June 7th, 2012

Facebook is a social utility that connects people with friends and others who want to post infographics demonstrating how bad of a deal Trianon was for Hungary

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If you care and haven’t seen them, here’s one well-shared thread with a infographic showing what a Trianon-like dismemberment would have done to several other countries, and here’s another one showing how much more the British lost when its Empire went sour. Needless to say, the people who “like” the one are probably not friends with those who “like” the other.

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  • Bowen

    A more interesting comparison would be the dismemberment of Austria, which also lost the majority of its ‘territory’ (or just let the people who lived there look after their own territories, depending on your point of view).

    And Austria has done very well for itself since. Maybe the Hungarians should look immediately west and take some lessons.

    • Daniel

      Umm, what an ignorant man you are. The territories Austria lost were all territories it annexed you goof.
      Hungary never annexed Slovakia, and Romania, as they never actually existed in the first place, comprende?
      All the territtories Hungary lost, bar Croatia, were all CORE territories of Hungary, and that’s the problem.

      • Cnut

        So, what’s your point Daniel? Hungarians should just feel sorry for themselves? That’s the answer?

        You might try to find differences as to why Austrians should feel less sorry for themselves, but what is interesting is the response.

        The Austrians accepted the loss, and then moved on with life. Hungarians still don’t accept the loss, in the face of reality.

        What should Hungarians do?

        • Alfredo Garcia

          @Daniel, “All the territtories Hungary lost, bar Croatia, were all CORE territories of Hungary, and that’s the problem.”
          That’s like arguing that Ireland was a core territory of the UK just because it was part of the UK for many hundreds of years. Don’t you think that once upon a time somebody conquered someone else to get those lands (and frankly I don’t give a toss which Hungarian saint king it was).

          More importantly, don’t you know that non-Hungarians were the MAJORITY in all those lost territories? And that the Hungarian population of the entire pre-Trianon Hungary was ONLY 48%?
          Maybe somebody should have asked the native Croatians, Slovaks, Austrians etc… if they were happy to get out of Hungary. I bet they are happy about it now.

          • Leto

            Try to read up before you post on something, you hungarophobe idiot.
            Start, say, here: -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Hungary

          • Cogito

            @ Leto

            Yoy are asking this idiot to read? As you know, idiots don’t read, they only write. And the rest of us are supposed to read their garbage … :)

          • Cogito

            Hey Freddy, You are an idiot.

          • Leto

            Oh, well, it was a rhetoric plea, of course. I know how these imbecile freaks work.

          • Bowen

            Leto & Cogito – are you two sitting at the same computer? Or are you just one person pretending to beef up the numbers here?

          • Cogito

            @ Bowen

            jeees … another idiot dropped in :)

          • Paul

            @Stupido

            “jeees … another idiot dropped in ”

            Yep I see you are here stupido…you are on line again. Don’t shout so hard.

          • Alfredo Garcia

            Lesco, I already told you I don’t give a tinker’s curse about the history of Hungary. Why don’t you read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Trianon and give up moaning about your stupid lost territories which face up to it buddy boy you ain’t never gonna get back.

          • ,justasking,

            @Alfredo,

            ‘More importantly, don’t you know that non-Hungarians were the MAJORITY in all those lost territories? And that the Hungarian population of the entire pre-Trianon Hungary was ONLY 48%?”

            You know, I never did understand that argument.

            That’s just like saying, since Mexicans are the majority in Texas, that State should be given to Mexico. Or, British Columbia (province in Canada) should be split in half…half to the Chinese and the other half to India, cause they outnumber ‘Canadians’ by far.

            Your point would be accurate, if there were no defined and concrete boarders to the kingdom of Hungary in the first place…but, there was.

            So, my question to you is…should we start haphazardly reestablishing boarders the world over, to accommodate minorities, who happen to be in the majority in certain areas of a country?

          • Just telling

            Mexicans and Chinese do not comprise the majority population of Texas or British Colombia.

          • ,justasking,

            @Just telling,

            “Mexicans and Chinese do not comprise the majority population of Texas or British Colombia’

            They present a significant % of the population in these areas; but, that’s not really the point now is it? The point is, these are countries with established boarders.

          • Cnut

            What is everyone’s point here? That it was victor’s justice? Of course it was.

            The question is where to from here, rather than squabbling amongst yourselves.

            What should Hungary do now about Trianon?

          • ,justasking,

            @Cnut,

            ‘That it was victor’s justice? Of course it was’

            Really? Victor’s justice huh?

            Remind me again…the Czechs…were they apart of the Habsburgs Empire? The Slovaks? The Serbs? The Croatians? So, one could say that they were ‘equally guilty’ for being under the same umbrella of the Habsburgs, and defending this empire I might add… as was Hungary correct?

            So exactly, what justice did they have to ‘endure’ for supporting/defending the Habsburgs empire during WWI?

          • Cnut

            @justaskin, OK, I concede to your argument: it wasn’t victor’s justice.

            I repeat the point of what I was saying:

            The question is where to from here, rather than squabbling amongst yourselves.

            What should Hungary do now about Trianon?

          • Zoli

            For your info, one in three ethnic hungarians ended up living as a minority in another country. That includes hungarian communities that were in majority along the current border of hungary, as is the case with most hungarians in Slovakia, Serbia, and a large chunk of the ethnic hungarian population in Romania. Why don’t you ask those hungarians who have been trampled on for generations now, and subjected to all sorts of acts of humiliation and destruction of their cohesion how they feel about that?

          • Cnut

            Was that directed to me Zoli? I’m very aware of the issues around Trianon.

            I am just asking (!) what would be the most practical way forward from here?

            What should Hungarians do to help the situation and to help the Hungarians living beyond our borders?

          • justasking,

            @cnut,

            Sorry for my delayed response; but, here it is.

            ‘The question is where to from here, rather than squabbling amongst yourselves’

            First off, any Hungarian will tell you, that squabbling amongst ourselves is national past-time. If you think that other Hungarian communities the World over, are any different? You gotta another think coming.

            One I find sad, but true.
            ——-

            ‘What should Hungary do now about Trianon?’

            That’s a tough question. What I think? Forget about getting the land back, and focus on pulling together globally. Similar to what the Polish, Italian and J*wish communities (just to name a few) do outside of their ‘motherland’.

            I honestly believe that we were on our way as a nation under Horthy. Unfortunately, we ended up getting derailed by WWII, further losing our momentum and spirit, by yet another occupation by a foreign body…the Soviets.

            What I see in Hungary now, since 1989, is a bunch of kids in a candy store, running around in all directions; simply because there IS no direction.

            As for how to turn Hungary around? Hell, if I knew the answer to that, I’d run for the PM’s office.

          • Cnut

            @justaskin, well, I agree with you. I know and acknowledge the Hungarian propensity for squabbling amongst themselves, but I was trying to get the conversation to move in a more practical direction. If there is a problem, solve as best you are able. Wailing about it won’t change a thing (I know the Hungarian habit of moaning uselessly about things as well).

            And, I agree with you. Hungary will never get the land back. Hungary should try to leverage its diaspora more.

            The thing which bothers me about Trianon is that there seems to be a great deal of national enthusiasm, focus, spirit, and energy devoted to the topic, but it is without a purpose. It would be better for Hungarians to devote that enthusiasm, focus, spirit and energy into something positive in the future. Essentially, to move on, get over it. Not because Trianon wasn’t bad, not because it wasn’t unjust, not becuase it wasn1t important, just because that would be the most practical, resourceful, healthy and innovative way to deal with it.

          • justasking

            @cnut,

            ‘but I was trying to get the conversation to move in a more practical direction’

            Could we start by getting you to change your handle? You have no idea, how uncomfortable it is for a woman to type that.
            ——

            ‘If there is a problem, solve as best you are able. Wailing about it won’t change a thing’

            I personally think, the problems are so massive, people are literally overwhelmed and don’t even know where to start. Whining is simply a way of deflecting. I don’t agree with it; but, can see how it could happen.
            ——–

            ‘The thing which bothers me about Trianon is that there seems to be a great deal of national enthusiasm, focus, spirit, and energy devoted to the topic, but it is without a purpose’

            See, that’s where your wrong…the problem comes from the LIES that were spread about WHY Triannon came about, is what Hungarians object too. Even you yourself, posted it having being a ‘victors justice’. It wasn’t.

            It had all to do with strategy…making sure that constant squabbling takes place in Central/eastern Europe, so as never to pose a threat again to Western Europe….full stop. Call a thing a thing I always say.

            It’s said, that Trianon is based on Woodrow Wilson’s 14 point Peace program…yet, only ONE point out of the 14 were implemented. Call a thing a thing.
            ———

            ‘It would be better for Hungarians to devote that enthusiasm, focus, spirit and energy into something positive in the future. Essentially, to move on, get over it’

            You can’t simply expect people to do that, when their reputation has been deliberately and systematically tarnished. I’m sorry, but after all these years, enough is enough. Hungarians need to be heard and validated before this can happen.

            It’s like saying to a rape victim…’you got raped because of the provocative clothes you wore, not becuase the perp was a sick pig.

            Yeah, go try telling somebody to suck it up and move on after that mouthful.
            ———-

            ‘just because that would be the most practical, resourceful, healthy and innovative way to deal with it’

            I agree with you here. It would need everybody involved, to get on board though to make this happen successfully. Admissions and concessions, would have to be made by ALL sides involved.

            Who knows, if that were to happen, maybe Central/Eastern Europe could then move forward, to make it THE powerhouse of Europe together?

          • Curious George

            “I personally think, the problems are so massive, people are literally overwhelmed and don’t even know where to start.”

            @JA – Maybe they should start with addressing present day problems, not ancient ones. Healthcare, updating the education system, & corruption are easy ones to address. Statues, dual citizenship, re-burials, picking battles with IMF/EU, MNCs, and neighbouring countries don’t do anything for the average citizen. The problem here is that Fidesz had not set a clear objective and direction, and no one knew what was going to happen.
            When a Narnian political party in my country won 2/3 of the election many years ago, the 1st thing they did was to tackle corruption, and it paid off almost immediately. People could see & experience the changes, and knew where to direct their energies in their own lives. In Hungary, the people are clueless, because they don’t know what is happening or what will happen, and all they see are the connected getting all the benefits.
            I won’t address Trianon but I think Hungary cannot negotiate for anything until it is economically strong, has a better international image, and can rally some powerful allies on its side. Right now, it seems to prefer picking fights with its potential allies.

          • Anonymous

            @George,

            ‘When a Narnian political party in my country won 2/3 of the election many years ago, the 1st thing they did was to tackle corruption, and it paid off almost immediately…’

            Don’t think for a minute, that I had forgotten that discussion that we had. The real life examples you provided, helped me better understand you, and eventually your posts here on this site. Hey…honestly? I get it, and I agree agree with you.

            ***For future reference, show up in a grass skirt again, and I’ll bring a weed whipper with me next-time. I have never felt so embarrassed in all my LIFE! :D
            ——-

            ‘Statues, dual citizenship, re-burials, picking battles with IMF/EU, MNCs, and neighbouring countries…”

            Again, I don’t disagree with you. Although I do appreciate some of the things that have been implemented, I believe that they could have waited/and or handled differently.
            ——-

            ‘I won’t address Trianon but I think Hungary cannot negotiate for anything until it is economically strong, has a better international image…’

            Again, I agree with you 100%…never enter into anything where you’re in a vulnerable position.
            ——–

            ‘Right now, it seems to prefer picking fights with its potential allies’

            If you really think about it, the political options presented to the Hungarian public today, are either individuals, who, from the least bit of international pressure; pin back their ears, squat down and piddle like a pup (the left) OR, we have the pup, with an alpha male syndrome (the right).

            Where’s a dog whisperer, when you need one?

          • justasking

            Sorry, above post from moi!

          • Curious George

            I have never felt so embarrassed in all my LIFE!

