At a lecture in Budapest’s Central European University (CEU) on Tuesday, Kim Lane Scheppele, professor of law at Princeton University, set out criteria by which a law can be said to be constitutional, and found Hungary’s new supreme one wanting.
The professor started the lecture by raising the question whether a constitution as a whole can be unconstitutional. She argued it can if it violates the legal and political framework which it has created.
Scheppele set out possible ways this might happen, such as the law is not based on the will of the electorate, the drafting process is invalid or it does not comply with the community’s historical constitution.
She also outlined ways she believed the Hungarian government had dismantled the system of checks and balances.
Scheppele said that whereas EU institutions could help to improve matters, they alone would not be sufficient to do so. What is needed is internal democratic renewal, something which cannot be carried out from outside, she said.
Scheppele, an expert in comparative constitutional law, studies the emergence and collapse of constitutional systems. After 1989, she has focused her attention on the transformation of the countries under Soviet domination into constitutional rule-of-law states. She lived in Budapest from 1994 to 1998, studying the Constitutional Court and lecturing at Eotvos Lorand University and CEU.
Any link to that speech?
How unsurprising this is from that woman.
“How unsurprising this is from that woman.”
So deep, such a convincing argument and so intelligent…this will convince people to change their minds.
There’s no point in arguing with a certain kind of “left-liberals”, that’s just as sensible like arguing with a Mr. Schickelgruber or Mr. Dzugashvili about democratic values and practices.
She proved herself to belong this class of people.
And there’s no point in arguing with a \certain kind\ of \right wing conservative”. It’s a draw.
Let me start with the question whether an academic can be ‘un-academic’? I would argue that she can, if she violates the academic framework within which she claims her authority to address an issue.
In her presentation (as in her previous writings in the New York Times in Krugman’s columns), Scheppele looks at some data, and consistently provides only one interpretation when she is fully aware that there are other diametrically opposed interpretations available.
Let me give you an example: if an academic puts forward a specific theory on some subject in nuclear physics without factually and honestly considering existing opposing theories, that academic would be simply dismissed as an academic. The reason: academic/scientific method cannot be governed by personal/political bias.
This is what Scheppele did and does when it comes to Hungarian constitutional and political issues. She does not act as an academic, but as someone engaging in partisan polemics, and because of this, she should be treated as such and not as an ‘academic’.
Academics also are expected to be critical thinkers. And if the opposing view on nuclear physics make no sense, then they are not expected to take that view seriously or give that opposing view any mention.
You are right. It makes no sense whatsoever to call our new constitution “as a whole unconstitutional” like this woman did. So this view should not be taken seriously indeed. (see my suggestion at February 1, 2012 at 12:37 pm)
It makes no sense to you, Leto, but to other experts it makes a lot of sense. You don’t have to take it seriously, but other people do.
“Academics also are expected to be critical thinkers.”
Yes, they are, even more, they must be critical thinkers. However, if you had any clue about ‘critical thinking’, you would know that the premise of any critical thinking is an honest, objective presentation of the issue. In the context of humanities (for example, philosophy, political science), this includes a presentation of the intention of the author, before it is examined critically.
Scheppele did not do this either in her presentation at the CEU or in her articles in the NYT. She presented the facts only according to her interpretation, and as such she created a biased premise, hence preempted any possibility of critical thinking.
The fact that you do not recognize this shows, that you, just as her, are incapable of critical thinking.
Leto,
Please quit wasting our time. Your alter egos are transparent.
Hungary’s democratic deficiencies are well catalogued at this point.
Idiot, if you cannot address the points I make instead you keep busy with trying to figure out my identity, then shut up
, you will LOOK wiser … 
@Cogito
“dismissed as an academic”
By whom? By you and people who have no respect for academics? Experts in most scientific fields are often also academics. You are recognized as an expert in what field? I hereby dismiss you as a “partisan polemicist”.
In what way did Scheppele show a personal bias? It sounds to me like she came to the best conclusion available, based on sound scientific thinking. If those other interpretations were more valid, she would likely have offered them as her professional opinion, instead.
You seem to think that you are an expert, so what are those opposing theories, and how are they better?
Did you listen to her presentation? Did you read her articles? Did you understand what I wrote? Did you actually adress the points I raised?
