Four people were injured, one seriously, when a group of radical nationalists clashed with local Roma in Gyongyospata in northern Hungary late on Tuesday.
Roma leader Aladar Horvath told MTI from the site that the fight had broken out when uniformed members of the paramilitary Vedero (Defence Force) group threw stones at a house in the village’s Roma neighbourhood.
News portal Index quoted Janos Rado, an official of the Roma Civil Rights Foundation, as saying that Vedero activists and locals supporting them had been provoking Roma people during the day.
After the fight, several people were detained amid a heavy police presence.
Laszlo Horvath, the government’s commissioner for Heves County, visiting Gyongyospata, told MTI that the situation had become “uncontrollable” and called for an end to “political disaster tourism”.
On Friday, nearly 300 Roma women and children were transported out of Gyongyospata on buses provided by the Red Cross after Vedero announced it would set up a “defence training camp” in their neighbourhood.
The Roma group returned two days later when police detained leaders of the radical group and participants left the campsite.
Radical groups have staged demonstrations and organised patrols in several villages in Hungary’s poor and unemployment-hit northern and north-eastern regions over the past few weeks, saying that it was their duty to “restore public order” in areas with a high crime rate.
Senior lawmaker of radical nationalist party Jobbik, Janos Volner, told a news conference that the events of Tuesday evening “prove that a crisis in public safety had emerged in Hungary.”
“The Fidesz government is incapable of guaranteeing law and order anywhere in the country,” Volner, the Jobbik parliamentary group’s deputy leader, said. He added that “a civil militia should be established in place of the woeful and uncertain police, which are subsumed to political interests, because without unified order the government will not be capable of taking up the fight against this kind of Gypsy crime,” he said.
Volner also accused local Roma of having “attacked Hungarians” on Tuesday.
MTI’s correspondent said the situation remained tense in Gyongyospata following the violent incident, with members of the Roma community and Vedero activists being kept apart by police and their vehicles.
—-
This is from a previous incident, over a week before this incident, showing there is a pattern of intimidation and provocation against the Roma:
““Last night an other house was attacked at the end of the Gypsy row, they threw stones at a window” – sais Farkas”
“We head off to visit the house that is said to have been attacked”
“The hut that was attacked stands in the end of the row, a little further it’s already the modern, pink and orange houses shining on us. The owners are waiting in front of the house to show the broken window and the two stones that the police took out of the house but of course didn’t send them to the lab.
“I asked when they were going to come but the police didn’t even answer” – sais the owner of the house. “Luckily my kids were sleeping elsewhere so nobody got hurt”
““I have recognized two of the aggressors but the police didn’t interrogate them” – complains the man”
-
http://gyongyospatasolidarity.wordpress.com/2011/04/23/attack-of-the-guardist-clones/
-
In this into English translated article, you can find the link to the original Hungarian Index-article:
“Gárdaklónok támadása” by Szabó Zoltán, published on 2011. április 18., hétfő 00:35, well before the Good Friday Evacuation
-
That the Roma in Gyöngyöspata is no longer going to accept these provocations/attacks seems clear now, and it is up to the Police to find a way out of this escalating violence
Obviously the violence happens when outsiders come and throw stones on Roma houses, so…?
A minor injury for a Gypsy boy and three non-Gypsy injured. One of them was very severely hurt.
http://index.hu/belfold/2011/04/27/vertocsa_felett_zengett_a_szebb_jovot/
Liberal newportal Index.hu:
‘Any Gypsies whom we tried to speak said, “I got there only in the end” or simply “I wasn’t there”.’
Here is an English translation of an Hungarian Index-report:
-
http://gyongyospatasolidarity.wordpress.com/2011/04/27/via-index-bloody-fight-in-gyongyospata/
-
It is not the same as ‘leto’ is linking to
“more and more uniformed Véderő members were sneaking back on Tuesday. They, and their local Gyöngyöspata supporters were provoking those Roma who live not in the Roma neighbourhood, but in the central areas of the town. Allegedly, they also threatened them with a gun during the day.
By the evening, in the middle of a birthday celebration, the provocation increased, and more and more gathered on both sides. The Roma called the police, first one patrol arrived, then more policemen.
While the crowd was gathering in the central areas of the town, some threw stones at the windows of one of the houses in the Roma neighbourhood, some 10 minutes walk from there, then assaulted a 14-year-old local Roma boy. A serious fight in the Roma neighbourhood followed”
.
“there was no peace even in the recent days: many villagers hosted extremists of Véderő, who were ‘hiding out’ there in the recent days after having been sent away from their camp during the weekend”
-
It seems rather clear that the “Véderö”-militia has local support, even logistics support locally, and it may be that they will be able to challenge “Jobbik” on the hegemony of the far-right in this small village
It also seem to be a deliberate tactic, applauded by ‘leto’, to intimidate the Roma ‘enough’ to leave Gyöngyöspata
Here is another English-language article that seems to be a collection of different Hungarian articles, among the one ‘leto’ linked above:
-
http://cib.hu/retail_banking/current/economic_news/index?id=P22132
-
That this is on an Hungarian Bank’s English-language News-site tells a bit how important these disturbances are seen
It is definitely not just a local kocsma-brawl
Or as “László Horváth, government commissioner in Heves county, told local newswire MTI the situation is clearly beyond control. He said “this political catastrophe tourism must be put to an end”"
@olga:
This is an Index.hu editorial opinion article on the recent events:
http://index.hu/velemeny/2011/04/27/hogyan_kerul_pinter_sandor_a_ciganysorra/
Interestingly, it coincides with my opinion pretty well. It describes how Jobbik and “the mysterious Gypsy savers” are playing this match.
