Police officers have been posted to every village in Borsod county, Interior Minister Sándor Pintér told reporters in Budapest on Tuesday. Borsod county has the highest crime rate in Hungary.
The secret services will be subordinated to the interior minister, Pintér explained. Asked whether he is planning personnel changes in the police leadership, he said work will be judged based on performance.
There are now 600 more police officers than usual, who are being supervised by the National Police chief and the commander of the Emergency Police, Pintér said, adding that their main task is to prevent crime “as burglaries and crop and chicken thefts are everyday occurrences”.
Pintér ordered the National Police chief to discuss with local village mayors whether they can offer police officers accommodation in exchange for the permanent police presence. Some villages have already indicated they are ready to provide accommodation to at least one police officer, he said.
Some 300 police officers have been reassigned to Borsod from the Emergency Police in Budapest, Kossuth Rádió reported. They will patrol all of the county’s 358 villages every day.
A good sign. But how long will it last?
Fidesz won in these areas by the usual means adopted by the MSZP. Telling the local Roma of the big fat free and imaginary benefits they will eventually receive for putting their cross in the right place.
Soon it will be clear that the promised money isn’t coming. And who will the Roma take their frustrations out on then? There will be blood. It will take about a year, but mark my words, there will be blood.
Is this not the same Mr.Pinter who became famous
for controlling the chinese market in Budapest,
for hims being close friends with russian mafioso,
etc etc?????? Can somebody confirm or deny?
How do you get 600 extra police officers overnight? Were there that many unemployed police? And then WTF were these 300 extra police doing in Budapest everyday? I know where they weren’t.
New Klub and bar for real Hungarians
http://www.klub64.com/magunkrol
New Klub and bar for real Hungarians
Magyar at June 3, 2010 9:02 AM
—
You will not find any of these here, then they only speak Hungarian in the bar
It is basically a romantic ‘Gangster’-set up, with famous Hungarian ‘Highway-men’ (road bandits for most people). This is the ‘ideological’ background for Budahazy and he is of course on the wall also
The 64 in Klub 64 is a reference to the HVIM 64 Counties
So it is a rather niched bar, probably rather selective in who they let in
Maybe we should bus up some Roma gangs from the Miskolc gyms and see if Klub64 apply an open door non-discriminatory policy or not?
Or suggest to the neo-liberal drug-pushers from Nigeria on Blaha to pop in on a Friday evening?
Viking you just reinforced the reality of the Neo liberals youth, the Nigerian Drug dealers and Gypsy Murderers from Vesprem. And I have witnessed your trash first hand.
I have witnessed your trash first hand
Magyar at June 3, 2010 12:14 PM
—
In Klub64?
Arson!
Law/Magyar/HotP as source of “found” poetry!:
Viking
you just
reinforced
the reality
of the Neo liberals youth
the Nigerian Drug dealers
and Gypsy Murderers
from Vesprem.
And I have witnessed
your trash
first hand.
Dob utca: haha. ‘The Artist formerly known as…’
“Nigerian Drug dealers”
One of the reasons why Jobbik is just as useless as all other parties, is that they are stupid.
They really believe that drugs are evil, and pálinka is good, clean fun.
They also subscribe to the idea of government control over personal choices.
I haven’t smoked a joint since I was 18, but I hate to see the damage done to society by the insane drug control. It creates more corruption, more crime and more rich gangsters. People should have a right to purchase their weed at a reasonable price at the local convenience store.
I have yet to hear a valid argument against this.
@cs:
Simple solution – emigrate to the Netherlands …
@wolfi
You’re useless.
I don’t need drugs.
I’m just fed up with the pointless and costly “War on Drugs” nonsense.
