November 29th, 2010

WikiLeaks publishes diplomatic documents on Hungary

US diplomatic documents released on Sunday by whistle-blowing website WikiLeaks include 734 reports dealing with Hungary, according to the German Der Spiegel magazine’s website.

Most of the documents concerned were written in 2006 and in the subsequent years. The magazine did not disclose the content of any document, only their level of classification.

Accordingly, four of the 734 documents belong to the “Secret – NOFORN” category meaning that they should not be made accessible to non-US nationals. Another 32 documents on Hungary were classified as “Secret”.

The package includes seven “Confidential – NOFORN” documents while 408 cables from Budapest were classified as “Confidential”.

The rest of the diplomatic documents were either restricted for official use or not classified at all.

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164 Comments

  1. Che says:

    It is no surprise for the governments I think.
    They very well known what the US think about their politicians , country. Only those small not real background 3rd. world countries (whose has no well organized agencies, informations) can be a surprise this.
    BUT… For the communities, for the peoples it will be a real surprise!!! And they will push the politicians to do something. At least at the elections they will make the decisions and will control support or not things going behind US interest. So the reputation of US will be so so so down that no one will believe what anyone –even it is Mr. Obama— telling International situations :-) ( who has a much better reputation in EU than Mr. Bush, Clinton or Reagan had before)
    And if the peoples are enough smart than they should know that this is not a secret for their own government, agency …
    So if their politicians knows about it why they still send troops to those wars and support US interests if they report bad, and think as stupids of their countries, politicians, situations , movements and triing to manupulate them.
    Because the world is really out of that. All about only power, interests, money and nothing else (communities, peoples) is in count. We already lost the last small portions of reality in the 80′s.

  2. Elle says:

    This is so damned silly! Has anyone wondered why the international press is going bananas on these ‘leaks’? They are not leaks at all. They are strategically placed bits of embarrassment for the US and some Arab countries. The most venal country in the world, Israel, manages to come off without a spot of bother. So what does this tell us about who did the ‘leaking’? Here is a nice insight: Gordon Duff – Wikileaks, a Touch of Assange and the Stench of AIPAC, http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=15236.

  3. Viking says:

    Elle at November 29, 2010 1:07 PM

    Ahh,
    “Cherchez la femme”
    in ‘elle/our little hussar’ version is:
    “Cherchez le Juif”
    Look for the Jew behind every stone and you will have your conspiracy

  4. Viking says:

    Actually ‘elles’ comment is as funny as the Government’s “pension protection commissioner” (contradiction of terms) Gabriella Selmeczi, who claimed Friday that:
    “It was the government’s “resolute intention” to allow those returning to the state pension pillar to take their assets out without paying any tax or contribution on the real yield, but “the lawyers noted that this was not possible, and that it would be unjust”, Ms Selmeczi said. Thus the gains on the assets will be taxed under the flat-rate 16pc personal income tax, she added”
    -
    http://www.realdeal.hu/20101129/hungarians-returning-to-state-pension-pillar-to-pay-tax-on-real-yields
    -
    ‘Aaahhh, The Lawyers Made Us Do It!’
    Just hilarious ‘blame some one else when you fucked up’ symptom
    What would not John Stewart do with that statement

  5. quatermass says:

    Yawn… so some people say unpleasant things about Hungary – it
    can’t possibly be worse than the ghastly truth! As for the rest -
    well, it’s just confirmation of what we all suspected – or should
    have suspected given a reasonable assessment of the situations and
    human motives. Arab countries want the US to bomb the Iranian A-
    Bomb plants.. oh really! I’m so shocked!It was the US behind the
    drone air strikes in Yemen, and not the Yemeni air force – wow…
    didn’t suspect that. Diplomat A thinks Head of State B is a moron…
    the US doesn’t care about Europe… move along, nothing to see
    here.

  6. Erik says:

    Elle: Unlikely. Assange and Co. are just old-
    fashioned anti-US lefties, and Israel is just a much
    harder target than the US in terms of leaks.

  7. Elle says:

    Erik, as Gordon Duff says, there is not much Assange in this leak. Look to AIPAC instead. But yes: ‘Israel is just a much harder target than the US in terms of leaks’ – especially when AIPAC is doing the leaking.
    Take the old ‘qui bono’ look, too. Israel has been campaigning for years for a US attack on Iran. The so-called Wikileak (really, AIPAC leak) now ‘proves’ that so many ‘world leaders’ also want an attack on Iran. Mark my words: every single item of the leaks, supposing we get to see them, will be of the usual ‘good for Israel’ sort. And that is why NYT and all the Jew-owned or Jew-controlled media are pumping up this leak business relentlessly.

  8. Erik says:

    @Elle: Wake me when you discover something bad
    that’s happened in the world that AIPAC or the
    Hebrews aren’t behind. In the meantime, zzzzzzz.

  9. Elle says:

    Erik, you can do better than echo the village idiot. (Then again, I cannot remember what makes me assume that.) Also: ‘bad’? You are not listing the silly Wikileaks in that category, are you? That would be too naïve. It has not managed to do more mischief that the average gossip columnist can bring off. Taking the wide view of ‘bad’, though … oh, never mind. Sleep on.

  10. Viking says:


    I do not know if I think this cable is pro-Israel, more a realistic opinion:
    “Regarding what he considered Iran’s true nuclear capabilities, a 2007 cable quoted outgoing Mossad chief Meir Dagan as stating that Tehran was attempting to convey a “false presentation that they have mastered the uranium enrichment process.”
    “The reality is,” Dagan said, “that they are not there yet, and they are paying a heavy political price [sanctions] for something they have yet to achieve.”
    In Dagan’s view, the 2007 cable stated, there wasn’t an “ideological conflict within the Iranian leadership (all wish to see the destruction of Israel), but there is a growing divide on tactics with some supporting a retaliatory position against the West and others favoring new policies of moderation”"
    -
    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/wikileaks-expose-barak-warned-strike-on-iran-was-viable-until-end-of-2010-1.327453
    -
    On the other hand what would ‘elle’ see in the cables:
    * Israel has illegal nuclear weapons
    (big deal, remember whistle-blower Mordechai Vanunu?)
    * Israel kills innocent people
    (eehh, ever checked the Palestine conflict or the Ship2Gaza lately?)
    * Israel spies on the US
    (Never heard of Jonathan Jay Pollard a former civilian intelligence analyst who was convicted of spying for Israel. He received a life sentence in 1987?)
    Just because every news is not about how bad Israel is, does not mean that it is Israel behind the news
    But that may be too complicated for ‘elle’

  11. Fenyő says:

    Elle, you are a real nutcase. You should be hospitalized and the sooner the better.

  12. Elle says:

    I do wish Páva were back! The ‘you should be hospitalised/medicated’ types have forgotten his salutary point: This is commie nostalgia for a time when it was the norm to hospitalize/medicate all non-commies. By golly the volga olga/Fenyős of this world make me want to throw up.

  13. Bystander says:

    @Elle,
    The feeling is QUITE MUTUAL.
    Erik was right about YOU being the Village Idiot.
    So, *now* the Wikileaks revelations are the work
    of an Israeli provocateur?!
    The fact that you have no IDEA of what an idiot
    you sound must be a continual source of
    consternation to you. Get used to the sound of
    laughter after you speak, if you’re not used to it
    already. That will follow you for a lifetime the
    way it’s looking.
    Awesome comedy… Wikileaks = THE JEWS. U R
    INCREDIBLE.

  14. olga says:

    @ Crime
    “Imagine any other similarly tiny country would get for violating basic international law, going around the world, killing people they don’t like. ”
    I am not familiar with Israel or Israeli laws but no one ever told me it was violating basic international laws if I went around killing people I didn’t like.
    Shit – do you know if this law applies to Canada as well?
    Probably not because we are not a tiny country, but for minute, you had me worried there.

  15. Fenyő says:

    @Elle: Paranoia can be treated with medicine, and people who blame everything on Jews and Communists are paranoids, not to mention anti-Semitic bigots. But hey, if you enjoy being the laughing stock of this website, go ahead!

  16. Law says:

    “WikiLeaks release not a problem for Israel”
    Netanyahu says, it doesn’t take anyone with a bit of
    common sense to see who is behind this scandal.

  17. Law says:

    Wikileaks is an intelligence operation to weaken and
    undermine the American government, orchestrated from
    Tel Aviv, using dozens of operatives, dual citizens,
    some at the highest authority levels, spies for
    Israel. Through leaking carefully selected
    intelligence along with proven falsified documents,
    all fed to a controlled press, fully complicit,
    Wikileaks is, in fact, an act of war against the
    United States.

  18. Anonymous says:

    Law is an intelligence operation to weaken and dumb down Hungarians, orchestrated by the highest authorities in comedy & controlled by the evil Ben Stiller.

  19. Viking says:

    Wikileaks is an intelligence operation to weaken and undermine the American government
    Law at November 30, 2010 8:42 AM

    OMG, you are now a ‘defender of the American government’?
    Is not the ‘American government’ the root to all evil in the world?
    Remember how you guys defended Saddam Hussein and the Iranian leadership yesterday, but today you are a ‘defender of the American government’?
    The ‘ricsi’-gang has no principles, just a ‘being against’-opinion
    That it sometimes take them on a 360-degree tour, just make them feel good in their heads, you know that buzzing feeling when it goes to fast
    The problem is that they mistake it for ‘brain activity’
    But at least they cause a laugh or two per day, so it is good to have them around for amusement

  20. judas says:

    What is all this fuss about???
    1)Diplomats worldwide collect infos and report
    to their respective home-offices.They include
    assesments and personal opinios and they try too
    to characterize political leaders. 99% of all written mails are never read by anybody anyway.
    2)There is no surprise learning that certain
    neighbouring states of iran like to see the iranian reginme gone. There are no secrets here.
    3)To be honest. It is more an implosion than an explosion what we got to know til now.
    4) If Mr.Assange however wanted to divert from his
    legal problems in Sweden (rape-charges) than he might have succeeded, Otherwise it’s “STUIOT”

  21. judas says:

    the real for hungary is however this:
    ECHO TV had 2 days ago (sunday) an interview
    with israels ambassador to Hungary(a good looking
    and intelligent lady).
    What happened to ECHO? What they are up to?
    No more jew or roma bashing,no anti-roma or
    anti semitic crab? Is this the new hungary?

  22. judas says:

    and dear elle:
    wikileaks and israel:
    if you would know a little bit about israeli
    politics you would know too,that we do not need wikileaks to leak infos. In israel everything is being leaked anyway to the media and thus into the public domain.

  23. Censor Librorum says:

    A post is missing. Where did it go? Was it offensive to such a degree that the public needed to be protected from reading it? No.
    If I remember correctly, it was simply critical of Israel and its kidnapping and assassinations on foreign territory. Looks like this is a Mossad-friendly site.

  24. judas says:

    censor librorum
    i am deeply sorry.I found your posting. I will return it to sender.

