrested in such large numbers that it is hard to keep up.
Once these politicians learn to keep their hands out of the till, also that we are part of the European Union (like it or not) and the free market and look to encourage investors of whatever persuasion we can start to move forward.
Any chance? Your call…
I described at some length what I consider beneficial investment and predatory investment. New industries, producing good with Hungarian workers and Hungarian materials would be beneficial investments. These beneficial investments are beneficial only if they do not get special breaks that Hungarian companies do not get and if they are taxed the same as Hungarian companies.
Predatory investments are those that purchase existing factories at below cost through bribery of Communist MSZP/SZDSZ officials, dismantle, and discharge the workers to eliminate the competition for their foreign made products. These are not investments but corrupt exploitive schemes. They should be given the boot.
Under no circumstances should foreigners be allowed to purchase Hungarian farmland.
@Mark – it is a good thing you are not in any position to influence investment or economic policy. The country would crumble before your eyes if your views were implemented..
I guess Mercedes, Audi, Suzuki are all investments which should be booted out because Hungarian companies didn’t get the same benefits as they did.
Which Hungarian companies had the same capabilities, or could have created the same economic benefits. None!
I helped a company from my country to buy a Hungarian company in 95. The Hungarian company was bankrupt, had crap technology and produced outdated products which no one wanted. The govt was happy to offload the entire firm and wash their hands. The company brought in new technology, equipment, capital and expertise. The company now employs 700 workers (at least 1/3 of whom are Roma), and has never been as profitable.
We are still waiting for your answer to Viking as to which foreign company closed their competitive operations in Hungary to shift the production overseas.
“Under no circumstances should foreigners be allowed to purchase Hungarian farmland.” I assume this also means people like Mark who are not Hungarian citizens.
And, Mark as a US citizen, or even if he has kept is Hungarian citizenship, will not be able to vote in the Hungarian elections this Spring, then you need to be a resident inside the Republic of Hungary’s borders
So you can ask yourself why he is doing all this Jobbik-promo
“I helped a company from my country to buy a Hungarian company in 95.”
I would ask whom you bribed if I believed your story. The usual case is that the Hungarian company is dismantled to eliminate the domestic competition and bring in foreign products.
If you give me the name of the company, I can find out if you are lying or telling the truth. Based on your previous posts, I assume that you are lying.
Everything will have to be reviewed going back to 1989.
Mark is right, before we foreigners came along this place was like Tír na nÓg. People didn’t get old, there was no common cold and salmon happily lept from the Danube onto your waiting BBQ, babies laughed as they were born and….
I would ask whom you bribed if I believed your story
Mark at February 5, 2010 8:26 AM
—
Mark, I actually paid bribes to come into an Hungarian business, that was in 1998 (does Orban come to mind)?
We bought the BonBon Hemmingway part of a certain place
We paid the Hungarian CEO under the table to be able to by it from BonBon Hemmingway in Hungary, who had originally bought the place from either Budapest City or the Hungarian State or some Public owned company. That was way before we got involved
We assume that the Hungarian CEO shared the money with his US CEO in Hungary, but we never met that person
The only one that was swindled was BonBon Hemingway in Hungary, not the Hungarian State or public etc. Just another US investor obviously not having enough control. Maybe they did a good deal in the end, maybe not
BonBon Hemmingway had bout up several places in Budapest and they launched a few places under their own name, some other places they just got and did not know what to do with
The place we bought and invested in total 10 times more to renovate than we originally paid to buy it, is still alive and trying hard to survive in the current crisis
About 10 other places around it has closed in the last year. It only survives because I sponsor it for the last 12 months, then catering business in Budapest is under the ice at the moment
But that is us “blood-sucking foreign investors” we just keep sucking…
Murky – once again, you’re off the mark.
Unlike many Hungarians who got things for a song, I didn’t have to pay anything. Read again, the company was crap, and no one (including Hungarians & American) was buying their outdated products, and the company was bankrupt. The foreign investor was not desperate to buy anything in Hungary since it could sell into Hungary anyway.
They chucked out the old equipment, new equipment was brought in, and with imported expertise, the Hungarian company was competitive for another decade. It has grown to providing services, and now even includes 2 MNCs from W.Europe as customers.
Where did I lie in previous posts? You have still yet to name any competitive Hungarian company which shut its operations to import stuff from overseas.
Cur. Geo.
” You have still yet to name any competitive Hungarian company which shut its operations to import stuff from overseas”
Philip Morris Hungary, RJRenolds Hungary and Imperial Tobacco all did this, shortly after Hungary joined the EU. Only BAT continues to produce in Hungary because of the scale of its Hungarian operations. I’m sure this happened in lots of industries other than tobacco.