No, you didn’t. If you did, you would actually make sense. Instead, you are just spewing your stupidity. So typical of the demagogue idiots around here.
There you go, neo-liberal reasoning at its best, the constitution is unconstitutional…meaning it’s not liberal and decadent enough therefore it’s unconstitutional. A constitution can be anti-freedom anti-human rights, pro-centralization etc. but it cannot be unconstitutional. Stop twisting the language drama queen.
“it does not comply with the community’s historical constitution.” – oh yeah how dare you change too much.
“Hungarian government had dismantled the system of checks and balances.” – ahem the stinking EU doesn’t even have that, it’s a top down system it’s not like the USA it like the USSR, EU Commission decides and that’s it, the rest is just show.
“What is needed is internal democratic renewal, something which cannot be carried out from outside” – translation: “we need to infiltrate.”
Hermeneutical abuse (language twisting for their political purposes) is one of the major political weapons used by these left-(neo)liberals. They use it all the time, to the most shocking extent…
Actually the new Constitution complies well with the community’s historical constitution, that is the one based on the Doctrine of the Holy Crown with the notion that the crown itself has personhood and, as a legal entity, is identical to the state of Hungary herself.
The Holy Crown was legally superior to the ruling monarch, who ruled “in the name of the crown”. This legal construction, coupled with the resistence clause (ius resistendi) of the Golden Bull of 1222, actually means a very early tradition towards democracy and “balances and checks”.
Yes the Golden Bull is the Hungarian Magna Carta, not that good but a great step. But I despise royalty their claims to rule are ridiculous and they have no justification. That is why America is, rather was, called the land of the free because everybody was king everybody is sovereign (Book: Good to be king – Michael Badnarik) This whole crown thing is just another form of weird socialism, not taking responsibility and having an overlord nanny state. The statement that every right and property comes from a piece of metal is outrageous.
Most royalty were deep into the occult anyway, the Turul is a Phoenix and the double cross is a sun symbol, it’s all about sun worship.
“Deu 4:19 “And beware not to lift up your eyes to heaven and see the sun and the moon and the stars, all the host of heaven, and be drawn away and worship them and serve them” …yeah this is why the Vatican burned people who read and copied the Bible.
The “holy” crown is a piece of metal a dead thing, a dead thing can’t give you anything and don’t give me this doctrine thing that it’s sent by God , what is this the middle ages, you gonna burn me at the stake if I don’t believe? Get freedom from Christ not a damn item.
Nothing can be further from being “a piece of metal, a dead thing”. The Holy Crown a piece of living national tradition and it gives us, Hungarians a lot. (Certainly this doesn’t apply for lowlife postcommies.)
Ah, I’m not religious, I’m a firm atheist. So cut back on your stupid American missionary passion, you jackass.
Leto says:
February 1, 2012 at 9:25 pm
it gives us, Hungarians a lot. (Certainly this doesn’t apply for lowlife postcommies.)
—
Now you are contradicting yourself
1st part all Hungarians receive a lot
2nd part not all Hungarians receive a lot
You cannot both have the cake and eat it, you should know…
Clarification of my wording for dummies:
“it gives us, Hungarians a lot. (Certainly with the exception of lowlife postcommies.)”
To hell with you and your Holy Crown. The Constitution is a document for all the people. The Fidesz Constitutions panders to the conservative middle-class Christian community.
Leto says:
February 1, 2012 at 11:24 pm
Clarification of my wording for dummies:
“it gives us, Hungarians a lot. (Certainly with the exception of lowlife postcommies.)”
—
Now you are contradicting yourself, again!
1st part = all Hungarians receive a lot
2nd part = not all Hungarians receive a lot
You cannot both have the cake and eat it, you should know…
@Obnoxious in Budapest:
To hell with you away from Budapest. It would have been be way too late if you had already rotted in hell years ago.
Yeah only an atheist can believe and rationalize a piece of metal giving him anything. You know what they say back to the Bible or back to the jungle and every pagan belief that comes with it including idol worship.
@Tom:
Being an atheist, I still know the Bible well enough, both Old Testament and New Testament. I haven’t read all the books (have you?) but I think a sufficient amount. I also read Buddhist writings, I read up on Hinduism, I read a bit of Quaran and I read Tao Te Ching from cover to cover.
Now let me know what you know about religions.
