June 20th, 2012

Hungary prepares for mass return of Roma from Canada

Hungary is making preparations for the mass return of Hungarian Roma asylum-seekers from Canada, the Human Resources Minister told Wednesday’s Eszak Magyarorszag regional daily.

Canada recently changed the law with the outcome that Hungarian asylum-seekers will sent back in an expedited procedure. The law is expected to take effect later this month.

Zoltan Balog said the immigration law recently amended by Canada would take some time to implement, so it was unlikely there would be a sudden influx of Roma back to Hungary, and that there would be enough time to prepare for their arrival.

The Human Resources Ministry said earlier in a statement that many Hungarian nationals who had immigrated to Canada had been motivated by the prospect of financial benefits offered under Canada’s immigration law.

Balog told the paper that anyone who had misled Roma about their prospects in Canada before dumping them there would be held to account.

“Unless we do so, we will continue to face a situation where certain people motivated by financial gain create a problem and the task to tackle them will be left for the state. This practice must stop,” Balog told the paper.

Imre Helyes, counsellor at the Hungarian embassy in Ottawa, told MTI earlier that around 4,500 Hungarians had applied for refugee status in the country in 2011, and 700 did so in the first three months this year.

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  • Dan

    Good riddance! I do feel empathy for Hungarians who’ll have to deal with the influx, though. Please take note of all their new sneakers and clothes. That’s thanks to Canadian taxpayers’ money!

  • Géza

    prepare for their arrival?????!!!
    They (gypsies) made the choice to go to Canada with false intentions!
    They wanted to scam the Canadians, so now the hungarian taxpayer have to pay for the failed project of these scammers?
    Just let them come back and solve their own problems. If they commit a crime by doing so, they end up in jail or better to workcamps, very simple! No political correctness!

  • Gandi

    Maybe India will take them in? After all, that is their ancestral homeland..

  • justasking

    When a country, such as Canada, one, who embraces immigration, sends people back for false/misrepresentation…what does this say about the accusations/claims made against Hungary?

    Now, the Canadian taxpayer, can foot the bill to process all these people (all the manpower that will be required) house them, water and feed them, AND buy them all plane tickets back.

    Well done Europe.

    When do you plan on pulling together, like a REAL Union, and dealing with uncomfortable issues that effect you all equally? Or, is that your answer…try and shove the problem onto another country, on another continent, hoping, that we won’t notice?

    • Barney

      I think your question is for Hungary, not the EU.

      • justasking

        @Barney,

        ‘I think your question is for Hungary, not the EU’

        Really?

        Than why didn’t these individuals run to France, Germany, Slovakia, Italy or Spain, if this was in-fact an issue exclusive only to Hungary?

        • Anonymous

          The eu does not accept refugees from eu countries, there are many ligitimate refugees and they do need help this hatred toward roma people is disgusting and is continually fueled by this stereotyping of them. Why is no one discussing this fascist governments role in this? Wake up people! Take a bigger look at the politics all over europe neo nazis have been influencing these countries in very big ways. Even just the comment of “preparing for their return”, and stating that they will be held accountable, doesn’t alarm anyone? Or do we just live in the kind of world now where we just feel entitled and all minorities can go to hell?

          • justasking

            @Anon,

            ‘The eu does not accept refugees from eu countries’

            But if that is what their claim is…why aren’t all the other EU countries stepping up and welcoming these ‘claimants’ them from a supposed fate worse than death?

            Where are all these ‘EU values’ that keeps on getting spewed across this site? Where are your ‘values’, regarding taking care of you own?
            ———
            ‘Or do we just live in the kind of world now where we just feel entitled and all minorities can go to hell?’

            Which ‘worldwide’ minorities are you talking about here? All…or just some?

            You do realize, that different countries ‘worldwide’, have different minorities?

          • Anonymous

            Here in canada as well as all around the world people are taking their stance from pure speculation anout the roma people. Yes there are some that are bad but many just want to live in peace mot having to worry about the safety of their family. When the general hatred is spread others take on the same opinion. Our government is doing this as well. They know of some bogus refugees, so now they are assuming all are! What bothers me is when we have people living comfortably here in canada, many whose parents or grandparents came here and received their fair share of assistance, in a time when benefits where much more generous than they are now, have the nerve to bring their hatefull attitudes to make things more difficult for someone else now that they are canadians.

