When will they have the guts to terminate In-Kal?

...and give those contracts to some of the leading figures behind Magyar Garda that also have private security companies set up, you mean...

There you go again, telling everyone else what they mean.

telling everyone else what they mean.
bobscountrybunker at July 28, 2010 2:59 PM
---
Of course, then it is obviously needed
But maybe you can describe the difference between the two different private security companies involved in this debate:
* Minister of the Interior Sándor Pinter's former security company Civil Biztonsági Szolgálat Zrt, and
* In-Kal Security

My position is that people are perfectly capable of expressing the opinions they actually hold. Your is that you must, for some reason, invent opinions for other people. And then condemn them for these opinions, when they in fact exist only in your imagination.

My question was why you thought yourself equipped to do this. It had nothing to do with In-Kal or CBSz.

Viking@Idiot,one is Israel/jew owned the other is Hungarian--Follow me???

one is Israel/jew owned the other is Hungarian--Follow me???
Ricsi at July 28, 2010 7:32 PM
---
You mean that the "Israel/jew owned" is better to protect the Hungarian Republic, than the "Hungarian"?
What guarantees do you have that you do not have any capital/ownership from "Israel/jew owned" in Pinter's company?
Checking out
http://www.inkal.hu/index.php?page=vezetok
it is a bit hard to see the difference...

Hey Bob, when you get your algorithm worked out to
filter out messages with "Jew" and "Israel" in them,
can you pass along the code to Erik & Co?

We would witness the sudden disappearance of Ricsi
from Politics.hu.

And some here say it's people like ME who keep bring
ing up the J-word...

@Bystander
I see your point. But I think the actual purpose of Politics.hu is these kind of nutty debates. Or debates between nutters. That's why people come here, not for the actual news.
If I manage to get my site off the ground I hope the actual articles will be the actual focus of attention. So I certainly won't be poaching Politics.hu's readership. People visit different sites for different reasons.

@ Bystander,

" But I think the actual purpose of Politics.hu is these kind of nutty debates. Or debates between nutters. That's why people come here, not for the actual news."

bobscountrybunker at July 29, 2010 12:53 AM

And that, Bystander is why your membership would be under review, code for not wanted...not because your a Jew...because your a nut job :DD

He does (Bobs) have a point...I mean... you admit to walking around with a cape tied around your neck, whilst wearing red tights with a large yellow 'J' painted on your hairless chest :)

"You don't want to make Hungary better for Hungarians; you just want to feel safe and comfortable here. Get lost “Common Sense at July 21, 2010 2:29 PM
"You have 'loser' written all over you" American in Budapest at July 21, 2010 2:45 PM
"Maybe he should go back to his ranch in Wyoming and brand a few steers and have extra-curricular relations with them too “Rodeo at July 21, 2010 11:55 PM
"Fuck off back to your cave. You Beverly Hilbilly crank “Copper at July 22, 2010 11:57 AM
"My wife oddly seems OK with the fact... I think it puts her at ease that I won't "try anything" while we're spooning on the couch “Bystander at July 23, 2010 6:59 PM
"With the greatest of respect, as Withnail said to I, "What the fuck are you talking about?"bobscountrybunker at July 26, 2010 1:35 PM
"I add Vandorlo 'twat' and dumb neo-liberal Wolfi to this category, all probably very nice guys but so f..cking NAIVE" Ricsi at July 16, 2010 3:17 PM
"I can't even call you assholes - that would be too little" wolfi at July 16, 2010 4:13 PM
"otherwise I'm afraid I'll have to hate your guts and hope for a painful and shameful demise. don't take it personally though. I don't hate human beings" Cináed at July 21, 2010 6:57 PM
"Climb out of your own arse and grow up a little" Vándorló at July 21, 2010 8:59 PM
“p.s. Don't point me to the same fucking data I've already provided, shit for brains” Vándorló at July 21, 2010 9:42 PM
“But most of all: *shut the fuck up about living in Paris* no one gives a fuck” Vándorló at July 22, 2010 12:18 AM
“So are you leaving out Tajikistan because it is not a "proud brave" country, or because you're even dumber than an American?” Erik at July 27, 2010 10:20 PM
“I have never had the pleasure of experiencing STDs...that is the hand that I have been dealt...woe is me. Maybe, I'll be luckier in my next life” :)) justasking at July 27, 2010 12:39 AM

“Before us there was only the Neanderthals, but those we took care of, with maybe one exception – Law On the other hand Neanderthals are not counted as Humans, so” ...Viking at July 12, 2010 3:33

Just remember Poilitics.hu readership (aka, my fellow nutters), if your name is on this list, Bobs is not interested in you sniffing around his upcoming website. It would seem that you are not interested in ‘actual news’

That's fine. Until my Hungarian is sufficiently good to read the Hungarian newspapers, I'll read the Budapest Times. Much more intelligent debate there ...

I admire free speech à l'Américaine, but I think Erik made a mistake in not reviewing comments before they are posted. Law is just using the site to spew anti-Semitism.

In a country that is pathologically nationalist, that's almost essential.

It’s time to take this slur of anti-Semitism and say it’s a badge of honor and say that at least you’re not a slave to their obvious lies and only a fool or a coward cares what anyone calls them, when you can prove the truth that you don’t care what they pretend they are, you just care about what they do …and that they are not Semitic anyway that the Palestinians are the original inhabitants of the land and that the DNA tests prove it so call me what you like and that power is on the way to being turned against them and nail them on what is provably true and write and sing and say it, because what use is your life anyway, if you live in subjugation to them? Is it going to improve for you? Is that their intention? That’s not what they do. Look at what is inescapably evident and tell yourself the truth. It gets very clear, very quick what is really going on, when you take the time to look.

@Law - Just like some dumb kid who wants to belong, you'd wear anything with a badge of honour. You'd be walking around with two salamis sticking out your ears if someone told you that was some forgotten Hungarian custom.

Well at least they wouldn't be stuck up my backside like in your case, where you get your cheap thrills.

Law, Quick question for you. Define what you
consider absolute proof. As for the whole "semite"
thing, I can't imagine that the majority of jews
living in Isreal now claim to be the original
semitic inhabitants, what with most of them being
European/Ashkenazi, so that's not really the most
shocking statement. I'd even go so far as to say
it's pointing out the extremely obvious....

European/Ashkenazi Jews have no claim to Palestinian land, they're converted Khazars.
Many Jews are blinded by pride and refuse to look at the beam in their your own eyes and victimise all Goyim, you have a rotten tyrannical history by manipulating institutions, media, governments, resources, nations, International financial systems and even “Superman” comic hero to gain power through disgusting deception, you don’t promote ethics only divide and manipulate nations.
Israel laws are that the Jewish race be free from any Goyim intervention, (How Racist is this!!) don’t get me wrong I would not consider having any relationship with scoundrels who behave like this, this is why your race crucified Galilean Jesus because he exposed “The Synagogue of Satanic.”

And then your race have the hide to convert Jesus teachings into Judeo Christian, you cant have them both together either there is one or the other and Jesus introduced Christianity to awaken the people.

So, yeah, any time you want to apply that J-word
filter to *this* site, Erik, please feel free!

Excellent summary of the nuttiness, JA!

"...you admit to walking around with a cape tied
around your neck, whilst wearing red tights with a
large yellow 'J' painted on your hairless chest
:"

I only *wish* my chest was hairless -- apparently
that's the look these days... But yes, the rest is
true!

Will G is a reasonable guy. Even in person. I met him and Judas last summer. We had a civilized conversation and some decent coffee. Maybe we should do it again sometime, others are free to join.
Like most people, I tend to be a bit more cynical and sarcastic in writing than in real life. A discussion board like this one is like a cartoon, anything goes, you can get run over by a steamroller and walk away. It's only words, sometime excessively offensive, just to make a point or blow off steam. Don't confuse the message with the person, they might be completely different.

Why don't we all come together for a couple of beers or coffee or whatever is your fancy, and have a real life conversation? Everyone is invited, pick a nice, quiet place in Budapest, not too crowded, so we can spend some time there without holding up the line waiting to get in.
Anyone up for it? I'm even willing to go to Viking's place if he really has one. No worries, I'll pick up the tab.

@Stan,

Well, I just caught your post...I admit, you surprised me by your suggestion.

If everybody agrees to leave their attitude at the door and keep an open mind...no throwing daggers across the room with your eyes, if you happen to meet somebody you have a hard time tolerating on Politics (like, what are the odds of that happening :)...count me in.

The issue I have is, I will be in Budapest mid May-through the entire month of June, so if we can schedule a get together at that time? Or even another one?

Oh, and Stan...Viking does have a place...and I insist...I’ll get it...Viking picked up the tab behind my back last time and I owe him one.

And what are you two smoking? You don't think there are people on this website who are observing and hoping to tag along to a pub meeting to keep tabs on us.. Christ’s sake again what ignorance.

The guy in the dark glasses and trench coat, trying to make himself ‘invisible’ behind one of the support beams in Vikings pub ...is none other than Law.

Now that we have all that cleared up...let’s all ‘pretend’ we don’t see him.

Who wants another round?

@Law - those salamis sticking out your ears must have been the giveaway. Apologies, Law, that anon was me.

@Stan, thanks for the reference. @Anon, I'm not
quite sure where to begin my rebuttal of your
post, but, let me give it a try. First off, and
this is relevant to my initial comment, can u show
me some proof of the jewish conspiracy please.
The problem here is that I've been jewish my whole
life and apparently I'm either not Jewish enough,
or they forget to get me my decoder ring and the
secret handshake, either way, I've not really
experienced the benefits of the conspiracy.
Seriously, it's disappointing on so many levels to
be tagged as a "member" of this great worldwide
conspiracy without being able to reap any
benefits. So if you'd get me proof, hopefully i
could approach them and try to get something out
of it. Next, um, regarding Jesus, you do realize
here that the Jewish belief system doesn't
consider him the savior, right, and that since the
Judaic calendar is around 5780 or so, we didn't
really co-opt Christianity, since, like i said,
we're older, and we don't acknowledge the New
Testament. Again, u understand thats it's a
belief system, right? So lets be a little more
open-minded please and make sure to attack all
beliefs. I for one am preparing a long diatribe
against Hinduism as the icons of their gods are
too colorful, and next up is going to be the
Amish, cause i can't stand the fact that they
still don't use cars, the bastards!! Law, dude, I
really couldn't care less who follows me, bring it
on i say. Next, Stan, i'm in, name the time and
the place.

@Will G

Ignorance truly is bliss for the forces of duality! Your ignorance is their bliss.
If you look at many of the things people do, you will see that the individual acts have no rational or logical purpose. Why do people destroy their bodies and minds with drugs, alcohol, tobacco or impure foods? Why do nations engage in the mass hysteria called war? Why do huge companies seek to concentrate money in the hands of a few shareholders by exploiting the workers, when spreading the wealth among the workers would give those companies a greater market? Why does an entire civilization allow a few large companies to pollute its environment and deplete natural resources in order to make a short-term profit, when doing so threatens the long-term survival of both the companies and the civilization?

Taken at face value, none of these individual actions are logical or rational, so why do people allow them to go on and on in an endless cycle of repeating the same mistakes? My point is that if you look at surface appearances, you will never find a rational or logical answer, for there is no such answer.

The fact is that people do not know why they perform self destructive actions, they have no logical or rational reasons. If people knew better, they would do better, meaning that people can engage in self destructive actions only when they are trapped in ignorance.

So if you want to understand what is really happening on this planet, you have to look for the reason why people are ignorant. Is there perhaps a force on this planet that wants to keep people ignorant? Is there a force that benefits from people’s ignorance, whether it be innocent ignorance , people simply don’t know or willful ignorance people don’t want to know? What could such a force possibly be?