@Sophist – You may be right! However, the question is, were those companies in Hungary competitive?
From my experience, the past 10-15 years has changed the way companies operate. MNC’s and even SME’s all look at a large region, or the world as their market – hence any individual countries operations are considered in line with a much bigger perspective.
Ultimately, the question of competitiveness comes in, and those countries which can be regionally or globally competitive (ie produce higher value – be it economies of scale, scope, support activities and value added activities) get to keep their local operations. As costs increase, there is no other choice, but to increase competitiveness, productivity (& value addition) from the workforce. This is how Japan, Sweden, France, the US and many developed countries have been able to survive despite higher costs. My own country is getting paranoid about our increasing costs and the impact on our competitiveness as our competition is now, not just our neighbours, but from much further away, not to mention China & India.
I can think of very few companies whereby competitive operations were shut down, and none were in Hungary. I am not familiar with the tobacco industry, but I’m just curious if the closure had do to with expectations of future EU legislation, and a diminishing market size in Europe which required local operations to serve a global customer base.
currently fidesz politicians are conducting
rounds of serious meetings with representatives
of foreign governments to convince them of the advantages their respective investors might have
by asking them first when intending to invest in hungary.(Mayors,district mayors,politicians)
One wonders why?Or better to say : Same methods like under current government.
It is no secret that real-estate companies from
ireland,spain,austria,germany,israel had to pay
under the table to receive building rights,purchase permissions,land conversion approvals etc.It is further no secret that a number of foreign owned ,with local management,
companies lost their rights and properties via
very dubios legal operations in hungary.
This happened under Fidesz governments and happens
now too. The system is rotten,not transparent and will stay like this even under the next fidesz
government.One only has to spent a morning
drinking coffee in the “melange-vienna-cafe” in
the rozsakert shopping mall.Your eyes and ears will rotate.
Philip Morris Hungary, RJRenolds Hungary and Imperial Tobacco all did this, shortly after Hungary joined the EU
Sophist at February 5, 2010 11:49 AM
—
As Curios George points out, the tobacco industry is maybe not the best example of this, then there were other factors, like how fun is it to produce tobacco inside the EU?
The other question with the tobacco industry, do we really want tobacco products to be produced or even sold in Hungary?
But please come up with other examples.
I have a few ‘otherway’ examples:
* Electrolux closed a factory in Sweden some years ago and moved production to Lehel. At least 70 people were fired in Sweden
.
* My old department in Ericsson Sweden has moved down to Hungary a few years ago. This led to several being fired
–
So if the Jobbik-policy had already been in place some Swedes would have been more happy?
Or the investments just had gone somewhere else, like Slovakia?
Does the Slovakian Nationalists actually have the same anti-foreign policy, or they are just satisfied with bashing Hungarians?
Like ‘stealing’ foreign investments from Hungary?
Stamp out corruption and get some politicians
that can think and develop strategies for the benefit of Hungary and Hungarians.
Jobbik are definitely gaining ground but personally I think a lot of their policies are flawed. Trade issues for a start.
Investment has to be encouraged from whatever source. New business, commerce, trade, etc should benefit us all. In theory, anyway.
I look and listen with incredulity to some of the
crude and cobbled together options being put forward as policy by many parties.
It only goes to reaffirm that Hungary simply goes from one economic and political crisis with gay abandon.
@Mark
Why shouldn’t foreigners be allowed to buy farmland in Hungary? If we use the land in a constructive and more profitable way than the current owners, why shouldn’t we be encouraged to help sustain the agricultural and food processing sector here? And also to help get as much money as possible out of the Common Agricultural Policy barrel (if the French and Italians can milk it for all it’s worth, so can we if we’re really clever).
Not all foreigners are out to rape Hungary Mark, despite what some would have you and others believe. In fact, not many foreigners are out to rape Hungary at all. Some of us just want to set up a small business that’ll employ us and some other folks and bring more money into the country via exports. Is that such a terrible thing?
@ Mark;
I understand where your distrust stems from, and can appreciate your protective attitude towards Hungary and wanting to see this country thrive. To me though, foreign investment, can and is, a win-win situation not only for the country that hosts the investor; but, also for the investors themselves, if the playing field has not been skewed.
In my opinion, there in lies the problem. One can not go about blaming these investors alone, if the scenario has been set up as such, that a “few” people benefit by lining their pockets ( Politicians) and not the country as a whole.
I also agree with what PiP posted, not every foreign investor is out to “get” Hungary.