  25. judas says:

    i mean ,i will sent it to wikileaks. You will read
    there as annother “breaking news” item.:)
    hope you don’t mind

  26. judas says:

    and here a summary of wikileaks papers describing
    european and other leaders:
    angela merkel = teflon
    guido westerwelle=revlon
    silvio berlusconi=mumbo jumbo-n
    putin=felon
    orban=papillon
    hugo chavez=ballon
    british PM=colon
    netanyahu=mouflon
    iranian pm=moron
    to be extended with next releases from wikileaks

  27. LHVJ says:

    @Elle
    Personal attacks are the standard zionazi response to everything they do not like.
    Mention the Jewish bankers and…
    Mention the Jewish Communists and…
    Mention Nazi Israel and its brutal treatment of Palestinians and…
    Mention Israeli white slavery and…
    Mention the Jewish slave traders and…
    Mention the Jewish prono industry and…
    Mention anything negative about the zionazis and…
    The list of unmentionables is getting so long that the only safe thing is to ask the zionazis what it is that we can discuss and how to avoid the personal from the zionazis.
    Erik, could you post such a list to keep us out of trouble. Thank you

  28. olga says:

    @ Judas
    I am writing this posting from a bunker realizing that everything the crazies have been saying about Israel is true.
    Bad enough I grew up in a Marxist-Communist country called Canada where the education system brain-washed me, but as of this morning I had to face the Truth (capital T) that all the Canadian newspapers, TV and media outlets have been taken over by Mossad and they are dissiminating false information about the WikiLeaks.
    It seems that Israel was not what the Arab Leaders feared (Hah!) – it was Iran; the UAE Military deemed that Ahmadinejad was crazy and while Lebanese leaders showed friendship towards Iran, they secretly wanted the US to attack them.
    I know all this is a pack of lies and the WikiLeaks were written by Mossad agents and I am fed up with Israel.
    It was not enough for “you people” to pick Hungary as your Number 1 target, now you took over the Canadian media.
    You should be ashamed of yourself – and so should Bystander.
    Gotta go and find out the TRUTH from Stormfront and I pray Mossad has not got to them first.
    BTW, one of our own allegedly made a statement that Canada was like “Alice in Wonderland” when it came to terrorism – another Israeli lie although I heard that from many of our friends and I agree with that – which shows how brainwashed I really am by these diabolical Israelis.
    Where is David Irving when we need him?

  29. olga says:

    @ Lopott
    Re: “Personal attacks are the standard zionazi response to everything they do not like.”
    Oh my God !! They got to you too. I just admitted that the Zionist took over the Canadian Media and now I find out you are one them. Et tu, Brute?
    I need another coffee – can’t handle any more bad news this morning

  30. Ludmilla Ivanovna says:

    Menj aludni Olga.

  31. olga says:

    Kedves Ludmilla
    Sajnos tul sok kavet ittam

  32. judas says:

    dear olga,
    if only my mossad friends would have known before
    what pain we might cause we would have left
    canada alone.
    And with respect to hungary. Our involvement here
    is simply due to a communication error in our
    east europe desk. “if you are hungry ,eat” was mistakenly
    decoded as: ” Eat Hungary “. So thats why we took
    over Hungary. The rest of the world though was fairly easy..piece of cake so to speak.
    But what now? Now we are quarreling between each other. No real enemy anynore. We are everywhere,
    anytime. …..New zealand maybe is still open territory though…

  33. Bystander says:

    “You should be ashamed of yourself – and so should
    Bystander.”
    I am SO deeply ashamed that my “home country”
    Israel created this fictional character “Julian
    Assange” who was created to smear the USA through
    his Wikileaks… Or wait, I’m so deeply ashamed
    that my “home country” the USA created this
    fictional character to make itself look bad, no,
    wait… I’m so deeply ashamed that all the
    Wikileaks revelations make Israel look justified
    in its… wait….
    Somewhere there’s an angle that Elle and her ‘ilk’
    (Bobs? Pava?) will try and turn the Wikileaks
    publication into another Red Commuter Plane Over
    Budapest Herring incident…
    It’s Israel I tells ya!

  34. olga says:

    @ Judas and Bystander
    Judas – Let me know when you guys take over New Zealand – my son loved both the country and the people (liked it better than Australia) so I must let him know to sign up for Hebrew lessons before he decides to visit there again.
    Bystander – You may disagree but I never thought for a minute that Pava or Ricsi were “certifiable” while I never doubted that Lopott, Elle and Law were

  35. Viking says:

    That WikiLeaks and Julian Assange is just an Israeli Operation is now confirmed by Interpol putting up Julian Assange on their “Most Wanted”-list:
    -
    http://www.interpol.int/public/data/wanted/notices/data/2010/86/2010_52486.asp
    -
    Obviously a real blow against the Jewish World Conspiracy
    Or it is proof that WikiLeaks and Julian Assange is not part of the Jewish Take Over, then those guys are never punished. That is normally how you recognise them, according to ‘ricsi’ and friends

  36. judas says:

    dear Viking and like minded….
    there is a “Common sense society” working
    and very active in Budapest.
    Maybe you should join them al least for one
    session.

  37. Viking Leaks says:

    “Jewish World Conspiracy”
    Also known as the elephant in the room.

  38. Magma says:

    Information impresses me, why do you have to scribble about it – it makes no use – better write about moving boxes – I need it

  39. olga says:

    @ Judas
    Re: “”if you are hungry ,eat” was mistakenly
    decoded as: ” Eat Hungary ”
    That was very funny. I meant to tell you before.
    Re: :there is a “Common sense society” working
    and very active in Budapest.”
    Sounds like a variation of the Jon Stewart “Rally to Restore Sanity” in Washington

  40. Vándorló says:

    Another great day for American style ‘democracy’.
    @Erik: When you and American in Budapest were congratulating yourselves on having a healthy democracy last week, were you kidding? I only ask, since I know of no country which makes a bigger show of claiming one thing whilst doing just the same as the ‘less’ democratic ones. Everything these days is extra-judicial. You torture, rape, assassinate at will. You get other countries to provide you with the locations to do this. You intimidate journalists to the point were they no longer call torture ‘torture’. Honestly, any US citizen that still has a holier than thou attitude should climb right out of their own ass.
    Here’s the American dream 2010: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/01/us-embassy-cables-executed-mike-huckabee

  41. Vándorló is an Ass says:

    Vándorló ranting and raving as usual and providing irrelevant web links.
    We need to find Vándorló a job so his insecurity can be lessened …

  42. Viking says:

    Actually even a Canadian top advisory is calling for the killing of Julian Assange:
    -
    http://looncanada.com/2010/11/30/top-advisor-to-stephen-harper-calls-for-fatwa-against-wikileaks-director-julian-assange/
    -
    “Flanagan who is a trusted member of PM Harper’s inner circle of Tory strategists joins Sarah Palin in calling for the death of the Wikileaks director as retribution for the website’s release of confidential diplomatic and intelligence “chatter” this week”
    ‘Free Speech’ seems to be a bit limited on the other side of the pond, despite what our Little Hussar normally claims
    On the European side people against ‘Free Speech’ normally call for people to be arrested, not outright killed/executed for making a statement

  43. American in Budapest says:

    So Vandolo, what aspect of Hungary to you want to compare with the US? Corruption? Life expectancy? Number of universities in the world’s top hundred? Economic development? Tax evasion? Drinking and smoking habits? Contributions to science and technology in the 19th and 20th centuries? Democratic traditions?
    I wish the Hungarians the best, but any comparison today will not flatter your tiszta magyar ego …

  44. Bystander says:

    I don’t think Vandorlo is a “tiszta magyar” (I
    could be wrong/surprised I guess) just FYI…
    I happen to think that Assange should be
    *arrested* but not assassinated etc. If he has a
    really good case to present, he can present it in
    court and maybe sway a jury…
    One may say that nations should not HAVE “armies”
    in this day and age (I wish I could agree, that it
    were that simple), but as long as we DO, some
    secrets are essential to preserving the lives of
    the troops. If armies DO exist and I had a child
    near a battlefield somewhere, I *certainly* do not
    think that it is the public’s right to know in
    what ditch he is hiding or the name of the local
    chieftain who happened to decide to cooperate
    against the Taliban.
    I think Assange could have done a LOT more
    productive things with his abilities and time. As
    one example, in the first Afghanistan leak he
    didn’t bother to “scrub” the names of informants
    when there is widely available easy to implement
    code that would do this for him… But “fame”
    necessitated a speedy and dramatic release… so
    if a bunch of chieftains that helped us rid them
    of Taliban intimidation happen to die and no one
    ever wants to risk their necks again leading to
    permanent Taliban domination and Afghani women
    never having rights or going to school, hey, it’s
    no skin off Assange’s back!
    But having said that, assassination is not the
    answer, in my opinion.

  45. Viking says:

    That the WikiLeaks and Julian Assange are Zionist operations are rejected by David Duke himself, hailing WikiLeaks as:
    “Wikileaks exposes Zionist Treachery”:
    -
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgI1aph7AsE
    -
    So, who should we believe?
    Law or David Duke?
    David Duke or ‘elle’?
    They cannot all be correct at the same time

  46. Vándorló says:

    @Americunt: “I wish the Hungarians the best” That’s the thing, you don’t. You wish no-one well.
    “what aspect of Hungary to you want to compare with the US?” How about talking through their arse and being two-faced? Oh sorry, you win again.
    How about destroying democratically elected governments. Bollocks, you win again. Fuck, there must be something?
    How about having a currency everyone wants to bin but they can’t ‘cos they have too much of the stuff.
    And shit for brains, you have already had the figures from me on obesity etc… Maybe we could look at social inequality?
    Here’s the thing pea-brain. I wasn’t comparing, I was stating a fact. America is a two faced country run by hypocrites and cunts such as yourself only underline my assertion.

  47. Reality says:

    Viking knobhead-suggest you actually watch the whole video

  48. Vándorló says:

    @Bystander: Nice that you would agree to give him the pantomime of a judicial hearing and not the subject him to the practice of extraordinary rendition and an extrajudicial hearing.
    As I said last time you raised the themes you have just repeated, I don’t repeat myself.

  49. Bystander says:

    Well, if it wasn’t for us repeating ourselves
    every article on this site would only have about 2
    or 3 posts max, below. Hey I ate breakfast AGAIN
    today, but it was still enjoyable… Learning how
    to enjoy life regardless of what’s dealt to us is
    a gift… Vandorlo sounds awful cranky today, the
    offer to share my “secret to happiness” is hereby
    extended.
    Oh, Vandorlo, I’m not being a smartass because I
    usually (but not always) agree with you… when
    you said “America is a two faced country run by
    hypocrites and cunts such as yourself”, I was
    wondering if you could reel off a short list of
    countries that are far *superior* (e.g. having
    only one face or something)? I’m not doubting
    they exist… I really would like to know what you
    would name, which would help me get a handle on
    your frame of reference.
    Thanks in advance if you have the time.

  50. Viking says:

    Viking knobhead-suggest you actually watch the whole video
    Reality at December 1, 2010 4:28 PM

    Yes I did and where did Duke claim:
    -
    “They are not leaks at all. They are strategically placed bits of embarrassment for the US and some Arab countries. The most venal country in the world, Israel, manages to come off without a spot of bother
    Elle at November 29, 2010 1:07 PM”
    -
    “”WikiLeaks release not a problem for Israel”
    Netanyahu says, it doesn’t take anyone with a bit of
    common sense to see who is behind this scandal.
    Law at November 30, 2010 8:41 AM”

    So, who is right?
    Duke, who claims that
    “Wikileaks exposes Zionist Treachery”?
    Duke is not claiming that WikiLeaks is bad and he uses it to push his points on how bad Israel and Jews are. Hardly a thing if it was material to support Israel’s aims/goals, then that would make Duke just another Israeli operation, Right?

  51. Vándorló says:

    @Bystander: “I was wondering if you could reel off a short list of countries that are far *superior*” But you know I can’t. That isn’t my argument. I am not claiming anything more than the fact that the US foreign and internal policy, its respect for the freedom of speech and its social violation of individual and collective rights is exactly the same as any other colonial power now and in the past.
    If it helps, the frame of reference is orthogonal to Erik’s, Americunt’s and, I suspect, your own line of thinking.
    There are Universal Declarations of Human Rights for individuals, there is the United Nations Convention Against Torture, European Convention on Human Rights, etc… The US shits on all these. It doesn’t even respect any other country’s autonomy and legal framework. They have granted themselves unlimited powers to do anything they like to anyone, where ever they like without reprise, repercussion or explanation.
    They do have a lovely White House, House of Representatives, Senate, ‘separation of judicial powers’, etc… Theoretically it’s perfect. As long as you do what you’re told and aren’t unlucky enough to be on their shopping list you are fine. Woe betide you draw attention to 122,000 real civilian deaths as opposed to potential deaths of some US informers (ref: http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ )
    So, while everyone makes a fuss over these potential deaths, the US murders are all documented in excruciating detail. Meanwhile the messenger is on the run for his life

  52. Vándorló says:

    @Bystander: Just for the record, internal government memos note that no individual’s safety was actually compromised. Meanwhile the US leaned on anyone and everyone to hunt him down: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1pTl8KdREk
    They are one group of fuckers, pure and simple. You go right ahead defending US ‘democracy’ and condoning how it behaves.