  • Viking

    Gandi says:
    June 20, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    Maybe India will take them in? After all, that is their ancestral homeland..

    At least they have an “ancestral homeland”
    A bit more than what can be said about the ‘Magyars’, who ran out of Central Asia and Caucasus with their tails between their legs and did not stop until they reached Danube…

  • olga

    @ Viking

    Please clarify – what’s the difference between you and Gandi ?

    What this website needs is another racist so perhaps you just decided to pick up the slack which of course is very Christian of you. Eye for an eye, etc.

  • én

    wouaw, so Géza wants work camps! and Gandi want to send the Roma back to their place of origin! interesting, tell me Gandi, where do the Magyar come from? what happened to the avarok? basically if I don’t like you because you’re stupid and géza is a fascist, can we send you back in the middle of nowhere??? you still have cousins there:-)
    I just love this viking man:-) Olga you don’t get it, he was just showing how stupid Gandi’s comment is, don’t try and be even more stupid than Gandi and his friends, please!
    Not mentioning that most of those géza’s, gandi’s, leto’s and so on have probably grand parents or great grand parents that arrived in Hungary less than a century ago!

  • ˇOn the contrary, the factsˇ

    We should recycle them into tires. Few additives, compression and they will be useful for Hungarian economy.

  • Gandi

    To all the anti-Hungarians,

    Magyars established Hungary, this is our country. Every nationality or culture in Europe came from somewhere i.e. Germans, Slavs, French, Anglo-Saxon. Yes, the Hungarians too. The gypsies are a wandering band of people who originated from North-West India (Rajasthan) and traveled throughout the Middle East and then to Europe. The arrived in most European countries in the Middle Ages. Many European kingdoms allowed them to settle (Why?). They seemed to congregate mostly in Eastern and Central Europe.

    Why I am being called a racist for suggesting that India take them back, I don’t know. Gypsy culture is non-European, they often marry their young daughters at 14 years of age, if not younger. Their cultures is very similar to Indian and Middle Eastern. They never bothered to fully assimilate into Hungarian culture and lived on the fringes of Hungarian society by their own will. Look at the international Romani flag and you see a wheel on it. This wheel is the same wheel on the flag of India. Sorry but I guess the truth hurts, but it’s the truth.

    Read more at Wikipedia, type “Romani people” and you will see.

    • justasking

      @Gandi,

      ‘Why I am being called a racist for suggesting that India take them back’

      Because, you accept that ‘Every nationality or culture in Europe came from somewhere’ yet insist that this group of people be ‘returned’ to their ‘original’ home….regardless that ‘They arrived in most European countries in the Middle Ages’.

      Suggesting, that somehow ‘European’ culture is somehow superior to the Romni one. That makes you, by definition, a textbook racist.
      ——

      ‘they often marry their young daughters at 14 years of age, if not younger. Their cultures is very similar to Indian and Middle Eastern’

      Okay, you have a valid concern here as far as I’m concerned. I too, have an issue, with how they view (subservient)and what roles they place their women in, as well as the age when all this starts.

      This is something they’ll have to figure out for themselves as far as I’m concerned. If everything is above board, children are placed in school and left there until there are legally allowed to leave, children are wed at an age acceptable by the country in-which they are living in and not before…nothing else really can be done.

      The way to try and break this ‘custom’ will be through education in the schools and maybe in ‘special’ town-hall gatherings, specifically targeting this communities women…in my opinion.
      ———–

      ‘They never bothered to fully assimilate into Hungarian culture and lived on the fringes of Hungarian society by their own will’

      So, how do we get them to WANT to embrace integration? The main concern being, their culture disappearing/watered down within the ‘majority’…which, is valid.

      I do believe though, if people expect and receive assistance from a country, it is non negotiable that integration will take place.
      ——

      ‘Look at the international Romani flag and you see a wheel on it. This wheel is the same wheel on the flag of India’

      So?

      • Géza

        “Géza is a fascist”

        calling some-one a facsist is a empty phrase used by political correct people to silence any opposition against their views.

        Why workcamps? I was mentioning criminals, who after they came back from Canada (after abusing the system there)wouldn’t start working, but instead continue a life of crime to make ends meet, should be forced to work for their money. Why should the hungarian taxpayer pay for these kind of people? Nothing facsist about this.