Jesus told us to be aware that we do not cast our pearls before swine

Once you begin to understand how every aspect of life has been influenced by the duality consciousness, you realize that all of the institutions of society have been manipulated by dualistic forces at least to some degree. As a result, these institutions have become tools for keeping people in bondage, in democratic nations mainly through ignorance. So there is an obvious need for people to speak out against duality in every area of society, according to their expertise and experience.

@ Stan

I am hoping to meet justasking in BP next spring - your idea sounds great.

Re: "Don't confuse the message with the person, they might be completely different. "

Just so you know - I am exactly the same. Let me know if the invitation is rescinded.

I hope all the revolting hate mongers in this world are the same as well - hate to think I walk amongst them and I am blissfully ignorant of their true self.

People like Law I consider harmless because they are cartoons - I would worry more about subtle and insidious hatred and discrimination that's not easily recognized

Look in the mirror Olga and you will expose your ingorance.

@ Law

Just looked in the mirror - dark circles under my eyes because we were out until 2 a.m.

I couldn't wait until it exposed my ignorance but I shall look again after my 3rd cup of coffee and keep you posted. Thank you for caring

There are three levels of Consciousness for Human Beings.

The people who are the lowest 10 percent in terms of HIGHER consciousness make up the power elite. I know this will be difficult to believe for many people, because this actually includes many of the people who are the leaders of society, in politics, business, the media and entertainment. These people might seem to be very intelligent, powerful and sophisticated, but I am not here talking about worldly abilities and appearances. I am talking about Higher consciousness.

Next we have the top ten percent of the population, and they form what we might call the creative elite although they ideally should not see themselves as an elite but as part of the population. These are the people who have some awareness of what is going on. They have some degree of creativity that allows them to be the open door for new ideas, and they have some degree of courage to fight for higher principles. Yet they often have no desire for power, so they are easily pushed out of decision-making positions by the lowest ten percent who have an insatiable desire for power.
cont

The third group are the 80 percent that make up the general population. Although they have various levels of awareness, they all fall into the category of being followers. They do not have a sufficient level of Higher consciousness to be true leaders, and they do not have a sufficient level of lower consciousness to belong to the power elite. Consequently, they have no desire to lead and they want someone else to lead so they can focus on their daily lives.
The fate of a nation depends largely on whether the general population follow the power elite or the creative elite. Now, one might think that the power elite has an unfair advantage in that they are good at getting power and they are ruthless in terms of crushing opposition to their control. In a sense this is true, and it explains why so many nations have taken a long time to establish true freedom and democracy. In fact, it explains why no nations have truly established a free and democratic society that is not dominated by a power elite.

Nevertheless, the reality of the situation is that the people who are truly deciding the fate of a nation are the top ten percent, the creative elite. If these people do not have a sufficient level of Christ consciousness to pull the population up, the population will either follow the power elite or they will be so controlled by the power elite that they cannot challenge the power and control of this elite.

Yet if the top ten percent have a sufficient level of Christ consciousness, they can pull the population up. And when the population rises above a certain level of awareness, the control of the power elite begins to slip. The more the consciousness of the people rises, the more the power elite will lose their stranglehold on the nation. The reason being that the power elite can maintain their control only by keeping the population ignorant. So when the population's awareness is raised, the power elite can no longer hide, and thus they must give up some of their power.

Yet the population simply cannot be the driving force behind positive change. They can only follow the strongest current in the nation’s consciousness. So it really is up to the creative elite to manifest a high enough degree of Christ consciousness to awaken the population to the need for change, the awareness of how change can come about, the acceptance that change is possible and the determination to take a stand for change. Kim Michaels..

@Olga, was out till 3:30 or so, had to get up @630
to teach, I win!. @Law, first, before I start, I
just want to say that I appreciate the fact that
your arguments weren't insulting nor rude, which
isn't the norm here. Ok, now, as I just said, I'm
really out of it at the moment, so my usual
stunning debate skills may not be up to par, and
for that, I apologize to everyone for depriving of
the joy that is my discourse, heh. Oh, and I also
just want to suggest that the non native english
speakers who regularly post here read the
definition of Sarcasm, as all too often sarcasm
tends to fly over everyones head, but I digress.
Law, dude, I don't even know where to begin, but
I'll do my best. From reading all your posts,
it's almost as if you're a 5 Percenter and
Hardcore Marxist rolled into one, what with your
comments about profits, etc. then you're 10%
comment is almost exactly what the 5% nation
discusses often, so really just an interesting
combination. Getting back to institutions keeping
people in bondage, what, you think thats a recent
phenomenon? Brit East Asia Company, the Scottish
Lairds penning in their land, on and on, and what,
they were all part of some conspiracy? The strong
and wealthy have always subjugated the weak and
poor, that doesn't mean its some huge conspiracy,
it just means people tend to be greedy and
selfish. Maybe its me, but personally, i think
the whole conspiracy theory thing is the lazy
arguemnt, but thats just me

Totally agree with Will G.

@ Will G

Ok, you win about the lack of sleep. My dark circles are gone thanks to a good concealer but my damn mirror still won't expose my ignorance. They just don't make mirrors like they used to.

If you are a teacher, that would explain your patience and understanding and writing that conspiracy theories are the result of a lazy argument.

Psychology Today had a couple of other explanations and I once posted one of the links - can't remember which article but could have been this link.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200909/field-guide-the-conspiracy-theorist-dark-minds

Olga, great article. And regarding my teaching, I
teach advanced business english and a bunch of
multinationals in Budapest.

@Will g
QUOTE
"Maybe its me, but personally, i think
the whole conspiracy theory thing is the lazy
arguemnt, but thats just me"

I disagree.What constitutes a 'lazy argument' is applying the label 'conspiracy theory' to inconvenient truth/s.Then again,you aren't Norman Finkelstein are you?

@Ricsi
QUOTE
"When will they have the guts to terminate In-Kal?"

In-Kal are deeply embedded in Hungary.Looking at the link provided by Viking for In-Kal,it seems they have 'sanitised' their web site.They seem to have removed a lot of their more dubious links and involvements.I am now curious if this website overhaul was done before or after Hungary's recent election?

Do you remember the info and links I provided a couple of years ago about In-kal?In-Kal is to Hungary what Blackwater is to global security,get it?

On the other hand,it could all just be 'conspiracy theory'could it not Will G ?

"Law, Quick question for you. Define what you
consider absolute proof. As for the whole "semite"
thing, I can't imagine that the majority of jews
living in Isreal now claim to be the original
semitic inhabitants, what with most of them being
European/Ashkenazi, so that's not really the most
shocking statement. I'd even go so far as to say
it's pointing out the extremely obvious...."

Will G at July 29, 2010 4:01 PM

Tell me this then Will G.How can the Israeli govt grant the 'law of return' for non Jews,ie Ashkenazim of oriental descent yet deny Palestinians the law of the right to return?Conspiracy theory or inconvenient truth?

These Palestinians and their descendent's were expelled by the Zionists from 1948 onwards from Palestine aka Israel.If anyone in Palestine/Israel had a real 'claim' to being the 'original semitic inhabitants' then it must surely be the Palestinian 'Arabs'.It is argued by scholars that the Palestinians of today are descendent's of Jews forced to convert to Islam when the Islamic conquests began.Will the real Jew please stand up!

"I admire free speech à l'Américaine, but I think Erik made a mistake in not reviewing comments before they are posted. Law is just using the site to spew anti-Semitism.

In a country that is pathologically nationalist, that's almost essential."

American in Paris and Budapest at July 29, 2010 10:52 AM

Anyone with an iota of intelligence would take what Law says with a pinch of salt.In that you label others and demand censorship is indicative of your authoritarian demeanour.The problem with liberals is their inability to be/act liberal when someone disagrees with their position.

By the way.What in your opinion is your definition of an 'anti-semite'?Is it the Israeli one or is yours more picky,not so 'catch-all' so to speak?

@Law

Law.Cutting and pasting without source is just not done.You would gain more respect and merit were you to debate under your own steam and your own words.Insulting and abusing folk gets you no where fast!Should you not care,then you are your own worst enemy and a liability to those you claim to support.

Take a break from this site.Go south,have a holiday.Liberals in Budapest are so horrid and as for the foreigners in the big city,and elsewhere let them play alone.

@Joe Dick:

Why don't you take your own advice ?

"Take a break from this site.Go south,have a holiday"

"Totally agree with Will G."
Bystander at July 30, 2010 6:37 PM

Why?If you 'totally agree' with what he said in that post then you must be inhaling and exhaling the same hot air or you're as dense as he is.

Um, Sepp, and I'm dense how? I don't like conspiracy
theory?

Dietrich,

Censorship is a more subtle concept.

If the New York Times receives an anti-semitic diatribe by Law and refused to publish it, that's not censorship. Similarly for an online forum. Presumably the owners of that forum have the right to decide what is expressed.

If the Law goes to the Oktogon and preaches that the Jews are condemned to rot in Hell, I believe the government has no right to interfere. However, that doesn't mean that bystanders cannot give him a verbal lashing. As long as they don't threaten violent or become violent.

I am not particularly interested in debating with trash like Law so I would ignore him. He is outside the bounds of civilized conduct.

But I support his right to be uncivilized. That's the American conception of free speech.

"@Joe Dick:

Why don't you take your own advice ?

"Take a break from this site.Go south,have a holiday"
wolfi at July 30, 2010 11:06 PM"

Troll !Do you speak as a German or as a pseudo member of the Judenrat ?

"Um, Sepp, and I'm dense how? I don't like conspiracy
theory?
will G at July 31, 2010 6:16 AM
"

Getting your facts right would be a good start.

ps.Along with the troll aka 'wolfi',you too have got my name wrong.Common courtesy and all that what?

"Dietrich,

Censorship is a more subtle concept.

If the New York Times receives an anti-semitic diatribe by Law and refused to publish it, that's not censorship. Similarly for an online forum. Presumably the owners of that forum have the right to decide what is expressed.

If the Law goes to the Oktogon and preaches that the Jews are condemned to rot in Hell, I believe the government has no right to interfere. However, that doesn't mean that bystanders cannot give him a verbal lashing. As long as they don't threaten violent or become violent.

I am not particularly interested in debating with trash like Law so I would ignore him. He is outside the bounds of civilized conduct.

But I support his right to be uncivilized. That's the American conception of free speech.

American in Budapest at July 31, 2010 12:17 PM"

.........

Censorship is what it is AiB.How it is applied is the problem.Insofar that politics.hu allows Laws insults and abuse to remain is indicative of its political leanings.Wether or not though this lends credence to the sites goals or not I doubt very much.Allowing a rabid dog to mix with other dogs is not a good idea and no one benefits.Cheap tactics are just that.Cheap!Far better to ban him don't you think?

As for 'free speech' the AmeriKan way.I think that it lost its' way a long time ago as it was laid down by the founding fathers.You and I both know that today,there is no such thing as free speech. There is however speech within legislative shackles

When we are in on corruption inside the political class, the Austrian paper Profil just released info on Jörg Haider hid away 45 million Euros in Lichtenstein
-
http://www.profil.at/articles/1030/560/274405/exklusiv-haider-45-millionen-euro-liechtenstein
-
This has caused some uproar in Austria, then Jörg was of course, like all right-wing extremists a champion against corruption
At least others...

Haider's ex-boyfriend said, it was just 45 mio Schilling (3.5 mio €) ...

@Joseph Dietrich, u still didn't answer my question,
since the only actual statement i made referred to
long big businesses have taken advantage of the
little people. Also, calling you "Sepp" wasn't
really meant as an insult, more as a bit of tongue
in cheek, though I'm a bit curious if you know who I
was referring to with the Sepp comment

@will G:

I also wondered if "Sepp Dietrich" was chosen by accident or on purpose - anyone who might be interested in this character should google it ...

