Far-right party Jobbik has expelled executive committee member Tibor Gombos from its chapter in Vámospércs, eastern Hungary after it emerged that he was convicted for the murder of his wife and sentenced to a 19-year prison term in 1981. His wife died in suspicious circumstances during a family holiday to Poland.
Jobbik party director Gábor Szabó said Gombos had concealed his criminal record.
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Tax-fraudster, convicted murderers and high-ranking members arrested for logistic support (supplying illegal ammunition) to a terrorist organisation
The list of prominent Jobbik-members having a problem with the law is getting bigger by the day
Not a problem for Law and his ilk though
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Was it not something about Jobbik using Mafia-methods collecting money in Gyöngyös in the week-end?
I just saw something on the TV-news and Gábor Zázrivecz (aka Vona) was interviewed, but he refused to give any comments
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How does Bob count that in his TV-stats?
A) A person joins a party by lying about having a criminal record. The lie is discovered. They are immediately expelled.
Please explain why this is a scandal.
B) I take the time to link to official figures, that are taken from the ORTT, this Viking, is the Országos Rádió és Televízió Testület, or the state broadcasting regulator.
Please explain how such figures turn into “my TV stats”?
Please explain why this is a scandal.
bobscountrybunker at March 8, 2010 2:51 PM
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Neither my post or the article mentions the word ‘scandal’
I do not think it is a ‘scandal’, but it shows what type of people is drawn to Jobbik
It is no ‘scandal’, it is not even a ‘secret’, just some simple facts
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The TV-stats, I could care no less about, but I am not complaining about it
I just argued: now when Gábor Zázrivecz (aka Vona) *was* interviewed on TV, his only comment was ‘No Comment’
That does not up Jobbik’s % in the TV-stats
Maybe Gábor Zázrivecz (aka Vona) should actually make some comments instead of complaining about that the % is too low in the TV-stats
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Or is this part of the Jobbik ‘Mouse-tactic’, just complaining on no coverage and making no comments?
@Viking
> supplying illegal ammunition) to a terrorist
> organisation
First of all: the guy resigned right away and denies all allegations. Plus, to the best of my knowledge, under Hungarian law everyone is innocent until proven guilty. There is no proof that any of the accused people in that organization committed any ‘terrorist’ activity. By the way, if you and some of the politicians of these so-called ‘civilized countries’ are so quick denouncing some desperate people’s acts as ‘terrorism’ how is it possible that it was OK for the Irgun to blow up buildings and kill innocent people? Oh, that was different, wasn’t it? Why is that? Why cannot Hungarians have their own Irgun if they want to? Oh because Hungarians are the ‘guilty nation’? Why is it that nobody says a word about Demszky and his branch stealing over 5 billion dollars in the last 20 years from Budapest alone? And why is that when someone dares to stand up against these criminals, they are declared as ‘terrorists’? How is it possible that Draskovics was not fired right away after the ‘evidence’ he presented against these ‘terrorists’ were proved to be fake?
> he refused to give any comments
Why is it possible that any other party is asked about their program instead of the crimes that they committed?
> Jobbik-members having a problem with the law is
> getting bigger by the day
Why do not YOU and your comrades talk about the MSZP and Fidesz members having problems with the law for a change? I am listening.
Now before anyone misunderstands my position and label me as a ‘terrorist’ supporter, I want to make sure that anyone who reads this understands very clearly: I do denounce any form of terrorism and violence regardless where it comes from and what the reasons are for it. I brought up the example about Irgun in my previous post to shed the light on the double standard that anyone can experience in the ‘civilized’ world. So, in my opinion, it is NOT OK to solve problems and ‘fight for freedom’ as Irgun did back then the way they did it. It is also NOT OK what many Arabs or other nationalities do (blowing up themselves to kill innocent people)today even though they do not seem to have any other choice. Killing is NEVER OK because it is against humanity and natural law. Labeling people who try to uncover the lies and dirty crimes of corrupt politicians (as Budahazy and his associates were trying to do) as terrorists is a despicable act. Hopefully, those who label today will stand in front of the independent court and put into jail tomorrow.
@Viking
> supplying illegal ammunition) to a terrorist
> organisation
First of all: the guy resigned right away and denies all allegations. Plus, to the best of my knowledge, under Hungarian law everyone is innocent until proven guilty
…
Why is it that nobody says a word about Demszky and his branch stealing over 5 billion dollars in the last 20 years from Budapest alone?
