Western-style capitalism has fallen into a crisis in the past few decades insofar as it promises a good standard of living so long as the state keeps itself at arms length from the economy, Prime Minister Viktor Orban said at the Hungarian summer university camp at Baile Tusnad, Romania, on Saturday.
Orban addressed the question of what would happen to Hungarians in the next few years of the 21st century, saying that the first decade of the century had undergone a tectonic shift, and the frightening news from around the world had a direct impact on Hungarians, and whether there would be work for them or whether Hungarians would be competitive.
He said speculative practices had overtaken the values associated with work and, lacking oversight by the state, the capitalist system had gone bankrupt. Not only is an efficient market needed for a successful kind of capitalism but one which is based on moral foundations, he added.
Capitalism, he said, had got cast off from its moral moorings. Recklessness has taken the place of useful limitations, Orban said.
The prime minister said that a “two-thirds revolution” had taken place in Hungary.
“We have brought an end to an era,” he said, adding that the previous period had repeatedly turned good, honest people into losers.
Orban said that his Fidesz centre-right government wanted to build a society in which a respectable, honest man had a better chance to get on than the man who breaks the law.
The opposition Socialist Party’s deputy chairman Laszlo Kovacs said in a statement that Orban’s speech contained either meaningless platitudes or outright contradictions.
Kovacs said that the most eye-catching contradiction was Orban’s insistence that Hungary had been close to bankruptcy at the start of June while now, only a few weeks afterwards, its economy, Orban said, was stable, even though the current government’s economic action plan to right the economy had only been enacted a couple of days ago.
“Western-style capitalism has fallen into a crisis in the past few decades insofar as it promises a good standard of living so long as the state keeps itself at arms length from the economy… …He said speculative practices had overtaken the values associated with work and, lacking oversight by the state, the capitalist system had gone bankrupt. Not only is an efficient market needed for a successful kind of capitalism but one which is based on moral foundations, he added.”
Does this Orbán guy just wake up in the morning, and thumb to whichever part of the Jobbik manifesto takes his fancy that day?
If you don’t believe me, take a look at Krisztina Morvai here, before last years European elections: sound familiar?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CwilgZBi7Y
What was it that Ronald Regan said again?
Something like, “There is no limit to what you can accomplish in politics provided you don’t care who gets the credit.”
1. “western-style capitalism in crisis”? No Mr. Orban. State involvement in the daily lifes of its citizens is the real problem. Capitalism is the only system capable of lifting millions out of poverty if allowed to work to its full extent by politicians eager for control.
2. “one which is based on moral foundations”.. what morals are we talking about? how dare he talk about morality, when that is an individual issue that is different from person to person…
3. “useful limitations”.. and who sets those limitations? The ministry of Thruth?
4. “speculative practices had overtaken the values associated with work”. Everyone speculates Mr. Orban. When take out a loan I speculate. When I buy a house I speculate. When I buy a government bond I speculate. When I invest in OTP shares to finance the future education of my chrildren I speculate. Is that so bad? After all, it is my money I chose to spend the way I see fit.
Capitalism in its current form is obviously unsustainable.
It’s time to come up with something new.
Any ideas?
“Capitalism in its current form is obviously unsustainable”… please elaborate, otherwise we have no reference point to which we can agree/disagree…
I think capitalism is the only sustainable system in the long run. Capitalism works best when people see the advantages of private property, free trade, limits in the size of the state, no state owned enterprises, no unions, transparency, low fiscal burden, independent central bank, indenpendet courts and press no censure.
@Common Sense: “Capitalism in its current form is obviously unsustainable.
It’s time to come up with something new.
Any ideas?”
Yes, here’s one: You invest your money and effort in a system, belief, work ethic and governments you believe in. I will invest my money and effort in a system, belief, work ethic and government I believe in. Democracy gives you that choice. You have an alternative, put your money where you mouth is.
n.b. Obviously I have fixed assets and have committed myself to Hungary in the medium term, so am not in a position to invest all my capital in system I believe will be best, but a dual approach is a decent compromise for me.
canadian laid it out…
now is the time for Hungary to ….
just do it…….