        “Not mentioning that most of those géza’s, gandi’s, leto’s and so on have probably grand parents or great grand parents that arrived in Hungary less than a century ago!”

        Stay to the facts, no assumptions about people you don’t even know and just want to insult. It only shows who you are!

        “The way to try and break this ‘custom’ will be through education in the schools and maybe in ‘special’ town-hall gatherings, specifically targeting this communities women…in my opinion.”

        why is your way of living suddenly superior to theirs? Isn’t that etnocentric / racsists? Don’t be a hypocrite.

        Everything you wrote shows your view of being superior to people with other views then yours, like most indoctrinated, political correct people are.

        One day you wake up and realize that multi-culturalism doesn’t work. It never did through history, only when it was implemented by force for some time.

        Then you will understand what Ghandi wrote, it is just better for people to life among others who share the same culture as they do.

        Most gypsies are just another example that a large alien etnic and cultural group never assimilate or intergrate in the host culture.

        • justasking

          @Géza,

          Was this post directed to me?? If it was, your way off.

          • Géza

            @justasking no, not at all, it was directed to @”én” I don’t know what happened, but I am soory anyway!

      • ˇOn the contrary, the factsˇ

        Suggesting, that somehow ‘European’ culture is somehow superior to the Romni one. That makes you, by definition, a textbook racist.

        So you connect European culture to white skin?

        Fuk u raysis shit!

        • Leto. مؤدّب

          Stating that one particular culture is somehow superior to another one certainly doesn’t make one by definition a textbook racist. Stating that one particular race is superior to another one does, by definition.

        • justasking

          @on the contrary,

          ‘So you connect European culture to white skin?’

          You do realize, that YOU’RE the only one who’s tried to make this connection…nobody else? So, what do you have to say for yourself you racist pig?

          • ˇOn the contrary, the factsˇ

            Premise #1 Suggesting, that somehow ‘European’ culture is somehow superior to the Romni one. That makes you, by definition, a textbook racist. Source: justasking (June 21, 2012 at 7:09 am)

            Premise #2 Racism is the belief that different characteristics in racial groups justify discrimination. Soure: Wikipedia

            If racism is based on race, and suggesting that European culture is superior to Romani culture is racism, then European culture and white skin is equal.

          • justasking

            @on the contrary,

            ‘If racism is based on race, and suggesting that European culture is superior to Romani culture is racism, then European culture and white skin is equal’

            You were doing good up until that last part of your sentence. I repeat, you pointed out the ‘white’ in European culture…assuming, that all Europeans come from ‘white’ stock as opposed to the ‘majority’ of them maybe being white.

          • ˇOn the contrary, the factsˇ

            So your point is that Europeans who formed European culture were not entirely white? I can’t see anything what ws added to it by coloured people.

          • Curious George

            I can’t see anything what ws[sic] added to it by coloured people.
            The first book I did in Literature in the 8th grade was The Count of Monte Cristo by Dumas.

          • ˇOn the contrary, the factsˇ

            You misspelled ‘Romani’ at June 22, 2012 at 5:10 pm. Getting boners from typos is really childish.
            Really? A 3/4 white novelist? How did he affect European culture?
            (By the way, you could say Pushkin too…)

          • Curious George

            @Contrary Facts – I misspelled Romani? Really?? If you could show me, I’ll correct it before addressing the rest of your post.

          • ˇOn the contrary, the factsˇ

            Sorry, I’m tired and I thought I answer the same person (justasking). Sorry.

            On a second thought i want to correct my question. What Colored influence did Dumas (and Pushkin) bring into European culture?

          • Curious George

            @Contrarian facts – I agree 100% with you that Gandi and Geza are racist shit. I’m glad you mentioned that Dumas is 3/4 white, and by implication the remaining 25% is his ‘coloredness’. Being able to define variables and measure things clearly is very important in life, as choosing the wrong variable just screws things up. Just to clarify in case you thought I was JA, I am a 100% non-white, non-European, from a non-western hemisphere country. I know it’s not important, but I thought I’d just let you know just in case you think it might be relevant. Also, I’ve met JA, and I’d be very surprised if ever she got a boner, whether correcting your spelling, or at any other time.