I know religions suck and most people who are religions can’t justify their beliefs and they just parrot the same things the were told, or they just take sides like when it comes to picking a political party like it’s a football team or something.
I bet you even have a degree in comparative religion, that thing is completely useless, it’s like getting knowledge about property rights from a thief, I had enough debates with people holding a degree like that, they don’t know jack about even the basics.
@Tom:
No, I don’t have a degree “in comparative religion”. I was only interested in this topic, too.
As for the Holy Crown, that’s certainly not an ‘idol’ for me. It’s a strong national symbol which I’m very proud of. I hope Hungary will be a kingdom in my life (with no human monarch but with the Holy Crown as a legal, abstract person). I don’t find much dignity in a republic and republics haven’t worked for Hungary too well either.
I agree republics in themselves don’t work, it is just a barebone for a constitution, the republic is like it’s constitution.
yes Hungary has great history yes I don’t mind the Crown being the symbol of that history and its achievements, BUT I sure as hell would not want to be a SUBJECT to a piece of metal or symbol or whatever it represents and I defensively do not recognize that thing owning anything and especially I would not want to live under its authority, a ‘personless’ soulless emotionless artificial person with authority…you know what that is called today? Corporatism. Corporations with personal rights ruling in politics but the crown is worse, it claims that it is the only sovereign, NO! I AM SOVEREIGN YOU ARE SOVEREIGN EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING IS SOVEREIGN you can sign away your freedom if you want but don’t force me based on this fake twisted patriotism that somehow people need to be subjected to their history and a symbol.
@Tom:
It’s absolutely fine for me to be a subject to a symbol like the Holy Crown. If I were British then I wouldn’t mind being to a subject to a *symbolic monarch* like Elizabeth II either. However given Hungary’s history, restoring a kingdom with a human monarch would be an absolutely awful idea. The last thing I would want to see is a Hapsburg king.
For my views on “corporatism”, I had a debate with Sophist and Curious George on some thread here (I cannot remember which one) and I doubt very much you’d vehemently oppose my views on this.
“She also outlined ways she believed the Hungarian government had dismantled the system of checks and balances.”
Now this is essential in my opinion. The reason why the VO government is almost completely isolated within the EU.
“ahem the stinking EU doesn’t even have that”
The next logical step from people like you should be preparing to leave the EU which you hate so much. When will the first steps be made to leave? Ooooh…after the IMF money comes in. Oh..and you still need the subsidies.
I understand.
You and your idiotic mantra of: “If you don’t like it leave”. And you call yourself a ‘democrat’? You are joke.
Hungary was part of Europe and the European community before Europe had an idea of being Europe. Is this what you call democracy? If you don’t agree with me you leave? This is what Stalin thought and did: the people he did not like he made them ‘leave’. A skilled ‘negotiator’ he was, just like you. I bet you have a picture of his over your bed.
“Hungary was part of Europe and the European community before Europe had an idea of being Europe.” ….even you can see that this is nonsense
Leave the EU…yes…not Europe you silly….the EU……this Hungarian government does not have the same ideals and values even close. If someone hates his wife he divorces…except those jerks who stay for the money. There are very many civilised writers, artists, scientists, some are gay…well educated and civilised who ARE welcome.
What has this to do with Stalin? He was a criminal, a mass killer. And your reply to my comment, to my opinion is comparing me with him. You can not handle freedom of speech, you hate too much, you hate minorities, gays, liberals and I could make the list much longer. All this is not within the European Union values at all….people like you are not welcome. Because of the double game you are playing for the money.
Agreed. Thanks, Paul. These guys are cretins.
@Cogito
According to the history I’ve read, Stalin didn’t let anyone leave, he just killed them or moved them to work camps in Siberia (including some Hungarians, after the war). Why not include some links to websites that describe some of the people who were allowed to leave?
Lots of people would’ve liked to leave the Soviet Union then (some managed to escape, like my wife’s grandfather), and those countries which don’t like the EU could most certainly leave, if they so chose. Nobody will send Hungary to Siberia, and it’s the choice of Hungary’s government whether it wants to follow the rules of the EU (at least as much as every other country) or leave. You seem to be arguing that Hungary should be allowed to flout the rules, yet stay in and keep getting all the benefits.
Paul, as you may know the Eu does have a system of checks and balances. Governance is divided among several different initiations that are structured to have checks and balances on the others. The commentators that claim it does’t could still argue about how effective those checks and balances are, but to claim there are none is nonsense.
