July 4th, 2012

Orbán asks US Congress to help stop “anti-Semitic provocations in Hungary supported from the United States”

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Prime Minister Viktor Orban has asked members of the US Congress to “assist in terminating the anti-Semitic provocations in Hungary supported from the United States” in a letter released to MTI on Tuesday.

In his letter, addressed to Congressman Joseph Crowley, Orban said the political community he belongs to and him personally have been the targets of attacks by extremist forces that call them “Jewish lackeys”.

The prime minister said a news portal was a focal point of Hungarian anti-Semitism, which, to avoid legal consequences, “fled to the United States and has been conducting its disgraceful activities from there”.

“If this problem were to be resolved, then the Hungarian forces of anti-Semitism would be severely weakened,” the letter said.

The prime minister added that he had turned to the Congress for assistance “after the rejection of our requests by the United States Government”.

On June 21, fifty members of the Congress wrote a letter to Orban calling on the Hungarian government to fight anti-Semitism and all extreme expressions. Signatories to the letter voiced concern over racist and homophobic manifestations by Hungary’s radical nationalist Jobbik party.

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  • Elsbeth

    Crowley is an Irish-American, representing the 7th District in New York State (parts of Manhattan and Long Island). Hard to know how Orban chose him to get rid of the web-site. I believe under our freedom of speech act, pretty much anything is possible to say. Orban could set up a pro-Jewish website to counter the bad publicity.

    • Leto. مؤدّب

      WTF… why should Orbánset up a “pro-J*wish” website? :D :D :D
      Let those set up (yet another) one who have the money for this. Say those US Congress members who pass their time by writing letters to Orbán (which Orbán responded to)

  • Pete H.

    Wonderful irony!

    Lot’s of complaints here by Fidesz supporters that the US shouldn’t comment about antisemitism in Hungary and here we have Orban asking the US congress to help shut down Kuruc.hu. This extremist right-wing site is served by a US web host, the last I read it was GoDaddy.

  • olga

    @ Pete H

    I don’t understand anything about computers but just from reading the article, it appears that a US web host needs to be shut down from the US – so what exactly is the problem with Orban asking for help?

    A number of years ago Paul Gillespie of the Toronto Police asked Bill Gates’ help hin curbing child porn on the Internet and as a result hundreds of
    child porn websites were closed down for sure and I believe a number of arrests were made as well.

    I don’t recall Gates giving report cards out countries about these websites but he stepped up to the plate when asked to help. “Asked” would be the operative word

    Where exactly is the irony?

    • Leto. مؤدّب

      “a US web host needs to be shut down from the US ”

      Certainly. However this wouldn’t serve US interests, so “freedom of speech” applies.

      • Pete H.

        It is not a matter of US interests, its a matter of US law.

        And while Orban is doing the right thing by pointing out that this site is antisemitic and he wishes something could be done about. Another issue has been his parties tolerance of hate speech by Jobbik and fact that Jobbik so freely engages in antisemitic speech in parliament.

        And now some Canadian Hungarians have chimed in and they are not letting Orban off the hook.

        Canadian Hungarian Democratic Charter:

        “While we welcome the efforts of a significant group of American Congressmen and women to call a halt to the revival and glorification of Hungary’s Nazi past, we are disappointed that this protest addressed by members of the US Congress to Hungary’s Prime Minister totally neglects Mr Orbán’s personal and governmental responsibility for these shameful developments. Those democrats and members of various ethnic minorities, especially the Roma and Hungary’s Jewish community, who are increasingly alarmed by the undemocratic conduct of the Orbán government, will be severely disappointed when they read this congressional letter. If the gentlemen of the Congress have a problem with one of Hungary’s extremist political parties – Jobbik – they should address their concerns to Jobbik’s leader, whose name is Gábor Vona. If someone doesn’t like what’s happening under the watch of a Democratic President in the USA, why call to task the Republican hopeful? This makes no sense and demonstrates a profound political shortsightedness.”

