March 16th, 2012

Orbán says Hungary will not be a colony as thousands chant “Viktor, Viktor”

Hungary will not become a colony, Prime Minister Viktor Orban said, addressing a commemoration of the 1848-49 Hungarian revolution and war of independence on Kossuth Square in front of parliament on Thursday afternoon.

Greeted by a crowd of a quarter of a million chanting “Viktor, Viktor”, Orban said that this day, the anniversary of the revolution, belonged to freedom fighters, Kossuth Square would be the square of freedom fighters, and Hungarians are the people of freedom fights. 

“We are the political and intellectual successors of 1848,” Orban said to the crowd, which received him with loud applause. The political and intellectual programme of 1848 embodied the idea that “we will not be a colony”, he added. 

The prime minister expressed thanks to those who joined a pro-government rally dubbed Peace March in January to express their support for the independence of Hungary.

Orban said Hungarians had every reason to follow the example of 1848. For the past 164 years, Hungarians have nurtured the pledge “we will be slaves no longer” from the heroic poem National Song, which is said to have inspired the 1848 revolution.  

“Do we maintain this vow,” Orban asked. Can Hungarians be free if they are suppressed by their debts, if they can only dream about having their own home and if they have to think twice whether they can support another child, he added. The crowd responded to every question with a “no”. 

Ever since the “great month of March,” Hungary has never been as close to freedom as it is today because it has never before been as united as it is today, Orban said.

Nobody should be misled by reports in the international press stating that only a few hundred people showed up in Kossuth Square and even these people protested against the government, he added.

“After long decades we have never been as powerful as we are today and never before have we had as many political, constitutional and economic means to break away from dependency as we have today,” Orban said.

“There are enough of us today, and we are desperate enough to win not only our right to freedom but also our right to be a free Hungary,” Orban said.

Hungary “must spin round its own axis,” and therefore it is necessary to defend its constitution which “represents the pledge of our future,” Orban told the crowd, which chanted “we will protect it” in response.

“We are clearly aware of the weight of this challenge and duty. Hungary today equally needs the radicalism of Petofi, the readiness of Kossuth and the wisdom of Szechenyi,” he added.

Orban said the youth of 1848 already knew what many people in Europe failed to notice today: the issue of financial independence. This is why a demand for an independent national bank was included in the historic twelve demands of the revolutionaries in 1848, he added.

The youth of March, he said, understood that a national bank can only be independent if it protects the Hungarian economy from foreign interests, Orban said to a huge round of applause.

Hungarians often seem to have been left alone with their freedom fights but “we know that we are not alone … our Czech, Lithuanian, Slovenian and Romanian friends stand up for us and they not only stand up for us but are also here with us today. Our Lithuanian and Polish friends have come to celebrate together,” Orban said. Turning to the foreign guests, he said “glory to Lithuania, God save Poland,” and recited the slogan of the Polish legion “for our freedom and for yours” in Hungarian and Polish.

Although Hungary faces plenty of injustices, it should not “plunge into self-pity which is a habit of losers,” Orban said.

“We should not give in to temptation and manoeuvre our ship of Hungary into the calm and lukewarm harbour of cheap self-pity”, the prime minister said. 

“Self-pity and victimhood are habits of losers who explain their failure and incompetence; they have nothing to do with the courage of freedom fighters. Victory, success and the struggle for fair treatment require courage and strength,” the prime minister said.

“We understand that there are many problems in Europe; the cogwheels are rattling and nerves are stretched. But as a nation with a thousand-year history in Europe we have a demand: we demand equality for Hungary,” Orban said. “We refuse to be second-rate European citizens,” he said. He concluded his nearly half-hour speech with his traditional slogan “Go Hungary. Go Hungarians.” The crowd responded by chanting “Viktor, Viktor.”

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  • Speechless

    Hes a raving lunatic…
    What have guys done woring for him

    • Anton Gyorgy

      How dare you, you’ve offended my honor sir. *slaps Speechless with white gloves*

      I officially challange you to a EU membership revote by the Hungarian people!

      Come on Mr PM, let’s do a revote to show these people we can make our own EU. We can start an EU with other countries and we will just increment one of the letters from E to F, to make it one step better! Let’s call it FU!

  • Arg

    Same old, same old. It always boils down to this:
    Viktor will do as the EU and the IMF asks or he can try to
    take Hungary out of the EU and seek the needed money
    elsewhere. I feel sure that he is unwilling to risk
    his suppose mandate on a EU referendum, and finding
    the money Hungary needs outside the IMF may not
    be easy, so he’ll end up doing as asked.
    The austerity programs that the IMF will insist on will do him in. Remember that Hungarians prefer
    prosperity to democracy and in fact, nobody likes
    austerity programs.

    You can stick a fork in Viktor. He’s done.

    • Leto from Arrakis

      “The austerity programs that the IMF will insist on will do him in”

      Certainly, no question that’s been the plan from the beginning. And remember that plans are just plans. It’s hasn’t worked so far and hopefully it won’t work in the future either.

  • Heman Van Rompuy

    Dear Hungarian friends, I wrote you a Haiku.

    Orban, Lunatic Dannabe dictator.
    With the Brain of a Struthio Camelus
    And the Heart of a Chihuahua Puppy.

    Kind regards,
    Heman
    Master of the EUniverse

  • wolfi

    I’m still wondering: Is this for real or just a bad dream ? Will Orbán take Hungary out of the EU into his kind of “freedom” ? Do these people really want that ? Will those Poles also leave the EU ?

    PS: Actually a lot of Germans would be glad if there were again a kind of (hopefully insurmountable)border between Germany and Poland …

    • Dr Camel

      No, it’s not possible to leave the EU at the moment. He would loose all the car manufacturers, we would have mass unemployement, the Forint would slip after that.

      He is just throwing a tantrum, because he has to change his new constitution and reprint all those books and re-make the table.

      • Kovacs

        And this is what make the EU undemocratic. You can’t leave its prison walls.

        • Szabad Ember

          @Kovacs

          No, it’s not a prison, it’s just that leaving would entail many costs that would be more than Hungarians would like to bear. There are always consequences that result from actions, and if you want Hungary to leave the EU, it can be done. There is nothing at all undemocratic about that. You don’t seem to understand what democracy means. You think that the world owes Hungary something extra, simply because we are unhappy. We are treated the same way as everyone else (in fact, even better), and need to take responsibility for our own actions. If our pride and “independence” are the most important things, then we can become a country like North Korea, which relies on no other country (except China). This will be costly, though, so we have to make a decision. No one is going to invade us if we try to leave, like in 1848 and 1956. They will just take their money and investments and leave. That’s what we would do in their shoes, so stop being such a hypocrite.

  • Kovacs

    The politicans who bother me the most are the Merkels, Sarkozys, barosso, Van Rompuy, all of these politicians I just mentioned seem to serve a globalist cabal.

  • M.R.

    This is no good. When politicians in power call in big crowds to talk about crap like “radicalism of Petofi”, you know this is going very wrong direction…

  • MagyarViking

    Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban has launched a scathing attack on the European Union, accusing it of treating the country as a colony.

    Addressing a huge rally in Budapest, the conservative premier said the nation “will not live according to the commands of foreign powers”

    Hungary’s media said at least 100,000 people attended the rally outside the parliament building.

    (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17394894)

  • sheesh

    He speaks so nicely though. So much so that the swelling hearts of hundreds of thousands of Hungarians are squeezing their brains out of their heads.

  • Paul

    “understood that a national bank can only be independent if it protects the Hungarian economy from foreign interests”…he really said this?…something wrong with the translation?

    And he is still wondering why there are no IMF talks yet?

    The whole speech is outdated cheap nationalistic demagogy. Hungary definitely needs IMF/EU support (foreign investors are running away) but VO simply can not afford to have the democracy with a full range of ‘checks and balances’ as in any HEALTHY democracy. If too many are looking over his shoulder the crony system can not continue.
    It is not funny any more. It is sad to see that the average Hungarian will pay a very high price.

    A good translation of the complete speech in English would be very welcome though.

  • Leto from Arrakis

    Correction: as hundreds of thousands chant “Viktor, Viktor”
    :)

    • CAPS LOCKER

      WOOOOOO YEAH!

      VIKTOR VIKTOR VIKTOR!

      LETS LEAVE EU! LETS GO GO GO! WE START WITH OUR UKRAINE FRIENDS

      LETO LETO LETO

      WOOOOOOO VIKTOR VIKTOR VIKTOR.

  • Aloof

    Just a couple of doozies I picked up on:

    * According to Orbán, the Hungarians of today are descendants of the mid-nineteenth-century warriors of freedom. He called the square in front of the Hungarian parliament “the square of the freedom fighters” while forgetting that neither the parliament nor Kossuth square existed in 1848.

    * “we have never been so close to achieving freedom as we are now because we have never been so united.” Funny, there were tens of thousand of folks less than a kilometer away who pretty obviously feel differently.

    * “For long decades we have never had so many political, constitutional, and economic opportunities as we have now.” Is he serious? Hungary is about to fall off an economic cliff due to his policies and his suicidal EU posture. If it wasn’t for the Daimler deal, won by the previous government, he’d be begging on two knees to the EU/IMF for a loan.

    * On opposition: “it is not enough to vote against the evil but evil must be conquered. And it is not enough to conquer it but one must create the good, so the evil couldn’t/can’t return.” Well there is no viable or credible opposition for the forseeable future but his “20 year” plan is already in jeopardy because of his “constitution,” EU posture and failed economic policies. If the EU gives Hungary the boot and he raids the HNB, will that be the wake up call that all is not good in Dodge for the kool aid drinkers?

    * “the European Union is not an alliance of saints but they cannot watch with folded arms while some political and intellectual trend forces an unholy alliance on Europe.” And what he is offering is safe and secure? Where is he going to find “alliances?” A train load of poles and a Czech President?

    * Orbán recalled that in 1848 the radical youth of Pest demanded an independent Hungarian bank. But a national bank mustn’t be independent from the nation but “independent of foreign interests.” Wonder how the Germans will feel about that? Those damn colonists again like CBA right?

    Notice I never used the word democratic because there is nothing democratic (European and forget about US style) about any of this. So he’s on his horse to slay the leaders of the donkeys. And there he goes charging off into oblivion…

    • But Really

      I’m not worried about Viktor and his gang. I’m concerned
      about what he will do to Hungary’s future.

  • Paul

    “Hungary’s future is in the framework of the European Union,” Orban said.

    Isn’t this high treason? EU being the enemy which wants Hungary to become a colony.

  • Joe a American of Magyar descent

    The reason why Hungary is in this economic situation in the first place is because of it’s communist past i.e. Soviet occupation,ex-communists and now they call themselves socialists! Have you actually listened to what Gyurcsany himself said on a recorded speech.How he set the country back at least 10 years economically etc! Orban has to clean up the mess these people(The Left)have created. Is he going to be perfect,No, but who is,Is it the so called “Western Leaders”? It is also time that we go after former Communists as we go after former Nazi’s and charge them with crimes against humanity.It’s been a long time coming FOR THESE CRIMES TO GO UNPUNISHED!
    The former Secret Police files are there in the former communist countries of the “East Bloc” as well as the former Soviet Union! What’s the matter? Are you scared of what you will find? Names,dates, places and Left wing allies in the “West”? The Left(Socialists) of Europe are basically the “carpetbaggers” of this generation pushing through their agenda versus the wishes of the populace!
    I say “Hajra Magyaork es Magyarorszag”!!!!! No rule from Moscow and definately no rule from brussels!!!!!!!
    The left wing has never let the FACTS get in the way!!!
    (F.Y.I.I am a USA Independent allied with zero political

    • Dr Camel

      If someone reads this, and doesn’t see through the facts, that your propaganda is absolutely rubbish and you don’t support your claims with actual figures, I feel sorry for them.