“several different institutions”
Pete…Fair enough….point taken.
Best wishes!
Kings once believed (some still do) that they rule/d by Divine Right. Any extension of this say, via the Holy Crown, amounts to the same thing.
Hungary needed a new constitution in order to reflect its status as a democracy now unshackled from the chains of communism.
It would appear strange to an outsider that it has taken almost 25 years for this to be drawn up and put into effect?
Hungary falls between two stools every time because it looks for sustenance in the form of cash handouts from both the East and West horizons to prop up an unworkable model.
The reforms essential to carrying the nation forward to prosperity have not been introduced and the poor administration,infernal bureaucracy, and endemic corruption fly in the face of every effort to turn things around for the better.
Fidesz need to do do some checks and balances on their leader and those cronies he surrounds himself with if we are not to find ourselves with another bunch of losers taking control at the next election namely, the MSZP!
This, of course, is all academic, as Leto will be the first to point out!
Evidence of the primary sort should be introduced to back up any argument. I haven’t the time nor the inclination. Take my word for it…
Currently the Holy Crown is referenced in the new Constitution only as a very powerful national symbol which is deeply rooted in Hungarian history
Essential changes, call it ‘reforms’, are under way. Say, restoring “járások” (subcounties) from 2013 will allow a lot of optimization of local administration resources.
I hope MSZP is history now but they must be treated like plague, that is the possible threat of their returning to power should not be and cannot be ignored.
This was in response to Jurisprudence’s post.
“Fidesz need to do do some checks and balances on their leader”
I agree.
“and those cronies he surrounds himself with ”
I partly agree. Orbán has a track record of some really bad person choices.
@ Paul’s February 1, 2012 at 3:29 pm comment
(This is my 4th attempt to post this comment)
You write: “….even you can see that this is nonsense”
Hahahahahaaaaaa This is what you an argument? Can’t you do at least somewhat better? You are a joke.
I see, you are having difficulty with recognizing your own deep-seated Stalinistic attitudes. Let me help you a bit.
Democracy is about taking the wish, freedom and self-determination of the people seriously. When there is disagreement, you negotiate. In a democracy, membership is based on belonging, not on attributes.
You (and many of your comrades) on the other hand, consider the EU as a party (the socialist/communist party, to be exact), where membership is construed singing the same tune, marching on the same rhythm, where membership is based on attributes and not on belonging.
One of the best examples of the latter was Stalin, your mentor, who effectively applied the principle: “if you do not agree, you will leave”, just as you suggest. And guess what, 40-50 million people not only left, they never returned, thanks to Stalin. So, as I said, you got a good mentor for yourself.
You write: “You can not handle freedom of speech, you hate too much, you hate minorities, gays, liberals and I could make the list much longer.”
You see, you did it again: without me saying anything about these things, you already condemned me, and sent me packing to Siberia, or to the Gulags. Stalin was just as bigoted in his thinking as you.
We believe the EU is upholding essential democratic principles. The US stands in solidarity with the EU – the US believes Hungary is no longer a democratic country but closer to be a Fidesz gang.
The fact that Fidesz has changed the voting districts so that it virtually impossible for it to lose elections is undemocratic. Lowering the retirement for judges so it can replace them all with Fidesz party members is anti-democratic. The public media has become a propaganda organ for the government. Undemocratic.
If Hungary doesn’t want to honor its treaty committments to the EU, it can leave the Union.
I don’t think you and the other right wingers have the balls do that …
Some things just don’t change
the (democratic) royal “we” has deemed to address the common folk yet again. Is this not breathtaking?
Let’s see some of his idiotic ramblings:
“The fact that Fidesz has changed the voting districts so that it virtually impossible for it to lose elections is undemocratic.”
According to the Nepszava Feb. 2, 2012, the MSZP thinks that they can get two-third majority in 2014, only if they are ‘open to people’s problems’. So, what will it be, genius? Is it going to be the undemocratic voting system, or two-thirds MSZP majority?
“Lowering the retirement for judges so it can replace them all with Fidesz party members is anti-democratic.”
So, you mean that until now they were all MSZP appointed judges? You don’t even recognize your own stupidity.
“The public media has become a propaganda organ for the government.”