            @JA – Well, if you don’t want to feel embarrassed, you shouldn’t get caught trying to peek under my grass skirt. If you were curious as to whether we wear fehernemu, you only need to ask :)

            Holy crap! In case you’ve forgotten how we do this, you’re supposed to disagree with what I say. In your last post, you agreed with me 3 times. And to think, I haven’t yet taken you to camp, or taught you how to make apple-pies. You gotta watch out for us sneaky Arabs (& Americans) trying to undermine or deceive “naive & gullible Hungarian girls” :D

          • justasking

            @George,

            ‘you shouldn’t get caught trying to peek under my grass skirt. If you were curious as to whether we wear fehernemu…’

            George, it wasn’t that…I WAS going to try and spare you the embarrassment; but, here it is. It wasn’t what was ‘under the skirt’ that I was curious about, but what was possibly ‘in the skirt’ that had me taking note.

            Lets just say, (without going into too much detail) when you have kids, ‘certain smells’ trigger off responses in you, I caught a whiff of something when I suddenly saw your face turning read and you straining… :)
            ———-
            ‘Holy crap! ‘

            For YOU maybe…not, for me. Ewww!
            ———-

            ‘you’re supposed to disagree with what I say. In your last post, you agreed with me 3 times…’

            I only disagree with you, when you talk out of your ass…pun intended.

            But, all that aside, as I’ve said before and will say again, yes, Fidesz has put it’s politics before the Hungarian people at times…hard to deny that in my opinion.

            Unfortunately, this seems to be the new trend in allot of countries lately.

            PS: I hate baking….ain’t no Arab hybrid or girlie camp gonna change that! :D

      • Dan

        Hungary never annexed Transilvania (never owned Romania) and Slovakia? read some history and then talk, and of core territories, see here an map
        http://m.cdn.blog.hu/tu/tudtad/etnikai_t%C3%A9rk%C3%A9p_1910.jpg
        that’s 1910, and its made from an hungarian

        • Leto

          Hungary did own “Rumania” in the early Middle Ages. Like it’s well known, both Wallachia and Moldavia were vassal states to the Holy Crown of Hungary for centuries. Though Hungary didn’t annex these territories.

          • Andrei

            Until one day, when Stefan cel Mare, prince of Moldova kicked Matthias Corvinus ass.

            “The conflict ended with a bitter defeat for the Hungarians, who had an army more than three times the size of the Moldavian force. This put an end to all Hungarian claims on Moldavia. Corvinus almost died after being thrice wounded by arrows and barely made his escape to Transylvania.”

            look it up: /wiki/Battle_of_Baia

          • Leto

            Actually it was the Ottomans who ended the rule of Hungary over these Rumanian states and they became Ottoman vassal states until the Ottoman Empire collapsed. Then, in the 19th century, they changed hands a lot of times among Russians, Ottomans and Austrians.

          • Dan

            could you believe that your greatest king was romanian?
            http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matia_Corvin

          • Leto

            Well, quite simply I couldn’t care less about the ethnic roots of King Matthias.

            But, only for your sake, here goes the relevant part from Wikipedia:

            “The Hunyadi family were a noble family in the medieval Kingdom of Hungary, of Wallachian (Romanian) origin according to the majority of sources. Hunyadi was named Valachus or Balachus (“the Wallachian”) in some contemporary texts. There are also authors suggesting a possible Slavic origin, with other sources suggesting a possible Tatar-Cuman descendance. However, according to Hugh Seton-Watson, “both Hunyadi and his son considered themselves Hungarians”.

            According to other options, John Hunyadi came from a modest Romanian noble family from Hațeg. Others simply refer to the obscurity surrounding the year of birth and parentage. The Hunyadis were first recorded in a royal charter of 1409 in which Sigismund of Luxembourg, then King of Hungary, granted Vojk the Hunyad Castle (in contemporary Hungarian: Hunyadvár, later Vajdahunyad, in present-day Romanian: Hunedoara) and its estates for his distinction in the wars against the Ottomans.”

            -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hunyadi

          • Dan

            @Leto in that time hungarians were of a higher social status, thats why they openly considered themselves hungarian, now if a romanina king was of hungarian origin would you say I don’t care about his ethnic roots? No you will scream and shout long live the hungarian demigod!
            http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Familia_Huniade
            It is assumed that the paternal family was Vlach and Orthodox [citation needed], but became Roman Catholic and the Hungarian tilted because at that time the Hungarians had a higher socio-political status in Transylvania. This was quite common then, several Hungarian noble family were members of Vlach origin for that reason. Marriages between the two ethnic groups were not at all controversial only after the wars with the Ottoman Empire.
            Ï have a recommendation for you, go find youself a nice girl, live your live, let go of your irredentist hate

      • Dan

        so my earlier reply is still awaiting moderation since 3.43 pm, as soon one comes with arguments that do not agree with the hungarian poin of view , that one is censored.
        I was talking about your core provinces
        http://m.cdn.blog.hu/tu/tudtad/etnikai_t%C3%A9rk%C3%A9p_1910.jpg
        thats a map from 1910 with the ethnic part in old Hungary

      • American in Budapest

        Bullocks. Slovaks have a much right to their own nation as the Hungarians. Same for the Romanians.

        You are the most arrogant SOBs in Eastern Europe and despite your nationalistic arrogance, your country is completely dysfunctional!!!

        • Zoli

          Yes I agree that they all had the right to their own state, but did they have the right to anex teritories where ethnic hungarians were in the majority, as is the case with the border region between Hungary and Slovakia, Serbia and Hungary, and Parts of Romania? 1 in 3 ethnic hungarians ended up as a minority living under what I can only describe to you as “nationalistic arrogance” that is far above what you may have withnessed among some hungarians. Nobody had the right to condemn so many people, to such a disgusting sentence, yet you Americans, and the French did just that.

  • Whacko

    Ahh, just like this site….

  • true democracy

    Hungary will rise again,mark my words!

    • Aloof

      Really? How are they going to do that with no economy, small military, no natural resources, shrinking population and especially no friends?

  • Leto

    Comparing to the dismemberment of the thousand year old Kingdom of Hungary to Britain’s losing her colonies is extreme ignorance in history and/or a total lack of empathy to the Hungarian nation whose third in the Carpathian Basin now has to live, in their own native land, under foreign yoke.
    It’s no surprise at all that infographics results from the “leftist” Milla group.

  • true democracy

    We will prevail, God is on our side!

    • Paul

      @True democracy

      Don’t insult God please.

      • Leto off Tianjin

        God is on our side.
        God = the one Supreme Being = the Creator of the Universe = the Ruler of the World = Orban.
        We will prevail!

  • Andrei

    Viva Trianon!
    Trianon brought justice to this part of Europe.
    Romanians living in the hungarian kingdom (Transilvania) had ten time a much harder life then maghiars have now in Romania. Hungarian minorities in Transilvania have schools in their language, they are treated equaly and respected.
    For a long time romanians werent even recognized as a ethnic group in Transilvania, even thou they were in majority.
    Also, hungarian nobles, who owned most of the land in Slovakia, treated the Slovaks with contempt and forced Magyarization upon them for centuries.
    Trianon is the price you payed (a fair price) for mistreatments applied to minorities in your kingdom (who where in fact in majority).

    I belive, originaly, hungarian was only a small number of nobles and nomadic wariors who settled in this parts and enslaved the people they found living here.
    The modern day hungarians are mostly magyarized slavs and romanians.

    But that’s not important now, I hope that the extremist who run nowadays Hungary will go away and people can live in peace.

    By the way, I have some szekely friends in Cluj who generaly do not care about politics, but they told me recently that they prefer living in Romania instead of recent Hungary (because of FIDESZ and Jobika)

    • Leto

      “I have some szekely friends in Cluj who generaly do not care about politics, but they told me recently that they prefer living in Romania instead of recent Hungary (because of FIDESZ and Jobika)”

      Good, szőröstalpú hülye! That’s really the joke of the day for today.

      :D :D :D

      • American in Budapest

        Unfortunately, it is not a joke. You embody the ‘loser Hungarian culture’.

  • The truth will set you free!

    Hungary was too kind to bring these ethnic minorities into their kingdom in the first place!

    They gave these peasants a place to live and in turn when they had a chance they turned their backs on their hosts. Trianon was the thanks Hungary got for protecting western europe from the hoardes that came from the east through the centuries!

    Oh well, as they say pay back is a bitch! Was not Trianon settled by the french and english? Mark my words, their time too will come. Block by block Muslims are moving into their cities and pushing out the native french and english population. It won’t be long!

    • Géza

      A FACT! Molsims and other immigrants are already pushing out the native french and english population…

  • The truth will set you free!

    Andrei, Andrei, Andrei!

    You should be thanking your lucky stars that there are hungarians living in Romania. Don’t forget hungarians had a huge part in the liberation of your nation! When it comes down to it we have courage unlike most of you!Ceausescu and his family would still be in power now and for a hundred years after if Laszlo Tokes and other brave hungarians did not stand up to him.

    So the next time you see a hungarian don’t forget to thank him!

    • Andrei

      ha? thousands of romanians died in ’89 fighting for democracy and I should be thanking one hungarian? Who buy the way now is a fat politician in the European Parliament?

      You should be thanking romanians because of it werent for us fighting turks for centuries you would probably be a muslim country now or at least would have had a much harder life.
      For centuries you thrived and prospered and we had to fight war after war, every year, with turks and tatars.

      So, show a little respect.

    • Andrei

      Oh, and do I have to remained you that romanian army libarated Budapest form hungarian bolshevists in 1919 ?

  • A Proud Romanian

    Yes, you are right.

    Thanks for your great help in our liberation. I will thank a hungarian. We owe you much.

    I agree , Trianon was a terriable injustice

    • Leto of Corrino

      An injustice it was. Europe should give us back our land within the next 24 months.
      But people from Romania, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Serbia, Croatia and Slovenia should not worry, we will not chase them out of their properties.
      They should just pay a fair tax to Hungary: 27% VAT and 44% Trianon tax on all goods and activities. They also need to respect the Hungarian constitution, recognize Orban as an Emperor and obey all his orders.

    • Andrei

      You are a romanian as I am a martian..
      Trianon was the most just peace treaty ever.

  • qweee

    When you lose a war, you lose territory. It is that simple. Why some Hungarian people do not understand this simple rule? If you do not accept reality, the Italians could claim that half of Hungary (from the western border to the Danube) still belongs to the Roman Empire, together with most of Europe. C’mon…

  • Alfredo Garcia

    Hungary has a wonderful history of choosing the wrong side. Bad luck guys, it was 100 years ago. Time to move on, luzers.

    • Andrei

      bad luck? I would say it is just arrogance and stupidity.
      And they are doing it again: lately they made enemies with all their neibourghs, EU is critising them, they are no friend of Russia, nor the US.

    • Leto

      No, it was 92 years and 3 days and 20 hours ago. And no, we’re not going to forget it.

      • Alfredo Garcia

        Lozerto. Why don’t you do something constructive like join your Garda buddies and invade Slovakia?

        • Leto

          I don’t have Gárda buddies.

        • sheesh

          Leto is just a racist Fidesz minion, didn’t you know?

          • Leto

            I’m no racist but you’re definitely a postcommie bastard.

          • Alfredo Garcia

            I’m just a dude who knows that Hungary is terminally f*<ked and the sad f*<ks like Letsgo who live here don't know it.

  • true democracy

    Andrei,
    Romania was nothing but a country of sheep herders
    throughout the centuries. Look at your history !

    Romania was a big German allay at the start of WW2 and like the italians when the going gets tough they get going. Latino character! For this the western powers reward them? If it wasn’t for trianon Translyvania would remain with Hungary for another thousand years!

    Justice for Hungary will come!

  • Dan

    leto, true democracy and the rest of you, you’re way to frustrated, your mom’s milk was sour?

  • Lady Jessica

    Trianon was 92 years ago but loosing large quantitie of land or sovereignty always leaves a country and it’s people traumatized. I used to live in Scotland which lost it’s sovereignty at the Battle of Culloden on 16 April 1746. And the Scots still speak about it as if it only just happened and if they all knew Bonnie Price Charlie personally. That is almost 150 years ago.You do the maths. Compared to that the Trianon and Hungary’s loss of so much territory literally just happened. You cannot expect Hungarians to move on and forget about it.

