An MEP of the governing Fidesz party, Ildiko Pelcz Gall, has submitted a petition to the European Commission seeking protection for the Hungarian government’s new media law, the Nepszabadsag daily said on Tuesday.
“Measures are under way to make the currently non-transparent and segmented Hungarian media that has been operated through multiple political bargains, transparent,” the MEP said in her petition.
Pelcz called it regrettable that “the domestic media has carried negative reports – serving most probably lobby interests – about Fidesz’s new media package already before its passing, hinting an anti-democratic nature of the new media structure.”
Pelcz asked the EC to consider taking steps in order to “prevent the publishing of negative and untrue reports in the name of democracy.”
She also seeks the EC’s position on whether it agrees with the Hungarian government’s objective to establish a new and transparent media that is financially viable and is operated even-handedly, even if it goes “against the interests of certain individuals or business circles.”
Pelcz submitted her petition after the OSCE and several international media organisations expressed concern over the centre-right government’s new media legislation.
The EC’s response is expected next week, the paper said.
Yeah, that’s how you support liberty of expression:
“Pelcz asked the EC to consider taking steps in order to “prevent the publishing of negative and untrue reports in the name of democracy.”
@American…: They are not the only people and press who are having a real problem understanding press freedom: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/02/AR2010080202627.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
I personally think Assange is an asshole.
However one feels about Afghanistan, his strategy
to “end the war” won’t do much other than get over
100 innocent Afghani informants AND their
families, wives/children killed just because they
reported on the whereabouts of Taliban who have
been intimidating their villages.
How hard would it have been for “hacker” Assange
to come up with an algorithm to remove
names/villages from the 90,000 pages of documents
before releasing them?
Not that hard. Man is lazy which will get nice
people killed by the not-nice Taliban who WILL
kill their wives and children.
Just my two cents. Sorry to disagree with you
Vandorlo, but Assange is not MY hero.
@Bystander: “Sorry to disagree with you…” I completely agree with what should have been done with the documents and in the efforts to protect people’s identities. But as I merely pointed to an article, I can understand your abductive inference to have got carried away. Aside from that WikiLeaks has and continues to serve an important function not provided by any mainstream press internationally. And the reporting and press freedom in the US is now a joke, best summed up with one word: waterboarding http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiPbkTU5zCA
And let’s maintain perspective, this are the arguments the Washington Post publish these days:
“In 1989, the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel issued a memorandum entitled ‘Authority of the Federal Bureau of Investigation to Override International Law in Extraterritorial Law Enforcement Activities.’
This memorandum declares that ‘the FBI may use its statutory authority to investigate and arrest individuals for violating United States law, even if the FBI’s actions contravene customary international law’ and that an ‘arrest that is inconsistent with international or foreign law does not violate the Fourth Amendment.’ In other words, we do not need permission to apprehend Assange or his co-conspirators anywhere in the world.”
What to do if Assange steadfastly refuses to stop
leaking information that is 100% assured to get
informants killed on the ground (and sadly out of
pure f-ing LAZINESS)?
I’m not saying I endorse “extra-judicial”
ANYthing, but wondering if you had any suggestions
on how to keep Afghani informants and their
women/children from being clear/present *targets*?
I’d be curious to hear if you have a suggestion
(short of “don’t pursue Al Qaeda and you don’t
have a problem” please)… Assange is thumbing his
nose at requests to redact/remove names from his
leaks…
Since you are a bright guy I truly am interested
in what you can come up with.
And as a follow up question, do you think any
soldier in any army in the world should be able to
post any secret information about troop deployment
etc. that they choose, online? I.e. “My platoon
is hiding in a ditch opposite enemy position
XYZ”…
Thanks in advance.
@Bystander: “I completely agree with what should have been done with the documents and in the efforts to protect people’s identities.”
That aside the US doesn’t give a fuck about anyone being targets, not even it’s own citizens http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltQfm2eA1QE
To your second question: No.
@ Vandorlo and Bystander
please take a look at the link below short article – I always think that the Canadian press is more impartial than its US, UK and Australian counterparts and yes I am biased.
This fiasco confirms what I always thought – war is horrific and our Canadian soldiers should not have entered Afghanistan.
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Opinion+Weak+leaks/3334740/story.html
The video did say the US was targeting
“…American citizens who are working with
terrorist groups overseas” (presumably to kill
American civilians at least that’s what the terror
plots so FAR have been about, aside from the Fort
Hood attack).
So, while I completely agree that we should be
trying to *arrest* those people rather than
*assassinate* them, you didn’t exactly pick the
most sympathetic group of people to make me worry
about their “citizen rights”.
