Yesterday’s big pro-government rally seemed to have gone off without any notable incidents, thus living up – at least superficially – to its billing as a “Peace March for Hungary.”
At the same time, it presented a couple of truly striking ironies, or at least nagging questions.
Among the questions I won’t bother spending much time with is how many people showed up. The organizer claimed a million and the interior ministry 400,000, while most independent media reports I’ve seen pegged it at around 100,000. (And, oddly, state newswire MTI had it at “tens of thousands” in its early dispatches.) But any way you slice it, from what I saw outside my window (above), there were enough participants to make it a smashing success, if not a genuine “Million Magyar March.”
So the first question is why, amid some very clear indications that the government’s popularity is suffering, a pro-government rally is able to draw a crowd that is as big or bigger than the anti-government protests we’ve recently seen. Both the greens (LMP) and the reds (MSZP) should be seriously red-faced today, as they are either losing the argument, the organizational “ground war,” or both. Same for anyone who claims the government lacks a significant popular mandate.
That said, it’s ironic to the extreme that what is likely to have been the biggest pro-government demonstration since the system change wasn’t officially sanctioned by the government. Did Prime Minister Viktor Orbán bow out of making a speech – a thing he clearly lives for – because he was afraid that if he were the Featured Event fewer people would come? Or was the whole thing designed to make the government look even more popular than it is, by demonstrating that it doesn’t even need to show up to its own demonstration to draw a big crowd? I’m sure there are plenty of precedents for such “unofficial official” demonstrations, and I’m equally sure the party was helping behind the scenes, but it’s still pretty weird.
One answer to all this is that a non-governmental pro-governmental demonstration offered a better opportunity to give supporters some “red meat” to chew over without it seeming officially sanctioned. Supporting this theory is the fact that the primary face of the rally was newspaper columnist Zsolt Bayer, who has been known to really push the envelope in terms of Jew-baiting while apparently staying in Orbán’s good graces.
If the plan was to have Bayer preside over a “play pogrom” that would excite the uglier bits of the base without leading to further international condemnation it was successful beyond measure. Because not only was the turnout phenomenal, the foreign press seems to have totally glossed over this rather obvious and, to the typical mainstream media type, irresistible story line.
For example, the BBC’s web report on the event called it a “peaceful rally” and a “massive show of support” for Orbán and his government, and identified Bayer only as “a well-known newspaper columnist.” Likewise for the Associated Press, whose version of the story was used by the Washington Post and presumably many other major media outlets in the US, and ID’d Bayer as “a journalist who helped organize the march.” Bloomberg’s online report did point out that Bayer was a founding member of Fidesz. Still, you’d think one of them might have considered it worth mentioning that the guy fronting the march got into a big dustup last year for a column in which he referred to a someone as “stinking excrement called something like Cohen.”
Especially, you know, given that it was a torch-lit march.
On the other hand, if the thing was set up so the ugly unwashed could get their ya-yas out without tarring the government, what to make of the fact that it wasn’t at all ugly?
What all this means going forward I have no idea, though I must say I could get used to the whole idea of political events without politicians, and not only in Hungary.
Questioning the intentions of Zsolt Bayer, winner of the Madach Prize would be like questioning the writing skills of our dear president Schmitt, or the political greatness of our great leader Orban. It’s about time that Hungarian people stop to question the powers that be, and start to have faith in our glorious leaders.
PS: I have spent yesterday the whole day counting, and I counted 2,224.671 legs and 472 wheelchairs, so that makes a total of 1,112,807 participants in this glorious march for peace.
The artistry is in the details; 2,224,670+1 legs! Can we cross check with the number of crutches?
Erik D’Amato,
Please don’t try to downplay the significance of this march, the fact is that there were over 400,000 people supporting the government and defending the sovereignty of Hungary. The protest at the Opera House 2 weeks ago could only muster 30,000 at most. Looks like the left-wing could not raise as much, which supports the fact that a larger number of Hungarians support the government. BTW, we even had Poland and Lithuania supporting us with protests. The leftist protest at the Opera house had no one supporting it externally except for the globalist media and EU. Cheers!
It was a GREEEEEAT MARCH!!!
No questions about it!
Most importantly, from now on all the movers and shakers of the EU and the IMF will go to the corner cowering, because the overwhelming greatness of this Glorious Nation just proved invincible…
Or else.
However, I’m pretty sure, that right from Monday the prices will go down, the gasoline will come free of charge, the price of food will be reasonable low – even the Roma children will have enough for breakfast – everyone gonna have a job, the taxes will be based on justifiable need, and culture will have at least as much respect than soccer (whatever it may be).
You see, it worth it!
What a great achievement!
- Do you really think, that it will have any effect on the life of the people of Hungary?
-Do you really think, that it will achieve anything more, that it already happened – people walked on the streets of Budapest, from point A to point B?
You have walked to demonstrate your unconditional devotion, to ensure the rule of Mr.Orban over your life, money and blood, what you offered willingly to a person.
At the same time, the conditions regarding Hungary hasn’t changed a single bit, the inadequate government keep screwing up every single aspect of your life, the president just as fake as he ever been – so, you just keep marching and bragging about a numbers, which proves only one thing: Hungary is a land of four-hundred thousand masochist.
I strongly recommend, that next time you should go around whipping yourselves while chanting: “Victor is our God! Victor is our God..”
Have a nice – and a very long – march!
Hungary is drifting further away from EU. Well, if that’s what its people want EU/IMF should act accordingly.
Majmune jedan.
@Free Hungarian Voice.
I have seen both of the marches, with my own eyes. I believe, that the at left-wings protest their were somewhat less people, but both of them where close to 100000.
Left-wing only had 30,000 tops….nice try
@ Erik D’Amato
I believe that in this article you clearly revealed that your deep-seated biases disqualify as a reliable journalist. Whatever respect I still had for you, it is gone. I am sure you will not loose sleep over this, but it does not her for you to know.
To call this march a ‘play pogrom’ and mention it on the same page with hatred against Jews is disgusting and outrageous. You should be ashamed of yourself, which I am sure will not happen.
I am finished with you and with your website.
Uh, this was an *opinion* article. And I didn’t call the march a “play pogrom.”
I would have thought that you read your writing before publishing it:
“If the plan was to have Bayer preside over a “play pogrom” that would excite the uglier bits of the base without leading to further international condemnation it was successful beyond measure.”
Uh… missed that bit in this article…
Eric, so what was “successful beyond measure”? What did you mean by “play pogrom”?
Could you elaborate on this sentence of yours?
Then who did? I appreciate that you’re speculating over the intentions behind the march, but it’s not clear that those speculations are not yours.
In any case, given the ‘anti-colonization’ placards, and belief of Hungarian anti-s m t s that I*r**l plans to occupy the Capathian basin – it seems a fair assumption.
