Several local Fidesz organizations took active part in helping organize transportation for its followers to attend the “unofficial” pro-government demonstration last weekend in Budapest, Origo.hu reports.
According to media reports, many protester traveled from the provinces and Transylvania in private buses to show their support for the Fidesz government against what they called the “colonization” of Hungary by the European Union.
Local Fidesz activists in many towns, such as Tatabánya, Kiskunhalas, Füzesabony, were actively helping to recruit people who wanted to take part in the procession, sometimes also by chipping in with the bus tickets, Origo.hu said, citing a poll of local governments.
Question for local auditors (if those animals even exists) is to check that public funds were not used for this type of activity, including public employ promoting this on their paid work-hours or claiming expenses related to this activity
I have a feeling that in smaller places the division between what is private, public and party gets a bit diffuse, then for many people it was no big difference not so long ago…
Predictable…important detail but not the essence of the discussions we have over here.
This is essential and urgent though. The view of the Luxembourg FM.I completely agree with him…and so is the majority of the EU
Orbán has clearly breached Article 2 of the EU treaties that enshrine the democratic values of the constitutional state such as freedom and pluralism. The media have been under the control of the government for a year. Freedom of opinion has been abolished, the separation of powers is being ignored. Independent judges are being replaced by those loyal to the regime. In these points Hungary is no longer different from a dictatorship like that in Belarus.
Well I think it’s going well overboard to say that “freedom of opinion has been abolished.”
Maybe its going overboard to say such a thing but definitely not well overboard.
When one party monopolizes the cities spaces for protest during all the major national holidays for several years into the future, a country is not far from abolishing freedom of opinion.
When people report their jobs are in jeopardy if they attend an opposition rally, a country is not far from abolishing freedom of opinion.
When debate on laws is severely limited, a country is not far from abolishing freedom of opinion.
When checks and balances are systematically removed, a country is not far from abolishing freedom of opinion.
When an opposition radio station loses its license, a country is not far from abolishing freedom of opinion.
When you add up all these things, it really begins to look like freedom of opinion is being abolished.
System Kadar 2.0 is now being installed.
“System Kadar 2.0 is now being installed.”
Sounds like your latest ceterum censeo.
A quite moronic one but never mind.
@ Pete boy
What a pile of rubbish.
And all these supposed events (supposedly happening as you outlandishly interpret them) are widely reported on, discussed and condemned by the ‘absolutely objective’, not-politically-motivated opposition, and the host of its slavishly obedient media outlets, and by those who are fed by their ‘absolutely objective’ information, in Hungary and outside Hungary, publicly and privately, in all forms of the media, and they can present these outlandish accusations as facts, how can you talk about lack of freedom of opinion?
Furthermore, when a politically discredited and ineffective opposition manages to mobilise (by feeding them partisan information) all kinds of foreign political force, which is NOT accountable to the Hungarian electorate, and so influence the Hungarian democratic process, that is when democracy is in real danger. Where are the checks and balances in this? Is this what you call democracy? And you have the audacity to talk about a danger to democracy in Hungary? What a slimy weasel!
Popular says:
January 27, 2012 at 5:59 pm
Furthermore, when a politically discredited and ineffective opposition manages to mobilise (by feeding them partisan information) all kinds of foreign political force, which is NOT accountable to the Hungarian electorate, and so influence the Hungarian democratic process, that is when democracy is in real danger. Where are the checks and balances in this?
—
Yes, close the borders, close-down InterNet, establish pre-censorship on all media, then We have to Protect the most precious thing we have:
* Democracy
Oh, my … there is Vikie everywhere
OK, seriously now, you see Vikie, democracy only works with people who can think. Since you can’t think, you not only can’t recognize democracy, but you can be a threat to it …
But you see, despite all this, you can freely spew your stupidity, travel to Vikie land anytime you want, write and publish anything you want (no matter how stupid it is), we will be just fine with you around, because there are still some people who can think.
Popular says:
January 27, 2012 at 7:31 pm
—
Oohh, did I upset you now again?
I am so solly, lelly lelly, solly
Upset … me?
LMAO 
You really don’t have a clue 
But is ok, just carry on, we need to lough
No need to to rely on the opposition’s reports, the text of laws passed by Fidesz are freely available. No need to rely on the opposition, the words of OV and his comrades are freely available.
So is it a fact or not that the opposition has been barred from protesting in most of central Budapest, is it a fact or not that debate in parliament is limited, is it a fact or not that Fidesz has curtailed the power of the supreme court, etc., etc.?
All of these attacks and many others on democratic institutions and practices are easily verified by reading the government’s own words and laws.