As for the role of Fidesz in this political game, they write exactly what I wrote somewhere on this board earlier:
“The government’s spectacular measures in Gyöngyöspata were already not about Jobbik, those tried to fend off an attack on an international level. Gypsies are not evacuated citizens in this game, they are procession men in an insidious plot unfolding between the ruling party and a force, perhaps domestic or maybe foreign, which is trying to harm Fidesz.”
The liberal newsportal Index.hu cannot be accused of being pro-Fidesz..
@ Leto
I read this article as well as another article you posted. I can’t find the other article, (I closed it) but copied this from it before I lost it:
“Többen kiabálni kezdtek, a férfiak visszafutottak az utca másik végéről, ebből alakult ki a verekedés, elmondásuk szerint hét-nyolc cigány és négy-öt egyenruhás között. Olaj volt a tűzre, hogy megsérült egy 14 éves cigány fiú, a szeménél ütötték meg.”
Sounds like a complete circus that Vadorlo initiated – so a fight broke out between 7-8 gypsies and 4-5 unformed thugs, the term “adding fuel to the fire” was used and a 14 year old boy got hurt. So the brave men in uniform are fighting a 14 year old. Nice going
Only God could a have a short term answer for “Roma Integration” but why is FIDESZ not putting the vigilantes out of business by providing proper protection to its citizens in these trouble areas?
Reading the article you posted gives the impression the law abiding Roma are trembling, the local Hungarians live in constant fear and honestly, I can’t blame them for turning to anyone who they think might help.
This may sound like it’s off topic but it’s not. One of my son’s best friends phoned Easter Sunday from Afghanistan asking for my son’s number and I spoke to him for a few minutes. He is employed by the US gov’t (nothing to do with the army) and whatever his group is doing for the Afghan people (details are irrelevant)it’s is to prevent the Taliban from “offering the same or similar service”
The far right and Roma. Add up the number of posts on this site concerning these two groups and I think we could safely say it would average 60-70% of the total input.
Hungary is sinking and there are insurmountable problems everywhere.
This site has become a tittle-tattle meeting place for those busybodies that live thousands of miles away in foreign countries,and together with the bar stool pigeons in Budapest, continually slate Jobbik/MG or other peripheral groups of the same sort in the hope that it will gain them a sainthood.
Hungary weeps and the tears fall unnoticed by the uncaring and ignorant bunch of gossips that scribble and drivel ad infinitum.
@ Leto
I noticed but it was too late that I spelled “Véderö” incorrectly – I just hope this makes it before Double’s posting does letting me know I made a mistake…
Or actually the 14 year old boy was fighting “the brave men”. You can never know and this detail is missing from all the reports I read.
“proper protection”? Well, Orbán’s second government has increased the police by 1800 policemen so far and there’ll be 2000 more this year. (You know there are about 3200 settlements in Hungary.)
“Petty theft” has become a crime now. Under MSZP-SZDSZ earlier a theft value less than 20 thousands HUF was an offense, practically unpunished!!
The new constitution ensures citizens’ right to self-defence. That’ll have law implications.
They’ve passed the “three strikes” law (taken from US practice): commit three violent crimes and you’re locked up for life.
These have been short term fire-fighting measures.
But certainly to tackle crime in general is to deal with social problems. Education (not only schooling but also mindset changes!), unemployment, etc. Of course that’s a long term thing.
Paying child benefits have been tied to school attendence again, like they were during the first Orban government. That’s huge! One of the measures of MSZP-SZDSZ in 2002 was to scrap this “racist regulation”…
@Notary who wrote:
“This site has become a tittle-tattle meeting
place for those busybodies that live thousands of
miles away in foreign countries,and together with
the bar stool pigeons in Budapest, continually
slate Jobbik/MG or other peripheral groups of the
same sort in the hope that it will gain them a
sainthood.
Hungary weeps and the tears fall unnoticed by the
uncaring and ignorant bunch of gossips that
scribble and drivel ad infinitum.”
And you were pinning all Hungary’s hopes and
dreams on a site designed to facilitate political
discussions in ENGLISH on the internet? Maybe if
you’re serious about improving the lot of Hungary
in a serious way that’s not geared toward
foreigners/speakers then maybe you should get your
sorry ass to a Magyar/Hungarian language website
and take your whiny-self-important-martyred
attitude with you. Because Hungary ain’t weeping
because of Politics.hu and if you have something
better to do with your time, by all means go do
it… but you’re not fooling anyone here with your
comment that you have anything more to contribute
here or else you would’ve DONE it by now, right?
It so happens that the topics (in large part, not
all) ARE the issues that appeal to ENGLISH
SPEAKERS with an interest in Hungary, either from
inside or outside of Hungary. Sure, it’s skewed a
bit, but your whining that we are “uncaring,
ignorant gossips” is a crock of sh-t.