I personally do not like Orban and am distrustful of his intent. That being said, hopefully Hungarians are fed up enough to start paying more attention to what their Politicians are doing and start putting the screws to them by becoming politically active.
@justasking. You are one of the few people I respect on this site and you always uphold your point of view with sound argument.
Foreign investment is essential to ensure Hungary’s economic growth.
PiP is also correct when he says foreigners are
not out to “screw” Hungary. We leave that to the MSZP and Fidesz. They are making a great job of it already.
There are some massive projects in the pipeline that are going to hav a profound influence on the Hungarian economic landscape…depending on how the government of the day handles things.
People must put pressure on the politicians to
make sure, as justasking rightly says, that they pull their socks up and start
doing a proper job for which they are more than adequately rewarded
Thanks, PiP and QC!
To those who really don’t get it:
Hungary has only two options. Either leave the EU, which would be difficult and diastrous for many people (not the rest of the EU, they wouldn’t mind) or accept, that the EU is one big country/matket/economy/state, where no local government is allowed to difeferentiate between inhabitants of one “province” like Hungary or another like “Austria” in the long run.
Of course there are some exceptions, but only temporary. Any discrimination against “foreigners” coming from another part of the EU is forbidden.
It would be like telling people from Budapest they can not buy land or do business here in Zala county …
If Hungary wants to enjoy the advantages like free travel and free business – they also have to allow people from other parts of the EU to work, do business, own land …
I don’t know if Jobbik really prefers the alternative of leaving the EU, don’t think they’re that crazy. Of course the jobos here might want it …
QC;
I have to admit you have taken me by surprise, and I thank you for what you said.
I read a comment from the Premier of Alberta, that I feel, fits Hungary and the Mako Project to a tee. He said ” Energy development is a partnership between Albertans, who OWN the resources and industry, which DEVELOPS them on Albertan’s behalf.
As I had said to Farkas Laci in the past regarding the Mako Project, allow foreign investers; but, always make sure, the Hungary has the control not the other way around.
As I had said to Farkas Laci in the past regarding the Mako Project, allow foreign investers; but, always make sure, the Hungary has the control not the other way around
justasking at February 5, 2010 8:13 PM
—
Or should it be the ‘locals’?
A Government in Budapest is rather far away from the people in and around the Mako fields, who has to take all the disadvantages, while the Government in Budapest makes all kind of profit out of it
.
I would assume the situation is the same in Alberta and that the Premier of Alberta is not having his villa in the middle of the field to be explored?
http://www.storyofstuff.com/
http://www.storyofstuff.com/capandtrade/
@ Viking;
Okay, Okay, I give. What do you want Viking? Obviously from that retarded question that you directed towards me, you know shit about this Industry
Would you like me to explain to you how the Oil and Gas Industry works? Explain royalties to you? What exactly would you like to know?
What do you want Viking? Obviously from that retarded question that you directed towards me, you know shit about this Industry
justasking at February 5, 2010 9:54 PM
—
Yes, I am the “retarded” one
If we are so interested in that some group of people get part of the profits, on this web-site they are called the ‘Hungarians’, should we not analyse what that group consist off?
Through the history of Hungary it has been a sharp distinction between the ‘Rich and Famous’ and mostly foreign-oriented people in Budapest and the rest of the ‘Hungarians’, who have felt more and more distant from the ideals and ‘going-ons’ in Budapest, the more to the east these ‘Hungarians’ lived
In a sense this is not, as usual, a Hungarian Thing, it is rather common world over
One can see the NATO Radar-Tower at Tubes outside Pecs as a typical example of that. The National Politicians sitting in Budapest thinks that is a very good place for it. The locals do not
I am just trying to put some reality in the Mako Project and the reality is, when the shit hits the fan, if it ever does, and there will actual be more than just a few test-drills (which have already pissed off the locals with complaints on trespassing and damages on crops and fields), there will be a lot of local resentment
This high and mighty ‘in the interest of Hungary’ has another tone to it, out of Budapest around the fields of the Mako Project
Therefore any such project will never be a ‘National’ question, it will always be ‘Local’
@ Viking;
Here’s your bedtime story, so go grab your teddy bear.
Once upon a time, there was this beautiful country, in the centre of Europe called Hungary. This country was blessed by God. Because he loved the Magyar people so much, he deposited a huge plume of Natural Gas. Because God wanted this gift to be appreciated, he made it a little difficult to extract; but, not impossible. Although, the exact amount of this reserve is yet unknown, it is SPECULATED to be a major windfall.