It seems plain wrong. I thought you wouldn’t start playing the “anti-Semite” card.
It’s not a card, nor a game. It’s a fact. You may not be prejudiced in this way but most Hungarians are. Even the sainted Farkas Laszlo once ‘fessed up to not liking them. I don’t have a problem with Hungarians having a prejudice against the first monotheists, or with travelling folk. They don’t have a monopoly on this or other prejudices. But continually pussy footing around the fact, doesn’t make communication any easier. In the context of Hungarian politics as I understand it – and certainly as Zsolt Bayer plays it – the phrases “international leftist”, “international finance” and “colonisation” do carry an antis*mitic connotation. It’s dishonest or naive to claim otherwise.
Oh pfff. If Bayer isn’t an anti-Semite then Gheorghe Funar or Ján Slota aren’t anti-Hungarians. Now, as far as I am concerned they are all free to be what they are. But don’t tell me I can’t call a spade a spade.
@Sophist:
It’s definitely a trump card. Still. And it has been a strong one. However, luckily, it’s been loosing its strength … at least in Hungary.
This article describes very well how this goes:
“Despite Fidesz establishing a Holocaust memorial day in 2000, these slurs stick. I know many intelligent, educated, worldly Hungarians (some Jewish, some not) who fell for it. Ten years ago I had a Hungarian visitor who saw a book about Fidesz on my desk and commented that she had liked them but that they were now “too right-wing and anti-Semitic”. I hadn’t been to Hungary for a while and was out of touch. So I asked her if she could give me an example of any anti-Semitic actions by Orbán? No. Could she give me an example of any anti-Semitic remarks by Orbán? No. So why, I asked, did she think he was anti-Semitic? “Come on, don’t be so naive. You don’t have to do anything or say anything anti-Semitic to be anti-Semitic.”
-http://www.standpointmag.co.uk/features-march-11-a-hungarian-democrat-takes-on-the-old-guard-tibor-fischer-viktor-orban-fidesz
olga and justasking: I recommend you reading this article.
@Leto,
Thanks for the link to that article….interesting.
After reading it, I went back again to see who the author was, and realized …I have one of his books!!!…’The Thought Gang’!
I haven’t read it yet (another 5 before it), but who knows? Might bump it to the top after I finish Hitch 22.
Again, thanks.
@Sophist,
“Even the sainted Farkas Laszlo”
I never knew you had claws?
Exactly, there is a problem with your ‘opinion’. You have indeed called the demonstration a ‘play pogrom’, perhaps hoping that Western media will pick up on your ‘expert opinion’. Expert, as in starting a smear campaign.
Could you please explain what aspects of the demonstrations were a ‘play pogrom’? These are heavy accusations. You better be prepared to explain yourself. Other people here already asked you for an explanation, you simply ignored them. I hope this was only a temporary delay. As I said, these are seriouse accusations …
Let me say again I’m also waiting for your explanation, Eric. I hope you’ve got a satisfactory one.
Leto says:
January 25, 2012 at 12:05 pm
I hope you’ve got a satisfactory one.
—
..otherwise I will throw the Fidesz Media Council on you!
No explanation so far. Only silence.
Mr. D’Amato,
Please, explain your accusations that the January 21 march was a ‘play pogrom’.
I understand that you have rights as a journalist, but your readers also have right. As I said before, these are seriouse accusations and your readers have the right to know in what way did they contribute to a ‘play pogrom’ by participating in the march. Your silence doe not look good on you.
I am still waiting.
Read below on this page.
Thanks, Leto. I missed that.
“I am finished with you and with your website.”
I can’t thank you enough for this, Erik.
Don’t worry, I will leave you to hear only the things you like to her. You know, pigs love to wallow in their own sh*t too.
@GuessWho,
“You know, pigs love to wallow in their own sh*t too”
Actually, they don’t…they do when forced too. Hence the saying ‘even a pig won’t shit where it sleeps’.
Pigs are pretty clean animals when given the proper environment.
Thanks. My apologies to the pigs. They really did not deserve the comparison.
@Eric:
“because he was afraid that if he were the Featured Event fewer people would come?”
Actually it’s just the other way around, there could have been more people. It was a very idiotic thing in the first place on behalf of the organizers to ask him to speak since then it could have been justly said this was “Orbán’s rally”. The other very idiotic thing was that an organizer, Bencsik, announced “one million people”. (However that’s sure there was many more than 100,000!)
Orbán will speak on a rally on the 15th of March and if this international political campaign won’t stop then I’m pretty sure even more people than yesterday will turn up to listen to his speech.
BTW, BBC reported 100,000 and they upped the opposition rally on the 2nd to 70,000 from 30,000. Interesting, isn’t it?
PS: I don’t quite understand what’s wrong with calling a piece of shit as “stinking excrement”. Okay, it was a euphemism but I think that’s fine to do in a newpaper article.
Interesting spin on ‘euphemism’: it doesn’t sound a lot better to me!
That’s simply because your views of journalistic material are not as complex as they should be.
Some things aren’t so complex. There’s nothing complex about that Cohn-Bendit, metaphorically speaking, is a piece of shit. That’s a simple statement and it’s true. For some proof, try watching his confession about small children and his genitals on YouTube.
You can see a pattern in your comments. I think without your pills against your Tourette’s Syndrome you are hating the whole world. You hate…in your words…”fags”, liberals, social democrats, people who do not agree with you in general,the EU, foreigners, the IMF, jews? maybe…do not know would not surprise me though… and so on. People like you don’t have a lot of allies left, like your precious VO government is loosing allies by the day.
Again your only talent is in hate.
It seems that those who support Viktor are better organized, and motivated than those who don’t. The government supporters did a great job of putting together a huge demonstration in a pretty short period of time. Also they had the benefit of very nice weather.
Viktor is one of the great Demagogues of our century. Fortunately his niche is limited to less than 10 Million Hungarians or we’d all be in trouble. What makes him so great is that he has clearly identified his target and their needs which are unique as best.
Although most Hungarians now say they would not vote for FIDESZ again, its going to take years to bring them to task and they can do tons of damage by then.
“his niche is limited to less than 10 Million Hungarians”
You only wish so.
What we are clearly witnessing now is his becoming a leading European political figure.
Thank you for your opinion but it’s plain that it only your opinion. I cannot identify another country with a national pity party like Hungary. Hungary is the only country I know of that can’t move forward for fear of losing track of it’s past. But if you can please let me know. I’ll be back.
Certainly that’s my opinion but it’s definitely not mine alone. I read more and more pieces of news which do support my opinion. It’s plain that you don’t like this but it’s also plain that doesn’t matter at all as for its being true. Mind you I didn’t say he’s already a leading European political figure.