        • Leto. مؤدّب

          “Undemocratic conduct of the Orbán government, Mr Orbán’s personal and governmental responsibility, Orbán tolerates hate speech”, etc.

          ROTFLMAO :D :D :D

          You believe in word magic, don’t you? You pathetic scum.

          • Pete H.

            The editors of Kuruc.hu work in Budapest. The editor-in-chief is likely a member of parliament. Why doesn’t OV deal with them directly? There are Hungarian laws that could put them out of business immediately? I thought he was a big strong leader? Why is he acting so weak and relying on the US for help? Is it just his ploy to divert attention form any substantial action by his government?

    • Pete H.

      I never said there was a problem. I already explained what the irony was.

  • Robin

    So let’s see this clearly. Orban only asked for the us to shUt down the site after congress wrote to him. How long has the site been hosted in the us?

  • Farkas László

    Of course, Orbán can write letters to US congressmembers, and with his standing as head of state and PM, he can certainly publicise the issue if he wants. What he can’t do is get these congresspeople to shut down a US hosted website! That is rather hard for the authorities to do in the states, as their Supreme Court has had a lot of say so and leverage in these free speech matters. Unless the web-portal can be shown to have been directly involved in criminal activity or fraud, it is almost impossible to get it shut down, merely for opinion and content alone.

    Orbán seems to want to extend the Hungarian media law in order to get a website shut down abroad, but in this instance, it would have to be a no-go. Even if all the congresspeople he has contacted agree with him!

    • Pete H.

      As I stated above, OV’s government could go after the editors who work from Budapest and whose activities violate Hungarian law.

      OV certainly knows the US can not shut down websites. Such an action is prohibited by the 1st amendment to the US Constitution.

      He probably wrote this letter to distract from his government’s lack of real action on the matter.

      • Leto. مؤدّب

        “Such an action is prohibited by the 1st amendment to the US Constitution.”

        Oh, well, then Hungary should point fingers at “freedom of speech”, too. Case closed.

        • Pete H.

          How is the case closed if Orban asked for help taking this site down and at the same time he does not take action within HUngary? Case may be closed in your little head, but not in the real world.

          • Leto. مؤدّب

            The case is closed by Hungary’s pointing out that this is a question of “freedom of speech” in fact. Exactly like the US, the epitome of democracy and human liberties, does in your real world.

            Glad I could help you.

        • i_dont_think_so

          The US has a very strong free speech amendment, which allows pretty much anyone to engage in any kind of political speech. This makes it hard for the US to clamp down on extremist, anti-semitic websites like this.

          What about Hungary? Under the Hungarian Constitution and media laws, Orban can quite easily clamp down on extremist, anti-semitic speech in Hungary, as the US Congressmen were asking him to. He doesn’t seem to be particularly eager to do so – but he can’t use 1st-amendment-level guarantees of all speech as excuse, because Hungary doesn’t have them.

          Of course, should Fidesz want to pass a free speech amendment to the Hungarian Constitution which is as strong as the US’s, it can certainly do so. It has the two-thirds majority for it. And then they can legitimately say they can’t do a thing.

          Of course, they have shown no interest whatsoever in such strong free speech guarantees…

    • justasking

      Good to see you back Laci!

    • Leto. مؤدّب

      @FL:

      Orbán’s answer was just as serious as the letter he responded to. :D

  • Leto. مؤدّب

    Here is Prime Minister Orbán’s letter:

    -http://orbanviktor.hu/attachment/0017/16467_crowley_joseph_50dresp_2012.07.03.pdf

    • Pete H.

      Regarding Orban’s letter
      -http://nepszava.com/2012/07/velemeny/laszlo-bartus-a-couple-of-slaps-in-the-face-of-us.html

  • Marta
    • Leto. مؤدّب

      So the website is put behind a neat cloud which provides protection against attackers and also accelerates access. Vow, this CloudFlare looks interesting.

    • Pete H.

      Other host servers who have hosted Kuruc.hu had no idea of the content they were serving. Typically they have been US web hosts whose personal do not speak Hungarian. Probably the case with Cloudshare the host of Kuruc.