    • Leto

      “That is almost 150 years ago.”

      No, that was 266 years, 1 month and 23 days ago. :)

    • American in Budapest

      Germany has lost probably 95% over the last hundred years. All of its oversea possessions as well as what was Eastern Germany, now Western Poland.

  • true democracy

    Well said Lady Jessica. We will never forget. Justice for Hungary!
    God bless Scotland!

  • messzimama

    A bunch of ignorant idiots discussing history learnt from books written by similar idiots

  • Daniel

    Just Asking pretty much summed it up when he was referring to territorial integrity.
    It is a simple fact that Hungary comprised of the Carpathian basin, and no one questioned that. In 1890, the idea that one day Romania will own the territories it owns today was borderline lunatic, even amongs the Romanian minority itself.
    You see, there was absolutely no historical precedence for Romania owning Transylvania, or the Czechs owning Slovakia. It was just inconcievable.
    So basically what I am trying to say here is, man up Romanians, and all you other Hungarophobes, and Trianon has nothing to do with you, it was simply the desire of the Imperialist Elites who wanted nothing but to destabilize that region. It worked quite well.
    It’s quite humorous to see Romanians or Slovaks scramble to find somekind of Hitorical, or indeed moral justification for what happened.

  • keepin it real

    It’s very amusing to see Hungarian chauvinists still whining and whimpering about Trianon. You guys should be grateful, the Allies were unnecessarily generous. Trianon was the first and last time in Central European history when borders were drawn based on notions of human rights and self-determination. Let’s not forget that Hungary was at that point a defeated and occupied nation, and the fact that it still got to keep almost every territory where Hungarians were a majority was a pretty good deal.

    Hungarians should also be grateful to Romania for many things. For liberating them in 1919 and 1944, for treating the Hungarian minority better than any other country that has a Hungarian minority, and not doing to Hungarians after 1945 what Czechoslovakia did to Hungarians and Germans (send them back en masse). So stop whining about imaginary “injustice” and let’s move on.

    • Leto

      The very last things, which the Trianon borders were based on, were the notions of human rights and self-determination. One could safely say the borders were drawn solely based on the interests of the victorious great powers and on the “vae victis” principle. The “Wilson principles” about people’s self-determination were pretty much ignored and that’s exactly why the USA didn’t sign the Treaty of Trianon. (Later Hungary and the USA signed a separate peace treaty in Washington).

  • true democracy

    Romania liberating Hungary, dream on!
    The only time Romania could actually step into Hungary was at the end of both world wars as a mop up operation when Hungary’s military was already crushed by the western allies.

    When Hugary took back northern Translyvania in Ww2 romanians in fear just handed it over. Why was that? There was no opposition and the “mighty” romanian army was in was in hiding !Read the history books!

    • Leto

      “Why was that? ”

      Because both parties agreed to the Vienna arbiters:
      -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Awards

    • keepin it real

      Read up on some history, kid. In 1919 Hungary attacked Romania, and got severely beaten. In the process, Romania generously liberated Hungary from the Communists.

      The Vienna Diktat was very different. In 1918-19 Romania liberated Transylvania by fighting Hungarian occupiers directly. In 1940 Hungary just hid behind their Nazi daddy Adolf. Hungary would have never had a chance in a war against Romania, without Nazi and Soviet intervention.

    • American in Budapest

      Well, Hungary had Nazi Germany on its side.

  • wolfi

    Really ? wiki says:

    “By this award, Germany and Italy compelled Romania to cede half of Transylvania (an area henceforth known as Northern Transylvania) to Hungary on 30 August 1940. This decision was taken not so much to do justice as to win Hungary for German war aims.”

    So Romania agreed – just as Hungary agreed to and signed Trianon …

    Always whining about the dwead past …

    • Leto

      @unwelcome alcoholic foreigner in my country:

      Hungary was forced to sign the Trianon Dictat and Rumania was compelled to agree to the Vienna arbitrage which atoned for a lot of injustice in the Trianon Dictat.

      • keepin it real

        And what exactly is that “injustice”, moron? None of you Hungarian extremists are ever able to produce one single real reason why Trianon was “unjust”. On the other hand, I gave you several reasons why Trianon was generous to Hungary (excessively generous, in my opinion).

        • Leto

          And what exactly is that “injustice”

          The whole of the Trianon Dictat. Wasn’t that clear from my post? Have another go at it or take some more English lessons.

          • keepin it real

            My English is fine (definitely better than yours) but your cognitive skills are that of mentally challenged pre-pubescent kid. You blabber a lot but are unable to give one single specific reason that the Trianon TREATY (not dictat, dummy) was “unjust”. You must be a really angry, frustrated and pathetic person. If you are male, you probably have a minuscule dick.

          • Leto

            It was a dictate. That’s why I write Trianon Dictate.

            -http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dictate

            FYI, a dictate means a treaty which is forced (holding the victim at gunpoint) onto someone. I hope I could help to improve your English, you szőröstalpú barom.

          • keepin it real

            Bullshit, my dear retarded Leto. Nobody put a gun to Hungary’s head (unlike the situation in 1940). Hungary could have refused the terms of the treaty and instead negotiated directly with Romania and Czechoslovakia. That would probably have been fairer, and we would have had fairer borders (along the river Tisa, the best natural border)

          • Leto

            Face it, szőrostalpú barom, Erdély was granted to you by the great powers, foremost by France. This was because they simple wanted to disintegrate the “backyard of the Germans”.

  • seinean

    Sould be added that Romania allready was compelled by the USSR to cede Bessarabia on June 26, 1940 , and – later on the same year – it was again compelled by Germany to cede Southern Dobuja ( the so called Quadrilateral ) to Bulgaria on September the 7-th 1940 …

    • Leto

      Yeah, Bessarabia, like Transylvania, was also a booty given to Rumania after WWI.

      -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bessarabia#Part_of_Romania

      “The United States refused to sign the treaty on the grounds that Russia was not represented at the Conference. Soviet Russia (and later, the USSR) did not recognize the union, and by 1924, after its demands for a regional plebiscite were declined by Romania for the second time, declared Bessarabia to be Soviet territory under foreign occupation.

      The US also considered Bessarabia a territory under Romanian occupation, rather than Romanian territory, despite existing political and economic relations between the US and Romania.”

      • seinean

        Booty Leto ? Just that in 1818 when Russia took Bessarabia the border was established on the Pruth without ANY regards to the ethnic situation . It was the Russian and the Turkish envoies deciding upon their master’s will…

        We had our “Trianons” too , you know.

        Another question at Radio Erevan:

        Q: With whom is USSR bordering ?
        A: With whoever they want.

        • seinean

          *1812

      • seinean

        OTOH – since you consider relevant the US stance on a territory belonging to one country or another – you’ll be happy to be gently reminded that Transylania’s belonging to Romania is recognized by the US ( and all the other countries in the World, including Hungary).

        • seinean

          * Transylvania’s

  • seinean

    *should

  • wolfi

    My dictionary says compelled = forced …

    And now something completely OT for Orbán’s rabid kutya, HH69 and the other right wing loonies:

    \Israelis flock by the thousands to Tel Aviv’s annual Gay Pride Parade
    Speaking at the event, attended by thousands of tourists U.S. ambassador to Israel Dan Shapiro says: Human rights are gay rights and gay rights are human rights.\

    -http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/israelis-flock-by-the-thousands-to-tel-aviv-s-annual-gay-pride-parade-1.435237

  • get real

    I like your jokes guys!

    Romania got back what other stole from them!It was not gave to Romania it was done a justice !

    First ,the huns aka mongols stole Transylvania when they settle here, second Basarabia was stole by the Russians in 1812 !

    Trianon, put justice and since then no other territorial
    conflicts have occurred!

    Get over it and don’t pay attention to the FIDESZ propaganda!

    • keepin it real

      I don’t agree with you here. Hungarians aren’t related to the Mongols or Huns. Genetically, they aren’t even related to the ancient Magyars. Hungarians are basically Magyarized Slavs and Romanians. The ancient Magyars were a Mongoloid tribe from Kazakhstan, and I’ve never seen a Hungarian with Asian features, they’re all white and European.

  • qweee

    Still no answer to my simple question: why should a nation that lost a war complain for decades about new borders being dictated by winners? That’s how history works, why Hungarians have a different view of it? Look at what Austria lost to Italy in 1918, or Italy to Jugoslavia after 1945. That’s how it works, like it or not. If you do not like it, don’t start a war. Whiners.

    • Leto

      What an absolute asshole you are. :)

  • Anonym

    It is just me or this discusion seems to be between some romanians, some slovaks, one italian guy, a scotish lady and Leto, posting with different nicknames?

  • true democracy

    Look at the simple facts. For the last thousand years translyvania was never in romania’s hands. If they had any miltary strength they would have challenged Hungary. The only time they they could take it
    was when it was given to them!

    • keepin it real

      You managed to get wrong every statement you made. Transylvania is back to Romania now and that’s all that matters. That won’t change. Also, there was no Hungary between 1526 and 1920. Next correction: Hungary has never won a war, or a battle, against Romania. Romanian troops marched through Budapest twice in the first half of the 20th century. Next correction: nobody “gave” Transylvania to Romania. The Romanian army had liberated Transylvania 2 years before Trianon. If anything, Trianon forced the Romanians to retreat further east than initially agreed on.

      • Leto

        “The Battle of Bucharest, also known as the Argeş-Neajlov Defensive Operation in Romania, was an important battle of the Romanian Campaign in World War I, in which the Central Powers occupied the Romanian capital and forced the Romanian Government, as well as the remnants of the Romanian Army to retreat to Moldova and re-establish its capital at Iaşi. The sheer number of troops involved, as well as the large area of operations, make it one of the most complex battles fought on Romanian soil during the war.

        Bucharest was eventually liberated after the Central Powers’ surrender in 1918.”

        -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bucharest

        • keepin it real

          Moron, there was no Hungary during the Battle of Bucharest, so my statement stands. It’s pathetic (but very funny) that you try to get credit for a campaign where the combined Austrian, German, Bulgarian and Turkish forces (again, no Hungary, which didn’t exist, and Hungarian soldiers in the Austrian army were useless anyway) were able to occupy part of Romania (but were ultimately unsuccesful anyway). It’s like saying “yeah, you’ve beaten the shit out of me each time I attacked you, but remember when 4 of my friends ganged up on you, before they were beaten as well?” Nice logic Leto. I bet your momma is proud of you.

          • Leto

            Combined Austrian-Hungarian, German, Bulgarian and Turkish forces, szőröstalpú vadbarom.

          • Leto

            Nope, sorry, no Turkish forces. Only German, Austrian-Hungarian and Bulgarian ones.

          • Leto

            BTW, after the Rumanian army was crushed in the December of 1916 by the Central Power troops led by General Mackensen, France and the United Kingdom provided a lot of military support to Rumania, not only weapons, but also a French military expeditionary force (led by General Berthelot) was deployed, they also supervised and trained the Rumanian troops.

        • keepin it real

          Realistically speaking, no country, especially a small one like Romania pre-1918, could beat the combined German, Austrian, Turkish and Bulgarian forces (and the Russians too, after 1917). In direct battle with only one of those, Romania was always successful. When Hungarians tried to fight a tired and depleted Romanian army, they were crushed. The French help was too little, too late. The conduct of the Romanian army, winning the war against all odds and despite being surrounded by enemies, was truly remarkable and heroic, and only a fool would deny that. Hungary has historically been good at starting wars, Romania at ending them, and that’s what matters.

          • Leto

            @szőrőstalpú vadbarom:

            No Turkish forces. German, Austrian-Hungarian and Bulgarian ones.
            The French and UK help was decisive. Huge supplies and also the military training.