My version of “they say” (appeal to an unknown higher authority) say that he’s a disliked would
) you’ve been reading that lead you to this conclusion. I’d like to read them, too.
be dictator. It’s pretty obvious the IMF doesn’t trust
him (he has to perform before they will talk to him) and
EU is threatening legal charges against Hungary and they
only gave him 30 days to perform. So tell me what besides
Viktor’s press releases
I’m not trying to “beat you up” or attack you in any way.
I’d like to understand how you see it.
Perhaps try using some foreign news sources other than those where “he’s a disliked would be dictator”.
You seem to be a big enough boy to find them yourself.
Leto says:
January 22, 2012 at 6:18 pm
What we are clearly witnessing now is his becoming a leading European political figure
—
Sounds very similar logic to when ‘bob’ claimed that ‘Vona is a genius’
So what is the rationale for this statement?
That Hitler was “a leading European political figure”?
The right question, European people will have to ask themselves – someone we want to follow or someone we want to get rid off?
Given the success so far of the Orbán Regime, the answer is rather simple, the latter
A loser is still a loser, even if well-known
Du är en idiot. Kom hem.
@Popular:
I couldn’t agree more.
Hungary, in spirit is NOT a european country at all. Please leave the EU. Trade with Belarus, find out your own future without IMF support. Good luck.
Paul: How do you think you can decide that an European country is not European? I think maybe you are not European. You should show more respect towards a country which suffered so much under oppression in the past and whose people fought and are still fighting so hard for their freedom and democratic values.
@Z …well Hungary is NOT ONLY one country suffered in the past, in central europe. But in non of those contries are seen such things as in Hungary.I would like to support all normaly Magyars in Orbanistan, but .. where are they? I don´t see them. Hungary is really getting in international isolation. But .. who´s fault is that? Assaults all your neighoburs with some stupid dreamings about Great Hungary, double citizenship law, which harmed souverenity of your neighbours … You should grow up. We are living in 21.st century.Nobody want´s to leave Hugnary EU, but you must clean your own mess !!!
andy: The EU does not want to let us “clean our mess”, because it is interfering with our internal affairs, wanting to force us to change our constitution. It also tries to demonize our elected PM and government and to create a hysteria about Hungary, which ruins the market’s trust in Hungary. Therefore they are forcing us to take out a loan from the IMF under very bad conditions. The EU essentially want to remove our elected PM and government, and for this end they are blackmailing Hungary and excerting a pressure on us.
Z.: Fair enough, point taken. I am a believer in the european values. Which means tolerance towards minorities, gays etc. They are human beings deserving a future. My wife is from Hungary, my family is over there and I am worried!!
With the situation being like it is, it is not enough to talk about the past and the opression. Time for the Hungarian people to jump over their shadow. I sincerely love Hungary but there is no future in this country, because of the hate, the incompetent government and the apathy among the majority.
Paul: I think the current government does not do any harm to ethnic minorities, so I don’t think you have any reason to worry about this. What is more, the new election system gives opportinity for ethnic minorities to be represented in the Hungarian Parlaiment for the first time.
The governing Fidesz party has more Roma members, one of whom is also a member of the European Parlaiment. This roma EP together with Fidesz worked out the Roma strategy for Europe which was submitted to and accepted by the European Parlaiment in the time when Hungary took the rotating presidency of the European Parlaiment. Working out this Roma strategy for Europe was actually one of the main goals of Hungary during its taking the rotating presidency of the European Parlaiment. Roma people also participated in the Peace March for Hungary in support of the government yesterday.
As to giving Hungarian citizenship to Hungarians living outside Hungary, it is a common practice among EU-countries, many of them also give citizenship to their national living in other countries. Do you think that Hungarian ethnic minorities are inferior to any other ethnic minorities and they must not enjoy the same rights as other ethnic minoroties in Europe?
Paul: Check out this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynFOuLmmR4w&feature=email&email=comment_reply_received
And this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYIEywYlECI
So….huge numbers of the Hungarian population do not support EU values. And than what. Leaving the EU is an option, do not ask for EU subsidies, IMF support, and be happy.
GuessWho: I absolutely agree with you.
The Hungarian right (and left, for that matter) never learns from the past. Even Bethlen in the 1920s knew that Hungary wouldn’t stand a chance of reaching its goals (notably reversing Trianon) by going it alone without backing from western Europe. And Bethlen was a lot like Orbán today: an authoritarian with no respect for democracy.
@Z”Therefore they are forcing us to take out a loan from the IMF under very bad conditions.”
I don´t get it. How they force you to get loan? I thought, that it is Hungary who is asking for money, right? And about the conditions how they will borrow their money .. Well, that is how it is world going for, at least 2000 years. So, please pay your debts, stop playing those embarrassing, nationalistic games..
Amazing, isn’t it? This mess is everybody’s fault but Hungary’s.
The way how they force us, is that they are accusing us of being “anti-democratic”, and create a hysteria about Hungary. As a result, the market looses its trust in Hungary, the forint weekens and investors percieve Hungary as a risky place. As a result we have to take out a loan from the IMF. I am not saying that all the reasons for the problem are external, but they just try to make our situation even worse than it would be otherwise. It is because they do not like our current government’s policies and they want to make him unpopular in Hungary, so that he looses power.
Exactly. It’s very much like a typical story of a restaurant owner who is offered protection from “bad guys out there” by heavily tattooed and very muscular “businessmen”.
So, why are these ““bad guys out there” by heavily tattooed and very muscular “businessmen”” only concerned about Hungary?
What is wrong with Sweden or the Czech Republic, who also are outside the Euro. Why are no ““bad guys out there” by heavily tattooed and very muscular “businessmen”” interested in those two countries, even if they are so much richer than poor Hungary?
Your analogy limps, the n why would anyone be interested in a sleazy back-street joint, when there are independent fancy restaurants on the glittering Main Street available, ‘screaming for Protection’?
@ Leto
re: “Some things aren’t so complex. There’s nothing complex about that Cohn-Bendit, metaphorically speaking, is a piece of shit.”
Whatever people want to call him is fine (I prefer one word as in pervert) but if his actions and his race/religion were mentioned by Bayer, there is a problem.
No one in his/her right mind would brand Priests as perverts and child molesters because of the scandals since their religion had nothing to do with their crimes.
According to the Canadian papers, there were 100,000 at the march but they picked up the story from International papers. I don’t like to argue but Feher Gyorgy exaggerated and overestimated the crowd by 4. I also counted.
@olga:
“No one in his/her right mind would brand Priests as perverts and child molesters”
Well, I’ve already seen quite a few people like that on this site, too. I’m not saying they are in their right mind, however exactly this is not a uncommon theme on the net.
Anyway, I think we agreed earlier that this Cohn-Bendit is a piece of stinking excrement indeed.
As for the head count, I think the crowd was definitely much bigger than 100,000 strong. I popped out from the march at Octogon and I could see neither the end or the beginning of the crowd. When we arrived, people ahead were asked continuously to leave Kossuth square and go home so that others could arrive at the square.