Joseph Dietrich@ Good to hear from you again in all shapes and forms!I think you know your argumentative skills are wasted here,too many with eyes closed living in a fantasy,nonetheless it is interesting to watch you display your skills again.

@Joseph Dietrich - welcome back!

@ Curious George

Regarding your welcome comment to J.Dietrich. I thought this person used his real name on this website but clued in there was more to it when I read Wolfi's comment somewhere

So I googled the name and he was another Nazi during the war - never heard of him before.

I copied just one paragraph from a website" At the end of the war Dietrich fled west and surrendered to the USA Army on 8th May, 1945. He was found guilty of killing prisoners of war in Belgium and was sentenced to twenty-five years imprisonment."

I had no idea - did you?

@Olga - I remember reading about him a long time ago. Had to google to refresh who he was.

"killing prisoners of war"

Russians were really nice to POWs. Katyn anyone?
Not to mention the large number of captured soldiers who didn't manage to survive Siberia.

Let's forget about how many German POWs died of mistreatment in allied camps.

War can be hazardous to your health, no matter which side you're on. Being dead is bad.

@Will G

Your 'Sepp' might well be tongue in cheek.I've heard them all before.Do you really think the name Joseph Dietrich is unique to one man.Obviously the trolling retard come pseudo member of the Judenrat aka wolfi seems to think so.

Regarding your welcome comment to J.Dietrich. I thought this person used his real name on this website but clued in there was more to it when I read Wolfi's comment somewhere

I had no idea - did you?
olga at August 1, 2010 9:20 PM

........

Being the guilt ridden ex pat German that he is,wolfi should know the history of his fore fathers and who is who.However,the trolling wolf puts two and two together and makes five.There happens to be more than one Joseph Dietrich you know.Nuremburg only condemned the so called guilty Nazi beasts.They didn't ban their names.It is nice that you learn from the trolls' tips.What would you do without the internet dear Olga ?

I remember reading about him a long time ago. Had to google to refresh who he was.
Curious George at August 1, 2010 9:51 PM

.........
Is that why you call yourself 'Curious George'?

@ Joseph Dietrich

If you recall, I also wrote that "free speech" is what you posted about Israel's foreign policy - there was no hysterics and rage nor did you hold every Jewish person responsible in the world for the Palestinian conflict.

It was not just Wolfie's comment that made me search the name, it was Ricsi's welcoming words.

In retrospect, it was unfair to comment until I read all your postings and see if you would be the type of person who uses his own name or the type who would use a war criminal's name.

I don't have time to read all your postings right now, but I will - in the meantime I am truly sorry if I insulted you without just cause.

@ Joseph Dietrich

Re" "Nuremburg only condemned the so called guilty Nazi beasts " -

I am starting to feel less guilty than 2 minutes ago

Could we hold my Mea Culpa posting until further notice?

@Joseph Dietrich , welcome to the snake pit, hmmm nice to see a trusted figure amongst us :)) I'm not sure whether you been here before however this place is streaming of Askenazi folk.

Seems I was right about "Sepp" - almost every posting of his contains the word "Jew" or "Jude" - well, nothing new under the sun ...

@Wolfi,

No, your hardly ever right about any one or anything.

@JA - Wolfi is not wrong about this!
@JD - Could be.

Russians were really nice to POWs. Katyn anyone?
Not to mention the large number of captured soldiers who didn't manage to survive Siberia
Y at August 1, 2010 10:14 PM
---
True that Siberia was not a vacation place, but
"Alexander Werth writes that "Next to the Jews in Europe, six million of whom perished at the hands of the Germans ... the biggest single German crime was undoubtedly the extermination by hunger, exposure and in other ways of ... [Soviet] war prisoners" (Russia At War, p. 634). Given that the bulk of the gendercide took place in just eight months, it was, together with the genocide in Rwanda, the most concentrated mass slaughter of all time, eclipsing the most exterminatory months of the Jewish holocaust. It was also without doubt the greatest single act of gender-exclusive killing in human history"
-
http://www.gendercide.org/case_soviet.html
-
"In Russian captivity, as in German captivity, the worst lot of all was reserved for the Russians," writes Solzhenitsyn. "... It would appear that during the one thousand one hundred years of Russia's existence as a state there have been, ah, how many foul and terrible deeds! But among them was there ever so multimillioned foul a deed as this: to betray one's own soldiers and proclaim them traitors?" (Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago, p. 240, 256.)"
-
When it come to warfare in WWII our StormFront-friends always knows who to excuse and try to shift the blame

"try to shift the blame"

No, that's what you're trying to do.
War crimes were committed on both sides, only the winners didn't have to pay for them.
Wars are the law of the jungle, the bigger gorilla wins. It has nothing to do with who's right or wrong.
Germans were wrong when they attacked Russia instead of finishing off the Brits. That's why they lost the war.
The other mistake was spending valuable resources on a failed attempt to exterminate Jews. If you don't kill them, you'll only make them stronger.
That's what happened, both the Russians and the Jews survived and became a lot stronger than they should be.
Germany lost its best men in the war, now they are a bunch of pussies, like wolfi.
Shame.

Y wrote: "The other mistake was spending valuable
resources on a failed attempt to exterminate Jews."

Be careful admitting that the Nazis attempted to
exterminate the Jews! Ricsi, JoeD, DoubleH, Law,
LVHJ and their "ilk" will go after you and call you
a Mossad agent!

@ Bystander

Must be nice for you to read how Jews should have been exterminated.

I would like to think they are all mentally ill because that would make me feel better but I know that's not true; how you have the stomach to respond is beyond me. I can just see myself reading that someone would like to see my kids "exterminated" because of my race or religion.

In Toronto:

Being Jewish - non issue

Being Roma - not enough of them to get attention except by skin heads and they are so contemptible, no one pays attention except their fellow low life white trash

@Bystander, Olga - The problem is more widespread than you realize. From today's Guardian. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/aug/02/mongolia-far-right

@CG, yikes! While it was probably a "thin-slice"
of the country, I prefer to think of Mongolia the
way it was represented in that amazing "Weeping
Camel" movie... Hopefully the movement is "on the
wane" like they say in the article.

@Olga who wrote: "I can just see myself reading
that someone would like to see my kids
"exterminated" because of my race or religion."

Yeah, that's a great feeling, it's heartwarming.
Yet the 'proud/fighting Hungarians' we see on this
site seem to have lost the power to put themselves
in other people's shoes... I'll bet if someone
threatened to exterminate *Hungarians*, they'd be
just like ME, and try and defend Hungarians, just
as they *should*.

Yet they seem to not be able to make the mental
leap to understand why people like me take a
defensive posture when we hear people express
remorse that our genocide was not more
"successful".

They should be against attacking people of ANY
nationality/race for nat/race alone.... someday it
could bite Hungarians too, but they're too stupid
to realize that... So I say let them destroy
their own karma and pay for that, I'll be here to
remind them what a-holes they are in the meantime!

Olga and all your ilk@read this and wake up.
Sunday edition

http://zippittydodah.blogspot.com/

"Jews should have been exterminated."

Who said anything about that? If you're referring to my post - which you apparently didn't read very carefully - it calls the "extermination" effort a mistake. Mistake means it should not have been attempted, not the opposite. Get it?

"Being Roma - not enough of them to get attention"

You either suffer from attention deficit disorder, or live in a country where 10% of the population is not Roma. They create a lot of problem, and need lots of attention, and not only in the form of handouts.

"low life white trash"

That seems to be your neighborhood.

@Y,
You must be new here....it wasn't you who denied
that the Nazis were attempting to exterminate the
Jews, it's a number of *other* posters here,
Ricsi, LVHJ, Law, and various others.

I was trying to let you know that in confirming
the notion that there *was* an attempted genocide,
as you said, that you might raise the ire of the
"deniers" who infest this site: "Be careful
admitting that the Nazis attempted to exterminate
the Jews! Ricsi, JoeD, DoubleH, Law, LVHJ and
their "ilk" will go after you and call you a
Mossad agent!"

If I recall correctly the "SHOULD have been
exterminated, but unfortunately the efforts were
unsuccessful" comment came from someone who didn't
leave their name (Anonymous), presumably not you.
I was trying to sarcastically "congratulate" you,
but at this point, never mind! Let's move on
please...

"Seems I was right about "Sepp" - almost every posting of his contains the word "Jew" or "Jude" - well, nothing new under the sun ...
wolfi at August 2, 2010 7:37 AM"

...........

I'm not sure what I dislike most about you(and I don't even know you)the most.Your discourteousness,your muck raking or the plain fact that you are merely a most annoying troll.

In reference to what you said in your odious post above.Should folk bring up a subject involving Israel,Jews or whatever(as did Will G) else you wish to call the inhabitants of Palestine/Israel,then troll,it is pretty obvious to all and sundry that the word 'Jew/s' has to feature somewhere does it not?

I also use the word 'Judenrat' when I refer to you and not 'jude' as you fallaciously infer.

And no,there is nothing new under the sun as your German guilt complex still weighs heavy on your shoulders.Enjoy your burden while you lord it over your Heviz manor.There are no pacts between Lions and men.

Wow, gone for a day and all these new posts are
up, don't know where to begin. Ok, first, I want
to address one thing, the reason i thought it was
rather tongue in cheek for the someone to use the
name Joseph Dietrich on a Budapest based
blog/commentary, is due to the Balaton Offensive,
led by, u guessed, Joseph "Sepp" Dietrich, so
thats why I thought it was amusing....Next, Olga,
I'm a bit surprised you'd never heard of Dietrich,
since he was famous for so many things, though,
I've gotta say that pointing out him being charged
for war crimes as the only notable thing is a bad
mistake here, you know, pander to the lowest form
and all that. By pointing out his worst act, you
make everyone comment on that...just saying.
Next, wartime atrocities...Just finished Anthony
Beevers excellent books, the Battle of Stalingrad
and the Battle of Berlin, and I gotta say, the way
the Soviet troops handled themselves was
absolutely disgraceful, though, in their, um,
don't even want to say defense, but, the
propaganda units of the Red Army did a masterful
job of animalizing the Germans. Suffice to say,
the amount of gang rapes was sickening, and this
is coming from someone who's Grandfather fought in
Stalingrad. Finally, regarding Conspiracy Theory,
Joseph, my whole point is the way people pick and
choose what they feel is the most interesting
thing, without doing real thorough research, and
then stating it's the end all be all and nothing
else is the truth

"Be careful admitting that the Nazis attempted to
exterminate the Jews! Ricsi, JoeD, DoubleH, Law,
LVHJ and their "ilk" will go after you and call you
a Mossad agent!
Bystander at August 2, 2010 6:06 PM "

Be it known 'Bystander' that I resent what it is you are implying.Like I said before,I've heard most of it before.As the troll said, "nothing new under the sun".However,I challenge you to provide written evidence where you seem to maliciously infer I have commented on the holocaust or any other genocide programme on this board.

" The problem is more widespread than you realize. From today's Guardian. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/aug/02/mongolia-far-right
Curious George at August 2, 2010 7:20 PM"

Notwithstanding your source,ie,The Guardian,I think the article is hilarious.If Ghenghis Khan was in the line up then one might have concern for worry.As it stands European 'neo Nazis'are daft enough but a bunch of Mongs?Pull the other one CG.

Here is a movie i recommend

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B35hP_ZO9Jk

"@ Joseph Dietrich

If you recall, I also wrote that "free speech" is what you posted about Israel's foreign policy - there was no hysterics and rage nor did you hold every Jewish person responsible in the world for the Palestinian conflict."

........
But I didn't comment on free speech and Israeli foreign policy.I was discussing the law of return with Will G.Also I never mentioned anything about any person being responsible for any conflict.

.....

"It was not just Wolfie's comment that made me search the name, it was Ricsi's welcoming words."

....
Wolfi the troll is just that.A troll!
.....