            So, maybe you could explain, what variable you would use to measure the influence of something/someone on a culture? Once we agree on this variable, I’ll try to answer your question. Otherwise, I could be talking about apples, and you could be talking about arses.

        • justasking

          @Leto,

          ‘Stating that one particular culture…’

          Oh puhleeze! I’m not one for ‘reading between the lines’ and arriving at ‘my own’ conclusions like some around here…BUT, when somebody suggests, that a person/group of people ‘go back to where they came from’ after arriving here in the middle ages??

          Come on Leto, even you can’t say that passes the smell test.

          • Leto. مؤدّب

            @justasking:

            Even me? What do you mean?
            I wrote that stating one culture is superior to another one is no racism. (see post June 22, 2012 at 2:27 pm)

            I definitely didn’t comment on that suggestion (which does smell of racism, of course)

          • justasking

            @Leto,

            Okay, we’re splitting hairs here, but I see your point.

  • olga

    @ en

    re: “Olga you don’t get it, he was just showing how stupid Gandi’s comment is, don’t try and be even more stupid than Gandi and his friends, please!”

    Except when it comes to sports, I do have a competitive personality but since you asked me so nicely not to compete when it comes to stupidity ,I shall oblige.

    If two JOBBIK crackpots say something incredibly dumb, why do you think ” tit for tat ” is applicable at a whole nations’ expense from someone who is anything but a crackpot, simply suffering from occasional Extreme Leftness (new term I just made up)

    When the E.L. disease flares up, which seemed to be the case this time, he is prone to defending a pedophile, (Cohn-Bendit) and a vandal (Peter Daniel) just to name a couple of weirdos who came to my mind

    FYI, I met Viking twice and I think he is a great guy; and btw, I would not include Leto in the “Geza/Gandi” crowd.

    • Géza

      ‘I would not include Leto in the “Geza/Gandi” crowd.”

      Dear Olga, you never met me in person or had a real duscussion with me about my views on many subjects, so please don’t label me as “én” did. Because you don’t use the F word, but that is what you are implying right?

      Also for you, don’t be so political correct!

  • Gandi

    Olga,

    What crowd is that? Are you generalizing? Cheers…

  • procastinator

    @ Gandi
    “They never bothered to fully assimilate into Hungarian culture and lived on the fringes of Hungarian society by their own will”

    yeah mean like Hungarians living say in Sweden or Germany , were they have their Hungarian community with their little ceremonies and cant speak the language after 30 years and don’t assimilate , shall we send those home to ?

    • Géza

      yes you Germans and Swedes should and I am serious!

      But it will never happen because of political correctness and the multi culti dream of your masters! Who even said it would be very good if the Swedes would become a minority in their own country!

      Good luck!

      • Curious George

        Why should they come to Hungary just because think they should? Maybe they left because they don’t like people like you? I’m sure some would come back if your sort left Hungary :) I’m not sure where you would go…..perhaps your ancestral land in the Urals.

        • Leto. مؤدّب

          Feel free to go back to the jungle, monkey.

          • Curious George

            I am familiar with jungles, cousin Leto – I use to train in them. Let me tell, this is a jungle, ever since 2010 – One lion roaring \I am the king\, everyone else scared of him, and lots of trees to hide behind, and too much foliage for the animals to see what’s really happening in the big picture.
            Hey, maybe JA can be your sponsor. :) Hungary loses 1 leto, and gets in return, 2 Spectators. Population problem solved.

          • Leto. مؤدّب

            Why should JA be my sponsor? First I don’t need one, second I’d never ever go to such a remote and cold place like Canada… I hear it’s 15 C and rainy in the UK where I lived till last year. This sunny and hot (well, now too hot ) weather in Hungary suits me better. :)

          • justasking

            @Leto and George,

            ‘second I’d never ever go to such a remote and cold place like Canada’

            Remote…really? I guess that would depend…oh, shit…I gotta go…I just spotted a polar bear in my back yard!!!!
            ——-

            George, you and your wife will always be welcome in our home, there is plenty of space, my husband had a deluxe Igloo built for us. For fun on a Friday night, we’ll take you baby seal hunting.

            Although you might wanna rethink wearing a grass skirt out in the tundra.