          • keepin it real

            There were no “huge supplies” thanks to the Russians who did everything they could to delay or block shipments of weapons and ammunition to Romania. There was some limited French help with weapons and training, but only after Wallachia had already been occupied. However, most Romanian victories came after brutal hand-to-hand battles. The decisive weapon was the bayonette, and the merit goes to the bravery of the Romanian soldier, not to French help and not even the strategic thinking of Romanian officers.

          • Leto

            :D :D :D

  • true democracy

    Romanian cowards switching sides and getting rewarded for it?

    That shows their wimpy latino character. Romanian tanks were known to have five gears in reverse and one foward!

    • keepin it real

      Does Hungary have tanks and have they ever used them?

  • get real

    to all hun-garian idiots!

    How about Mohacs when “hun gary” got lost under turkish

    domination!

    In the so called ” 1000 of domination in Transylvania”

    the Magyars never ever were the dominant population!

    With hard maghyar-ization process they remained a minority

    It is pathetic on Duna Tv how they claim the former territories!
    Get over it never ever Transylvania was Hungarian, maybe occupied
    by Austro- Hungarian empire but mot Hun-gary!

    Romania did the right thing for the people, not like you losers! Stop crying and be European!

  • true democracy

    The kingdom of romania only emerged on the world map 1859. You are still a baby nation in european terms. We hungarians have close to a thousand years of experience over you!

    • Curious George

      Slovakia needed only 10 years (after meciar) to show it could outdo 1000 years of experience. Go on, keep looking backwards, and every baby nation will crawl past you.

    • keepin it real

      Modern Hungary only emerged in 1920 so we have 80 years over you. Also, Moldavia and Wallachia were independent principalities for centuries while Hungary was first a Turkish pashaluk and then an Austrian province. Not that it matters so much, but people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

  • Barney Bublé

    A question to Leto and fellow-travellers:
    In what circumstances do you think any of the lands lost by Hungary in Trianon would practically be restored to Hungary?

    • Andrei

      There is only one way that will happen: if the people living there decide so!
      The old days when you could get territories with brute force are gone. Historical arguments are not important either.
      If the vast majority of the people living in those territories whant to live in a new hungarian country, they will do so, if not that will never happen.
      So judging by the fact that hungarians are just a minority group in those lands, there is almost no way Hungary will ever get that lost land back.

  • true democracy

    We hungarians can shows incredible resistance even without an army! Look at 1956, regular civilians in Hungary giving the mighty Soviets a bloody nose.

    And in 1989, Laszlo Tokes and his parishoners and many other hungarians were pivotal in Romania’s liberation.
    We get things done!

    • keepin it real

      Laszlo Tokes had no role in the toppling of Ceausescu, and in 1956 the Hungarians stood no chance against the Russians. However, I agree that the Hungarians behaved heroically in 1956 and that’s the kind of legacy Hungarians should be proud of, not Horthy or Szalassi or the Habsburg Empire.

      • Leto

        “Laszló Tőkés had no role in the toppling of Ceausescu”

        :D :D

        Apart from that his extraordinary courage provided the spark which eventually did ignite “the puliszka which never explodes”*.

        * Puliszka is a simple dish, symbolizing poverty: -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C4%83m%C4%83lig%C4%83

        • keepin it real

          Keep telling that to yourself, my deluded little friend. The fact remains that Laszlo had NOTHING to do with the revolution and he never showed any “courage”. That was an urban myth made up afterwards.

          Mamaliga is delicious, healthy and nutritious. Roman legionnaires ate it as a staple diet (they made it with millet, rather than corn, obviously), and they were the most formidable army in history. Similar dishes exist in various parts of the world, from Italy to Brazil to Africa to the USA (grits). It certainly beats the rotten, raw meat kept under a horse’s saddle that your ancestors ate.

          • Leto

            :D

            Wikipedia says:

            “Like his father, Tőkés was a persistent critic of the totalitarian Ceauşescu regime. While a pastor in the Transylvanian town of Dézs, he contributed to the clandestine Hungarian-language journal Ellenpontok (“Counterpoints”; 1981-82). An article there on human rights abuses in Romania appears to have been the occasion of his first harassment by the secret police, the Securitate. He was reassigned to the village of Uzdiszentpéter, but refused to go and instead spent two years living in his parents’ house in Kolozsvár

            His situation was discussed in the U.S. Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, which led indirectly to his appointment to be assistant pastor in Temesvár, where he gave sermons that opposed the Romanian national government’s program of systematization, which proposed radical restructuring of the infrastructure of Romanian towns and villages. Smaller villages were deemed “irrational” and listed for reduction of services or forced removal of the population and physical destruction. This included the destruction of historic churches and monasteries. The program was seen by Hungarians and human rights activists as a particular threat to Hungarian villages, although Tőkés’ sermons did not single this out, calling for solidarity between Hungarians and Romanians. The governments of Hungary and West Germany, concerned for their national minorities in Transylvania, protested against systematization.

            In the summer of 1988, Tőkés organized opposition to systematization among Hungarian Reformed Church pastors, again drawing the attention of the Securitate. After the Securitate objected to a cultural festival organized on October 31, 1988 (Reformation Day), jointly with the amateur Hungarian-language theatre group “Thalia”, Bishop László Papp banned all youth activities in the Bánát (the region Temesvár is part of). Tőkés nonetheless worked together with the bishop of the Romanian Orthodox Church on another festival in spring 1989.

            On March 31, 1989, Papp ordered Tőkés to stop preaching in Temesvár and move to the isolated parish of Szilágyszeg. Tőkés refused the order, and his congregation supported him. The bishop began civil proceedings to evict him from his church flat. His power was cut off and his ration book taken away, but his parishioners continued to support and provision him. The state had some arrested and beaten. At least one, Ernő Ujvárossy, was found murdered in the woods outside Temesvár on September 14, and Tőkés’s father was briefly arrested.

            In July, 1989, Tőkés gave an interview to the Hungarian television, in which he complained that the Romanians do not even know their human rights. Tőkés explained the message and effect of this interview in a German TV series on the collapse of the Iron Curtain in 2008
            “ The message of this interview was that we do not have to support the dictatorship and the dictator Ceauşescu. This message of my interview was very much needed in order to demasque Ceauşescu.

            It had a shock effect upon the Rumanians, Securitate as well, on the people of Romania. The programme could be seen mostly here along the borders, because at that time it was forbidden to watch foreign TV channels. And those who saw it were shocked very much, and the copy of the interview was spread all over Romania, especially in Transilvania, and it had an unexpected effect upon the public atmosphere in Romania.

            A court ordered Tőkés’ eviction on October 20. He appealed. On November 2, four attackers armed with knives broke into his flat; Securitate agents looked on while he and his friends fought off the assailants. The Romanian ambassador was summoned to the Hungarian Foreign Ministry and told of the Hungarian government’s concern for his safety. His appeal was turned down, and his eviction set for Friday December 15

            As December 15 approached, Tőkés’ parishioners began something of a vigil outside his flat, refusing two guards’ orders to move along. On December 15, a human chain was formed around the block; the militia were unable to gain access. Tőkés thanked the crowd but advised them to leave, but several hundred stayed in groups close to the flat. His wife, Edit, who was pregnant at the time, fell ill. On December 16, the family doctor appeared to see Edit. Within half an hour, the mayor of Temesvát appeared with three more doctors, hoping to persuade Edit to head to a hospital. On the advice of their family doctor, she refused.

            Shortly afterward, workmen arrived to repair the damaged windows and door to the flat; presumably the mayor was hoping to defuse matters, but the crowds actually grew, with some young Romanians joining the Hungarian parishioners. Tőkés spoke with the mayor and again urged the crowd to disperse. The crowd remained; the mayor stormed away, returned at noon, and promised that Tőkés would not be evicted. The crowd remained; some of them accused Tőkés of collaborating with the authorities and demanded a written retraction of Tőkés’ transfer and eviction. The mayor promised to produce this within an hour; if he intended actually to do so, it proved impossible on a Saturday.

            After various negotiations with the mayor and the deputy mayor and the involvement of various delegations, the mayor gave an ultimatum for the crowd to disperse by 5 p.m. or face fire-brigade water cannons. Tőkés again pleaded with the crowd to disperse, but, possibly convinced that he was acting under threats from the Securitate, they refused. The crowd beckoned him to leave his apartment and come down to the street. He refused, presumably fearful of being seen as the leader of this resistance.

            Five p.m. came and went without water cannons. By 7 p.m. the crowds extended for several blocks and included many students from the local polytechnic and university, Hungarians and Romanians in a human chain, first singing hymns, but about 7:30 launching into the patriotic song Deşteaptă-te, române! (“Wake up, O, Romanian!”), banned in 1947 at the beginning of the communist dictatorship and sung during the November 1987 protests in Brassó

            In Deletant’s words, “The Hungarian protest had now become a Romanian revolt.” Cries were raised, “Down with Ceauşescu!” “Down with the regime!” and “Down with Communism!” The crowd moved out from around Tőkés’ flat and church, crossed a bridge, and headed for the city centre and Communist Party headquarters, where they threw stones before militia drove them back toward the church around 10 p.m. and the water cannons finally came into play. However, the crowd seized the cannons, broke them up, and threw the parts into the river Bega. A general spirit of roving riot ensued.

            Demonstrations continued the next two days. On Sunday, December 17, the army fired into the crowd. The number of casualties has been a matter of dispute; early reports were undoubtedly exaggerated. The number of deaths was 73 for the period December 16-22, 1989, and another 20 for the period after Ceauşescu fled. On Elena Ceauşescu’s orders, 40 of the dead were transported by truck (lorry) to Bucharest and cremated to make identification impossible.

            On December 18, tens of thousands of industrial workers in Timişoara peacefully took up the protest; by December 20 the city was effectively in insurrection.

            The news of the protests and the violent government crackdown spread quickly across Romania and triggered many more protests. They quickly escalated into the Romanian Revolution of 1989 that overthrew Ceauşescu and the Communist government.”

          • keepin it real

            I don’t have the patience to read propaganda, but I just wanted to point out that there are no places called “Dezs”, “Kolozsvar” or “Uzdiszentpéter” (I can’t even pronounce that) in Romania. They are probably fictional places from Lord of the Rings.

          • Leto

            Let’s note that those are names of those cities and villages in Erdély. I don’t care what you Rumanians call them and I don’t care either what you primitive szőröstalpú can pronounce or what you cannot.

          • keepin it real

            What, who or where is “Erdely”? Is it also from Lord of the Rings?

          • Leto

            @szőröstalpú vadbarom:

            FYI, that’s the word which Rumanians distorted into “Ardeal” and it means “In front of the woodlands” = “Erdő-elve -> Erdély”

            I’m glad I could help.

  • get real

    Let’s recap!

    The Austro-Hungary empire lost the war, so the Trianon decisions were made in the favor of the victors!
    This was the last empire to end up in the trash barrel of the history!
    As a result, new nations have emerged and become independent!

    Interesting, the “Magyar friends” are not discussing the Vienna Dictate, when the Germans and the Russians gave Hungary a gift, the North side of Transylvania.

    It is useless to mention the massacres of the Hondveds
    when they took over the Romanian territories!!

    So , that was a new chance to steal Romanian land and again, History made Justice:

    They left Transylvania with their tails between their legs !!
    Regarding that jerk, Lazslo Tokes, who was defended by Romanian heroes with the ultimate sacrifice, it’s a shame
    to name him a priest!
    Like the other jerk, Nyiro, Tokes instead to stay in a church, is doing politics with the hope of getting some kind of autonomy!

    The jerk, and the Maghyar comunity, never ever put a flower on the heroes graveyard as a thank for their sacrifices!

    One last remark:

    Arrogance is not power, is stupidity!

    When you will understand that, you will not surfer anymore
    from that inferiority complex that you “lost” Transylvania!
    You did not lost anything, because never was yours !!

    • Leto

      Let’s recap indeed.

      The Trianon decisions were made according to the “vae victis” principle. The Kingdom of Hungary was not an empire, it was an integral 1000 year old state which was partitioned according to the wishes and interests of the victorious great powers, first and foremost France, which wanted to dissolve the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy in order to keep Germany at bay. The “Wilson principles” (USA), declaring people’s right to self-determination, etc. were eventually not applied at all in the Trianon Dictate and this is why the USA refused to sign it.