Perhaps the international community has some
valuable contributions to make to Hungary?
“Perhaps the international community has some
valuable contributions to make to Hungary?”
Funny…
@ Leto and Bystander
Leto: Re: “They’ve passed the “three strikes” law (taken from US practice): commit three violent crimes and you’re locked up for life.”
Change it to “two strikes” and bring the law to Canada.
BTW, since I live in a big city, the sad truth is that the police simply don’t have time to deal with either petty crime or even B & E unless violence is involved. Friend of mine had a break-in a few years ago, the robbers were kind enough to leave all the screws they took out from the windows to get into house in a little candy dish. Jewellry and electronics were taken and the police said it was a break-n by “non professionals” and that’s the last they heard from the police. They are not “sleeping at the wheel” there is not enough police to deal with property crimes.
Re: Child benefits being tied to school atttendance being racist – only if it’s tied to a “race” so that mkaes no sense but I know that the Left has its own crazies so it’s no surprise.
Bystander – you need to learn English before you tackle Hungarian
RE “This site has become a tittle-tattle meeting
place for those busybodies that live thousands of
miles away in foreign countries” etc etc applies only to those who don’t support JOBBIK, MG,etc.
All foreigners’ opinions are welcome provided they worship David Duke and the Minutemen (one of the latter just got a death sentence for a similar crime in the US than the one committed by the Kiss Brothers, Csontos and 1 more guy whose name I forgot)
@olga “I just hope this makes it before Double’s posting does letting me know I made a mistake…”
Don’t worry olga, your spelling mistake does not bother me, I know what you meant. The more bothersome comes in your post when you are talking about 7-8 Gypsies; I think you left off the 0 there, it should be 70-80.
@ Double
There you go again, not trusting me (ok, so i screwed up the Red Cross article but I corrrected it before you had a chance to “appear”)
Here is the paragraph:
“Többen kiabálni kezdtek, a férfiak visszafutottak az utca másik végéről, ebből alakult ki a verekedés, elmondásuk szerint hét-nyolc cigány és négy-öt egyenruhás között. Olaj volt a tűzre, hogy megsérült egy 14 éves cigány fiú, a szeménél ütötték meg.”
I didn’t say I counted people but I got the numbers correctly as per my original posting, moreover I would say the tone of the article did not imply a pro-JOBBIK stance and maybe you can translate the headline which is clue number 1
http://index.hu/belfold/2011/04/27/vertocsa_felett_zengett_a_szebb_jovot/
@Olga,
“BTW, since I live in a big city, the sad truth is that the police simply don’t have time to deal with either petty crime or even B & E unless violence is involved”
Yes and you’re right, the police can not be expected to be everywhere all of the time. That being said, what’s happening in this town would never happen here in Canada.
Can you ever imagine a law being passed in Canada, which allowed criminals to steal up to 20, 000 HUF or $200 Canadian, before charges would be laid?
Until recently, that was the case in Hungary though.
What kind of message does that send, not only to the criminals…but, to the victims as well?
To the criminals…’Don’t worry guys, steal away, as long as you practise some form of control’ and to the victims…’We have bigger and better things to do…please don’t bother use because really…we don’t care’
In Canada, a special task force would have been created. One, that would include visible minority cops and non-visible minority cops. Sensitivity training would be included in the curriculum…everybody would know that the targets were a small % of a minority group, but, nobody would be saying it out loud.
Canadians are, at the end of the day, extremely politically correct.
People would not be scoffed at, their complaints heard and taken seriously.
It would NEVER have gotten as far as it has in Hungary, with these ‘groups’ trying to fill in for the cops.
@Olga con’t,
As far as I’m concerned…the way I see it, there is not one decent political party in Hungary today. Not Fidesz, not Jobbik, not MSZP, not LMP nobody.
Nobody really gives a shit, not one of them. I’m all for tearing down those bloody street names, believe me I am…but, that needs to come later.
After jobs have been created, wages drastically increased, export being focused on etc, etc, etc.
Love ya Leto, but, after talking to family and friends in Hungary constantly on Skype…it ain’t good, ain’t good at all.
The people are suffering, barely scraping by and nobody is listening.
Or actually the 14 year old boy was fighting “the brave men”. You can never know and this detail is missing from all the reports I read.
Leto at April 27, 2011 11:48 PM
—
Then this was a Roma injured, of course it was missing from the reports you read
It was though in the reports I read
And he can be seen after 1 minute on this video from MTV on the same hospital as his attackers
He is with his Mother and his right eye is hurt
According to reports he was attacked (by ‘Alex’?, whom you can see from 1:30)
-
http://videotar.mtv.hu/Videok/2011/04/27/05/A_gyongyospatai_tomegverekedes_serultjei.aspx
-
‘Alex’ is the brave “Véderö”-militia who took a piss and then in the hospital has smeared all blood he could find over his face and refused to wash it off
@justasking:
“I’m all for tearing down those bloody street names, believe me I am…but, that needs to come later.”
No, no way. That must be done now, everywhere and thoroughly. Actually this name clean-up should have been started last October and then we might be over the hassle already.