Oh, how the Magyar people danced and sang, then sang and danced some more. Here finally, was an opportunity to catapult the Magyar people into the lime light where God had always wanted them to be. This opportunity would not be squandered, like some opportunities had in the past. No, the Magyar people pulled together, as they did in 1956. So they stormed Parliament, and captured all the thieving, lying,sons-of-bitches, that had resided there for far to long and threw them all in jail on corruption charges. They than installed honest and true Politicians that cared about ALL Hungarians equally. The wealth was distributed fairly to all Hungarians. The locals, benefitted a little more from all of this, for their once dying little corner of Hungary was now abuzz with people moving into the area for work. This flood of money that was shunted into the local economy, combined with the ustainable practices of the Oil Companies, had people not minding the Gas refinery in the FAR distance.TheEnd
It should be obvious now to everyone that the jobo outsiders (mark, bob, law, justasking and so on) are not really interested in Hungary and its people – they use it as a kind of screen where they project their feelings and fears, hate and whatever exists in their crippled minds.
A psychologist would probably jump for joy to find these subjects in his/her clinic …
I just wish they would leave this site alone – maybe someone could ask a site like Hungarianambience to take them in as contributors.
BTW: It also is very interesting, what kind of selective reporting from Hungary and the rest of the world Hungo-shittance produces – more food for psychology studies …
For example:
The only post on Germany in the last 4 weeks was
“German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle arrives in Japan with his partner on his side
Saturday, January 16, 2010″
the important thing for jobos: the partner is male!
The last (and only ?) post on Russia was
Russian bombers fly patrols over Pacific
Friday, January 22, 2010
That’s what is important for them – besides Jobbik of course …
@ Wolfie;
Your not faking it are you? You really are that stupid. Shocking!
@Curious George: “My own country…”
A country you are so ashamed that you refuse to identify. We have a number Jews who are ashamed of what they are and parade as something else but it seems that you are not a Jew but from all indications, there is enough to be ashamed about your country and your culture that you want to keep it a secret. I am sure that you have very good reasons. Enough said about you and your country.
@Murk – Top of the day to you! Ashamed? Wrong again.
We’ve seen you attack anyone who has identified their country/origins before even debating (are you even capable?) the validity of their posts. You’ve shown your almost total lack of real knowledge about Sweden, German, Ireland, Palestine, Indian, Turkey, Kurdistan, & Israel (not to mention Hungary). Are you still in high school, or do you live in a cave?
Anyway, there’s 10 times more Hungarians who live in my country, that we do over here. Funny thing, innit?
@Viking – your ‘otherway’ examples are all too true!
For more than 2 decades, my country has been encouraging ‘otherway’ investments in industries which we knew would die out in the long run – eg textiles, furniture, footwear.
We knew we couldn’t compete with Egypt, Turkey, China & India on costs. Also, it would take us a generation to do what Italy, Japan, Denmark could with style, design and technology. We helped our companies to look at strategic partnerships, and sometimes also financed overseas investments so that they could continue such operations outside our country by leveraging on complimentary resources in other countries. Essentially, we were exporting local jobs (sometimes even to jobos).
I am sure that you have very good reasons why you are ashamed of your country, your culture and your customs. You are right that I will bring up the shortcomings of countries from which people come here and spew their hatred of Hungarians. Jews that call Hungarians Nazis need to be reminded of Jewish Communists who murdered millions for Stalin and the horrors of racist Nazi Israel.
Yes, those who criticize others should have clean hands and those who criticize the politics of others should be prepared to defend their own country’s politics and customs. You are a coward who is ashamed of his country while criticizing others.
@Murkybrain:
Which is “your” country, that you defend so much ?
Why is it “your” country ?
@Murkybrain (thanks Wolfi- I like that).
But then, we don’t really think you’re Hungarian 
(
You’ll never understand that most of us don’t hate Hungarians. We just hate you
Van has made Hungary his home. Wolfi & Viking are married to Hungarians. They’d hardly marry someone they hate. Oh wait – Morvai married to a Jew! Damn, there goes my theory. Saaay, you sure you don’t have a Jewish wife? Bet you have something in common with Morvai’s husband, though!!!
You are right about one thing – I’m not a Jew. But I do have a Jewish partner, and 2 of my nephews are IDF-trained soldiers. Oh yeah, and I do think you are a Nazi, though not Hungarian. Come to think of it, you do seem to have shades to Commies Red!
@Poof George
Well your nephews are more then likely gay so
hopefully if they get shot during action we have the
scenario 2 birds with one stone.
@Impolite:
Hey, you hate gays too – you’re in good company with lawless and the rest of the jobo Nazis …
If you really want to get turned on, look at this jobo favorite:
http://www.hungarianambiance.com/2010/01/german-foreign-minister-guido.html
@Law – what action are you talking about? About them being gay, I’ll take your word for it (being an expert and all).