      “You did not lost anything, because never was yours !!”

      We have lost Erdély in the Trianon Dictate, which was part of Hungary for a 1000 years, and you won it from the French as a war prize for your betraying the Central Powers.

  • true democracy

    Translyvania always was and always will be the hungarian spiritual and cultural heartland! Romanians know this too that is why they are so afraid of Hungary’s reawakening!

    Mark my words ,justice for Hungary will come!

    • keepin it real

      Don’t hold your breath. We won, you lost, get over it.

    • Andrei

      Ya, we are extremly afraid..
      Look at this numbers and you will understand how much afraid are we:
      Transilvania:
      6.000.000 romanian
      1.200.000 hungarians

  • true democracy

    Well said Leto!

  • keepin it real

    Let’s recap:

    - The “1000-year Kingdom of Hungary” is a complete myth, believed only by the severely uneducated. Between Mohacs and Trianon, there was no independent Hungary. Only a Turkish pashaluk, then an Austrian colony.

    - The fanatically xenophobic and deeply frustrated people who bash Trianon have been unable, after more than 100 comments, to articulate ONE single reason why drawing borders based on ethnic boundaries is “unjust”.

    - As I proved before, Trianon was uncommonly generous towards the country that started WWI (Austria-Hungary), and which was already occupied and with its army crushed. A “vae victis” treaty does not leave the defeated nations with their ethnic borders intact.

    - Without Trianon, Hungary would have had to negotiate borders directly with the Romanians, Czechoslovaks and Serbs. Not a very strong negotiating position for Hungary, with Budapest occupied and the army destroyed. Some of you would have been speaking Romanian and Slovak now.

    • Leto

      @szőröstalpú:

      Let’s recap (again).

      It’s the Daco fairy tales are which are complete myths, believed only by the severely uneducated… Rumanians.
      I understand that’s what you are spoon-fed but that doesn’t make them true. :D

      • American in Budapest

        And nothing you say is going to change the fact that your country is backward and full of fat losers with stinking breath …

        • Leto

          Get lost from my country, you obnoxious leech. Please crawl back to the rat hole you came from in the “advanced world”.

          • true democrazy

            Hard to deny this one, Leto. The real reason why people from all around the world dislike Hungarians is their terrible breath, bad smell and pimp/hooker looks.
            I know about several important investments that were canceled due to the Hungarians’ lack of hygiene.

  • true democracy

    You so called \won\ because trianon was nothing more than someone handed you over a piece of paper. Translyvania could have just as easily be awarded to the island state of Malta!

  • true democracy

    Some people (Romanians,Slovaks) still believe in fairy tails. I whole heartily agree! Lol

    It is time for them to wake up, as a wise man once said ….
    The truth will set them free!

  • Andrei

    I’n all hungarian censuses, pre-Trianon, romanians were in majority in Transilvania, so Transilvania was (and still is) romanian for over 2000 years.
    We had to support all kinds of migrations in this 2000 years period: avar, huns, germans, slavs, maghiars, turks, tatars etc but the land was always ours, and history proved that.

    • Andrei

      *In

  • DoubleH63

    @szőröstalpú

    “romanian for over 2000 years”

    Will you tell us next that Jesus was actually a bocskoros and not a J*w?

  • get real

    Guys, now you know why the Maghyars are losers!

    They are indoctrinated with this 1000 myth from which
    we can take out the Mohacs episode, like 150 years, and the
    humiliation they get being assimilated in that empire where they had the rol of “kis Miska” aka, servants,for an other 200 year, not to mention that Transylvania was an independent province for many years with self government.

    Stop dreaming,don’t levitate anymore, because you will hit the roof and you will face the reality!

  • DoubleH63

    @cigányzsidó

    “Look at this numbers and you will understand how much afraid are we:
    Transilvania:
    6.000.000 romanian
    1.200.000 hungarians

    Yes, the courage* of yours was shining bright when A.H. told you to go back to the Regat.

    *Pack everything on the wagons that was moveable.

    • Sam

      @bozgori cretini

      If you’ll be nice and behave I will send you some nice pictures from Transilvania.
      You could keep them under your pillows when you cry every night.

  • keepin it real

    I can imagine Leto and “true democracy” foaming at the mouth and getting red in the face because reality doesn’t fir in with their silly little fantasies.

    I also feel the need to add a caveat to my previous statement that modern Hungarians have nothing in common genetically with the ancient Magyars, a tribe of raw meat-eating Mongoloid pygmies from Kazakhstan. Leto and “true democracy” are two exceptions to that rule. They are true descendents of Arpad. They might even think rotten meat is a delicacy.

  • true democracy

    Two thousand years?lol ,Romanian fairy tales!

    Even better ,some romanians believe that Adam and Eve were
    Romanian!

    • keepin it real

      I think I found a pic of you and Leto:
      http://enfo.agt.bme.hu/drupal/sites/default/files/kazak2.png

    • Sam

      Yap, two thousand years ago, when our ancestors, geto-dacians where fighting the Roman Empire your ancestors where living in cages in Mongolia and didnt develop language yet.

      • Sam

        ** living in caves

  • true democracy

    We have culture and class. Bucharest only wished it looked liked Budapest!

  • DoubleH63

    @get real (bocskoros cigány)

    I thought you said you were done. [You sure were done like a turkey.]
    You can stop feeding your fairy tales on this site, nobody believes you besides your kind.

  • Rich culture!

    We hungarians have culture and class.

    Bucharest only wished it looked and had what Budapest has! The only thing it has is a similiar sounding name.
    Bucharest is a Budapest wanna be!

    • Sam

      Of course Budapest is nicer then Bucharest. This is because you had a very nice and easy history for about 1000 years.
      You fought with the ottomans only once and you remained scared for life (Mohacs).

      We had to fight the turks every fucking year.

  • Rich culture!

    Why is it that all your jewel cities are today in occupied Translyvania, like Kolozsvar,Nagyvarad,Marosvasarhely……ect

    They are jewel cities because they all have hungarian fingerprints all over it.Romanians the last thousand years in translvania were not much more than glorified sheep herders!

  • Zsolt

    I am fed up with racist Romanians , they write those fairy tales about their history to hide that they are more or less gypsies.
    Why in the nine hell they have darker skin than the neighboring countries?- because the gypsy blood on them.You came from India.

    • true democrazy

      Romanians descend from the ancient Romans.
      You can read more here: friesian.com/decdenc1.htm

      Concerning the Hungarians, the inbreeding was always very widespread in this country. This historical inbreeding had given many hereditary weaknesses, mental illnesses, insanity and widespread depression. The suicide rate in Hungary is 2.03 times higher than in Romania, as many Hungarians can not stand the idea how they came on this world.

      Despite that more than 90 percent of those died in suicide and those attempting one suffer from a psychiatric illness in the time of the event, which is in most cases major depression (56-87%), alcohol or drug related illness (26-55%), schizophrenia (6-13%), or personality disorders, especially borderline personality disorder, the social and cultural factors increase the risk for suicidal behaviour and have a great importance both in Hungary and Hargitha County.

      You can see the stats here: internetandpsychiatry.com/joomla/home-page/editorials-and-commentaries/550-is-suicide-a-hungarian-phenomenon.html

      • Leto

        “Romanians descend from the ancient Romans.”

        :D :D

        @szőröstalpú sheep shepherd:

        So are your Daco fairy tales turning into Roma fairy tales? ;)

        • Cockito

          Damn, are you still around? No money for a rope?

  • get real

    Szolty boy, Hungary is more gypsy than Romania!
    Soon 15% of population will be gypsy!
    You guys you have the same origins: Asia!
    I can;t understand why this brotherhood don’t work???
    Well ,I tell you why,the gypsies are smarter than their brothers the Magyars,and have a much richer culture!
    90% of the Maghyar folk music is \ cigany zene\
    What other prove you want to demonstrate the brotherhood
    of the two Asian Nations?
    the only difference is that the Magyars are arrogant and stupid the others are talented and smart!

    Now, to all Magyar losers here ,as may you noticed, all
    the Romanians on this debate, have brought arguments to the table and not insults like you!

    Once you bring insults and not arguments, you are:
    IRRELEVANT!

    megertteted?

  • Alexandru

    Hungary has no future, it’s a country full of retards like Leto and Cognito, too stupid to be given freedom so these retards all voted for the almighty Viktator and now follow their leader like if he was the new Messiah.
    No wonder nothing good has come out of Hungary since Rubik’s Cube in the Seventies.
    Hopefully the Hungarians will stick to Fidesz “Egy porta, egy koca” program, become full time pig owners and stop embarrassing the rest of civilized Europe.

  • Draco

    Actually, Trianon was injustice for Romania too, because it didn’t give us the land all the way to Tisa where a majority of Romanians live. And, in fact, we are also looking at receiving back the lands of Mighty Saint Dacia all the way to the Tatra mountains, wehrefrom Romanians were chaced away and dislocated by the Magyar hordes. Yes, that’s historically true, Magyars in Hungary of today are occupying Romanian lands. We want it all back and soon!

    • Dracu

      The very same way like we got into Transylvania from the Balkans, we will declare Italy and Spain occupied Romanian lands, too. There are already millions of suffering Romanian brothers living in these places.

      • Andrei

        We did not got into Transilvania from the Balkans.
        When Leto is without arguments, he starts posting as a romanian.
        Lame and pathetic!
        Hungaria = Gypsi Land!

        • Leto

          You certainly did.
          The very first written mentioning of “vlachs” (in a Byzantine chronicle) is from 1015… and it says they lived south of the Danube.

          Dacia was conquered in A.D. 106 by the Romans and it was under Roman rule until 271 (that’s 165 years) In comparison, the full romanization of Gallia and Hispania took more like 400-500 years. People conquered by the Romans preserved their language everywhere for a lot longer time than one and a half century…
          The chronicles also say that a big part of Dacians never ever lived under Roman rule and there are written records about Dacian speaking tribes several centuries after the Romans withdrew. The Dacian language is practically unknown and, apart from a few place, person and plant names, maybe 50 words altogether, there are no written records about the Dacian language. Practically any word of unknown origin in Rumanian is classified “Dacian”. :)

          There are hardly any words of Germanic Goth origin in Rumanian even though the Goths lived in the territory of Transylvania for at least 300 years, after the Romans left. The Goths were driven away by the Gepids (also Germanic) and then by the Huns, speaking a Turk language, and the Daco tales say your ancestors stayed in place.
          For some miraculous reason, there are hardly any Turk words in Rumanian either. :D

          These Turk language* people ruled the area until the Avars arrived in the 6th century. Avars also spoke a Turk language. Weird that something like 600 years of rule by Turk language peoples didn’t leave any trace in Rumanian, isn’t it? ;)

          * Old Turk languages have practically nothing to do with Ottoman Turkish

          On the other hand there are a lot ofcommon basicwords in Rumanian and Albanian. Now guess why? ;) Besides the most significant non-Latin language strata of Rumanian is Slavic.

          Okay, I know very well your Daco fairy tales sound much better to your ears but the truth is the ancestors of Rumanians migrated northwards from the Balkans into Transylvania, starting from the 12th century at the earliest.

          • seinean

            Leto :”…the truth is the ancestors of Rumanians migrated northwards from the Balkans into Transylvania, starting from the 12th century at the earliest.”

            The “truth” is that nobody KNOWS for sure how it was. Neither you nor the whole academic society of the World (that is if they really cared). There are arguments in favour and against the continuity theory. You obviously picked the ones that suited your thesis. Stating that one theory is THE “true” one has more to do with faith than scientific facts.

          • Leto

            @seinean:

            This is the most likely story. Chronicles, language analysis.

          • seinean

            And the “Continuity Theory” is considered more likely by the mainstream WW historians.

            Again – one or the other – it is more FAITH than science.