“Petty theft” has become a crime now. Under MSZP-SZDSZ earlier a theft value less than 20 thousands HUF was an offense, practically unpunished!!
…
They’ve passed the “three strikes” law (taken from US practice): commit three violent crimes and you’re locked up for life.
…
Paying child benefits have been tied to school attendence again, like they were during the first Orban government
Leto at April 27, 2011 11:48 PM
—
“Petty theft” is like stealing apples or shoplifting minor items
I did both things when I was young
It was part of growing up in a worker-class area and showing you could be worthy some gang
Gang here is very soft and not exactly like what you see today
Like the vast majority I stopped after a few times (did not like it), but a few guys went on to ‘borrow cars’ and ending up in jail
Hard to say what differed us though
-
Putting me in jail, giving me a conviction that would spoil my future, well I can be glad I did not grow up in Orbanis(a)tan
-
I finished my 9 year basic school as the best boy in my class with 4.5 in average, so it was not like that I hated school or did not hack it
The guys who ended up in jail did not finish the obligatory 9 years and probably had what they today call ADHD and similar things
@justasking:
PS: I never said it’s good. The difference is everything was going down steeply. Now it’s going down less slowly or it’s actually flattening out. Orbán and Fidesz has a bloody difficult job. Hungary was a leading economy in 2002 in the region and it became a trailing one by 2010.
Can you ever imagine a law being passed in Canada, which allowed criminals to steal up to 20, 000 HUF or $200 Canadian, before charges would be laid?
Until recently, that was the case in Hungary though
justasking at April 28, 2011 5:48 AM
—
I think you missed this a bit
Before if the value was under 20.000 HUF it was legally an ‘offence’, if it was over, it was a ‘crime’
The difference is the punishment
* Offence: fast track procedure, no defence lawyer, just an administrative procedure and you get a fine or same harsh words
* Crime: proper court, defence lawyer and can drag on forever and you may go to jail (some years later)
-
The current rule for this in Sweden is 1.000 SEK, about 27-30.000 HUF, and I think even Canada has something similar
-
In a recent study by the Swedish Institute for Crime Prevention about 30% of 9-graders (15 yo) claimed they have shoplifted at least one time
Of the caught shoplifters young girls are over-represented (lots of cosmetics there)
I would assume the real figures are the same in Canada
-
The question is if we want that our young people end up in the prison system (as criminals), or we should handle this a bit more gentler (as an offence)?
The offence-trail makes it easier for the parents to act in the future, but what do you do if your daughter is caught shop-lifting a lipstick and end up in prison?
Oops, I meant “less rapidly” instead of “less slowly”, of course.
@justasking:
Let me get the 20000 HUF limit straight. A theft below that level used to be a “szabálysértés” (offence). The possible punishment was just some fine and reprimandment. What this meant in practice is that the police didn’t care a s..t about such theft and and actually victims gave up bothering about it, too. People, who were called as “megélhetési bűnözők” in an infamous Parliament reply by interior minister, payed special attention not to exceed this limit at one time. After all there are 365 days in a year.
Read this:
http://www.budapestanalyses.hu/docs/Hu/Elemz%C3%A9sek_Arch%C3%ADvum/analysys_216_hu.html
@olga:
The above analysis is available in English, too. So you don’t need too make an extra effort to understand the Hungarian version:
http://www.budapestanalyses.hu/docs/En/Analyses_Archive/analysys_216_en.html
Uh, damn, I forgot that the MSZP-SZDSZ government actually made the notaries of the local governments to “handle” those ‘petty thefts’ instead of the police…
@Viking,
“”Petty theft” is like stealing apples or shoplifting minor items”
It’s no longer becomes ‘petty’ when you add the impact that it has on society. Small theft here, a little bigger there…is still theft.
If my daughter were to be caught shoplifting…I don’t care if it was something as ‘petty’ as stickers…trust me, she would be allot safer in jail then around me.
I would then, be questioning myself on how I could have missed this type of behaviour, her friends etc.
Was I not involved in her life enough? Did I do enough as a responsible parent etc?
I would be holding MYSELF responsible for her actions as well.
the MSZP-SZDSZ government actually made the notaries of the local governments to “handle” those ‘petty thefts’ instead of the police…
Leto at April 29, 2011 9:28 PM
—
One reason, at least in other countries, like Sweden, is to remove the burden on the Courts for these “petty crimes”
Of course one could argue every case should go to Court and the defendant should have a defence lawyer appointed for free and there should be a number of persons in the jury, where each juror would get more money than the actual theft costed, so the total cost for the society would then be very expensive for each such “petty criminal” caught and processed
* Now this will be the case in Hungary
* At the same time as elderly judges are dismissed, creating a sudden vacuum of trial judges
* At the same time as court procedures are lagging behind more and more and every year a number will have to be written off, then it has taken too long time to process them
* The ones that get threw, after a few years where the original offender was caught being 18 (= normal court) and now is 22, got a workplace and will now have to finish it all and go to some months in prison due to a stolen lipstick in a stupid drunk prank at school-end
* And that costed the Hungarian society several million HUF in prosecution, trial and prison
* The now criminal will have a very hard time to get any job after this prison-term and will cost the society much money in the future
-
Well that will be Hungary now
I would be holding MYSELF responsible for her actions as well.
justasking at April 29, 2011 10:27 PM
—
Yes, Mothers tend to do that
And you will have a lot of ‘holding’ to do when they become teenagers, believe me…
.
