December 2nd, 2010

Constitution pro-life, anti-gay marriage

Human life will be protected from conception and marriage will be defined as heterosexual co-existence in the new Constitution, according to the specimen The Principles of Regulating the Constitution of Hungary.

Hungary would continue to be a republic and a democracy governed by the rule of law.

The Royal Crown will be included in the preface to the Constitution and will be emblazoned on the state flag, the concept adds.

The specimen earlier featured the idea of a bi-cameral Parliament, but this proposal has since been thrown out.

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  • freedom

    I think it’s important that Hungary become one of the first European nations to restore it’s traditional concerns towards a more pro-family, pro-life position in the new constitution.
    Unfortunately, because of the negative policies created during Soviet and recent Democratic times, Hungary’s birth rate has plummeted and the country faces a demographic deficit that must be fixed (Hungary can no longer wait for it to fix itself). The country (and all of EU)needs to restore the rights of the baby, the right to live, and rights of the family which is the most important thing in the world.

  • Palánta

    “Hungary would continue to be a republic and a
    democracy governed by the rule of law.”
    What??? Since when has it been governed by the rule
    of law. It has been ruled by successive slightly
    regulated tribes and Mafias (which includes the
    current “government”) ever since 1990. Rule of law
    would be a nice change.

  • Beijingren

    @freedom. Hungary’s birthrate has nothing to do with recent democratic times. Let alone with the lack of a constitution which defines marriage. Rubbish. Why is it that countries similar to Hungary don’t show similar developments regarding birthrates? Commies always have been fond of increasing the number of potential comrades. The measures taken in the past to control pregnant women in Hungary did not work either.
    More plausible explanations: disfunctional families, conservatism, lack of hope, lack of confidence in the Hungarian nation, failure to see reality in the eye and create something, the immense urge to feel and behave like islanders surrounded by seas of Slavs, Romanians and Austrian.
    You really think that the number of abortions is stopping the total population from growing? Really believe Lazi and Agi will start procreating like madmen now it will be in the constitution? Get real.

  • justasking

    @Beijingren;
    “More plausible explanations: disfunctional families, conservatism, lack of hope, lack of confidence in the Hungarian nation, failure to see reality in the eye and create something, the immense urge to feel and behave like islanders surrounded by seas of Slavs, Romanians and Austrian”
    “Why is it that countries similar to Hungary don’t show similar developments regarding birthrates?”
    What excuse do the Italians have, the Spanish, the US, the Canadians etc, etc for their low birth rate?
    Where have you been?
    This ‘phenomena’ is not exclusive to Hungary alone and to suggest that it was is simply ‘rubbish’.

  • SubOrban

    “It has been ruled by successive slightly
    regulated tribes and Mafias (which includes the
    current “government”)”
    It applies to all other countries as well.
    See what happens when people disagree with their governments and protest in large numbers? They get a generous beating, and no one will listen to them. The world is run by money, greed and special interests. Governments are merely their puppets.
    No one cares about the debt slaves who pay the price.

  • Andy

    Are they changing the name to the Islamic Republic of Hungary as well?

  • Dustin

    Birthrates in all developed nations have fallen
    because people are more educated and tend to marry
    later. Additionally, many people choose to have
    fewer children to devote more money towards their
    education.
    As for the birthrate in the U.S.A., there is no
    problem. The United States population continues
    to grow. It now stands at 300 million.
    Because the U.S.is an immigrant based society there are always new people moving to it and
    assimilating.
    European countries that don’t have a strong
    history of encouraging immigration and
    assimilation (along with anti-discrimination laws)
    are the ones are concerned about birthrates.

  • justasking

    @ Dustin,
    “Birthrates in all developed nations have fallen
    because people are more educated and tend to marry later. Additionally, many people choose to have fewer children to devote more money towards their education”
    I think the reasoning is a little more complex than that.
    -Fertile people on Internet and not having sex. -
    -Motherhood being a lifestyle choice and not a fact of life.
    -Personal freedom and not wanting to bring children into an uncertain future
    -Desire to spend all that you make onto yourself, retire early to live life to the fullest etc.
    -Religion-not being as important to some as to others.
    “As for the birthrate in the U.S.A., there is no
    problem. The United States population continues
    to grow. It now stands at 300 million.
    Because the U.S.is an immigrant based society there are always new people moving to it and
    assimilating”
    Yes, the US birthrate is high…due to ethnic minorities. White Americans are still too low when considering replacement rate.
    So, when you talk of assimilation…are you preparing to do just that when the face of the US changes?

