June 8th, 2012

Lawyer fined for ketchuping Basic Law

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The Second and Third District Court reprimanded lawyer Péter Dániel on Thursday and ordered him to pay Ft 407 in procedural costs for having poured ketchup on the Basic Law in the Second District mayoral office last year.

The verdict can be appealled within eight days. Dániel admitted the act, but said it was not a misdemeanour but a way of expressing political opinion.

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  • Anonymous

    Bottle of ketchup and HUF407 sounds like pretty good value for making a statement and getting publicity. Anyone want to share a bottle. We can run off a few copies of the current version and get some instand fame. Yea….its friday afternoon.

  • Cnut

    That thing needs ketchup. It’s really too dry without some kind of sauce.

  • Leto

    The sentence proves that courts do need a thorough cleansing in Hungary. 407 Forints wouldn’t buy even a bottle of ketchup.

    • Cockito

      You must have the IQ of a Debreceni sausage. Without mustard.
      FYI: you aren’t even funny, just pathetic.

  • Update man

    **Recent Update**

    The Hungarian Bar Association for lawyers just fined the jacka$$ 160,000 FT for his action. Please check recent updates regarding the case.

  • Viking

    Leto says:
    June 8, 2012 at 4:06 pm

    The sentence proves that courts do need a thorough cleansing in Hungary
    —

    So what would the punishment for protesting against the Fidesz Law be then?

    Put In’s Russia just introduced hefty fines for demonstrating against Put In, something similar for The Viktator?

  • olga

    @ Viking

    What are you saying, that it’s acceptable for a lawyer who swore to uphold the law to pour paint over a statue and ketchup over legal documents?

  • American in Budapest

    Olga,

    You are unbelievable. You Hungarians have authoritarianism in your genes …

    • Cogito

      Idiot

      • Cockito

        Wow! Did you come up with this all by yourself, or was it a group effort of the United Miskolc Fidesz Geniuses?!

        • Cogito

          Hey Cockhead :) Just keep it coming, slowly but surely you are turning into a (tragi)comedy. :) Just don’t let us get bored here by bailing out on us, we all need a good laugh :)

    • Leto. مؤدّب

      @Obnoxious vermin in Budapest:

      Are you a geneticist, too?
      According to Ákos Kertész, a J*wish writer, who was once a honorary citizen of Budapest and who he is still a holder of the prestigious Kossuth Award and who has emigrated to Canada (and now he’s become a ‘martyr’ to your kind), we, Hungarians have inferiority in our genes.

  • olga

    @ Obnoxious

    I shall not dignify your “genetic comment” by responding , however, you made it abundantly clear that New York is the center of the Universe so as a token for my deep respect for your opinions, I took 120 seconds of my life to research New York State Laws on Vandalism and the first google hit was:

    “Vandalism in New York is punished based on the amount of damage. Vandalism is defined under New York law as mischief, and occurs when a individual intentionally damages another’s property. The penalty for vandalism is based upon how the act is classified under New York law, which in turn is based upon the severity of the act. Under New York law, vandalism can be charged as either a misdemeanor or felony. ”

    There are 4 degrees of vandalism and I picked #3 as the appropriate charge but being a repeat offender might make a difference in the sentencing phase

    “Criminal Mischief in the 3rd Degree
    Third degree criminal mischief under Section 145.05 covers vandalism between $250 and $1,500. Third degree criminal mischief is punished as a class E felony, which carries a minimum of one year incarceration in addition to fines. ”

    Thus, please correct me if I am wrong but I did get the impression that just like in Hungary, Peter Daniel’s actions would be dealt with by the courts even in the center of the Universe.

    While on the subject of “actions” there was a “predictable reaction” as in the despicable affair concerning the Wallenberg state but I gather that in your learned opinion, my disgust and contempt would also be attributed to “genetics”

    If you want to argue the point that one action was more cowardly than the other because of the anonymity I would have to consider the possibility that one person wanted publicity knowing the vandalism law including the fine, while the other was a garden variety slug

    I spent another 30 seconds of my life (Oh, you are welcome) trying to figure out where you would fit in given the option of facing consequences or “trying to get away with it anonymously” and I would put my money on a bet that for you anonymity would trump free publicity with a small fine

  • DoubleH63

    @Cockito

    Just one question…Are you by any chance an Ashkenazi?

