April 19th, 2011

UN Secretary-General cautions gov’t over constitution and media law

United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon yesterday urged the Hungarian government to address concerns over its implementation of a new constitution and a media law that many critics claim will stifle debate.

“Hungary’s revolution has clear lessons for other countries where people are seeking freedom and change after decades of repression,” Ban said at a joint press conference in Budapest with President Pál Schmitt, his host during the trip, reported the UN’s official news website. “In that same spirit, as befits its role in the region and internationally, I hope the Hungarian Government will continue to promote its own reforms and uphold fundamental democratic principles.”

Ban’s comments to reporters and others during his visit follow earlier, more direct remarks by a UN expert on freedom of opinion about the media law, and he said there were similar concerns about certain provisions of the country’s new Constitution that was approved by the Hungarian parliament during his visit.

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  • Gandi

    Globalists (UN, EU & Amnesty,) mind your own business! Our government was elected democratically, we have the right as an independent & sovereign nation to determine our own nationhood and course! Really, f%^& off!

  • Géza

    @Gandi
    I can not agree with you more!

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I5BGsK5ZAU Viking

    A democratically elected Government is no way a guarantee for democracy, as history showed earlier
    Which other EU member state has had the UN Secretary-General coming out and urging the Government “to address concerns over its implementation of” newly implemented Laws
    If one has *any* sense of how UN and International Diplomacy works, this statement is sensational and very damaging for Fidesz and Our Dear Leader

  • Gandi

    NWO and globalists can try as much as they want, thank God Orban is standing up to them. The UN and the globalist pact has no right to tell a sovereign nation that isn’t committing any crimes against international law how to run their country and what to put in their constitution.
    I don’t know what your point is about:
    “A democratically elected Government is no way a guarantee for democracy, as history showed earlier”
    If this is your typical “left-wing” fear mongering, it isn’t going to work. If you don’t like the current government and you have the right to vote in Hungary then I suggest you line up at the polls in the next 3 years. The right has put up with the socialists for 8 years, now its your turn to put up with Fidesz for the next few years, its called democracy, love it or hate it….

  • Steve

    Viking – It is very obvious through your text in hundreds of comments, that you have true disdain for Fidesz and Orban. While I may disagree with certain aspects of any government, what matters is that we truly respect others opinions and have thoughtful commentary.
    The United Nations was designed to avoid autracity and to promote freedom throughout the world. It has done nothing against China, nothing against countless genocides worldwide, it fails to recognize the genocide by Turkish of Armenians. It has no true backbone. Why should the people or government of Hungary give a damn about what a hyprocritcal, bureacratic organization has to say. There is more corruption and undemocratic action in the UN than in most countries on this planet.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I5BGsK5ZAU Viking

    The UN and the globalist pact has no right to tell a sovereign nation that isn’t committing any crimes against international law how to run their country and what to put in their constitution
    Gandi at April 19, 2011 5:43 PM

    1) Hungary is a member of the EU, so it is not really “a sovereign nation” any more, at least not in the sense you put it
    .
    2) Hungary has signed a number if International Treaties, and is bound by others that go through the EU, so it means that other countries do have the right and obligation to speak out when they feel uncomfortable with something Hungary is saying or doing

    There are no really “sovereign nation” nowadays, we are all intertwined and a high number of international organisations have expressed their dissatisfaction with how Hungary handled new laws and this is getting more and more unique in modern European history
    We live in interesting times

  • Paul

    Wrong to assume that Hungary is standing on its own in the face of all this international criticism-
    The Peoples’ Republic of China has reported the UN’s praise of the country in almost MTI-esque type terms.
    http://english.cri.cn/6966/2011/04/18/2821s632730.htm
    It’s now quite clear what he must do if The Dear Leader (the Hungarian as opposed to the Chinese version) is unhappy with the EU and UN “interfering” in our affairs.
    They (*ahem*) need us more than we need them, why don’t we just leave them?

  • Farkas László

    One good thing about these message boards that seems to have coincided with the advent of the media law is a markedly improved tone of civility. Chalk it up coincidence, or the “fear of the lord”- I don’t know which, but I don’t miss the “old days”, which as most of you know, where too over the top in rhetorical and personal attacks.
    Happy posting! Keep it clean!

  • spectator

    @Viking & Paul
    – Don’t waste a piece of perfectly clear rectangle on you screen to argue with these lowlifes.
    They’ve got what they deserves – Mr.Orban, who “standing up to them”…
    It’s a pity, he hardly seems, let alone matters, when he “standing up to them” – or anybody else, for that matter.
    Just for curiosity’s sake:
    – How and why will your life any better, because of Mr.Orban, or/and the Fidesz rule?
    Putting everyone, who doesn’t agree with you out of the way: Great! Erasing the last sixty years of history: Wonderful!
    – Ad just how your life got any better..?
    (I would recommend to think, if it wasn’t a fictitious task, so, don’t even bother!)