"In retrospect, it was unfair to comment until I read all your postings and see if you would be the type of person who uses his own name or the type who would use a war criminal's name.

olga at August 2, 2010 2:30 AM"

Tis nothing new when folk post without reading.However maybe my dad should have named me Sue(Johnny Cash) or even Marlene (Dietrich).That would have thrown the troll would it not?

Greetings Will G
..
"the reason i thought it was
rather tongue in cheek for the someone to use the
name Joseph Dietrich on a Budapest based
blog/commentary, is due to the Balaton Offensive,
led by, u guessed, Joseph "Sepp" Dietrich, so
thats why I thought it was amusing"

....
I sense your sense of humour Will,but to the retards on this board it sends out a completely different message.GeneralOberst Sepp Dietrich may be well known for his failed Balaton offensive Spring Awakening in Hungary,however his military campaigns prior to the Balaton offensive outside of Hungary is extensive and well recorded.

...........

"I've gotta say that pointing out him being charged
for war crimes as the only notable thing is a bad
mistake here, you know, pander to the lowest form
and all that."

.....
Valid point.Even though Dietrich served 25 years for Malmedy,it was troops under the command of Jochen Peiper that committed the act.In a similar vein.Ariel Sharon merely lost his job when the massacres at Chatila and Sabra occurred in Lebanon.This is over 2000 civilians compared to 72 pows.Two weights,two measures 'never again' ho hum.

........
"Finally, regarding Conspiracy Theory,
Joseph"
......

Yes.Much depends on which side one sits on whatever fence.Be it the Twin Towers,the credit crunch,the holocaust(Finkelstein is a must read)the conflict between Vatican I & II,Opus Dei,the Jesuits,illegal immigration etc etc .It all depends(most of the time)where one lies in the political spectrum.

Ariel Sharon merely lost his job when the massacres at Chatila and Sabra occurred in Lebanon.This is over 2000 civilians compared to 72 pows.Two weights,two measures 'never again' ho hum
Joseph Dietrich at August 2, 2010 10:17 PM
---
This was a massacre of Palestinian and Lebanese Muslim civilians carried out between 16 and 18 September 1982 by the Kataeb Party, a Christian Lebanese Forces militia group
The IDF delivered logistics support to this Lebanese private army
The point is of course that the actual perpetrators, Christian Lebanese, never were punished, then who cares about some dead Muslims?

Vikings, someone mentioned it here, Lemay's quote
about if the US had lost, he'd have been charged
with War Crimes. It's always been that way, which
is why I didn't want to bring up the Malmedy
massacre. Do I think Dietrich was out of line, of
course, did most of the combatants do just as bad
if not worse, again, yes, so thats why i felt it
shouldn't have been brought up. Moving on, Joseph,
I've read Finkelstein, Elders of Zion, as well as
the "testimony" of Zundel and Leuchter. Testimony
being in quotations since I for one don't agree
with them, but, the point I'm making is I've tried
to read as much as I can of the topic before
making an informed decision on it, rather than
just reading bits and blurbs from random sources
and then espousing it as the end all be all, which
is why I said conspiracy theory tends to be lazy.
Personally, I tend to believe most of what Shirer
wrote, but, again, thats my PERSONAL BELIEF, and I
wouldn't even bother trying to change someones
mind about it, or push it on someone else. As for
the law of return, if we'd ever meet in person, we
could discuss my whole view over Isreal and their
handling of the Palestinian situation, or rather,
in my opinion, the British' poor partioning and
handling, but again, my opinion only, right?

Vikings, someone mentioned it here, Lemay's quote
about if the US had lost, he'd have been charged
with War Crimes. It's always been that way
Will G at August 3, 2010 10:43 AM
---
Not following the Geneva Convention on treating Prisoners Of War to the letter or even intent, is something probably every combatant have done since the Convention was created
Given that, Nazi-Germany's treatment of Soviet POWs stand out in modern European history. It was a question of targeted extermination, especially during those 8 months
All the other combatants suffered a loss of average 15% of their own POWs during 'enemy' captivity
The Soviet loss was more between 65-85%, a considerable difference
The responsible for that was Nazi-Germany
That the Soviet ex-POWs were treated as traitors after the war just makes their faith so much worse
.
And on the question of mass-rape by Soviet soldiers, this was not specifically targeted against the Germans. It even happened to captured Soviet women, when they were liberated from their slave camps by Soviet forces
When the KGB-archives opened up after 1990 I remember one specific report where one daughter of a high Soviet General was raped by Soviet forces liberating the German camp she was in.
When she later turned to the Soviet Commander of that sector, she was raped as punishment trying to make a report
She finally made a report to the KGB in Moscow and that is the report that was discovered about 50 years later
War do not improve social behavior

"This was a massacre of Palestinian and Lebanese Muslim civilians carried out between 16 and 18 September 1982 by the Kataeb Party, a Christian Lebanese Forces militia group
The IDF delivered logistics support to this Lebanese private army
The point is of course that the actual perpetrators, Christian Lebanese, never were punished, then who cares about some dead Muslims?
Viking at August 2, 2010 11:47 PM "

........

You are correct Viking.I must explain though the comparison I was trying to make in view of what Olga was saying vis a vis 'war criminals'.

Both ie Dietrich and Sharon were convicted indirectly and were both held responsible for the actions of their subordinates(although in Sharons case there was an element of sanctioning I believe).The discrepancy in my opinion lies in the sentencing.Also given that in todays societies where the moral high ground is paramount and precedents are known and quantifiable,then the difference between Dietrichs and Sharons punishments is glaringly obvious and alarming is it not?There appears to be no consistency.

given that in todays societies where the moral high ground is paramount and precedents are known and quantifiable,then the difference between Dietrichs and Sharons punishments is glaringly obvious and alarming is it not?There appears to be no consistency.
Joseph Dietrich at August 3, 2010 11:36 AM
---
Dietrich being on the losing side and Sharon not will always make for a difference
Sharon's bigger crime, in Israel, was probably that he tricked many people into doing a 'limited action', while he had always planned to 'go all the way' to Beirut to finally wipe out PLO
This plan of Sharon was bad from both a political and military point (and it failed also) and fixed the breading-ground for the Lebanese Hezbollah, which came back 20 years later and whipped IDF's ass in Southern Lebanon
That is the crime the Israeli population should remember Sharon for, making Lebanon into Israel's most successful enemy, so far

QUOTE Will G
"which
is why I didn't want to bring up the Malmedy
massacre."

.....
You didn't bring it up,Olga did.For historical accuracy and for Olgas' sake,I put the name in it's rightful place.My fault I suppose though I see no problem in accuracy.

.......
"As for
the law of return"
..........

Aha!The great bone of contention or should I say one of the bones in solving the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.If the world was fair and justice prevailed,then the Palestinians case is rock solid whereas Israels',in my opinion,is non existent.The terminology 'law of return' should have no place in Israels case.

....
"but again, my opinion only, right?"

....

Yes.I respect your opinion/s.It is what makes the world go round and common decency.We dance around volatile subjects where inconvenient truths are disguised by some as 'conspiracy theory' though the creation of the constructed term 'conspiracy theory' will never deter serious and just inquiry.

Lol, Joseph, thats exactly what I didn't want to get
into on this forum. If Stan tells me when the next
get together is, I'll come and we can discuss it in
person. There is no way I'll get into my views
here. Viking, read Anthony Beever's book on the
Battle of Berlin, lots of sourced data regarding the
Red Army violations, and yes, in numerous cases they
were polish, Ukrainian and Russian women. One of
the worst parts about this is how many Russians even
now still don't know the extent of the violations.

@Will G
Isn't Anthony Beever's book too mainstream? And are they available in bookstores or only through internet?
Are there any Authors that you can recommend who don't pull any punches? Or is this something that you can only discuss with Stan the man?

@ Joseph Dietrich

Someone was surprised I never heard of Joseph Dietrich the war criminal – Once I could pick my courses after high school, I did not study WWII on purpose so I can only think of a few men who were tried in Nuremberg. I remembered Goering’s famous quote (cut and paste) and only posting it because it’s so relevant today:

“Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."

BTW, this is the source I goggled for JD – I have no intentions of learning more about him - this shall suffice: http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Joseph_Dietrich

The statement that he was notorious for his mistreatment of prisoners of war, led to a whole discussion about how others treated POWs Mistreatment of POWs is the same crime regardless of their nationalities – it’s not a contest of who was more evil and sadistic and which war had the worst examples.

cont...

@ Joseph Dietrich (cont)

IMHO, sentencing procedures for other war criminals in different times and different wars are irrelevant . I only see relevance if you compared the sentences and the fairness of those convicted in Nuremberg.

Nevertheless your calling the accused “so called Nazi beasts” is akin to calling one of Stalin’s henchmen a “so called depraved Communist beast” - Try that on this website and see what happens compared to the silence your comment caused.

Re: “But I didn't comment on free speech and Israeli foreign policy” I didn’t say you did. At one point you said there was no such things as free speech and there was free speech within legislative shackles. Some of the postings on Israeli foreign policy on this website would pass for “hate speech” according to Canadian laws and I mentioned your postings (the ones I am familiar with ) would demonstrate “free speech” regardless of the subject matter. Whatever you said could be said at any gathering in Canada without a stir.
What's this about "shackles"?

Re: "German guilt" – Germans should be proud of the way they dealt with the aftermath of WWII and holding Germans responsible for Hitler’s atrocities makes as much sense as blaming any religion ,race or nationality for past and present atrocities they had or have no say or control over.

What would I do without the Internet? I would not be reading politics.hu nor would I be able to respond to your question.

Law, the reason I bring up Beever's 2 books is that every
single thing in his book is referenced, and he gives all the
sources, be it soviet archives, german archives, etc, so all
in all a good read.

Hi Will G
I found this site and he has quite a few books available, also the Spansih civil war looks intersting, this is one area of history i haven't read much about.. Thanks
http://www.antonybeevor.com/

"I found this site and he has quite a few books available, also the Spansih civil war looks intersting, this is one area of history i haven't read much about.. Thanks
http://www.antonybeevor.com/
Law at August 3, 2010 7:03 PM "

........

Interesting link Law.Hopefully you and Will G will be able to spell Beevors name correctly lol.

@Will G.I have read both Stalingrad and Battle for Berlin by Beevor.Both excellent,well balanced.Stalingrad is a must read and rather tragic and sad.

This is quite heart renching

The truth can be unpalatable, Beevor discovered, when he wrote that Russian soldiers, most of them drunk, had raped at least 2m German women during the long advance on Berlin. He called it “a pornography of horror”, noting that the screams rang through the darkened ruins of Berlin every night. However, Grigory Karasin, Russia’s ambassador to Britain, called Beevor’s work “an act of blasphemy” against the Russian people and those who had suffered under Nazism.

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/non-fiction/article6395783.ece

Hi again,

i am back . Stan,will.G i see proposals to meet again. Hope to get a few more discussion partners
onboard (various views will only enhance debate)

so where and when ??(suggest next week wednesday,
12:00,spinoza cafe,dob utca...or is this too jewish..??:)

That place is a dungeon lair.. All gay waiters.

Make it Club64

@Law:

Thanks for the info!

"That place is a dungeon lair.. All gay waiters."