    • Cockito

      The DNA tests of my family return Haplogroup Q results on the 12 markers: 13, 23, 13, 10, 11, 14, 15, 30, 14, 16, 12, 12. Overall I have a 0.144 Ashkenazi; -0.12 Druze score.

  • judas

    the real question in this saga is:
    why Hungary decided to renew the “horthy cult” with satues,street names and plaza renaming as well as the reburial of Nyiro in transsylvania “?
    what purpose does this kind of nostalgia serve?What political message
    is behind it?
    Horthy’s deeds as reichsverweser and white terror head are known.
    Horthys letter to hitler in 1943 excusing himself for not being more effective in dealing with jews and jewish business is documented.
    Nyiro’s idelogical contributions to the “Arrow crss” are well documented too. So what are we talking about? Back to the “good” nazi times?
    I am convinced that’s what is behind this new/old cult and Victor
    has been able to blind the public and the world.He sees humself walking in horthys shoes,as an admiral who sinks his ship even before it left harbour. Orban ,eastern europes Bahar Assad.
    Daniel Peter’s ketchup attack on the statue is a helpless attempt to
    stop this cult. He got fined which is ok, but it does not change anything.

    • Leto

      Mainly because of Horthy, Hungary was a safe heaven for J*ws almost until the end of WWII. That’s why 100,000 J*ws fled to Hungary from the neigbouring countries. Plus after the Nazi occupation Horthy managed to save the J*wish community from deportation in Budapest.
      You and this Gyurcsány-fan Dániel should be grateful to him. Instead you behave like the frozen viper saved by the farmer.

    • ,justasking,

      @judas,

      First off, fix up that mess, that you all created in Palestine creating your ‘safe haven’…then, and only then, can you come on this site a start questioning other countries/peoples motives.

      Stop deflecting and man up…not only do you have no room to talk; but, no room to cast stones either.

  • Paul

    Quote wikipedia,Horthy: “As regards the Jewish problem, I have been an anti-Semite throughout my life. I have never had contact with Jews. I have considered it intolerable that here in Hungary everything, every factory, bank, large fortune, business, theater, press, commerce, etc. should be in Jewish hands, and that the Jew should be the image reflected of Hungary, especially abroad.

    A true Icon….a treasure for humanity…but not. Disgusting.

    • ,justasking,

      @Paul,

      ‘Disgusting’

      And your not?

      You bitch about Leto being devoted to Fidesz, ignoring what’s ‘obviously’ in-front of him…his blind loyalty to this party. Yet, you submit a post, claiming how much you ‘love’ democracy, and ‘love’ the EU. As if it was the second coming of Christ!

      You like to think your different in you devotion than Leto…but, you’re not….hypocrite!

  • Paul

    Your whole comment is about distorting facts and manipulating. I believe in democracy, I think the EU is in the interest of all countries concerned. Not the second coming of Christ at all….this is where you manipulate first…..Leto is defending Fidesz…nothing wrong with that at all….making an icon out of an anti-Semitic personality is disgusting to me. You calling me a hypocrite is absurd. You do not know me at all and your proof over here is flawed to say the least. But I just proofed that you are a manipulating personality.

    • ,justasking,

      @Paul,

      So, that’s going to be your response, saying that I have a ‘manipulating personality’; after you just whined ****’You calling me a hypocrite is absurd. You do not know me at all and your proof over here is flawed to say the least’***

      Anybody reading any of your pigeon English posts, will have all the ‘proof’ they will ever need.

      Horthy should be honoured (and I for one am bloody happy that he is) for what he had achieved in 24 short years in Hungary. I can only imagine what could have been if WWII hadn’t interrupt him.

      Who he personally liked or didn’t, I could give 2 shits…his intent, up until WWII, was in the interest of any and all Hungarians. Besides, what the hell did YOUR country do, to stop the ‘anti-S*mitism wave, that took over Europe at that time? Oh, yeah…jack-shit!

      So, you move along you little hypocrite, and tiptoe your field of tulips towards you glasshouse.

      • Paul

        @Justasking
        One last thing: “Who he personally liked or didn’t, I could give 2 shits…(yep not caring about anti Semitism, I know already, makes you a racist”…what the hell did YOUR country do, to stop the ‘anti-Semitism wave, that took over Europe at that time? “We had a resistance movement in the war…we arrested and punished those collaborators after the war. Some were executed….Horthy would have been if he were Dutch. Right now we have zero-tolerance for racism…that is why we have only 27 neo-nazis left.