Common Sense: Well, I must admit that you caught me a little unawares with that one. To some extent I do agree with you. The facts show that illicit drugs are far less ‘dangerous’ than alcohol and tobacco. The last time I looked at the stats, roughly 3 times as many people died as a direct result of alcohol consumption…that is, disease or alcohol poisoning as compared with all illicit drugs combined, and that this ratio would be even higher if users of illicit users of drugs had access to ‘clean’ supplies…meaning that many of the deaths from illicit drugs come from bad product and inconsistent purity…there was even a batch of heroin on Australian streets that was cut with cement powder.Furthermore, many of the deaths of drug users come from secondary infections, diseases and life hazards that come about from becoming a ‘junkie underclass’.I did some volunteer work in a needle exchange once and it really opened my eyes to see how many users are professionals, housewives etc…so to me, the morality position is just hype. …and you’re absolutely right, the ‘war on drugs’ doesn’t stop people from using, they just use something else, from somewhere else, and somone else gets rich.So, from an economic sense, a law and order sense, and from a community health sense, it makes MORE sense (maybe even common sense) to decriminalise, regulate, control and monitor.At least that way, the users can contribute to the health system they inevitably need to use.
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HOWEVER…
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(cont)
…HOWEVER…
Drugs, including alcohol and tobacco are lethal. Even weed, which so many people regard as harmless causes all kinds of nasty things.Just hang around a bunch of stoners long enough and you can see the effects.Weed causes all kinds of psychiatric problems in varying degrees, and can lead to psychosis and schizophrenia.Although the argument of it being a gateway drug comes under criticism from ‘responsible’ users, the fact remains that people DO graduate from weed to harder things.Heroin in a pure form is actually not so bad for the body, but it is very addictive and difficult to stop using.
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Actually, many of the existing prescription medicines are on the list of ‘most abused drugs’, such as benzodiazepines, various anti-depressants and ADD/ADHD drugs which are dolled out like candy.
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So what does all this mean? If people want to use/abuse drugs, they will find a way, and no amount of ‘Law’ is going to stop that.That doesn’t mean though that there should be open slather, drugs are dangerous; people die and go crazy using them.The abuse of drugs is not a moral thing though.Many of the drug users I know and have known have damn good reasons for using them.As I am always saying, the answer is that the issue is a social issue, not a Law and Order issue…in fact, categorising people as losers, junkies, whores or any other kind of ‘undesirable’ only creates more problems than it solves.Maybe when people stop playing stupid political games, there might be progress.
I have long advocated on this website that the Hungarian govt consider some form of zoning, licensing and taxation of cannabis. The govt needs the money, and if properly set up and taxed, could give a considerable fiscal boost to both the public and private sectors. I have, and continue to recommend that this be approached in steps. First would be allowing medical marijuana and the outlets that would dispense them. Next would be allowing recreational sales and use in limited areas for starters. I would suggest targeting areas where tourists come, like hotels and certain districts. The impact on society could then be assessed at some point and further decisions taken.
The realist in me can’t help but see that the trade will go on, as will the usage. Whether govt should accept it and regulate it, or take a prohibitionist approach is the question. While not wishing to advocate open usage of anything and everything, I have to ask whether we need to move the line of acceptance. I view world pot prohibition and the decades of govt agitation against it, as an outgrowth of Anglo-Saxon angst, spread and encouraged worldwide, especially by the American govt. Nations, not just Hungary, have to ask themselves the obvious questions.
(cont)
I don’t see anything essentially Hungarian in pot prohibition. On the contrary, our history reveals that our people have had a centuries long realtionship with hemp, using it for myriad purposes. It’s an industry that Hungary should continue to develop and encourage for industrial and drug purposes.
At one time Washington would have come down hard on any country that dared to legalize soft drugs. I don’t sense that this is the priority or approach of the present US administration, and so nations like Hungary are free like never before to decide for themselves what they want to do. It is an opportunity that should be taken advantage of.
Years of watching the Dutch approach has convinced me of one important thing: that it is a giant cash register and moneymaker for any place sensible enough to adopt it. The economic multiplier effect on a country is enormous, covering tourism, to local business. I enjoy learning from the experience of others. As a Hungarian, I have to ask, and ask publicly, what would benefit us more, Prohibition, the California(medical) or Dutch approach?