Hope to get there soon.

law , i admit i have not noticed . How stupid of me to suggest a place with gay-waiters..??
Actually how do know that all the waiters are gay there? Is this the first thing you investigate(how?) when you enter a cafe,restaurant,bar in Budapest?

laW ,in one of your previous postings you asked a number of questions? I would go a bit more deep:

Shellings question: "Why is there something rather than nothing?" has aleays been answered
in 2 different ways. The first might me called
the philosophy of "oops".The universe just occurs,there is nothing behind it,it's all accidental or random,it just is.However the philosophy of "oops",no matter how sophisticated
put,comes down to the same basic answer: "Don't ask".The question itself (why is anything happening?why am i here?)the question itself is said to be confused,pathological,nonsensical or infantile.To stop asking silly questions is the amrk of maturity,the sign of growing up in the cosmos.
I do not think so.Something else is going on.Behind the happenstance drama is a deeper
or higher pattern or order or intelligence.(tao,
god,Geist,Maat,Li,Mahamaya,Brahman etc etc.)
And altthough they all differ in many points they
all come to the same conclusion that something else is going on,something else than "OOPS"

15 biilion years ago there was absolute nothing,then within less than a nanosecond the material universe blew into existence.Stranger still ,the physical matter seemed to organize itself into more and more complex forms.Some of them found ways to reproduce themselves and thus out of matter arose life.Even stranger these life forms began a long evolution to represent themselves via signs,symbols and concepts and thus out of life arose mind.

But stranger still,a mere few hundred years ago on a small and indifferent planet around an insignificant star,evolution became conscious of itself.And at precisely the same time,the very mechanismn that allowed evolution to become conscious of itself were simultaneously working to engineer its own extinction.
And that is the strangest of all.

What do you thing why?

Judas, you hatched from an egg like all serpents do.

@Law - Not all snakes hatch from eggs.

@CG and his Shadow judas
I was invited to a play 5 years ago and noticed the waiters poofy mannerism ,i made sure i washed my hands after making that transaction. However that was the first and last time I ever step into dob utca or its surrounding streets, its a dark side to Pest.. one can sense the lower reptilian energy vibrating in that zone, any positive Angelic being with good sense can pick up on this vibe.

To keep it simple for the fallen ones, Our sphere began with the void or emptiness outside this sphere is allness, this void is where our material earth is expanding to be more of the allness we beings are here to co create to raise the vibration of the void to balance with the outer sphere of allness , now once this is done collectively then we have achieved our mission for this life stream.
There are many beings or life streams with different individual talents helping accomplish this mission, and the fallen ones use the average Joe as their source of energy because they refuse to accept that they are here to help others to achieve oneness.
See Judas and CG are the ones blinded by pride, the bottom 10% who try maintain their existence by stealing the light from innocent beings who haven’t the awareness as of yet, however as the second law of thermodynamics, where you understand what this law actually means for a civilization, a nation, a group of people or even an individual it states very simply that if a system becomes closed, becomes isolated from anything outside itself, then disorder will increase in that system, until the system breaks down to the lowest possible energy state and collapse, an example is Israel which is due to collapse in the near future.

Curious George and Judas

Please stop stealing the light from innocent beings

Think of the gay waiters, they need some light so they can don't mix up the orders.

Princess Ogre: You get the prize for making me laugh first tonight.

Olga - well, if the gay waiters need light, then they shouldn't stand so close to the back hole. I mean black hole.

"the second law of thermodynamics, where you understand what this law actually means ..."

Where does Law get all this info ? I thought it was only available to the Illuminati ...

"To keep it simple for the fallen ones, Our sphere began with the void or emptiness outside this sphere is allness"

So what are we fallen ones to do ?

wolfi: well, clearly the first step is to learn how to break free of all the earthly shackles that bind us to this imperfect, fallen state...
...such as grammar.

@ Tsar

re: "clearly the first step is to learn how to break free of all the earthly shackles that bind us to this imperfect, fallen state...
...such as grammar.

When I read some of my own postings, I clearly need to break free of earthly shackles to improve my grammar;

Kindly forward links to Law's sources.

BTW, he posted a link to a book I want to read and it has nothing to do with the name "olga"

I am yet to mention a book to you that you are not familiar with - have you read :

Antony Beevor, The Mystery of Olga Chekhova

Guys, wokring 2 Jobs at the moment, so it's gotta be
the weekends. How's saturday? Remember where we met
last time?

Dear Princess Ogre:
It is on this very night that you are visited with a favour that has thus eluded you. For despite having ascended beyond the realms of the fallen into the half-light that exists between the chamber and closet of rushing waters, I have yet to encounter these writings of which you speak. Perhaps when you attain the higher level of consciousness as I have, you can transfer your new-found learnednessednessedness by illuminating the great fibre-optics of the ether to my ever-attuned, illuminatory-sensitive intuituitiveness.

I'd like to make it clear that I, too am a big fan
of the Beaver.

@Bystander,

That was funny...

However, Grigory Karasin, Russia’s ambassador to Britain, called Beevor’s work “an act of blasphemy” against the Russian people and those who had suffered under Nazism
Law at August 4, 2010 11:07 AM
---
And this is very much mainstream opinion in Russia of today. The Russia Jobbik loves to love

@Viking yes the Jewish Elite were behind the Soviets Horror machine during the WW2, Putin has done a terrific job of clearing out the Jewish Oligarchs and encouraging Christianity, one step closer to improving the collective condition of the nation, instead of the Jewish Totalitarian influence that ruined peoples faith and brought death and destruction to Europe for decades to follow.

Hmm...you know what they say, there's no such thing as an ex-communist. Who was Putin's previous employer?
-
Hey, don't get me wrong, the world is much better off for having a stable Russia as opposed to the mess it was becoming pre-Putin. I don't think anyone should be so naive to think that Putin has any real sympathy for Christianity. ...a means to an end.

I don't think anyone should be so naive to think that Putin has any real sympathy for Christianity. ...a means to an end.
Tsar Cyanide the Toxic at August 4, 2010 7:49 PM
---
Yes, "Christians" like Roman Arkadyevich Abramovich (Russian: Рома́н Арка́дьевич Абрамо́вич)
-
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article3835003.ece
-
Funny that Law/Jobbik never have a problem with UK's richest Jew, just because he was Putin's "enforcer"
So, maybe there *is* hope for Law (but probably not for Mr. Lobotomy)?

Abramovich is a common criminal, grown into a major criminal. He fits right into the so called "European norms", he's got money. That's all that matters in our sick society.

Law, remember where we talked about Conspiracy
Theory? well, here goes....Can u source that
comment, about the Jewish Elite being behind the
Soviet Horror Machine in WW2?

Sverdlov ordered the massacre of the Czar's family--women and children ... Genrikh Yagoda: chief of Soviet Secret Police, mass murderer extraordinaire. ... Ehrenburg instigated the Soviet Red Army rape and murder of German civilians. ... Kun's eventual successor was Matyas Rakosi, Jewish Communist mass murderer

http://americansw.blogspot.com/2010/06/sorcha-faal-light-bringer-or-faallen_29.html

That's all that matters in our sick society.
Y at August 5, 2010 4:48 AM
----
So why no criticism from Jobbik and its supporters against Putin for having no problem with the Jew Roman Arkadyevich Abramovich?
The support for Putin from Jobbik and its supporters is based on the fight Putin had with some other rich Jews, that Roman Arkadyevich Abramovich helped to unload their wealth from
Maybe Putin was not doing all this to fight the Jews (as Jobbik and its supporters call it), but it was just an internal fight in the Russian Cheka?
-
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/markets/europe/article1263977.ece
-
Meaning Jobbik and its supporters just support the current leading faction in the Russian Cheka

Russia and the east zone is a huge opportunity for export, which would be suicidal if not considered by Hungary.
Putin has done a remarkable task in removing the shackles of foreign debt to the IMF , this is why the western media is targeting his success, Russia is re generating it's sovereignty and independence as a nation.
The International Zionist led monetary system will not sit still, It will strike from every angle to de throne a nation from achieving sovereignty, so we have these EU and United nations Zionist lead organisations attempting to introduce laws to divide and achieve this goal.
The western media propaganda which is criticizing Putin are just wolves in sheep’s clothing out to manipulate the evidence.

@Law - what products would you export (hungarian or also non-hungarian). What would be the annual value?

People like you.

Value is priceless!

@Law - Just like you exported your fellow Hungarians to the camps?

@ CG No!!! Your regime and race of Hypocrites. The agreement between the Nazi authorities and the Jewish Agency for Palestine - a 'Ha'avarah', or Transfer Agreement, which provided that an emigrant to Palestine could transfer his money there in German goods and exchange them for pounds upon arrival. You collaborated with the Nazi party..

Nazis supported Zionism because it promised the largest emigration of Jews from Germany

Viking@Idiot,one is Israel/jew owned the other is Hungarian--Follow me???
Ricsi at July 28, 2010 7:32 PM
---
You and other Hungarians should be concerned about having an armed, foreign, especially Israeli security firm in Hungary. They could be used to murder Hungarians just as the AVO was. They are national security threat.
The Magyar Garda is not an armed organization and they are sworn to protect Hungary, not foreign interests. Orban is either an idiot or an Israeli puppet not to see the benefit and the need for Magyar Garda. Members of Magyar Garda should be armed and should receive proper training so that they can act in defense of Hungary if/when they are needed.

LHVJ,

so the logical conclusion is:

Why does your beloved magyar garda does not simply
create a registered and approved security company???

@Law - Just like you exported your fellow Hungarians to the camps?
Clueless George at August 5, 2010 10:39 AM
---
That is a lie. Horthy resisted Hitler’s demands to get the Jews and managed to keep him off until the German occupation of Hungary. Even after the German occupation of Hungary, many Hungarians helped Jews hide from the Germans and saved them.
What did the Hungarians got for helping the Jews? They got the most brutal, most sadistic, mass murderer Rakosi Jewish regime that Europe has ever seen.
The sadistic Jewish AVO repaid the Hungarians for helping them with mass executions, torture and murder of many thousands and enslavement of Hungarian people.
The irony is that given the same circumstances, Hungarians would again do their best to protect the Jews from those who would want to exterminate them. For that, some would call the Hungarians stupid while others would point to their humanity.
It is because Hungarians are not like the German and Jewish Nazis:
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/index.html

Yeah, yeah, we've heard it all before - the 'people exporting' group was just a 'small' bunch of Hungarians.

Law - With all the bad press about 'people exporting, why do you want to get back into that business with Russia? Weren't enough Hungarians already 'exported' there in the past?

Your an exceptional case.

@ Tsar

Hey - thanks for getting straight to the point and letting me know you didn't read the book.

Re: "It is on this very night that you are visited with a favour that has thus eluded you"

You are psychic -I woke up to a terrible noise at 4 a.m. and when my husband investigated it was a huge raccoon eating breakfast with a turned- over garbage can that I didn't close properly. That's you idea of a favour?

@Clueless George at August 5, 2010 12:43 PM

I am sure that a much higher percentage of Jew took part in Communist atrocities against Hungarians than Hungarians against Jews. If for no other reason, the Rakosi and Kadar terror lasted many years while the Nyilas were in power just a few months.

Most Hungarians are much too timid to throw your slurs and accusations right back at you and that may be one of the reasons why you are shoving so much garbage out about your holocaust but hardly ever anything on Communist crimes and the disproportionate role of Jews in Communist crimes.

You claim to have lived in Hungary for a number of years. If that was true, you could understand this video AVOSOK. It is based on historical facts:

http://tdyweb2.wbteam.com/Avosok_1.htm

Princess Ogre: For to send thee a message via the feeding Racoon is not agreeable to thee? Wouldst though have preferred I make such a pronouncement that questions the honour of your conduct with the masculine gender?
I think not.
Accept the racoon for herein lies the secret to succeeding in your first step to enlightenment. What message was the racoon projecting to thee?

@ Tsar

re: "Wouldst though have preferred I make such a pronouncement that questions the honour of your conduct with the masculine gender?"

Would it have been a more exciting experience than a raccoon, a garbage can, and a swearing husband in the middle of the night?

Hard to decide when i don't have all the facts before me.