  53. Bystander says:

    Let’s just agree to disagree. Unless you can
    point me to an example of a “working democracy”
    that is able to ensure its own security without
    occasionally having to pull out the “claws” how do
    I know it’s even POSSIBLE (ie without being
    overrun by enemies in one’s feel-good-attempt-at-
    total-openness/transparency).
    Since no such example exists, the discussion is
    perhaps rendered partially moot, thus I will fall
    back on “I’ll agree to disagree with you,
    hopefully without being disagreeable”.
    Sorry, in *my* opinion based on *my* experiences
    with the world, Walking Softly And Carrying A Big
    Pillow leads to ruin regarding national security.
    Nasty, yes, happy to consider a counterexample
    that *works* when you notice one happening in the
    real world.
    It doesn’t mean I condone *remotely* everything
    the US does, and in fact am very UPSET about the
    wars and bad things done; however, just throwing
    our hands up and basically tapping our own phone
    lines and handing them to our enemies is stupid. I
    think that if you have 10000 Julian Assanges, the
    US will be crippled and you’ll have China or
    Russia etc. saying “hey maybe THEY don’t wanna
    play dirty, but I think this is our CUE!”
    And re: “Internal Memos” about Assange, could you
    produce those? Cause I too have heard data that
    claims that the Taliban is *actively* seeking to
    murder anyone named in the documents. Just cause
    we don’t have gravestones yet doesn’t mean it
    hasn’t/won’t happen. My information is different
    from yours.

  54. Vándorló says:

    @Bystander: No, I won’t agree to disagree. I just disagree. Supporting extrajudicial procedures, extraordinary rendition, torture etc… and claiming you are not condoning it is hypocritical and ridiculous.
    And this bit: “…to ensure its own security without
    occasionally having to pull out the “claws”…” In many cases it has nothing to do with its security. But the word “occasional” is pathetic. Yes, pathetic. Unless civilian 122,000 deaths is warranted. Since 2001 the US has illegally seized at least 3,000 people under extraordinary rendition.
    Ridiculous and wet excuses.
    Though, I do suppose you would support the leaks as long as it hits the right people, not your irrational nationalism: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704594804575648382616807158.html
    On the internal reports what would you like? Should I get you the originals and have them couriered over? Seems a reasonable like of argument.
    How about you just searching on “The Associated Press has obtained a Pentagon letter reporting that no U.S. intelligence sources or practices were compromised by the posting of secret Afghan war logs.” But, you will note all the original articles have been wiped, almost universally. Though they are still cached by Google. Maybe you are right. Maybe this memo didn’t exist and the Associated Press just made it all up and published a story on it. Given how sensitive this is, that’s exactly the kind of risk I’d take if I wasn’t sure.

  55. Bystander says:

    I already said I have issues with various things
    my government has done but that doesn’t mean I
    disagree with *everything*… However Al Qaeda is
    pretty f-ing nasty and I’d like to know how you’d
    deal with them, any suggestions?
    From everyone’s favorite site,
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghan_War_documents_
    leak
    The leak reportedly names hundreds of Afghan
    informants. The Times offered as examples[52]
    a 2008 report that includes a detailed interview
    with a Taliban fighter considering defection and
    ends with “[t]he meeting ended with [named person]
    agreeing to meet intel personnel.” Both his
    father’s name and village are also included in the
    report;
    a report that read “[named person] said he would
    be killed if he got caught interacting with any
    coalition forces, which is why he hides when we go
    into [named location]“.
    The paper also found that a man killed by the
    Taliban two years ago after being suspected of
    spying for American forces was named in the logs
    and described as “highly pro-Government of
    Afghanistan and Coalition Forces. He should be
    taken seriously in his claims of insurgent
    knowledge.” Another report gave the names,
    father’s names, tribe, village and GPS co-
    ordinates for homes of individual villagers while
    stating that “[named person] wanted to help us as
    much as possible… [but] they were afraid that
    the people in the next village would see them
    talking to Americans.”[53][clarification needed]

    (Cont’d)

  56. Vándorló says:

    @Bystander: 122,000 civilian deaths and you are scraping together 1 or 2? FFS! Watch the video I posted earlier.
    You always end up defending the indefensible.
    American democracy is an oxymoron these days. Unless, of course, you are doing the electoral waltz.
    Real deaths, not hypothetical.
    Tell me this, two questions:
    1. Who is doing the greater good for freedom and democracy, US or Assange?
    2. Who is doing the greater damage to freedom and democracy, US or Assange?

  57. Bystander says:

    (Cont’d)
    Jane Harman, chairwoman of the Congressional
    Homeland Security Subcommittee on Intelligence,
    said that the Taliban had been given “its new
    ‘enemies list’.”[54] Ahmad Nader Nadery, a
    commissioner at the Afghanistan Independent Human
    Rights Commission, said that revealing the names
    and villages of people who interacted with U.S.
    troops was an “irresponsibility”.[55]
    The U.S. Secretary of Defense and former CIA
    director Robert M. Gates said that the
    announcement by the Taliban that they were going
    through the dispatches proved that the disclosures
    imperiled Afghans who had aided American forces.
    “Growing up in the intelligence business,
    protecting your sources is sacrosanct”.[57]

    I think since the leak only happened in October
    and the reports you mention upon googling as you
    suggested seem to all come up with OCTOBER dates,
    perhaps the jury is still out on who has been
    retaliated against. You seem PRETTY darn sure of
    yourself regarding a number of things… For
    someone who hates the USA so much you try and
    sound like you have an “inside man” with all the
    latest and greatest info, and I DO NOT BELIEVE
    THAT.

  58. Bystander says:

    Hey, Vandorlo…
    Tell me WHO CAUSED THOSE DEATHS? TALIBAN IEDs? That
    blow up schools we keep building for women?
    I give up, go tell it to the breeze.
    Did Assange give fucking BILLIONS in aid all over
    the world? Did Assange feed hungry people?
    I give up, you’re pissing me off.

  59. Vándorló says:

    @Bystander: “Jane Harman, chairwoman of the Congressional Homeland Security Subcommittee on Intelligence” FFS!!
    The Homeland Security Subcommittee on Intelligence, Information Sharing, and Terrorism Risk Assessment is a subcommittee within the House Homeland Security Committee.
    So your creditable, unbiased source would be from the U.S. House Committee on Homeland Security. Which is a standing committee of the United States House of Representatives, the lower house of Congress. Its responsibilities include U.S. security legislation and oversight of the Department of Homeland Security.
    You are quoting the US government ass-hat. This is getting boring and trivial. Do you think they might not, perchance, be quite so objective as one might suppose or desire?

  60. Vándorló says:

    @Bystander: Got to love you and your bleeding heart. You get weepy with one woman and child, but 122,000 is just a number. Fuck the thousands, Bystander is crying for the photo opportunity.
    Soap Opera TV is your thing.
    Feel the weight of 122,000 lost souls and feel humbled and disgusted.

  61. Bystander says:

    I told you I had big problems with the wars, and
    now you want to make it MY FAULT?
    Your disingenuous debate style trying to paint me
    as a killer is a disappointment from someone who
    earlier I had a bit of respect for.
    Eventually maybe a terrorist will get ahold of a
    nuclear weapon and I’m depending on you and
    Assange to personally fend of the literally multi-
    million deaths that might ensue. If you let me
    down I will be greatly disappointed.
    When you get off your high horse and debate fairly
    and show me a REAL WORLD example of a nation that
    can function in the absence of a Defense
    Department I will come back and discuss it.
    In the meantime show me where I said I had no
    regrets for how the wars have turned out.
    Just because I’m from the US you paint me as
    responsible. News Flash: I voted AGAINST Bush,
    against the war in Iraq (thru my votes) and voted
    FOR Obama (in protest) and so forth.
    So for you to try and paint ME personally as
    insensitive to deaths of innocents as we try to
    solve an almost unsolvable situation I say “YOU
    are guilty of systematically murdering Kurds and
    genocide on the fucking Armenians”. As long as
    logic is out the window, might as well take THAT!

  62. Bystander says:

    As long as you’re calling me an “asshat” I just
    saw one of your posts I missed and then I’m out of
    here:
    Van:”So your creditable, unbiased source would be
    from the U.S. House Committee on Homeland
    Security. Which is a standing committee of the
    United States House of Representatives, the lower
    house of Congress. Its responsibilities include
    U.S. security legislation and oversight of the
    Department of Homeland Security.
    You are quoting the US government ass-hat.
    Yes I AM in response to your comment about a
    PENTAGON LETTER (hint… YOU quoted the US gov’t
    Mr. Disingenuous Debater!) when you said:
    “The Associated Press has obtained a
    Pentagon letter reporting that no U.S.
    intelligence sources or practices were compromised
    by the posting of secret Afghan war logs.”

    So I countered with an entry that REFUTED your
    claim based on similar sourcing.
    If the “ass-hat” fits, you should wear it. In the
    meantime I would like to point out that your
    debating style echoes BobsCountryBunker where you
    think you can slip ‘n’ slide and paint accusations
    willy-nilly and no one will call you on it.
    In the meantime please explain what you do that is
    so amazingly helpful to the world that you feel
    you can sit way up high on your horse and
    criticize everyone else. Your naive worldview
    perhaps does not translate into any real, workable
    government policy that might deal with people who
    don’t play “fair”. On other topics I agree w/you,
    but on this one I do NOT.

  63. Observer says:

    “please explain what you do that is
    so amazingly helpful to the world”
    Well, he makes sense and knows what he’s talking about.
    Now it’s your turn: find an excuse for your pitiful existence.

  64. Vándorló says:

    @Bystander: Just for the record: http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/11/28/1947638/no-evidence-that-wikileaks-releases.html
    And if you read the Economist there have been some decent articles and blog posts on their recently. Also over at thenation.com and plenty of other places.
    I particularly like this bit: “(D)rawing on the documents made available by WikiLeaks, the ACLU reports that the Bush administration “pressured Germany not to prosecute CIA officers responsible for the kidnapping, extraordinary rendition and torture of German national Khaled El-Masri”, a terrorism suspect dumped in Albania once the CIA determined it had nabbed a nobody. I consider kidnapping and torture serious crimes, and I think it’s interesting indeed if the United States government applied pressure to foreign governments to ensure complicity in the cover-up of it agents’ abuses”
    And this: “11:45 Just noticed that original lead NYT story online earlier today said documents showed that U.S. and South Korea had been “gaming” the collapse of North Korea. Not reads “thinking about.” ”
    Another blow for democracy.. Go USA!

  65. Bystander says:

    Don’t you mean “Go North Korea!”?
    Since you never seem to have a bad word to say about
    them, nor Iran, Russia, China… I guess THOSE are
    the “model nations” in your world, huh?

  66. Bystander says:

    BTW, I just read your Miami Herald link,
    Vandorlo…
    Did you even READ the link *you* sent me? From
    the story:
    First off, it states that it was the *newspapers*
    only that redacted the names of people in danger:
    “Together, the five newspapers [ie NOT WIKILEAKS]
    have carefully edited the raw text used to remove
    all names and indices whose disclosure could pose
    risks to individuals,” Le Monde said.
    THEN, ALL FROM *YOUR* ARTICLE BELOW…
    “We have yet to see any harm come to anyone in
    Afghanistan that we can directly tie to exposure
    in the WikiLeaks documents,” Morrell told the
    Washington Post on Aug 11. But “there is in all
    likelihood a lag between exposure of these
    documents and jeopardy in the field.”