          • Curious George

            @Leto – Of course, you would need JA as a sponsor. I can’t think of anyone else who would vouch for you as a person of good character (a necessary pre-requisite to move to Canada). Actually, after what you said, I don’t know if JA would still be willing to lie for you.
            @JA – thank you for your kind offer. Mrs George & I would be delighted to visit just as soon as global warming melts all that snow. I’m a little apprehensive about baby seal hunting. I heard these little white devils (no racist pun intended) can be quite dangerous and often ferocious when you pull their whiskers. Would we have to bring our own spears, or will you take care of that too?

          • Leto. مؤدّب

            @CG:

            Concerning Canada, maybe have another go at my previous post. Besides the distance from Hungary and the climate, maybe that’s because I’m not a persecuted Gypsy who seeks asylum after successfully fleeing from that Gypsy Orbán’s brutal fascist dictatorship. :D
            And I don’t need any sponsor to, say, go back to the UK if I wanted to. (All I would have to do is to give the go-ahead for an eager headhunter.)

            Now please tell me what you would need to go to that jungle from Hungary.

          • justasking

            @George,

            ‘I can’t think of anyone else who would vouch for you as a person of good character’

            Oh, Georgie…if you only knew how generous Leto was to both Olga and I that Friday when we met for coffee! Why, all those complimentary orange t-shirts, bumper stickers and signed 8X10′s…I would be honored to vouch for him!!!
            ———

            ‘ Mrs George & I would be delighted to visit just as soon as global warming melts all that snow’

            Oh, but that would take FOREVER!!!!!! Besides, we need a good thick layer of ice to safely walk/ride across on our skidoos.
            ———

            ‘I’m a little apprehensive about baby seal hunting…can be quite dangerous and often ferocious when you pull their whiskers’

            No, no, no…you sneak up behind them and bash their little heads in!!! No spears required, any blunt object will do! No need to touch them directly at all…accept mind you, to throw them into a pile to yard back to gut and skin.

            You know…don’t worry about it…we’ll bring my 7 year old daughter along to do it…she’s getting quite good at it.

            Now, there might be a wee bit of blood splatter; but, nothing to worry your little head over…I tend to buy stain remover by the case load from Costco! Handled!
            ———-

            Just need some confirmation here…are either of you vegetarians? Because, eating raw baby seal blubber is a delicacy up here, and most insulting to the hosts if refused.
            ———-

            @Leto,

            ‘Besides the distance from Hungary and the climate’

            Christ, thats what planes are for!!! Yes, it can get bloody cold for short periods of time during the winter months( more so in Northern Canada, the territories etc) but who cares, you layer up.
            —–

            ‘And I don’t need any sponsor’

            Oh, lighten up!!! We’re just joking around here…besides, if you ever wanted to see Canada, hidd el, szívesen elfogadlak.

          • Leto. مؤدّب

            @justasking:

            “all those complimentary orange t-shirts, bumper stickers and signed 8X10′s”

            I hope your car looks fine now, your dressing habits are proper now, your Fidesz-shrine is set up adequately and most importantly you’ve been doing your five-a-day there since then…

          • Curious George

            All I would have to do is to give the go-ahead for an eager headhunter.
            @Leto – If it’s weather you want, the weather in our part of the world is much warmer than the UK, and we too have our own head-hunters. Better still, these head-hunters wont be too concerned about you not being able to get any good character references, or you being a Fidesz yob. Just a dash of pepper & salt, some spices in the cooking pot, and they’ll be able to solve any of your shortcomings.
            Now please tell me what you would need to go to that jungle from Hungary
            That’s easy. Just type out 3x that you love Romanians & Slovaks, and that you think orange is the new red.

            @JA – bash their little heads in!! WTF??? Is this the extent of Canadian civilization? Jeez, even us chimps have learned how to fashion little spearheads and other simple hunting implements.
            Vegetarians? No, no, we’re not pandas. Although we eat mainly greens, and fruits, we do like a good antelope steak once in a while? Raw blubber sounds delicious but I think it’s also high time I also introduced you to flint, and the hot, dancing, red light. I know a quarry here where the headman is the father of the Orange king. I’ll see if he can cough up a couple of stones for me to bring to a long lost kinsmen(woman) in Canada, especially one who’s plastered her car in orange stickers. Don’t worry about the stain removers. We usually dress down when we go hunting, so there’ll be nothing stain. :)

          • Leto. مؤدّب

            @CG:

            I also wrote that I don’t fancy too warm weather… No, I don’t want head-hunters (they want me) and I’m not surprised head-hunters in your country want people with a dash of pepper & salt, plus some spices in the cooking pot. I fully understand you’re surprised this is not the way head-hunters want people in the UK or in Hungary though.