            Besides – there is a third theory that started to pick-up in the last 50 years or so…

          • Leto

            You didn’t even try to address anything I wrote. The “continuity theory” is quite simply a piece of BS. :) More politely: Daco fairy tales.

          • Leto

            So, for a start, try to explain the lack of Germanic Goth and Turk words in Rumanian and the large vocabulary of basic words shared by Albanian. :)

          • seinean

            Leto:”So, for a start, try to explain …”

            I won’t enter this game. I am an engineer not a historian even if I am passionate about history and I consider that it is THE most beautifull ( fairy :) ) tale ever. I simply don’t have the needed abilities.

            There are arguments against and for both the continuity theory and the immigration theory. I am proned to consider more likely the “third” theory ( the so called ‘admigration theory’ ), but I’m sure that a nationalist Hungarian would reject it as well because it “locates” Romanians in Transylvania before AD 1000.

            PS. Speaking of words and what they suggest : the Croatian/Serbian word for History is “povjest” and the Romanian word for “Story” is “poveste”…

            PPS: I love my country and my people, but I don’t consider that I need to hate or discredit ( or even to dislike) any foreign kin in order to prove or to strengthen my love.

            PPPS: It allways stricken me how, in verbal disputes with Romanians , nationalistic Hungarians NEVER use positive arguments. The Hungarians and the Hungarian state had positive contributions in several key moments of the “becoming” of the Romanians. I’ll just let you guess what those moments are.

          • Leto

            @seinan:

            Fairy tales are fine… as long as they are not taught in school textbooks as history in order to fuel chauvinistic sentiments.
            Have you heard the latest news about a Hungarian woman beaten up in Kolozsvár because she spoke Hungarian?

          • Leto

            PS: Note how I make a distinction between “chauvinism” and “nationalism”. I consider both myself and yourself nationalists.
            Draco, Alexandru, get real, etc. are chauvinists.

            The distinction is similar to that when I distinguish between political opponents and political enemies in Hungarian internal politics.

          • Draco

            That’s 995 and the author is the Bizantine emperor and historian Vasile Bulgaroctonul – who in fact claims the Blachs (Latkn speaking people at the time) from the whole Balkan peninsula fail.me from North of the Danube. So your claim there a FAIL.

            PS: Before that momentLatin speaking people in Balkans were referred to as Romaioi or literally Rome’s heirs in Balkans to diferrentiate them from Greeks and Slavs.

          • Leto

            Just face the fact that your ancestors are those shepherds who migrated into Transylvania from that area where the Aromanians still live to this very day. Some took their sheep northwards, some didn’t.

            -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromanians

          • Leto

            As fully expected, the topic of Aromanians is thoroughly embarrassing for the Daco fairy tale tellers. :)

          • seinean

            Leto: “Have you heard the latest news about a Hungarian woman beaten up in Kolozsvár because she spoke Hungarian?”

            I did . Here what she had to say about the incident:

            “Leszálltam a buszról, eközben a telefonomon beszéltem, a két 30 év körüli férfi a nyomomba szegődött. Amikor utolértek, azt mondták, hogy ha magyarul akarok beszélni, akkor menjek Magyarországra. Az egyik meglökött, és én megkérdeztem, mit csinál, ekkor a másik teljes erejéből nekilökött a falnak, majd mindketten elfutottak. A jobb szemem ugyan fel van dagadva, de azt sajnálom a legjobban, hogy ilyen dolgok megtörténnek” – mondta el megkeresésünkre D. Henrietta.

            Am coborat de pe autobuz in timp ce vorbeam pe telefonul meu, cei doi barbati in jur de 30 ani m-au urmarit. Cand m-au ajuns in urma, mi-au zis ca daca vreau sa vorbesc in maghiara sa ma duc in Ungaria. Unul m-a impins, iar eu l-am intrebat ce face, in acel moment celalalt m-a izbit de perete cu toata puterea, dupa aceea amandoi au fugit. Am ochiul drept umflat, dar cel mai rau imi pare ca asemenea lucruri se pot intampla” – a declarat la cererea noastra D. Henrietta

          • Leto. مؤدّب

            @seinean:

            It happened to me (around 1987) that I was riding an old shabby and very crowded bus with Hungarian backpacker friends when an aggressive and primitive looking man in a straw hat told us something. Neither of us spoke Rumanian and we didn’t bother much. Soon he got rather agitated and he started shouting at us. Eventually somebody told us in broken Hungarian that he doesn’t want us to speak Hungarian. I’ll never forget that scene and my astonishment.

          • Leto. مؤدّب

            Sorry. I left out the conclusion: So such a story sounds incredible at first but unfortunately it’s quite conceivable in Transylvania.

          • Paul

            @ Leto

            “Have you heard the latest news about a Hungarian woman beaten up in Kolozsvár because she spoke Hungarian?”…..which is very relative….some context
            Have you heard news about the disgusting treatment of thousands of refugees….Reuters:
            ILL TREATMENT
            Verbal abuse and ill treatment are a common practice of guards who have little or no training in dealing with refugees and rarely have a way to communicate with them, according to the report and former inmates interviewed by Reuters.

            Prisoners are often cuffed and led around on a leash. Beatings are frequent and the report says detainees are routinely tranquilised.

            So such a story sounds incredible at first but unfortunately it’s quite conceivable in Hungary.

          • Leto. مؤدّب

            @Paul:

            Did this happen in the Netherlands? How sad. But I’m not surprised so much.

          • Paul

            @ Leto

            Prisoners are often cuffed and led around on a leash.

            No…it doesn’t happen in the Netherlands even close…some proof please. Real political asylum seekers..who do have a legitimate reason to seek asylum…are welcome and treated very well…like real refugees in 1956 from Hungary were welcomed with open arms.

          • Leto. مؤدّب

            @Paul:

            This is very off-topic here. And to tell the truth I’m not interested how prisoners are cuffed and led around on a leash in the Netherlands. Maybe it’s one of your weird sexual perversions.

          • Curious George

            @Leto – in almost every discussion here, instead of addressing issues about Hungary, you’re deflecting by bringing in totally irrelevant issues such as
            a. What may or may not have happened in the Netherlands.
            b. What some professor supposedly said in France.
            c. Some alleged abuse you faced in Romania
            d. Censorship in Canada, Germany, UK,…..

            And this is just in the past 2 days alone. Give it a rest, man.

          • Paul

            @ Leto
            “This is very off-topic here. And to tell the truth I’m not interested how prisoners are cuffed and led around on a leash in the Netherlands. Maybe it’s one of your weird sexual perversions.”
            So this is it? A cheap insult…telling so much about your way of thinking…and no reply at all, except you do not care?

          • justasking

            @George,

            ‘in almost every discussion here, instead of addressing issues about Hungary’

            Well, let’s hold on a second here…it gets tiring after awhile, when the articles posted on this site are constantly hammering Hungary and Hungarians on their minority and or human rights report-cards; while their next door neighbors treatment of SAME groups are by far worse.

            What sends me into a tailspin, you have people from these neighboring countries, as well as fellow EU posters, not saying ‘hey folks, we’re in the same boat’ or ‘yeah, we could treat our minorities better as well’ but acting as if their countries have nary an issue.

            ———

            ‘And this is just in the past 2 days alone. Give it a rest, man’

            I disagree, he’s simply telling people ‘hey, lets Put things in perspective here or ‘you have no room to talk’.

            I agree with his techniques, until some around here get off their high-horse, stop acting like where they live/come from is the be all and end all.

            On this site, pending on who you are… discrimination is tolerated, violence is tolerated, name calling is tolerated…dismissed as unimportant.

        • Leto. مؤدّب

          @Paul:
          Yeah, I don’t care. Maybe don’t cuff them all the time and take them off the lead sometimes.

          @CG:

          Hungary was missing from that censorship list. That was that point. Maybe it was the bone in your nose which prevented from you seeing this.

      • Paul

        @ Leto
        ‘are cuffed and led around on a leash in the Netherlands’ Apart from this being an too obvious lie.

  • get real

    To Leto, the loser,

    80% of the Romanian language has the roots in the Latin language!!!which is European!
    That’s demonstrate again that our ancestors did not came to this land from other parts of the world ,like the
    ruthless hun occupier from Asia!

    How many proves you need to understand that you guys are not welcomed here and in other parts of Europe like Croatia, Serbia, Slovakia!

    Once again this is true:
    stupid people can’t be fixed so I guess is wast of time
    to make this losers to understand!

    • Zsolt

      Bwahahahahaha

      Indeed you Gypsies are welcomed everywhere:D:D:D

      And stop this fairy tales you are gypsies , it is enough to look at you.

    • Leto

      szőröstalpú vadbarom writes “80% of the Romanian language has the roots in the Latin language!!”

      And the truth is

      “Since the 19th century, many modern words were borrowed from the other Romance languages, especially from French and Italian (for example: birou “desk, office”, avion “airplane”, exploata “exploit”). It was estimated that about 38% of the number of words in Romanian are of French and/or Italian origin (in many cases both languages); and adding this to the words that were inherited from Latin, about 75%-85% of Romanian words can be traced to Latin. The use of these Romanianized French and Italian loanwords has tended to increase at the expense of Slavic loanwords, many of which have become rare or fallen out of use. As second or third languages, French and Italian themselves are better known in Romania than in Romania’s neighbors. Along with the switch to the Latin alphabet in Moldova, the re-latinization of the vocabulary has tended to reinforce the Latin character of the language.”

      (Wikipedia)

      • seinean

        Leto , the English language that we now use to communicate has more than 50% of the words of Latin origin and YET it is belonging to the Germanic family of languages. So this argument is moot.

        And what the heck all that has to do with Trianon again ?

        • Leto

          “And what the heck all that has to do with Trianon again ?”

          Maybe you’d better ask your Rumanian compatriots. :) I only reflected on the quoted sentence.

  • keepin it real

    A few hours ago, a Hungarian candidate for the local Romanian elections accidentally shot himself in the head (in the same village where, in 1944, Hungarian locals tortured and murdered wounded Romanian soldiers). Maybe he was still suffering because of Trianon. Leto & co: you could follow his example and put yourself out of the misery of enduring the “injustice” of Trianon.

    • Cockito

      Seems that at last some justice is served.

  • Zsolt

    Probably killed by the Romanian(Gypsien) secret police, well you were always murderers , nothing else ….

    • Cockito

      You know that’s not true. Nobody killed like the Hungarians. The Fascist elements in Hungary always enjoyed broad popular support and your hero Miklos Horthy’s dictatorial government concluded an alliance with Nazi Germany, murdering 565,000 Hungarian Jews.

    • Leto

      That cannot be ruled out indeed.

  • Andrei

    Hunagrians have to get going..
    They are nomadic people who like the wonder from place to place just like their ancestors.
    When they find a nice place they settle there for a long period enslaving people and deploying all the resources they find.
    Well now that europe knows who you really are it’s time to pack your bags and get going again.
    There is no single european nation that likes your kind, you managed to fool them for awile but now it’s time to go.
    And by the way, you could take with you the fellow nomadic people and friends of yours: the gypsies.
    Maybe you could establish a new glorious Kingdom of Hungary. somewhere near Rwanda. (and your new Atilla could be the Viktator)

  • get real

    Zolthy, you are the best example why your jerk nationals
    are so hated all over!

    you are stupid, uneducated and full of shit!

    Because of this you are where you are!
    Bad choices are right rewards for others!

    Viva Trianon !

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i25efG6_dug&feature=related&skipcontrinter=1

  • get real

    One more thing,

    If the actual Romanian government, turn loose the Romanians in Transylvania, by doing your shit of revisionism,and let the people to learn about the atrocities of the huns after the Vienna Dictate, I bat the Magyars here, would be sorry for the day they were born!

    The wise Romanian government, let that jerk ,Kover to do his game, despite the fact that he had offended the sovereignty of an European country with his low attitude
    supported by a stupid arrogance!!!

    But this is too high for you ignorant losers!

  • true democracy

    There are way more gypsies in romania than any other country in europe. Their census says only 2 -3%.They even say that Csangos and Szekelys are magyarized romanians! Any serious historian laughs at
    romanian claims.