Roamerw1970 at March 8, 2010 4:48 PM
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Yes, why do not “everyone is innocent until proven guilty” apply to Demszky?
Where are the proofs on Demszky’s involvement?
He is not in pre-detention jail, but the Jobbik Bicske guy is
.
If we look at the Hagyo Miklos case (MSZP BKV), he did resign rather fast and was now excluded, so using your logic, how can he then be guilty of what he has been accused off?
Hagyo also claimed to be innocent
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In the end of the day, it is up to everyone what they believe in;
* either you believe in that a person that the Police has arrested is more likely to be ‘guilty’ than a person not (yet) arrested
When Hagyo and Demsyky get arrested, then I will ‘up’ my opinion that they are more likely to have done what they are accused off, until that time they seem to have totally lost control over their organisation and should pay the political price for that in the next election, in October
Well Hagyo has already left politics, so he ‘fell on his sword’ even if he still claims to be innocent (which I do not need to believe is the ‘truth’, like in the case with the Jobbik-Bicske guy)
@Viking
> Where are the proofs on Demszky’s involvement?
> He is not in pre-detention jail, but the Jobbik > Bicske guy is
Where is the real, true, credible proof of the Bicske guy’s involvement? As a matter of fact no proof was shown to the accused as of yet (besides the fake one that Draskovics should have resigned for). Yet they are in sitting in jail for no apparent reason for almost one year other than the rulers of the regime wished them to be there. They are sitting in there because fearmongering works and since there was a precedent with Guantanamo, the ruling regime in Hungary felt they have the right to create a Hungarian Guantanamo as well.
> they seem to have totally lost control over
> their organisation
Do you still believe in fairy tales? You actually seriously believe that Demszky did not know anything about his comrades’ dirty businesses? You may remember Oliver North who took the responsibility during the famous Iran contra scandal in the US in which president Reagan ‘interestingly’ proved to be ‘innocent’ because he ‘did not know’. Demszky is no president Reagan and he will go in front of a truly independent court with the rest of his buddies.
> If we look at the Hagyo Miklos case (MSZP BKV),
> he did resign rather fast and was now excluded
That guy is used as THE scapegoat. His comrades think that sacrificing him alone would let the rest of them go free. Oh no. He is only the tip of the iceberg and a lot more will happen in the next few months.
@Viking
> using your logic, how can he then be guilty of > what he has been accused off
Using YOUR logic how can he NOT be guilty? If they keep those people in jail for no apparent reason, but only because someone decided to put them in there by declaring them terrorists, then following this logic, Demszky, Gyurcsany, Bajnai, Gergenyi, Csintalan, Simicska, Pinter and the rest of their buddies should be put in jail because there is reasonable suspicion that they committed very serious crimes and their freedom would be dangerous for the rest of the hard working Hungarian people. Would not this be a fair solution? Just to avoid double standards because the law applies to everyone. Or maybe the Budahazy people should be let go until real evidence can be found against them? I am just following your and the Hungarian regime’s logic. Budahazy may or may not be innocent, but one thing is for sure: he had a crucial role in getting the Sukoro deal uncovered and most likely the regime decided to put him aside for good (just like in the good old 50s under comrade Rakosi).
> In the end of the day, it is up to everyone
> what they believe in
This one I agree with you. Question is: what do YOU believe in? I believe in democracy, real freedom (not the kind of ‘freedom’ that the US tries to impose on the rest of the world) and human dignity. President Roosevelt proposed a second Bill of Rights right before his death. Unfortunately, it never got accepted. It is in Jobbik’s program. Read it
@Viking
FYI: Roosevelt’s Second Bill of Rights
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bill_of_Rights
Jobbik’s English Language manifesto:
http://jobbik.com/temp/Jobbik-RADICALCHANGE2010.pdf
Have a good day and have a good reading. Please do not hesitate to ask any questions you may have after reading these.
@Viking
> Where are the proofs on Demszky’s involvement?
> He is not in pre-detention jail, but the Jobbik > Bicske guy is
Where is the real, true, credible proof of the Bicske guy’s involvement? As a matter of fact no proof was shown to the accused as of yet (besides the fake one that Draskovics should have resigned for). Yet they are in sitting in jail for no apparent reason for almost one year other than the rulers of the regime wished them to be there
Roamerw1970 at March 9, 2010 3:41 AM
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@Viking
> using your logic, how can he then be guilty of > what he has been accused off
Using YOUR logic how can he NOT be guilty?