        No use talking to you any more. (name calling and manipulating and racism) You are a self confessed racist. Good luck with Jobbik your soul mates.

        • justasking,

          @Paul,

          ‘…(yep not caring about anti Semitism, I know already, makes you a racist”’

          Ohhh, the ‘racist’ card!!! Wow, aren’t you original…Well, I suppose, it would take one to know one..eh?

          Unlike YOU, I find it offensive to discriminate against anybody. Little turds like you, think nothing of discriminating against a group of people from one side of your mouth, and scream ‘racism, racism’ like girl from the other side.
          ——

          ‘We had a resistance movement in the war…we arrested and punished those collaborators after the war. Some were executed’

          So, in other words…f*ck all?
          ——–

          ‘Horthy would have been if he were Dutch’

          No…unless of course those courts were stacked with Judges as racist as you that is; then he would have been.

          People like you enjoy a good witch-hunt…deflects from the fact that you lacked the balls to do something when you could have, and chose not too. No, you all were too busy waiting for us Canucks to save your tulip powdered asses from the Nazi’s…weren’t you?
          ——–

          ‘Right now we have zero-tolerance for racism…’

          Unless of course it’s against Muslims or Islam that is…
          ——–

          ‘No use talking to you any more’

          You have yet to ‘talk’ to anybody on this site who holds a different view from you….you lack the gene to ‘simply agree to disagree’.

          • Paul

            @ Justasking

            I changed my mind!
            After all it would be a bad idea to let your remarks stay over here without correction.

            “Ohhh, the ‘racist’ card!!! Wow, aren’t you original…”

            You manipulate again: I am not playing cards here. I am very clearly condemning racism. If you obviously tolerate it so easily…you are as guilty as the racists themselves. It is called collaborating.

            “Well, I suppose, it would take one to know one..eh? “…don’t suppose….(it is called insinuating) facts please proof that I am a racist…you can not. So, another distortion and manipulation.

            “People like you enjoy a good witch-hunt…deflects from the fact that you lacked the balls to do something when you could have”..I was born decades after the war.. Not likely that I could have done something is it?

            No, I do not enjoy a witch-hunt…yes, like so many others, countless organisations and personalities. (The list is very long.) I am very critical towards this government.

            About the insulting tone…..you obviously enjoy making insults. You do it a lot. Most healthy people don’t. Every public relation advisor will explain to you that it backfires. Hope you will grasp that once.

          • Paul

            @ Justasking
            Oh, one more thing
            “No…unless of course those courts were stacked with Judges as racist as you that is; then he would have been.”….apart from the…again…insinuation without any proof that I am a racist….you have to explain this one. Dutch judges….sentencing Dutch collaborators….where is the racism in this one? Doesn’t make any sense at all. Just asking you to explain what you mean here.

          • justasking,

            @Paul,

            ‘Dutch judges….sentencing Dutch collaborators….where is the racism in this one?’

            Considering how smart you think you are; focus on what you just wrote. Unless of course, you’re of the opinion, that there is no such thing as a racist Dutchmen?

            Now, go back and reread what you wrote, and the response I gave to you. If after all that, you insist that I dumb it down further…I will.
            ———–

          • justasking

            @Paul,

            How the Hell, did I miss this post???
            —

            ‘I changed my mind!’

            Yeah, I get the impression that happens allot with you…usually has to do with the way the wind blows I bet.
            ——–

            ‘ I am not playing cards here’

            Here you had me laughing..’not playing cards’ you’re funny is a pathetic sorta way.
            ———–

            ‘I am very clearly condemning racism’

            Do you even know, what racism means? If you did, you wouldn’t have called me one. Sure, I made a provocative statement (which I meant) does not make me a racist.
            ——
            ‘If you obviously tolerate it so easily…you are as guilty as the racists themselves. It is called collaborating.’

            Seriously? Respecting another persons opinion is considered ‘collaborating’ in your world. And YOU claim, to ‘love’ democracy?
            ——

            ‘don’t suppose….(it is called insinuating) facts please proof that I am a racist…you can not. So, another distortion and manipulation’

            So…I’m to provide ‘proof’, and you’re free to throw out labels at will?? And the fairness in that would be…??
            ——
            ‘”..I was born decades after the war.. Not likely that I could have done something is it?’