  • Elle

    My guess is that Ban Ki Moon, a notorious gaffer, has just gaffed again. Someone obviously composed a ‘right thing to say in Hungary’ text for him, and he swallowed it. There will either be a back-tracking explanation of what he ‘meant’, or this silly piece of Ban finger-wagging will be left to fall into oblivion.
    I do wonder who Ban’s advisor was in this matter. I wish it were possible to find out. Only one thing is certain: s/he was a friend of the Hungarian ziobloshies. (I hope to hear from someone who has some insight into who Ban’s adviser might have been.)
    In any case (and this is almost a farce), there is no UN Charter authority for the Secretary General to intervene in the internal affairs of a member state. In fact, the Charter contains specific provisions against such interference. Technically, therefore, Ban is in breach of the Constitution for seeming to have admonished the Hungarian government.

  • Steve

    Spectator:
    For one, corporate taxes for small to medium size business has been cut, and it is less burdensome to hire Hungarian workers, and the matching costs on an employee’s pay is lower, meaning, it is not overly expensive to HIRE. Hiring = jobs = money in people’s pockets which in turn helps the economy and the spirit of the people. Unfortunately everyone looks on a global scale of what a government should be doing but fails to look at the details which is spurring growth.

  • Leto

    @Steve:
    For two, I look forward to filling in the simplified tax form which may make sense at last. You might know what a real nightmare Hungarian tax forms have been since 1988 or so..

  • Steve

    People need to give any party in charge a chance. MSZP had 8 years to make things happen and they did not do much at all. They inherited an uptick economy in 2002 with growth and taxed the hell out of it, spent a ton of money and did not plant the seeds for the future.
    I wonder if bloggers just to love to criticize or if there is a true point to their text.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I5BGsK5ZAU Viking

    Why should the people or government of Hungary give a damn about what a hyprocritcal, bureacratic organization has to say. There is more corruption and undemocratic action in the UN than in most countries on this planet
    Steve at April 19, 2011 6:22 PM

    Good question
    The answer is probably around the idea that Fidesz, as a member of the EPP and strong supporter of the UN, would actually love to be a temporary member of the UN Security Council (UNSC)?
    To be elected as one of the few to sit in the UNSC would be a big boost for Our Dear leader

    I think ‘elle junk’ should read the official UN press release:

    http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=38139

    It is much harder than what has been quoted in this article, but one just have to love the Chinese version
    (Paul at April 19, 2011 7:07 PM)
    Hard to think they discuss the same meetings

  • spectator

    @Steve
    “Hiring = jobs = money in people’s pockets which in turn helps the economy and the spirit of the people.”
    While your reasoning goes around nicely – in theory, that is – the real life works differently.
    Companies don’t hire people just because it became less expensive – companies hire, when they have to produce more of something, and they need the right kind of workforce, just for that production.
    – When it used to happen?
    – When people have money in their pockets, and they will present a demand for more- or a certain product, so inspire the companies to produce.
    The restaurant-owner certainly won’t employ more servants, just because it cheaper now, if she/he haven’t got more customers, you see..
    The whole thing oversimplified, but I hope, you’ll get the point.
    The point otherwise: wrong order of things, hence wrong concept – failure by default.
    As simple as is, nobody can override the time, the right-, the necessary order of events.
    Not even the Great Leader himself, Mr.Orban not yet omnipotent, you see, a pity, really.

  • spectator

    - Hmmm…. turned feudalistic a bit:
    “waiters/waitresses” instead of “servants”
    (- Actually a flashback from another language, sorry!)

  • Leto

    If a gadget becomes cheaper then I’ll be certainly more inclined to buy it, provided I’d need it. The same goes for companies when they hire people.
    The whole thing is over-simplified but I’m sure you won’t get the point. :)

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I5BGsK5ZAU Viking

    The whole thing is over-simplified but I’m sure you won’t get the point
    Leto at April 19, 2011 9:18 PM

    Yes, because in Orbanistan things are definitely not simple…
    From this year Tarlos, Fidesz Mayor for Budapest, started a new rule that restaurants can only occupy 30% of the side-walk as terass on the Körut
    Perfect where the side-walks on the Körut is 10 m and a lot of people
    Idiotic where I have my place, we get a terass that is 125 cm wide
    On 1.25 m we should fit in fence, table, chair, guest and waitress, try that
    The City Guards go around and check that you are not a mm outside the designated space, so it is a real problem. Any cm outside costs you 100.000 Forints in fines (or you make a deal with the guards, which is not cheap either)
    Last year this was not a problem to have a 3 m wide terass, but your normal Fidesz Kafka-like bureaucrats need to create new rules to create their Empire
    This is when it is totally useless that the waitresses are cheaper, then we have no place to sell in the 8 months when we can do it outside per year
    And how did the waitresses become cheaper?
    The earn of course less than 350.000 gross per month, so they lost several thousand forints now with Fidesz, which either we compensate, or they steal from us
    So why do we need more waitresses?
    Not more guests and the staff is more expensive, that is the reality in Orbanistan