Anyway, try reading this article about the aftermath in the foreign press: -http://mno.hu/ahirtvhirei/elhallgatjak-hogy-mi-tortent-budapesten-1045335
The anti-government demos are being beefed up, the pro-government rally is being played down. A few hundred people demonstrated against the president and that got similar coverage.
@olga:
I read this morning that Kossuth square was already full but the end of the march still walked at Octogon. This may not tell you much now but check Google Maps..
Erik,
Shouldn’t there be some mention of the huge numbers of buses parked everywhere in the vicinity of the march? There were even lots of unmarked white buses parked along the route of the march itself, where ordinary people couldn’t park. Fidesz can afford to bus their supporters in from all over the country, unlike the groups that organized the free-speech and anti-constitution demonstrations.
HirTV, pro-Fidesz, had a piece that showed that a few white mini-buses being filled up with protesters from Nagyvarad (today’s Romania)
This is something Fidesz takes pride in doing and actually nothing wrong in that. Historically this has been the thing in Hungary, you go to Budapest to join the big demonstration, than demonstrate locally
At least one of the current pro-Fidesz aliases blasted the anti-Orbán demo on January 2nd for using ‘bused-in demonstrators’, but that is the Hungarian tradition
May say more about that alias not being A Real Hungarian, though
“For example, the BBC’s web report on the event called it a “peaceful rally” and a “massive show of support” for Orbán and his government, and identified Bayer only as “a well-known newspaper columnist.””
The BBC’s man in Budapest, Nick Thorpe, has been closely linked with Fidesz for a long number of years- his Hungarian wife was also a member of the party. Consequently his reports tend to veer towards the Orban direction- so don’t worry, he knows Bayer and knows exactly his views.
I don’t know Thorpe well personally, but this strikes me as false. His/their coverage has certainly not been fawning. And were it all true that he/they are tilting towards Fidesz, I think it would actually be a credit to the Beeb, which too often features coverage that I would consider reflexively left-liberal.
As a Brit with a Hungarian wife and a great love of Hungary as a place, having both worked and lived there, beszelni magyarul et al. I have always thought Nick Thorpe a bit ineffectual and stupid. Just my opinion
Well that’s a different thing than being a Fidesz mouthpiece
Which part did you think was false Erik?
His book “Unfinished Revolution” (never mind the title, which is vintage Orbanspeak) details his views, amongst other things, of the 2006 lies, riots and police over/reaction.
It also speaks of his relationship with and the advice he gave to the young founders of Fidesz (amongst whom would have been included Bayer).
The party today uses him as a respectable conduit to get their point across internationally and quickly when the shit hits the fan and that he willingly does.
Most notable examples were the Gyongyospata case (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13170583) and with regards the closing down of Klubradio (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16315137). Both times, he first parroted the government line before giving the listener any context whatsoever about the underlying events.
Several complaints were made officially to the BBC re his biased coverage of Klubradio, lo and behold 2 days another more detailed and balanced report appeared.
The BBC is funded by the UK taxpayer and that’s why its reporters should endeavour to keep personal opinion out of factual news coverage.
@Biased BBC:
“Several complaints were made”
By yourself?
Thank you ‘genius’.
One way of doing it would be to increase criticism by spreading half truths, raise panic by comparing an elected prime minister to Chaves / Castro / …, write of the country as dictatorship, etc all leading to panic in the market causing problems in bond auctions by the government.
Mr Orban is by far from perfect but at least he was elected while the euro bureaucrats have not.
That’s exactly what’s been happening for a good while.
“at least he was elected while the euro bureaucrats have not”
- And – quite ironically, mind you – they have control to the strings of the purse, what Mr.Orban try to pray open.
Life is full with unjust surprises, isn’t it?
By the way, do you think, that anything would be much different, if the rest of the civilized world would treat Mr.Orban as a statesman, instead of like a bully from the soccer fields?
Do you think, that your life in Hungary would be any better?
If “yes”, could you explain it: why?
I am eager to hear!
Really!
Friedman says:
January 22, 2012 at 10:10 pm
Mr Orban is by far from perfect but at least he was elected while the euro bureaucrats have not
—
Good Argument!
A certain Mr A Hilter was also elected, but that did not improve neither Germany nor Europe did it?
I wish somebody would find out who paid for the buses for this day out in Budapest, never seen so many country bumpkins in a city before. BKV cannot afford the fuel for their buses, but I guess Orban’s lot paid for this lot to come just the same as he paid people to clap at the Parliament the last time. For me, the IMF can’t get here quick enough.
I suggest an IMF-fan like you should move to Bucharest quick enough. I suggest booking a flight, you’d gain quite a few hours compared to travelling by train.
And then you could help the riot police there to keep IMF-unhappy local people at bay.
I am a big supporter of a strong Hungary, meaning that I support democracy, meaning I am highly critical of Orban. While I forcefully oppose much of what he has done, that doesn’t mean that he has genuine supporter. Fidesz IS the most popular party, so I agree with Erik D’Amato that LMP and the other opposition parties should be “red-faced.”
Yeah, maybe some people were bused in. Then why shouldn’t the opposition do the same? I’m tired of people criticizing Orban only on blogs- they should get out into the street. The opposition has something to learn from Orban, especially his ability to drape himself in Hungarianness.
I FEEL (I’m using a completely subjective word, folks) more patriotic about Hungary than Orban (again, I’m speaking from my personal perspective). Hungary should be big enough to encompass every religion of its citizens. Hungary should be big enough to include LMP, MSZP and FIDESZ supporters. Good for Fidesz to bring so many people for a rally. I hope the people who want a more inclusive version of Hungary can get more people, and I challenge people who don’t like the situation to make this happen.
The tragedy of this country (and of course there’s nothing new about this) is that the gulf between left and right is so huge that it prevents Hungarians from even so much as agreeing to disagree. Thus Hungary will never set foot on a common path to prosperity but will always struggle to scrape by while fighting its neighbor over ethnic Hungarians, brooding over Trianon and its “glorious” past. Now more than ever this is conspicuous. People like me were hopeful in 2010 (even though I didn’t vote Fidesz) that after 8 years of devastation, Orbán will have the wisdom and prudence to graciously step over his enemies and start building a new society based on principle that unite us rather divide. In a country so polarized, you can’t start building a society on a solid foundation without offering concessions to your political enemies. Instead, Orbán thought he can just wipe out everything and everyone linked to what he’s called Hungary’s post-communist past 20 years and shape Hungary into his own party’s Christian nationalistic image, thereby making himself the equal of his communist enemies he detests so much. That can work as long as he is in power, but it will come back to haunt him eventually. And thus Hungary’s future comes to a full circle.
“Hungary should be big enough to include LMP, MSZP and FIDESZ supporters. ”
No, let’s just take MSZP out from that list. MSZP delenda est.