      Cloudfare Terms of use Section 11, Item 1. Prohibited Uses

      “upload, post, transmit, or otherwise make available any content that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, tortious, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, invasive of another’s privacy, hateful, or racially, ethnically, or otherwise objectionable;”

      Cloudfare
      +1 (650) 319-8930
      665 3rd St. #207
      San Francisco, CA 94107
      USA

      Some of you might politely let them know they are hosting an antisemitic, racist, and homophobic site.

      • Pete H.

        Correction it is Kuruc.info. It used to be Kuruc,hu, but that site was hosted by a HUngarian Web host and URL now leads to a blank page.

      • Pete H.

        If you contact Cloudfare you can point them to this link of a Hungarian NGO that tracks Hungarian hate groups.

        -http://athenainstitute.eu/en/map/olvas/26

        This is from their database of hate groups.

  • General Specific

    I find lots of websites offensive, but respect their right
    to exist. I can choose not to visit them, and I have the
    right to create my own offensive website.

    Orban seems to find the time to go out of his way, and
    make a fool of himself, just to please his favorite
    minority group. Like they need it. They are getting more
    protection than they deserve.
    The PM should put some effort into making good on his
    campaign promises. How’s that “million new jobs” are coming, Mr. Orban?

    • Leto. مؤدّب

      “I can choose not to visit them”

      The same with me.

      “Orban seems to find the time to go out of his way”

      Orbán found the time only because he had to respond to a letter sent to him by some US congress members. Read the article.

      • General Specific

        “Orbán found the time only because he had to respond to a letter sent to him by some US congress members. Read the article.”

        I read the article. Orban didn’t “have to respond”. He
        chose not to simply ignore the highly offensive letter,
        or just send a shorter response, something like “mind
        your own (f word goes here) business.”

        “fifty members of the Congress wrote a letter” (45 of them are Jews).

        I have nothing against decent individuals of Jewish origin. It’s not a choice. Joining arrogant ethnic
        groups is a decision, and everyone has the right to disagree
        with them.

        • Leto. مؤدّب

          My personal opinion is that he was right in this particular case not to ignore that letter (or send that short response which would be the right answer in a more ideal world indeed). Case closed, let’s move on. :)

  • spectator

    As I remember, the initial question to Mr.Orban was that why he isn’t distance himself, his government and condemn the increasing antisemitism and acting upon to stop it.

    I mean: he, himself and the Hungarian Government.

    Just how appropriate this answer could be?

  • Marta

    I just did file the report, before we started to talk about this, the repoert has been filed with Godaddy and CloudFlare
    This is about content violation, Not about anything else,since I am not political.
    The Truth has no agenda, only people do, here is my letter, please circulate this

    I would like to make a claim, about a domain registered under kuruc.info which is a highly dangerous hate site.
    Please do not take my word for it:

    http://athenainstitute.eu/en/hate_groups/ in the middle of the page you can find them, as listed.

    click on their link:

    http://athenainstitute.eu/en/map/olvas/26#read

    please watch their description from another angle:

    http://youtu.be/3Z5_vq337dM,

    http://www.whoishostingthis.com/kuruc.info

    CloudfFare is hosting this site

    CloudFlare reserves the right to, under its sole discretion, refuse service, suspend or terminate accounts, or otherwise restrict access to CloudFlare.com and the CloudFlare Service.

    We demand this and all kuruc. related domain to shut down, immediately

    you can use google to translate the content of the site or find someone who is an American, but has a Hungarian origin in your network who can verify the content. Hungarians are known high tech people here in the USA, so I\ am almost sure you will have one in your team supposedly

    • Pete H.

      Cloudfare is actually just a proxy server, not the host. I spoke with them this morning. But, if they determine that the site violates their terms of use, they will send the real IP to people who have complained.

  • Marta

    I already have some information. They have a form, that you have to fill out in order to file a claim, I also sent this to their law department, which they did not really liked, but I got the information there, too, landed at their law department.

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