Oh OGRE! At what stage will your realise that the facts are not the facts, because they are facts built on lies. They're all lies except for the ones that aren't, in which case they're Truth...with a capital 'T'. Unfortunately, your low state of enlightenment prevents you from truly seeing the trueness of the Truth in all its truthicity. Only when you are prepared to accept your ignoramusness will you be able to see that you are incapable of understanding anything for yourself in which case you have finally understood that you can't understand anything. All you have to do is extend your sentences, speak in circles, throw in a few non-sequiturs, both fish and snakes have scales, string on something metaphysical like the relationship between physics and the toilet habits of angels and finally you have become something like a phenomenon...something like a phenomenon, something like a phenomenon.
Listen to the racoon, it is speaking to you. What is it saying? ...probably something like "Garbage in Garbage out."

Back to earth:

This story reminds me of my journey along highway 1 from San Francisco to LA.

At a gas station somewhere near Big Sur I watched a garbage can dancing around, making strange noises - until I found the courage to open the lid - and saw a raccoon leaving as fast as possible ...

What does this tell us - o mighty Czar of synchronicity (hope I got this right) ?

@Wolfi, Listen to the raccoon, dammit!

"Accept the racoon for herein lies the secret..."

There's got to be a Politics.hu Hall of Fame created
for noteworthy postings on this site. I especially
enjoyed his "channeling" of Law...

@Lobotomy - I don't understand Hungarian, but I'm sure that video is the usual bullshit anyway. I didn't claim to have 'lived' in Hungary for a number of years, just this board. It is my wife who is based here, not me (even if I do teach some students while I am here). I've always said, my work & home is outside Hungary.

I don't care about, or believe the 'percentages' you're hawking on the Commies & Arrow Cross rednecks. I believe in individual responsibilities. I also know right from wrong. I can also see you & Law have more in common, and are probably even related to people like Kadar, Rakosi, & Szalasi. However, as far as I'm concerned the Commie and Arrow Cross eras are over, even if people like you can still bring them back.

While I'm here, I'm more interested in making sure that my students understand the world they live in, and are prepared for the changes & challenges they are going to face. I want them to realize that their world is not limited by physical borders, or someone else' past, and they can still (legally & ethically) make what they want of it without making excuses.

Tsar Cyanide the Toxic at August 5, 2010 7:19 PM

@Olga,

Forgive me for what I am about to say...but you have to admit, it is true.

@Tsar,

The above referenced post...absolutely brilliant. You truly are a gifted writer.

Each time I read it, the harder I laugh. I'm serious when I say, you had me crying from laughing so hard.

Thanks for that. One question though...why are you attaching Cin's site to your handle?

@Clueless
I pity your student for having such an idiot such as you teach them about the world. How can you teach anyone anything if you cannot even view and understand a video about the most important things that happened to Hungarians?
If this video about the AVOSOK is bullshit than your holocaust, movies and documentaries are also bullshit.
You come her with your double standard and call others Nazis and other names but all you have to do is look into a mirror to see a Nazi.

The Arrowcross were choirboys compared to the German and Jewish Nazis:
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/index.html

wolfi: I am staggered by your clear lack of awareness. Nevertheless I will condescend to answer out of compassion for your limited state of being. You saw a racoon in a bin, Princess Ogre saw a racoon in a bin, Bystander thought it was all very amusing, and is or is not Bystander Jewish? ...and of course, we all know there are no racoons in Israel. Coincidence? I think not. Come now wolfi, allow your mind to float free in the river of dreams that flows beyond the sheltering sky where every breath you take brings on the second coming of the king of pain.Despair not though for if you are willing to open your consciousness to Jung's true wisdom, it won't be long before Miss Gradenko is wrapped around your finger and will forever walk in your footsteps.

@Lobotomy - While you may think that Hungarian history is the most important thing for my students, I dont. They already know Hungarian history (probably better than you since they live here), and I don't need to teach it to them, or even know Hungarian to understand it.

The most important thing for my students are to understand what is going to have the biggest impact on their lives for the next 40 years, not what happened 50 or 100 years ago. I think understanding the developments in China, India, Brazil, and other countries, and how it is going to change their lives is more relevant. Do you think those countries care about the AVO, Trianon, or Commie's, and are going to wait for Hungary before they exercise their influence on the world stage. In the whole realm of things, I think it is more important for them (& me) to learn Chinese, Spanish, Russian, Arabic, or even Portuguese.

I'm not sure what you mean by "my holocaust". Do you think I am now a Burka wearing Jew? Are all Hungarians as clueless as you about the real world, or are you just one of the dumb ones?

@Clueless
Heard some stupid excuses from people defending their ignorance but this one takes the price.

@LHVG
Yes CG gets the medal, lets all celebrate.

@Law, Lobotomy - Gee, thanks for the medal, guys! You're too kind. I just wanna check, is the IMF paying for it too?

@Law and LXNCH:

"Desiree Alliance, the highly-respected sex workers' rights organisation, will be hosting the National Sex Worker Conference taking place in Las Vegas this summer, from July 25 - July 30. The theme: 'Working Sex: Power, Practice, and Politics'.

Registration is now open; volunteers are also welcome."

You missed this - but there is time enough to prepare for the next conference ...

@ justasking

The Tsar is = to Cin. Did you not know, or were you kidding?

BTW, I say your eloquent posting somewhere defending my honour and this morning your bill arrived - I thought the defense was pro bono and you were my friend.

I should have listened to the Tsar and the raccoon and saw that you were merely an opportunist.

Wolfi - glad you picked up on the "real PiP"

Mark/LVHJ/Lobott:

Do you have a special key programmed on your
computer so that with just the press of a single
button you can paste in your favorite link?

http://whatreallyhappened.com/MARK-HAD-A-JEW-STEAL-
HIS-BLOW-UP-DOLL-AND-HE-IS-RIGHTLY-ANGRY-BOUT-THAT/

Do you get like a forint for each sub-human you send
over to that site or what?

Since LYNCH is so fond of the words "Village Idiot" - here's something for him:

"The wisest thing to do with a [Village Idiot] is to encourage him to hire a hall and discourse to his fellow citizens. Nothing chills nonsense like exposure to air."
Woodrow Wilson
(1856-1924) U. S. President

BTW: That describes the reaction on this site to his rantings perfectly ...

@Olga/Cin,

Bloody Hell!!! With all these name changes, I don't know who's who anymore.

So, truly, I did not know that Cin was Tsar and Tsar was Cin....

Still think he should be published, judging by the poems he allowed me to read. Seriously.

As for working pro bono...nothing in life is free. Everyone and everything has a price...It's just up to the individual to find out what that price is.

As for being an opportunist, well of course I am you silly billy!

Don't tell me you haven't heard? Come on! Not everything Law writes/says is bullshit :))

LHVJ
.
Lopott Holmi Visszajár!
….Lopott Holmi Visszajár!
……..Lopott Holmi Visszajár!
.
http://www.hungarylootedart.com/
.
Lopott Holmi Visszajár!
Stolen Property Must Be Returned!
...Stolen Property Must Be Returned!
......Stolen Property Must Be Returned!
.
Go home to Gaza, scumbag
You can have some Hamas Hummus there
Before they chop your infidel head off

I would send you home you scumbags but you have no home. The home you claim belongs to the Palestinians.
Zionazis steal the Palestinians’ land; destroy their homes and their fields, murder helpless Palestinian women and children for sport. They murder Palestinian young men to use and sell their organs.

Palestinian Land Losses
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/6761/palastinianlandloss8tz.gif

There is no thief like a Zionazi thief.

Yes Zionazi, lopott holmi visszajár

LYNCH, you're tiresome ...

Why don't you go home (wherever that might be ...) and lynch yourself ...

But wait:

Every person has its use - especially you as a deterrent/dissuasive example ...

LHVJ,

Arabs have no claim to a monopoly on the lands known formerly as Palestine. The Jewish presence in Palestine has been constant since the dawn of history. Both archeology and history bear testament.

Nor is it surprising that the Jews wanted to return to Palestine after the Holocaust. It was the logical step.

The Arab Palestinians were unwilling to accept a Jewish state in their midst and their Arab neighbors fought and lost numerous wars in their attempt to annihilate the State of Israel.

Many of your claims of atrocities and human rights are exaggerated or simply fabrications.

Israel has a large Arab population, which ironically enjoys a higher economic status and better human rights than the vast majority of Arabs living in their typical corrupt one party dictatorships. If Israel on a par with Nazi Germanys, those Arabs would have been killed a long time ago.

It is supremely ironic that right wing Hungarians, who dream of a revived Hungarian empire, which would include the absorption of parts of Romania, Austria, and the Slovak Republic, would identify with the Palestianians. It seems to me that you should be identifying with the religious Jews that believe the West Bank is also part of the promised land.

Extreme right wing Hungarians = extrem right wing Jewish settlers.

Sounds like 'sympathy of convenience'. A way of trying to justify your prejudice and backwardness.

Arabs have no claim to a monopoly on the lands known formerly as Palestine. The Jewish presence in Palestine has been constant since the dawn of history. Both archeology and history bear testament.
Zionazi in Budapest at August 7, 2010 12:22 PM
---
That is the typical Zionazi justification for stealing Arab lands. It is a variation of Hitler’s claim that countries with ethnic German populations belong to Germany. Same garbage, a different time, same Nazis ideas dressed up a little different.
The rest of your post does not deserve an answer because you do not know what I want for Hungary. “Extreme right wing Hungarians” may be your fantasies but they are not in Jobbik or the Magyar Garda. The “extreme right wing Jewish settlers” are running Nazi Israel.

And now a quote from LYNCH (slightly modified):

"It is a variation of Hitler’s claim that countries with ethnic Hungarian populations belong to Hungary. Same garbage, a different time, same Nazis ideas dressed up a little different.

Interesting - isn't it ?

Germany vs. Israel‏
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/index.html

Part one.
QUOTE American in Budapest.

"Arabs have no claim to a monopoly on the lands known formerly as Palestine. The Jewish presence in Palestine has been constant since the dawn of history. Both archeology and history bear testament."

......

The Arabs do not claim monopoly of Palestine.They seek redress and a return to the 1967 borders as mandated by the UN.Extreme elements of the Palestinians (fruit cakes)seek total control which leads me to your next bit.The Jewish presence has been constant but as I have said before,many scholars today believe that many Palestinians are indeed the original Jews.They converted to Islam when the Arab conquests began.In this context and as mere 'Palestinians',they have more right of abode in Israel than do the Ashkenazim 'Jews' who originally hailed from Khazaria(modern archeology supports the Khazar empire).

........
"Nor is it surprising that the Jews wanted to return to Palestine after the Holocaust. It was the logical step. "

............
This is incorrect.Zionism as put forth by Theodor Hertzel(Ashkenazim)already proposed a 'homeland' for the diaspora.This was sanctioned by the British govt in 1917 by the Balfour declaration.It had nothing to do with the holocaust.Zionist organisations needed European 'Jews' to populate Palestine.The Nationalist Socialist govt of Germany wanted Jews out of Germany and later on,out from German occupied territory too.

"[H]ad I been a Jew, I would have been a fanatical Zionist. I could not imagine being anything else.In fact, I would have been the most ardent Zionist imaginable."—A. Eichmann

Part two.
QUOTE American in Budapest
"The Arab Palestinians were unwilling to accept a Jewish state in their midst and their Arab neighbors fought and lost numerous wars in their attempt to annihilate the State of Israel."

..........
I would disagree here also AiB.Zionist aggression and Palestinian expulsions led to the conflict/s with the Arabs.The use of the word annihilate is rather strong.The Jews and the fledgling state of Israel were not as weak as one is led to believe.They were surprisingly well armed(stolen British and looted equipment). Many men were well trained and had combat experience gained during WW2,ie the Jewish Brigade.The financial and military assistance from the USA and powerful merchant banking families(the Rothschilds)is also a given fact.The Arabs on the other hand were very much as they are today,a disorganized rabble unable to co-ordinate themselves.The Arabs were not as fanatical as the Zionists.
All in all,the Zionists had everything to gain and nothing to lose.