The pile is festering in your lap, not mine. And as it festers OV’s government is conceding on many of these points so that it can get a bag of money from the EU and IMF. So whose the weasel?
“When people report their jobs are in jeopardy if they attend an opposition rally”
Ha-ha.
People report UFO sightings, too.
That people were losing their jobs because they were participating at the rallies at Kossuth Ter 2006 was a usual accusation, but then from ‘the other side’
But maybe they were reporting UFOs also…
Well, this is how the head of the Independent High-level Group on Media Freedom and Pluralism, which advises the EU, on Wednesday denounced the “extraordinary concentration” of power in the press under the leadership of Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban, saying it has undermined his nation’s media freedom.
The official, former Latvia Prime Minister Vaire Vike Freiberga, said Wednesday that she believes “Hungary and its leaders would be wise to reconsider the laws and regulations that they have passed so as not to stand in contravention of various fundamental principles.”
Freiberga said Hungary stands out with its “extraordinary concentration” of responsibilities. She said that if prohibitive fines can be imposed “there is no court recourse as there is in other countries.”
“These are potential sources of pressure on the media and any source of pressure is a potential danger for narrowing the range of their freedom of expression,” she said.
-
(-http://www.winonadailynews.com/news/world/europe/article_de2f066f-e5a1-5e20-96c6-cdedce1ca2bf.html)
Hmmm … freedom of opinion has been abolished? Funny. Wasn’t it you Erik, who just published an ‘opinion’ about the January 21st march being a ‘play pogrom’? Wasn’t it you who widely reported about the recent antigovernment protests? I mean really … people are sooooo vorried about expressing their opinions in Hungary, even if they are outright lies and malicious accusations…
So, given all this, how can you in good conscience write and publish that ‘freedom of opinion has been abolished’? Is this an opinion?
Is the problem here with logic or honesty?
Popular says:
January 27, 2012 at 5:27 pm
Is the problem here with logic or honesty?
—
Written by the same guy who 32 minutes later writes:
January 27, 2012 at 5:59 pm
Furthermore, when a politically discredited and ineffective opposition manages to mobilise (by feeding them partisan information) all kinds of foreign political force, which is NOT accountable to the Hungarian electorate, and so influence the Hungarian democratic process, that is when democracy is in real danger. Where are the checks and balances in this?
-
* Is the problem here with logic or honesty?
Oh dear, Vikie
You did it again … you don’t make any sense! 
Wanna try it again? 
Feel free to express you opinion 
Scary movie:), i guess when the people heard about the protest, some of them went to the office of the party they were mislead by SUCH mediums like politics.hu that its “unofficial”. The offices wich are numberous all over hungary, and ask:- how could i get to budapest? -since, in our offices the main point is to help the voters to tell their problems and to be able to show symphatize. FIDESZ and Young Fidesz organize and organized many civilian protest, celebration, speeches, book reading, sport activites, many else, i hope the commies too, so i dont see any anti democratic factor, with such behaviour. You show well known, all around the western world common things as they were unique for hungary, and as its horrible. and has to stop or something? If you were against this protest you are also against free will, free media, free speech ladies and gentlemen.When private, public and party meets its called SOCIETY, and we can be only happy if the government listen to their voters, not like some years ago!!!
So what? Does this explain the huge turnout, several hundreds of thousands of people?
Say, the Opera House rally, of thirty thousands of people at most, was certainly helped by MSZP in a similar way. That doesn’t matter either.
So what? Does this explain the huge turnout, several hundreds of thousands of people?
It means…that there are several hundreds of thousands of people…not belonging to the EU spirit.
THESE are the issues you have to deal with.
Luxembourg FM:
Orbán has clearly breached Article 2 of the EU treaties that enshrine the democratic values of the constitutional state such as freedom and pluralism. The media have been under the control of the government for a year. Freedom of opinion has been abolished, the separation of powers is being ignored. Independent judges are being replaced by those loyal to the regime. In these points Hungary is no longer different from a dictatorship like that in Belarus.
Tell me about “the EU spirit” you’re having.
How much have you had and how strong is it? 
I was there, at the “peace march”, and what struck me was the sheer number of white buses, which were allowed to park right on the parade route. This is an indication of the massive amounts of money spent on boosting the turnout. Meanwhile, I’m sure that nobody was bussed in to attend the anti-new-constitution demonstration, meaning that everyone there got there on their own dime, and the vast majority of people there were from Budapest or its suburbs.