    The truth is romania’s whole history and country is built on lies and will crumble like a house of cards!

  • true democracy

    I have a great question……….

    Why are there so many romanians here on a hungarian website?
    Perhaps the romanian culture is lacking more than I thought!

    • Curious George

      “I have a great question…..”

      What a let-down. My dog would have done better.

  • get real

    Somebody has to educate you losers and wipe out the indoctrination on which you grew up!

    This is the best from “true democracy”:

    “The truth is romania’s whole history and country is built on lies and will crumble like a house of cards!”

    This is exactly what happened to the Austro-Hungaria, fall apart, because was build on lies and has crumble like a house of cards!!!:):):)after the wwI and sealed at Trianon! This is a fact you have to deal with forever:)

    I told you that, people like you can’t keep the stolen land from others!

    What a bunch of losers!

    In fact, Bulgaria has the biggest number of gypsies,followed by Hungary!

    Bring in arguments not insults!

  • true democracy

    Why do you pick on the Roma?
    Your nation was named after them!

    Roma=Romania

    • Andrei

      The ‘roma’ name for the gypsies is an idea/project of a wicked hungarian – George Soros.
      They never referead to themselves as ‘roma’.
      This is a name popularized especially to hurt romanians.
      By the way are the ‘roma’ people from Hungary speaking romanian? Of course not. What about the bulgarians roma people?
      Soon, bulgarians and hungarians will be in minority in their own country. You guys have a lot of ‘roma’.
      We were smarter then you: we incurajed them to go, go to France, Italy etc. (maybe that hurst our image on the short term, but on the long term we get to keep our country)
      Slowly we are getting rid of them. Let the europeans solve their problems.

    • seinean

      Roma = citta aperta !

  • keepin it real

    Confusing Roma with Romania is as idiotic as confusing Austria with Australia or fun with funeral. Or Hungary with hunger. Are the inhabitants of Rome, or of Emiglia-Romagna also gypsies? By the way, by far the biggest percentages of Gypsies in Romania are in the so-called “Szekler Land” (especially in Mures county). And Hungarians should be more tolerant of gypsies, since, according to wikipedia, 25% of all new births in Hungary are gypsies. Plus, basically all traditional Hungarian music is of gypsy origin (and pretty good, by the way, I appreciate Hungarian music)

    Budapest has indeed class and culture. Which cannot be said of the average FIDESZ/Jobbik supporter commenting here. Orban and his disciples, along with Basescu and his disciples, should go to Mongolia and leave Hungary and Romania to normal, civilized people.

  • get real

    The good news from this debate is that the honveds are learning things they did not know before!

    The arrogance blinded their judgement and they have accepted
    only what the Magyar propaganda was promoting for many years!

    As we prove it here, the Romanians came to the debate with arguments and not with propaganda!
    We are where we are, because we did better choices!

    Trianon, just have confirmed our wisdom:)

  • true democracy

    It is great romanians believe in their own fairy tales!

    If only they could convince the rest of europe!

  • qweee

    Leto, oh Leto, I just asked you one thing but you did not answer, as usual: I’ll repeat it here for everyone else: “why should a nation that lost a war complain for decades about new borders being dictated by winners? That’s how history works, why Hungarians have a different view of it? Look at what Austria lost to Italy in 1918, or Italy to Jugoslavia after 1945. That’s how it works, like it or not. If you do not like it, don’t start a war. Whiners.”
    Thank you all guys, you are an entertaining bunch anyway.
    By the way, the name Trianon is remembered in Western Europe only because there is a restaurant in Paris and a pizzeria in Napoli who both have that name (and excellent cuisine too). MOVE ON, Hungary!

  • get real

    One more example that you, the Magyars are not so smart!

    You sent that jerk, Kover elvtas, in Transylvania to break the Romanians-Magyars unity!

    In the big Transylvania cities at the local elections ,the

    Liberal Social Unity party have won the elections!

    Thank you again for this help, because the LSU party
    is a patriotic party and never ever will cut a deal
    with the Transylvania Maghyar, nazi parties!

    Say good bye to the so called “Autonomy” utopia !!!

  • DoubleH63

    @queer

    “Look at what Austria lost to Italy in 1918”

    More like 1919; South-Tyrol. That’s the big fucking dismemberment Bowen (J*w Commie) thought was more significant than the Hungarian loss.
    And as for you rainbow guy, South-Tyrol got autonomy.
    The latest? They refuse to sing the Italian Anthem in the schools. Maybe they are waking up, like many in Hungary?

    • qweee

      South Tyrol is Italy now, they are semi-autonomous but apart from some rare dickhead nobody complains about long-forgotten peace treaties. Life goes on pretty well down there, you know? That’s because they work hard and do not think of the past. I have friends there and they also get a lot of benefits for being in Italy, believe me…

  • get real

    Never in Romania!

    Who don’t likes in Romania it’s free to go in Hungary!

    We pay for transportation:)

  • keepin it real

    The so-called “migration theory” about Transylvania is nothing more than an 18th century Hungarist fantasy based purely on wishful thinking and nationalistic fairytales. The so-called “arguments” are so ridiculous that they aren’t worth the time discussing, we might as well talk about hobbits or Harry Potter. And the fact that a discredited theory like that is the best thing people like Leto can come up to support their Trianon obsession is quite amusing.

    To sum up the whole debate, one thing is clear. There may be chauvinism and racism on all sides, but at least the Romanian/Slovak/Serb side has articulated clear arguments that Trianon was very fair. I like to think the likes of Leto, Cogito, true democracy etc are not representative of Hungarians in general. These are simply angry, pathetic and frustrated people struggling with their own delusions and obsessions. I feel honestly sorry for them and i wish one day they realize that so much anger and frustration are bad for your mental and physical health. I hope they don’t end up killing themselves over Trianon.

    • Leto

      To sum up the whole ‘debate’, one thing is clear. There may be chauvinism and racism on all sides but at least the ones who benefited from the interests and wishes of the victorious great powers, mainly of France, that is for example the Rumanians who got Transylvania as a war prize for their betraying the Central Powers, feel some kind of guilt in the back of their mind because of the gross injustice the Trianon Dictate did to Hungary.

      I tend to think posters like ‘keepin it real’ (and its variations), Draco, Alexandru, Sam, etc. are quite representative of Rumanians in general and civil minded seinean is really the minority. The former ones are simply chauvinistic, pathetic and frustrated people struggling with their Daco delusions and obsessions.
      To tell the truth, I don’t really feel sorry for them and I hope one day they’d get their reward as far as their mental and physical health goes: a good billious attack in a mental asylum. :)

      • keepin it real

        bla bla bla bla. repeating the same retarded nonsense ad nauseam, plus parroting what I pointed out about your delusions and obsessions. I can imagine you talking to yourself in the street, and if someone asks why you’re talking to yourself, you get red in the face and scream: “no, you’re the one talking to yourself!”

        I’m tempted to feel amused by the likes of Leto but I guess it would be mean and cruel to laugh at the expense of people with obvious mental problems.

  • get real

    Leto, how about to talk about your origines in Asia!

    Here is the birth certificate of the Romanian people!

    Trajan’s Column (Italian: Colonna Traiana) is a Roman triumphal column in Rome, Italy, which commemorates Roman emperor Trajan’s victory in the Dacian Wars. It was probably constructed under the supervision of the architect Apollodorus of Damascus at the order of the Roman Senate. It is located in Trajan’s Forum, built near the Quirinal Hill, north of the Roman Forum. Completed in AD 113, the freestanding column is most famous for its spiral bas relief, that artistically describes the epic wars between the Romans and Dacians (101–102 and 105–106). Its design has inspired numerous victory columns, both ancient and modern.

    • keepin it real

      Leto’s ancestors came from Kazakhstan, like Borat. Jagshemash!

      (but at least Borat isn’t depressive and suicidal)

    • Leto

      In fact that “birth certificate” was issued in the deep Balkans, next to the Albanians, where the Aromanian shepherds still live to this very day, szőröstalpú vadbarom. :)

      You know this is why the Rumanian “strungă” (a place for milking sheep; narrow passage, canyon) and the Albanian “shtrungë” (sheep-pen; passage) or the Rumanian “bîr” (archacic ‘sheep’ preserved as interjection, a call for the sheep to come) and the Albanian word “berr” (sheep) are identical. :D

      • Leto

        Not to mention equally essential and basic words like the Rumanian word ‘baliga’ and the Albanian word ‘bajgë’… meaning “dung”. :D

  • get real

    Leto you are retarded but is not your fault!

    Your syphilitic parent did not used condom so you are the result!
    I tell you why you are a retarded! Dacia had a territory
    10X of Hungary if not more!

    Go to Sarmisegetuza, and see the ruins and read about it!

    Now here are your ancestors:

    Jordanes, a Goth writing in Italy in 551, a century after the collapse of the Hunnic Empire, describes the Huns as a “savage race, which dwelt at first in the swamps, a stunted, foul and puny tribe, scarcely human, and having no language save one which bore but slight resemblance to human speech.”

    “They made their foes flee in horror because their swarthy aspect was fearful, and they had, if I may call it so, a sort of shapeless lump, not a head, with pin-holes rather than eyes. Their hardihood is evident in their wild appearance, and they are beings who are cruel to their children on the very day they are born. For they cut the cheeks of the males with a sword, so that before they receive the nourishment of milk they must learn to endure wounds. Hence they grow old beardless and their young men are without comeliness, because a face furrowed by the sword spoils by its scars the natural beauty of a beard. They are short in stature, quick in bodily movement, alert horsemen, broad shouldered, ready in the use of bow and arrow, and have firm-set necks which are ever erect in pride. Though they live in the form of men, they have the cruelty of wild beasts.”[44]:127-8

    Get lost you jerk!

    • Leto

      @szőröstalpú vadbarom:

      You sheep-sh*ggers had nothing to do with Dacia because your ancestors moved their sheep northwards from that area in the south of the Balkans where the Aromanians still live. :D

      “Aromanians, or Vlachs (Aromanian: Armânji, Rromânji, Makidonji), are a Latin people native throughout the southern Balkans, especially in northern and central Greece, southern Albania, the Republic of Macedonia, south-western Bulgaria, and, as an emigrant community, in Serbia and Romania (Dobrudja). They are a native people in the regions of Epirus, Thessalia and Macedonia. An older term used for them is Macedo-Aromanians. Especially in Greece, the term Vlachs (Vlahoi) is widespread; this term is sometimes used outside Greece to encompass all Latin-descended peoples of the Balkans, including the modern day Romanians.

      The Vlachs speak Aromanian, a Latin-derived language similar to Romanian, which has many slightly varying dialects of its own. The Aromanian language descends from the vulgar Latin spoken by native Balkan people subsequent to their Latinization by Rome. It is a mix of domestic and Latin language with additional influences from other surrounding languages of the Balkan peninsula, such as Bulgarian, Greek and Albanian.”

      -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromanians

      • keepin it real

        Leto, so Aromanians are your new obsession? Have Aromanians fu*ked your mother or something?

        Some people think Aromanians are just a branch of Romanians, I think they’re a different people (like Italians and Sicilians). In any case, as the descendants of the greatest civilization in history, they have plenty to be proud of. Their ancestors had cities, roads and high culture while your ancestors ate raw meat, communicated with grunts, and slept under the open sky in the wastelands of Kazakhstan.

        • Leto

          Yes, Aromanians are just a branch of Rumanians (who stayed in the south of the Balkans)… or you can put it another way: Rumanians are a branch of Aromanians who moved their sheep northwards and migrated into Erdély.

        • Nastase

          The Hungarian language still sounds like grunting; it’s a very primitive language that did hardly evolve. Back in the days, Hungarians were not able to translate the bible into their primitive language, because they had 1,200 words only. Today, Hungarians might have more words but they are not able to make a proper sentence.
          I have met many Hungarians in a business context, and the English of 90% of them is worse than my 5yo nephew, who learned English from watching cartoons.