Roamerw1970 at March 9, 2010 4:29 AM
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There is one main reason why no evidence has been presented in any case (Budahazy and BKV):
* There is no court-case yet, evidence is presented in the court, not in the media
.
Before any case goes to court, what we know is just rumours and what the Police/Prosecution/Defence Lawyers want us to believe
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In difference from the US, where you seem to live, the Hungarian Police can hold suspects in pre-trial detention, while still investigating, so there can be a considerable time before the accused go before trial
Personally I find this time to be too long in Hungary, but that has nothing to do with Budahazy in specific, it is a general comment
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How would read some political documents prove any guilt/no guilt in these cases?
We speak criminal, not political, trials
> Before any case goes to court, what we know is > just rumours and what the Police/Prosecution
> /Defence Lawyers want us to believe
That’s right. So why is it that all the politician criminals that I listed previously are not in jail based on some ‘rumors’ as the political prisoners are? Why is the double standard? Why are you siding with this system that oppresses certain people’s freedom while leaves others alone (even though there are only rumors going around about their guilt)?
> How would read some political documents prove
> any guilt/no guilt in these cases?
Reading them will not prove guilt or innocence in any way by itself and it was not my intention to prove people’s innocence or guilt especially to those who side with the current regime at all costs. When I decided to share these documents my intention was to have anyone who call themselves democrats and humanists, but support this current regime to take a look and realize that they are standing on the wrong side. After reading these, an intelligent person would come to the conclusion that supporting this regime is totally wrong. I am not here to lecture anyone and that is why I recommended the reading. Because in my opinion, after reading these documents one’s perception on things can radically change. Now, I am not naive and I know that most likely it will have no effect at all, but my conscience would feel better that at least I tried to open some intelligent people’s eyes who I think are on the wrong side.
@Viking
> evidence is presented in the court, not in the
> media
Really? So what about Benko’s ‘evidence’ that he presented in the media just right before the election? This ‘evidence’ was around since April last year. Why is the timing? Why did not they present this ‘evidence’ to THEM sooner? Oh, maybe because the ruling regime wants to manipulate the masses again and wants to create a great fearmongering campaign that works very well since September 11? I love when these rulers think that people are complete idiots and would still believe in their lies.
> Personally I find this time to be too long in
> Hungary
Personally I believe that holding anyone against his/her will without any evidence presented to them for more than 72 hours is against human dignity and natural law and this ‘Hungarian law’ (legalizing political imprisonment) must be expunged.
> We speak criminal, not political, trials
Budahazy’s trial is a political trial and there is mounting evidence that the police totally mishandled the case and acted on political instructions. I highly recommend watching the video about the Hungarian Guantanamo here (hopefully you know Hungarian to understand it):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDYoCOb2eJY&feature=player_embedded
The good old communist mentality came back. And you are actually supporting these guys? Unless you are a paid troll, it is hard for me to imagine why an intelligent person like you would do that.
why is it that all the politician criminals that I listed previously are not in jail based on some ‘rumors’ as the political prisoners are? Why is the double standard? Why are you siding with this system that oppresses certain people’s freedom while leaves others alone (even though there are only rumors going around about their guilt)?
Roamerw1970 at March 9, 2010 7:23 PM
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Did I write ‘evidence is a rumour’?
No, I wrote:
“There is one main reason why no evidence has been presented in any case (Budahazy and BKV):
* There is no court-case yet, evidence is presented in the court, not in the media”
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“the political prisoners”, as you put it, are *not* in jail, they are in pre-trial detention, which is a legal term you should look up
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By defining Budahazy and his co-arrested as “political prisoners” you have already done all the work for the Police, Prosecution and the Court. You must be a very talented person
May I assume you study at the same University as ‘elle/sophie/tunde’?
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You are welcomed to give an example on *any* country/system that does not “oppresses certain people’s freedom”
I cannot find any country in the world, today or ever in history that did not do that
Any system tries to suppress the people that want to overthrow it, it is the most common denomination of all systems regardless what political etiquette you put on it
That is why the Republic of Hungary has both Secret Police and a Constitutional Court, or whatever you call that in the US
@Viking
> evidence is presented in the court, not in the
> media
Really? So what about Benko’s ‘evidence’ that he presented in the media just right before the election? This ‘evidence’ was around since April last year. Why is the timing?