  • Jaroslaw

    I love it when people say things like “pro family.” Yes, and Gay people have families and children too. And the part no one ever seems to get is that Gays will always be the minority. Extending benefits and protections to them does not threaten the majority at all. Not only that, the vast majority of Gay people work and pay taxes too. Where is it written the government only represents straights? Governments should work for ALL citizens.

  • Pete H.

    The country (and all of EU)needs to restore the rights of the baby…

    ,p.
    The baby? It says from conception! A baby is what you get when a fetus leaves the mom. From conception means as soon as the sperm and egg fuse (Cue the “Every sperm is sacred” song from Life of Brian). Good luck trying to police that. Babies rights are already protected in Hungary. And a woman must go before a panel to get permission for an abortion and it is unlikely to be granted after the first trimester unless there are medical issues or if there is an issue of rape or incest.

    ….rights of the family which is the most important thing in the world.

    How about a woman’s right to regulate her own body? Or are Hungarian woman now to be considered baby factories to grow the Hungarian population? How about the right of couples to decide when to have a family and to not be captives of failed birth control or youthful mistakes.

    I wonder how Hungarian women are going to react to this? Those of childbearing age have been raised under fairly progressive attitudes towards woman’s rights. Is this what they expected when they voted for OV? And didn’t they just change the retirement age for woman?

    So “Freedom”, woman should lose their right to choose? Should woman also loose their right to divorce also? Ironic that someone who uses the moniker Freedom, would argue to take the freedom of 1/2 of Hungarians away.

  • Pete H.

    And maybe think this through:

    Under which of these conditions would you put the the “rights” of the fused egg and sperm (after all it says from conception) above those of the couple or woman?

    Contraceptive methods may fail; couples do not always use them correctly or consistently; some women have partners who oppose contraceptive use; some become pregnant as a result of rape, and some seek abortion for health reasons.

    If you want to reduce the number of abortions, then educate young people about contraception. If you want young people to have babies then create a society where they have hope of succeeding and making a good life for their kids. Don’t grow the population by the force of unwanted or unplanned pregnancies. It’s 2010 not 1940.

  • datalore

    This is whole new constitution is nothing but the
    right wing parties trying to hold on to their power
    for the next 20 years. They have already curbed the
    power of the constitutional court and now the non
    existent KDNP (Christan Democrats) – which didn’t
    even run on a separate bill for the last 3 or 4
    elections as they don’t have enough supporters to
    get into parliament alone – wants to force it’s
    “moral values” onto the rest of the Hungarian
    nation. Let’s hope the EU won’t suffer under Orbán
    Viktor’s dictatorship. What is sure however is that
    sure he will use the EU presidency to further
    increase his control inside Hungary. It’s a very sad
    and very dark age Hungarians enter right now.

  • BobN

    That’s right. Cut part of humanity out of your Constitution and then claim that you have Rule of Law.
    Why not just leave Europe and join Yemen, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc. They don’t recognize the rights existence of gay people either.

  • Lola

    “Gay people have families and children too.”
    How do they do that? Change the laws of nature?
    I know how babies are made, it’s an interaction between the sexes. Gay households are made up of only one part of the necessary ingredients.
    If they choose to adopt an unfortunate baby, it will grow up in a very mixed up environment, so it should not be allowed. Gays may live together if they want, do their thing in the privacy of their home, but marriage is not available for them.
    Gay marriage is a silly idea, give it up already.

  • Sean Santos

    How absurd. It’s simply not the case that recognizing gay marriage has any tangible negative effects on anyone else. Nor does banning abortion have positive effects either; those women have to choose between a dangerous illegal abortion, raising a child they don’t want (and likely don’t have the resources to raise), or putting the kid up for adoption.
    Some odd comments here:
    @freedom How does preventing gay people from marrying increase the birth rate (or in any way help their families)? Is the best way to increase the birth rate really to just make sure that women raise children they didn’t want to have?
    You know, if you think more people should have kids, maybe you should convince them, and not use the government to invade people’s families and private lives to try to force them to live in certain ways.
    “Fertile people on Internet and not having sex.”
    Huh? Call me skeptical that this has a proven effect on the birthrate.
    “Yes, the US birthrate is high…due to ethnic minorities. White Americans are still too low when considering replacement rate.
    So, when you talk of assimilation…are you preparing to do just that when the face of the US changes?”
    You’re right that the birthrate among whites in the US is below replacement, so the population is largely holding due to immigration and the high birth rate.
    So what? Is this some kind of appeal to racist anxiety? “Oh no, the US will be overrun by brown people?” Please.