.......

"Israel has a large Arab population, which ironically enjoys a higher economic status and better human rights than the vast majority of Arabs living in their typical corrupt one party dictatorships."

.......

Israels Arab-Israeli population makes up just over 20% of the total population.Within that 20%,there are Muslim Arabs,Christian Arabs,Bedouins,Circassians.Of the Jews.38%are Ashkenazim.

Haider's ex-boyfriend said, it was just 45 mio Schilling (3.5 mio €) ...
wolfi at July 31, 2010 10:02 PM
---
Profil, an Austrian paper, is continuing to expose Haider's old money:
-
http://www.profil.at/articles/1031/560/274862/joerg-haiders-geldgeschaefte-diktator-saddam-hussein
-
Now it is that Haider got 5 MUSD together with Ewald Stadler on a trip to Saddam Hussein's Iraq in 2002. For the money Haider and his extreme right wing party would make propaganda for Saddam Hussein's Iraq and work against the US.
The money was also supposed to support political allies in Austria, Germany and Croatia, smuggled via Lichtenstein.
That Haider had close relations to extreme right-wing organizations in Hungary, like MIEP and Jobbik is no secret. Just read the coming posts from pro-Jobbik posters that will defend Haider's legacy

Joseph,

1. We all know that Zionism predates the Holocaust, but the Holocaust was a key motivating factor in establishing the State of Israel. Afterall, the vast majority of current day Israels are the descendants of Jewish refugees. The Holocaust provided both the motivation and population for the State of Israel.

It is very unlikely the State of Israel could have been founded without the mass immigration from Europe and that immigration was caused by the Holocaust.

And the UN's recognition was clearly driven by the Holocaust as well.

2. The vast majority of Mideast Arabs would prefer to see the State of Israel destroyed. It's rubbish to say that they just want a return to the 1967 borders.

They also insist on the Right of Return, which is obviously unacceptable to Israel.

3. Finally, let's put the mythologies into the dumpster. The Jews are the Jews. There are no lost tribes whether the Mormons or the Palestinian Arabs.

In fact, genetic analysis shows Jewishness does have a genetic component. There is genetic commonality between Ethiopian and European Jews. And Palestian Arabs do not share that commonality.

"In fact, genetic analysis shows Jewishness does have a genetic component. There is genetic commonality between Ethiopian and European Jews"

American in Budapest at August 8, 2010 12:53 AM

Hmmm, would that be considered racist comment if it were to have come from me...a Hungarian Canadian Catholic? Would I immediately be called an anti-Semite and have the ADL on my ass?

What exactly does 'genetic analysis, genetic component and genetic commonality' mean in English?

Would the shape of their noses, weak chins and innate fear of their Mothers be considered genetic commonality?

They also insist on the Right of Return, which is obviously unacceptable to Israel
American in Budapest at August 8, 2010 12:53 AM
---
So ethnic cleansing is OK?

Research studies on Jewish genetic commonality:

http://humangenetics.suite101.com/article.cfm/scattered-seeds-two-new-studies-trace-jewish-genetic-history

@justasking

I can't remember the details but I knew someone who wrote her PHD thesis about the correlation between race, ethnic background and certain diseases.

I copied a self-explanatory paragraph from the Internet below. Moreover, I also remember reading about bodies being found where only skeletons remained and DNA could identify race and/or ethnicity

"Ethnic Background -- Some genetic disorders are particularly common among those of a specific racial or ethnic background. For example, sickle cell disease is found most often among persons of African ancestry; Tay-Sachs disease most often in persons of Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry; and Cystic fibrosis among persons who are Caucasian."

If "genetic disorders" can be identified than it follows that other genetic information can be identified as well

Hey, I wonder if Scientists isolated the Tiszta Magyar genes - we could get tested and while you will get a "positive" I may find out why I only wanted cards and crystal balls for Christmas during my childhood.

Viking,

I would be surprised if this wasn't at least some ethnic cleansing in the founding of the State of Israel.

But the degree matters and I don't believe you are going to be able substantiate that it was on the same level as Kosovov or other acts of European ethnic cleansing. By the way, ethnic cleansing is usually defined as a state policy. I suspect you will have problems proving Israel guilty of ethnic cleansing in that case.

Let me remind you the Europeans as North Americans have engaged in massive ethnic cleansing over the last two thousand years in the process of nation building.

In any case the State of Israel exists just as Hungary and US exist and all three countries engaged in discrimination and ethnic cleansing.

Should we abolish Hungary, Israel, and the US because there was ethnic cleansing in the past?

I don't think so ...

Any such act would cause as much harm and be as injust as the original ethnic cleansing it was designed to offset.

Should we abolish Hungary, Israel, and the US because there was ethnic cleansing in the past?
American in Budapest at August 8, 2010 3:48 PM
---
No, and that was never the question
The question is why your statement:
"They also insist on the Right of Return, which is obviously unacceptable to Israel
American in Budapest at August 8, 2010 12:53 AM"
is so obvious?
Why would people who fled in war not be allowed to return to their homes?
Is that your answer to the people who fled Bosnia to Sweden and other countries, that they should never be allowed to go back from where they fled?
Is that your answer to descendants of the Jewish Holocaust that would like to get back what were their (grand-)parents in Hungary?
The wonderful with Human Rights Principles are that they apply to everyone, everywhere

@Olga,

"If "genetic disorders" can be identified than it follows that other genetic information can be identified as well"

olga at August 8, 2010 3:40 PM

Although I am not a Geneticist, from my understanding...it would be yes and no answer regarding certain 'genetic information can being identified'.

That was one of my points. What genetic information was identified?

And please, could I have the results from a group of scientists that have not been funded for the report from the Rothschild Foundation?

Funny how everybody wants to have a one-way street, the ability to cut down others. God forbid however, if they end up on the receiving end of a cut down or even a perceived cut down for that matter which is usually the case.

And that...was my second point.

Just Asking,

Journal reference: Doron Behar et al., "The Genome-wide structure of the Jewish people," Nature, 9 June, 2010 (doi: 10.1038/nature09103).

As you know, Nature is the premier science journal. Its standards are quite rigorous.

Hi Viking,

The answer is simple. It would undermine the State of Israel and be equivalent to national suicide.

However, that doesn't mean that can't be a Right of Return to a Palestian State ...

But it is up to the Israelis to decide who to admit to their society.

By the way, Israel is too small as it is. It would be impractical to admit several million Palestinian refugees.

One reason it is so difficult to stop settlement building is because space is so dear. It's politically difficult to say 'no'.

@justasking and A. in Bp

I am not particularly interested in the history of the Jewish people , nor did I know a year ago they were divided into groups “Ashkenazi and Sephardic. (I have two very close Jewish girlfriends and I don’t care about either their genes nor their ancestors)

My history courses were limited to Europe between 1500 to the start of WWII - I hardly remember “Jewish issues” but I do remember “Roma problems”

In the mid-18th century, Maria Theresa enacted legislation to force Roma assimilation, forcing Roma children to be taken away from their parents and live amongst non-Roma within the Hapsburg Empire – these kids grew up and did not marry Roma; displaced Roma were referred to as "New Magyars" which always stuck in my memory

4 decrees were issued during her reign, I can only remember 2 – one was to forbid the Roma to own horses and wagons to make them ‘stay put” and stop wondering and another one in the late 1700s forbidding marriages between Roma while mixed marriages were encouraged and subsidized. Forgot the Roma's religion prior to the forced assimilation but obviously it was Catholic after that

Bottom line –If I were interested in my own ancestors, statistically I should have a better chance to be a Roma than Jewish but I don’t care who they were; possibly a combination of every race and /or religion that lived in Hungary including the Turks

My husband only remembers his ancestry once a year by drinking green beer.

@Olga : Hungarian people are not related to Turks
or Roma. Have you ever been in Turkey? You can see
they have very different pigmentation and face-
structure. The modern population genetics couldn't
detect mixing between Turks and Hungarians. First:
Ver very few Hungarians lived in the
Ottoman/Turkish occupied territory, because the
majority (at least 95%) of Hungarians moved to
Northern Royal Hungary and Transylvania
immediatelly. Only some big towns of Sultans the -
"Khaz" towns-(forexample Szeged Debrecen) had
Hungarian population, but it was under the defence
of Sultan. Second: the guards of the Ottoman
empire in Hungary were always Serbians and other
S-slavic people. Third, the country was western
christian (catholic protestant) therefore women
didn't keep alive babies from RAPE and babies with
a father who had absolute different religions
(muslims)

I can't believe that you are a History teacher.
Dear Olga, what is your nationality?

@History: Do you have any historical sources for these assertions: [1] "therefore women
didn't keep alive babies from RAPE" [2] "and babies with a father who had absolute different religions
(muslims)"?

@ History

For Heaven's sake - did I say I was a teacher?

My back ground is in social services as it relates to child welfare and children's mental health - I don't have a social work (BSW MSW) degree either, so I am not a "Social Worker" as defined by Ontario standards.

I majored in History and Women's studies at University and I picked courses from 1500 to WWI (typo re WWII , just noticed) - My studies in WWII history is from high school days

I was joking about Being Turkish but I bet that while Hungary was occupied by the Turks for 150 years , some Turks and Hungarians fell in love and had kids. I didn't say Romas, Jews, Turks, Slavs were "related" to Hungarians but there must have been mixed marriages - having kids because they were in love, not being "raped" - no jokes in that scenario

I was born in BP and always believed that everyone back to my great grandparents were born in BP - Based on something I read on this website, a couple of months ago I mentioned to my 87 year old Mom , that I wondered why all our known family members were born in BP and she said my paternal grandfather, who I never knew was born in Kassa - I had to look it up and it's Kosice in Slovakia.

Please don't assume I wrote something that wasn't true. Even though it's only an anonymous website, I don't lie for my own sake because if I did, I would question what was wrong with my life that I needed to mislead strangers in cyberspace.

The answer is simple. It would undermine the State of Israel and be equivalent to national suicide
American in Budapest at August 8, 2010 8:01 PM
---
Yes, I know
And I also saw Benjamin "Bibi" Netanyahu (Hebrew:About this sound בִּנְיָמִין "בִּיבִּי" נְתַנְיָהוּ) state on CNN that the Jewish State of Israel would never allow the 'Arabs' to come into majority (demographic problem) then it would threaten the Jewish State of Israel
We hear this daily from people in Hungary (about the Roma), who normally are regarded as anti-Semitic
So if they drop the anti-Semitic thing, you would agree with them, on a question of principle?
Or with your typical RedNecks in the US who has a problem with the faster growth of non-Caucasian percentage of the total population?
-
Personally I would go for the Liberal Nationalism, and not your Ethnic Nationalism, which you share with Jobbik et all

History,

Romas, Slovaks, Germans, Jews, etc. can all be Hungarians. It is ridiculous to identify a country with its ethnic majority.

Feel free to disagree.

@ American in BP

This "conversation" about race is bordering on insanity including "History's" jumping to conclusion about what I wrote and telling me what Hungarian's looked like, missing the point I was referring to mixed race kids not to mention nowhere in that posting did I say I was a teacher. Oh well, he was at least polite

On the subject on insanity and race.

I was watching a political talk-show programme on American TV fairly recently may have been CNN or MSNBC- there was a Black Woman and a Caucasian Woman arguing about President Obama being referred to as "Black" - I can't remember which woman took which side but the argument centered around his not being "Black" because he was 50% white.

One woman shouted :"But he is Black, because he looks Black" and the other woman yelled " that didn't matter, he was as much Black as he was White" At this point I switched channels

In the past, I would have thought if two purple people with green polka dots moved to Hungary and had children born in Hungary, those kids would be Hungarian. Just goes to show you how wrong one could be.