            Hey, I was simply responding to your example…
            ———-
            ‘No, I do not enjoy a witch-hunt’

            Yeah you do…you allow public opinion to cement your own…probably because your lazy. It’s easier to be spoon fed, than to learn to eat on your own.
            ——–

            ‘Most healthy people don’t. Every public relation advisor will explain to you that it backfires. Hope you will grasp that once’

            Yeah, some of us don’t need to hire consultants to be ‘told’ about the boomerang effect…obviously you do.

            Have you ever stopped to think, that you’re simply getting back everything and more, that you have ever dished out on this site?

            Nothing personal…

        • Leto. مؤدّب

          And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye, Dutchman?

          -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Netherlands_%281939%E2%80%931945%29

          “The occupying forces were supported by a minority of the Dutch. Active resistance was carried out by a small minority which grew in the course of the four-and-a-half years of the occupation. The Germans deported the majority of the country’s Jews to concentration camps, with the assistance of the Dutch police and civil service: the Netherlands had one of the highest levels of collaboration with the Nazis during the Holocaust. 75% of the country’s Jewish population were exterminated, a much higher percentage than countries like Belgium and France.”

          • Leto. مؤدّب

            Ah, some more tidbits for you to chew on in Nazi stuff, Dutchman: :D

            “The Nederlandsche SS in total counted circa 7,000 members and was primarily a political formation. In addition it served as a reservoir for the Waffen-SS ”

            “Between 20,000 and 25,000 Dutchmen volunteered to serve in the Heer and the Waffen-SS.”

            See the same link above.

            Dutch Resistance:
            “The Dutch themselves, especially their official war historian Dr Loe de Jong, director of the official State Institute for War Documentation (Rijksinstituut voor Oorlogsdocumentatie, RIOD, now NIOD) distinguished between several types of resistance. Going into hiding, at which the Dutch appeared to excel, was generally not categorised by the Dutch as resistance because of the passive nature of such an act; helping these so-called ‘onderduikers’ (‘under divers’) was, but more or less reluctantly so. Non-compliance with German rules, wishes or commands or German condoned Dutch rule, was also not considered resistance. According to official publications, sabotage on an extensive scale must have appeared at those companies in Holland that kept on working during the war (collaboration was rife in the country), but until lately this was not seen as resistance.”

            -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Resistance

            :D

            The Dutchman on that very high horse wrote also:

            “we arrested and punished those collaborators after the war. Some were executed…”

            Did you mean this, Paul? ;)

            “After the war, some who were thought to have collaborated with the Germans were lynched or otherwise punished without a trial. Men who had fought with the Germans in the Wehrmacht or Waffen-SS were used to clear minefields and suffered losses accordingly. Others were sentenced by courts for treason. Some were proven to have been wrongly arrested and were cleared of charges, sometimes after having been in custody for a long period of time.”

          • Paul

            @ Leto

            You did your homework very well. I never will deny the dark parts , which are also there, of our history. I never did.
            Can tell you even worse, war crimes were committed in Indonesia in the early fifties…war criminals were hardly ever punished.
            We live in 2012 though. I was born decades after the war. No one over here is blaming Angela Merkel for the German occupation during the war. We are supposed to learn from our mistakes, and the current German generation, for example, certainly did.

          • Leto. مؤدّب

            @Paul:

            All this puts your sentence (“Horthy would have been executed if he were Dutch”) in perspective. You mean that Admiral Horthy whose feet-dragging policy postponed Hungary’s occupation by Nazi Germany until 1944 and who personally prevented the deportation of J*ws from Budapest.

            You say probably Horthy would have been lynched if he had been Dutch… I say stop digging at my country because our history in WWII is not darker than your country’s and get off the high horse. BTW, I’m not blaming you. I’m backing up what I wrote in the previous sentence.

  • judas

    http://www.forost.ungarisches-institut.de/pdf/19430507-1.pdf

    dear justaking ,leto and friends.

    Have a look at the letter “reichsverweser Horthy” wrote
    to Adolf Hitler in 1943. see Link above.

    It is in german though.

    then you will think again about Horthy

    • Leto. مؤدّب

      What’s your point? Is that something new that Hitler was strongly pressurizing Horthy in order “to solve the J**ish question” and Horthy was dragging his feet? This letter from 1943 might have won a few months’ time, perhaps, but FYI Nazi Hungary still occupied Hungary in the March of 1944.