Why, until now was it the propaganda organ of the leftist coalition (after all they were appointed by MSZP and MSZMP bosses)?
You are a joke.
Leto-copy wrote:
So, you mean that until now they were all MSZP appointed judges?
—
Before 1 of January 2012 Judges were appointed by their peers, without direct political influence
Higher Judges, like Supreme and Constitutional Judges, were appointed by a 2/3rd majority in Parliament, before April 2010 guaranteeing a bi-partisan choice
Many of the high judges were also appointed during the first free Parliament (1990-1994), where MSZP was at its smallest party-group, half of what they have today
From 1st of January the exclusive privilege to appoint Judges lies with one Administrative Person appointed by the 2/3rd majority of Fidesz in Parliament. That this is not a bi-partisan choice is clear from the simple fact that this Administrative Person is the wife of a leading Fidesz politician, who actually wrote much of the Constitution
Conclusion:
* In Hungary Justice is a Family Affair
Just a Reality Check
No, Cogito, you are a joke. I am in mainstream of modern society, you lurk on the nationalist fringes.
Under the new voting districts, Fidesz would have won all of the last three elections.
The public media didn’t even attend or provide footage of the Opera demonstration but did manage to provide extensive coverage of the events going on inside. If the Opera demonstration had been organized by Fidesz, I would guarantee you there would have been very extensive coverage.
Name me a single public media journalist who asked tough questions to Fidesz during the last election who still working for the public media. They were all purged. In fact, xenophobic Fidesz purged virtually all foreigners from the public media, including some who are friends of mine.
Judges should not be appointed without public debate and testimony. In the US every judge has to be confirmed by the Senate. And under the US system it is quite common for a judge nominee to be rejected. When was the last time that Fidesz or MSZP rejected a judicial candidate?
Moreover, American political parties do not chose party members. They will chose judges who share their philosophy, but they are in general not due paying party members who owe their livelihood to the party. People in America do not join political parties in order to find jobs or use public positions to make illicit gains in the form of kickbacks.
The reality is that Hungary operates an ugly patronage system. People become party members so they can get jobs and in general their loyalty to the party often trumps their loyalty to the government institutions and the Constitution.
You in particular show little understanding of how political systems work outside Hungary nor do you realize how pernicious is this spoil system.
There is no substitute for a strong democratic culture and Hungary has never had a strong democratic culture. The last period of Hungarian democracy before the Wall fell was the Horthy regency.
Mr. Orbán has sweet talked the markets for the moment, but the EU and IMF are not dumb. He hasn’t met their conditions and consequently they will not engage in talks. Once the markets realize that Orbán is just talking, the Forints will fall again.
Victor will continue to do market financing, at rates that virtually guarantee that the debt service and total debt to GDP ratio increases. His policies have led to a sixteen year high in the government debt to GDP ratio.
But in the end, market financing for Hungary at interest rates higher than 8% is a dead.
So Victor will lose in the long run, but he will do his best to inflict maximum damage on Hungary in a vain attempt to prolong his reign.
As for you, you will live to see IMF austerity imposed on the country and eventually the Hungarians will wake up and realize just how stupid is the Hungarian Right.
They will ask themselves why those leftist Germans and Austrians live so well while those nationalist Hungarians live so poorly and ridiculed by the rest of Europe, including Slovakia and Croatia, former Hungarian colonies.
The incredibly obnoxious jerk in Budapest wrote “I am in mainstream of modern society”.
Now that’s either the most hilarious joke ever or it’s an extremely frightening and the saddest thing ever. Let everybody decide themselves which case it is.
Hey Ami boy, if you are really concerned about the new electoral districts and its effect on the outcome of the election, go quickly and warn your buddies at the MSZP, because they are convinced that they can win a two-third majority (if they are open to the people’s problems – what a novel idea for a ‘democrat’), and while you are there, you can kiss their asses too, main stream…
@ Cogito
Hey, Cogito, what’s with your Stalin fetish? And why are you so full of hate?
You write: “When there is disagreement, you negotiate.” Pity you can’t even follow your own advice.
Hey Bowen boy, I guess you have difficulties with reading and comprehension
Just keep on prcaticing.