However an acceptable and credible center-of-left party is badly needed in Hungary. It seems LMP won’t be that and there isn’t any sign when and where from such a political party would emerge.
“..Good for Fidesz to bring so many people for a rally.”
As it seems, pretty much they will be in a permanent state of rallying on the streets, thank to Mr.Orban’s FIDESZ, and the brainless pursuit of an economic utopia!
In other places they called “homeless”..!
God Bless our Great Leader!
Screw EU/IMF bankers and their lackies
Again, who asks you to stay within the EU. Just go. you do not belong in the EU at all.
@Paul, you are right. I don´t understand either. O.K. Brussel is dictacting to us something, trying to cut off our souverenity (ha,ha,ha …) o.k. let´s start negotiation about possibility how to leave EU. And then you can burn EU flag daily. We don´t want to dance as IMF sing, o.k. le´t borrow money from somebody else. Russia, China .. probably will help. But, for God sake.. what far is that theatre??? !!! Hungary remains me hysterical woman.Just annoying everybody around …
Actually it’s your kind who reminds one strongly of a hysterical woman or child.
(Ah, dear me, you’re even a hülye tótocska on top of being this type!)
Christianity and the Holy Crown in the Constitution? Ya-ya, ya… feudalism! Marriage defined like it should be, that is not a relationship of two identically sexed people? Ya-ya, ya… Dark Ages! And so on..
First of all: yes ,the turnout at the pro-government
demo was surely impressive and as such a success for
VO.
There is no doubt about it.
The question however is why people attended this demo?
What did they support?Or what not?
I can tell you because I was there. People are absolutely pissed off with the hysteria campaign waged against Hungary and Orbán in person.
“What did they support?Or what not?”
They certainly did not support people like you.
Igazi Magyar. So how are you and your big mouth any different from the rest of us? Stuffing yourself with langos with crumbs all over the carpet and slurping palinka, saluting the flag and the holy crown: God bless the welfare state and all that sail in her. Egészségére!
BTW. You sound like a closet Orbaniszta to me. I could be wrong.
And you sound like a closet büdöskomcsi to me. I could be wrong.
That’s really funny to think that I’m a closet Orbaniszta. But it would be great to make langos with Orban’s face on it and a big tilos symbol made out of paprikas. Maybe “nem tetszik a rendszer” brand palinka? How about “Orban can suck this”-brand kolbasz?
You are!
Lángos doesn’t crumble.;-)
And we are pissed of with a dictator in the heart of Europe. Go…leave,,,do not ask for EU/IMF money…just leave the EU. Everyone will be happy.coal olnsgin
Mr. Orbán is a democratically elected, popular (have you seen pictures about the demo two days ago?
) Prime Minister of a democratic country. Consequently anyone who calls him a dictator is a mentally challenged (and very frustrated! 
) postcommie/left-lib idiot.
BTW, who is that “we”? How many are there of you?
“BTW, who is that ‘we’?”
The ‘we’ is the Borg (Star Trek: The Next Generation).
Don’t you remember the line: ‘We are the Borg. Resistence is futile. You will be assimilated’?
I’ve never been a Star Trek fan so I cannot remember that.
However I’m a great fan of Douglas Adams and I remember well when the Vogons shouted “Resistence is futile”.
Consequently anyone who calls him a dictator is a mentally challenged (and very frustrated! ) postcommie/left-lib idiot.
Such a low level of discussing. This attitude is seen a lot in Hungary these days. You obviously can not handle freedom of speech. No tolerane in your system.And proven the fact that you do not have a European spirit.
Yes, I absolutely agree that it’s a really low level of “discussing” when you call Mr. Orbán a dictator who is a popular Prime Minister of a democratic country and who was democratically elected in fair and free elections by a huge majority. So the proven fact is that you’re a mentally challenged and very frustrated postcommie/left-lib idiot.
“So the proven fact is that you’re a mentally challenged and very frustrated postcommie/left-lib idiot.”
And AGAIN you prove my point.Within the whole of Europe there is the mistrust against your government. One messsage towards the EU in English/ a very different message towards people in Hungary. Which is called unreliable. According to you all of those leaders of the EU are idiots, they all see ghosts, because the majority sees Hungary gliding down towards a dictorial intolerant country.Nothing wrong with being liberal or left at all.
By the way, there are millions of them within the EU.
This postcommie/left-lib idiot remark of you means in reality that you are basicly deeply intolerant. And people like you do not belong within the EU.
By the way, why do you ask IMF/EU money if you hate them so much. It is insulting.
You belong to those very typical and very common postcommie/left-lib bad lots who are very tolerant indeed… with anyone who agree with their distorted, false and, most of all, deeply hypocritical views. These have been known as “szadeszkretén” in Hungary since they were abundant in and around a now defunct extremist “liberal” party called SZDSZ (“Szadesz” as a ‘nickname’).
Leto the great democrat and deep thinker managed to write some sentences without the word idiot in it.
What is happening these days. Amazing.
@ Anonymus
“Leto the great democrat and deep thinker managed to write some sentences without the word idiot in it.”
I must say, it is not easy to write something here without the ‘idiot’ in it. Especially not when responding to comments like this …
@Leto
So, to you, being democratically elected and popular means that one cannot possibly be a dictator? What if someone lies to get elected, then changes all the laws to make sure that nobody else can possibly get elected?
I know you’re not so dense to believe that dirty tricks cannot be employed to win elections, and that sometimes dictators and other authoritarians are very popular (see Putin, Lukashenko, and yes, DoubleH63′s favorite mini-mustachioed German). Therefore, you are once again obviously obfuscating and misleading us, and losing whatever credibility you may have once had.
By the way, I don’t call Orbán a dictator; rather he is a dictator-in-waiting. Trying to get the names of everyone who agrees with Paul is a typical authoritarian ploy, used by the communists to compile lists of people to round up and send to re-education camps.
This was probably the biggest rally organised by a civilian group (probably with a little help from the ruling party) since 1956 and turned out to be massive show of support for the government… I guess this caught many on the other side surprised..The Western media, we have seen that in the biased and false reports, well a barrage of unprecedented attacks to be more precise, again tried to downplay the importance of it and came out with ridiculous numbers… I saw „respectable” outlets with rerorts of. tens of thousands or the highest was more than 100,000.
Even BBC, who is regarded as the standard number one for public broadcasting, fell for it. They must have pretty dumb source or they were just blinded by their utmost disgust for the centre right government.. . They said the anti-government demo on Jan.2 drew 70,000.. I said WTF!!
. If you ever been walking on Andrásssy street, you know this is a f… joke. The crowd was between Octogon and Opera… That is one stop with the metro. On Saturday the entire lenght of Andrassy boulverad was full of people, this covers some 6-7 metro stops, each one is longer than the Octogon-Opera strech. I Would never have thought that BBC would discredit itself like that..