Would it help if a US law was passed stripping
citizens of their citizenship if (in absentia
obviously) enough evidence showed that they were
involved in treasonous planning of murder of
American citizens at home?
Again, this would still be problematic
“assassination”, but is what bothers you the fact
that those working with foreign terror groups to
kill Americans are *citizens*? Or is it that the
US “assassinates” anyone at all?
In that case, if we were to spot Osama Bin Laden
under a tree in Kandahar (not many trees, I’ll
admit), do you think we have the right to drop a
bomb on him?
I’m not saying I agree with assassination of US
citizens abroad, just curious how you would
address my ‘caveats’ above…
@Olga: Thanks, just read it. I’ve read quite a few over the last few days. This one from today from the liberal UK lefty perspective http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/aug/03/neocons-hypocrites-wikileaks-afghanistan also.
Did you see the Time cover [ http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2007269,00.html ]? Appalling and frightening. Though Obama has started to regain a bit of perspective, with pulling troops out of Iraq.
@Bystander: I can understand the anger, but what you are suggesting is that I condone the murder of innocent people, part of the collateral damage of a media war. Obviously I don’t. But I don’t support the ‘war’ either. It was never legitimate and I am piss sick of giving a fuck about US concerns abroad.
The US did fuck all to stop the IRA bombs and funds flowing, because back then you had no experience of terrorism. Well, welcome to the real world. It’s shite and you had a large hand in creating it.
Any more questions?
That TIME cover seems to work against your point,
Vandorlo, unless I’m missing something…
I agree that it’s not America’s job to police
every single cruel medieval fundamentalist a-hole,
but seeing their treatment of women does not
exactly make me feel guilty about pursuing the
Taliban…
People will complain about America doing nothing
to “help” at the same time as others condemn
America for “helping”, so I don’t think there are
easy answers, but we as individuals and society
actually LEARN over time, we are human, we make
hasty decisions, then regret them, then improve as
societies, etc. Modern day Germany is a muuuuch
“improved” society compared to 70 years ago
because they learned from their mistakes.
America has made mistakes, yes, but blanket
condemnation while turning a blind eye to other
facts (like that there really will be legions of
people who would like to harm US citizens
REGARDLESS of US foreign policy-), I think
oversimplifies things.
And as to your “The US did fuck all to stop the
IRA bombs and funds flowing, because back then you
had no experience of terrorism.” well, the “US” is
not a monolithic group of people where one hand
always knows what the other did. In fact my
knowledge on that situation is limited, but I
think the guilty ones were criminal groups in the
US abetting criminal enterprises overseas with
some “inside” (govt employee) help.
Hopefully the USA has learned more about terrorism
since, but 99% of us had no idea re: aid to IRA.
@Bystander”..That TIME cover seems to work against your point..” No dick wit, it was to show you that your simple, narrow, tunnel vision, defensive perspective and projecting of ‘my perspective’ was in conflict. But you still don’t quite get it, because you need simple, because you are simple.
“…but blanket condemnation…” From whom? I said I was piss sick of interfering US foreign policy. Who the fuck isn’t? The US and its people are fine – as long as they keep consuming at the rate they do the American dream and US currency will be OK, which is all anyone asks of you.
p.s. Concerning the IRA, in a court of law, ignorance is no defense. Really, you had no experience of terrorism, but the masses can’t be blamed for being ignorant fucks, which ever country they are unfortunate enough to live in. But hey, Fox and mainstream media called these twats ‘freedom fighters’, just like waterboarding isn’t torture anymore.
Don’t defend the indefensible.
Nice talking with you.
Note: You don’t have to call someone names every
five seconds just because you get frustrated.
Take some deep breaths, it’s a serious debate.
Calling me a “dick wit” as your panting, out of
breath doesn’t make me take your point any more
seriously.
And I still disagree with some of what you say
(e.g. Americans are “collectively guilty” in our
ignorance).
Hopefully you understand the concept of
disagreeing “without being disagreeable”. I know
you take this stuff deadly seriously as do I since
there are people killing people on all sides here.
However my respect for your intelligence drops
every time I hear you call me some absurd
schoolyard name, as if that lends gravity to your
argument.
Have a good night, maybe you will take your anger
out on someone more deserving in the morning.
Vándorló,
Your behaviour is that of an inferiority complex ridden individual.
You insult anyone who disagrees with you.
Your behaviour is childish and my best guess is that you have an inferiority complex bigger than the New York metropolitan area …
@Amerrycack…: “…my best guess is that you have an inferiority complex…” Is that your best guess based on experience, qualification, or some objective data? I’d be interested in your full clinical opinion.