“I think capitalism is the only sustainable system in the long run. Capitalism works best when people see the advantages of private property, free trade, limits in the size of the state, no state owned enterprises, no unions, transparency, low fiscal burden, independent central bank, indenpendet courts and press no censure.”
Would be nice, but some people don’t respect property even if they see it’s advantages. Trade is hardly ever free anywhere, only to a certain extent, but where is the ideal limit? Show me a country where state owned enterprises and unions don’t exist. Show me a “capitalist” country with full transparency. Media is controlled even in the most advanced democratic countries, at least by investments or other dependencies, lobby, whatever, so don’t just create a theory, but be realistic. Modern capitalism will be out-dated just like any other ideologies because the banking system will slowly become it’s “despot”. People/entities/even states with loan will become “slaves” to the system and after a certain limit, capitalism will also “burn-out”. It’s a good question what comes next, but if I knew, I weren’t here…
“He said speculative practices had overtaken the values associated with work and, lacking oversight by the state, the capitalist system had gone bankrupt. Not only is an efficient market needed for a successful kind of capitalism but one which is based on moral foundations, he added.
Capitalism, he said, had got cast off from its moral moorings. Recklessness has taken the place of useful limitations, Orban said.”
Few days ago, Orban said that the coutries throughout Europe will introduce bank levy following the Hungarian example. Orban had in mind the support of German chancellor A. Merkel when saying that. Hopefully, he didn’t miss her words recalling European countries binded to follow also a 3% deficit target.
In the future, Hungary will certainly follow Germany’s example and introduce the constitutional law for the balanced Hungarian budget. Germany has recently introduced the constitutional law which forbids German government to get over 0.35% budget deficit by 2016 and from 2020 Germany will not allowed to have any deficit at all. Germany hopes other European countries will follow its example.
Hungary’s revolutionary government, the World Champion in budget consolidation and government spending, can use this opportunity and show its determination in defying the “recklessness” and placing the “useful limitations” starting with defying the chronical practice of its own budget deficits.
Capitalism starts off good, because people are relatively free and can maneuver themselves to become successful, but overtime an oligarchy builds up around the capitalist system, and it suffocates and leaves millions of others to support the wealthy at the top.
Capitalism can only work when politicians and political parties and the media is independent of capitalism itself. The funny thing about Capitalist is that they complain about the government interfering in the markets, but they have no problem interfering in the government.
The Capitalist use lobbies and outright extortion, bribery, and wealth to influence politics. The wealthy, not your individual citizen decides who is elected, because it is the wealthy who run the media, support the campaigns, influences voters, and bribe politicians to do their bidding.
A new capitalist system is needed one which bans lobbies and corporate ownership of the media. I believe Hungary needs something similar to America’s “separation of church and state”, but instead be-it a “separation of business-interest and state”. Business should not influence politics or influence the media and should only have power in the buisness sphere.
By looking at history, you will see how this tactic has been used in many ways. For example, there is the conflict between communism and capitalism. Many people allowed themselves to be drawn into this conflict, and they thought the struggle between capitalism and communism was a struggle between good and evil. In reality, the struggle between capitalism and communism is simply a struggle between two kinds of totalitarianism, two forms of centralized control of the economy.
The middle way between these two extremes is a form of economy called “free enterprise” or the “free market economy” (unfortunately many people believe the lie that free enterprise is the same as capitalism). The very basis of the free enterprise economy in unrestricted competition. In a free enterprise economy, it is not possible to create a monopoly. As long as competition remains free, a company can gain a monopoly only on a temporary basis. It is inevitable that some other company will start producing the same goods at a lower price, and thereby the monopoly is broken.
Freedom and Middleway are two bright individuals, rarely seen on this board.
I cannot find a single point they make to argue with.