The real numbers are somewhere between 20-30,000 for the anti-gov. demo and 350-400,000 for this one.. Pretty embarassing for all those news editor who threw their best at Orbán, calling him Putyin of the Puszta and comparing him to Chavez, now being forced to distort the facts yet again as people unexpectedly (for them) turned up in a massive show of sympathy for the government, which of course has done a number of mistakes, made ad hoc decisions and should have fared better if it had taken the advise of some outsiders..
Doktor Kotász says:
January 23, 2012 at 10:09 pm
calling him Putyin of the Puszta and comparing him to Chavez
—
Well, both Mr Put In and Herr Chavez are known to draw a crowd, so using them in the numbers game is maybe not so smart. It will not deflect the fact of Orban having a touch of both these two ‘respected’ leaders
Now 20 years after the change of regime, with 3 million Hungarians living in poverty and another 3 million trying to make months end meet, with half of Hungarians in debt and no savings, with all the major sectors of industries, bank, energy, utility (privatised by MSZP SZDSZ between 1990-2002) in the hands of multinationals and a bunch of former Communistss, ,with 3rd world health statitiscs, with the lowest rate of birht and highest rate of abortions, this is the first government that came to power with the agenda of pulling the country out of the debt trap, revive the economy and defend Hungary’s interests.. Everybody has to chip in and share the burdens… Banks that made HUF 3 trillion in profit int he last ten years, now expect to lose some HUF 0.5 trillion in two years.. So what is all whining for? Tesco had more profit in Hungary, with 10m, than Poland, a country of more than 40 million…. After all the years of tax free status, they now have to pay less than 20% of their profits. Smartly, the government levied the sectoral tax on revenue, so the big companies could not get around it with transfer pricing and other methods to siphon off profits.
The ruling financial elite understandbly liked former communists in all Eastern and Central Eruopean countries, becasue they could strike pretty good deals with them.. Who would not want to do business with serviant people on other side of the negotiationg team putting up assets for sale at bargain price instead of quarelling with some „arrogant nationalist”, who would tax you and make your business less profitable.
Doktor Kotász says:
January 23, 2012 at 10:13 pm
privatised by MSZP SZDSZ between 1990-2002
—
A clear lie, then the majority of privatisations were done in the first free Government, led by MDF (1990-94) and then between 1998 and 2002 Fidesz led the Government, with Orban as PM
MSZP SZDSZ only had the Government between 1994 and 1998 before 2002, only 4 years out of 12
For 8 years were many of the same people in power as today
When you cannot get simple facts straight, the remainder of your arguments does not lift
It was mainly people who today rule Hungary who “sold it out”, then Hungary’s industry was totally inadequate for the Western market and the Western market was the only game in town beginning of the 90s, when the whole old Soviet-controlled market just disappeared in a question of months
Wrong products, old factories that used way to much energy and polluted way too much – that was the state of the Hungarian industry 1990. One year later – no market
What to do, with a country without any money, just debts that the Kadar regime had taken?
You sell what anyone wants to buy, to the price being offered and hope the future will be better
Fairy tales belongs in children-books
so i take from the answers collected sofar.
People attended the demo:
a)because they are against the international criticsmn of hangary and orban.
b)because Hungary believes that orban is doing a great job
c)because Hungary for Hungarians
d)because Hungary believes it can do everything alone and does not need any outside assistance,help,expertise,know how,money etc.etc.
I am impressed
“I am impressed”
Justly so. It’s been a very successful demonstration. Your favourites (MSZP) try to play it down very hard…
And they announced on Monday they’d organize a “big anti-government demonstration soon”. Let’s wait and see how successful it would be compared to this one. 
Who said on January 9, 2012:
You shouldn’t forget that our political family, if it wants, we can put to the streets 10 times more people than they [the opposition] can,” he said. “But we don’t want to. But we don’t think this is the way of having a democratic dialogue, [competing] who can send more people to the streets”
-
???
The answer is:
János Martonyi, the Hungarian foreign minister (Fidesz), in an interview with the Guardian
(-http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jan/09/hungary-ready-to-negotiate)
Though this was a civil demonstration, it’s been announced that Fidesz will also have a rally on the 15th of March where Orbán will speak. I expect it’ll be similarly successful like this one was. Or actually it’ll attract even more people if this vile hysteria campaign would go on.
Obviously time to shuffle away János Martonyi, the Hungarian foreign minister (Fidesz), then he is just not speaking the truth and nothing but the truth
Fidesz cannot have a Minister like that, then Gyurcsány would qualify as Fidesz-minister
Leto says:
January 24, 2012 at 1:12 pm
Fidesz will also have a rally on the 15th of March where Orbán will speak
—
Obviously in the suburbs, given the Central of Budapest will be not allowed to have any party-demonstrations on
(-http://www.politics.hu/20120120/pm-spokesman-says-govt-not-to-engage-in-guessing-game-over-imf-talks-defends-move-to-head-off-opposition-demonstrations/)
Since the opposition is barred from most public spaces on that day, his rally will only highlight how he has gutted the foundations of democracy in Hungary.
“..Fidesz will also have a rally on the 15th of March where Orbán will speak..???”
- Where Orban will read up chapters from the “Hungarian Anecdotes”, then people will hear carefully selected lines of the poems of Petőfi, while paid cheer-leaders dictate the applause, and all the participants are the members of FIDESZ, and those who absent will be prosecuted…
- Gonna be great fun to celebrate, indeed!
Eric your statement puzzles me “Same for anyone who claims the government lacks a significant popular mandate.”
A political mandate is a directive from voters to take a given action. Since most of what Fidesz is doing was not discussed before the election, how could there have been a directive from the voters. And once the voters found out what Fidesz intended to do, Fidesz lost half is support.
The fact that a large percentage of Fidesz’s shrinking base showed up for this rally, is hardly evidence that they have a strong popular mandate.
The turnout shows that Fidesz’s declining base is highly motivated by his fear inducing nationalist anti-EU rhetoric.
“large percentage of Fidesz’s shrinking base showed up”
Everyone was there, weren’t they?
2/3 majority to the one 2/3 PM – due course.
The 9.6 millions minority stayed home – coward bastards…
You make a good point regarding Fidesz’s not laying out what it was going to do. And naturally the whole concept of a “mandate” is pretty squishy. What I basically meant is that, were a by-election to be held now, they’d still come out on tops, even discounting any dirty tricks, etc.
Check this out: http://hvg.hu/video/20120125_bekemenet
Spot on!