With Bystander I repeatedly tried to help him with data and resources, he chose to interpret my motives and project a (highly misguided) argument on me. I rebuffed him 2-3 times nicely; then I just couldn’t give a shit since he was determined to see me in the light he wanted to and this was all completely new to him – as it is for you, otherwise your craw wouldn’t be so proud and full of the bullshit they send you off with from the mother country.
What you and he need is easy to understand black and white nonsense – America the land of the free, liberty, prosperity….
Now he understands enough, not to be so lazy in interpreting my motives, and a little more about the state of his nation.
You have still a way to go.
Vándorló,
Let me list some of your intellectual failings:
1. Official obesity statistics are official, therefore correct.
2. What Hungary teaches its students about their history must be correct.
3. Nationalism is ok (despite the fact that it led to two world wars).
4. Personal attacks on people to try to undermine their crediblity is ok instead of showing the failings in their arguments.
5. American in Budapest is an American there I will attack America and indirectly him. And of course, he is responsible for all actions undertaken by the American Republic since the founding of the Republic.
These are the sort of tactics that you engage in …
You’re not interested in an exhange of ideas, but rather trying to score points on a message board.
Let’s examine closely one incident. I noted that Hungarians engage in conspicuous consumption in the form of fancy cars while their buildings are in decay. Bob begins an attack, “I bet you can’t afford one.” I respond that based on my income I can afford three. And then you engage in an attempt to undermine my credibility. A very long attempt on your part which only shows it really bothers your ego.
Fortunately, I have met many Hungarian professionals here in Budapest and most of them seem quite a bit better behaved than you. Most of them are tired by the obsession with the Trianon Treaty and the past and the failings of Hungarian mentality. They know that Orban is a loser and embarrassment.
@Amerryjerk…: Answering in return:
1. “Official obesity statistics are official, therefore correct.” Not stated. Merely they are more likely to be correct compared to your clearly biased and subjective opinion. You also said that we should all ignore official statistics from the World Bank and OECD in favour of your personal limited experience.
2. “What Hungary teaches its students about their history must be correct.” Not stated and any point in any discussion. You just made that up shit head.
3. “Nationalism is ok (despite the fact that it led to two world wars).” Not stated and any point in any discussion. You just made that up shit head.
4. “Personal attacks on people to try to undermine their crediblity is ok instead of showing the failings in their arguments.” I always provide data and sources and when I am stating my opinion, I state it clearly as being my opinion. You’r are projecting your own failings here.
5. “American in Budapest is an American there I will attack America and indirectly him. And of course, he is responsible for all actions undertaken by the American Republic since the founding of the Republic.” No, it is just *you* that are an unmitigated cunt. Just you. I have stated clearly that normal ignorant people are not to blame for your meager intellect and behaviour.
Corollary: If you want to discuss things, you have to be prepared to provide an argument/reasooning. Not your arrogant, I must be right, because I’m right bollocks.
Witness Class Act Vándorló …
“No, it is just *you* that are an unmitigated cunt. Just you. I have stated clearly that normal ignorant people are not to blame for your meager intellect and behaviour.
Corollary: If you want to discuss things, you have to be prepared to provide an argument/reasooning. Not your arrogant, I must be right, because I’m right bollocks.”
Should we send this to your Mom so she can see how her son turned out …
@Amerrycunt…: On the ‘attempt to undermine your credibility’, you never had any. But to answer specifically the charges you lay, I stated that your claimed self-paid salary of $540,000 was and is simply ridiculous. You freely made a series of ridiculous claims about yourself to try to establish a sense of faulse authority. As you have seen, that kind of bollocks doesn’t wash here. Only the content of your argument matters.
You claim to be an entrepreneur, yet knew nothing about the likely returns on your claimed property investments – from questions asked by Curious George, not me. I pointed out better places to invest your money if property is what you are interested in.
It boils down to this: you are a pathological liar and I wasn’t kidding when I pointed you to the survey to try to self-diagnose your condition: http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/96/open_boss-quiz.html
You lie about pretty much everything to do with yourself and your life. Now that isn’t so important, but then what you provide in terms of discussion is just an endless stream of attacks on Hungary and Hungarians. And you clearly can’t understand anything yourself, so are limited to reading the news in English. You might understand a little in French, but you clearly can’t communicate in it. It took you three hours from when you read my response in French to when you replied – in the most simple language possible! You, sir, are an amoral charlatan – though a very poor one.