            My best effort to sending you to that jungle:
            I love decent Rumanians & Slovaks* and I think orange grows on trees.
            I love decent Rumanians & Slovaks* and I think orange grows on trees.
            I love decent Rumanians & Slovaks* and I think orange grows on trees.

            *and this also shows my appreciation towards endangered minorities

          • justasking

            @George,

            Oh my God!! That had to be one of the funniest posts I’ve read on this site in a longtime. You had me in stitches…’a little salt and pepper’ brilliant!
            —–

            ‘WTF??? Is this the extent of Canadian civilization?’

            Actually, seal-hunting is still legal in Canada. A time honored tradition of our Inuit and other aboriginal peoples (something like 4000 years old)…and yes, I do support this industry.

  • Peter J.

    Dear Procrastinator,

    Do you have any understanding of assimilation at all?

    Particularly, that of political migrants (those in Germany or Sweden)?

    Are you sayng that you would expect the same level of assimilation in 1 generation (30 years) as one would expect over 10 generations?

    • Leto. مؤدّب

      Hm, sorry, a minor correction: Most “magyar cigány” (ungarom) arrived in Hungary in the 15th century. That’s something like 600 years, that is more like 20 generations ago.

  • Gandi

    @justasking

    “Suggesting, that somehow ‘European’ culture is somehow superior to the Romni one. That makes you, by definition, a textbook racist.”

    Did I even say or suggest that they were inferior? All I said was that they were vastly different and a non-European people and culture. Once again leftist assumptions. Perfect textbook example that if you don’t agree with the left, you are a racist.

  • justasking

    @Gandi,

    ‘Did I even say or suggest that they were inferior?’

    Yeah you did, when you said that THEY should not be able to ‘stay’ and ‘should go back’ even after being in Europe for up-teen years.

    Look, if you want to talk about some hardcore issues that are associated with some in this community, lets do it. To simply suggest that ‘somebody go back’, insinuating that they are somehow not welcome…that’s not right.
    ——–

    ‘All I said was that they were vastly different and a non-European people and culture’

    Yeah, neither was Attila the Hun…didn’t stop us.
    ——–

    ‘Once again leftist assumptions’

    Oh stop getting hysterical and act like an adult.

    You make some valid points, and have some valid concerns as far as I’m can see. Unfortunately, you lump them all together, as if one has to do with the other.

    You forget, that ‘we’ are just as much to blame as ‘them’. They have been enabled, saw an opportunity and exploited it. Simple as that.
    ——–

    True story if you want to hear it…my step father is from Zala County, born in 1928. He said he remembers there being a fairly large Roma community, who lived on the outskirts of his home town.

    Members of this community, would come into town, and everybody would buy and sell produce, meat, whatever each had that the other wanted. This community worked their own farms, tended to their animals etc. When they needed help, short on cash, whatever, they’d go into town, ask for help and get it if people had it to give…nothing was ever stolen, there was no animosity towards each other, nothing.

    If you look at the impact that ‘their’ music had on ‘ours’, confirms that this community, HAD integrated into Hungarian society…this kind of influence on each other, could not have happened otherwise.

    What needs to be addressed and studied…is where did all this start to break down, why and how can it all be turned around.

  • Leto. مؤدّب

    A thought on superiority of cultures over other cultures:
    Cultures are very complex things and they have many facets. Let’s assume we manage somehow to rank along one particular facet (like “community coherence and internal conflict management” or “appreciating individual achievements”, etc.), and this is rather difficult in itself, but one still faces the similarly difficult (or possibly unsolvable!) problem of mapping these rankings into a single ranking.
    So generally speaking one could state superiority only in very obvious cases, e.g. the ancient Greek culture of Athens vs. cannibalism-practising savage tribes in New Guinea (hopefully that’s a neutral enough example in this topic)
    This doesn’t mean, of course, that the ancient Greeks were racially superior to those tribesmen in the jungle.

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