As far as ‘hate’ goes, I guess you were looking in a mirror for too long, because I am having fun, and can’t stop loughing at some of the idiotic comments here, like yours
As for negotiating, well, it starts when you actually address the points I made and not get into the ad hominem shit. So, there too, you need some more practice
carry on 
This is no reason to compromise on basic principles. The judiciary should not be controlled by the Executive branch.
It is that simple, dummie.
And your point was… what?
Poor you … 
I don’t think you should pity him just because you can’t understand his point; I think everyone else posting here can understand it, even if they don’t agree with it.
So, you are everyone’s mouthpeace? Why not let them speak for themselves, or you just love to patronize? I am not surprized. If you have nothing, as in nothing, to say, or better, if you can’nt say anything vaguely rational, you don’t have to resort to patronizing others
Typical.
@Cogito
Wait, you’re chastising me for having nothing to say, yet saying it anyway, and for being patronizing? Let me quote your entire previous post: “And your point was… what? Poor you … ” You don’t think that’s patronizing? Where is the substance in that post?
Another quote from you: “So, you are everyone’s mouthpeace?”
I said “I think”, which is the same as saying “I believe”, in this context. Therefore, I am not acting as their mouthpiece. Also, they are free to contradict me.
Is this the best you can do? I can’t believe there is another right-wing insulter on this site who is even worse at insults than Leto and justasking! I’m starting to miss Elle…
Hey, Szabad baby, you presence here is an insult to human intelligence
You can address this very issue by first addressing the issues I have raised in a respctful manner, that is, by addressing them without misinterpreting them prior to addressing them.
As long as you cannot or don’t wan’t to do that, your desrespect is an insult to intelligence, and you cannot expect me to respond to you in kind.
So, you decide what it will be.
BTW, this is axactly what Scheppele did and does. And since no respectful or espected scholar would do such thing, I have no respect for he either as a scholar. Based on her articles and speach related to the current Hungarian situation, she is a fake, a partisan and an idelogue, which is a disgrace to the academic world.
@Cogito,
“So, you are everyone’s mouthpeace?”
Awhile back Erik posted a full-time position for ‘site poster protector’ on poli.hu. It came with a red cape, black tights and a neon yellow shirt that had ‘SPP’ embroidered with dark green thread on its centre.
Being a ‘szabad ember’, he applied and obviously got it. I believe he still maybe on the ‘probation phase’ which has to be completed, before an actual permanent full time position can be granted
So, if you have an issue with this individuals job performance, I would suggest you submit your complaint (s) directly to Erik soon, before this ‘probation’ window is closed and we are stuck with this employee.
@justasking
Ah, much better! Still sarcastic, but not shrill, and certainly creative! No name-calling either; still, I’ll hold judgment until I see a real trend.
@SE,
“Still sarcastic, but not shrill, and certainly creative! No name-calling either; still, I’ll hold judgment until I see a real trend”
F*ck off a*shole! Better?
@justasking
No, I specifically said that the new you was “much better”; this response is truer to form, though.
I thought that you said, in another thread, that you didn’t read my posts anymore? You aren’t very consistent, are you?
@Cogito
So you say I’ve misinterpreted your points; in what way?
Since when is it disrespectful to misinterpret something prior to addressing it?
Sometimes I feel like you are the same person who posted satire under the handle “Feher Gyorgy”, especially when the misspellings seem so obvious and numerous as to be intentional, but this post seemed genuine, so I will continue to answer as if it is, even if there is some question as to who is the bigger fool: a fool, or the person who argues with him.
@ szabad
“Since when is it disrespectful to misinterpret something prior to addressing it?”
Hey, Szabad baby, I am glad that you were able to come up with this question
Now that you have formulated it so nicely, read it slowly, over and over again. Maybe, just maybe, one day you will recognize your stupidity …
I don’t think there is any other way to help you.
@Cogito
Written like a person who can’t answer the question! It’s funny how often you resort to that old canard. You didn’t have an answer to my other questions, either; you never seem to have answers, yet you continue to accuse others of not being clear. Sounds to me like you really have nothing to add to the discourse except bluster and insults, since you don’t really understand what’s going on here. Some of your insults are actually somewhat creative, which is why I don’t agree with others here who think you are just Leto writing under a different handle.
Still, you aren’t even as smart as Leto, which means that you are truly lacking in intelligence. I remain open to revisiting that opinion, if you could ever figure out how to answer any of my questions.