@Richer and Smarter than Vándorló: “Should we send this to your Mom so she can see how her son turned out …” Where do you think I got it from? If it helps any, she called me an arrogant tyke when I was 13 and I agreed. I have no illusions, nor does she.
This is absolutely hilarious! I can’t even believe there are politicians who would so readily make fools out of themselves…
Believe it. Fidesz is full of losers. It is truely remarkable that “Pelcz called it regrettable that “the domestic media has carried negative reports – serving most probably lobby interests – about Fidesz’s new media package already before its passing, hinting an anti-democratic nature of the new media structure.”
Pelcz asked the EC to consider taking steps in order to “prevent the publishing of negative and untrue reports in the name of democracy.”"
Vandorlo,
You’re really dumb. Take this passage.
“But to answer specifically the charges you lay, You claim to be an entrepreneur, yet knew nothing about the likely returns on your claimed property investments – from questions asked by Curious George, not me. I pointed out better places to invest your money if property is what you are interested in. ”
I only stated my income in response to an unprovoked attack by Bob-Hunkered-Down-In-His-Bunker.
No where did I state that my income comes from my real estate investments.
Dah …
You are so stupid …
If you really smart you would not be constantly jumping to unwarranted conclusions.
PS: Hungarians are fat and if you have really been to France, then you know the French are very slim and the Hungarians look like hogs being sent to the slaughter.
@ American
Re: “Hungarians are fat and if you have really been to France, then you know the French are very slim and the Hungarians look like hogs being sent to the slaughter. ”
I happen to be slim so I don’t take it personally but anyone who makes a statement like that and posts as “Rich and Smart “(or whatever) is a complete jerk. Vandorlo is right about you
One another note – this forum seems like a playground for people attacking each other rather than discussing the substance of the articles.
If this is the level of discussion in Hungary, then…
M.R.,
It doesn’t have to be that way, but you have a group of highly nationalistic Hungarians who are really outside the European mainstream and launch vicious attacks, which not surprisingly lead to vicious counterattacks and so forth. I am guilty of vicious counterattacks.
The Nationalists believe in an idealized version of history where Hungary was always the Victim. Remind them that the Nazis got help from the locals in exterminating the Jewish population and taking their property or that the Slovaks and Romas and Germans were repressed during the Austrian-Hungarian Empire and they launch vicious attacks.
Antisemitism is all over the board despite the fact the Hungarians Jews made Budapest a great city (in the middle of the 19th century the Jews were the middle class).
The Nationalists even deny that a Jew could be Hungarian. They believe in a strictly ethnic definition of Hungarian.
In neither France or the US would you such a narrow identification of nationality with ethnicity.
The Nationalist avoid talking about the 1930s when Hungary embraced fascism and eventually fought side by side with the Germans in WWII.
Hungary is a battlefield between a backward and dangerously narrow nationalism and a more cosmopolitan and enlightened European culture.
Olga,
Your nationalistic brothers and sisters attack me all the time because I do not subscribe to their mythologies.
I have no regrets over advocating Enlightenment over the narrow and myopic nationalism that pervades the board.
You get your Brothers and Sisters to get over their Hungary is always a victim view and stop using that as an excuse for doing nothing … and Hungary might have a future.
By the way, Hungary’s life expectancy is 108th in the world. Where do you think come from? I see the gut lines. Obesity is rampant here.
Most Hungarians should drink drink less and go on a diet. Steer clear of the bars and langós places and for fuck sake avoid McDonalds at all cost.
A middle aged guy turned up the other day to do a repair on a small bridge in my village. He wore an orange T-Shirt and a pair of white overalls.
I drove past him at 11.00 in the morning and he was sitting in his van eating. Two hours later I returned to witness him savaging his last sandwich.
He was grossly overweight and his chubby red face looked as though it was about to explode.
The van disappeared a short while later without any noticeable improvement to the bridge.
@American,
“You get your Brothers and Sisters to get over their Hungary is always a victim view and stop using that as an excuse for doing nothing … and Hungary might have a future.”
American in Budapest at August 4, 2010 10:05 PM
Yes, you go ahead and tell that to your Jewish Brothers and Sisters you hypocrite.
Just sub Jews and Israel where you wrote Hungary and Hungarians on the above post, and one would see no difference.
If there ever was a crutch or a nipple that gets constantly sucked on for an excuse…that would be the Holocaust. We have Trianon.
@ American
Brothers and Sisters? You gotta be kidding.
I only know one person on this website who is a Hungarian living in Hungary and I would be proud to call my brother – Farkas Laszlo.
The rest of the Hungarians on this website who say they live in Hungary are a revolting bunch
I discovered this politics.hu last Sept.and the only person who I respected AND could communicate with was Vandorlo because I could click my mouse on his name and email him.