  • Sean Santos

    @Lola
    Your ignorance is showing.
    A substantial proportion of gay couples are raising children biologically related to at least one of them. Some have children from previous straight marriages (they are bisexual or were in denial about being gay, or hoped that a straight marriage would turn them straight, so they tried it). Some have children via surrogates or sperm donation. Adoption is only one small part of this (and, by the way, children who are raised by gay people are NOT in a more “mixed-up” environment than being wards of the state).
    And studies show that kids raised by gay couples aren’t actually worse off. That is, kids with a gay stepparent aren’t worse off than kids with a straight stepparent, kids adopted by gay couples aren’t worse off than kids adopted by straight couples. The only problem they have different from anyone else is people who insist that gay people don’t have “real” families, and try to use the government to enforce that view on everyone else. That’s where the financial trouble comes from, where the custody issues arise if one parent is incapacitated or killed, where the social stigma comes from.
    The biggest problem for children of gay parents is not the gay thing; it’s bigots like you.

  • Randy

    Insulting your customers and their families is never a good marketing plan.
    Hungary apparently exports a lot of computer, electrical, and car parts (e.g. Audi). It also exports a lot of agricultural products, including paprika and wine, and foie gras. So, to the extent possible, I’ll be ensuring my money stays out of bigoted Hungary.
    I expect that increasingly the EU will require that constitutions be free of these sorts of biased rules, irrelevant to government, as a condition of membership in the EU.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I5BGsK5ZAU Viking

    So, should the proposal for new Constitution go out on public referendum?

  • Biggie

    “I’ll be ensuring my money stays out of bigoted Hungary.”
    So you’re an anti-Hungarian bigot. We don’t want your money (if you actually have any). Spend it in a gay bar.

  • http://www.allhungary.hu Erik

    @Biggie: So if a Hungarian who is offended by
    Slovakia’s “language law” decides not to spend money
    in Slovakia, does that make them an “anti-Slovak
    bigot”?

  • Biggie

    Boycotting Slovakia would hurt Hungarians stuck outside of our borders. Just like a gay boycott of Hungary would hurt the nice gay folks living in Hungary. I have no problems with gays as long as they give up the silly idea of marriage, and tone down their obscene parades.

  • http://www.allhungary.hu Erik

    @Biggie: You dodged the question and you know it,
    you sissy :)

  • wolfi

    @Biggie sissy:
    Aren’t you like all the jobos here in favour of freedom of speech and expression ?
    Oh, I forgot, freedom is only for you pseudo-Nazis – not for the others …
    Idiot!

  • kj

    A democratic elected government starts stealing pesions, gets
    control over its independent central bank, changes heads in cultural
    and intellectual institutions, censures wikileaks, press and TV and
    agrees on discrimination on a broad basis.
    The curious thing is only that Hungary doesn’t find it embarrassing
    to ask for foreign money (20 billion so far) and foreign investment
    while riding roughshod over values of freedom and equality.
    Hungarian people of intellect and values stand up for your rights.
    The last totalitarian governance is only 20 years ago. Don’t make
    me thinking you deserve what you’ve elected.

  • Sean Santos

    “I have no problems with gays as long as they give up the silly idea of marriage, and tone down their obscene parades.”
    Yes, because the appropriate way to tolerate and coexist with other people is to insist that they conform to whatever arbitrary standards you want to enforce on them by law. After all, I have no problems with Catholics, as long as they give up their silly ideas about marriage, and tone down their obscene rhetoric about hellfire.
    I also wonder what you think about infertile atheists. They don’t conform to traditional religious ideas about marriage (which, after all, is a spiritual union, generally blessed by God). And they sure can’t biologically have children. And I’ve even heard that there are some atheists who (*gasp*) are involved in the sale of pornography. You should clearly ban any marriage between atheists known to be infertile, and demand that atheists stop producing all that pornography immediately.
    And anyone who wants to protest any such thing in a peaceful manner, perhaps through boycotts, is a bigot.
    I swear, so many people have this weird entitlement where they think any arbitrary opinion they have should be given the force of law. But the mildest protest against that is “bigotry”. The irony is tangible.