Here’s your bedtime story, so go grab your teddy bear.
Once upon a time…
…
…TheEnd
justasking at February 5, 2010 11:00 PM
—
zzzzZZZZZZZZzzzzz
Oh, it is already morning?
I think I fell asleep around that part with the:
“They than installed honest and true Politicians that cared about ALL Hungarians equally”
justasking and FL.
I have a huge amount of information on the Mako
gas field project.
I believe investigations started ten years ago.
The latest is that prospects are very “rosy” and its more a matter of the costs of “accessing” the gas and distribution etc… logistics and economics.
There is to be a very interesting meeting next month among interested parties in which some telling revelations will be made.
I do not want to say too much more on the subject
on this particular site.
I would only like to add further that I will
send further info to Farkas László if I can find an alternative means of mailing.
Leave it with you FL.
@ QC;
Great, you talk in tongues! Just one quick question…Who owns the mineral rights when land is purchased in Hungary for exploration by Oil and Gas companies?
@ FL;
You better share whatever QC is supplying to you. How are we going to do this?
@Viking;
It’s okay honey that you fell asleep before the end of the story, Mummy will just keep reading it to you til something “clicks”. I know, it might take years; but, thats how much you are loved.
Dear QC, Zsuzsa and all concerned:
I appreciate very much all the information that the various members of our community can shed on the Makó gas project. The subject is of such vital importance to the economy and future of the nation that I believe that should anyone have any important information, it should be presented here or in some other public forum for the enlightment of all. I have done some earlier writing about it on another thread:
http://www.politics.hu/20091117/orbans-energy-independence-pledge-just-a-bunch-of-hot-air#c41
Production is due to commence in 2012, midway through the ministerial term. It therefore should be a major election issue! ALL the parties should have something to say about it. In case the electorate and their often bumbling leaders need a prompting, here are some vital questions that I put forth in that thread, and which I will repost here: (feel free to add other questions as well!)
(cont)
“This raises economic and political questions of the utmost importance:
1)What will be the effect on the nation’s GDP over 30 years?
2)How will this windfall be taxed?
3)How will that tax money be spent?
4)What kind of tax policy and incentives are appropriate in this case?
5)How can public and govt policy affect research and development, plant construction and further exploration?
6)What kind of “trickle down” effect or economic multiplier ripples be expected?
7)How will the private sector spend the proceeds?
8)What impact will this have on the job and real estate market, especially in S.E Hungary?
9)How can these gas revenues be employed to improve our infrastructure, education and other economic capacity?
Last but not least,
10)How can we profit from this as individuals?”
=================================================
If Hungarians aren’t asking these questions right now, then they are “asleep at the switch” and need to wake up! While were at it, let’s make sure the politicians are awake as well.
I furthermore wish to suggest to Erik that we dedicate an open, moderated forum, headed by a panel of guests representing MOL, Exxon, a govt minister, an EU rep and representatives of the various political parties about the Makó project.
The discussion should proceed at a predetermined and announced time. My own suggestion would be to have questions forwarded to a moderator, who would then select the ones that are the most on topic and succinct to the panel. Nothing should be off the table of discussion, provided the questions are relevant, concise and worded in a way that is not discourteous to our guests. (The normal flamming that goes on around here I think would be inappropriate.)
Should such an event be hosted here, and I do feel it should be done, various members of the press can also be invited to put forth their own questions.
I ask wholeheartedly for the support of our community in going forth with such a discussion.
@Curious and wolfie
I am not interested in getting down in the gutter with your ilk especially when you have no clue but it is gratifying to know that you are ashamed of what you are. That is good enough for me.
FYI, there are only Nazis in Israel, Zionazis. They represent everything Hitler and his Nazis represented and some more. Congratulations…
FYI, there are only Nazis in Israel, Zionazis. They represent everything Hitler and his Nazis represented and some more
Mark at February 6, 2010 6:00 PM
—
And the Nazis in the SS-division, which retreat from Budapest you want to remember on February 11, were not Germans of course?
And their Hungarian helpers in the Arrow Cross units, were also not Nazi, just even more ‘Hungarian Patriots’?
Your pro-Nazi-Jobbik is showing its ugly face before the election
The rest of Europe thanks you for that
You have verified the ‘missing link’ between Jobbik and Neo-Nazis in Europe
Keep up the good work, the reward is scheduled to arrive on April 12
@Murkybrain – “I am not interested in getting down in the gutter”.
NB Mark – Your “Indian child molester” remark in Dec. represented the gutter in this website. If you’ve found your cojones and you’re up to it, I can renew my offer.