Competition and free enterprise are killed by monopolies. Microsoft, eBay, Google, etc. didn’t grow into the monsters they are today because they produced better goods and services. They were more ruthless and aggressive in eliminating the competition. When they grow big, improvements stop, empire building begins. By this time consumers have no other choices, so their needs can be ignored. Corporate greed, the insatiable appetite for growth takes over. Every time.
Regular people become bees, they make some noise, but who cares when they bring in the honey.
How much honey is enough?
Common Come On
***
“Capitalism in its current form is obviously unsustainable.
It’s time to come up with something new.
Any ideas?”
Common Sense at July 26, 2010 11:44 AM
***
I see what you are getting at…
Maybe socialism????
The national variety???
***
Maybe Hungarians will be better at it than the Germans were.
Orban is such a good European Social Democrat, pity he is in the wrong camp with Fidesz in Brussells
The should really change to the Socialist group
In Hungary they are the one’s, like Stan and Jobbik, that miss the Good Old Kadar Time, when everything was able to calculate and the future was already decided, if we just Trust Our Beloved Leaders
Anonymous at July 27, 2010 4:49 AM
—-
Me
Damn! I missed again. Maybe next time.
http://tinyurl.com/3a3dtae
Damn! I missed again. Maybe next time.
Viking’s Worst Nightmare at July 27, 2010 10:17 AM
—
Well, doing business in Hungary I have been beaten up and threaten to have my place blown-up by a bomb, so what is some concrete slabs?
Notice, it was a Swedish driver, not a Viking
Must have been an Hungarian refugee pretending to be a ‘Swede’, but we know better…
@ Viking
Am I lacking the “Hungarian sense of humour”? – a man got killed.
About the threat of having your place blown up – must have been another hilarious prank.
I am going to do an Internet search for the most laid back nationality in Europe (I love Europe) and see if I can get a fake birth cert. and apply for a passport – will send my Hungarian one to Cinaed, maybe he can alter pic and d.o.b and have his wife use it – Good for another 5 years or so.
…perhaps Hungary should try ‘Eastern style capitalism’…you know, strong autocratic party government, oligarchy of powerful businessmen running the market, subservient hard-working people running the mills. You never know, it could work.
-
Actually, I do agree that unrestrained capitalism is unsustainable and that market control is a moral issue. The thing is, everyone ‘knows’ that, but what is more important is what people DO about it. This is one of the many issues I have with Hungarian politics and politicians…all talk, no action. I would say all style and no substance, but I don’t see much of either.
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Olga, thanks for the offer of the passport. I’m pretty sure the local immigration people would notice though. …can’t say the same for the Hungarians.
@ Viking
Am I lacking the “Hungarian sense of humour”? – a man got killed
olga at July 27, 2010 4:08 PM
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Yes, I agree it was a bit tasteless
Why Hungarians love Jews so much:
http://tinyurl.com/24wknn2
Sue,
A lot of businesses made good coin off the WWII Holocaust. IBM itself sold devices used by the Nazis to issue the numbers tatooed on the arms of Jews.
They should be held accountable.
The Swiss banks kept the assets of dead Jews after WWII and made no attempt to find their heirs. If an account is inactive for many years, the banks have an obligation to act.
I don’t believe Eastern European nations made any restitution. The Communists said that “we Eastern Europeans were just victims except for a few bad Fascist apples”.
That version of history is probably false.
There is collective guilt to extent that Eastern European countries acquiesced in the Holocaust.
“That version of history is probably false.
There is collective guilt to extent that Eastern European countries acquiesced in the Holocaust.
American in Budapest at July 31, 2010 12:25 PM”
……………
Quick question AiB.Do you agree or disagree with the statements below in particular no.s one and ten ?
1. Communist governments killed perhaps a hundred million more people than the Nazis did.
2. Women commit acts of domestic violence at a higher rate than men do.
3. Blacks commit interracial violence at a rate far in excess of their representation in the general population.
4. Sex has a lot to do with rape.
5. Race is a biologically quantifiable reality in addition to something that can be manipulated as a social construct.
6. Black-on-black murders in the USA every year are roughly double the total number of blacks lynched in America throughout history.