Anonymous at March 9, 2010 7:55 PM
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I can only speculate that the timing is because of the elections, but that is just me
It is still not ‘evidence’ until presented in a court of law
At the moment it is just ‘rumours’, then any defendants to these ‘evidence’ in the media has not been able to defend themselves, then these ‘evidence’ has not been presented in any court of law
If it does not go to a court of law, well then it was just speculations and unsubstantiated claims
I am waiting for the trial
@ Bob
“Jobbik party director Gábor Szabó said Gombos had concealed his criminal record”
Does not look good for a party to have murderers attracted to it. I agree the right thing to do was to get rid of him.
Checking people’s criminal records before they are accepted into any leadership roles in a political party to avoid later embarrassment should be normal practice.
BTW, what do you think of Law and BJ aka Mark as representative of JOBBIK ? Not exactly a dream team for public relations. (It’s a rhetorical question, no answer required)
Considering the fact there are no votes to be gained for any party on this website and the plethora of insane postings, are also a reflection on poor judgement.
I couldn’t figure out why the other parties’ had no champions around here. Then I realized it was a waste of their energies
If I wanted to convert people to Christianity, I would not be putting my energies into people leaving a Catholic mass on Sunday.
@olga
You are being deliberately dishonest.
He read my lips concealed his record. He hid it.
And to say that Jobbik attracts murderers is truly hilarious. One could just as easily say that this man, compared the electoral chances of all the parties in his area, and thought Jobbik would be most likely to win.
There is only one party dedicated to holding people responsible for the crimes of their past. And that includes state-sponsored murderers and parliament-sponsored thieves. Let me help you: it is neither the MSZP or Fidesz.
How many criminals are in both the main parties? And how much do they all rally round to defend them, and their own vested interests? They certainly don’t get kicked out!
I continue to fail to see how any of these stories are damaging to Jobbik in any way. They allow it to demonstrate that it takes these matters seriously. As soon as actual evidence emerges of wrongdoing emerges against anyone: they get the boot.
And no Viking, scurilously made-up allegations of adultery don’t count, you doofus.
How many criminals are in both the main parties? And how much do they all rally round to defend them, and their own vested interests? They certainly don’t get kicked out!
bobscountrybunker at March 10, 2010 2:28 PM
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And no Viking, scurilously made-up allegations of adultery don’t count, you doofus.
bobscountrybunker at March 10, 2010 2:29 PM
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I fail to see what ‘bob’s last comment has to do with this thread, then no one claimed, to my knowledge that adultery is politicly connected
Hypocrisy can though be connected to political policies, but that is another thread
.
To take ‘bob’s 1st point, did not Hagyo (MSZP BKV) both resigned and then later was excluded from MSZP?
Same thing as Jobbik is doing, so what is your problem?
Can you make a list of all the “many criminals are in both the main parties”?
You seem to have inside knowledge here
.
‘bob’ being a legal expert also, maybe can explain why the policy of being innocent before proven guilty, or even arrested, should not apply to the politicians in the above list ‘bob’ is working hard to put together at the moment
@ Bob
Did you notice that I did not single out JOBBIK as attracting murderers?
I said it does not look good for “A “political party, period. We had an Immigration scandal connected to a Liberal MP – did not look good for the party but it could not be detected by a background check .
How can anyone hide a criminal record for murder?
I didn’t want to drag Canada into this but I have to so you don’t take this as an attack.
I was a Volunteer who was “promoted” to the Executive (no pay, lots of hours) for the Liberal party. Not exactly a high security job – no government secrets. Just access to office files.
I had to sign all kinds of release forms allowing a background check to cover the Party’s butt so to speak. Not only did they check criminal convictions but checked pending charges.
BTW, no one wanted any zealots -give ANY political party a bad name – please note the word “any” .
So please don’t take everything I write as a personal attack on your party. I don’t need to do that any more. I am comforted by knowing that all this energy by the faithful means nothing on this website.
You won’t understand this but it’s important to me that Hungary looks good in the eyes of the world. JOBBIK makes me cringe but luckily Hungarian politics does not get coverage here until the actual election results are known.