There is a lot at stake here. I’m aware that whatever we decide, there are always problems; always a price, both financial, human and social. I continue to be concerned for the nation’s economic future, as well as the solvency of the govt. At a time when there doesn’t seem to be a lot of ideas on the table for jumpstarting the country, the above points should be considered.
@ FL and Common Sense
I am actually agreeing with CS (very scary) because I would like to see drug dealers go out of business
About marijuana – I’ve never seen obnoxious people
using pot but plenty of obnoxious drunks.
Maybe that’s the answer to the dual language issues – arrange for Hungarian and Slovak politicians to get high and they will soon love each other and cut a deal that’s actually good for the Hungarian minority instead of thinking about their own selfish agendas.
I am not up to date on Canadian drug laws but I believe possession of a certain amount of MJ is allowed, it’s available for medical purposes and trafficking is a crime.
We are saturated with news about drug dealers killing each other (no big loss as long as innocent people are not hurt in the crossfire, but unfortunately they often are) Most of the time crack cocaine is the street drug of choice.
FL: you continue to impress me with your thoughts. I agree that prohibition is a waste of time. I’m sure we all learned about alcohol prohibition in the US and how successful that was. To be honest, I’m not sure how I feel about actually promoting pot use. Tolerating it in casual use is one thing, but advertising its use is something else. To me, it’s the same as tobacco or alcohol advertising, which I also feel is not necessary. Somehow there are questions of responsibility. I absolutely do take your point about it being a potentially huge money spinner, and as I mentioned, if people are going to use something harmful anyway, it makes sense to allow it in such a way that at least contributes to the funding of the health and community services that will have to deal with the problems.
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I also agree with you about the western hype of drug prohibition, especially with the hypocrisy of the psychotropic medications industry. On that, I have a great quote I’ll post in a minute.
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Denmark is certainly interesting…and certainly it seems to me that despite predictions to the contrary, the country is not collapsing or descending into anarchy.
FL: this is the quote I mentioned before:
“[T]hough antidepressants can serve an important social function, they do not do so in a politically or socially neutral way. The widespread use and marketing of newer antidepressants serves specific social interests, some of which may not be in line with the needs of the people they are said to serve. They have become part of the technologies employed to produce more efficient and productive workers. In doing so, they may contribute to external life conditions that are becoming increasingly damaging to individuals’ well being” (Kraus, 2005: 3).
Hi Olga: Re: “I’ve never seen obnoxious people
using pot but plenty of obnoxious drunks.”
-
Hmm…you’ve never hung around ‘green rooms’ during gigs have you? There’s a reason they call them ‘green’.
The thing about pot users is that they are generally not obnoxious when they’re using…it’s when they’re NOT using, particularly when they’re coming down, that they are at their worst. Pot also routinely causes a lot of people to have really bad depressive episodes, which generally makes them withdraw. Social pragmatism aside, pot is really bad for you. It also interacts badly with other drugs, particularly psycho-active medications, which unsurprisingly are often being taken by pot users because of other mental health issues. So it’s all a bit chicken and egg really. The same goes for the paranoia and social fragmentation that comes in communities with high pot use.
-
So yes, in small, isolated doses by individuals using it every now and then, maybe no big deal…but then.
as a brief diversion back to the original topic: This business of increased police numbers is not a new Fidesz strategy. The reason they can do this is that the police department has been on a mass recruitment drive since about 2006 when they started pumping more cadets through the system. Don’t forget too that the Hatarorseg was incorporated into the Rendorseg which also meant more boys (and girls) in blue. What bothers me is that one of the ways they are doing this so dramatically is by cutting the training time of the cadets and putting them on the streets far too early. I’ve worked with these guys…they’re kids. Nice, good, Hungarian kids to be sure, but still…kids with clubs and guns. Does anyone know the song “God is a bullet” by Concrete Blonde?