This is very similar to the way that people were paid to attend, and even clap and cheer, the Orbán speech outside the National Museum. Rent-a-crowds are the sort of things used by dictators and communists, and Fidesz. Coincidence?
So was a rent-a-crowd at the Opera House on the 2nd, too?
Who paid their rented buses? MSZP, haven’t they?
-http://www.168ora.hu/itthon/hatalmas-tomeg-keszulodik-orbanek-ellen-88535.html
Kornél Árok, president of the Hungarian Solidarity Movement said they expect more than 10000 people. He emphasized that demonstrators would arrive by buses ftom the countryside, too.”
(A STOP megkeresésére Árok Kornél, a Magyar Szolidaritás Mozgalom társelnöke kifejtette… résztvevők számáról szólva Árok Kornél megjegyezte, a közösségi oldalakat elnézve tízezer főnél is több ember várható. Hangsúlyozta, vidékről buszokkal is érkeznek majd demonstrálók az Operaház elé.)
MSZP leader and MP Tibor Szanyi called for “unity in abolishing Orbán’s dictarship”
(A január 2-ra tervezett Operaház előtti tüntetésen való részvételre buzdította az embereket Szanyi Tibor, az MSZP elnökségi tagja, a demokratikus erőket pedig az „orbáni diktatúra elsöprésében” való összefogásra hívta fel szombati sajtótájékoztatóján.)
The January 2nd demonstration was very complex, as this record shows:
“The consensus arrived at during the arbitration process before the January 2 demonstration reflected this sensibility: the decision was to organize a “civilian” demonstration. The eight different permit applications would be withdrawn. In their place, two private individuals representing civil organizations – Tamás Székely of the labor group Solidarity and Attila (Steve) Kopiás of “Habitat instead of Jail,” a group active in protesting Hungary’s criminalization of homelessness – were to submit a permit for a collective protest. Political parties could bring their signs and their members. The demonstration was not going to center around or even include in its program speeches by representatives of the four opposition parties, however”
(-http://thecontrarianhungarian.wordpress.com/2012/01/08/to-the-margins-of-an-early-january-protest-in-hungary/)
To join together 8 different planned protests into one, takes some discussions and the demonstration as such was supported by several political parties, who of course urged their members to join
Anything else would be strange
@Leto
Yes, as usual you are up to your typical dirty rhetorical tricks!
You’ll notice that no one has accused the opposition of organizing buses and paying for them, only that there were people in the countryside who agreed to band together to rent buses; that’s the real difference! Grass-roots versus astro-turf, as they say in the U.S.
I was out of the country for the Opera House demonstration, but the people I know who attended (as well as all the pictures I’ve seen) tell me that there were no buses in sight. Compare that with what I saw during the “Peace March”, which was huge numbers of buses, given priority parking. That’s the tell-tale sign of a rent-a-crowd that has the backing of the government, unlike the one at the Opera House.
@SzE:
“there were no buses in sight”
Oh, well then either Mr. Árok(ásó) lied or the buses were out of sight. There’s no other possibility.
Then you claim “people in the countryside agreed to band together to rent buses” at the Opera House (backed by MSZP, see Szanyi’s press conference) and you claim people didn’t do that on this huge torchlit march (helped by some local Fidesz organizations).
You do all this without any evidence, of course.
And all these (relatively) details are discussed by Leto like there are no higher priorities right now. He avoids the essence. Like the Hungarian Government ir running out of allies…the EU/IMF support will not soon and maybe never come, because Hungary is regarded as the testcase of what to do when a government stands up against (almost all) the EU principles. Lagarde (IMF) says time is of the essence for Hungary, meaning Hungary is running out of time. The EU will not definately blink so either Orban bows and looses all credibility within Hungary, or he does not and than Hungary will be slowly (maybe not even so slowly) pushed out of the EU.
Idiot:
I specifically refuted specific insinuations of your ideological buddy. Since even a dumb person like you could see that now you come here and you start shovelling this generic postcommie/left-lib dung here.
Read the article we’re commenting on and let’s stay on-topic.
Did or did not Fidesz officially support the pro-Fidesz demo last Saturday?
Several political parties and other organisations openly and officially supported the ‘opposition’-demo on January 2nd
So what is the problem, except that if Fidesz stated that it did not support its own demo, and then is caught red-handed doing exactly that, Fidesz did not tell the ‘TRUTH’, nothing but the ‘TRUTH’
WoW, that was a real shocker…
@ Vikie
“Did or did not Fidesz officially support the pro-Fidesz demo last Saturday?”
Vikie: no, the government hated every minute of it … what and idiotic question!
But again … look who is asking 
Vikie, where did Fidesz say that they were not supportive of the march?