    • FYI

      “The former Secret Police files are there in the former communist countries of the “East Bloc” as well as the former Soviet Union! What’s the matter? Are you scared of what you will find? Names,dates, places and Left wing allies in the “West”?”

      Joe, do you know Hungary never opened secret files from communist regime, in the way how some other post-communist countries did? Do you know who was voting against the law which was to expose people who worked for Communist secret service in Hungary before the fall of communism? It was nobody else but Viktor Orban’s party. What are they hiding?

      • A.

        Why would they hide anything?They have nothing to do with communists!! I do really hope they gonna arrest all the disgusting communists like Gyurcsány who f..ed up the whole country – and also a communist idiot who still lives in the same house they took from the jews – and now Orbán is trying to clean up his mess and not just his but all the mess the communism left us! And to be honest the problem is not with the EU but with the way some politician treated us from the EU, the way they talked about us and about our government and our Prime Minister!! They shouldn’t be questioning our internal politics but of course they do, they even care for our chickens which is quit funny cause when it comes to Slovakia where hungarians lives since they were born and the slovakian government treats them like dogs and they’re not even allowed to speak hungarian, thats internal politics problem and they don’t do anything!Or when they don’t mention january 21 when over a half million people were on the street to show that hell yes, there are still ‘some’ people who wants this government to do their job!!Or when a swedish journalist says that there was tens of thousands of people demonstrating against the government while Orbán has only few people(more then 200.000..few?really?) listening to his speech is quit funny cause i thought there is freedom of speech/press in whole Europe except in Hungary…So.. Who is not telling the truth??Which country doesn’t have democracy?Freedom of speech/press?Whose hiding and what?And if you read the translation of his speech and do not understand what is behind it or you didn’t hear the whole speech and of course u have no idea of the hungarian history,u shouldn’t judge or say a word!!!He said, treat us equal!!We are the part of Europe for more than a thousand year! Western Europe is lucky! They didn’t have to face the communism!

        • Szabad Ember

          @A.

          Wow, you are so wrong in so many ways, I don’t even want to address them all!

          The whole point about freedom of the press is that there are unwarranted and unfair restrictions that keep the opposition from having the same ability to report as the ruling party does. That is definitely the case, as experts in the field have attested. We’re not yet at the point that we were under communism, where the opposition has no voice at all, but we’re heading that way, and the laws put in place will make it easier for Fidesz to completely strangle all voices of dissent, if the EU isn’t able to stop it.

          I suggest that you and those who agree with you work towards holding a referendum on EU membership; then you will see how many Hungarians support whom.

  • Aloof

    @Joe a American of Magyar descent

    Careful Joe, you’re obviously new here.

    Keep this in mind:
    Government corruption during the first Orbán government was worse than at any other time in Hungary’s recent history (until now). The Medgyessy government promised a thorough investigation, but all attempts at prosecuting the cases came to naught as a result of Viktor Orbán’s insurance policy: Péter Polt, the party faithful made chief prosecutor of the land. Polt never found any case even worth investigating.

    Fidesz decided to imitate MSZP practices. The sole difference was that while in MSZP there was tension between the chairman and the treasurer, in Fidesz all power, political and financial, was concentrated in the hands of Viktor Orbán. The “treasurer,” Lajos Simicska, is practically the alter ego of Viktor Orbán. Simicska only imitated MSZP when huge sums of money the party received from the sale of a very valuable building they got free from the Antall government to use as party headquarters were “invested” in assorted companies that were eventually “sold” to fictitious buyers, leaving billions of forints of unpaid taxes behind.

    We won’t even go into “computer gate”… makes you wonder if there will ever be an honest government here. Actually says a lot more than that…

    Callin’ a spade a spade…

  • Neighbour

    Nice speech Viktor, congratulation. However, you forgot to say that in the March 1848 not only Magyars requiered freedom. Within the kingdom there were also Slovaks, Romanians, Serbians and so on who wanted exactly the same. Unfortunately, Magyars rejected rightful demands of other nations living in the common kingdom and this was a beginning of the problems between Magyars and all their neighbours. The NO said in March 1848 by Magyars and the forced magyarization starting after the revolution led to the end of the kingdom after the WWI.

    • Leto from Arrakis

      What actually happened that the Habsburgs incited the Croatians, Serbian and the Rumanians and they stabbed the Hungarian revolution and freedom fight in the back. The Slovaks did the same but in the end many more Slovak peasants chose to fight in the Hungarian than in the Hapsburg one.
      -http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magyarorsz%C3%A1gi_nemzetis%C3%A9gek_1848-49-ben#A_szlov.C3.A1k_nemzetis.C3.A9gi_mozgalom

  • qweee

    “We refuse to be second-rate European citizens” Ok just start behaving like a European leader: that is the first step, moron. Hungary will never be respected until its leaders are so ridiculous. You NEED IMF and EU money, Viktor. But IMF and EU do NOT need Hungary at all. Do not forget it.

  • Aloof

    @Neighbour

    Yeah a lot of folks keep forgetting that the 1848 revolutions also know as the “Spring of Nations”, which encompassed nearly 50 countries, were for the most part catastrophic failures and crushed. Best thing that came out it in these parts was the abolition of the feudal system.

    ’56 was also a catastrophic failure which resulted in 40 years of Soviet Occupation.

    In both noble causes Hungarians had every right to want freedom and are to be admired for that. But being right doesn’t equate to success in so many situations in life but that spirit can never be compromised for a person who wants to be free.

    OV has a lot of folks drinking his kool aid and I strongly feel that he is actually preying upon those long held noble Hungarian sentiments.

    This one I’m not buying. His deeds don’t match his words and he’s playing a dangerous disingenous game.

    To quote OV from yesterday: “We are more than familiar with the character of unsolicited comradely assistance, even if it comes wearing a finely tailored suit and not a uniform with shoulder patches.”

    It isn’t comradely advice that is being offered Hungary at the moment though. It is partners demanding that the country adhere to the legal agreements it entered into and signed up for when it joined the EU.

    He’s laid his cards on the table and the EU is going to lay down theirs. He’d be broke if he was a poker player and he’s going to lose this one big time if he doesn’t wake up.

  • fdsd

    I am glad Hungary is not willing to bend over to the zionist bank cartels that are subjugating countries like Spain, Portugal and Greece.
    The European Union is a scam that has already failed.
    I hope Hungary goes the way of Iceland, which refused to be a puppet to the IMF and the EU, defaulted on their debt, and they are doing just fine right now.

    • Szabad Ember

      @fdsd

      Ah, so you believe that just because Hungary and all those other countries borrowed money, it doesn’t mean that anyone has to pay it back. If you had been the one loaning the money (like the Germans), you would want it back, I’m sure. That makes you a hypocrite.

      Aside from that, there is the reality that if Hungary defaults, it will not be able to borrow money again for a long time, its currency will fall like a wounded turul, and most of us (with the exception of the Fidesz leaders and their friends who have grown rich by robbing the Hungarian taxpayers) will be lucky to have jobs and enough money to repair the holes in our roofs.

      I’m no fan of banks, but I’m not willing to live in poverty just to spite them. All we have to do is reform our government and economy and wait for Germany’s growth to increase, and our debt will pay itself off. Of course, that presupposes that a competent, honest government is in charge; I guess you’re right, we’re going to have to default eventually; it might as well be now.

      • fdsd

        Icelanders are not living in “poverty” as you claim after they defaulted on their debt.
        The idea that if a nation defaults on their debt, it will be the end, is nothing but propaganda put out by the banking cartel who are afraid of losing their money.
        Hungary is lucky that it is not enslaved to the Euro (like Greece is), at least it can devalue its currency and attract tourism and employers looking for cheap labor.
        Argentina and Iceland have already been through this and they are doing great, without the need of the zionist banking cartel.

        If you were stupid enough to get in debt with a European bank outside of Euro, that is YOUR fault, there is no need to enslave an entire nation because of idiots like you who obviously don’t know the perils of DEBT.

        • Szabad Ember

          @fdsd

          I said Hungary would be living in poverty, not Iceland or Argentina. Argentina exports a lot of natural resources and agricultural products, prices for which have been very high over the past 11 years, since they defaulted. Growth has had difficulty keeping up with inflation since the default (which was not a full default, but was similar to what Greece recently did, a debt restructure). Even with those advantages, however, Argentina is still poorer than Hungary, partially because of the inflation rate and partially because it had a lot of ground to make up after the massive drop in its GDP around the time of the default. Is that the path you want for Hungary?

          Iceland is a very unusual case, since it is a tiny country with an abundant natural resource: rich fishing grounds. Hungary’s only natural resource that it can export is shale gas, which is expensive and difficult to extract (not to mention environmentally destructive), and which is abundant throughout Europe. That means that Hungary cannot benefit much from exporting it, because there will soon be a glut of natural gas that would make Hungary’s gas uneconomic to build pipeline networks for. Hopefully we will benefit from a reduction in energy costs, but since everyone else in the region will also have that benefit, we will not be better off in a relative sense.

          Also, I didn’t get in debt in a foreign currency, so your remark about my being an idiot is completely uninformed and baseless; I’m fully aware of the perils of debt and have no problems with debt at all. The ones to blame would be Fidesz, who started building the huge national debt we are now dealing with back at the end of their first term in power.

          • fdsd

            One more time, if Hungary defaults on it debt, it won’t be living in “poverty”. That is just non-sense.
            Sure, imports will get expensive and GDP will drop for a while, but the country will recover, just like Argentina and Iceland did.

            Would you rather have an economic recession NOW, or be endebted and enslaved to the zionist banks forever, like Greece, Spain, Portugal and Ireland?

            If your personal debt is in Forints to a Hungarian bank, then you have nothing to worry about, the ones that have to worry are the Hungarian banks, who most likely are in debt with the zionist banking Cartel outside of Europe.

            Hungary has to stand as a nation against the banking cartel, if you don’t, Hungary will follow the path of Greece.
            If you think things are bad, just wait until the Euro eventually collapses.

          • Schmitty

            @fdsd

            Write to your officials, let’s have an EU revote!

          • Szabad Ember

            @fdsd

            Everything is relative, and growth will plunge if Hungary leaves the EU, therefore, it will feel like poverty, compared to what we’re used to, and the situation will last for many years. Look up the numbers for Argentina, if you don’t believe me. You know nothing about economics, otherwise you wouldn’t be trying to claim any of this nonsense.

      • Kovacs

        Szabad shouldn’t you be running off to Israel or washington dc with your anti-Hungarian garbage.