I was lucky never to end up in court, but that was more because the people who should have reported me, stopped with a serious talk. They maybe remembered their own childhood and that they did not want to make it into such a drastic thing?
@Leto,
“No, no way. That must be done now, everywhere and thoroughly”
Believe when I say, I want to see them gone as much as you do…just right now, I want to see jobs created, more aggressive exports of Hungarian products…I want to see ‘direct impact’ in a positive way, to the people.
All I see right now, are people barely making ends meet, while at the same time, expected to tolerate more of the same old same old.
I was talking to my cousin the other day…and low and behold, politics popped up.
‘so who did you vote for last round?
“Senki sem, he said… ők mind egyformák .. Most már, az emberek élnek az utcán, ez az új Magyarország baszd meg”
That being said…I have an Uncle like you…the sun rises and sets on Fidesz’s ass. I tend to be a little leery of that much devotion to a political party.
I do however appreciate, respect and would never even think to question your love for Hungary and it’s people.
I can only imagine the work that Fidesz is faced with…I just think they need to pick their battles a little more carefully.
How do you eat an elephant?…One bit at a time.
Keep in mind…Apu thinks I’m not right winged enough. oh, well
@Viking,
DD
“I was lucky never to end up in court, but that was more because the people who should have reported me, stopped with a serious talk. They maybe remembered their own childhood and that they did not want to make it into such a drastic thing?”
Quite possible…but then again, I’m a small ‘c’ conservative and you a communist
@justasking:
I’m afraid you didn’t get what I wrote. Disposing of MSZP-SZDSZ needs to be done at all levels and the symbolic level is as important as other aspects. You just cannot leave street names like Ságvári Endre or Sallai Imre in place. (And while you are at it you can fix some other issues, too, like Roosevel tér and Moszkva tér.) Keeping those names would send the (very) wrong message to everyone. And this has NOTHING to do with my party preference which is Fidesz now. It’s got to do only with my preference for safe-guarding Hungary from them.
Don’t get me wrong, getting rid of the postcommie networks (political form known as MSZP-SZDSZ) is certainly more important in other areas than this. Besides all that still cannot, definitely and evidently, be a substitute for creating jobs, establishing law and order in the whole country and improving people’s life in all possible way. What I’m saying is that changing the names of streets cannot wait, it must be done now and in parallel with these jobs. It shouldn’t and it doesn’t exclude doing those things.
@justasking:
And, related to this topic, do read this: http://www.magyarhirlap.hu/velemeny/alex.html
A legjobb publicisztika, amelyet mostanában olvastam.
@Leto,
Kösz … imádom a Bayer Zsolt
“Keeping those names would send the (very) wrong message to everyone.”
Not changing street names will not send any message to anyone. It would mean that we have more important issues to deal with. Unfortunately our new ruling party is too busy passing wind and legislations, enjoying their 2/3rd majority, drunk with power, short on useful ideas.
We have yet to see some of that power used to recover at least some of the stolen goods, convict criminals, create jobs, protect its citizens, improve the 3rd world level health care, help Hungarian businesses compete with foreign speculators, ad so on.
If you really believe that changing a few street names will bring the MSZP gang to its knees, you’re dreaming. Put Gyurcsany and his buddies behind bars, confiscate their ill-gotten gains, and show them how much better FIDESZ is in solving real problems, that would send a strong message. Try it.
I’m a small ‘c’ conservative and you a communist
DD
justasking at April 29, 2011 11:13 PM
—
Well, in Sweden I am considered a Conservative with a capital C and what they would regard you, we leave for the collective imagination…
@Name that Street:
Nope, it would send that message that the postcommunist networks, which manifest themselves as MSZP-SZDSZ in a political form, wouldn’t be cleaned up. They are going to be.
If you had read more carefully then you would have seen that I didn’t say this is what would bring MSZP gang to its knees.
BTW, you might have missed Gyurcsány’s scared Facebook message yesterday night.
@Viking,
“Well, in Sweden I am considered a Conservative with a capital C…”
Yeah well, what can you expect from a country who eats jam with their meatballs…jam, with meat… for God’s sake!
jam, with meat… for God’s sake!
justasking at April 30, 2011 3:44 PM
—
It is *not* jam
It is *lingonberries*, specially made not to be ‘jam’
And it should be brown cream-sauce to the balls also, and some people have pickled sliced cucumber on the side also
.
This dish was imported by Karl XII (Carolus Rex/Demirbaş Şarl) from Turkey after he had been living in exile there for some time
.
The Hungarian variant is for me the ‘fasirt’, which I think is wrongly being translated into ‘meatloaf’ in English
The translation should of course be ‘Swedish Meat Balls (with some added taste)’
@justasking:
Ikea store canteens make a point of keeping that stuff on the menu and there are always people who try it… once and then never again.
@Viking,
‘fasirt’ is like a homemade hamburger patty…only without the bun.