@Leto, Guess Who, Popular: Re the whole “play pogrom” thing, I think maybe it will help you understand what I was getting at if I relate it to a similar hypothetical situation back in my homeland (the US of A). Imagine you have a right-wing group that is organizing an anti-crime rally, and it’s being led by a guy who has a history of saying very sharp things about African-Americans (blacks), and the event culminates in all the (white) rally-goers gathering around a big bonfire. Now, whatever anyone said, it would be hard for me (and, I assume, lots of others from across the political spectrum) not to associate the whole thing with this, and even to think that some or all of the rally-goers are thinking it, too. Same with Saturday. But again, the key word is “play” – there may be some creepy purposeful symbolic undertones, but in the end it’s all pretty harmless; as I always tell the dopey liberals who insist that today’s Hungary is Germany in 1932, there are probably fewer actual hate-crimes against Jews in a year in Hungary than on the average Saturday night in Rotterdam or Malmö. Which is a long way of saying that, while a torchlit parade by right-wingers led by an apologetic Jew-baiter is a bit spooky, I certainly didn’t get my panties in a bunch over it, and you shouldn’t get yours wound up because of me talking about it in these terms. Világos?
And there *are* manz pictures out there from the Saturday’s pro-Fidesz walk showing people who are wearing typical flags/clothes that many Hungarians connects to open racist and fascist Hungarian organisations
The organisers of this demonstrations has not in anyway condemned or tried to stop these people from participating
You a bit like when a Hitler-look-a-like showed up on a Jobbik-rally. Jobbik and its audience did not have a problem with that guy, so what does it say about Jobbik and its audience?
One of my biggest and sadly most consistent critic of Fidesz has been their lack of will to keep their act clean. Just not to upset any ‘nationalist’ vote, they accept whatever in their ranks and then expect to be called ‘Democrats’
Eric, you singled out one person among the organizers, who you call “an apologetic Jew-baiter”, and then you base a very serious preconception on this. And you actually wrote that piece after event anyway… so your concerns must have been dispersed by then.
As far as the idea of a “torchlit parade” is concerned, that may evoke Ku-Klux-Klan in the US but you seem to forget this is Europe. Torchlit marches have never been associated with violence in Hungary. On the contrary, it suggests peaceful determination (on both sides of the political trenches!)
Okay, let’s cut to the chase: Do you consider Bayer a Jew-baiter or not? Because this is really the crux of the issue. I think he is. Man up and say what you, or shut up. Really.
What’s “a J.w-baiter”? Someone who is inciting hatred against J.e*s so that should lead to pogroms? I don’t consider Bayer like that. A journalist who writes articles with anti-Semitic undertones? I consider Bayer like that. Your turn.
I reckon he’s the latter, and the reason he does it is *not* to incite hatred of the sort that would lead to pogroms, but just to juice up his readership and the uglier bits of the base, which basically doesn’t have the stones to do anything more than grumble about the Jews. Which again is why I used the word “play” – it’s just acting. Ugly and pathetic, but ultimately harmless.
Ok, so we agree about Bayer. But then your allusion was way too strong, regardless of using the word “play”
@ Erik D’Amato
Thank you for your answer. A few comments:
If you are really concerned about anti-Semitism in Hungary, you should know that gross generalizations such as your comment on ‘play pogrom’ only make it worse. In fact these kinds of inflammatory remarks and claims, on both sides, are responsible for most of the tensions, whatever tension there is, in Hungary (and everywhere else). To characterise the gathering of hundreds of thousands of people, who explicitly pleaded (on their signs and the speeches delivered) for mutual understanding and mutual respect with the EU and other foreign powers and institutions, as participants in a ‘play pogrom’, because of one or a few people, is extremely irresponsible. No, there is nothing ‘playful’ about pogroms, and there is nothing unclear or hypothetical about calling the march as such.
As Leto pointed out, even if there is some truth to it that Bayer does not like Jews, it does not mean that he would condone violence, or that he is someone “who is inciting hatred against Jews so that should lead to pogroms”. Go to any country in Europe (any!) and you will find people who don’t like Americans. Does that mean that they would organize pogroms against Americans? I don’t think so. Are you, or other Americans, terribly concerned about this? Not really. Is it right to hate someone because of their nationality? Definitely not! The alarming and unfortunate fact is that such things exist. The question is what do we do with it? We can and should name it when we see it and discuss it in a factual, honest and constructive way; or we can make inflammatory statements based on half-truths, expressed inaccurately-enough so that people can read into it whatever their hate and prejudices dictate. The paragraph discussing ‘play pogroms’ in your article, is an example for the latter, and therefore it is irresponsible to write it and publish it, even as an ‘opinion’.
Having said this, I appreciate your responses.
@Popular
I’m not one to defend Erik (not that he would even want me to), but you’re being disingenuous with your arguments again. You do make them sound more logical than Leto’s, but they are still without a logical footing.
Your example regarding Americans is wrong-footed in two respects. First, there are groups in European countries who would gladly organize pogroms of Americans, and are not shy about saying so (mostly fundamentalist Islam in origin). They are kept from doing so by their lack of significant followings and by the police forces of those countries. That was not true as recently as the 1980′s , when there were bombings in places frequented by Americans, such as discos in Germany.
Second, there is no history of true pogroms against Americans in Europe (who have never lived in large numbers here, at least permanently), while there is an overabundance of instances of such actions against the “chosen people” in Europe, including here in Hungary. There are also no well-known political parties in Hungary that are actively supporting specifically anti-American figures.
Your argument, then, of comparing the two kinds of hatred and saying that since violence resulting from one is unlikely, so the same must be said of the other one, too, is specious. You’re comparing apples and oranges, and pretending that history doesn’t exist. Stop twisting logic and portraying others as the true root of the problem, at least until you can come up with workable arguments.
@Erik,
“I certainly didn’t get my panties in a bunch over it”
Was it really necessary to share such intimate details with us?
Very good civilized discussion for a change! The one thing that all you guys fail to notice/acknowledge is that you all assume these politicians in the Budapest parliament have any idea of what they’re doing. However,their track record says otherwise…perhaps that is the reason it is more interesting to discuss the evergreen issue of the J-w diaspora?
I was excited a couple of years ago at the prospect of a new leader and government and said as much to a shopkeeper in the village. She looked at me incredulously and said, “Worse!” That one word has a frightening resonance to this day.
I think she may well have been correct in her prediction.
JA aka justasking
“Pigs are pretty clean animals”
And probably much smarter than many of the posters on this site…
Well, monkeys are smarter than pigs, so I guess that settles it, eh Porky. Oink.
@George,
“Well, monkeys are smarter than pigs…”
Yeah, but they also eat their own feces…yum!
@JA “Yeah, but they also eat their own feces…yum!”
Yes, but so too do many other species. Never having tried it myself, I’m don’t know about “yum” part. But, remembering that you were once an ex-dietician, and Olga wrote that you were a Martha Stewart type, I’ll accept your professional word for it. I do however wonder what was on the menu for your dinner guests (& ex-patients)
@George,
“Yes, but so too do many other species”
I’m sure there are…but, you did use monkeys as an example with Double.