        • Szabad Ember

          @Kovacs

          Just because you disagree with what I have to say does not make it anti-Hungarian. Your uninformed, self-serving rhetoric is what is truly anti-Hungarian, since it will only end up hurting Hungarians both economically and socially. There are numerous examples that support my claims, such as the fact that most countries that adopt IMF reforms do well, while most governments that defy the IMF and the EU are doing so only to continue to be able to run their autocratic theftocracies without opposition. That also describes what Fidesz is doing, and every true Hungarian patriot should be resisting them.

  • fdsd

    To all the zionists who claim that Hungary “needs” the EU and the IMF.. do a little research about Argentina, who gave the IMF the middle finger and defaulted on their “debt” back in the early 2000′s
    Look at Argentina now, it recovered and they are doing great, without the “help” of the IMF and their debt that enslaves nations to the zionist banking cartels.

    • Szabad Ember

      @fdsd

      Your conflation of zionism with the EU and the IMF is completely nonsensical. If anything, the EU is more supportive of Palestine than Israel. The IMF is merely the collective will of its members, including countries that could never be accused of supporting zionism, such as Saudi Arabia and Venezuela.

      Instead of just spouting whatever you read on extreme-right-wing and anti-Semite websites, try doing a little research first; that way, you sound a little less like an idiot.

      Argentina has almost finally recovered, 11 years after its default. Hungary need not suffer the same fate. Look at Thailand, Indonesia, and South Korea, who turned to the IMF during the Asian financial crisis of 1997; they are doing so very much better than before, since they undertook reforms that were suggested by the experts at the IMF. I would prefer that Hungary follow the lead of those countries, rather than the long, painful path taken by Argentina.

      Look it up, if you don’t believe me.

    • fdsd

      The idea that the EU is “supportive” of Palestine is nonsense. Palestinians are just being given handouts, and are totally dependent on them, because that is what the zionist banking cartels want.
      The Zionists want to control Palestine just like they control the USA now.. buying and controlling politicians, judges and presidents.

      The PA “government” that rules the West Bank are nothing but Israeli Puppets.. the Gaza strip and Hamas refuse to surrender and become slaves to the zionists, which is why they are being bombed to death.

      Hungary is not an Asian nation, and it will never be.
      To think that if the IMF “helps” Hungary to get into further dept and convert it into Malaysia or North Korea is just silly.
      Look at what the IMF and the EU has done to Europe.. Greece, Spain, Ireland..
      Just wait until the Euro ceases to exist to see how great the IMF and EU is.

      • Szabad Ember

        @fdsd

        Funny how you and other anti-semites are the only ones who don’t like what the EU is doing in Palestine; Saudi Arabia, no friend of Israel, is partnered with the EU in these programs of aid to the PA, along with many other Muslim countries. Hamas is giving Israel the excuse it needs to continue the occupation, so that it can continue to benefit financially from the situation. The reason they get bombed is because they keep firing missiles into Israel, targeting civilians.

        What difference does it make whether Hungary is an Asian nation? Are you saying we’re not as good as Asians?

        Your remark about the IMF turning Hungary into North Korea is just moronic; North Korea doesn’t get aid from the IMF. You and your kind are the ones who want to turn Hungary into North Korea, but taking us out of the free world and allying us with Russia, Iran, and Venezuela.

        You know nothing about the IMF; Greece and Ireland got into their situations through their own actions, and the IMF was asked by them to come and help. In fact, before the financial crisis, many other EU countries told Ireland to change their policies, because they were reckless. Greece just lied about their debt in order to avoid having to collect taxes and reform their economy. Spain was just a relatively innocent bystander of the global financial crisis, which was definitely not the fault of the IMF or the EU. The main thing Spain could’ve done better would’ve been to try to control the excessive building that resulted in overcapacity that continues to weigh down their economy.

        The IMF has nothing to do with the euro; in fact, the euro makes the IMF’s job more difficult, since it rules out some of the things that the IMF normally would advise to do to help the economies of Greece and Ireland. The EU was doing very well before the euro, and will do well even if it decides to abandon the euro.

  • Aloof

    @fdsd
    Iceland is a “country” of barely over 300K people. Officially applied to the EU July 17, 2009 with ascension probable later this year, (maybe they can replace Hungary eh?). They’re also a member of the UN, NATO, EFTA and OECD. Their biggest concern about EU membership is loss of control of their natural resources which is being mitigated. Their 3 largest domestic banks failed and the government and the central bank stepped in to take them over sans foreign debts or assets. New banks were established and the old banks were left to fail. IMF loan greased the wheels along with 4B euros from nordic countries to right the ship.

    Yeah they’re doing fine now thanks to the IMF and their friends. If Hungary leaves the EU and gives the IMF the middle finger, who are YOUR friends that are going to finance you?

    PS: Iceland has 35-45 Jews… happy now?

  • fdsd

    This is an example of how the zionist banks have enslaved European nations:

    Italy pays JP Morgan 3.4 BILLION:
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-16/italy-said-to-pay-morgan-stanley-3-4-billion-to-exit-derivative.html

  • Aloof

    @fdsd
    Iceland is a “country” of barely over 300K people. Officially applied to the EU July 17, 2009 with ascension probable later this year, (maybe they can replace Hungary eh?). They’re also a member of the UN, NATO, EFTA and OECD. Their biggest concern about EU membership is loss of control of their natural resources which is being mitigated. Their 3 largest domestic banks failed and the government and the central bank stepped in to take them over sans foreign debts or assets. New banks were established and the old banks were left to fail. IMF loan greased the wheels along with 4B euros from nordic countries to right the ship.

    Yeah they’re doing fine now thanks to the IMF and their friends. If Hungary leaves the EU and gives the IMF the middle finger, who are YOUR friends that are going to finance you?

    PS: Iceland has 35-45 Jews… happy now?

  • laszlo

    all you com.is are aHOLES.

  • sax
  • sax

    First of all, out of the 27 EU countries there are only seven that have lower deficit than Hungary, yet nobody is planning such punishment against them. The worst delinquents are (2010 data):
    Ireland (-32.4%), Greece (-10.5%), the United Kingdom (-10.4%), Spain (-9.2%), Portugal (-9.1%), Poland (-7.9%), Slovakia (-7.9%), Latvia (-7.7%), Lithuania (-7.1%) and France (-7.0%).

    • fdsd

      Hungary is being “punished” by the EU, because they refuse to play along with the zionist banking cartel / IMF’s plans to takeover Hungary’s economy.
      Also, no other country in Europe has an anti-zionist political party (jobbik), and this upsets the zionists very much.
      We should be proud of this!

      • Kovacs

        FDSD

        Belarus is also another country that the EU/USA want to replace the leadership but its not cracking.

    • Pipo

      Sax, you are one brigh economic genius, aren’t you?!!

    • Neighbour

      As we are in the year 2012 we should talk about deficits in 2011. Further, your deficit was low because Orban had nationalized the private pension savings. It was a single-shot act which you cannot repeat any more. Without it your deficit would be much higher.

    • Szabad Ember

      @Sax

      “out of the 27 EU countries there are only seven that have lower deficit than Hungary, yet nobody is planning such punishment against them.”

      That’s an old argument, since it has been made very clear that Hungary is being singled out because of its overall policies and actions, not just because it is breaking the deficit rule. It is the only country that is defying the EU while refusing to seriously negotiate with the IMF (despite what Orbán and others say about waiting for the IMF to come to the table). Defiance can sometimes be a good thing, but Fidesz seems to be trying to defy everyone at the same time, while still asking for their help. This is the EU’s response to all of that, and Orbán can’t blame anyone else for his actions.

  • Aloof

    @fdsd
    It’s the 21st century man. Nobody is going back to the 19th century so you’re going to have to come up with something better or new. The “zionist” crap, and I’m an atheist, is just more extreme right propaganda or in some cases like the UK extreme left propaganda. Either way it’s extreme and anybody that drills down into the facts it doesn’t ring true. You just want folks to buy into your brand of kool aid. The crap you’ve spewed in this thread alone could fertilize a field for a year.

    • fdsd

      @aloof
      You can be an atheist or you can believe in the Easter Bunny, but that still doesn’t change the sad reality that most people (except you, obviously) live in..

      A couple of FACTS:
      -The Israeli Mossad and the CIA have carried out international assassinations and toppled governments.
      Many books have been written about this, do some reading instead of watching your “21st century TV” crap.

      -The IMF imposes strict rules for “lending” money to countries, namely the privatization of most state owned utilities, banks,etc, pretty much anything that can be privatized.
      The privatization process means usually American multi-national corporations and banks (controlled by your zionist friends) take control.
      This is exactly what happened in Argentina.

      If you are in doubt of who really controls the IMF, do a little research and figure out by yourself.. but that may be asking too much from a feeble mind like yours.

      • fdsd

        To anyone thinking i am talking “crap”
        check out:

        en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Monetary_Fund#Criticism

        Even Joseph Stieglitz (who is jewish, but NOT a zionist), Nobel Prize winner and former head of the IMF was fired because of his criticism of IMF’s policies. He even wrote a book about it:

        en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globalization_and_Its_Discontents

  • Kovacs

    I wouldn’t be suprised if the EU leadership or CIA try to kill or remove Orban from office. Anyone who doesn’t play the game gets removed by western imperialists. See Saddam and Gaddafi

    • It seems

      Oh Boy! I just love a good conspiracy!

    • Dr Camel

      Leto., please seek help, for Christ sake. You’re working yourself into a frenzy.

      • It seems

        But don’t you just love a good conspiracy? Great fun,
        I think, but, of course, I’m just a post commie moron,
        blah, blah, blah

  • fdsd

    Iceland is paying its IMF and Nordic loans ahead of schedule, and chances are, they will repay it all and get out of the perpetual IMF debt that besieges most of the country.
    According to the IMF website:

    Together with a scheduled payment made in February 2012, this early repayment will reduce Iceland’s outstanding obligation to the IMF to SDR 1.041 billion (about US$1.60 billion). This outstanding balance is projected to be repaid during 2012-16.

    So Iceland are not doing so bad, despite having only 300k inhabitants.

    The moral of the story is, It is ok for Hungary to let its bank default on their bebt. It is not the end of the world, Hungary, like Iceland will be fine.

  • fdsd

    Iceland is paying its IMF and Nordic loans ahead of schedule, and chances are, they will repay it all and get out of the perpetual IMF debt that besieges most of the country.
    According to the IMF website:

    Together with a scheduled payment made in February 2012, this early repayment will reduce Iceland’s outstanding obligation to the IMF to SDR 1.041 billion (about US$1.60 billion). This outstanding balance is projected to be repaid during 2012-16.

    So Iceland are not doing so bad, despite having only 300k inhabitants.

    The moral of the story is, It is ok for Hungary to let its bank default on their bebt. It is not the end of the world, Hungary, like Iceland will be fine…

    • It seems

      You should read the section about the effects of the
      default on Ice Land.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%932011_Icelandic_financial_crisis#Bank_restructuring

    • Szabad Ember

      @fdsd

      “It is not the end of the world, Hungary, like Iceland will be fine…”

      As I pointed out in another thread, Iceland is not a good comparison. Iceland has rich fishing waters that it can easily use to boost exports, and has been doing just that since the financial crisis. What does Hungary have that the rest of the world wants, if it’s not in the EU? If you say agricultural products, then why do such products currently only account for a very small percentage of output? Because Hungary has too many people and inefficient farms. Our natural strength lies in our educated population, as well as our position at the center of Europe. If we leave the EU or default, we will be destroying the second strength.