Still, meatballs with globs of cream sauce on it, and a side of ‘lingonberries’ in a jelly type sauce…similar to the North American cranberry sauce.
Nummy!!! Sounds and looks like a dog breakfast on a plate.
@Leto,
D
“Ikea store canteens make a point of keeping that stuff on the menu and there are always people who try it… ”
Yes, I know…we have a huge IKEA store, not 5 minutes from my home. My kids like the meatballs in gravy…hey, their 4 and 6! I just make sure that they don’t put that jelly stuff of the plate with it.
It’s not like I ‘hang out’ at IKEA, but, I do make a point of getting things for the kids rooms there..the flower and bugs shaped wall mounted lights, that kind of stuff.
The off time I do eat there, I’ll get the shrimp salad open faced sandwich…and wonder what the hell, is up with sticking chopped hard boiled egg on top of it!
Garnish, I suppose
@olga “There you go again, not trusting me”
Not entirely true; I just don’t trust (Zs)index articles a 100%. There were plenty more Gypsies than 7-8 (including the 14 years old) at least 40-50. [Would be good to know what was a young kid doing on the street late at night?]
Their bombastic headline [Over a pool of blood roared the brighter future] is already stupid, trying to connect Jobbik/SZJPE (and their violence!) to this beating.
“why is FIDESZ not putting the vigilantes out of business by providing proper protection to its citizens in these trouble areas?”
You might want to say the government, instead of Fidesz (even though it seems that Hungary is back to the “one-party” system.
Regardless, they don’t have the manpower, despite the boisterous claim of the inauguration of 1800 new police officers; because Pintér elvtárs forgets to add, that at the same time 3000 police officers retired from the force. That’s why in my opinion the government should welcome all the help they can get from SZJPE (and anybody else) who try to make living in rural Hungary safer.
@justasking “Apu thinks I’m not right winged enough.”
I think, I like your Apu
@Double,
“I think, I like your Apu ”
He’s a good man….I have yet to meet someone, who could hold a candle to him.
@Viking “in Sweden I am considered a Conservative with a capital C”
Ilya, if you are a Conservative with a capital C than I think the Swedish Communist would call Stalin, Mao, Pol-Pot, Rákosi etc. a bunch of right-wing nut.
@justasking “He’s a good man”
No doubt in my mind about that.
@Double,
DD
Thanks for that…you’re such a softy!
We better not let Bystander see this side of you.
Now snap out of it and get back to being the asshole Nazi he thinks you are
@ Double
I was translating the article, and while I wasn’t there, neither were you.
I don’t think there is anything strange about a 14 year old boy being outside when his village is being threatened, what I find strange is vigilantes being outraged that their targets become violent.
Perhaps you can tell me who benefited in Gyongyospata by this insane circus last week other than the gypsy criminals who were lumped in with the honest gypsies as a persecuted minority.
If you are correct about the attrition rate with the police, it sounds like good news as I
listened to the video about 2 elderly women in one of the villages stating how “useless” the police was, so hopefully the new recruits will be carefully screened, more qualified and better trained and of course the country needs to hire more police than the ones who retired. Sounds like that is the gov’t's undertaking to combat violence in the troubled areas.
No matter which way you look at it, as far as I know there,is no Democratic country in the world that has a paramilitary group attached to one elected party – if there is one, please post the info so I can read about it.
BTW, if Pinter “elvtars” has now joined the Communists, then Hungary’s Parliament consists of 83% Communists and 17% neo-Nazis representing them. I don’t want to twist nor misrepresent the message of your posting, so please clarify what that comment meant.
@ JA with cc to Double
Re: “you’re such a softy! ”
Excuse me while I throw up.
@olga “his village is being threatened”
By whom? Four drunks?
“gypsy criminals who were lumped in with the honest gypsies”
Aren’t you being a bit of Ilya’s sister here?
“paramilitary group”
Ilya’s propaganda machine is in overdrive again?
Pintér Sándor elvtárs: He was an enthusiastic member of MSZMP and ex-business partner and friend of “szemkilövető” Gergényi Péter.
@justasking “you’re such a softy”
Yes, I know. That’s why I feel about animals, children and old people the way I feel.
No mercy for teenagers and JDL minded people though
@Olga,
DD
“Excuse me while I…’
Oh, suck up it up you closet bulimic!!!
You’re just jealous, that I and I alone, at one time or another, have been called a ‘ribanc’ by the right and a Bolshevik whore by the left…gaining me the reputation of site whore.
And you simply known as a Jewish one…sucks to be you !!!!
@Double,
DD
Shit!!! I wanted to have the 50th post…
“Yes, I know….”
Who’s Mommies little pookie bear!
Apu thinks I’m not right winged enough.”
He’s a good man….I have yet to meet someone, who could hold a candle to him.
Many fathers are – you just can’t recognize them. I’m just curious, what is his visible contribution to present-day Hungary?
That’s why I feel about animals, children and old people the way I feel.
DoubleH63 at May 1, 2011 2:11 AM
You left out Nazis. Bw, I haven’t seen anyone here who thinks like the JDL.
@George,
” I’m just curious, what is his visible contribution to present-day Hungary?”
What does it matter?