    • ,justasking,

      @judas,

      ‘Have a look at the letter “reichsverweser Horthy” wrote’

      Why are you concerning yourself with a letter written almost 70 years ago?

      Why aren’t you focusing on the fact, that you happen to be living in a country, who just happens to enjoy the title of ‘longest military occupier in human history’?

      So, when put like that…isn’t there another, more pressing cause, for you to be diving into, with the same passion you’ve dedicated towards trolling through the Internet, look for letters defaming Horthy?

      Go ahead, make a difference…go stop someone else’s suffering that is happening at this very moment. You can always get back to drumming up pity for yourself later.

  • judas

    justasking,

    1) why do you think i gave the link to horthys letter?

    2) Actually why you guys are digging out a questionable
    leader from 70 years ago and start the new “Horthy ” cult.?

    • Leto. مؤدّب

      Why you guys try to carry on with the Communist propaganda traditions which tried to paint Horthy as black as they could? (Among others in order to try to gain legitimacy and in order to provide an enemy image.)
      Horthy must be spoken of in high terms for a number of things and he’s to be blamed for some mistakes. He definitely deserves a few statues and streets.

    • justasking

      @judas,

      ‘why do you think i gave the link to horthys letter?’

      I honestly don’t know what your motive is…and don’t think i want to know. Sorry, I’m just being honest.

      I see him one way, and you obviously another…lets just leave it at that.
      ————

      ‘Actually why you guys are digging out a questionable
      leader from 70 years ago and start the new “Horthy ” cult.?’

      You seem to forget, he’s questionable to YOU, not to me. You want to preserve and promote your history, I have the right to do the same.
      ——–

      But, enough of the past…lets focus and talk about the present shall we??

      How’s project ***P*lestine, peace in the Valley’ coming along? What have YOU done TODAY, to improve the lives of those people, who are being specifically targeted for who they are??

  • Viking

    olga says:
    June 9, 2012 at 3:31 pm

    What are you saying, that it’s acceptable for a lawyer who swore to uphold the law to pour paint over a statue and ketchup over legal documents?
    —

    Even a lawyer has the right to be a private citizen and perform protests

    What is punishable is a hard line top draw, when we come to protests. We have the Socialist Government which in 2007 convicted “two men hung out underwear and other clothing on a string over a temporary metal security barrier erected around the parliament with the slogan “we air the dirty laundry of the Hungarian Nation””

    I think the protester should carry the cost for the repair, but was no one hurt or in danger then there is basically no crime – hence the 407 Ft for a new copy of Fidesz Basic Law – it was not exactly the original that got ‘spiced up’

    But the line between vandalism and protest can sometimes be thin

    What punishment do you think Köver will try to measure out if someone gets into the Parliament and hangs up dirty laundry, copying the 2007-stunt (but against another Government)?
    Take the comparison

  • olga

    @ Viking

    I think this is from a Canadian legal website :

    “Because the destruction of public and private property poses a threat to society, modern statutes make vandalism a crime. The penalties upon conviction may be a fine, a jail sentence, an order to pay for repairs or replacement, or all three.”

    Maybe this is acceptable behaviour in Sweden but it it is not in Canada, Hungary, and the US. Maybe you could lobby to have the laws changed but until they are, vandalism will be a crime . From what you wrote, the underwear scenario did not damage property , therefore it is not vandalism. Maybe public mischief , I am not a lawyer so I wouldn’t know what charges if any would be laid in Canada under the circumstances but I hope none so it would not waste police , lawyers’ and court times

    Moreover, please tell me what purpose Daniel’s action served other than making JOBBIK happy and cause more animosity towards “J**ewish people in Hungary, the very people who actually have to deal with the consequences of this jerk’s decision. Just because he is a minority does not mean he is justified in braking the law – you give Liberals a bad name )

    BTW, you know the rules in JOBBIKland – all Canadians are psychos because of the “Canadian Psycho” and all the J*ews in Hungary are responsible not only for defacing the Horthy statue but the Palestinian conflict as well.

    Get with the programme, stop mixing apples and oranges and listen to your clever Hungarian wife who could have explained all this instead of wasting my time when I am trying to sign up for pie-baking lessons in the American sponsored feminist camp. (I will try to pass myself off as a “girl” who had a very tough life and aged rapidly as a consequence)

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