what that really means is that OSCE worried Hungarians will take back media properties stolen by COmmiepigs and start telling truths
cant have that!

Ah, finally an Orbanista on this site

@vv...........truth is the property of us all. Because the previous government was dishonest is no excuse for Fidesz to decide what is truth or not. Is there now only to be orbanspeak?

Poor Orban is outside the mainstream of European society ...

My impression is that Orban is a political opportunist.

@American in Miskolc: He is receiving at least verbal support from the same guy (Mark Weisbrot) who has championed the South American leaders and talked down the IMF http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-07-28/hungary-shows-imf-austerity-dangerous-for-european-recovery-cepr-says.html
n.b. I give you the English version since, despite all your previous claims (stats degree, living in Budapest, paying yourself $540,000 annually, being an entrepreneur, understanding economics etc....), you are unable to speak and communicate in other languages. Hence your simple understanding of the world.

American in Budapest, Orban is in fact part of mainstrea, European thought, people in EU are seeing budgets cuts and many lies propagated by EU bearucrats, basically your position is Commie controlled and censored press good, alternative opinions bad,,,when Commiecontrol is threatened scream 'press freedom' but go back to totalitarian censorship when back in control...

is 21st century...welcome to the internet

Monsieur Vándorló,

Vous avez besoin d'eliminer l'attitude antagonistique. Et je pense mon francais est mieux que le votre ... J'ai passé plusieurs années à Paris.

I have already read the article. The Institute has a point: austerity can certainly be too severe. However, it is difficult to be sanguine about Hungary's committment fiscal reform given its history. I see no alternative to severe austerity since Hungary should reduce its debt/GDP ratio. I take it as self evident that social spending should not be financed by foreigners.

If Hungary wants to run deficits to improve its public infrastructure, that can be justified. But that's not the history. The history is one of refusing to reduce consumption in the form social benefits and financing it through foreign loans (bonds sold to foreigners). .

Orban is clearly outside the European mainstream, which was my point of my posting. He couldn't even get along with the Bush administration, which was hardly leftwing. The media law eliminates the independence of public media, which is why the OSCE is investigating. The IMF has already made it clear and the EU has concurred that no loan without an independent central bank.

Show me a Western European country where the government in power has attempted to oust the leader of the central bank. It is certainly not modus operandi.

Do you deny that Orban is so far to the right as to be outside of European political norm?

XX,

Orban is not in the European mainstream. The European mainstream believes in the independence of the press and central bank.

I know no Western European country where a government took power and spent its first few months ringing nationalistic bells.

In fact, he has been criticized in most of the mainstream Western European journals:

http://www.lemonde.fr/idees/article/2010/07/19/en-hongrie-les-curieuses-manieres-de-m-orban_1389621_3232.html

Vandorlo ...

Voyons comment bon est votre francaise ...

:)

http://www.lemonde.fr/idees/article/2010/07/19/en-hongrie-les-curieuses-manieres-de-m-orban_1389621_3232.html

You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you're going, because you might not get there.

A man coming from a long distance...can tell any story he wants.

A nickel isn't worth a dime today.

In business, it is best to make 2 fast nickels, then 1 slow dime...

justasking lives in Frostbyte Falls.
It gets late early out there.

@Y,

Nope, that would be further North :))

The president of a central bank is an appointed position, just like in USA. The previous governor of central bank of Hungary was appointed by the Commiepigs who am sure secretly printed money and used it as a Commiepig slush fund...

so why any objection to appointing your own guy in this position? that is politics

as for being outside EU mainstream...is that defined as whatever American in Budapest agrees with? that is the mainstream huh?

actually if you take French president sarkozy recent comments on gypsies would seem Jobbik is the new Eu mainstream and Orban the liberal

TT,

You forget one more important detail. Of course, the governors of the central banks are appointed by elected governments, but they serve for their entire term and cannot be removed by the government that appointed them due to policy differences.

In other words, the governors of central banks, including the United States, have largely an independent reign. Both Republican and Democratic Presidents have been forced to co-exist with Fed Reserve chairman of the opposite party.

That allows monetary policy to be conducted in the national interest as opposed the short term interest of a government seeking re-election.

If you want to guarantee that Hungary remains economically backward, then let Orban determine monetary policy. He will create massive inflation to erode the real value of Hungary's external debt and Hungary will end up being a pariah in Europe.

By the way, the Socialists are not Communists. If they were Communists, this message board would not exist.

@American in....: Mainly in Miskolc, never what he claims to be "American in Budapest and Paris"

Vandorlo,

Avez vous lit l'article francais?

@AiB:

Well I've read it - and it doesn't have many nice things to say about Monsieur Orbán ...

I haven't seen anything as critical in the German press for example (although these are Jew-owned, as bob or Law or any other jobo would tell you).

PS and OT:

Every time I (have to) read something in French, I feel like a Hungarian who had to learn Russian in school ...

Since I grew up in the "French Occupied Zone" I learned (or rather crammed)French as a first foreign language - nine long years, a lesson almost every day, it was horrible ...