But before you get into your un-thinking frenzy, maybe I can help you a bit with thinking: being ‘supportive’ and even ‘actively taking part’, as pointed out by other in other comments, (as if you could take part inactively – what a stupid statment) does not mean tha it was organized by Fidesz.
To satisfy your pathetic attempt at reasoning, it should have meant that no Fidesz member (and or sympatiser) had attended, supported or was acrtively present (involved) in the march.
As I said before, that pesky trouble you have with reasoning … it really shows …
It is very clear if Fidesz supported the demonstration/even or not *as_a_party_organisation* of course, or not
Only a communist, like yourself would regard you need to an ‘approval’ from The Party to join any political event
For the sake of the mental health of the Hungarian Nation, I really do hope some, at least a few, went their on their own accord, without checking The Guidelines for The Party
@ Vikie
Vikoe dear, and your point was… ? Oh, that pesky thinking problem you have ….
Popular says:
January 27, 2012 at 11:14 pm
and your point was
—
“Fidesz stated that it did not support its own demo, and then is caught red-handed doing exactly that, Fidesz did not tell the ‘TRUTH’, nothing but the ‘TRUTH’”
If you had understood that when Godot spoke about sucking a carrot, he actually meant just that, then it is good for your memory, so you could have remembered the posta bit up
I know that many people see that episode a bit homoerotic and given your inclination, it can be hard to regard a carrot as just a carrot, especially when sucking it, but For The Hungarian Kingdom, please try, so you do not forget all the time – OK?
+ I wouldnt be surprised, the next article from opposite: babys and children were FORCED to go to this event by government sympathizants. Wich children didnt gone didnt got supper:)):)
holding them at gunpoint
Babies and children? Nonsense. They just piled the marchers’ Zimmer frames, walking sticks and wheelchairs onto the buses and then the bácsis and nénis just clambered aboard.
Don’t be surprised – they don’t get supper anyway..!
Brave new world, called Orbanistan.
In reality Viktor is the party and party is Viktor. Viktor’s will be done.
Seems to me that if FIDESZ helped organize the rally after the government saying that it wasn’t their rally, it points out again the duplicity that Viktor and his henchmen are noted for.
Ha Ha ! When I said they had organized buses I got a torrent of no ! they all paid for it themselves because of solidarity and love for the government ,
And the number of people attended ( which I also disputed got the same reaction ).
It would really have been so much better for fidez supporters if they had just admired , from the beginning that they organized transport for people who wanted to show solidarity but did not have the means , it is legitimate and fine , also the insane number inflation is bad 1/2 a million 1 million honestly , ( there is wishful thinking , then there is delusions ).
The organizers would have been better of with honesty, because obviously people will dig for dirt and they will find it and if it is enough dirt it will tarnish and mar what would otherwise have been a well organized demonstration .
Honesty goes a long way ( and it is good to use it if you are not a politician ).
On an unrelated side not will never vote for LMP again , only did cause there was no alternative ,( in my opinion) I hope the two tailed dog party makes the lists or I will for the first time not cast a vote , that is how bad I think politicians and politics are in Hungary !
@Procrastinator
Please, vote for the least-bad option, even if it is LMP (for whom I do not want to vote, either). Fidesz is counting on you to get disgusted and not vote, which is essentially like half a vote for them. This is assuming that there is a free and fair election in Hungary ever again.
Don’t forget MDF! They’re not so bad as MSZP, DK, and LMP.
You are right that is the problem , I mean about not voting , the problem does remain for who to vote , some should for an anti corruption party , whose one and only platform is to curb corruption , I would vote for them
Maybe we should ‘kidnap’ Mr Anna Hazare from India to here?
(-http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-16675762)
Yeah I could go for that .maybe we could get him over in nicer means then kidnapping
, but if not definably kidnapping .
on the other hand he might get thrown in jail for hunger striking
I think if I was misfortunate enough to live in somewhere like Füzesabony, I’d also jump at the chance of an all expenses paid trip to civilisation on a Saturday afternoon
Probably also explains the carriages full of confused bumpkins on the red metro line Saturday evening- several seemed to be under the impression that Demszky still controlled BKV.
@Paul “Hungary is no longer different from a dictatorship like that in Belarus”
Phew! I am so glad that Hungary has been upgraded and we aren’t anymore the 1930s Germany. XXI century here we come!
What a change indeed… But that was just a lapse. He’ll reverse on this in no time.
I’m so glad that Hungary has been upgraded and we aren’t anymore the 1930s Germany
Upgrade? Physically or mentally?