To deconstruct your statement that it is disrespectful to misinterpret something: showing disrespect is, by its very nature, something that is either intentional or the result of a lack of conscientiousness; misinterpretation, on the other hand, is (at least in this sort of situation) a matter of being mistaken. If I misinterpreted something you wrote (which you have not actually shown yet that I have), it was obviously a mistake on my part, and not through a lack of conscientiousness, therefore it could not possibly have been disrespectful. I have been disrespectful towards you in other ways; for instance, by pointing out how ignorant you are and how content-free your posts are.
If you don’t show how misinterpreting something you wrote is disrespectful, you then must agree with my view of the situation; if you didn’t agree, you would be able to show how I’m wrong on this.
I’m guessing that maybe you meant to write that I “misrepresented” what you wrote, which could of course be disrespectful, if I did so on purpose.
Disrespectfully yours,
Szabad Ember
@American in Budapest
“Judges should not be appointed without public debate and testimony. In the US every judge has to be confirmed by the Senate. And under the US system it is quite common for a judge nominee to be rejected.”
Are you trying to say that every country in the world should scrap their systems and just adopt the US one? Does that include your Patriot Act too?
Do I need to remind our great history professor about that some of the passages of it follows word to word of a similar Act of Nazi Germany?
“They will chose judges who share their philosophy, but they are in general not due paying party members who owe their livelihood to the party.”
Right. Can you say more BS like that? That’s why we see changing of Judges every time the Administration changes.
“show little understanding of how political systems work outside Hungary”
You think Hungary has to do what everybody else does?
“The last period of Hungarian democracy before the Wall fell was the Horthy regency.”
Finally something we agree on.
“They will ask themselves why those leftist Germans and Austrians live so well while those nationalist Hungarians live so poorly and ridiculed by the rest of Europe, including Slovakia”
If one does not know the answer why Austrians and (West) Germans live better than Hungarians, than they are stupid.
[I would not be making so boasting statements about Slovakia if I were you – they might be in the shithole soon, just like Hungary.
@DoubleH63
“That’s why we see changing of Judges every time the Administration changes.”
Which judges are you talking about? Judges at the Federal level are appointed for life in the U.S.
“they might be in the shithole soon, just like Hungary”
Unlikely. While misery loves company, I think the Slovaks know enough to stay try & outside the shithole.
WE inherited a mess. Yes, they did! And the next lot are going to be the beneficiaries of an even bigger one.
The king is dead. Long live the king!
You see new Federal judges all the time because the old ones retired. It is not a political purge. Their terms are until they retire.
@Pete H,
“It is not a political purge. Their terms are until they retire”
So, no objection to the retirement law in Hungary?
@justasking
You didn’t read my post, above, or you would not have made yourself look foolish like this. They are judges for life, meaning they decide when they retire.
Even having a retirement age is not the problem with Fidesz’s approach; it’s lowering the retirement age, for no reason other than to get rid of judges who might be too independent. Their argument wasn’t even that older judges might be unable to do their job well; rather, they claimed that they were just lowering the age to match other retirement ages for government workers, as if they can’t just make exceptions for anything they want, at any time.
@SE,
Since I don’t read your posts (usually after the first sentence my eyes have glazed over) and the post you did respond to was directed towards another….who’s the foolish one?
@justasking
“who’s the foolish one?”
The one who asked a question that had already been answered, and that was completely off the mark (not to mention uninformed), since Pete H. probably doesn’t have a problem with retirement per se, just lowering its age for partisan political gain and to destroy judicial independence.
I’m glad to hear that you don’t read my posts anymore… it would shatter the illusion you hold that you are intelligent, informed, and not a jerk, and that might cause you to have a nervous breakdown. Still, if your eyes glaze over, that must mean that you’ve stopped trying to understand what I write, which is a shame, since your English skills might improve. Maybe I should use smaller words…
At least you’re still attempting to insult me; that shows that you haven’t lost your zeal for life!
Perhaps the “noted American” professor should focus on constitutional issues here (and we have plenty) at home in the US rather sticking his nose in another nation’s business.
@Big Fish
So nobody from any country should worry about rights being taken away from people in another country? Is that what you are claiming?
Professor Scheppele’s expertise lies in this subject, and she spent years here in Hungary studying its system, so I’d say she’s got every right and reason to state her opinion about what’s going on here; certainly more than you.