      You are obviously not an independent thinker with knowledge about economics and business. You are merely an ideologue who can only parrot what you read on extreme-right-wing anti-zionist websites. If you actually cared about Hungary, you would stop wasting your time on hating small groups of people and start thinking of creative, realistic ways to improve our economy and political system. Until then, you really don’t have anything constructive to add, here.

      • fdsd

        Anti-Zionism is not about “hating” a small group of people, it is about being aware of the economical and political policies that shape the US and EU.

        You obviously have NO CLUE about Hungary’s economy.
        Do a search for “Economy of Hungary” in wikipedia.

        Hungary’s economy was raped in the 90′s thanks to the privatization of the IMF (just like Russia was raped by the zionist Harvard boys)
        Its economy has been in the toilet ever since Hungary started to follow the IMF’s policies, getting into deeper and deeper debt with the IMF in each economical crisis, handing over its entire economy to foreign multi-nationals.
        Obviously IMF’s policies haven’t worked in Hungary, HAVE THEY? otherwise, why is the country in such bad economic shape. Where are the Hungarian industries?
        What happened to the billions of dollars of foreign “investment”??

        Stop spewing your zionist agenda here.
        Most of the country is behind Orban, whether you like it or not.

        • Paul

          @fdsd

          “Stop spewing your Zionist agenda here.
          Most of the country is behind Orban, whether you like it or not.”
          I doubt it…and the overall majority of the EU figured VO out…they do not like what they see…no trust left…like it or not.

          Any empathy about what happened in Toulouse today, by the way. Any opinion about your brother in arms Zsolt Bayer known for his anti-semitic opinions in this context?

        • Szabad Ember

          @fdsd

          You’re the one who has no clue about the Hungarian economy. It was growing strongly until the global financial crisis, and most of its problems stem from corruption and excessive debt (much of it accumulated during Fidesz’s first term). If you think that Hungary is so different from all the other countries that have done well under IMF tutelage, then why is it that many of the “reforms” that Orbán has instituted are actually those that were proposed by the IMF?

          If you have been in Hungary for the past 10 years, you would see that the standard of living has increased dramatically for the majority of the population, despite all the problems. That foreign investment is still creating jobs in Hungary; witness the Audi factory. The loans that the IMF are giving Hungary just replace loans that the Hungarian government took out on their own volition on the commercial market.

          In the 1990s, the same things happened in Hungary that happened in all the countries in the region, so how do you explain the fact that Slovakia, Poland, et al are doing so much better than Hungary right now? Yes, mistakes were made in Russia, just as mistakes are made every day in every field, but we’re talking about the overall IMF approach, which is sensible and proven, not about the theories of right-wing economists in the 1990s. If you had any clue about economics, you would know the difference.

          Small countries cannot hope to control every industry and still have significant, lasting growth, unless they have some large exports of natural resources. This has been proven time and again, but you don’t bother to read the literature on the subject, and just slavishly spout the extreme-right-wing propaganda on the subject.

          If most of the country is behind Orbán, then why do 75% of people say that the work the government is doing is “unsatisfactory”?

  • fdsd

    Read one of the most popular comments on the youtube video:

    \EU is just a dictatorships of banking and financial speculation oligarchies. typically zionist\

    Most and more people all over the world are waking up to the zionists.

  • fdsd

    Everything that i have posted about Orban here is true and can be corroborated here

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Orb%C3%A1n

    Quote:
    He also took some weak measures to secure his country’s financial independence, cutting ties with Jewish financial institutions such as the IMF and restricting banking.

    His foreign policy emphasizes a slow drift from the EU and the USA towards China, Russia and Iran.

    Zionist reactions

    Because of his decisions, Orbán was often attacked by western liberal press (newspapers like Le Monde and Der Spiegel), ridiculously likening him to Hitler and Mussolini. The largest zionist-liberal news portal in Hungary openly called for the EU to violently despose of him and install their own even more judeo-bolshevic candidate instead.”

    • Curious George

      @fdsd – You’re a despicable liar & a loser. The quote you mentioned was taken from an anti-semitic website meant for morons.

      • fdsd

        The only moron is you and your typical zionist propaganda.
        Anti-Zionism does NOT equal Anti-Semitism.

        • Pipo

          Tell that to the innocent teenagers who died in Toulouse. Hate = hate => should be stopped!!

          • fdsd

            Tell that to the innocent children who died last week in the Gaza strip thanks to the Israeli bombs.

            Zionism = racism.

        • Curious George

          @fdsd – You are a liar for deliberately posting a fake quote, & a stupid moron if you think I have any interest in spreading zionist propaganda.
          No, you are an anti-semite, clear & simple. What’s with the new nick?

      • Leto from Arrakis

        On the other hand these newspapers do like comparing Orbán to Hitler and Mussolini indeed. Okay, they may not have been the only ones.

  • Re-Vote

    Let the Hungarian people decide what they want: The EU or Orban.
    It seems they cannot have both.
    Time for another referendum.

    • Leto from Arrakis

      We can have both Orbán and a European Union as meant to be: a union of equal status, souverign nations. Currently EU doesn’t qualify for this at all but we’ll help in that, all right?

  • Aloof

    @fdsd
    You didn’t absorb a single thing I posted at you. Iceland wouldn’t have recovered in the first place without an IMF loan and they were very grateful that they got one.

    Hungary is part of the EU therefore Hungary is part of your diseased conspiracy theory rotted mind. There is no use having a reasoned conversation with people like you because you don’t want debate you just want to spew.

    Your buddy OV said he was going to get rid of all the oligarchs and all he is doing is creating new ones. You and folks like you are beyond hypocrites. Get out of the EU if you don’t like it and then very good luck.

    • fdsd

      @Aloof:
      Stop the lies.
      Iceland would have recovered without the IMF’s help, just like Argentina did.
      The IMF loaned Iceland money to protect the zionist banks from losing even more money, not to “help” Iceland, just like the Greek bailout is not going to the people of Greece, but to the banks who own Greek debt.

      Nobody believes your zionist non-sense anymore.

      • Szabad Ember

        @fdsd

        As I’ve said here before, if a country defaults on its debts, it can’t get credit. The IMF essentially took over the debts, becoming the lender of last resort, because that is a way of allowing Iceland to get back into the commercial debt market sooner.

        You don’t mention the fact that the banks in question are mostly funded through the deposits of millions of ordinary people, plus the pension funds of millions of other people. The taxpayers also end up paying when banks go bust, which could happen if one country defaults. Therefore stop pretending it’s just some jewish people who will lose money, because you’re obviously lying about that; nobody could be so clueless.

  • spectator

    “We are the political and intellectual successors of 1848”

    Well, as I remember, the revolution ended in a severe retribution, with countless victims and decades of suffering till the consolidation, the consensus in 1867.

    I would rather recommend to Mr.Orban to look up the facts, before he talking about.
    Unless, of course, if it was a prediction…

  • Andy

    The usual pablum intended for domestic voters only. Why doesn’t Viktor leave the EU or put it up to a referendum? Ah, we want pick out the good virsli but leave the potatoes.

  • Punisher

    The way of life of a country is the direct consequence of its people’s mentality.No better example than Hungary. Only a country of idiots will believe the B.S. of this guy, and worse, follow him. You guys are going so bankrupt, and when this guy finally forfeits the very people that can save you guys form bankruptcy, another chapter on your pathetic history of greed and mismanagement will be written.and then his dwarf will appear in the media claiming “the poles made me do it” “Barroso made me do it” “it is an EU conspiracy” while the Hungarians starve on the streets , helpless and isolated, once more, on their knees (the way it seems you guys like it) Unite and work for a better future, or dissolve your joke of a country.

  • Aloof

    @Leto the everlasting one sided cherry picker March 19, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    “What actually happened…”

    Forgot to mention what else actually happened as usual:

    March 15, 1848 was the day that a group of Magyar nationalists rioted in Pest-Buda demanding political autonomy for Hungary from Austria. This resulted in Klemens von Metternich, the Austrian prince and foreign minister, resigning. In turn, Emperor Ferdinand promised Hungary a constitution, an elected parliament, and the end of censorship. The new government, led by ministers Széchenyi and Kossuth, imposed the Magyar language on all the other nationalities in Hungary. This angered many people, and uprisings followed. Austria took back Hungary after one and a half years of fighting when Russian Tsar Nicholas I marched into Hungary with over 300,000 troops. Hungary was thus placed under brutal martial law, with the Austrian government restored to its original position.

    Translation: got your ass handed to you again… see revolutions of 1848…

    • Leto from Arrakis

      Actually what happened was that Habsburgs first thought their own army, plus using the century old card of playing the subjugated nations against each other would be enough to crush the Hungarians. They were wrong and they had to call for Russian help in the end. And the powerful Russian expedition army did the job for them. That’s all.

      • Szabad Ember

        @Leto

        Your simplistic denial of what Aloof said is pretty pathetic, considering that you don’t even bother to explain why you think what he wrote was wrong.

    • justasking aka Proud Catholic

      @Aloof,

      “March 15, 1848 was the day that a group of Magyar nationalists rioted in Pest-Buda demanding political autonomy for Hungary from Austria”

      Now why would they do that? I mean…what’s wrong with being occupied?
      ———–

      “The new government, led by ministers Széchenyi and Kossuth, imposed the Magyar language on all the other nationalities in Hungary”

      Forcing people to speak the official language of the country in which they reside before they were occupied…what animals!!!

      Imagine if the US were to demanded that all their citizens speak English…simply because it’s their country?
      ——

      “Austria took back Hungary after one and a half years of fighting when Russian Tsar Nicholas I marched into Hungary with over 300,000 troops”

      You mean…the Austrians couldn’t do it on their own?
      Not being able to ward off an uprising from a country you’re occupying without outside help.

      Hmmm, if anything, wouldn’t the Hapsburg’s be ‘getting their asses handed back to them’ if not for the Russians? Not the Hungarians?

      Just asking.

      • justasking

        sorry about the handle…the aka part was to make a point with another poster.

      • Szabad Ember

        @Justasking

        “Imagine if the US were to demanded that all their citizens speak English…simply because it’s their country?”

        You would have to imagine it, since it’s never happened. Look it up; there are groups of people in the US who speak little or no English, yet they were born in the US and participate in civic life. I’m not just talking about children of immigrants, either.

  • fdsd

    Typical zionist propaganda.
    Anti-Zionism does NOT equal Anti-Semitism.

    • Pipo

      Once again, Leto aka fdsd, tell that to the innocent teenagers who died in Toulouse. Stop acting/psoting like an imbecile and take some responsibilities for your continuous hate speech.

      • fdsd

        why don’t you stop YOUR hate speech?
        How about the innocent children and civilians that were killed in Israel’s attacks in the Gaza strip last week?
        Are they not worthy because they are Palestinian?

        You are just another racist zionist.