@Olga It is a romantic multicultural dream which is
anachronism in that age. Different face forms
pigmentations average stature different culture and
religions. Have you ever seen average pigmentation
maps of Europe? (hair eye etc....) Type in google
image searcher "hair color map" and "eye color map"

Different face forms pigmentations average stature different culture and religions
History at August 9, 2010 8:02 AM
---
And Magyars are round-faced, darker skin, shorter and with black hair
Seen many of those in Budapest lately?

LHVJ said:
.
"Yes Zionazi, lopott holmi visszajár"
LHVJ at August 7, 2010 11:56 AM
.
http://www.hungarylootedart.com
.
LHVJ
.
I'm glad you have no objection to return all the looted artwork hanging in Hungarian museums to their rightful owners.
Get on with it.
.
Happy Ramadan, infidel scumbag.

@ History

I am not sure if I understand how your posting about google maps fit in with what I meant by Maria Theresa's dictum in the late 1700's.

My point was that no one really knows who their ancestors were unless family records were kept for hundreds of years. I can't make assumptions about you, but I don't know or care about my ancestors' backgrounds nor about being a "Tiszta Magyar" because the whole concept sounds ridiculous to me. Of course others should enjoy obsessing if they so wish, I hate to ruin a good party.

As far as those woman arguing about President Obama - he looks Black and appears to think of himself as a Black man, therefore he is Black.

@ Olga, Today the ancestry is researchable in
scientific way. mt.DNA and Y Dna researches. The
cigan Roma or whatever is considered as mentally
retarded, majority of them couldn't read or write
and they usually go to the schools of retarded
people. Their habits are very strange: the sexual
intercourse between near kins is frequent, which
further worsened their genetic structure. Majority
of the people in Central and Eatern Europe hate
their mentality and their high ratio of brutal
criminality. There aren't central European and
Eastern European country , where the population like
them.

LHVJ said:
.
"Yes Zionazi, lopott holmi visszajár"
LHVJ at August 7, 2010 11:56 AM
.
http://www.hungarylootedart.com
.
LHVJ
.
I'm glad you have no objection to return all the looted artwork hanging in Hungarian museums to their rightful owners.
Get on with it.
.
Happy Ramadan, infidel scumbag.

@ History

Please don't jump to another conclusion - I am not a geneticist either, but I know there are no genetic markers for "incest" nor "mental retardation" - Down's syndrome is an extra chromosome but you are not implying Downs. Poor nutrition, drug and alcohol abuse cause delays in mental development but that's not "genetic"

If you want to comment on inbreeding, insanity, and bad gene pools, I suggest you study the families of the leading European Royal houses - happy to supply you with names. (That's the subject I know about because of the history courses I picked)

Don't get me wrong - I am not minimizing the Roma problems in Hungary - but it's not genetic , its causes are poverty and the other reasons I mentioned and won't repeat.

Re: "The Majority of the people in Central and Eastern Europe hate their mentality and their high ratio of brutal criminality."

No studies needed to convince me of the hate part - any studies about high ratio of Roma crime as compared to other Europeans with similar dismal backgrounds?

I live in a city with plenty of crime both non-violent and violent. The crimes are not much different than in Europe ( same shit, different perpetrators) and depending on which " expert" you listen to, both the causes and the solutions vary.

To the best of my knowledge, no one has linked criminal behaviour to genetics but it sounds like a good defense tactic.

Cinaed, where are you? have you heard of the "criminal and/or incest gene?

Hi Olga: Yes, I have heard of such things as 'crime genes' etc.I know that when the study of genetics started to unlock many of the secrets of DNA, a lot of people got pretty carried away with what they might be able to prove.It seemed that somehow genetics would erase such abstract notions of nurture and whether or not your mum hugged you enough.I guess that's one of those 'consequences of modernity' when you worship positivistic/functionalist science and exclude more qualitative experiences...anyway, while genetics is not exactly my specific field, but as far as I know, there is no single 'crime gene' or 'incest gene'.There are genes that seem to be relatively more common in people who commit such acts, but that seems more like a statistical correlation than a causal relationship.In terms of biological relationships with criminality, there is some evidence for atypical brain function that causes impulsivity and lowered inhibitions...but this is chicken and egg stuff.Brain scans often show abnormal brain activity in some offenders, but no one can convincingly answer whether the repeated behaviour changes the chemistry of the brain (which is known to happen), or whether the pre-existing condition of the brain predisposes a person to such acts...even in the latter case, it is arguable that poor or abnormal brain function is the result of poor lifestyle, diet etc, of which poverty is a major contributor.
...cont...

Personally, I think the biology stuff is more or less irrelevant at best, and at worst, is a sign of people spending huge sums of money looking for an excuse not to solve greater social issues.If you're talking about 'Gypsy crime', I am still convinced that it is not a law and order issue, or a biological issue as much as it is a SOCIAL issue.I think Zsuzsa is right that it is a waste of time to keep throwing money into social programmes that we know don't work.I do, however, think the answer lies in long-term education, training, employment and empowerment.Results constantly show that where education and access to employment are improved, crime and recidivism drops significantly.The problem is that it takes a big investment, and a long lead-time before these results start to show up.If you're interested, here is a link to a study I wrote on this...just bear in mind it was written in a purely Western context: http://never-a-protege.webs.com/wearesocialanimals.htm#474523646
...cont...

One of the biggest problems that I see in this whole issue is the constant blame.I can see that both sides have reason to hate each other, and gypsy crime is no fantasy.I also don't think that the Hungarian people are necessarily to blame, but rather that it is a symptom of a much greater social ill across Europe that has been growing for centuries.Anyway, the point is, to me, blaming (on both sides) is an excuse not to do anything.The problem is here, it exists, and what is happening right now is only making things worse.It's time to try something different, the problem is, it's unlikely that any politician has the political will or guts to start a programme that is going to take longer than at least one election cycle to start working...especially when community sentiment is more weighted towards punitive means of dealing with it.I also realise Hungary just doesn't have the money to do what needs to be done.This is where I think the EU as a whole needs to take some responsibility and some leadership.Roma issues are spread throughout Europe and to a large extent are the result of the collective actions of European states.As such, funding and oversight for the programmes I mentioned really should come from the collective EU and not just fall on the countries that have the largest Roma populations.
It's a long road, and I can't see any overnight miracles, but in my pragmatic way, I think if you never start the journey, you will never get to the destination either.

olga...just to add something I forgot. I am aware that there have been some cases in the US where genetics has been used as a defence, but I'm a bit hazy on the outcomes of those particular cases.Generally speaking, I would think it would come under 'mental competence', in which case, violent offenders don't generally go scott free anyway. Still, again, I can't really comment on US law in that regard.by the way.I know there are plenty of people out there who are true believers in the criminal gene theory, but I'm just not convinced.Even when using statistical correlations there are still problems.For example, the stats show that you are far more likely to be assaulted by a 'sane' person than someone with a mental illness, with violent acts by the mentally ill being a very small minority of crime.Most of the fear of the mentally ill is sensationalised hype.The other problem is the proverbial 'catch 22' that presupposes a violent crime wouldn't be committed by a sane person, so therefore they must be insane.If a person is insane, then they are not a criminal.Then we end up medicalising and politicising behaviour, which as we can see through examples in both Nazi Germany and the USSR (and still in Hungary now) has serious consequences for those who do not fit prescribed social norms.The contradiction here is that by criminalising all negative behaviours we also ignore the social causes of crime, which according to strain/anomie theory leads people to act in unsanctioned ways

...so, whichever way you look at it.The biological indicators of criminality are a moot point.Even if you could find some biological link between Roma and crime, what does it mean?What could be done about it?Lock them all up?...and then what?Who's going to pay for that?...believe me, it costs a shit load to run a prison, even a bad one.It's far cheaper to just pay people not to commit crimes.The answers lie in improving social cohesion and to use a Durkheimian term 'organic solidarity'.I know there are plenty of people who would call this 'lefty crap', but all I say is look at what works and what doesn't.Look at the vast array of sociological and criminlogical writing that attests to success of programmes that promote social-inclusion and empowerment, and that links criminality to poverty, exclusion and poor access to employment and education.To end this epic 'lecture' I will close with one of my favourite confucian quotes:
-
“Lead the people with governmental measures and regulate them by law and punishment, and they will avoid wrongdoing but will have no sense of honour and shame. Lead them with virtue and regulate them by the rules of propriety, and they will have a sense of shame and, moreover, set themselves right”
- Confucius

@Lopott Holmi Visszajár at August 13, 2010 2:00 AM

I would send you home you scumbag but you have no home. The home you claim belongs to the Palestinians.
Zionazis steal the Palestinians’ land; destroy their homes and their fields, murder helpless Palestinian women and children for sport. They murder Palestinian young men to use and sell their organs.

Palestinian Land Losses
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/6761/palastinianlandloss8tz.gif

There is no thief like a Zionazi thief.

Yes Zionazi, Lopott Holmi Visszajár

@ Cinaed

Thanks for your post - I will check out the links.

Once you mentioned the "criminal gene" I remembered about a study I read but obviously it does not apply to the Roma in general.

I read there was a study of genetics amongst inmates in jail and there is something about an extra Y chromosome (XYY as opposed to XY) and there was a disproportionate number of these males in jail compared to the genral male population. Don't remember details and irrelevant to the Roma.

I don't know anything about funding social programs in other countries but like I told Zsuzsa, there was something about welfare dollars being clawed back from the Feds to the Provinces but funding for adult education remained the responsibility of the Provinces - I don't remember details since my involvement with the welfare system was so long ago but it was cheaper to just keep people on welfare funding long term education including day care for children whose Moms were on welfare getting retrained.

Why welfare dollars in Hungary is not contingent on kids attending school makes no sense to me but maybe the enforcement of those rules would cost too much -

There was an article in the papers months ago stating that Roma kids are having a difficult time in Toronto schools but slowly they are adjusting to our education system.

I posted the link - I am sure it was ignored because it doesn't fit with the preconceived ideas people have.

olga: while in principle I don't have a problem with making welfare conditional on school attendance, that on its own isn't enough.Until we all as a society start to value investment in education as money well spent, we're just not going to make reasonable progress.Schools have to be about more than just academic training.Teacher salaries, training and support are woefully inadequate in most countries. ...but you know this is more than just being about blaming governments for not doing things right.I know and understand that people need to see justice done, and so when there are crimes that go unpunished, a sense of hatred and resentment grows.The thing is, that retribution doesn't solve the problem.I know it's 'easy' to say that cooperation and pro-social action is what is needed, and I understand that this runs counter to what some would consider a 'natural' sense of justice, but until governments see that people are sick of conflict and want change, and until communities start holding politicians accountable, there is little motivation to do anything but make token (and expensive) gestures like increasing the police force and building bigger prisons, which in something of a social reality, easily become 'crime schools'.Ultimately, education and spending on education is inevitable.The only question is do we educate people in schools to be citizens, or educate them in prison to be criminals?

About the newspaper "Hetek" and its leader: Sándor
Németh :))))) Németh was a Taxi driver, he hasn't
any degree. He leads a "christian" (or zionist)
sect as a mafia, which is very destructive for
less-educated credulous Hungarian people's wealth.
Other christian religions deny that the jews were
choosen people until the destoroy of Jerusalem by
the Romans, and Jesus extended his christian
choosen-hood for all nations of the world.
However, Németh teaches: that the Jews are the
ONLY choosen people of the God until this day!
According to his logic: the christians must serve
the Jews.

Just a video about his sect (Hit gyüli or hit
gyülekezete)
Sándor Németh radiate special christian power and
energy for his believers.

Here is the VIDEO LINK! (it's very very
amusing:)))))

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pGheC22MpY

Look the video : 0:48 and from 1:30.

ENJOY IT!