    “Despite that, the government has maintained that
    the release of the documents could put people in
    grave danger. In a letter to WikiLeaks Saturday,
    the State Department’s legal adviser, Harold Koh,
    said that the release “could place at risk the
    lives of countless innocent individuals – from
    journalists to human rights activists and bloggers
    to soldiers to individuals providing information
    to further peace and security.”
    “Despite your stated desire to protect those
    lives, you have done the opposite and endangered
    the lives of countless individuals. You have
    undermined your stated objective by disseminating
    this material widely, without redaction, and
    without regard to the security and sanctity of the
    lives your actions endanger,” Koh said.
    I rest my case.

  67. Vándorló says:

    @Bystander: What do you want. First you moan that they don’t work with people or listen, then when they do you try to claim that they were not part of that responsive cooperative agreement and dealing with people’s concerns.
    The bottom line is this: you excuse 122,000 real deaths, 3,000 cases of illegal abduction and torture. The torture of innocent people.
    You then try to find 1 or two people who were theoretically effected by the release of data – which has not even been demonstrated by you or any of the articles I have linked to and provided. You have yet to provide *ANY* data.
    Bystander, you are having problems muttering the truth because it conflicts with the aberrant self-image you have. You condone and support a murderous state. Who is killing, torturing and assassinating people at will? Your beloved country. You just can’t bring yourself to speak the truth.
    You are, as I have said of others, two-faced. Though I think in your case you are simply self-deluded.
    And I repeat, you are one vacuous ass-hat. You are quoting not the article I provided but the words of Harold Hongju Koh, who is The Legal Adviser of the Department of State within a department of the United States federal executive.
    So again, you are quoting the US government. You can’t fucking read or follow an argument. Then you proudly declare: “I rest my case.”
    You really are gifted.
    Carry on being two faced and defending the indefensible. With 122,000 and counting your cunt-ry needs people like you.

  68. Moha Med says:

    Of all countries starting with the letter “I” I only like Iran. You can nuke the rest, leave Iran alone already. Nice folks live there, they make better friends than enemies.

  69. Bystander says:

    @Van,
    “you excuse 122,000 real deaths, 3,000 cases of
    illegal abduction and torture. The torture of
    innocent people.”
    Show me where the fuck I DO that, asshat. I
    stated over and over that I was not a fan of these
    wars, and in fact I think that NATO should get OUT
    of Afghanistan ASAP. Where do you get off putting
    words in my mouth?
    Now show ME where YOU criticize any OTHER “evil”
    countries… EEEEEVER.
    In case you’re wondering what I mean, here’s a
    hint:
    http://www.smh.com.au/world/diplomats-saw-putin-
    behind-a-poisoning-20101202-18ib1.html

  70. Vándorló says:

    @Bystander: Over the years I have strongly condemned the UK, EU, France, Germany, Italy, Turkey, Russia, Australia, Japan and of course Hungary. This is not an exclusive list.
    I’ll make a prediction and guarantee that you fulfil it at your first opportunity: In the lack of any evidence to show that Wikileaks releases have had any proven impact on security of the armed forces and individuals, as soon as one appears, no matter how small, you will make an enormous song and dance about it. No matter how small. You will not think proportionately of the balance of good and evil. Your country’s honour is to be defended and in your desperation you will continue to try to think good of the land of your birth.
    Tell me this, two questions:
    1. Who is doing the greater good for freedom and democracy, US or Assange?
    2. Who is doing the greater damage to freedom and democracy, US or Assange?

  71. Bystander says:

    If you re-phrase the question to something that’s
    not an absurdity, I’ll be glad to give you a
    serious answer.
    I will get back to my work after one more
    statement:
    I DO think that the Wikileaks revelations CAN do
    some good, and if Assange had been SELECTIVE about
    his leaks, then I actually would support what he
    does.
    However, the WAY he goes about it, just dumping
    250,000 documents that even HE can’t possibly know
    what’s IN them… that is irresponsible. And like
    I repeated before there are signs of laziness and
    super-ego in there that makes me think his lack of
    prudence/editing have less to do with noble
    pursuits and is more like lazyness.
    So, I am actually WELCOMING certain revelations
    (though the Neo-Nazis + people like your buddy
    Erdogan will all call this a “clever Zionist ploy”
    – as if Assange is a Zionist!). However, I still
    think that the WAY he is doing this via Massive
    Dumps is dangerous and could do a lot of harm to
    POSITIVE DIPLOMACY (yes, not ALL diplomacy is
    “evil”!) as well.
    It’s clear you hate the USA and I admit over and
    fucking over that the US is NOT perfect, and I’m
    not even sure a large nation can EXIST being
    PollyAnna-ish with the “total transparency” we all
    would love (in theory, if only someone can show me
    an example of a large state *surviving* TOTAL
    transparency).
    So, in my opinion More Transparency is GOOD, but
    there must be some responsibility.
    Your calling me “EVIL” because I am simply from
    the US regardless of my vote is dumbshit.

  72. justasking says:

    “Your calling me “EVIL” because I am simply from
    the US regardless of my vote is dumbshit”
    That’s not the impression that I’m getting from Vandor’s posts. But then again, it’s not the first time I’ve miss read his posts.
    I have more respect for people who have the balls to be critical of their country, religion and people in the open and not just ‘among friends’.
    To me that’s loyalty…loving them/standing up for them/laying it all on the line for them in-spite of their faults.

  73. Vándorló says:

    @Bystander: I’ll forgive your lack of memory, I understand most people can’t cope with too much information nor keep track of who said what, when and to whom.
    So just to help remind you: “people like your buddy Erdogan” Do you remember anything about my previous statements about Erdoğan? Good, then I accept your apology in full.
    And then, like an animal at a circus, you return to concentrically repeating yourself and your one line of reasoning.
    Tell me, despite no adverse effects though responding to criticism levelled at him (along the lines you bleet), given that he chose now to public further releases, but to work with established media organisations, do you not think he addressed your concerns?
    You seem to be stuck in a mental rut and can’t re-interpret data based on revised evidence.
    Can you, without repeating what you have already said (over and over), state what real and effective danger has arisen due to the leaks and their methods of release.
    YOu may want to read this first: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/28/us-embassy-cables-spying-un

  74. Bystander says:

    I will admit that spying at the U.N. is definitely
    “not-cool”… however I am fairly certain that ALL
    the large Powers DO this in some form (Russia,
    China, even UK, etc.).
    This article (and Van) seem to act naively as if
    to suggest that Embassies in every country are
    actually NOT parts of their Intelligence Services.
    Anyone who has even a little knowledge of the
    world knows that e.g. every US Embassy has a CIA
    Station Chief attached to it. And I would surmise
    that every country that’s not a little backwater
    completely knows this and has their own
    counterpart in *their* embassies. The article
    takes the tone that this is “shocking” and this is
    all part of the “game.”
    That said, I *do* think the US ‘overdid’ it re:
    the UN since we are host country and perhaps in
    that sense in this one particular instance, the
    Wikileak revelation might ‘help’ somehow (as long
    as other countries can’t continue THEIR nonsense
    either… it’s not fair if we just neuter the US,
    and Russia/China/Iran/etc. can go ahead with
    theirs).
    I do remember Van very grudgingly admitting he
    wasn’t a huge fan of Erdogan but I had to PULL it
    out of him like pulling teeth.
    As to what JA said “I have more respect for people
    who have the balls to be critical of their
    country, religion and people in the open and not
    just ‘among friends’.”… first of all, I think I
    am an *example* of someone who DOES this (read my
    posts).
    So, Van, what IS your country and let’s hear some
    criticism of it. I’ve heard NONE here!

  75. Vándorló says:

    @Bystander: Either your memory is letting you down again or you are being completely disingenuous.
    You never had to pull my teeth, you simply didn’t ask. Instead you insinuated that I was sympathetic and an avid supporter of Erdoğan. To which I took the trouble to clearly state your implicit question and then answer it. The answer I gave was that I am/was sympathetic to the main opposition leader Kılıçdaroğlu.
    Is your memory coming back yet?
    On the other question, that of my origins and nationality, I have answered that ad infinitum to a gaggle of sticky beaks and ne’er-do-wells. This will be the last time I repeat this, since a simple bit of psychological profiling would have provided you with enough of an answer anyway (hint, spelling and idioms): I am British, born of Irish parents in England. One of my (many) names is that of a great Irish nationalist. My father was an IRA supporter, I was not. Hence my disdain for any whiff of nationalism.
    And before you go off on one. Me and my father argued good and hard on the issues involved (history, politics, economics, language etc…) and respected each other’s point of view. I have yet to meet anyone with as sharp a mind.
    Among the many things he taught me was not to pussy foot around avoiding expressing and answering questions directly.
    You could have learned a thing or two about that.

  76. justasking says:

    “One of my (many) names is that of a great Irish nationalist”
    Maud…after Maud Gonne?

  77. Bystander says:

    Vandorlo,
    One bad habit you learned is being a DICK before
    it is necessary in a discussion. Perhaps one of
    your many problems in life is related to the fact
    that you throw the insults WELL before your
    opponent does. If you review this thread (and
    others) you will see that I began quite *civilly*
    with you, whereas you feel it necessary to say
    shit like:
    “You get weepy with one woman and child, but
    122,000 is just a number. Fuck the thousands,
    Bystander is crying for the photo opportunity.
    Soap Opera TV is your thing.”

    Hey just because I love my wife (and don’t really
    make a big deal about it here; ONCE in response to
    questioning by JA I opened up about it) and you
    perhaps HAVE no significant other doesn’t mean you
    need to take out all your angst on me and project
    whatever you think you need to re: “photo
    opportunities” and “Soap Opera TV” (I watch no
    such thing)…
    This says a lot more about YOU than me.
    So, maybe the way you were brought up to argue in
    dickish fashion taught *you* some bad social
    lessons, because you seem to be the one to get
    nasty first (I used to be a fan of yours so always
    came at you with respect)… I dont’ really
    believe you are capable of maintaining friendships
    with people you disagree with on minor points
    because you fling the kitchen sink at them.
    But hey, this is your problem. It’s one thing to
    go wild on an LHVJ or Law, but I think I was civil
    with you, and you seem to always revert to
    playground insults. Enjoy your misery.

  78. justbitching says:

    Who is impersonating Vandorlo???
    Is it Law?
    Is it Ricsi?
    Is it Lopott Holmi Visszajar (LHVJ)?
    Is it Bob Country Bumpkin?
    Is it Stan?
    Who is it????

  79. Vándorló says:

    @Bystander: Your memory is terrible. Really, it is terrible.
    Do you remember our first discussion of this back in August? Well during that we were being heated, but reasonably civil, but then you turned it around: “Vandorlo, you LIKE this guy? What an a-hole!” Now in the context you had previous (7 days earlier, referred to Assange as an a-hole, so one might assume that this object of your anaphoric reference. However, you left the intentional import of the reference deliberated ambiguous. Either that or you are truly ‘gifted’.
    And now you go on about me, with all your pathetic and predictable attempts to use the information I deliberately fed you in as effect way as possible to bolster your meagre, deflated sense of self-worth.
    Very poor form.
    Look, here is how you play. It’s called a “minimax strategy”. I assume you know what I kow and visa versa. I also assume that you have a complete view of the ‘board’ i.e. you know my possible options for my next move. Given that, you move (write, speak, debate…) such that you minimise any loss (e.g. to self-esteem) while maximise the potential gain (e.g. showing your opponent to be an arse). Get it?
    This way, you play like you don’t have all the information. You keep forgetting stuff and when I do give you information you make the simplest, most predictable move.
    More than that, you are simply unable to follow a complex discussion with more than one possible line of import.
    Try harder.