        • Szabad Ember

          @fdsd

          You don’t even know the meaning of the term “hate speech”. Nobody is saying that innocent people who die in Gaza deserved to die, and Israel was not targeting them. As much as I detest what Israel does politically in the occupied territories, I can’t say that it doesn’t have the right to defend itself against missiles launched against it. It is the responsibility of those launching those missiles to stay away from areas where the inevitable retaliatory strikes might harm innocents. Instead, they try to ensure that Israel will accidentally kill children, so they can score a propaganda success with people like you. Meanwhile, you compare accidental deaths in combat with assassinations of completely innocent children chosen for execution because of their religion. You’re disgusting, and you make people like me, who might otherwise be against Israel, feel the need to defend it. Maybe you’re being paid by the Israeli government to discredit anti-Semites, in the same way that Leto is being paid by Fidesz to spread its propaganda and other lies.

          • Leto from Arrakis

            Oh, a little bit of check on reality:

            Palestinian kids as human shields: -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXq57XK2L0A

          • Szabad Ember

            @Leto

            So you’re saying that Israel does horrible things; no argument from me. You don’t address the point that Palestinians use their OWN children as human shields, in order to elicit international sympathy. Also, you don’t address my point that Israel is retaliating against military targets in Gaza in response to missile strikes against civilian targets. As usual, you’re trying to shift the argument to make yourself look better, while not addressing my points.

            Oh, and what’s with the anti-Semite thing? I thought you were all about defending Fidesz, which has plenty of Jewish folks in its ranks.

          • Curious George

            @SE – I dont want to take you away from educating Leto, but, sorry, but the Palestinians do NOT use their children as shields. I have been to the occupied territories, and they are very densely populated. Just because the terrorists are limited in where they choose to operate, doesn’t mean Palestinians as a group, like it when Al Aqsa or Al-Qasam choose to build or launch their weapons in their neighbourhoods, leaving them & their children open to Israeli reprisals. The terrorists do not care who they kill in achieving their objective, but it is not correct to say that the Palestinians use their children as shields.

            As someone who has an Isra*li business partner who is a reserve media officer & 2 nephews who are IDF trained ex-soldiers & other prior contacts, I can assure you that avoiding collateral civilian Palestinian damage was never a high priority. The Isra*lis are fully aware that there are civilians around when they launch their strikes, but those lives are cheap & inconsequential.

          • Leto of Arrakis

            The vile postcommie moron writes in response to my post which refers to well-documented cases when IDF used Palestinian kids as human shields:

            “Oh, and what’s with the anti-Semite thing? I thought you were all about defending Fidesz, which has plenty of Jewish folks in its ranks.”

            This really speaks for itself… Ecce Homo Szadomaszopicus. It’s the sea in a drop of water because it demonstrates so well what a typical szadeszkretén (SZDSZ-cretin) is like.

          • Leto of Arrakis

            @postcommie moron:

            Vow, now you have really exposed yourself.

            My post which simply referred to well-documented cases when IDF used Palestinian kids as human shields is anti-Semitism in your book. How familiar. :D

          • Szabad Ember

            @Curious George

            I appreciate your point of view, but I wasn’t saying that all Palestinians use Palestinian children as human shields, just like I wasn’t saying that all Israelis commit war crimes. It’s quite clear that when one of those missile-launching teams chooses a spot from which to launch missiles, it seems to have no problem choosing a spot where children will be killed, so it is probably intentional. Gaza is not so crowded that they couldn’t find a relatively clear area to fire from, or at least tell everyone in the area to clear out for a few minutes. If I were launching missiles in a guerrilla war, that’s how I would do it, since I don’t like to see any children die, especially those of my countrymen. If you disagree, say specifically why you feel that they are not using their children in this manner, because you neglected to do so in your most recent post.

          • Szabad Ember

            @Leto

            As usual, you make claims without substantiating them in any way.

            Yes, your post is anti-Semitism, because I pointed out some despicable things that Palestinians do, and your response was to point out some despicable things that Israelis do. If you were not an anti-semite, you wouldn’t jump to defend a blatant anti-Semite like fdsd. Also, you would first acknowledge the crimes committed by the Palestinians. Finally, why do you even bother attacking Israel in the first place? Aren’t there dozens of other, worse crimes being committed in the world? I don’t see you attacking Turkey for their treatment of the Kurds, or Morocco for their treatment of the Sahrawi, or Sudan for their treatment of the Dinka, etc., etc.

            You and so many other right-wingers on this site like to pretend that you are just so upset about the treatment of Palestinians that you must speak up against Israel, ad nauseam, and it has nothing to do with the fact that Israel is majority Jewish. It’s gotten to the point where most people don’t even notice it, but I must now point out your colossal hypocrisy in this matter.

            I frequently criticize Israel, since it is mistreating Palestinians in many ways, and trying to create an apartheid state. However, I also criticize other countries regularly, especially countries like Sudan that are much more abusive to their own people or those under their occupation. You and others are focusing almost exclusively on Israel and the EU, without mentioning the horrible things done to the citizens of China, Russia, and Iran by their own governments. You are therefore the one who regularly exposes himself as a liar, hypocrite, and bigot.

            Leto, do you believe that fdsd is an anti-Semite? If not, why not? You won’t answer this, since that would further expose your hypocrisy, but your non-answer is answer enough.

          • Curious George

            SE – Appreciate that you don’t categorise all Palestinians such. The Gaza strip is either densely populated, or open ground. My guess is that they terrorist realize that using open ground would make them sitting ducks and therefore ineffective. Firing from anywhere in the densely populated Gaza strip where there is any cover, would probably put them in proximity with the local population, especially children, who are quite likely to be playing outdoors. As I said before (also to Aloof), these terrorists don’t discriminate against who they kill, whether it’s the enemy, their own kind, or themselves, so long as they achieve their objective.

          • Szabad Ember

            @Curious George

            Yes, I agree, terrorists don’t care, and that’s my point. Hamas should care, and they have essentially a dictatorship in the territory, so they could stop those teams from firing, yet they don’t.

            If it were you, and you were fighting a war of independence against an occupying foreign force, would you draw fire from said enemy into densely occupied areas without making sure that the civilians left before there was a chance of retaliatory fire hitting them? If there were no way to do so effectively, would you then decide to continue readying and firing those missiles, regardless of the civilian toll?

            I’m not indicting all Palestinians, of course, I’m just responding to the hatred and hypocrisy on this site by pointing out the flaws in some false, one-sided arguments. That’s what I do here, as much as possible.

          • Leto Muad’dib

            @postcommie idiot:

            fdsd is an anti-Semite and you’re a philo-Semite. It’s the two sides of the same coin.
            Anyway, I’ve had enough of this topic here. Keep ranting ad nauseam.

          • SE aka Szabad Ember

            @Leto

            “and you’re a philo-Semite. ”

            This is not my style, but I really have to point out what a moron you are. Only a moron would see how I describe the Israelis as being just as culpable as Hamas, then call me a “philo-Semite”.

  • Aloof

    @fdsd March 19, 2012 at 3:54 pm

    “Tell that to the innocent children who died last week in the Gaza strip thanks to the Israeli bombs. Zionism = racism.”

    This should keep you busy for awhile…

    Let’s start with a 1967 Hungarian Joke: During the June 1967 war, a Hungarian meets his friend. “Why do you look so happy?” he asks. “I heard that the Israelis shot down six Soviet-made MiGs today,” his friend replies. The next day, the friend looks even more jubilant. “The Israelis downed another eight MiGs,” he announces. On the third day, the friend is crestfallen. “What happened? Didn’t the Israelis down any MiGs today?” the man asks. “They did,” the friend answers, “But today someone told me that the Israelis are Jews!”

    The Anti-Semite hates the Jews because they are Jews, irrespective of their actions. Jews may be hated because they are rich and ostentatious or because they are poor and live in squalor. Because they played a major role in the Bolshevik revolution or because some of them became incredibly rich after the collapse of the Communist regime. Because they crucified Jesus or because they infected Western culture with the \Christian morality of compassion\. Because they have no fatherland or because they created the State of Israel.

    That is in the nature of all kinds of racism and chauvinism: One hates someone for being a Jew, Arab, woman, black, Indian, Muslim, Hindu. His or her personal attributes, actions, achievements are unimportant. If he or she belongs to the abhorred race, religion or gender, they will be hated.

    But somebody who hates Israel because it is a Jewish state, like the Hungarian in the joke, is an anti-Semite.

    Ya with me so far hombre?

    Zionism is a political creed and must be treated like any other. One can be anti-Communist without being anti-Chinese, anti-Capitalist without being anti-American, anti-Globalist, anti-Anything. It is not always easy to draw the line, because real anti-Semites often pretend just to be “anti-Zionists.” They should not be helped by erasing the distinction.

    Can a person be an anti-Semite and a Zionist?

    You bet. The founder of modern Zionism, Theodor Herzl, already tried to enlist the support of notorious Russian anti-Semites, promising them to take the Jews off their hands. Before World War II, the Zionist underground organization IZL established military training camps in Poland under the auspices of the anti-Semitic generals, who also wanted to get rid of the Jews. Nowadays, the Zionist extreme Right receives and welcomes massive support from the American fundamentalist evangelists, whom the majority of American Jews, according to a poll published this week, consider profoundly anti-Semitic. Their theology prophesies that on the eve of the second coming of Christ, all Jews must convert to Christianity or be exterminated.

    Watch out we’re getting closer to truth about you!

    Russian actions in Chechnya are no better than Israel’s in Nablus. The trouble is that the Jews are pictured and picture themselves (and indeed were, well not according to you hypcrite) a “nation of victims.” Therefore, the world is shocked that yesterday’s victims are today’s victimizers.

    (Sort of reminds ya of all that 1848 stuff between Austria and Hungary eh? The oppressed, the Hungarians became the oppressors after getting what they wanted by trying to force the magyar language upon the nationalities/ minorities… an then got CRUSHED by the Russkies and Hungarians were victims again back to where they started with Austria).

    Why do most Europeans state in a recent poll that Israel endangers world peace more than any other country?

    Simple: Europeans see on television every day what Israeli soldiers are doing in the occupied Palestinian territories. This confrontation is covered more than any other conflict on earth because Israel is more “interesting” considering the long history of the Jews in Europe and because Israel is closer to the Western media than Muslim or African countries. The Palestinian resistance, which Israelis call “terrorism” seems to many Europeans very much like the French resistance to the German occupation.

    Let’s not forget the European blessed EURABIA policy either bud.(Ssshhh… no one is supposed to know about that). When North African Muslims clash with North African Jews, they are transferring the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to European soil. What happened in Toulouse today is a direct result of that policy and even more embedded by the continuation of the feud between Arabs and Jews that started in Algeria when the Jews supported the French regime and Muslims considered them collaborators of the hated colonialists.

    Israelis are like all other peoples. Israel has fanatical Arab-haters, and the historic confrontation that dominates their lives increases arab power and influence. It’s Israel’s duty to fight them, and leave it to the Europeans and Arabs to deal with their own racists….

    LIKE YOU.

  • Aloof

    @Leto from Arrakis says: March 19, 2012 at 6:56 pm

    Then why doesn’t OV try something like this:

    The European Union has twin banking and sovereign debt crises. There is a chronic underinvestment problem in the eurozone deficit countries which is the ultimate cause of the internal trade imbalances and thus the private and then public debt buildup.