@Curious George “I haven’t seen anyone here who thinks like the JDL.”
Maybe you just didn’t look hard enough
“What does it matter?”
justasking at May 1, 2011 9:12 AM
Just curious if he reinforces my observation about many vocal right-wingers.
Maybe you just didn’t look hard enough
DoubleH63 at May 1, 2011 9:53 AM
Well, I just don’t have the kind of x-ray vision (or is it j-ray vision) that you have
@George,
“Just curious if he reinforces my observation about many vocal right-wingers”
Let me just say this about my step-Father….he would just look at you and not say a word. And that one look, would say it all…
He would then, comment on the weather…and when Apu talks to you about the weather…you’re not worth his time.
@JA – Yes, talking about the weather would be a good way to change the topic away from visible contributions.
@George,
” Yes, talking about the weather would be a good way to change the topic away from visible contributions”
Only you, could be stupid enough to come up with such a ridiculous comment after you have been dismissed for not being worth a persons time of day.
Dude…quite while you’re ahead…he’s more of a man then you’ll ever be.
@George,
Oh, and before you try and come up with some imaginary ‘brilliant’ retort…realise I’m laughing at you and not with you…
Please I beg of you…I know you’re arrogant and pompous…but, stupid?
Please, i beg of you…don’t disappoint me.
Whoops…I meant to only include 1 ‘please I beg of you’ typo!!!
@JA – since you’re waiting eagerly in anticipation, I’ll try my best not to disappoint keep you RFLOL.
)
The reason I’m interested in “visible contribution” is because much of what I’ve done here is not really “visible”. Helping kids with stuff they need to learn is good, but I can’t really claim any direct credit for having their success attributed to me.
No, I’ve always said visible contribution because because I have seen my mom’s contribution here (attributed to her) in 3 places, which is more than what I can say for myself. Hence, my interest in knowing if he has some similar contribution, you know, being so much more of a man, right-wing & all. More than anything, I can understand that one look from your Apu (of embarrassment?) that you spoke about, and the need to talk about the weather
@ Double
Re: “his village is being threatened” By whom? Four drunks?”
I shall be patient and polite – no, not the 4 drunks, for details read the Gyongyospata coverage by the Hungarian or the International press not connected to ultra right-wing publications
Re” “gypsy criminals who were lumped in with the honest gypsies” –
are you implying that all the gypsies are criminals? Try to remember the Vona speech about his “brothers and sisters”?
Equally nauseating as reading your “softie” status; btw, all the articles reporting the persecution of the Roma fail to mention the criminals amongst them so they do get the same victim status as Vona’s dearly beloved “siblings”
Re: “ Pintér Sándor elvtárs: He was an enthusiastic member of MSZMP and ex-business partner and friend etc . “
I didn’t know Pinter’s background but according to wiki , he was “ the Interior Minister in Orbán’s first cabinet, Chief of the BP police in 1991, & Chief of the National Police from 1991 -1996,” Sounds like he was given his portfolio because of his police background and obviously it is the Interior Minister’s job to deal with the self appointed peacekeepers (word ok?) There was no mention of his being a member of a different political party nor a list of his friends and acquaintances,the weddings he attended nor his favourite restaurant
You failed to answer how many MG type organizations (ok with that term?) benefited
cont.
@ Double (cont)
and continued to benefit the Hungarians in Gyongyospata – I also wonder how the vulnerable Hungarians are doing in Borsod county and how their lives have improved since Circus Vona breathed through the area.
As far as I can see, there is no human being in this world who would meet with your approval to get rid of JOBBIK’s private xxxxxxx (fill in a word that’s pleasing to your ears) so it matters not who the government appoints for the job
@olga:
Pintér joined the police in 1972 and he was a senior police officer already in the dictatorship.
He joined the state party. http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pintér_Sándor_(rendőrtiszt)
I’m not happy about it either and I don’t fancy Pintér. I don’t think anyone would, even amongst hardcore Fidesz-supporters. Orbán said: “an interior minister doesn’t need to be popular, he must be able to his job”.
to do his job
@ Leto
I already mentioned I have no idea about his background but policing is obviously in the Interior Minister’s portfolio.
Moreover, whoever is given the task of getting rid of vigilantes will be a FIDESZ politician and s/he will be the Interior Minister
IMHO if FIDESZ could appoint the Saint of Public Safety (maybe there is one, I am not up to date on various Saints) Double would still object because it’s not about Pinter or FIDESZ or Communists it’s about getting rid of the MG and its various new names and the Vedero group – ironic that Vona and Vedero are slinging mud at each other yet die hard private militia supporters on this website don’t seem to have divided loyalties which to seems very strange indeed.
BTW, if you wanted to play the Devil’s advocate who exactly benefited by the Easter weekend Gyongyospata fiasco? ( aside from the freelance journalists and maybe the women and children who got away for the weekend)
@George,
“Hence, my interest in knowing if he has some similar contribution, you know, being so much more of a man, right-wing & all”
To me, what makes a man is not WHAT he does; but, HOW he does it. Religious and political views are irrelevant.
Looking and having the physical equipment that makes you male, does not necessarily guarantee that you will ever become a man.