  80. Vándorló says:

    @Justasking: ‘”One of my (many) names is that of a great Irish nationalist”
    Maud…after Maud Gonne?’
    I can hear you sniggering from here, but that’s not far off when you are living in mainland UK.

  81. Bystander says:

    None of what you said made any sense other than that
    I called Assange an asshole. So sue me.
    Conversation’s getting boring. We’ve said what we
    will say. Hasta la vista!

  82. justasking says:

    @Vandor,
    “I can hear you sniggering from here”
    —————-
    “Is minic a bhris beal duine a shron.”
    Well at least you have a sense of humour. I found that post to be one of my funnier ones :)
    PS: I’m assuming ‘sniggering’ means snickering in English right?

  83. Bystander says:

    To clarify before I go… are you saying that
    because I wrote to you about Assange:
    “Vandorlo, you LIKE this guy? What an a-hole!”

    … you mean to say that you *honestly* thought
    that I was calling *YOU* an “a-hole”? While I
    admit it wasn’t my most grammatically clear
    sentence ever, I think you might want to ask 5
    random people to read that sentence and see who
    *they* think I was calling an a-hole.
    I find it odd and perhaps revealing that *this*
    was what set you oyou had envisioned me playing
    some convoluted “minimax strategy” (are you
    SHITTING me?!):
    “However, you left the intentional import of
    the reference deliberated ambiguous.”

    Oh, but I’m not clever enough to dabble in this
    kind of deliberate-ambiguity! Maybe you projected
    this onto *me*, because you actually DO this with
    people?! If so, wow, just WOW! I certainly don’t
    play games that complicated over a simple opinion
    like how I feel about Assange.
    If you *truly* believe that I wasn’t just saying
    “you LIKE this guy? He’s an a-hole!”… well,
    then I’m actually sincerely sorry about the
    confusion, I meant ASSANGE is an a-hole.
    But holy cow, THAT’s all it took to change
    Vandorlo from thoughtful intellectual to stark
    raving insult-man?!
    I hope you believe my sincerity in trying to clear
    this up. However once the insults started rolling
    it’s hard to take it back and I must say I don’t
    feel quite the same about you as I did before.
    I’m sure you don’t really care, so be that as it
    may.

  84. Vándorló says:

    @Bystander: “We’ve said what we will say.” Is that a nosism? If not, you are wrong.
    I take it, then, you don’t speak my idiolectic idioglossia? Simple English for you then.

  85. Bystander says:

    OK I guess I was “almost” done. Hopefully you typed
    your last comment before reading my previous one.
    Note: I made a sincere attempt to clarify in the
    post above yours. Feel free to read or ignore.
    Bye.

  86. Vándorló says:

    @Bystander: More than decent of you and unlimited apologies in return. I’ll cut out all the nonsense when I can.
    I will try to put a lid on my asperger’s (though I only score a measly 23 on the autistic scale, so don’t really have any excuse).
    @Justasking: It’s almost the same. Either that or my spelling is just getting worse.

  87. justasking says:

    @Bystander,
    “I think you might want to ask 5 random people to read that sentence and see who *they* think I was calling an a-hole”
    ——-
    “Vandorlo, you LIKE this guy? What an a-hole!”
    The way I read that sentence….you were calling Vandor an a**hole.
    4 more to go :) )
    @Vandor,
    “Either that or my spelling is just getting worse”
    It’s you…most definitely you. For once it is you and not me. Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m off to celebrate.

  88. Looking at what Bystander had written in the past, it would seem out of character for him to be calling Van an a*hole based on that one difference of opinion (okay 2, if you include Erdogan, or rather, the misreading of Erdogan). When I first saw it, I read it a couple of times to make sure, and finally decided that, given the context of the topic, the history, and probably haste in replying, By was more likely to be referring to Assange than Van.
    @JA – Still 4 more to go.

  89. justasking says:

    @George,
    “Still 4 more to go”
    Oh, how typical of you. I’d call you a brown noser…but what would be the point?

  90. @JA – You can call me whatever you want. While it definitely appeared to be written that way, I did not positively conclude that he referred to Van at the time. It would have appeared odd, and out of character for him to say that based on the content of one post.
    However, if it was you writing about Jews, Roma, Slovaks, Muslims, etc, etc,……………

  91. Vándorló says:

    @Justasking: On your Irish idiom/proverb, I’d commented on a similar one elsewhere a couple of days ago. Namely, “Ni théann cuileog san mbéal a bhíos dúnta.” (A fly will not go into a mouth that is closed.) This seems pretty close to 言わぬが花 (Iwanu ga hana). Literally translated as “Not speaking is the flower.” Meaning, “Some things are better left unsaid; Silence is golden.” Which, itself is pretty much the same in Hungarian: Hallgatni arany. …
    Or there is the Hungarian translation of the Latin philosopher Boethius’s “si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses” i.e.”Ha hallgattál volna, bölcs maradtál volna.” (If you had kept your silence, you would have remained a philosopher.) which people do seem to use a lot around here.
    An Estonian friend provided me with the equivalent: Rääkimine hõbe, vaikimine kuld.
    And I finally found the Turkish, too: “söz gümüş ise sükut altındır.”
    For imafinary, both of the Irish ones are better than the rest.

  92. justasking says:

    @ George,
    “However, if it was you writing”
    Oh, meow!
    Down kitty….now retract the claws :)

  93. @JA – George’s claws retracted thousands of years ago. Now, he just yanks your tail:)

  94. LHVJ says:

    @Elle
    You are probably correct about our hero Julian:
    Wikileaks founder Julian Assange has close links to the Economist, controlled by the Rothschild banking family
    http://birdflu666.wordpress.com/2010/12/01/wikileaks-founder-julian-assange-has-close-links-to-the-economist-controlled-by-the-rothschild-banking-family/
    It seems that Julian’s files have nothing embarrassing about Israeli leaders and diplomats.
    Julian does not bite the hand that feeds him :)

  95. Vándorló says:

    @LHVJ: So, let’s just be clear how your ‘mind’ works. If someone gives you an award for something, you are immediately connected to them, and this is a sign you kowtow to them?
    Also, the Economist hasn’t been sympathetic to Israeli policy for a while, so is that also part of the cover up?
    I don’t know if you know how companies work, but when you don’t have golden shares or a majority/controlling stake, you don’t control a company outright. 50% of the Economist is owned by individuals, some of whom are members of the Rothchilds. So they have a percentage of 50% i.e. they are a minority share holder.
    Do you not think that maybe your conjecture is founded on a fairly friable foundation?

  96. Vándorló says:

    @LHVJ: From memory, there were plenty of things that have embarrassed Israel in relation to Wikileaks. What is weird is that Iran’s so called allies in the Arab world, have all been lining up with Israel to have it taken out.
    And the US is expecting trouble, so have forewarned Israel of impending embarrassment: http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=196889

  97. Viking says:

    It seems that Julian’s files have nothing embarrassing about Israeli leaders and diplomats.
    Julian does not bite the hand that feeds him :)
    LHVJ at December 4, 2010 1:07 PM

    From that we can conclude that:
    * Amazon.com is not controlled by “the jews”, then Amazon shut down WikiLeaks’ servers Wednesday evening, after been pressured by the Israel-friendly (“jew-loving”) US Senator Joseph Lieberman:
    -
    http://lieberman.senate.gov/index.cfm/news-events/news/2010/12/amazon-severs-ties-with-wikileaks
    -
    “He was one of the Senate’s strongest advocates for continued prosecution of the war in Iraq. He is also an outspoken supporter of the U.S.-Israel relationship. On domestic issues, he strongly supports free trade economics”
    (from wiki)
    .
    * Same thing with PayPal payment services (owned by Ebay), which yesterday shut down WikiLeaks’ accounts, claiming that they have not been pressured to do so. Must mean another non-Jewish business in the world, Right?
    -
    And I who thought the Jews Rule The World, after reading our Little Hussar’s normal “Blame The Jews” for everything including the weather
    Funny thing is that the normal “jew-loving” US Senator Joseph Lieberman has not got our Little Hussar’s message
    JL does not read politics-hu?
    Shocking, when soo many Real Revelations are made here

  98. Viking Reeks says:

    It’s funny to see how many non-jews are falling over each other trying protect jews. Why?

  99. wolfi says:

    @reeking idiote:
    You don’t know nothin’ – get this TRUTH from your jobo friend Law:
    “Law at October 26
    Read that you Jewish Cunt Viking!!”
    Almost your style …

  100. olga says:

    @ Reeks
    Re: “It’s funny to see how many non-jews are falling over each other trying protect jews. Why?”
    Because:
    “You’ve got to be taught
    To hate and fear,
    You’ve got to be taught
    From year to year,
    It’s got to be drummed
    In your dear little ear
    You’ve got to be carefully taught.
    You’ve got to be taught to be afraid
    Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
    And people whose skin is a diff’rent shade,
    You’ve got to be carefully taught.
    You’ve got to be taught before it’s too late,
    Before you are six or seven or eight,
    To hate all the people your relatives hate,
    You’ve got to be carefully taught!”
    (South Pacific)
    Unlike you, some of us were simply not taught to hate people. Blame my parents.

  101. Viking says:

    It’s funny to see how many non-jews are falling over each other trying protect jews. Why?
    Viking Reeks at December 5, 2010 6:35 PM

    Good question why “jew-loving” US Senator Joseph Lieberman and our Little “jew-hating” Little Hussar is agreeing on that WikiLeaks is bad for ‘Free Speech’ and the US and should be stopped
    ‘elle’ and Sarah Palin on the same stage screaming “Kill Assange, Kill Assange”
    Politics get you strange bedfellows obviously

  102. Viking Reeks says:

    I don’t really care much for WikiLeaks, no time to read the whole thing. For what I’ve read so far, I don’t think it’s such a big deal. We already know that US politicians and “intelligence” people are not very bright. What else is new?
    What troubles me is the overwhelming support for Israel and Jews. No matter what they do, the slightest criticism of their actions will bring up an army of defenders, yelling “racism” and “anti-semitism” and the usual. If you post a message on a US blog or news portal, not supporting the murder of civilians by the IDF, you’re going to get it. People declaring themselves as Christians, conservatives or liberals, all agree on that Israel cannot do wrong, and you’re a communist muslim terrorist anti-semite whatever. Looks like Jews are special, they are shielded from not only the consequences of their wrongdoings, but also from fair public opinion.
    What would you say if I protested against any public display of menorahs? You would be up in arms, calling me the usual names.
    What if a rabbi protests against the public display of Christmas trees? The trees will be quietly removed. And this happens in a country where 90% of the people celebrate Christmas. Even atheists. I’m not religious, but I like Christmas trees and the Christmas spirit. I don’t praise the baby Jesus, I buy gifts, and bring the family together for a peaceful (if not very healthy) dinner feast.
    Anyway, why is one symbol offensive and the other is not?

  103. Viking says:

    If you post a message on a US blog or news portal, not supporting the murder of civilians by the IDF, you’re going to get it. People declaring themselves as Christians, conservatives or liberals, all agree on that Israel cannot do wrong, and you’re a communist muslim terrorist anti-semite whatever
    Viking Reeks at December 6, 2010 1:45 AM

    1st) Either consult with our Little Hussar which US web-sites to go to where you will not be harassed to call Jews bad names. He has plenty links to those, which he and sometimes ‘elle’ link to
    .
    2nd) Why would we here on politics-hu be interested in the US way of discussions?
    You are clearly referring to a US mind-set, mostly not supported by Europeans and Hungary is in Europe last time I checked
    .
    3rd) The main *given* reason for “US Christian Conservatives” (or whatever you want to call those people) to support Israel, is that Israel is the place of Jesus and the Holy Land. Someday there will be the 2nd Coming and for some strange reason it will be on the same place, so it is better the Jews take care of the area and not the Muslims
    .
    4th) On this web-site you will see several posters defending the Right to be a Jew (or whatever you want to be), but attacking the Jewish State of Israel for being a racist, bigot country with a system against its minorities that clearly borders to apartheid
    That pro-Israeli parties in Europe, like UKIP, SD (Sweden), call you a Muslim terrorist for doing that – ask them

  104. Viking Stinks says:

    Reading comprehension is not your forte, Viki.
    Obviously you didn’t understand any part of the previous post. You could have simply ignored the message, it was way over your head, but you chose to show off your ignorance and post a dumb response as usual.

