June 18th, 2012

Ex-president Schmitt challenges university decision in court

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Former President Pal Schmitt has filed a request for remedy against a decision of a fact-finding committee at the Semmelweis University that stripped him of his doctoral title in March, news website index.hu reported on Friday.

Schmitt also filed a request for a review of the case at the Municipal Court, the website said.

Budapest’s Semmelweis University withdrew Schmitt’s doctoral title on March 29, as it had established that the thesis written in 1992 had been in part plagiarised.

Pal Schmitt resigned on April 2.

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  • spectator

    Well, it took quite some time to Mr.Schmitt to find the appropriate documents to copy, obviously.

  • Dr Schmitt Pall

    Dear Spectator, what you say is completely untrue. I have discovered a seek engine called Gookle. This very powerful search robot returned all the concepts, objections and legal remedies I already had in my head. How amazing is that? It just took some time to find someone who could type them out.
    I don’t know if you have heard about a popular French band called Daft Spunk (or is itPunk Kraft?). My grandchildren told me that these very talented musicians wrote a space opera about the injustice brought to me by the communist press. The song is called “Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger” and it tells the story of a man who was brought to his knees by the media and masses, but he fought back and he became a legend applauded by millions of people who all walked in a Peace March to hail his glory.
    Yes, my friend, this is the truth and it’s important that you know what is really gonna happen.
    Kind regards,
    Your pal Pall

    • spectator

      That’s my pal, Pall!
      :-)

  • olga

    @ spectator and Dr Pal

    I am copying the last 3 paragraphs from a long article
    (Hungarian President Pal Schmitt quits over PhD plagiarism scandal Reuters Apr 2, 2012 – 9:32 AM ET )

    “Schmitt, a former Fidesz party vice president, said he would appeal the ruling on the grounds that the university had no jurisdiction in the matter and only a court could revoke his doctorate.

    “The process was unethical and unlawful,” Schmitt told parliament.

    “Naturally, I will appeal this decision and I will seek justice through the courts. For some, this is a political question. To me, it’s a matter of honor.”

    What exactly is wrong with someone trying to clear his name through the proper channels? I am not defending the guy, for all I know he plagiarized 90% of his thesis but that’s irrelevant and please don’t use this incident because you don’t like his politics – like he said, it’s about his honour and he should be given every chance to clear his name.
    _________________________

    Here is an interesting perspective, I copied a Reader’s comment from Canada’s National Post that also carried the story:

    “This is a terrible article, with an atrocious reporting of events. First of all, the degree in question was NOT a Ph.D., but what was referred to in Hungary,
    prior to the regime change, as ‘small’ or ‘little’ doctorate, and it was not considered a ‘scientific’ degree. The requirements for this degree were
    significantly different from that of a Ph.D.

    Also, the article conveniently ‘forgets’ to mention that a committee of academics, put together by Semmelwis University (which absorbed the, what used to be, ‘Sports University’, where Schmitt got his little doctorate) to examine the case of Schmitt. The committee wrote a thousand page report, which states that while both parties bare some responsibility, the primary responsibility lies with the university, which allowed a dissertation to proceed to defence while not containing sufficiently accurate references (the dissertation did list the sources in question in a bibliography, but did not sufficiently indicate the identical or similar texts).

    Considering some of the background information (conveniently ignored by the article), I don’t
    think Schmitt did anything different from what probably many other elite Hungarian athletes would have been allowed to do when they pursued a ‘little-doctorate’ (not a Ph.D.) in those days when in Hungary, and in most other Eastern-bloc countries, national sport was a political priority and a political tool in the ongoing competition with the West. This is well
    illustrated by the fact that the doctoral committee at that time, examining Schmitt’s thesis, did not find anything ‘wrong’ with it, and gave him a very good grade.

    Now, one can take this case, look at it today, and have an anachronistic evaluation of it
    (lacking historical perspective/consciousness); situate it in the current extremely polarized Hungarian political scene, and one has a juicy topic to attack the government with. This is well illustrated also by this very article, with its partisan and politically inflammatory tone. The question should be asked: Should we go back and check the validity of every other title (be it academic or other), whether they satisfy current standards? “

    • spectator

      Thanks for the article, Olga!