    What the EU should be looking at is funding productive investment in the deficit countries through the European Investment Bank, a healthier way of recycling internal trade surpluses than fueling asset price bubbles.

    This would produce a true “structural fund” spent on proactively improving the productive structure of the chronically underinvested areas in the eurozone and EU members outside the eurozone like Hungary. This is a way out of the crisis which would deliver the “growth and jobs” that the European Union has been promising with for over a decade rather than the punitive austerity currently being offered, which could last for decades.

    Instead of OV butting heads with EU why doesn’t he and his finance minister float up a solution like this instead of “revolutionary” rhetoric? OV would then take all credit then fire Matolcsy for being incompetent, which frankly he is.

    That would bring upon OV praise, admiration and respect for being an innovative leader. Right now he’s largely perceived globally as a loudmouth arrogant bedsore.

    People who take the tact OV has taken have no solutions…

    • Leto from Arrakis

      Whole industries are foreign-owned in Hungary. In some cases, like sugar refineries, it was actually the market which was bought and then the factories were shut down. This, well, semi-colonial status of Hungary was reinforced during the MSZP-SZDSZ governments between 2002 and 2010. The gist of these attacks on the Orbán government and Hungary is really that foreign big businesses, with the help of high ranked EU politicians, try to maintain this status quo and the Orbán government is trying establish a better position than this. Those crisis taxes on (overwhelmingly foreign) banks, telecommunication companies or retail chains just offset the outstandingly big profits a bit these MNCs have been reaping in Hungary.

      The crisis taxes were the way for Hungary to avoid that “punitive austerity” you mentioned and the EU/IMF pressure is in essence about returning to those good ol’ cash-cow days.
      As for “funding productive investment”, well, I’d say that’s naivety big time about the current state of affairs in EU. Have you ever worked with big French businesses? :D

      • Szabad Ember

        @Leto

        Whole industries are owned by foreigners in most small countries, since only multinationals can compete globally in those markets. You are clueless about economics and business, since you would rather go back to the way things were under communism. Inefficient industries and companies that can’t survive without government assistance will eventually disappear, but Hungary has a trade surplus, which means that the things they do better than other countries will make up for their inability to compete in most industries. It’s called specialization, and is the basis for modern economies. We could go back to the pre-industrial times, when ever community made everything they needed on their own, but that was hugely inefficient, and resulted in the vast majority of people being poor and dying young.

        The “outstandingly big profits” you’re talking about work both ways. If you want MNCs out of Hungary, then you will have no problem with OTP, MOL, and Hungarian pharmaceutical companies getting kicked out of our neighboring countries, right? What about the huge profits they make, then bring back to Hungary? You’re a flaming hypocrite, just like the people who say that Slovakia doesn’t have a right to exist independently of Hungary, but Hungary has a right to exist independently of Austria.

        Nobody’s buying your lies here, Leto, so just stop trying.

  • Proud Zsido

    I’m curious about opinions here about Jews and the Hungarian revolution of 1848. Why is there less mention that Hungarians cooperated with various groups, including Jews? Am I missing something here, but is there an intentional effort to write out the contributions of Hungarian Jews to the 1848 revolution?

    Does anyone have a deeper knowledge about this- for instance, did Jews in current Hungary uniformly oppose the Hapsburgs, or were there any divisions?

    • justasking aka Proud Catholic

      @Proud,

      “Am I missing something here, but is there an intentional effort to write out the contributions of Hungarian J*ws to the 1848 revolution?”

      That would depend…should the revolution be further broken down into religious categories…would that make you happy? Less paranoid?

      The % of those involved who were…Calvinist Hungarians? Protestant Hungarians? Atheist Hungarians? Catholic Hungarians?

      Are they not, at the end of the day, simply Hungarians?
      ————

      “Does anyone have a deeper knowledge about this- for instance, did J*ws in current Hungary uniformly oppose the Hapsburgs, or were there any divisions?”

      Well, if they didn’t, I’d question their loyalty to Hungary…assuming you’re talking about J*wish Hungarians that is.

  • Aloof

    @Leto from Arrakis says: March 19, 2012 at 9:27 pm

    OMG. Stick to propaganda dude. I can spend all day blowing holes all over that pathetic attempt of an explanation. I just don’t have time and you’re not worth the effort.

  • Aloof

    @Leto from Arrakis says: March 20, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    \Oh, a little bit of check on reality: Palestinian kids as human shields:\

    That’s not te only one, and everyone and anyone responsible should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I find it even more appalling what Syrian troops have done to their OWN children of Syria, especially in Homs. World’s a dangerous place man. Disgusting atrocities everywhere. Careful where you go. Africa is the worst of all. Mexico is no place for a white pasty gringo like you to be walking around either.

    # Name Date of incident Age at incident Nature of incident Action

    1 M.B. 15 Apr 04 13 Tied to the bonnet of a military jeep for four hours during clashes. –

    October 2005
    Israeli High Court rules that the use of civilians as human shields is illegal

    2 A.E. 26 Feb 07 15 Forced at gunpoint to walk in front of soldiers during clashes. Complaint filed on 28 April 2009 – no action.
    3 J.D. 28 Feb 07 11 Forced at gunpoint to walk in front of soldiers and enter an abandoned house in search of combatants. Complaint filed on 28 April 2009 – no action.
    4 I.M. 11 Apr 07 14 Forced to sit for 15 minutes on the bonnet of a jeep during clashes. Complaint filed on 28 April 2009 – no action.
    5 O.G. 11 Apr 07 15 Forced to sit for 10 minutes on the bonnet of a jeep during clashes. Complaint filed on 28 April 2009 – no action.
    6 R.N. 11 Jul 07 14 Wounded whilst being forced to evacuate a house. –
    7 A.S. 04 Jan 09 14 Detained for 10 days and forced to search houses during war in Gaza. –
    8 A.A. 05 Jan 09 15 Detained close to military operations for four days during war in Gaza. Complaint filed on 28 April 2009 – no action.
    9 A.A. 05 Jan 09 16 Detained close to military operations for four days during war in Gaza. Complaint filed on 28 April 2009 – no action.
    10 N.A. 05 Jan 09 17 Detained close to military operations for four days during war in Gaza. Complaint filed on 28 April 2009 – no action.
    11 K.A. 05 Jan 09 15 Detained close to military operations for four days during war in Gaza. Complaint filed on 28 April 2009 – no action.
    12 H.A. 05 Jan 09 12 Detained close to military operations for four days during war in Gaza. Complaint filed on 28 April 2009 – no action.
    13 Majed R. 15 Jan 09 9 Forced at gunpoint to search bags thought to contain explosives during war in Gaza. Complaint filed on 28 April 2009 – two soldiers convicted on 3 October 2010.
    14 D.A. 18 Feb 10 16 Forced at gunpoint to search for a weapon. Complaint filed on 20 September 2010.
    Investigation opened on 19 October 2010.
    15 S.A. 16 Apr 10 14 Forced at gunpoint to walk in front of soldiers during clashes. Complaint submitted to the UN on 3 August 2010.

  • Aloof

    @Curious George says: March 21, 2012 at 8:50 pm

    @SE “I dont want to take you away from educating Leto, but, sorry, but the Palestinians do NOT use their children as shields.”

    Really? I beg to differ: http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/01/video-of-palestinian-jihadists-using-children-as-human-shields.html

    Got a couple of dozen more examples if you’d like to see them… No one is innocent in this despicable and evil display of “adults” acting like children. Beyond disgusting.

    • Leto of Arrakis

      Like the comments also say, the children could be actually dragged into safety. It’s not clear at all what’s happening in these pictures.
      So get those “dozen more examples”.

    • Curious George

      @Aloof – like the video says “armed Palestinian terrorists using children as shields”, and further states that the children are being dragged into the line of fire. You seem to focus on the word “Palestinians” rather than “terrorists”. I’m pretty sure if the parents were around, 99% of them would be dragging their children their children away.

      • Szabad Ember

        @Curious George

        I agree, the vast majority of Palestinians love their own children enough not to use them as human shields, but where is the line between terrorist and government in Gaza? Hamas is currently observing a cease fire, but is probably allowing other groups to fire missiles into Israel, knowing full well that they are endangering innocent children (like those murdered in Toulouse, except not up close and personal). Meanwhile, those missile teams, as I said, could take steps to avoid casualties to Palestinian children and other civilians, but they don’t seem to be doing so.

        Meanwhile, I’d say that the vast majority of Israelis abhor the use of anyone as human shields, which is why the Israeli Supreme Court outlawed the practice. Just because the military leadership of Israel is as morally bankrupt as the military leadership of Gaza doesn’t mean that the Israelis are somehow worse in this regard than the Palestinians. There is plenty of disgusting behavior to discredit both sides, but some on this page are adamant that Israel is the sole monster, and, by extension, all people of the same religion. By not acknowledging this, you are providing them with support, in my opinion. Please don’t be like Leto.

      • Curious George

        @Szabad Ember – Here, I would draw the line between govt & terrorist as that between Hamas & Al Qasam (similar to Sinn Fein & IRA). Yes, I understand that Hamas has been branded terrorist by several western govts, but I think this is misleading. The vast majority of Hamas was always a social/religious support organization, and I dont think Hamas (as a govt) has a lot of influence over Al Qasam. You really expect Hamas to stop Al Qasam? How? With what resources? Also, I wouldn’t expect the missile teams to bother about anyone but themselves (ok, maybe their immediate families, but they are terrorists, and have double standards).
        Re:disgusting behavior on both sides – yes, however I believe the average Isra*li citizen has more influence on their govt’s actions than the average Palestinian has on theirs. The average Palestinian is struggling to put food on the table & often to have a running faucet & electricity.

        I would like to make it clear that I do not agree with the anti-semites like HH63, Ricsi & fdsd about J*ews. As I said, my business partner is Isra*li, and my closest friend in Budapest is a Hungarian J*ew. I have many other links with J*ews, and have even had dinner at the same table with Peres & also with Rabin before he was killed (my boss was the main guest, not me). You’re right that many here use their criticism of Israel as a mask for anti-semitism, and that comes across. I’m not doing that (& neither, do I think, is Leto – I’ve seen him tell someone off on that). My concern is for the Palestinians & the hardships they face in light of the relatively free hand (& political cover) the IDF has in executing strikes. Being an organized military, I would hold the IDF to much higher standards. I am thoroughly disgusted seeing white phosphorus shelling of civilian areas as the IDF did in Operation Castlead, and with the resulting justifications thereafter. I have hence decided to boycott Isra*l until a realistic peace process resumes. My partner understands the reasons for my decision, and we remain on very good terms.
        If I see any similarity in all this, it is that the Palestinians are being let down by their politicians, much like the Hungarians are with theirs.

        • Szabad Ember

          @Curious George

          I agree with much of what you have said, although I find it telling that Leto jumps in on the side of fdsd, a universally-recognized bigot, so quickly and easily. I’m betting that any previous even-handedness on Leto’s part was merely a ruse.