  105. Our Little Viki says:

    “our Little Hussar”
    This didn’t have any entertainment value the first time you posted it. If that’s your best effort, maybe you should quit posting altogether.

  106. Benny says:

    “Holy Land”
    People still believe in this holy crap?
    Sad.

  107. Viking says:

    Reading comprehension is not your forte, Viki.
    Viking Stinks at December 6, 2010 10:45 PM

    You remind me about this story about a Norwegian driving from Oslo to Göteborg (in Sweden).
    Suddenly on the radio he could hear a special report:
    “Some idiot is driving on the wrong side of the motorway to Göteborg!”
    He looked at his wife and said:
    “One? There are hundreds of them!”

  108. Viking says:

    It seems that Julian’s files have nothing embarrassing about Israeli leaders and diplomats.
    Julian does not bite the hand that feeds him :)
    LHVJ at December 4, 2010 1:07 PM

    But Julian Assange/WikiLeaks has given exclusive right to different journalists to distribute wikileaks documents in different part of the world
    In Sweden pro-Zionist groups have attacked the WikiLeaks’ rep Johannes Wahlström, then Johannes father is “the wellknown anti-semite Israel Shamir”, who in his turn is WikiLeaks’ rep in Russia
    To read what Israel Shamir writes on Our Little Hussar and ‘elle’ and ‘ricsi’ biggest problem, the upcoming war against Iran, Israel Shamir writes this:
    -
    http://www.israelshamir.net/English/Fear_Not.htm
    -
    “Fear of war is not the best adviser. If they want war, give them a war. At home!
    Fear Not
    By Israel Shamir”
    “In the name of profanation the Judeo-Americans go to fight the pious puritans of Persia and the warrior monks of Lebanon, for their faith-based society is impervious to the rot. The Masters could overlook Iranian nuclear reactors, like they overlooked the Pakistani bomb. It is Iranians’ belief in God they can’t tolerate”
    .
    A man clearly in the liking of our resident raving lunatics *and* he is WikiLeaks’ official spokesperson in Russia
    Clearly WikiLeaks must be an Israeli under-cover operation…
    So sad that Israel Shamir, like US Senator Joseph Biderman, VISA, MasterCard, the Swiss Banks and Paypal just do not just get it

  109. Things that make you say Hmmmm says:

    Israel, not Hamas, is responsible for the
    “humanitarian catastrophe” in Gaza. Goldstone was
    right when he charged that Israel was guilty of war
    crimes against civilians.

  110. LHVJ says:

    @Things that make you say Hmmmm
    You are so misinformed for someone who spent time on this list
    You should know that Israel murdered 1,400 Palestinians, including hundreds of women and children in self-defense. Everything they do is self-defense because they are always the victims, never the perpetrators.
    This is the least you should have learned form the Zionazis and their goy servants this list.

  111. olga says:

    @ Reeks
    Re: “What would you say if I protested against any public display of menorahs? You would be up in arms, calling me the usual names.
    What if a rabbi protests against the public display of Christmas trees? The trees will be quietly removed.”
    If you protested against the public display of the menorah I would say you were the flip side of the racist intolerant Rabbi protesting against the Christmas tree ; where exactly was the Christmas tree removed? Can you reference it?
    There is no shortage of fanatics in every religion it’s just that people like you focus on Jews and Israel. Try focusing on the convicted priests within the Catholic Church – that would be equally unfair to the millions of the “real Christian Catholics” all over the world – as far as I can see you and your ilk are everything that Christ was against and you dare think of yourselves as “Christians” – unreal.
    As a new hobby, you could read the Israeli papers on line; I am sure you could come up with a few serial killers , rapists and child molesters being tried in the Israeli courts , then you could post that “all Jews” are guilty of those crimes.
    As long as you keep concentrating on Israel’s present foreign policy, focus on various heinous crimes within its borders, drag in the Holocaust Denial, take a few moments to drag in “Roma crimes” , no one will even notice the internal problems facing Hungary. Oh, happy days

  112. Ricsi says:

    Dumb Olga@ Dallas airport for one,after local arseholes complained! (clue-not muslims).Another free lesson for you :)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdARNM7_MaM

  113. LHVJ says:

    Viking Reeks: “It’s funny to see how many non-jews are falling over each other trying protect jews. Why?”
    You are either very new or very funny. These so called “non-jews are falling over each other trying protect jews” are jews.
    Have you ever heard of crypto jews?
    Here they pose as catholics :)

  114. Viking says:

    Have you ever heard of crypto jews?
    Here they pose as catholics :)
    LHVJ at December 11, 2010 5:16 PM

    Have you ever heard of crypto communists?
    Here they pose as anti-communists :)

  115. olga says:

    @ Brilliant Ricsi
    You actually thought I would watch a David Duke Video? Yeah, right after I listen to the crazy Rabbi who thinks Christians should serve Jews.
    For someone calling me dumb…
    Maybe you could round up some more lunatics for “my education into insanity” so I can spend my weekend listening to them just like you and your friends and then I could no longer be considered “anti-Hungarian”
    BTW, I just read something about a Baptist Minister in the USA whose followers are protesting at Elisabeth Edward’s funeral but even when they are not involved with protesting, they have rather strange beliefs:
    “The fundamentalist congregation hews to an extreme ideology that condemns homosexuality and believes that America’s national misfortunes are a direct result of God’s wrath for failing to condemn gays, Catholics, Jews, and others”
    Take out Catholics and you could be right there worshiping with them

  116. justasking says:

    @Olga,
    “where exactly was the Christmas tree removed? Can you reference it? ”
    Actually, lots of places ‘Christmas trees are either removed or called ‘ Holiday trees’ so as not to ‘offend’ people of other religions.
    Believe what you want, but where I live, City Hall has been made and decorated as neutral during this/every ‘Holiday Season’. But they do seem to find it okay to light the Menorah in City-Hall, hmmm.
    I wonder what’s going to happen in Calgary; they have a newly elected Muslim Mayor and all…I wonder if he will cancel that out, the lighting of the Menorah? I hope so…it’s only fair.
    I will say this. I get that people do not believe in my God, my religion etc and I agree that shoving it down peoples throats is not right. But, that should apply to ALL religions and not just some. Christianity seems to be an easy and acceptable target…in my humble opinion of course.
    @ Ricsi,
    Addressing Olga as @Dumb Olga is beneath you.

  117. Sandy Claws says:

    Christmas trees have little to do with religion.
    They have become a symbol of the holiday spirit, you buy gifts, have a family dinner, and act like civilized people. In WWI even enemies stopped shooting at each other on Christmas Day, came out of the trenches, and had a peaceful moment.
    We all need at least one day a year like that.
    Jews could just accept that, be happy for the extra Christmas spending and stop complaining and pushing their menorah all over the place.
    More than 90% of Americans celebrate Christmas, even atheists, like myself. Have some respect for the sensitivities of the majority for once.
    For olga: here’s one rabbi grinch who stole Christmas
    http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=2715008&tqkw
    Once you figure out how to use Google, you’ll find lots more. Now go to your local synagogue, and put up a Christmas tree. Good luck.

  118. Viking says:

    For olga: here’s one rabbi grinch who stole Christmas
    Sandy Claws at December 12, 2010 1:50 AM

    It is here were the story goes wrong, then the linked story is not about a Rabbi demanding the *removal* of the Christmas Tree, but an additional “celebration of Hanukah”
    “In 1989, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that Christmas trees and menorahs were sufficiently secular that they could be displayed in a government building without constituting an endorsement of a particular religion”
    These are US rules and can be interpreted as *both* should be displayed
    Just displaying one, could then be interpreted as being a breach of the Law
    .
    The airport’s response to the demand was:
    “Port officials apparently found it easier to remove the Christmas trees — about a dozen”
    That is a bit like if Rosa Parks’ demand to sit anywhere in the bus, where she damned liked it, would have been answered with a total cancellation of all bus-services in Montgomery, Alabama
    -
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Parks
    -
    But of course ‘ricsi’s’ suck-puppets hate Rosa Parks also, because in the end of the day it is all about White Christian Supremacy, even if the idiots would never make it through the Perly Gates

  119. White Power says:

    “White Christian Supremacy”
    What’s wrong with that? Do we have to deny our historic achievements only to please the less gifted? Honestly, where would this world be without Greeks, Romans, Persians and Arabs?
    Stone age?

  120. “White Christian Supremacy” Do we have to deny our historic achievements only to please the less gifted? Honestly, where would this world be without Greeks, Romans, Persians and Arabs?
    White Power at December 12, 2010 11:37 AM
    @’Less gifted’ White Power – last I checked, the Greeks, Romans, Persians & Arabs weren’t what you’d consider ‘Christian’.

  121. Ricsi says:

    Just asking@ I am confused,what did I say that was wrong? Is she dumb or highly intelligent? Dumb is the only answer-she chooses not to open her eyes so she is what the yanks call a ‘sheeple’,like a poor,dumb easily led animal.
    Sorry you do not like this but such is the truth.

  122. justasking says:

    @Viking,
    “It is here were the story goes wrong, then the linked story is not about a Rabbi demanding the *removal* of the Christmas Tree, but an additional “celebration of Hanukah”
    _____
    Uh..no. You obviously missed this part:

  123. Viking says:

    Uh..no. You obviously missed this part
    justasking at December 12, 2010 6:38 PM

    No I did not miss it and it just shows that the Port Authority did not want to find any other variant than to cut down the Christmas Trees
    If they could pay the workers for that, they could have paid the same workers putting up what ever the Rabbi wanted, then the Rabbi obviously had the Law on his side
    The Political responsible for the Port Authority should be charged with neglect of duty, then they obviously missed following the Law and ended up spending the tax payers money without enough effect
    Port Authorities have to obey the law also
    Anyway this happened in 2006 and I assume they have some Christmas decorations in the years that followed?

  124. Sandy Claws says:

    ” they could have paid the same workers putting up what ever the Rabbi wanted”
    Right. And next time the same rabbi will sue them for working on the sabbath, or not selling enough kosher food, or not obeying every stupid rule in their holy book. If someone finds Christmas trees offensive, they should explain why. I’d like to hear one good reason for that.
    Accommodating the sensitivities of every minority would be impossible. PC has gone too far already.
    It’s quite unfortunate that frivolous lawsuits can be so costly, only jews can afford them. It would have been interesting to see the case go on trial. You are not allowed to celebrate a national holiday in your own country? What’s next?

  125. olga says:

    @ Sandy Claws and Justasking
    Sandy Claws – What????
    I read the article you posted and Ricsi cannot be accused of “twisting the truth” because there was a total absence of truth. So Ricsi lied and I am shocked because it’s like finding out there was no Santa so I hope you are happy that you ruined my faith and trust in him.
    @ Justasking – I totally agree with you about Christmas Trees and find it ridculous and insulting to call them “Holiday Trees”
    I can’t remember what happened at Toronto City Hall when the “Holiday Tree” issue was brought up a few years ago, but the most vocal critics of this ridiculous name change were Muslim and Jewish, pointing out that negating an honoured Christian tradition serves no purpose other than encouraging a backlash against all non-Christians.
    Someone sent me an email titled “Tragic News from the North” but I can’t post a picture, but I found it on an internet website; take a look.
    http://www.delawareliberal.net/2008/12/23/tragic-news-from-the-north/

  126. justasking says:

    @Olga,
    “Tragic News from the North” but I can’t post a picture, but I found it on an Internet website; take a look.”
    Now that was funny. I needed that belly laugh after the Christmas shopping I did today. Thanks.