@ Cinaed
Re: “So yes, in small, isolated doses by individuals using it every now and then” – of course that’s all I ever witnessed plus obnoxious drunks. Ugh
What do you think is the answer to putting the heavy duty drug lords out of business?
I figured if Holland legalized marijuana and Canadian laws are ok with possession, it can’t be a big deal. Of course, all substances can be abused including prescription drugs.
As far as “It also interacts badly with other drugs, particularly psycho-active medications, which unsurprisingly are often being taken by pot users because of other mental health issue” My guess is it’s no worse than alcohol.
I don’t see much difference between alcohol use and marijuana – for all I care, they can both be “illegal” as long as coffee is freely available.
@olga, Cináed etc:
As a former hash-smoker (that’s what we call it in Germany -the only times I ever smoked btw, no tobacco for me) I also feel mj is not more dangerous than alcohol – but:
In Germany we see a lot of very young people getting drunk – they call it “Koma-Saufen”, like half a bottle of cheap wodka.
At 14 years this does not bode too well for their future, if they do this regularly.
Add mj or stronger drugs to this – I’ve heard that in the USA you see 16 year olds on crack …
Anyway since I know several friends whose children are/were drug users (some are dead), I don’t really know what to think.
olga: I agree that pot and alcohol are just as bad as each other and yes, you’re right, plenty of people with mental health issues self-medicate with alcohol. A sad story for you: I was once talking to a friend who was so terribly tortured by her own brilliance and who ended up a completely dysfunctional person. I was asking her about her intentions regarding her continuing abuse of prescription codeine…she said with an intoxicated smile, “there will always be alcohol.” Even thinking about it makes me sad.
-
Personally, I think regulation, control and monitoring is the best way to go.Make it harder for the drug cartels to compete…take away the market…but also, put a decent effort into the underlying social problems that lead people towards drug use and stop being so goddamn myopic about mental health. (sorry…passionate issue)
-
Everyone has a drug of choice. Caffeine is mine too. It fuels my inner demon.
olga: Drug lords and pot. (in Au)Pot-lords don’t tend to follow the same pattern as the hard drugs.In Au, you can grow pot just about anywhere and large areas of thick rainforest make it easy to hide.So pot is easily produced and readily available.Apart from the big producers, which are pretty rare really, the majority are small timers who grow in their backyards.Two anecdotes: I used to live on a sugar cane farm, and the farmer more than once had to poison and plough under ‘crops’ grown between the rows of cane.During high school, kids used to grow pot in the school gardens…the school gardener was a mostly senile old retiree, and he used to cultivate the plants without knowing what they were.We had a ’21 jump street’ style sting operation with an under-cover cop in my English class, who ended up catching a guy who is in my form class for growing pot and supplying stimulants.
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Au has a similar policy to Canada with small amounts for personal use being overlooked, with larger amounts being a criminal offence.
What is needed is leadership from the top. Changing Hungary’s pot laws would need the full backing of the PM and his party. If they don’t want to change policy, then let them show a different kind of leadership and create an alternative prospective bonanza for the nation that does not involve drugs. Good luck.
Someday pot will be legal in Hungary; it’s a question of when. I don’t see it happening soon though, which is perhaps for the better. The govt may not be competant enough to manage and tax such a thing effectively-something that applies to a lot of other issues when you think about it.
FL: agreed…and when you look at the difficulties Hungarian governments have managing existing taxation and social issues, well…perhaps dealing with the very ‘liberal’ idea of decriminalising and regulating drugs seems a bridge too far right now. Still, I think it is something that can’t be ignored and a ‘smart’ government would be thinking about future strategies for dealing with it over time. This tendency to revert to moral arguments is not helping anyone, it’s not solving any problems, it’s not preventing drug use. To me, it’s no different to those who oppose sex-ed classes about contraception and safe sex on the basis that it promotes promiscuity.