  • Plumcrazy

    @Justasking
    A lot of Catholics and definately Mormons are still having a lot of children. Some fundamentalist churchs here in the US and Canada advocate no birth control and have lots of children. Not sure about the US but most of the minorities I know here have only 1-3. I have met Native families that had a lot of children but not the younger generations. Mostly my mother’s generation. So you won’t have to worry about being surrounded by brown, cafe au lait, blacks or yellows as the majority of Mormons are of English and Scandinavian stock. Catholics and Christian Fundamentalists are mostly white too.
    I don’t like the Eastern European/German pedagoge so I think they should be banned from having children: very harsh, punitive and judgmental. Does this mean I believe they should not have children too? If only I controlled the world! God gave us our free agency so let them have theirs and worry more about ourselves.
    I don’t believe in gay marriage but I do know great gay parents as well as crappy ones. Since most of the world does not follow the bible; promiscuity and affairs are quite common and I don’t waste my time critizing them, so it is not my business to be concerned about what gays are doing in the bedroom either. Marriage no, but I believe they should have the same legal rights as heterosexual couples.

  • justasking

    @Sean,
    “”Fertile people on Internet and not having sex.”
    Huh? Call me skeptical that this has a proven effect on the birthrate”
    As I said in my post, there are many causes for low birth rates and not just 1 or 2 ‘solid’ reasons. I did not make the ‘fertile people on the Internet’ claim myself, but from articles that I have read over the years on this topic.
    ———————
    “You’re right that the birthrate among whites in the US is below replacement, so the population is largely holding due to immigration and the high birth rate.
    So what? Is this some kind of appeal to racist anxiety? “Oh no, the US will be overrun by brown people?” Please.
    No, that is not what I meant. I found it quite arrogant of the poster I direct my response to, to think that the new immigrants who are flocking the US boarders, are going to want to ‘assimilate’ into the American culture.

  • Kapuszta Killah

    Sean Santos? or is it Santos Sean? A magyar last name and a mick first name. Were your parents trying to breed a super drinker? From people’s comments,there are a number of people commenting who don’t drink socially. My Magyar Apa said that Hungary’s high per capita ratio of geniuses was more than offset by the per capita ratio of idiots. Now I know what he means.

  • Kapuszta Killah

    Oh yeah. Forgot to add,of course the brown people will assimilate. I know this unthinkable to you with your ciganyek problem, but it’s true. 2nd generation latino’s speak English as their language. A mex aint nothing but a hungo, a mick, a daego, or a pollock with a suntan.
    We bring them into the American dream, then send them to exotic parts of the world to kill and bomb other brown peoples.
    We’d send them to central Europe if there was anything there besides Kolbasz and Palinka.
    Are u sure you don’t have any oil?

  • Sean Santos

    My family history is more than mildly complex. I live in the US, in Denver. Santos is Mexican; my mother’s side of the family is the more European one. But in fact I can drink a lot of people under the table, albeit on a fairly irregular basis.
    As for assimilation, this is such an odd question. I’ve not yet encountered any ethnic group in the US that effectively *stopped* its kids from integrating to a substantial degree. Of course people generally retain a cultural identity even after they’ve learned the language and adopted some minimal changes in lifestyle, but this is not a matter of forming an aloof Mexican culture in the US in which everything works completely differently. And the influence is not exactly one-way. Mexican culture has a huge effect on the “mainstream” culture of the Southwest here even while remaining a minority culture (at least in terms of aesthetics and such; Mexican immigrants are not especially evangelistic about their value systems).
    So we don’t have an issue of one culture assimilating another, so much as a set of cultures and subcultures changing over time and borrowing from each other as a part of that. The problems come when someone decides that change to some culture is across the board and a priori bad (or good) without looking at the actual consequences of specific changes. Then they end up inventing problems that wouldn’t be problems if people stopped respecting essentially arbitrary lines around their own personal tribes.

  • leonid brezhnev

    In our heroic times, Communist system defended,
    inter alia, the principle of ‘peaceful co-existence
    between all states’. What a marvellous wording these
    Principles use!!! But they could be even better,
    close to sublime!! I suggest ‘conception and
    marriage defined as heterosexual peaceful co-
    existence’. It reminds me the words of a great
    Soviet man: ‘We will fight for peace until stone
    upon stone will not stand’.

  • Fer

    So, Someone answer me.
    Regardless of the law, if a woman still do an abortion, and considered illegal, what’s the punishment? 10 years in prison? Life in Prison? Death?

  • justasking

    @Fer,
    “So, Someone answer me.
    Regardless of the law, if a woman still do an abortion, and considered illegal, what’s the punishment? 10 years in prison? Life in Prison? Death?”
    ______________
    Oh, the possibilities are endless when forced to seek out illegal abortions!
    Botched abortions can lead to infections, sterilization, scarring on the ovaries which could lead to a woman unable to carry a child to term and even death from internal bleeding.
    So, what is the punishment towards the man who impregnats a girl who now seeks an illegal abortion?

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