I told him where “I was coming from “and why and asked him if this website was a mirror of what Hungarians were really like. I was born in BP but grew up in Canada and blissfully unaware that E. Zundel clones inhabited my country of birth; if they were not busy hating Jews, they were busy hating Romas since they were the only minorities of course.
Anyway, I got one long email back from him; (just once)Unlike you, he loves Hungary and Hungarians and Thank God he asked me not to get the wrong impression from this website (I guess you know he is not Hungarian)
However, for whatever reason, you are living in Hungary – so hypothetically, if statistics showed they were the most overweight people in the world and dropping like flies as a result of it, it’s still unforgivable to write ” they like hogs being sent to the slaughter. ”
The “Richer and Smarter than V” ? kind of sad.
BTW, there is no job and no amount of money that would make me live in a country that I had such
contempt for; life is too short
“No, it is just *you* that are an unmitigated cunt.”
(Richer and Smarter…)
-
After reading this, I found myself wondering how one would mitigate…
-
Perhaps it wasn’t the ‘riches’ or ‘smartest’ choice of expressions, but that’s just me.
@Cin,
E-mail me again please, my laptop went wonky
Olga. A self-righteous, misguided whore, I would never hope to meet.
Stay in Canada and have some wet dreams about your boyfriend Vándorló.
We, the nasties/nazis, will stay here and beat ourselves into a pulp in the hope that one day we will live up to your, Great Expectations.
PS. Vándorló could be your brother. I think he would prefer to be your sister…
Peace everyone …
@ Pip
“whore” “wet dreams” “ boyfriend” “brother/sister” and its implication, “pimps and hookers” (pestiside.hu) – Interesting
When you get a minute from dealing with your sexual hang-ups , please look up the definition of “self-righteous” and then get back to me.
People in glass houses….
@Pip,
I have read some of your posts in the past and found you witty, reasonable and articulate.
So, when I read your post to Olga…my mouth fell open. You were one of the last people that I expected to deliver such a low blow.
We all have people on this site that we can barely tolerate, that being said…nothing can justify those types of names.
Slamming one another with great one liners, to me shows class…calling people ‘whore, pussy, c*nt etc…well, that just reduces you to the level of pig.
@justasking:
I think PiP is not equal Pip!
Hmmm, wolfi is correct. Whoever is posing as me is
doing it badly, very badly.
@fake Pip. Grow up you silly troll
I just got that “Great Expectations” joke… More
coffee, please.
I guess this would be the right thread to post
this news about Wikileaks “Human Rights Groups
Join Criticism of WikiLeaks”…
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240527487034
28604575419580947722558.html?
mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsTop
“WikiLeaks and Mr. Assange risk being isolated
from some of their most natural allies in the wake
of the documents’ publication.
“The human-rights groups involved are Amnesty
International; Campaign for Innocent Victims in
Conflict, or CIVIC; Open Society Institute, or
OSI, the charitable organization funded by George
Soros; Afghanistan Independent Human Rights
Commission; and the Kabul office of International
Crisis Group, or ICG.
“Mr. Assange then replied: “I’m very busy and have
no time to deal with people who prefer to do
nothing but cover their asses. If Amnesty does
nothing I shall issue a press release highlighting
its refusal,”
So….
Vandorlo, you LIKE this guy? What an a-hole!
@Bystander: I don’t repeat myself, I’ve made my position clear. If you wish to outline any point or argument to be engaged with I’ll certainly respond.
Nah, thanks… it really wasn’t meant to get an
answer from you, just more along the lines of “hey
look at this news today, what was that thread where
we were discussing this? To whom it may concern…”
Not trying to provoke you etc… Hope all is well,
no beef from me, etc.
@Bystander: Just wondered if you know WSJ is part of the FOX group and that they collectively made a $1million donation to the Republicans – yes, those people that got you into the conflict and have plenty to hide. They have a vested interest in shutting wikileaks down, at any cost.
Still, maybe the attack on Iran’s nuclear reactor will come in the next few days, half-backed by the US, pitching Russia/Iran/Brazil/Turkey against them and lots of really scary shit will ensue that will make the wikileaks problem pale. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lftVkbbMoBk
@Amcık: “I see the gut lines. Obesity is rampant here.” American in Budapest at August 4, 2010 10:05 PM
Latest Gallup research makes interesting reading: “More than 6 in 10 American adults (62.9%) were either overweight (36.3%) or obese (26.6%) in 2010, on par with 2009, but still more than the 62.2% in 2008.” (source: http://bit.ly/i38PoV )