Hi Cinead,
This is an idea that would require a grass roots movement, among whom would be diverse people like patient advocates, doctors, businessmen and rural people who might want to grow. (I couldn’t imagine a bigger boost to the countryside than to allow widespread cultivation!) It would take years to build and develop such a movemet and lobbying force to the point of effectiveness. Pity in a way, as the current majority lock that FIDESZ now has would be just what is needed to pass major change.
FL: I read somewhere that Hungary is actually one of, if not the, largest supplier of morphiene in Europe. I can’t remember the source, so can’t verify it. I do know though that Hungary has a big pharmaceutical industry. Why not add another industry?
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Even illegal as it is, Marijuana held the dubious title as Australia’s third largest cash crop for a while…I’m not sure if it still does, but it is impressive nonetheless.
-
I’m not sure it’s the kind of thing you’d want to make your national flower though.
@ Wolfi and Cinaed
Wolfi – you don’t need to go to the USA to find kids stung out on heavy duty drugs – just come to Toronto , very sad.
Cinaed, interesting you mention mental health issues and alcohol.
One of my closest friends ended up in a Betty Ford type Centre for alcoholism about 15-20 years ago and I didn’t even know she had a drinking problem. I don’t watch what other people drink and unless someone falls over me or acts ‘drunk’ I am pretty oblivious of what’s going on
Anyway, she hasn’t touched alcohol since she came out of that programme and she is also convinced she never was an alcoholic. It seems she has been diagnosed with “clinical depression” and found wine as her medicine. She said she will not drink because she does not want her anti-depressants to be effected by alcohol but she is of the opinion that many people are misdiagnosed with being “alcoholic” when in fact they suffer from clinical depression. No news to you but it was news to me when she told me.
Another friend’s 20 year old son died of an accidental cocaine overdose 10 years ago lat month – if it wasn’t for her strong Catholic faith, she she wouldn’t have survived (Husband became a hopeless workaholic who thinks religion is a crutch) Whatever religion is, it’s helping her.
Since this is a “police thread” – I heard rumours, that Toronto police help themselves when they raid big pot grow ops before they turn in all the loot. Who knows?
Maybe Hungarian cops are more honest.
“This is an idea that would require a grass roots movement, among whom would be diverse people like patient advocates, doctors, businessmen and rural people who might want to grow. ”
-
After I posted my last message…I read this again. “grassroots movement” Were you trying to be funny? …gave me the giggles…now I’ve got the munchies. haha.
@ Cinaed
Re: “To me, it’s no different to those who oppose sex-ed classes about contraception and safe sex on the basis that it promotes promiscuity.”
I never believe that promoting promiscuity was the real reason – I always believed these people wanted
kids to suffer the consequences if they were not
“moral” according to the Bible Thumpers’ definition
of morals.
If they want to kids to suffer at least they could think of the poor innocent babies who will be brought up by children themselves who know nothing about parenting – but then again who cares about the babies and who cares about the Hungarians in Slovakia?
All selfish people “ugatnak mint a kutyak” motivated by their subjective selfish agendas ; call them moral agendas or political agendas, same old, same old…
Gotta go to work….
The other major impact from a change in the pot laws could be in the area of energy. Hemp seed oil is flammable and can be used as a renewable bio-fuel. You can fuel autos with it; it’s been done. Taking such a step can enable ordinary farmers to enter the “oil business”. Anything that creates opportunity from the ground up, and which does not require massive investment capital, needs to be seriously considered. The nation itself can profit from greater energy independence.
FL: re: hemp oil as car fuel…well, at least that might do something about road rage.
-
I’m really open to the idea of growing crops with multiple uses, and yes, hemp does have more than just recreational use. Where it can be a problem is when it actually takes more energy to produce the product than what it saves. It can also be a problem when farmland for growing food is taken over by inedible cash crops. The fuel market is particularly volatile too, so there are concerns there. Having said that, I don’t know that much about Hungarian agriculture, so if it’s viable, then why the hell not. As I was saying a while ago, the relatively ‘undeveloped’ state of Hungary’s economy could actually be an advantage in that there is space to develop new industries where other established economies would have great trauma trying to change over.