          The few Hungarians that meant something in history, were all from j*wish origin or foreigners. Even their so loved hero Petőfi was a Slovak with the original name Alexander Petrovics.

          Hungarian greatness? If you check the history and facts, you’ll see that they were always lame cowards. Trianon happened for a good reason.

          • Leto

            Hey szőröstalpú vadbarom,

            You forgot to write that the grandfather of King Matthias, one of our greatest kings, was probably Vlach. ;)

            Now go and shave the thick hair on your sole and say a Daco mantra, please.

          • ,justasking,

            @Nastase,

            Excerpt from Most difficult languages .org:

            ’4) Hungarian: First of all, Hungarian has 35 cases or noun forms. That fact alone makes it a candidate in this list. Hungarian is full of very expressive, idiomatic words, and suffixes. The high amount of vowels and their deep-in-the throat sound makes it very hard to speak as well. It takes more effort to learn it and maintain what you learned then most other languages.’

            Your difficulty in grasping and understanding Hungarian, makes YOU the primitive candidate, and not the language.
            ———–

            ‘I have met many Hungarians in a business context, and the English of 90% of them is worse than my 5yo nephew, who learned English from watching cartoons’

            If a young child is watching that much TV, so as to ‘learn’ a language by it…if I were you? I’d start focusing on his home-life and his parents lack of attention towards him, rather than trying hard (and failing miserably I might add) to sound intelligent and worldly.
            —–

            ‘The few Hungarians that meant something in history, were all from j*wish origin’

            So, what you’re saying is…J*ws can’t be anything other than J*wish? They cannot be NOT German, American, Canadians, French, Spanish etc? Just plain ol’ J*wish?

            Would this not then apply to Catholics? Protestants? Calvinists? Mormons? Muslim????
            ———
            ‘Even their so loved hero Petőfi was a Slovak with the original name Alexander Petrovics’

            Well, to an intelligent person, (obvious to me, why you didn’t pick up on this one) what greater compliment could one give to the Hungarian people, their culture, history etc?

            Here you have a person, born into a nationality (assuming that is, that he is not J*wish, for according to you, they can not claim a nationality, they are their religion)rejecting the ‘original’ one, for something else. One, that obviously resonated within him, to his very soul. And the insult in that would be?????
            ——
            ‘Hungarian greatness? If you check the history and facts, you’ll see that they were always lame cowards’

            No, not lame and never cowards.

            Now, you want cowards? Shuffle on over to Romania, study their ‘history’, where their ‘price’ is always so obvious.
            ———

            ‘Trianon happened for a good reason’

            Damn rights it did…so that Central Europe, will never, ever, ever, pose a threat to Western Europe again.

  • trollolah

    The Rumanian: an ill-conceived hybrid of two radically different racial types, Latin and Slav. If a street thug from Napoli married a charwoman from Minsk, their children would resemble the average Rumanian of today.

    • Stefan

      At least we have a will to live.

      The high level of inbreeding of the Hungarian population might explain why Hungarians all want to end their lives and/or agreeing to be sent to psychiatric institutions. A degenerated race of depressed nutcases. (source: OECD Factbook)

      “Hungarians are renowned for their pessimism, depression is a nationwide problem, and they have the highest suicide rate in the world, according to the World Health Organization.
      You can hardly meet with a Hungarian who wouldn’t have relatives or friends who committed suicide – it’s a kind of national disease, it’s a kind of sickness.

      The sadness and gloom has a long tradition in the country’s history. Many famous historical figures, from the middle ages to modern times, ended their life with suicide. The politician revered as ‘The Greatest Hungarian’, Istvan Szechényi killed himself, as did a wartime prime minister, Pal Teleki, as did the poet Attila Jozsef, and as did the actor Zoltan Latinovits at the very same train station where the poet threw himself in front of a train.

      Not only many people kill themselves in Hungary but they also often choose brutal methods: they jump down wells, hang themselves, or drink pesticides.

      The high rate of suicide, however, is just one symptom of the Hungarians’ dire mental health, psychiatrists say. About twenty-five percent of the population suffer of anxiety illnesses, and a very large part of it coupled with depression. There is a growing number of mental disorders and the rate of alcoholism and smoking is also alarmingly high, experts say.

      If I were a Hungarian, I’d probably want to kill myself asap too.

      • ,justasking,

        @Stefan,

        Did you find your post, ‘humorous’? Was it your intent to be insulting? What kind of a person, finds glory in others misery?

        Just out of curiosity…did you regret hitting the submit button for this post, or is this simply ‘another day in the life of Stefan’?

  • get real

    letoka,take your history medicine first, go and f7776ck your mother, maybe more like you, stupid, Magyars will born!

    From 12 Transylvania counties only two cities, in the recent elections got Maghyar, bozgor, Mayors, in Harghita
    and Covasna

    that can tell you that the maghyars are a insignificant minority that is tolerated ,but not for long!

    Go and sue all of those who told you that Transylvania is Maghyar, and start learning about Kazakhstan where your
    barbar ancestors came from!

    • ,justasking,

      @get real,

      You really are a pig, you know that????!!!???

  • quiq
    • trollolah

      Štefánik, killed by his own army!

      His Italian plane identification colours were mistaken for similar ID colours of Hungarian planes, so the un-announced, unknown airplane was shot down by the Czechoslovak army. Hail the Red, White and Green!

  • wolfi

    It’s really funny that the Romanians here keep Orbán’s kutya aka leto occupied trying to find some worthwhile info in wiki, so it doesn’t have time to comment on more important things like the election results in Romania or the latest corruption scandal involving Közgep and Fidesz …

    • Leto

      @unwelcome foreigner alcoholic foreigner in my country:

      Hey, why don’t you join these Rumanian dacomaniacs in their Hungarian-bashing attempts? ;)

      • Leto

        Sorry, too much “foreigner” :D :D

        I meant to write:
        “unwelcome alcoholic foreigner in my country”

        • Curious George

          More like too much palinka!

          • Leto

            More like too much coffee. :(

    • Tommy Raymond

      A drunken Fidesz junk on a caffeine high? That can’t be good!

  • wolfi

    Another irrelevant “answer” from Orbán’s kutya …

    • ,justasking,

      @wolf-pup,

      Well, an irrelevant poster, only deserves irrelevant an ‘irrelevant’ answer.

  • true democracy

    Many hungarians are depressed because we have Romania as a neighbour,who wouldn’t be?

    Romania is very fortunate it was given translvania.Just look at all the great churches,universities ,castles and culture we left behind over the past thousand plus years.Because of this translvania has a much higher of standard of living than old romania.Everyone in romania
    knows this.

    That is why romania is forever indebted to the hungarian people.
    The least they should do is thank a hungarian!

    • Stefan

      The least they should do is thank a hungarian!
      ——-
      Sure, we thank Orban everyday.
      (for his efforts to bring Hungary back to the level of a Third World country).

  • trollolah

    So many Rumanians honoring us with their presence on this Hungarian site! Let us be generous and talk a little about them.

    Ethnogenesis of the Rumanian people was the result of conquest, genocide and rape! Such a nice, peaceful start to Rumanian People!

    The Romans destroyed ancient Dacia and killed nearly all of the Dacian men and boys. The Roman soldiers, mostly born in Syria, Arabia and North Afrika, then rape the grieving widows and virgin Dacian girls. After 160 years, Kaiser Aurelianus moved results of this copulation south of the Danube to Balkans.

    • Leto

      Read my post at June 10, 2012 at 9:12 pm.
      Today’s Rumanians have nothing to do at all with Roman Dacia which existed for 165 years in the 2nd and 3rd centuries. They’ve got to do only with the Aromanians who still live in the region of Albania, Macedonia and Greece.

  • keepin it real

    Leto, trolloloah, true democracy and all the other Hungarist trolls, goblins and elves: rise for your national anthem:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfPrQqbikb4

  • Florida Boy

    Awake, You must have another 200 post by the end of your day. Very entertaining, however it seems as if you may all be playing the violin as Rome burns to ashes.

  • Leto مؤدّب

    Dear friends, let’s try to reach 300 comments by tonight.
    That would be a great way to show the world that Hungarian and Romanian people can establish a high-quality and polite public dialogue about important matters as Trianon and the stolen land that you postcommie bastards occupy.

    • Leto. مؤدّب

      @Erik:

      A few months ago you said you would do something about nick forging but nothing happened…

      • Leto of Tianjin

        @Leto: cry baby, you can’t own all the Leto nicks in this universe. Just pick one and leave the other nicks for the other Leto’s on this planet. Mine is “Leto of Tianjin” and my niece is named “Velvet Leto” because she’s a big fan of Lou Reed.

        • Leto. مؤدّب

          @rotten postcommie bastard:

          There’s a small difference between using a similar nickname to mine and using the very same one as the handle I was using. The post “June 13, 2012 at 11:47 am” was not written by me.

          • Leto of Tianjin

            And not by me either. I only use Leto of Tianjin (Leto is my family name, Tianjin my city of origin). I don’t have Arabic on my computer, and Tianjin is 天津, so no confusion possible here.

          • Leto of Tianjin

            Actually I would appreciate if you could stop calling me these names. I’m a communist, but not a bastard and certainly not a post communist.
            I still praise Mao Tse-Tung and the little red book everyday in the same way as Hungarians praise Orban and the members of the national water polo team.

  • true democracy

    At least romanians should not be barbaric and respect human rights if they were given translyvania.

    A few days ago a young hungarian girl was attacked by two men in their thirties because she was speaking hungarian on a cellphone in “multicultural” kolozsvar.

    Csango people can’t even have Mass in hungarian in their own churches.

    This mentality is very primitive

  • get real

    Ok. I propose to keep this thread until 06/ 2020
    when we celebrate the 100 year anniversary of the Trianon!

    Any thoughts?:):):)??

    • Leto of a dark place up my asshole

      Yes, I’m looking forward to it

  • olga

    @ JA

    re: “@get real, You really are a pig, you know that????!!!???”

    A useful pig as far as I am concerned. I think he and others like him serve an excellent purpose to remind Hungarian people everywhere of the subhuman mentality the Hungarian minority has to deal with in Romania.

    We may not agree with seinean but at least his perspective is interesting and I am pretty sure his views are representative of the post-Trianon education offered in Romania. I have no doubt that if my parents had been Romanian, they would have given me a vast different interpretation of the Treaty than they did as Hungarians.
    (That’s why I like the Churchill and President Wilson quotes, although no doubt they would also go under the heading of “Rabid Hungarian Nationalists” by some anti-Hungarian weirdos who are regular on this website.)

    Personally, I believe that going back to history hundreds of years before Trianon takes the focus off the present day lives of ethnic Hungarians, so at the end of the day, they are the only ones suffering discrimination

    If I were at the negotiating table, I would sign off that next to Jesus, only Romanians and Slovakians were the only examples of perfection who ever walked the face of this earth, provided these countries’ governments would recognize the rights of ethnic Hungarians something along the lines of the French Canadians in Canada. The similarity of “history” is not the issue, because there is not much there , the common thread is the right to be recognized as a “distinct society” for different reasons.

    • justasking

      @Olga,

      ‘provided these countries’ governments would recognize the rights of ethnic Hungarians something along the lines of the French Canadians in Canada. The similarity of “history” is not the issue, because there is not much there , the common thread is the right to be recognized as a “distinct society” for different reasons.’

      Why is this so bloody hard for people to understand??///

  • wolfi

    And now for something completely different:

    “In his character there is not any sign of compromise,” says Attila Mesterházy, the current leader of the Socialist Party. “He always wants to break through; he loves the conflict.”

    No, this is not a description of Orbán’s kutya – this is about “Pitbull Orbán” himself:

    -http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/03/16/hungarys_pit_bull_prime_minister?page=0,3&wpisrc=obnetwork

    The conclusion:

    “The most important thing to know about Orbán is that he is the best and the most effective in a conflict. He doesn’t like peace, he doesn’t like normality,” says Eörsi. “He cannot stop fighting. Like a shark, he cannot stop eating.”

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