          I disagree with your depiction of Hamas as impotent to stop small, unaffiliated groups from firing missiles. Hamas was able to kick Fatah out of the Gaza strip, and kept the ceasefire very effectively until recently. I’m quite sure that nothing gets into Gaza without Hamas’s assent, since Hamas is effectively a dictatorship. Imagine being able to smuggle and fire a missile without Hamas knowing who you are! That would be like smuggling a whole dolphin into the Vatican and tossing it against the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, then getting out again without being caught. It might happen once, but certainly not twice or 50 times.

          You’re right about the IDF being held to higher standards, but my point was that there is plenty of blame to go around, and fdsd was being disingenuous. I too am boycotting Israel, since only they have the power to stop the occupation and the theft of Palestinians’ land.

          • Leto Muad’dib

            @rotten postcommie liar:

            I didn’t jump in on anybody’s side. I simply countered your apologetics for Israel. What a pity (well, not!) the only thing you could come up with was calling me a racist.

          • SE aka Szabad Ember

            @Leto

            “I didn’t jump in on anybody’s side. I simply countered your apologetics for Israel.”

            Yes, your reading comprehension problems are getting worse. I never apologized for Israel, I merely pointed out to fdsd that both sides were committing crimes. You, as a bigot, read it the way you wanted to read it. Try reading it again.

            “What a pity (well, not!) the only thing you could come up with was calling me a racist.”

            If that’s the only thing you saw in my post, then you should get your eyes checked. You could blame it on your reading comprehension problems, I guess, but I’m betting you’re just lying, as usual.

  • Aloof

    @ Jerkoff from Arrakis March 22, 2012 at 1:01 am

    Get them yourself. They’re there but you’ll deny it because you’re a perpetual racist propaganda putz.

    @Curious George says: March 22, 2012 at 6:37 am

    I’m not focusing on anything. You said “the Palestinians do NOT use their children as shields.” I’m sorry nut they do and have and it goes back a long way. Denying it isn’t the truth. That’s it.

    • Leto the one

      @Aloof the Yank patron of Hungarian postcommies:

      Curious George wrote: “the Palestinians do NOT use their children as shields.”

      You wrote in response: “Really? I beg to differ”

      Then you brought some video here which doesn’t prove your claim at all. What we can see is that there’s firing and children are being dragged away.

      In addition you also wrote “Got a couple of dozen more examples if you’d like to see them…”

      Since the video you cited is not conclusive at all, I’d like to see them. Instead of bringing up something evident to prove your original claim you say “get them” and you call me a racist.

      Well, no need to say more.

      • Let

        Sorry for the confusion, I chose the handle “Leto the one” by mistake. I’m actually “Leto the Fifth” (if you don’t count Leto of Arrakis, Leto of Corrinen and Leto of Harkonnen which are just clones of each other). If you want to count these to I will gladly adapt the nick “Leto the Eight”; just let me know.

        • Let

          I kinda like Let Tuce as well. Let me know your thoughts, you postcommie bastards, I’m looking forward to see how I can impress you to the max.

  • Aloof

    @CG, Aloof March 22, 2012 at 7:56 am
    “but they do”, typo, sorry.

  • Aloof

    @Szabad Ember March 22, 2012 at 11:03 am and Curious George March 22, 2012 at 3:16 pm

    Both really excellent posts. All I really have to add that I feel is very valid is the following:

    The most disruptive force in this conflict is Iran, yet international attention is focused on Israel. The pressure on Iran to contain its nuclear program is totally ineffectual, but it is at least visible. There is no international pressure at all on Iran to withdraw its tentacles from the Palestinian territories, and to stop using Hamas and Hezbollah to torpedo any movement towards peace barely as soon as it begins (Israel withdraws from Gaza and gets punished for it?). Meanwhile all the pressure in the world on Israel is not going to halt the forces trying to destroy it and push the world towards a global catastrophe whose reach will far exceed the Middle East.

    From the Hamas Charter:
    Israel will rise and will remain erect until Islam eliminates it. Our struggle against the Jews is extremely wide-ranging and grave. The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him! Israel, by virtue of its being Jewish and of having a Jewish population, defies Islam and the Muslims.

    (I don’t know how you would feel if that was what Austria for example was holding over your head)

    What have Arabs or the Arab League really done for Palestinians? After almost 63 years in Lebanon as refugees they finally get the right to work there? Or what about Jordan stripping Palestinians of Jordanian citizenship because they’re worried about a “demographic” imbalance?

    On top of it all you have mystifying statements like this by the EU’s Javier Solana:
    “I cannot imagine that the religious imperative, the real religious imperative, can make anybody destroy another country. Therefore that is an abuse of religion. I don’t think the essence of Hamas is the destruction of Israel. The essence of Hamas is the liberation of the Palestinians, the liberation of their people, not the destruction of Israel.”

    This is the mistake Westerners, profoundly ignorant of history, make over and over again. To assume that all cultures everywhere hold the same values they do. This is a dangerous form of ethnocentrism.

  • olga

    I just read all the comments on this thread and I am absolutely amazed that seemingly intelligent people are actually entering into a discussion with fdsd. Being an anti-sem. is the least of his problems, he is a complete raving lunatic.

    I may sorely lack an understanding of economic issues but have taken enough courses to recognize a derange person’s claim and know that trying to convince him that the earth isnot really flat is counter productive and a waste of time.

    Back to 1948 – if I remember my history course correctly
    (that’s the era I studied in University) 1948 was about Hungary trying to claim independence from the Habsburgs. We all know the end results but I also remember reading that as a result of the upraising, Sophie (I think that was Franz Joseph’s Mother’s first name) hated and distrusted the Magyars and poisoned her son’s mind against them who never trusted them either.

    His wife Elizabeth on the other hand loved the Magyars, learned the language and Hungarians returned her feelings which caused even more friction
    between herself and her mother-in-law and husband.

    The course also covered the the travesty of Trianon but let’s not go there.

    BTW – on the subject of the Z*onist banks that are taking over the world. Is there a Toronto Branch? I need a new car and I was thinking that since their number one target is my country of birth, they may give me a preferential rate.

    • justasking

      @Olga,

      “Back to 1948 – if I remember my history course correctly
      (that’s the era I studied in University)”

      You obviously failed the course… :D

      • Leto Muad’dib

        Right. :) She wrote the wrong number twice. :p

        • justasking

          @Leto,

          “She wrote the wrong number twice”

          That’s because she has a bad stutter…on top of having ape like hair (everywhere, the poor dear), long greasy hair, buck teeth and an ass end that a quarter horse would envy. It’s obvious she’s part Slovak… :D

          I befriended her, simply, because it was the Christian thing to do. I’ll be going straight to heaven for this one.

    • SE aka Szabad Ember

      @Olga

      “I am absolutely amazed that seemingly intelligent people are actually entering into a discussion with fdsd”

      You have a good point, but you do the same thing with Double63, who is not much more sane than fdsd. Either way, we seem to have shut him up.

  • olga

    @ JA

    Well you know these Canadian textbooks they thought the
    events I mentioned took place in 1948 as opposed to 1848 so
    it was not a typo, simply a poor education system.

    BTW, I arrive in BP 4 hours before you and if you find a basket of rotting fruit and faded flowers in your room, don’
    t think I had anything to do with it because I would never do anything so petty.

    • justasking

      @Olga,

      “Well you know these Canadian textbooks…”

      Not the ones in Western Canada…must be those ‘Liberal’ ones in Ontario.
      ——–

      “BTW, I arrive in BP 4 hours before you and if you find a basket of rotting fruit and faded flowers in your room, don’t think I had anything to do with it…”

      Check your reservations again there Chickie poo…I have you book in some shit hole in Bucharest…enjoy!
      ———–

      “I happen to think Double is smart, well educated, can be quite witty but he is still a disgusting racist”

      To bad the same thing couldn’t be said about that Ugly American :D

  • olga

    @ Szabad Ember

    I think you are wrong about Double – I would like to think that the David Dukes of this world are insane but I don’t believe that for a second – I happen to think Double is smart, well educated, can be quite witty but he is still a disgusting racist. I don’t think Vona or KM are crazy either, simply appalling.

    FDSD on the other hand is a raving lunatic who is into conspiracy theories – he would do well amongst the US crackpots who think Obama is a Muslim with a fake birth certificate despite all the evidence to the contrary. Personally I find it much easier to read garbage from someone who I can excuse.

    BTW, I have spent the day looking for that Z*ionist bank in Toronto and I practiced saying Oj Veh if they refused my loan application, but these sneaky people did not list themselves under Z so I guess I will never get a preferred rate. Bummer

    Just so I actually write something on topic, (gotta sometimes) I heard on the radio that people in Greece were complaining about becoming a German Colony , so I looked on-line and found this paragraph:

    \The postponement of elections following the earlier cancellation of a referendum on the euro by Merkel and Sarkozy is part of set of measures that have turned Greece into little more than a colony. The proposal that a commissioner should be appointed to run the Greek economy was more than a little insensitive for a country that has suffered a brutal Nazi occupation. The proposal was scrapped; instead, there is to be a task force of inspectors based in the main ministries and a special ring-fenced account where the loan money will be deposited beyond Greek control, to be used exclusively for repaying the loans.\

    I obviously took one paragraph and one has to read the whole article to understand the issues but I found it interesting that the \colony\ was not just an Orban invention, but another country indebted to the IMF feels the same way .

    I tell ya, Canada is so boring compared to all the political drama going on in Europe and the USA that it’s embarrassing.

    • Szabad Ember

      @Olga

      May you live in interesting times; that’s an old curse that your country seems to have avoided for awhile now.

      I’m sorry to see that Double63 contradicted you in his very next post, below, since I actually do not like to be right when I say less-than-flattering things about you. However, I admire your ability to see good things in bad people, and will endeavor in the future to emulate you.

      I agree that Vona and Krisztina Morvai are not insane, just completely devoid of morals, ethics, and patriotism. Double63, however, often degenerates into nonsensical blabbering about his supposed enemies, so I honestly think that he has some kind of syndrome.

      The fact that Greece has spent its way into its problem, and is asking Germany to bail it out, yet feels like it’s being treated like a colony (well, some Greeks), is proof that people are able to believe almost anything that makes them feel better. Germany should go easier on Greece, no question, but no country in Europe is really being treated like a colony, not even Belarus.

  • DoubleH63

    @olga

    “I don’t think Vona or KM are crazy either, simply appalling.”

    You just need to listen to more of those appalling Jobbik speeches in the Hungarian and EU Parliament to see that they are not the monsters you think they are. Don’t rely on the propaganda of ‘Red Éva’.
    Their 3 representatives in the EU Parliament are pretty much the only ones who are trying to defend Hungary against the ‘democratic’ Maoist/Communist Cohn-Bendit, Barroso type of onslaught (helped by the hazaáruló Andor.

    In the Hungarian Parliament they are not a sidekick to Fidesz either, like many would have you believe on this site.
    They only vote for something put forward by Fidesz if it serves the Nation. (Their entire representative swore to that front of the Holy Crown.)
    They turn in tons of modifications to Fidesz proposals or suggest new proposals, which get swept off by the 2/3 majority, to be seen sometimes come back months later as a Fidesz proposal (very good way to deceive the Hungarian Nation to come back to Fidesz and vote for them again – the latest one is about the opening of commie agent files, first proposed by Jobbik, now by LMP; swept off by Fidesz. Guess what? You will see it soon enough as a Fidesz proposal.