—————-
” I can understand that one look… (of embarrassment?)”
No, a look like that from him, means he thinks your an idiot and does not see the point in stating the obvious.
Embarrassment is something he rarely experiences, because he tends to think long and hard before he speaks and or reacts.
Now, enough about my Dad…back to politics.hu
@olga:
It’s the very nature of the far-right groups to sling mud at each other (and others), also to fragment. Nothing new there.
Who benefited from the Easter weekend Gyongyospata fiasco? Not sure… I doubt Jobbik did really. LMP and MSZP didn’t.
For the time being at least, it seems the government got away with less damage than I had expected. Not quite sure again why. The massive police deployment cannot be the real reason. I’m thinking of these factors: this event wasn’t so professionally organized like the Zámoly scandal during the first Orbán-government and also “you cannot step into the very same river twice”. Besides the involvement of the US embassy was becoming embarrassing.
However I’m sure the story hasn’t ended yet.
I look forward to the results of the investigations, also by the authorities and the fact-finding committee of the Parliament.
Anyway, here’s an (old) Budapest Analysis article on Jobbik: http://www.budapestanalyses.hu/docs/En/Analyses_Archive/analysys_221_en.html
Hope you didn’t miss “The re-evaluation of the Roma policy in Hungary”: http://www.budapestanalyses.hu/docs/En/Analyses_Archive/analysys_216_en.html
@JA – well he would be embarrassed if that ‘giant’ of a man (I presume he still has the equipment) saw that a little old lady from a “third world country” had created a more visible & lasting contribution for Hungarians than anything he has done. At least we know why he’d rather keep his mouth shut (probably thinking about who the real idiot is – hint: it’s not me or even him). I’m not in the least bit embarrassed or concerned about what a single ‘daddy’s girl’ on a message board thinks of what makes a man. Contrary to what wrote, I don’t feel threatened by women or their views. The women in my family are generally quite independent & accomplished, & I am proud of all of them (my other niece, the sister of one who married that Russian/Khyrghyz dude, graduates from Harvard grad school in 3 weeks – she’s also a reserve officer in the US army & an engineer). Their views count for more than any idiotic & racist women posters here.
Yeah, enough about your dad, his right-wing views & candles. Let’s get back to politics.
@George,
” well he would be embarrassed if that ‘giant’ of a man (I presume he still has the equipment) saw that a little old lady from a “third world country” had created a more visible & lasting contribution for Hungarians than anything he has done”
Are you serious? “My Mommies better than your Daddy? How old are you?
If anything, you just confirmed to everybody on this site how you have the equipment and have yet to become a man.
Congratulations George…I can now add ‘fool’ to your arrogant, pompous and stupid ass.
Well done old chap!!!!!
@JA – No, it just substantiates my observation that right-wing idiots (& the people who push that view) can usually be shown to be more full of hot air than actually delivering substance.
And, you’re welcome.
@George,
Seriously George, I think you’re loosing it and now, starting to worry me.
What does my Fathers political views, have to do with something you clearly know nothing about… what it’s like to be a man?
Are you drunk?…. High?… Touched in the head?…All of the above?
@JA – You were the one blowing your father’s personal & political trumpet here. I merely asked if it was all hot air, when you decided to get all huffy & personal. Anyway, what me worry? – it’s exactly what I expected a right winger would do. Anyway, we got our answer about that bright candle, eh?
@George,
“You were the one blowing your father’s personal & political trumpet here.I merely asked if it was all hot air, when you decided to get all huffy & personal”
No, I made an innocent comment to another poster, and you decided to jump in and try and make it into something sored.
How was I to know, that you have some deep seeded psychological issues when it comes to the men, and my comment would trigger of such a response?
———–
“Anyway, we got our answer about that bright candle, eh?”
What?…that even your own Mother is more of a man then you are?
“that you have some deep seeded psychological issues when it comes to the men, and my comment would trigger of such a response?”
justasking at May 1, 2011 11:05 PM
Only in your mind. My comments were more to show the emptiness of you & your dad’s right-wing grandstanding. Let’s see if your upcoming business venture is any different.
@ Leto
Thanks for those links, – the Roma article from “Budapest Analyses” was downright depressing, the conclusion “doom and gloom” and since it was written, the situation has become a lot worse.
Thanks for those links, – the Roma article from “Budapest Analyses” was downright depressing, the conclusion “doom and gloom” and since it was written, the situation has become a lot worse.
olga at May 2, 2011 2:14 PM
—
The problem is that was partisan piece written to make Fidesz look good:
“It was the FIDESZ which has – for the first time in Europe – delegated a representative of Roma origin to the European Parliament”
-
This is an outright lie and easy to see through:
“Juan de Dios Ramírez Heredia (29 July 1942 – ) is a Spanish politician, of Romani ethnic origin. He is a member of the Spanish Socialist Workers’ Party. In 1986-1999 he was a Member of the European Parliament”
Given the fact that Hungary joined the EU first 2004, it is then impossible that Fidesz was first to assign a Roma MEP
-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_de_Dios_Ram%C3%ADrez_Heredia
-
Just a simple reality check on the material ‘leto’ spreads around. That material has a tendency to be a bit ‘light-headed’ with facts