  127. Viking says:

    f someone finds Christmas trees offensive, they should explain why. I’d like to hear one good reason for that
    Sandy Claws at December 12, 2010 10:42 PM

    No one, including your Rabbi, complained about the Christmas Tree, so stop muddling the waters
    It is up to you to show that the Rabbi actually attacked the Christmas Tree, which you still have not done
    What that Rabbi wanted, was the implementation of US rules, because this was in the US and not Hungary
    US Supreme Court already in 1989 ruled that Christmas Trees and menorahs were were sufficiently secular that they could be displayed in a government building without constituting an endorsement of a particular religion
    Demanding that the menorah should then be displayed beside a Christmas Tree was then, from a *legal* point of view, not a religious thing
    The Port Authority fucked up and was corrected
    Obviously they have fixed the problem all Christmases since 2006, which is the Christmas your article was about
    It is terrible when different Authorities are reminded to implement the laws and rules that they should obey?

  128. olga says:

    @ Viking
    What is terrible that a Christmas tree, a symbol of “Peace on Earth” is being used as a vehicle to spread religious intolerance.
    These people must be busy with google searches for “Rabbi and Christmas Tree” to come up with all this
    I posted this statement from a Baptist Minister yesterday whose Church was picketing Elizabeth Edwards’ funeral and believe “that America’s national misfortunes are a direct result of God’s
    wrath for failing to condemn gays, Catholics, Jews, and others”
    No outrage against a crazy Baptist Minister but if he were a Rabbi, there would be some interest.
    Maybe Ricsi could substitute “Baptist Minister” to “Rabbi” and substitute “Hungarian” for “American” and all his friends can bask in the glory of hate and intolerance standing around their Christmas tree and completely ignore what Christmas is really all about.

  129. Viking says:

    “America’s national misfortunes are a direct result of God’s wrath for failing to condemn gays, Catholics, Jews, and others”
    olga at December 13, 2010 3:26 PM

    Yes, based in Topeka, Kan., Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) is an unaffiliated church led by the Rev. Fred Phelps, and attended mostly by some 70 members of the extended Phelps family
    Makes you wonder if they have nice family dinners?
    .
    Other things these people are known for is picketing the funerals of US Soldiers fallen in the Middle-East, gay people killed in typical hate crimes and people died in AIDS
    To the parents of the latter they normally send a celebration-card that the world has lost a sinner
    Just to cheer up the Parents
    .
    Together with the Lords Resistance Army (LRA) and paedophile priests, these guys gives Christians a Good Name
    A bit similar to how Al-Qaeda gives Muslims a Good Name

  130. justasking says:

    @Viking,
    “What that Rabbi wanted, was the implementation of US rules”
    No he didn’t…he wanted representation of the Jewish faith along side the Christmas Tree and threatened legal action if he didn’t get his way.
    The Airport was in compliance with this US ruling. The problem occurred when all of this blew up in this Rabbi’s face and they pulled the tress down. He had to do some back peddling so as not to look like the caddy dumb*ss that he is. I didn’t work if you ask me.
    Hey, is it me or does this Rabbi sound allot like American in Pest; you know…petty and vindictive? I bet they’re one and the same…

  131. Viking says:

    he wanted representation of the Jewish faith along side the Christmas Tree and threatened legal action if he didn’t get his way
    justasking at December 13, 2010 4:56 PM

    And obviously the Rabbi was correct, or otherwise the Dallas Native Indians would have requested a Totem-pole for next Christmas and the Port Authority would have taken down the Christmas Trees *and* the menorahs…
    And the year after the Swedish Congregation in Dallas, being a very visible minority would have requested a full Sized “Gävle Goat” and with that on place, they would had to move the airport, then no planes could land/take off
    -
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%A4vle_goat
    -
    So my bet is that the Rabbi had legal support for his claims and the Port Authority just obstructed, to shift the blame

  132. justasking says:

    @Viking,
    “Dallas Native Indians would have requested a Totem-pole for next Christmas and the Port Authority would have taken down the Christmas Trees *and* the menorahs…
    And the year after the Swedish Congregation in Dallas, being a very visible minority would have requested a full Sized “Gävle Goat”
    ——
    You’re right, everybody from all walks of life seemed to be have been satisfied with a neutral tree representing Peace on Earth for the last 25 years, until one whinny Rabbi just had to take it one step further. Yeah, no personal agenda there…
    What did the Rabbi say he wanted…the Menorah to add light to the season? What for? Didn’t the tree have lights on it?

  133. Bystander says:

    @White Power (aka RICSI) who wrote:
    “White Christian Supremacy”…What’s wrong with
    that? Do we have to deny our historic achievements
    only to please the less gifted? Honestly, where
    would this world be without Greeks, Romans,
    Persians and Arabs? Stone age?”

    Thanks for just coming out and stating your real
    agenda in the simplest, quickest way, once and for
    all for us here at POLITICS.HU.
    WHITE POWER. THAT IS ALL.
    Really, why bother with anything more? The rest
    is just details, isn’t it, Ricsi? ;)
    Re: the Christmas tree stories, etc. I can only
    speak for America, but you all should know that
    2006 was like the “high water mark” for the fake-
    shock-They-Want-To-Kill-Christmas panic here in my
    country re: Menorahs etc. There were very few
    ‘real’ incidents (and I would advise the odd
    misguided rabbi from 2006 to ‘just chill out’).
    I believe that since 2006 with all the sham-
    outrage vented on Fox News and the like
    http://www.buydirectworld.com/detail/p_1595230165/
    Best-deal-The-War-on-Christmas–How-the-Liberal-
    Plot-to-Ban-the-Sacred-Christian-Holiday-Is-Worse-
    Than-You-Thought-onsale.html
    that any idiots making a big deal about removing a
    Christmas tree from public property learned
    quickly how stupid they were and how
    counterproductive such a stupid idea IS.
    If anyone thinks there is a lot of this STILL
    going on in 2010/11, I would challenge you all to
    put up the links, or else shut up.

  134. olga says:

    @ JA
    Re: “until one whinny Rabbi just had to take it one step further. Yeah, no personal agenda there…”
    Of course the Rabbi had a personal agenda – he wanted to to get “equal billing” and under the law he had that right and yes, it did backfire since the intent was not to remove the Christmas tree.
    If the Airport Authority explained to the Rabbi there was no enough lead time to get a proper Menorah that year but would do so the following year and the Rabbi still wanted to sue, that would be a totally different story – but unless that was the case, I don’t see the big deal.
    I see a big deal about the Baptist Minister’s evil protests at loved ones’ funerals and rejoicing at their deaths. (Of course I did hear from reliable sources his paternal grand-father was Jewish and his maternal grand-mother was Roma, so what can you expect?)

  135. justasking says:

    @Olga,
    “If the Airport Authority explained to the Rabbi there was no enough lead time to get a proper Menorah that year but would do so the following year and the Rabbi still wanted to sue, that would be a totally different story ”
    Why do they have to explain anything? The Airport Authority violated nothing. Besides, the guy requested an 8 foot Menorah…for Christ Sake!
    The US Supreme Court ruled in 1989 and I quote…”Christmas trees and menorahs were sufficiently secular that they could be displayed in a government building without constituting an endorsement of a particular religion”
    Where do they say that every public building must present both sides equally? Nowhere.
    I can just imagine how this all unfolded. The Rabbi, getting off a plane from God knows where, sees a Christmas tree and gets pissed off.
    With his knickers in a knot, demands that the Airport Authority erect an 8 foot Menorah because he felt discriminated against and if they did not comply by such and such time he was going to sue their ass. I’m can bet you dollars to donuts anti-Semitism was thrown into the conversation a couple of times by him as well.
    Why else would he just ‘happen’ to have a lawyer ready to proceed with legal actions?
    The Airport Authority, in violation of nothing, cuts off their nose to spite their face, yanks down the trees and the story gets leaked to the local TV station.
    And several years later it makes it’s way to Politics.hu to be debated :)

  136. Viking says:

    Where do they say that every public building must present both sides equally? Nowhere
    justasking at December 14, 2010 2:09 AM

    True, but you do not need to have a very big degree in US law to expect that you could find a court that would be sympathetic to the demand to have both on displayed, then the Supreme Court 15 years earlier ruled that both symbols were equal non-religious
    Of course that specific Rabbi had his own agenda (of which can be said a lot), but the Port Authority obviously behaved like a spoilt child and decided to make a political manifestation of the whole thing, to push their point (and maybe the political climate in the US in 2006 guided the Port Authority, as Bystander points out)
    .
    That the demand was an 8-foot menorah must be related to how big the Christmas Trees were
    In the US the Christmas Trees tend to be a bit big, so it is no reason to believe that any of the chopped down trees were less than 8-foot
    And the thing is – what is on display on the Dallas Airport today?
    .
    If the Montgomery Public Bus Company had cancelled all bus service in response to Rosa Parks demand to sit where she wanted in the bus, would that have made Rosa Parks’ demand *less* valid?
    .
    Just because the IDF stormed and killed several Freedom Flotilla activists earlier this year, did that make the Freedom Flotilla’s aim less honourable?
    .
    We should not judge any action on the reaction it creates
    We should merit the action in itself

  137. olga says:

    @ Viking and JA
    Sounds like there were 14 Christmas trees and they were all put back, the Rabbi didn’t sue and everyone lived happily after – btw, he never asked for the tree(s) to be taken down
    “The group, which had never asked for the trees to be removed, was accused by some of trying to steal Christmas. It quickly dropped its talk of a lawsuit and joined those asking the airport to bring back the trees. That, the airport said, freed it to put them back up.
    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D04E6DD1531F930A25751C1A9609C8B63
    Talking about lawsuits, I wonder how Oszkar Molnar’s libel suit is coming along? Poor man’s reputation is at stake, so I hope his name has been cleared by now after he proved his allegations against those pregnant women. I worry about his good name.

  138. wolfi says:

    @Olga:
    Thanks for this link – it is typical for the likes of “sandy claws” to come up with a crazy story like that and not following it through …
    And the jobo idiots of course go foaming at the mouth when they read that crap …
    A typical example of what Law calls “Truth” …

  139. olga says:

    @ Wolfi
    In order to come up with a 2006 article, these people must put “Rabbi and Christmas Tree” on a google search.
    Everyone on our street has decorated their house with outdoor lights and the neighbourhood looks beautiful once it gets dark (unfortunately it’s dark by 5 p.m.) Most people including us, place the Christmas trees near windows so everyone driving by can see them all lit up and you can feel the Christmas spirit everywhere you go.
    It so happens that none of our neighbors are Jewish but if people put an 8 foot Menorah on their lawn, I can assure you it would not be a topic of conversation.

  140. Pope Benny says:

    wolfi was spotted the other day at the local church demanding that the “Nativity Scene” be replaced. He wants a “negativity scene” instead. Vona on a crucifix would do, he said. wolfi is such an intolerant hatemonger.
    Anyone up to a trip to Tel Aviv Airport? We could check out how many Christmas trees are there, how big they are, and then ask the management politely to put a few 50 foot Christmas trees in central locations, or else!
    Imagine the reaction. Lynch mob, arrest, torture, terrorist treatment, the works.

  141. olga says:

    @ Benny
    Here you go – I put “Tel Aviv and Christmas Tree” on a google search and look what happened
    You must feel like a total jerk.
    http://travel.mapsofworld.com/israel/tel-aviv-tours/christmas-in-tel-aviv.html

  142. Pope Benny says:

    olga, my child. The Lord didn’t bless you with much brainpower. You posted a link to a travel site, they want you to go to Tel Aviv and spend your filthy money there, that’s all.
    If you find a credible report on the number of menorahs and Christmas tree on the premises of the airport, please share it with us.