      Actually most of the same reasoning I’ve read too, some of them even true.
      But:
      - While “The requirements for this degree were
      significantly different from that of a Ph.D.”, there still was requirement to provide a proper list of sources in case you used some.
      - While Mr.Schmitt may have made everything just the same way as “probably many other elite Hungarian athletes would have been allowed to do when they pursued a ‘little-doctorate’ ” – plagiarism is still wrong. Let alone the little insignificant fact, that so far he is the only “sportsman” having been elected to president.
      (I sincerely hope, he was the last one too of this kind.)
      - While “the primary responsibility lies with the university, which allowed a dissertation to proceed to defense while not containing sufficiently accurate references”, let not us to forget, that at the time it happened Mr.Schmitt had an administrative superior status over the ‘Sports University’ – you may even imagine the willingness to cross with the “chief”…

      - However, the worst part – to me – was, when he tried to explain away, (the “core material”, remember?) and started to lie of his alleged participation in the work of Nikolay Georgiev, and Klaus Heinemann.

      The thesis in question didn’t complied the standards of it’s time either, so I don’t feel, that your last question particularly relevant in its present form.

      The problem turned up with the Hungarian President in charge, caught red handed, then lied in the face of the public and got caught again.

      In this light has absolutely no importance if he has a “doctor” as title or not, believe me.

  • olga

    @ Spectator

    Please don’t get me wrong – plagiarism is cheating and unacceptable, I am not in the habit of defending dishonest people who get caught and whine about the injustice of it all.

    I totally disregarded the long boring explanation about the type of a degree it was because “little doctorate” vs a PhD was not the salient issue, cheating is cheating.

    However, this man wants to clear his name through the courts, so if murderers have that right to get decisions overturned when applicable, why should this man be denied his rights?

    This also caught my eye:

    “Schmitt, a former Fidesz party vice president, said he would appeal the ruling on the grounds that the university had no jurisdiction in the matter and only a court could revoke his doctorate.”

    Is he lying, hallucinating or correct? – A world renowned University revokes a doctorate without knowing its own jurisdiction?

    Moreover, is he had no case to defend the accusations against plagiarism , and it was simply a “who has jurisdiction ” issue, it would be even more humiliating to have a second ruling that he was indeed a cheat.

    You gotta take those “I hate FIDESZ” glasses off and judge this matter on its own merit and btw I would feel the same way if Vona, KM etc were involved instead of Schmitt ; Of course I would pray to have the court uphold the plagiarism decision but that’s totally irrelevant :) )

    • spectator

      “You gotta take those “I hate FIDESZ” glasses off and judge this matter on its own merit”

      - That’s the point, Olga.
      In my eyes the person called Schmitt has no merit as a person, whatever flags is he waving at the moment.
      He is a typical product of his age: a born opportunist with no principles. When I’ve met with him first he was called “Comrade Schmitt” and with a reason – then it was the way to a good income. Time has changed, so Comrade Schmitt’s loyalty, always going for the better pay, whoever they might be. Don’t worry, at the moment some better alternative turns out, he will leave his all Fidesz past behind just as swiftly, and move over.

      I just can’t stand the spineless turncoats, whoever they might be or whatever direction they turning – so simple s this to me, really.

  • Pete

    Viktor Kassai for President. The blind one should lead the blind ones!

  • olga

    @ Spectator

    You are like a dog with a bone (it takes one to know one)

    I understand you are not a Schmitt fan although you must stop being so wishy washy because I had to read your last posting a few times to figure out how you REALLY felt about him.

    So woof woof – If he wants to clear his name as far as plagiarism goes, he has the right to do so regardless of the type of human being he is. There is no rule that only “good people” ought to have the right to defend themselves so let justice take its course because regardless of the final outcome, your overall opinion about his will still remain and so will other people’s who shares your views.

  • olga

    @ spectator

    looks like I am failing English spelling and grammar or at least I should read what I wrote before I submit comments

    • spectator

      D. (as in dear) Olga, English isn’t even my second language, I picked up “on the go”, as it seems obviously.

      What I mean, if you have some issues about language, it probably initiated somewhere in my comment – please, have mercy!

      Back to the subject: I have no intention to deny Mr.Schmitt’s right to justice, but it should be that, justice, nothing but. He should get what he deserves.

      You see, the whole affair feels rather tacky, to say the least. Just think of it: how in Earth he has gotten in politics in the first place? Does anybody has any viable explanation, just how and why Comrade Schmitt became the President of Hungary with no adequate merits whatsoever?

      When I knew him he was a “comrade” and a womanizer as such, living by the communist standard of “high society” and enjoyed it to the hilt. Recently he was the family guy with the high moral and family values…
      Go figure the reason of my opinion ;-)

      /Have a nice one, btw.!

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