——-
“Never having tried it myself”
Really? How else do you and your fellow blue butt baboons get some of your nutrients? I would think eating each others feces would easier than trying to open those tiny child proof bottles
————
“But, remembering that you were once an ex-dietician… I’ll accept your professional word for it”
Well, I have only ever counselled humans, but for you I would make an exception. I mean really, is there that much different between the 2 species digestive systems?
Just get your vet to give you a referral and we’ll go from there.
@JA – “..you did use monkeys as an example with HH”
Yes, as I am sure that pigs and Nazis (if, there a difference) are some species that eat feces more frequently than monkeys.
“how do you….get your nutrients”
While my alter ego likes bananas, wild fruits,insects etc, I prefer sushi & other Japanese stuff. But any cuisine is really fine, even Hungarian, if nothing else is available
I’m beginning to see the whole picture – only ever counseled humans,… not much different. 2 digestive systems…,.. feces ……., “YUM”.
It would explain “ex-dietician”, and why you’re now seeking referrals from vets
What I see in Hungary is the legal prime minister marching in as the legal dictator.
So glad the bad economy in Hungary no longer necessitates me traveling there on business.
With the EU (I am not an EU citizen) in an even bigger mess there will be no tears shed if they get (rightly) kicked out.
I am so glad you are not coming here anymore
I am glad I dont have to see the shame that does not become the Hungarian people. You are glad you don’t have to be challenged.
I feel sorry for you.
Challanged? By you? Hahahha … Now, that is a good one..
“no longer necessitates me traveling there on business”
Good to hear. Judging from your post, we don’t need people like you here.
Very interesting that Erik’s biggest problem with this march was that one of the organizers is an Anti-Semite [?].
I do appreciate that when clicking on a “J*w-baiting” part I can read ‘Red Éva’s opinion [spin?] on Bayer’s column. Then getting to the juicy part of “stinking excrement”, I am transported to The Jerusalem Post article, titled: ‘Anti-J*wish tirades at Hungarian newspaper provoke outrage’.
Talk about spin – right off the bat I read: J*ws referred to as “stinking excrement”. A bit of generalization isn’t it? (Well, at least for people who read the original Bayer column.)
But Erik does not link us to the Bayer column or even make any mention of the reason why Bayer called Cohen ”stinking excrement”.
Instead, he gives us a leading line with a wink about a torch-lit march.
But to make sure everyone understands what he is implying, he puts in his opinion piece the word “pogrom”. Surely, even the stupidest one will understand what he means – reading that word – who have heard of the Holohoax of the 20th century.
Now, lets look at ‘Red Éva’ translating and analyzing Bayer’s column.
“[...] Unfortunately, they were not all buried up to their necks in the forest of Orgovány.” A brief explanation. Orgovány, a small village on the Great Plains, was the place of massacres [...] In plain language, Bayer is expressing his sorrow that not all the Jews were killed in those days.”
Wrong, ‘Red Éva’, every historian will tell you that the murders at Orgovány had very little to do with the J*ws, it simply was a revenge on the Reds.
“but to my knowledge Imre Roboz was not a writer but a theater director” Sure enough, ‘Red Éva’ [a very quick reading of Wikipedia enlightened you?] But you are wrong again. He was also a writer of two movies (you just can’t trust that Wiki, can you?)
“And “the stupid chancellor of Austria, Renner, and his even stupider undersecretary (sic), Otto Bauer,” gave Béla Kun and his fellow communists political asylum. Naturally, Otto Bauer wasn’t the chancellor’s undersecretary because chancellors don’t have undersecretaries. He, as the head of the Austrian Social Democratic Party, was foreign minister of the coalition government”
Surly enough you could translate Bayer’s original word [államtitkár] as undersecretary, but he most likely meant Secretary of State. [and what else is that stupid cunt, than foreign minister?]
There is a continuation discussing Bayer on ‘Red Éva’s blog. I will address that when I feel like it.
In the meantime I will post Bayer’s original column in my next post. [The foreign fags who don’t know Hungarian can skip it and keep bashing Hungary.]
@DoubleH3
You spent a lot of time and virtual ink trying to convince us that Jewish people are in no danger in Hungary, yet in the same diatribe, you call the Holocaust the “Holohoax”.
Your head is so far up your own butt that you don’t realize you’re undermining your own argument. Anyone who wants us to believe there was no Holocaust would naturally argue that current fears about anti-Semitism are overblown, or even without basis. You’re not fooling anyone.
You say that Éva Balogh misrepresented Bayer’s lament about Orgovány, since the attack was against communists, not Jewish people, but that is faulty logic; he could still be expressing his regret that more Jewish people weren’t killed there, regardless of the intentions of the attackers.
Keep writing posts; the more you do, the more people can see what a logic-free crackpot you are.
http://www.magyarhirlap.hu/velemeny/ugyanaz_a_buz.html
I learn new things every day.
I just posted a lengthy comment here and it’s awaiting moderation. I was very careful not to put offending things in it but I suspect, I can’t use even words that the owner of this site can in his article. [The Freemasons are in overdrive again?]
DoubleH63
You should count yourself lucky that your hateful lies can even get through the moderation process at all.
Erik is an economist and does a lot with a little. He knows that the age-old J-w controversy especially in Hungary will have many, and various, wanting to have their tuppence worth. (Me,included!)
I don’t mind and have always applauded him for running these sites even though Farkas Laszlo has pleaded with him many times- warning about the long arm of the new Media Council introduced by Orban Viktor at great expense to the tax payer!
I would like those on the right that post on this site regularly to tell me, “Where are the 100,000 new jobs promised by Fidesz in pre-election speeches? What are the policies of Jobbik? Does the LMP really exist? And what has happened to Kristina Morvai who was also quite vocal until she was elected an MEP, and got rid of her j-wish husband?
Burning witches, j-w baiting, apartheid (Roma/gypsies),
belong to the 16th century rather than the nationalist, 19th century.
This is the 21st century and the same bias and ignorance prevails. Unfortunately, these things are so deeply embedded in our culture that it is almost impossible to shut them out and, upon these shortcomings do many of us live our lives!
my previous posting did not appear why ?
THE PEACE MARCH REVEALED THE HOSTILE ATTACK ON
HUNGARY’S CURRENT DEMOCRACY
democracy comes from Greek demos here you are
save them! but exactly from what?
sorry, currrently there is no credible opposition
you could strengthen
Where were you in 2006 ? Then we needed the talented alien journalist and their sarcasm to fight against totalitarianism and corruption during socialist-liberal administration. State money was used for private interest and the state institutions were used against the people of Hungary.
And now politcs.hu is making advertisement of that PM…
It is a bit suspicious.
It is obvious for most of your readers who know the facts that you are NOT on the Hungary’s peoples side.