Not the Language of course, but the way our teachers made us read crap which we youngsters had absolutely no interest in ...

And we never learned how to hold a conversation in a restaurant or hotel ...

So the only good thing was, that Latin and English later were easier to learn ...

@Méga-branleur dans Miskolc: Quels points de cet article méritent d'être lus? L'écriture, les idées et les observations sont prosaïques, vraiment ennuyeux et banals. Alors, dit la vérité, quoi de neuf dans ces exemples donné dans cet article? Il n'y avait rien.... je le répète... rien d'intéressant à lire en elle. Je voudrais apprendre le hongrois, si j'étais vous.

Look the bottom line is that Hungarians want to be
free. They had enough of the Russian dictatorship
and they have enough of the financial banks
dictatorship.

Remember, the Hungarians are to be blamed to take
the wall down in Berlin. It can happen again to
take the wall down in the selfish. free robbing
financial world, that showed again that it does
not work for the most people.

The bottom line why Hungary will be successful is
called the WATER and the food that will disappear
in West-Europe and elsewhere in the world very
soon. Writer your argument 2 years form now to me,
when number of countries will be following
Hungary's financial decisions. The solution is
called DEMOCRACY - which I question even in big
countries which called them self Democratic.

@Joe S Smith at August 2, 2010 5:53 PM

Good post!

Le point est très simple. Monsieur Orban est déjà considéré comme un extrémiste. Après seulement deux mois ...

Au revoir mon cher ami hongrois!

Joe,

Stop the populist crap. It was Hungary that has borrowed and borrowed and borrowed non-stop since the early 80s. It has one of the highest debt/GDP ratios in Eastern Europe.

The country has been living beyond its means for the last twenty years.

And by the way, without the banks, your ass is grass.

@AIP va te faire foutre! dégage!

@Amerrycrap in Miskolc: Was that your best shot at French? And you say you live there? How long? I was only in Chartres for 6 months. You are one sad clown.

You are very confused about a lot of things, but mainly your own sense of importance (your own subjective opinions trump anything in the objective world of real data, you pretend to understand things you really haven't even heard of 10 minutes earlier having scanned wikipedia, you can't even be honest about where you are).

Listen, nothing personal, but I feel the same about you. I could be wrong, but was pretty sure after your third posting here that you are an unmitigated cunt.

Now in some cases that is a positive thing. Certainly it is helpful if you are an entrepreneur or a high level manager: take the test: http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/96/open_boss-quiz.html

But in your case, I fear you are just a cunt, plain and simple. No entrepreneur I know ever pays themselves much. It's simply ridiculous to claim you pay yourself $540,000 annually and then not know the likely returns on your 'property investments' here.

What's more, it doesn't impress anyone here since there are plenty of self-made, wealthy, intelligent people on these boards.

It just so happens some of them don't agree with you, and some of them do. But the 'divisions' are not as simple as you are, or your world view.

In time, you may learn to cope with free speech, just a shame the US continues in the opposite direction.

AIB
The borrowing was down by certain political people
for the foreign banks and in the 80's for the
Russians. The last IMF money that was borrowed by
the ex-Prime Minister Bajnai, who is now working
for the largest foreign Bank in Hungary. About 80%
of the last IMF borrowed money went to the foreign
banks in Hungary to help the Hungarian economy.
Instead these foreign banks took that money
outside of the Hungary and made multiple times
profit on that and never helped the Hungarian
economy. In fact, the IMF committed possible fraud
together with Bajnai to help making huge profit
for foreign banks and push the payment back on the
Hungarian people. The Hungarian people got almost
nothing from that IMF money. The Hungarian
government still did not receive back their money
from those banks, while those banks are still
making huge profit from the money that Hungary now
have to pay back.
So, before you claim something you should look
into the facts. This is obviously very
unreasonable for the Hungarian people and thus a
small bank tax what the new Hungarian government
is leveraging against these banks is little
compare to the damages Bajnai, IMF and these
foreign banks made in conspiracy against the
Hungarian people.
When a person robes the bank it becomes a news and
a crime, but when the banks keep robbing the
people - is that right or should be crime?
Someone finally stands up to make new laws to
protect the people from the real problems, called
the THIEF's and banks.

In fact, the IMF committed possible fraud
together with Bajnai to help making huge profit
for foreign banks and push the payment back on the
Hungarian people
Joe S Smith at August 2, 2010 9:46 PM
---
How can you commit a "possible fraud"?
After all this writing, you still do not know if it was fraud or not?
* How was the fraud committed?
* Which banks got what money?
OTP claim they never got any State support to handle the crisis last years and the rest are basically foreign owned and they did definitely not get any Hungarian State support, so which money?

Joe,

The IMF loan was lent to the Hungarian government, not to the Hungarian banks.

What are you babbling about?

Vándorló,

So many bullets and not a single hit ...

No wonder they discharged you from the army ....

american in budapest, yes 'Hungary' borrowed and borrowed since the 1980's but most of that borrowing was done by Commiepigs government
also so much state property was sold to Commiepig foreign cronies at below market prices..money that could have been used to reduce the deficit...