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Who knows, with hemp, Hungary could be at the forefront of the next ‘green revolution’ and make central europe a calmer place in the process. …I wonder if they could get credits for releasing MORE emission from burning hemp oil for power generation. I’m sure McDonalds wouldn’t mind.
Dear Cinead,
Hemp oil itself has double use, both as fuel AND as food. The oil is edible, can be substituted for other salad oils and is rich in vitamin E and other anti-oxidants. [The very same oil that you eat, with processing, can be ignited and used in pace of gasoline(!).] It is up to the producer to decide which end use they want. Which is my point: I want to see business opportunities for Hungarians in the countryside that play on our centuries of experience with the land and product, and which allow choices.
I will never forget the experience, seeing the oldest Hungarian printed book in my life. It was in the collection of a family friend, a medieval scholar. It was printed in Hungary around 1480, in Latin. The stark quality and strength of it’s hemp paper pages was utterly remarkable. One had no doubt that this paper could last another thousand years! I felt proud of that ancient generation of Hungarian paper craftsmen, who took a local weed and turned it into paper that outlasts dynasties and empires. There are many business opportunities in hemp.
Hemp is one answer to the bigger question, of what to do with the Hungarian countryside, especially it’s agricultural land. Whatever we choose, we have to make more and better use of the Hungary that fate alloted to us at this point. We might have to show God, ourselves and others that we can make good do with what we have, before we can start expecting more.
“Maybe Hungarian cops are more honest.
olga at June 3, 2010 6:22 PM ”
That was the biggest joke ever here – I’m sorry, you probably didn’t realise it …
PS: We just returned from the kocsma, interesting discussion that you had going …
We’ll be back in Hungary next week – after that concert with Eric Clapton and Steve Winwood this saturday …
BTW: Clapton is a reformed alcoholic and drug user who now plays regularly for the AA and also gives some money to a drug clinic in the West Indies (forgot the name)
Talking about police officers and Klub 64… I just thought, well, that
didn’t take very long. It seems patrons of Klub 64 aren’t as much in
harmony with the locale as the owner suggested. It’s only open a
few weeks. Nothing like a gay-bashing to embolden the far-right,
one step at a time.
http://www.napiaszonline.hu/aktualis/meleget_vertek_a_nemzeti_d
iszko_elott_20502
http://www.frissmeleg.hu/2010-06-16/buziveres_a_klub_64_elott
@Outraged!
The first paragraph of the first link reads:
“Egy arcát, nevét nem vállaló meleg fiatalember azt állítja, vasárnap hajnalban megverték a Klub64 nevű nemzeti szórakozóhely előtt. A klub tulajdonosa szerint akkor már zárva voltak.
A NapiászOnline.hu szerkesztőségéhez eljuttatott e-mailben egy nevét, arcát nem vállaló meleg fiatalember azt állítja, megverte őt három vendég a két hete megnyitott Klub64 nevű nemzeti szórakozóhely előtt. Megpróbáltunk utánajárni az esetnek, ám a történet meglehetősen ellentmondásos. A tulajdonos, Toroczkay László elmondása szerint ugyanis hajnali háromnegyed hatkor már nem is voltak nyitva.”
Rough translation: A person unwilling to indentify themselves or give a name has alledged he was beaten up at dawn on Sunday in front of Klub 64. According to the owner the club was shut at the time in question.
NapiászOnline’s editors received an anonymous email from a gay person concealing their name and identity, who claims to have been beaten up by three gests of the recently opened club. We attempted to investigate the incident, but the story is highly contradcitory. According to the club’s owner they aren’t even open at quarter to six in the morning. [when this "beating" took place]