    As a lunatic: I am not 100% sure about the birth certificate – but why was he traveling on an Indonesian passport if he was born in the US, or why did his Grandma insist that he was born in Kenya?
    But I leave that up to historians to figure out down the road.
    Poor JFK said the same thing about H*tler: in 50 years history will put him in the right place, right now we are still too emotional about him. Boy, was he wrong!
    And btw WWII was not about the J*ws or their plight, no matter how much the PC schoolbooks try to tell you (unfortunately even in Hungary right now – thanks Fidesz).
    [Must be the effect of the Abe Foxman Kool-Aid drinking peoples - with Gene Simmons [great Hungarian] (check his birth certificate), blood in their veins.

    • Leto Muad’dib

      “WWII was not about the J*ws or their plight, no matter how much the PC schoolbooks try to tell you ”

      Who said that? Which schoolbook? It’s quotidian truth that WWII was the continuation of WWI where this issue didn’t even surface.

  • Curious George

    “I am not 100% sure about the birth certificate – but why was he traveling on an Indonesian passport if he was born in the US, or why did his Grandma insist that he was born in Kenya?”
    @Olga – You can include MM63 as one of them birther morons. This one takes the cake. Teletransported birth.

  • Aloof

    @Curious George March 23, 2012 at 6:56 am

    “I am not 100% sure about the birth certificate: Well no one REALLY is but his mother, Stanley Ann Durham (whacky name for a girl), was definitely born in Wichita, Kansas in 1942. His Kenyan father was never a US citizen. His mom being American is good enough for me. John McCain was born in Panama like many other “service brats” and is American as you can get. The “birthers” in my opinion are nothing more than racists.

    why was he traveling on an Indonesian passport?: Obama’s mom married Lolo Sotero, a Javanese/Indonesion surveyor in 1965 in Honolulu, Hawaii. After mom’s graduation from the University of Hawaii with a B.A. in anthropology in 1967, Mom moved with 6 year-old Obama to Jakarta, Indonesia to rejoin her husband. It’s why Obama is referred to as “Barry Sotero” when people want to ask “Who is this guy?” by the opposition.

    why did his Grandma insist that he was born in Kenya: The story goes that Obama’s KENYAN grandma said that. Supposedly in the late stages of Obama’s mom pregnancy in 1961 she visited Kenya to meet Obama’s dad’s family. (They didn’t like that she was white. (Glad see racism was alive in Africa in 1961 too eh?) She was allegedly stopped by Kenyan Airport authorities from boarding the plane because she was about to have baby. I could buy that. Last thing air travelers need is the ultimately screaming child on board. So she supposedly had the baby and then went back to Hawaii and REGISTERED his birth in August 1961. In Hawaii there are public reports of him being born in 2 separate hospitals, Kapiolani Hospital and Queens Hospital in Honolulu.
    The laws on the books at the time of his birth hold that U.S. citizenship may only pass to a child born overseas to a U.S. citizen parent and non-citizen parent if the former was at least 19 years of age. Obama’s mom was only 18 at the time.

    There is no doubt that it’s a fuzzy picture but his mom being an American is good enough for me.

  • Curious George

    @Aloof – Thanks. You’re right about the birthers being racists. Any intelligent 10 year old can blow holes in their theories.
    1. Was there a record of Ann Durham having a passport or going to Kenya at the time?
    2. The person who allegedly spoke to his grandmother is unreliable from the point of view of being a witness.
    3. In the interview with the grandmother,
    a. the grandmother might have referred to something else,
    b. the idiot might have had his question wrongly translated
    c. the idiot simply heard what he wanted to hear.
    None of this could be repeated when a reliable person was around to verify answers.
    4. There is no record of Obama having an Indonesian passport (it would also be pointless & worthless for an American to have one, since Indonesians need visas for many countries, including Pakistan) Did Pakistan issue a visa?
    5. There was no restriction for Americans to travel to Pakistan at the time.
    6. What passport did newly born Obama fly to Hawaii on, before he was registered? Kenyan? When was the American visa issued?

    For Mu-Maygyar63 to bring this rubbish up here on a Hungarian website really betrays his racism, “educashion (lack of)”, and his belief that the rest of us would buy into his claims (without providing any evidence or links). He imagines we reason on the same level as the Hungarian peasant classes whom he despises and blames for Hungary’s failings. He was trying to impress us with he & his family’s privileged upbringing by talking about his grandfather’s book collection. He can’t flaunt his “breeding” in the US (he’d be laughed out of the room), so he just comes here to goad us into reacting (not like what I’m doing here ;) ) On an aside, I actually have it on good evidence that his illiterate grandfather stole that those books from his French employer’s residence where he was a stablehand, but hadn’t gotten round to selling them yet – You just have to wait until I create the website to see that evidence – I’ll throw in a grandmother’s affidavit too, if you need it :) )

    I’m just surprised at the number of dumb people who actually believe the birther nonsense (A Hungarian who believes that, however, has to be the dumbest of all). This picture from a website partly explains the movement. -http://patrick.net/forum/?p=1210368

    • Leto Muad’dib

      As a Hungarian, I find this obscure discussion about Obama’s birth stupid and irrelevant on this site. And I also doubt anybody else is interested.

      Okay, DoubleH69 brought it up and then what? Why on Earth are you insisting shovelling this s..t here for so long? Perhaps do you both feel insecure about the truth and you need constant self-reinforcements?

      • Szabad Ember

        @Leto

        This post is typical of you. You can’t write anything without including a baseless insult (probably a result of some disorder of yours), even when you’re trying to get someone to do something for you. If that wasn’t really the intent of your post, then it must have been to just insult people. Either way, you are sick, seek help.

  • Aloof

    As an American, who gives a flying fu*k what YOU think is an appropriate discussion. No one was talking to you. This site is run by an American. So fu*k off.

    • Leto Muad’dib

      American moron, this site is run by an American about *Hungarian* politics. This garbage is your idiotic internal business which has nothing to do with Hungary. So fu*k off.

  • Aloof

    @Curious George March 24, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    I agree. What does it matter anyway? Obama is president and judging by the pathetic opposition he probably will be again. I would never vote for him, he embodies and supports just about everything I think is dragging my once great country down.

    • Curious George

      @Aloof – I do keep up with US politics as the outcome affects my country a great deal. While a Republican foreign & economic policy would probably benefit my country, I think most of the people (except our govt) would prefer Obama. Nothing to do with race, but about how the republican candidates come across. We’d rather not have a US president who’s too eager to militarily escalate every foreign policy issue.
      Anyway, it is still is a great country, and I’ve promised my wife I’d take her there one day (we want to drive across the country). I haven’t been there in almost a quarter of a century.

  • Aloof

    I’ll talk about anything want anytime I want and anywhere I want, getting the picture? You should expand your narrow little “hungarian” attention to real deal.hu too, but that would interfere with your kool aid drinking political pablum puking drivel. Reality isn’t in the kool aid drinkers dictionary. Jesus, why is any and every kool aid drinker that posts here seem to come from a cookie cutter. Keep drinking up, we’ll just keep bitch slapping you with the reality.

    • Leto Muad’dib

      Yeah, I’m getting a picture. You’re an arrogant Yank prick whose business failed in Hungary and who tries to shift the blame on Fidesz and Orbán. That’s a well-known psychological projection mechanism. :D

  • olga

    @ Double

    I don’t listen to anything JOBBIK has to say because they are a disgusting racist party that ruins Hungary’s reputation. I would like to think that Hungary is the center of the universe but I know it’s not and unless some major scandal or misfortune happens over there, the mainstream press (the term you hate) does not cover any Hungarian news

    The last few years, Gyurcsany’s speech, JOBBIK and the red sludge tragedy received the most press and when it comes to pictures, nothing like the MG marching around
    for a good photo op. that makes me cringe and I hope no one I know read the paper that day.

    As far as Red Eva is concerned, I used to read her blog regularly and always appreciated reading the comments following her articles because they were obviously regulated and people did not go nuts like on this website. I very seldom read her blog now because it’s so boring and predictable and one sided

    I also find the Redand Communist labels ridiculous because as far as I am concerned, Gyurcsany was a bastard who robbed the country blind but he was not a Communist unless during his presidency people disappeared during the night, tortured and never heard from again.

    I have to keep in mind that my own Dad referred to Pierre Trudeau as a Communist which made me crazy (I was not a Trudeau fan) so maybe the word Communist has taken on a new meaning like the word gay but I didn’t get the memo.

    About WWII – The PC textbooks cover the reasons why the war started but they concentrate on the end results which were the slaughter of 6 million J*ews, 5 million non J.ews
    not to mention the Allied forces. I don’t know what happens in your neck of the woods but the only time I hear about WWII in Canada is on NOvember 11th Remembrance Day so I must assume it’s a PC thing to put WWII behind us

    As far as being emotional about Hitler is concerned – I think as long as people are alive who had known relatives
    of Hitler, Stalin, Rakosi etc ( parents, grandparents, sisters, brothers ) the emotion will remain. Probably 100 years from now, the pain from the WWII and even 9/11 victims’ families will be less than it is now. However I don’t think Htler, Stalin , Rakosi or Bin Laden will go down in main stream documented history as nice guys who were simply misunderstood

    BTW, I think something was amiss with your last posting – you managed to write a few paragraphs that were not offensive to my PC eyes and I can’t recall your ever doing that. I hope everything is ok and you are feeling well

  • Aloof

    Yawn… that’s it. That’s the best you can do? Sound angry little fellow. That says a lot about you. My business in Hungary made us millions while we were here, 17 years. Still have that one too, just moved it to 2 friendlier coutries in Europe to do business without all the government BS. We have several other businesses too and my family is REAL hooked up in the USA. Life is good. Very good. Don’t try it. Small minds like you will fail, especially in Hungary. We’re not even at April 2012 and the projection is that more than 400 hungarian owned businesses (mostly SBs) will fail. Give a OV a call and let him know, OK?

    • Leto Muad’dib

      I’m far from being angry. :) Instead you amuse me, arrogant Yank prick. Life is good indeed. The gravy train days of 2002-2010 is over for you and you get lost from this country soon.
      Unless, of course, you’re lying through your teeth. That wouldn’t much of a surprise, you friend of rotten Hungarian postcommie bastards.

  • Aloof

    Still spinning the old tried and true immature name calling narrow minded puke. You’ve been busted since the first day you’ve posted a comment. We all know who you are. Is your life really this pathetic?

  • Aloof

    Curious George says: March 24, 2012 at 3:42 pm

    Well we sort of have the same problem Hungary has right now. No opposition worth the damn to speak of. Does not bode well for either of our countries.

    The USA is an incredibly beautiful country and the only way to truly appreciate it is by driving across it. Just be real careful though and don’t get caught in the cross fire. Not kidding…

    Just like Hungary, the regular folk are very gracious, hospitable and would give you the shirt off their back.

    Everyone is tired of the race card in America just like evryone is tired of the commie card in Hungary. It’s all wrapped around political crap anyway. All people want anywhere is job they can count on, food and drink on the table and family and friends to enjoy it with it. I mean, is that really too much to ask? The greedy and corrupt want to even take that away.

    One day people are just going to have enough of it all and there won’t be too many places to hide for those types.

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