The COmmiepigs are a narrow, hostile elite to the vast majority of Hungarians why would they want people like that in charge of their country

The COmmiepigs are a narrow, hostile elite to the vast majority of Hungarians why would they want people like that in charge of their country
zz at August 3, 2010 3:55 AM
---
Because you also mean the post 1989 period, you are hardly expecting an answer to that question on a web-site in English, full of people who has no voting rights in the Hungarian National Elections?
You should probably go out in the Hungarian reality and hear what excuses people will invent how they voted last 20 years and have no personal responsibility in that
.
When it comes to the IMF-loans in the 80s, it is my understanding those ones were paid off in the 90s, so what is the big deal today?
It is a question if those loans did not help undermine the whole Soviet-Bloc and in that sense they did serve a good purpose, right?
The Soviet-Bloc collapsed more due to it was unsustainable to keep any more, where the extremely bad economy played an important role

Beautiful Budapest. Breathtaking views and the parliament buildings are second to none in their architectural magnificence.
The Danube with its bridges and the Castle and the surrounding parks are excellent.
How did such a beautiful place end up with such a woeful bunch of leaders Past, Present, and, ...Future???
The EU, IMF, and World Bank, all SUCK.
Borrow from these outfits and you are consigned to economic hell.
Until Hungary can find some home-grown, non-corrupt,
professional, business people, the politicians will
continue to pollute the Danube with effluence of the corrupt and inefficient kind.

zz,

Selling government property would only temporaily reduce the government deficit. The deficit is a structural problem. The government is financing the country's excessive consumption by borrowing from abroad.

You have to reduce recurring government spending.

That means less social benefits. Less transfer payments.

You might be able to reduce tax evasion, but it is highly unlikely to be enough to balance the budget.

AIB and Viking:

The Hungarian government, by the decision of
Bajnai borrowed the money from the IMF.
However most of that money were given to the
foreign banks operating in Hungary.
Check EU law: Each country responsible to give
bailout for the banks that operates in that
country - even if the origin of that bank is from
another country.

So, the foreign banks took most of the IMF money
from Hungary. These banks did not help the
Hungarian economy but made multiple times profit
on that money. Now Bajnai is the CEO of one of
these bank. And now the Hungarian people have to
pay those moneys back.

That is what I call fraud and conspiracy against
the Hungarian people. I am sure we will hear such
legal actions in court soon.

Check EU law: Each country responsible to give
bailout for the banks that operates in that
country - even if the origin of that bank is from
another country
Joe S Smith at August 3, 2010 3:40 PM
---
"EU law"?
When did the EP pass that law, and which identification does it have?
If you are referring to some of the newly introduced agreements that came after the Greek wake-up call, then you are wrong with both time and law. This did not apply on Hungary before today and it should actually force all countries to keep a close eye on all banks, not just their own. All banks operate under a national license and is supposed to be monitored in every country
.
Swedish tax payers 2008/2009 picked up the bill for Swedish bank's bad business in the Baltic States, not the Baltic States, because that is how it worked. The countries in Eastern Europe did not give any money to foreign owned banks. The West-European Tax Payers had to foot that bill. Maybe some State gave money to some local owned bank, but not to foreign owned
.
But please link to an old article where the Hungarian State is subsidizing any banks in the last years. It would be an interesting read

Dunja Mijatovic succeeded the Jerusalem born Miklós Haraszti (Stalinist apparatchik parents, Zionist, SZDSZ hack…) on March 10 as "OSCE Representative on Freedom of the Media…" (ROFL) Nobody knows who she is (some American sponsored obscure bureaurocrat from Bosnia) and thus the embarrassment of having censors like Lendvai or gangsters like Paraszti preach at us about media freedom is avoided. Will Mijatovic look into some of the latest leaks 'The PRT provided 12 hours of PSYOP Radio Content Programming to Radio Ghaznwyan FM Station and Radio Ghazni AM/FM Station for week of 6-12 Nov. Topics included Afghanistan History, Law, and Human Rights in both Dari and Pashto, and a spreadsheet with the specific radio content programming for the week of 6-12 Nov will be forward sepcor to SPARTAN. Additionally, PRT paid Radio Ghaznwyan $3,900 for Radio Content Programming air time for the month of October… http://wardiary.wikileaks.org/afg/event/2006/11/AFG20061105n433.html Radio Ghaznawiyaan was established and funded by the Agency for International Development, but USAID has described it in the past as a success story for local independent journalism launched with American help. So its listeners may be surprised to learn that it is an outlet for paid U.S. "PSYOP radio content.' (thank you Julian!)

and other information 'Lincoln Group… articles, written by U.S. military «information operations» ... Translated… the articles are [then] presented in the Iraqi press as unbiased news accounts written and reported by independent journalists…' http://bit.ly/akPvzx surfacing about how the 'sausage is made' in the 'main stream' media wherever Anglo-Zionist 'democracy' and 'freedom' reigns, I wonder? When hell freezes over? Or would that be too soon?

Oh my god, someone let out the pavian a day too early ...

Someone must've cancelled that last truckload of
penis-pumps...