7. Islam is far more misogynistic and anti-Semitic than most white male Christians are.
8. There is not a shred of evidence to support the idea of innate cognitive and physical equality between human ethnic groups.
9. Many of the nations that wound up being colonized were not innately peaceful and were only subjugated due to their inferior defensive technology.
10. Collective, intergenerational guilt is a fantasy that doesn’t exist.
11. The ends do not justify the means.
AiB,
Are you retarded or one of the jewish criminals trying to get rich the American way: frivolous lawsuits?
Hungary has paid these scumbags an awful lot of money. Billions in “reparations” and other undeserved benefits.
Enough is enough. Not a penny more, especially not for obviously ridiculous claims, such as the latest attempts by the Chicago jewish mafia.
The holocaust industry gives jews a bad reputation, not people who are tired of it.
7. Islam is far more misogynistic and anti-Semitic than most white male Christians are
Joseph Dietrich at July 31, 2010 7:10 PM
—
Interesting to compare a religion (which has, like all religions, so many different interpretations that it is impossible to tell what is what), with a group of males (“most white male Christians”)
To which church do these “most white male Christians” belong to?
* The Swedish State Church,
* American Pentecostal Church,
* American Baptist Church (that sends out greeting cards to parents who lost their children in AIDS, to congratulate them that the Devil lost)
* African baptist Church,
* The Liberal Catholic Church in Sweden (who even allows homosexual priest to marry same sex and also have women as priests)
* The Vatican
Some of the above churches are extremely pro-Zionist, others have a clear history of anti-Judaism
I just wonder what they all could have in common and where I, an European White Male, decedent of the Original Europeans, who was brought up in a mix of a Swedish Pentecostal and Baptist environment, but now is a certified Atheist, do not qualify to the “most white male Christians” group?
My kind have no say, even if we are the biggest group in Europe today?
@Viking.
Viking.Insofar that you declare yourself a ‘certified atheist’ has nothing to do with the statement ie,’Islam is far more misogynistic and anti-Semitic than most white male Christians are’.
The question to AiB and now you is the same.Do you agree or disagree with the statement?
‘Islam is far more misogynistic and anti-Semitic than most white male Christians are’
…
Do you agree or disagree with the statement?
Joseph Dietrich at August 1, 2010 1:37 PM
—
I cannot agree with a statement that equates a whole religion with a lose definition of a group of White Males, regardless what the statement contains
If you would state that ‘a certain Islamic Madras would be far more misogynistic and anti-Semitic than a specific Christian Church’ we could speak
And I think you would have no problem finding that comparison to prove your statement
Other people would probably be able to find another statement that would prove the opposite, so what is really the meaning with this exercise?
Just to show we all can make statements that prove whatever?
That some Muslims have problems with people of other religions?
I think it will be no problems to find people of any religion being pissed off with other religions, and you will find atheists that think that all religions should be forbidden and religious people thrown in jail
So what is really your point with that illogical statement?
Since when was Islam, like Judaism, or any other religion, homogeneous?
@Viking,
D
“where I, an European White Male, decedent of the Original Europeans, who was brought up in a mix of a Swedish Pentecostal and Baptist environment, but now is a certified Atheist, do not qualify to the “most white male Christians” group?
My kind have no say, even if we are the biggest group in Europe today?”
Viking at August 1, 2010 12:51 PM
Well, if that’s the case, form a minority group and call yourselves Males of Original Europeans…White..No God ‘MEOWING’ for short and you’ll have all the say your little heart desires.
Just hope they don’t call you a bunch of fucking pussies
VDX,
As much as I admire the Germans, you can’t legislate a balanced budget. If the Germany economy falls into recession, it will run a deficit and any attempt to close that deficit will simply make their economy worse.
How is Germany going to stimulate its economy during the next recession if it is required to balance its budget when aggregate income and output is falling?
It is putting all the burden on monetary policy and that may be too thin a reed …