  • spectator

    @Leto
    You certainly missed one ingredient, dear.
    When you make a decision regarding the purchase, you either will have the “thing”, and you own it, or you don’t – in case “yes”, the “thing” is your property, that’s about it.
    If you would ever have run a company, you certainly would know, that you will want to have more worker, if you will have use of them, regardless of the cost. If you don’t need two people to do something, you don’t hire the second one, that simple. The cost alone never matters.
    Back to you, dear: I dare say, you probably don’t buy “things”, just because they became slightly cheaper, if you don’t have any use of those particular “things”, do you?
    To help you out: the missing ingredient was the “use”, you see.
    You have to have – well, I certainly do – a reason to buy something in the first place, thereafter I’ll look at the price, and not the other way around.
    You right though in one account: If someone considering to hire a worker – because the business need it – it certainly help, if the cost lower. But only in this condition, you see.

  • Leto

    “The cost alone never matters.”
    Where did I say that?
    “it certainly help, if the cost lower. ”
    I said that. My analogy would have been better with a car where, besides the fixed cost (initial purchase), there is variable cost (maintenance). The point is still the same.

  • Steve

    Well let’s see. I’m a business owner in Hungary and will add
    3 staff more than planned in last years budget. Businesses
    will likely hire more in Hungary rather than Slovakia and
    Poland because of tax rates. Is anyone that blogs here a
    business owner?

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I5BGsK5ZAU Viking

    Is anyone that blogs here a business owner?
    Steve at April 20, 2011 12:46 AM

    I am
    And as I wrote staff with a salary less than 350.000 HUF/month gross (and I would say 50-80% earn less than that) became more expensive from January 1st due to the flat tax regime
    This due to their net salary went down and the workers (and the Government) expects that the employers substitute them for this loss
    .
    If you are a business owner in Hungary, and a bit flexible, the cheapest work-force is to import semi-skilled workers from the Ukraine (ethnic Hungarians), fix their Hungarian work-papers (which will force them to work for you for 2 years (the workers can change to any other employer, but only in the same county, like Pest)). When the work-period is over, the workers have to leave Hungary, but now they can easy become New Hungarian Citizens, or they just enter the black economy. Normally these workers do not want to move to Hungary though, so they are really migrant, waiting to get some better opportunities at home instead
    .
    This is rather usual in the construction industry
    In this way you feed the ethnic Hungarian minority in Ukraine (who are the cheapest and hardest workers), so their families can stay on in Ukraine and spend their salaries in the Ukraine market
    Of course this goes against the intention of building up the Hungarian economy, but as a business owner you do what you can to keep your cost down

  • Uncsi

    The UN is useless. Someone ought to tell them already.

  • Paul

    Ah… the bizarre Chinese interpretation of the UN’s criticism has been cleared up:
    http://bbjonline.hu/economy/hungary-and-china-lay-foundation-for-long-term-strategic-cooperation_57328
    You can see the obvious benefits of this from Orban’s point of view, the Chinese are hardly going to raise pesky human-rights concerns about his regime in the same way the EU and the UN have.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I5BGsK5ZAU Viking

    If a gadget becomes cheaper then I’ll be certainly more inclined to buy it, provided I’d need it. The same goes for companies when they hire people.
    The whole thing is over-simplified but I’m sure you won’t get the point
    Leto at April 19, 2011 9:18 PM
    —-
    But workers did not become cheaper:

    http://www.realdeal.hu/20110420/all-stateowned-firms-said-to-have-paid-wage-compensation-after-tax-change

    “Antal Rogan said he had met with Prime Minister Viktor Orban and presented to him the first draft report of the wage monitoring committee showing that only around half of private-sector companies had paid the necessary compensation to workers”
    .
    “the necessary compensation to workers”
    So, workers were intended to become more expensive and that should create more jobs?
    But I suppose “you won’t get the point”

  • Steve

    The tax rate for the employee increased about 3,000-4000 monthly for employees in the Brutto 200,000 raise, and the matching cost by the company dropped.
    This was designed to punish minimum wage workers who are claiming they are making minimum wage, but are working in the black market and earning cash on the side.