  143. olga says:

    Dearest Benny
    I wish the Lord blessed me with as much patience as He gave Viking.
    The story was about Tel Aviv celebrating Christmas
    so here you go , article from the Jerusalem Post- my last google search; before you apoligise (I peg you for the kind of person who will) it’s about Chritmas Trees and Christmas celebrations in Israel so do not look for the word “Airport” or “Tel Aviv” -
    http://www.jpost.com/GreenIsrael/PEOPLEANDTHEENVIRONMENT/Article.aspx?id=198763
    BTW, my girlsfriend’s husband was working as an engineer in Saudi for a 12 year period and she told me her friends brought in 1/3rd of an artificial Christmas tree in their suitcases every time they visited Canada and the USA until they had a full tree. If they were searched, they said the 1/3rd of a tree was a “plant”
    I am not sure if Christmas trees are against the law or if the employees simply don’t want to draw attention to their trees but I think you should concentrate on the Arab countries because there is really not much to bitch about Christmas celebrations in Israel. Maybe you could concentrate on an Isreali murderer, child molestor, wife beater – I am sure there are plenty of examples if you look hard enough.
    Our Catholic neighbour and her Protestan husband ( I know how important these details are) just came back from a trip that covered Israel and Egypt and a lot of Christians from Canada visit Israel – what a loss to the country that you won’t be one of them

  144. wolfi says:

    @olga:
    We have just bought a small (2 feet high) plastic tree which we’ll give away as a present to someone in the family (decorated with money for them to buy something they need …), but I helped my wife decorate several trees in our garden with those hundreds of little lights – like all our neighbours – even though we’re both Atheists.

  145. Bystander says:

    How come the Sandy Claws and Ricsis here DON’T
    ever criticize Saudi Arabia?
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6749065/ns/world_news/
    “Saudi Arabia has stated publicly that its policy
    is to protect the right of non-Muslims to worship
    privately. However, Defense Minister Prince Sulta
    also stressed that the kingdom would never allow
    churches to be built.
    Earlier this year, Sheik Ibrahim al-Ghaith, chief
    of the powerful religious police, said Saudi
    Arabia would never allow public displays of non-
    Muslim faith.
    The State Department said in 1993 that “non-
    Muslim worshippers risked arrest, lashing and
    deportation for engaging in overt religious
    activity that attracts official attention.”


    Medical workers say some Saudi patients refuse to
    take some medications because they mistake the
    cross-like indentation in tablets for religious
    crosses.
    … Small statues of Buddha are confiscated at
    airports, and Buddha pictures on a popular CD have
    been colored over.

    The State Department report said non-Muslim clergy
    were not allowed to enter the country to conduct
    religious services, although some come “under
    other auspices.”
    …A store owner was detained for promoting
    witchcraft because he carried such Halloween
    decorations as scary masks and witches’ hats.
    Christmas cards are sold under the counter and
    only in very few stores… One florist told
    customers that several dozen fresh trees from
    Holland were intercepted at the airport, hacked to
    pieces and then sent back to Holland.”

  146. Law says:

    Wolfi your nothing but a piece of shit!

  147. wolfi says:

    @Law:
    Coming from the mouth of the biggest loonie here I take that as a compliment …
    This is the type of “argument” that I really like – because it shows that you have nothing worthwhile to say and it shows everybody what kind of animal (I can’t write “person” here) you are …
    You made my day!

  148. Viking says:

    Wolfi your nothing but a piece of shit!
    Law at December 14, 2010 6:03 PM

    No, no
    That type of talking is not allowed during Prime Time in Hungary (check the time in your computer (6:03 PM)
    -
    http://www.politics.hu/20101214/tv-crime-reporting-restricted
    -
    Prime Time morning and evening we should all concentrate on being *positive*
    And thinking warm things on Orban and Vona in a hot situation

  149. Pope Benny says:

    wolfi says: “You made my day!”
    The last one I hope.
    Jud Süß (aka. by-boy) says: “How come the Sandy Claws and Ricsis here DON’T ever criticize Saudi Arabia?”
    Simple. I don’t like the Saudis too much, but at least they are not all over the place, trying to look bigger than they really are. I have no problems with their policy: no churches there. We should do the same: no minarets or synagogues or any other public display of affection for foreign gods here. We have already established that Christmas and the trees that go with it are not religious symbols, I’m as atheist as the next guy, I still like and celebrate Christmas. How’s that?
    olga says: “do not look for the word “Airport” or Tel Aviv”.
    No cigar.
    Your assignment was to bring us evidence on Christmas trees at the Tel Aviv airport. Try again. Hint: people trying to give away trees means nothing more, than people trying to give away trees. Any takers? Public institutions showing their religious tolerance and the urge to please minorities? No?

  150. wolfi says:

    @Viking:
    “Warm” thinking is also not allowed – you surely know that “melleg” has the same meaning as “warm” in German …
    So calling Vona and Orban “warme Brüder” might get you into jail – or if the jobos here have their way: directly to the next lamppost …
    Christmas time here on this site promises to be really interesting – but this is just a kind ov “Virtual Life” – in reality most Hungarians are really nice people.
    When I close my notebook I instantly forget all those loonie racist homophobic idiot mü-Magyars and have fun with my friends and neighbours …

  151. Ricsi says:

    Bystander jew boy@ I hate the Saudis,second only to Israhell,they are probably the most arrogant,corrupt regime on earth,but guess what? They have oil and the US loves them for it!
    As for what they do in there country-Its there country,get it? let them ban trees,alcohol etc…
    but the US is not Israhell and it is a disgrace to see them and many EU countries cowtoe to a parasite non-nation like Israel. Still remember Karma? Those fires are only the beginning…….:) Good times are coming soon…

  152. wolfi says:

    @ricsi:
    How was your trip ?
    http://www.fpp.co.uk/wolfslair/
    “Book now for David Irving’s week-long September 2010 guided tour of Hitler’s Headquarters and other historic sites.”

  153. olga says:

    @ Benny
    You didn’t make any sense – the point of the Christmas tree-Menorah fiasco at the US Airport in 2006 had to do with an American legal decision. There is no evidence that Israel or Hungary for that matter has similar laws but I know that’s just minor details considering your agenda.
    Re: “Anyone up to a trip to Tel Aviv Airport? We could check out how many Christmas trees are there, how big they are, and then ask the management politely to put a few 50 foot Christmas trees in central locations, or else! ”
    Rather dramatic example – there were 14 Christmas trees on display at the Airport and the request was for one 8ft Menorah but I do appreciate your sense of drama and making a big f…ing deal out of nothing while comparing legislation in one country to non-existing legislation in another.
    Nice to know you are an atheist, less nauseating for someone like you to be racist then someone claiming to be “a Christian” and making a mockery of everything that Christ stood for and be consumed with hate for the Jewish people. I assume you got the memo that Christ was not Jewish, but it was quite a shock to me and all the main stream church leaders still pretend the memo got lost.
    When I was curious to see if Christmas was celebrated in Israel or not, I came across a video. Note (1) the size of the tree (2) Christians Muslims and Jews donated the bottles
    Have a nice Christmas
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_mJDOocHLQ

  154. Pope Benny says:

    olga gets an F on her Christmas tree report.

  155. LHVJ says:

    @Ricsi
    It seems like our wikileaks hero published something compromising and nasty about everyone except Israel. We know that the only reason our wikileaks hero did not publish anything compromising or nasty about Israel because there is nothing to publish. At least that is what our wikileaks hero would have us believe.
    I am still not sure what his sponsors; the Rothschild bankers are trying to do but creating a chaos could serve them and Israel well. Maybe a profitable war or two to pay for the funding extended to our wikileaks hero.
    The authenticity of published material seems to be OK but as with everything else, I am not satisfied with only part of the truth. A half-truth is a lie and when we only get the dirt on everyone but Israel, it has to be for some purpose. Only time will tell.

  156. Viking says:

    It seems like our wikileaks hero published something compromising and nasty about everyone except Israel. We know that the only reason our wikileaks hero did not publish anything compromising or nasty about Israel because there is nothing to publish. At least that is what our wikileaks hero would have us believe
    LHVJ at December 15, 2010 5:48 AM

    Our Little Hussar is confused:
    a) WikiLeaks did not publish anything bad about Israel
    .
    b) *Every* country mentioned so far has come out and stated basically “WikiLeaks did not publish anything bad about our country”
    .
    c) Remember this leak, EmbassyCables, are US internal documents. Maybe the US has nothing bad to say about Israel?
    That Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu is described as a “nice person that you cannot trust” falls of course back on item b)
    (The current Swedish Foreign Minister and partner with the now deceased Richard Holbrook, was described as “a medium sized dog, with a big dog’s attitude”)
    Maybe the US Administration does not hate Israel?
    Should the missing of more juicy bits on the US Administrations hatred for Israel not be a reason to attack the US Administration and not WikiLeaks?
    -
    Our Little Hussar continues his kuruc-info angle to always complain about Israel, regardless the question/debate
    Even ‘ricsi’ has given up the Israeli-angle and promoting a Canadian retired Professor who clearly has, what Our Little Hussar would normally claim, “pro-communists views”
    The two cannot get their act together any more

  157. Sandy Claws says:

    olga,
    Guess what I found in Abu Dhabi. An $11 million Christmas tree:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/elkenmelken/4251135125/
    See if your rabbi can put a menorah next to it.

  158. olga says:

    @ Sandy Claws
    What a fabulous picture!
    I spoke to my Rabbi ( he wasn’t hard to find since I am married to him) and it appears that unlike in the States, there is no legislation stating that public buildings ought to display both the Christmas Tree and the Menorah, therefore I have disappointing news for you.
    Do not despair – one of my son’s closest friend is from Lebanon and he may move to Dubai
    to work with his Dad and if he does, my son will be visiting him for a couple of weeks this spring.
    Knowing how important this issue is to you and I I shall persuade him to speak to the Federal Nation Council and discuss constitutional amendments to draft a new law to make sure that
    the tree will have a Menorah next to it in 2011.
    Thank you for bringing the matter to my attention; you are a real pal.

  159. wolfi says:

    @sandy with claws:
    If you “found” the tree, what about sharing the loot ? My take will be just 10 % …

  160. Sandy Claws says:

    “what about sharing the loot ?”
    I don’t steal, like you and your friends.
    I think it’s mighty neighborly of an Islamic state to display such a nice Christmas tree.

  161. wolfi says:

    @clueless sandy:
    “I don’t steal, like you and your friends”
    You seem to know a lot about my friends – or maybe not …

  162. Bystander says:

    From the Wiki Page on Abu Dhabi on why they are
    not a strict Islamic state:
    “The majority of the inhabitants of Abu Dhabi are
    expatriate workers from India, Pakistan, Eritrea,
    Ethiopia, Somalia, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka,
    Philippines, the United Kingdom and various
    countries from across the Arab world.
    Consequently, English, Hindi, Urdu, Tamil,
    Tigrinya, Amharic and Bengali are widely spoken.
    Apart from Urdu and Hindi spoken by Indians and
    Pakistanis, many South Asian expatriates also
    contribute other South Asian languages to the
    cultural milieu, including Malayalam, the main
    language spoken in the state of Kerala.”
    Now this is the part that Sandy Claws should take
    note of because I’ll bet he didn’t realize how
    much has in common with his idols over in the UAE:
    “The native-born population are Arabic-speaking
    Gulf Arabs who are part of a clan-based
    society.

    Hey Sandy! You and your KKK friends would be
    right at home there in their “KLAN BASED SOCIETY”! ;)

  163. Sandy Claws says:

    “You and your KKK friends”
    KKK or JDL. What’s the difference?
    I don’t like either one, but at least the KKK is peaceful.