  • Leto

    Indeed. There’s an awful lot of them who do this (often under pressure)

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I5BGsK5ZAU Viking

    This was designed to punish minimum wage workers who are claiming they are making minimum wage, but are working in the black market and earning cash on the side.
    Steve at April 21, 2011 12:56 AM
    ===
    Indeed. There’s an awful lot of them who do this (often under pressure)
    Leto at April 21, 2011 1:06 AM

    So why did State Owned Companies need to rise the wages to support this decrease in net-salary then?
    Hungarian State Owned Companies have “an awful lot of” “minimum wage workers who are claiming they are making minimum wage, but are working in the black market and earning cash on the side”?
    See this link:

    http://www.realdeal.hu/20110420/all-stateowned-firms-said-to-have-paid-wage-compensation-after-tax-change

    “Public-sector companies have fully compensated low-earners for wage loss resulting from the introduction of the 16 percent flat-rate personal income tax system, the head of the governing Fidesz party’s wage monitoring committee said on Tuesday”
    .
    If it really “was designed to punish minimum wage workers”, why was the compensation demand missing from the original proposal and was only added several weeks after, when some more clever people than Our Dear Leader and his cohorts did the Maths
    .
    Seems to be a very hard ‘punishment’ when Our Dear Leader tasked Antal Rogan to be “the head of the governing Fidesz party’s wage monitoring committee” to effectively force Private Companies to pay up

  • Concerns

    The world economy is in ruins, Africa and the Middle-East about to blow up, we’re running out of resources and ideas on how to sustain an unsustainable way of life, etc. so let’s go after Hungary. Idiots.

  • nimh

    @Elle wrote: “I do wonder who Ban’s advisor was in this matter. I wish it were possible to find out. Only one thing is certain: s/he was a friend of the Hungarian ziobloshies. (I hope to hear from someone who has some insight into who Ban’s adviser might have been.)”
    Considering that Frank La Rue, the UN Special Rapporteur on the promotion and protection of the right to freedom of opinion and expression, just published his highly critical end-of-mission report about the new Hungarian media laws earlier this month, which he presented at a much-publicized joint press conference with state secretary Zoltán Kovács, it’s not exactly a mystery. No ziobolshy conspiracy here.
    (I tried posting this reply with a few links – to the UN press release after La Rue’s visit, his full report, and the Politics.hu story at the time – yesterday, but it was held by the moderator and never appeared, and trying to post it again just now it was held again by the moderator – but hey, y’all know how to Google.)

  • Elle

    nimh, here is the ‘Guatemalan’ Frank La Rue, speaking at George Soros’s university, the Central European University, on 5 April 2011: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWDG9bGOLEY.
    So it’s Soros who orchestrated the chewing of the UN Secretary General’s ear in Hungary! Thanks for the tip.
    Well, I suppose they have had to give up on the EU as their means of knocking out the Hungarian media law. Now they are running around in the UN. I listened to bits only of this very boring Special Rapporteur’s lecture. (Yawn): ‘requiring balanced press coverage inevitably leads to censorship’; ‘media council should also include opposition delegates’. Same old, same old.
    It’s interesting that the UN is not one bit concerned about the owner-censored international media. Now, there you have a censorship control the like of which Stalin himself would have envied. Not one ‘mainstream’ organ of it departs from the politically correct.

  • nimh

    @Elle – I’m not sure I follow your logic.
    During his closing visit to Hungary, when he spoke with Hungarian government and civil society representatives, Frank La Rue was also invited to give a guest lecture at the Central European University – during which he studiously avoided saying much in detail about the Hungarian case.
    If I understand you correctly, this therefore proves that his long, detailed report on the Hungarian media legislation, based on his analysis of the laws and conversations with the major actors involved, from government and opposition, and the advice he must have given his superiors at the UN on the basis of his research, must all just have been nothing but George Soros whispering into the UN Secretary General’s ear?
    Is that one of those six degrees of separation things? I once saw Cheney in the company of a Russian woman who was also seen dining with a banker whose dog once bit Putin, proving that the Iraq war was all a set-up, I don’t know, something like that?

  • Elle

    No, nimh: no need for your ‘this therefore proves that his long, detailed report on the Hungarian media legislation … must all just have been nothing but George Soros whispering into the UN Secretary General’s ear ‘, nor for your ‘six degrees of separation things’. There is an old Hungarian saying: Kilóg a szőrös lóláb. It’s English version is ‘the cloven foot is showing’. Thanks again for pointing it out to me.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I5BGsK5ZAU Viking

    So it’s Soros who orchestrated the chewing of the UN Secretary General’s ear in Hungary! Thanks for the tip
    Elle at April 21, 2011 6:19 PM

    “In 1991 Orbán received a scholarship from the Soros Foundation and spent a half year in Oxford, where he studied at Pembroke College”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Orb%C3%A1n

    “Thanks for the tip”
    Obviously Orban learnt everything that was needed to become a Soros poodle
    Our Dear Leader Is A Quick Learner

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